By | June 9, 2011 116 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I got out before any damage could be done

Lovefraud received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call “Lorna.”

I thought I’d write and tell you a success story, thanks to all the information you provide to help people to survive a sociopath.

I’ve met them at various times in my life, however, I was lucky that I never married or got pregnant or lived with one. A couple of years ago, one crossed my path, and in a short time caused a lot of disruption before I dumped him. I pretty much forgot all about the narcissistic sociopath since then.

I wanted to watch the Will and Kate wedding live, but didn’t have TV, and on the West Coast it would be shown at 3 a.m. I posted on the activities partners section of Craigslist hoping someone was planning on being up to watch, and might let me come join them. I was surprised to get an email from a man, with whom I exchanged emails and phone calls before I felt comfortable going to his place to watch the wedding.

I made chocolate covered strawberries and brought a bottle of champagne, and he had some too, so we laughed and had a wonderful time staying up til dawn watching the wedding — competing on who knew the most wedding trivia, etc. I had a blast, so did he, or so I thought. He was 14 yrs younger, worked part time as a baseball umpire, had a bright and witty mind, and was a total gentleman. We ended up snuggling a bit, and even kissing a little.

I wasn’t going to chase him, so I did send a quick email letting him know I got home safely, I left it up to him to reach out to contact me for future dates, if he wanted. A week went by. I finally got an email telling me he’d been out of commission as he’d pulled muscles in his back. I took him dinner and a heating pad and massaged his back. I waited another week before he contacted me again, which I thought was a bit strange. We emailed and planned to go for a hike at the ocean to his favorite place.

Previously, he had told me he was a confirmed bachelor, and he had “been played” by some gal a year before, and his feelings were evidentially hurt over that break up. He made another comment I didn’t quite catch, however, I think he said if I got too romantic he’d just end the relationship. Huh? I didn’t understand.

Hike to the ocean

The day came for us to go on our picnic hike to the ocean. I was to meet him at noon at his place. I had misplaced my keys and was running about 10 minutes late, so I called and got his voice mail to let him know I was on my way. When I arrived, he pointed to his watch and let me know I was late and he has a “thing about that.” Hmmm, kinda uptight, I thought to myself. After all, I did call and left a message. It wasn’t as if we were going to a concert that started at a specific time. We had all day, and what was 10 minutes? I was on “observe and take mental notes” duty, as I’d learned to watch for signs from the very very beginning, as people will give plenty of clues as to who they really are if you take off your blinders and stop making excuses for people.

My next clue came when he drove like a maniac, and made me uncomfortable tailgating. My telling him so and asking him to slow down only helped a bit when I pointed out he had 364 days a year to drive as he wished, and this one time to consider me. He did slow down, a bit, but when we came to a very curvy section of road I asked him to take the easier detour so I wouldn’t get car sick, and he refused! Ok, now my alarm system was on full alert. I was getting too many clues of his selfishness, and little comments he made to upset me. He even noticed something about me he said he could use to “push your buttons.” I didn’t think highly of that, either! Instead of being comfortable in his company, I was becoming quite wary. He seemed to take pleasure making me squirm. Not good.

We arrived at the beach, went on a bit of a hike to get there, and he helped me up and over these huge boulders on the beach. However, he wanted to be out on the edge where huge waves were crashing up on the rocks. He stood out there like a crazy guy, and I could see he was addicted to adrenalin. I couldn’t keep up with him and didn’t want to. I was getting tired, and yet he kept pushing me to go further and further, though I knew if I did I could fall and hurt myself, and told him so. HE wanted to go further, so we did, and that was that. I just made more mental notes realizing how selfish and somewhat antagonistic I found him towards me. I actually should not have been climbing on those rocks, I’m 64 years old and have had knee surgery, but he pushed me and said he didn’t drive all that way not to see it all. Eventually, we left to return towards home.

He had originally suggested we go to a local seafood restaurant for some clam chowder, but now that it was time to do so, he changed his mind and we drove back towards home. He did stop at a taco wagon that is parked in the grocery store parking lot and got less than $10 worth of tacos. He did make a point to pull out about eight $20 bills and fanned them in front of himself as he was paying for the tacos. He let it be known he had the $ to eat in a real restaurant, but instead here we were sitting at a picnic table in a grocery parking lot eating $1.50 tacos. Mind you, I’m not a gold digger, and I had brought food for the picnic. I eat at that taco truck myself from time to time. It was just the way he did this felt more like he was intentionally avoiding spending any money on me, and not keeping his promise to go for chowder as originally planned.

“Bad boy”

After we got back to his place, he didn’t help off load any of my stuff to put in my vehicle. He just gathered up his own and went up to his apartment leaving me to do my own. Once I did, we watched TV for a while, then he started kissing and it was warming up. I was about to stop it to leave when he came out and made a comment that after a while of a relationship going along nicely that he “likes to mix it up” and will let his “bad boy” come out. He said he would do things like cancel plans with me at the very last minute because something he rather do came along.

I told him that wasn’t a problem as long as he gave me enough notice to make other plans so my time wasn’t wasted. He said no, that it would be at the last minute, and why shouldn’t he go do something he liked better? I thought about it for a minute, looked back over the times I’d been with him, especially all the signals he had been giving me throughout the day, and I realized what I was dealing with. I figured out I was with a selfish brat narcissistic, probably abusive, and I felt like he was trying to set me up to expect less of him. Once I had him pegged, I instantly knew I had to get out of there immediately and have nothing more to do with him.

So, after taking in his bad boy comment, I replied back to him, “You wouldn’t do that with me if you ever wanted to see me again. Thank you for the warning.” I stood up, went over to where my car keys were sitting on a table, picked them up, went to the front door and left. I walked out on him and never looked back. I know he wasn’t expecting that! For once in my life, I had my eyes and ears open, didn’t believe a word he said, watched his behavior and believed that, and when the picture emerged, I didn’t waste another minute trying to change him or hope for the best. I just got out before any damage could be done.

In retrospect, I realize he was sizing me up to see if I took any Rx, had any jewelry and money, investments, where I lived, etc., and assumed I had $$$. He picked the wrong person! I know I’ve not heard from him either as he realized I really don’t have anything to offer him, and I’m certainly not going to have anything to do with him anyway.

I wish I had used my head in the past, but at least I did this time. I am grateful for your website for helping to ID a sociopath and pay attention to the signals. Also, the most important is to know not to get involved in the first place, because you cannot change the person and he’s not anyone you should have in your life anyway.

So, I dodged a bullet and the info on your website helped me to do just that.

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That’s awesome! Good job spotting~ I’m sure he didn’t call because the last thing a psycho wants is someone who catches on to them. Standing up to him & walking out was also another reason. He is obviously looking for someone he can walk all over and he knows you’re not that person. At least he came out & let you know what he was looking for. Most of them just pretend to be someone else until you’re so caught in their trap it’s tooth & nail to get out. Again, I’m so glad for you!


Thank goodness for Lovefraud! The education we get here is invaluable, but it’s sad that we have to go through hell before we find our way here. I wish I knew then, what I know now!

I can’t believe how naive/stupid/blind I was when I met the nutjob.

On our first date, he couldn’t take his eyes off the waitress, couldn’t pay, farted all the way back to the car (I know its childish but can’t stop laughing at that!) and ran out of petrol on his way home. I drove 9 miles and paid to fill his car, needless to say I never got the money back!
That was just the beginning.

Well done on looking after yourself and getting out before any damage was done!

kim frederick

Lorna, thanks for sharing this. Good for you. I’m so glad you walked out his door and never looked back! I’m sure you saved yourself a lot of pain and frustration.

I am pondering why he would tell you about his bad boy side. What were his motivations? It’s not like his bad-boy behavior is particularly attractive or coveted. Most normal women would do as you did, and walk away.

Was this a test? He was weeding out the type of woman he didn’t want. He didn’t want someone who would expect decent treatment or who would demand respect. He didn’t want someone with a strong sense of self, who would defend her boundry or who was able to say “No”.

In short, he wanted someone who was willing to be abused.

Who is more willing to be abused then untreated trauma survivors? Is that why trauma survivors unwittingly find themselves repeating their trauma’s? Also, interesting to note that shame is always a factor in trauma and trauma bonding. By his telling you how he would behave, he was already testing you for the requisite charictaristics of the trauma bonded partner. If you agreed, he not only would have made you miserable, but he would have the go ahead to do so, and he would feel nothing but contempt for you, and it would be your fault! You would internalize this and feel SHAME. Perhaps a part of you would agree with him. There goes your already shakey self esteem.

There would always be drama. He would occasionally toss in a really good time, but then immeadiatly dash your warm fuzzy feelings with more dissappointment and a sense of dispair. He would thrive on building you up, just to let you down. The proverbial roller-coaster ride through hell.

I guess my point to all this is this: He told you how he would treat you to increase your shame and there-by insure that you would trauma bond.

I’m pretty sure he has never heard the term “trauma bond” and I’m pretty sure this is all just par for the course, in his mind…it’s just the way he is, and all that rot, but it’s so calculated and it is so great to have the knowledge and the ability to recognize it for what it is. Yay!!!!!!! Lorna-1 Spath-0



Thanks for sharing your story with all of us!
YOU ROCK! Now THAT is how it is done!

Waste NO time letting them spin their webs.
Get up and get away; they are a bomb about to explode and when they do, whoever is in the general area or vacinity is going to end up in a hell. WHY? All because we care? No, these people are askew in their logical thinking and just consider it rudeness and get away because the rudeness eventually leads to destruction of all whom gets in the way of what they want.

Yes, Kim: ‘trauma bond’; hurt you to fix you. Yes, I know that plan well. Unless a person has lived this experience, they would have no idea of the dynamics we are speaking of. But, let me tell you this: if a relationship starts out in the beginning and it already has problems; if you meet someone who gives you the thought ‘hey, this aint right’, BELIEVE IT. Your senses are telling YOU SOMETHING!

Get away and move far away.
After everything I have been put through with my x sp, he actually had the nerve to try getting me in bed the last time he was here. He was being very cruel, mean, degrading, FOR NO REASON OR PURPOSE, other than he can. His new girlfriend is so jealous of me that she has turned x p against me and against everyone in his life.

If she is not careful she is going to end up in a spot she doesn’t wish and I tried to warn her. She didn’t believe me and it is all I can do. She is as bad as HE IS and isn’t it a scarey thought to know there is a couple out there, increasing the gene pool of consciousless? I mean, cold-blooded with no regret nor conscious.

If a ‘relationship’ starts out askew,it is always going to remain that way. It starts out by subtle controlling; then steps up to ‘extreme controlling’; then the shouting, then the shoving, then the threats and you need to remember they have no sense of ‘control’ about themselves. The only control lever they have is THEIR WANTS & NEEDS. And, it’s not even that so much as it is a compulsion that they follow and we think they should be able to choose to be different but I am convinced they really can’t help themselves but that is no excuse nor reason to put yourself and your life in any danger whatsoever.

“LOVE” has been painted in the same colors as the white picket fence, the dog in the back yard and the station wagon….we all want to believe we will find that love and bond and affection and we always look for the best in most people when MOST PEOPLE , let me say NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE wish the best for us.

I can’t explain nor define the importance of NC and keeping it up once you make that break.

I spoke with a forensic psycologist regarding my situation and was told an excellent piece of advice and I totally believed him and this is what is inspiring me:

“You need to get far far away from this person or he will destroy you. He will harm you. He will hurt you. Get away from him. No contact; ever; for any reason. Once you are gone and stay quiet, he will forget about you and move on to his next victim.”

Chilling; isn’t it? Yes. Absolutely.
Take extra precautions with yourself and what you do.
Dealing with a sp is an ever changing pattern and you think you have been shocked, THUS FAR…

Remember that what you saw is only the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, sp use conditioning to make you do what they wish.
The ‘rabbit hole’ goes really really deep.

I am so happy you got away!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t look back. Keep on truckin “Lorna”~!!!!!!!



Wow, Lorna! That is so awesome you stood up to that creep and got away! I just soooo wish I had done that instead of falling in love like a fool. But there is nothing I can do about that now. I can only refrain from letting it happen ever again. I was also lucky to never marry one, live with one or have children with one. I need to thank my luck stars and God for that. It is so true that they don’t want strong women like Lorna. They want the weak ones they can control. I saw evidence of that in my situation. I was the stronger one in the triangulation; the other one was much weaker. She even told me so herself; told me I was much stronger than her. It was true and guess who he chased more? Her of course. She was easy. He even told me that he didn’t know anything about me…he didn’t have any ammunition to use against me. She is like an open book and has diarrhea of the mouth…she was giving him all kind of clues as to what he needed to do to use her. To break her down.


I have experienced what the forensic psychologist told you…that if you go away and stay quiet, they forget about you. They do. They go onto their next victims. Notice I said victims and not victim. Sad.


Good job on seeing the warning signs for exactly what they were and getting away before too much damage was done.

The testing to see what you will accept, the truama bonding, I wish I’d known about those before I met my ex! I saw/felt the warning signs about my ex and did not respond to his advances at first. I had no desire to go out with him, thought there was something “not right” about him. I guess this was a challenge, so he pursued me until he found out enough information to deceive me more effectively, and I fell for it. It ended 13 years later after mental/emotional/physical abuse, secret bank accounts and women, and saying he was going to kill me. This was my second husband. My first husband was dysfunctional too. I don’t know if he is a sociopath, but he had a secret, hidden life going on behind my back. The only boyfriend I’ve had since the divorce was shady, too. Now I haven’t dated in two years. I don’t know if it’s even worth it. I have to figure out what it is about me that makes me a target and causes me to buy into their manipulations. Of course, now I think I am hypervigilant when I even think someone is manipulating me. It really freaks me out. These people can really do a number on you.

On the flip side, I’m out and I’m living a relatively peaceful life now. By that, I mean that I have to deal with ex’s socio-behaviors due to having a child with him, but at least I don’t deal with him every day like when we were married. I just wish there was more education for people to know about warning signs and that sociopaths ARE out there around us. It’s so hard to deal with others not understanding what I’ve been through, thinking it was just a bad relationship.

Pay attention to those red flags! We are so apt to accept people no matter what they do, to trust them when they explain everything away. Trust your first impressions and instincts and get out of there before they get you hooked.



Thank you for that awesome post!!


I got away from the clutches of my 2nd spath & he tried to kill me.
I met him exactly one year after my ex-spath husband deserted me. This was one year before I met my current 30 year spouse.
I used to walk by a construction site early in the morning on my way to work. The guys used to be out there working and everyday when I walked by they’d whistle.
One guy caught my eye and seemed to be particularly attracted to me. He was very sexy and often had his tee-shirt off exposing a gorgeous muscular chest. He had the Marlborough man look. Rugged and sexy. You know the kind with the mustache.
I was still grieving my divorce from the spath and hadn’t stepped back into the dating world.
Anyhow one day he stepped forward and made his presence
known to me and introduced himself.
I was really stand-offish after coming out of my divorce with the spath but at the same time I was overcome by his good looks.
We talked a while he walked me over to a nearby pond and wooed me. After we talked a while he made a date to take me out to dinner which I accepted.
So he came to my apartment and picked me up. We went out and he told me how he had escaped from the Iron Curtain.
He had a very sexy Eastern-European accent.
He told me how he had escaped with 2 other men and they had to cut through 3 fences with wire cutters to make it to freedom. All the while guards were shooting at them. They made it out alive. This was in the early 80’s before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
We finished dinner which was very pleasant and when we made it out to the parking lot a woman corned us and started screaming at him. Apparently she had followed us to the restaurant and waited outside to make her entrance.
She began screaming at him and swearing.
I was very nervous. At this point I didn’t know if I was dealing with another sociopath or a love-struck stalking woman.
This was my first red flag. But I was also optimistic and thought I’d hang in there for a while and test the waters.
As time went on he made other dates with me and everything appeared normal.
Then one day a totally different woman showed up at my apartment with her mother. She told me she had been dating my East European boyfriend for over a year and he had promised her marriage. She also told me he was dating her at the same time we were going out. I then began to confirm my suspicions I was dating another spath.
It was at this point I decided to get out before we got in too deep. We had been dating about 3-4 months.
I made a date with him where I decided to call it all off.
Anyhow we got together and I didn’t give him my exact reasons but I told him I thought it all out and thought we should cool it for a while. I told him I was still reeling from a bad divorce and didn’t want to set myself up for another hurt.
He asked me if Lidia and her mother had gotten to me.
I asked him, “how he knew?”
He told me Lidia told him she had confronted me.
Anyhow he accepted this and we walked away from it amicably or so I thought.
About one week passed. I was living in a rooming house with other tenants. I was sharing a 2nd floor flat with a couple other people. One night I thought I heard someone in the kitchen. The two other people I was living with were out for the night. I was alone. I called out my two roommates names and no one answered so I got up and looked into the living room. The door was wide open and no one was there.
I even walked out into the street to look. I didn’t find anyone but I swear someone was in my apartment that night and it wasn’t my other 2 room mates because I questioned them the next day. So it had to be an intruder.
Anyhow from then on I made sure the apartment was well locked.
Another week went by and one Saturday morning I awoke. I got out of bed and felt a strange heat. I thought it was unusually hot but it was also a July weekend.
So I went back to sleep. At around 8 or 9 in the morning someone was knocking on my door screaming, “wake up, fire, fire. My God wake up.”
This time I was home with one other roommate. The apartment was completely engulfed in black smoke. I could barely breath. I tried to get out the front door but the apartment was engulfed in flames. I got out the back door. No time to take anything. By the time I got downstairs I remembered Jimmy one of my roommates was asleep in the other bedroom. By the time I got downstairs the fire department was there. I told them which bedroom Jimmy was in. They broke a window and had to get a latter to get him out. Jimmy survived but he had inhaled a lot of smoke and needed an oxygen mask.
I lost everything in that fire, my clothes, furniture and everything I owned up until that time.
The fire department told me someone had removed the smoke detector from the apartment and the fire was of suspicious origin and looked like it had been set.
I then remembered the week before when someone had broken into my apartment. It was probably at that time the smoke alarm had been disassembled.
Anyhow I strongly suspected my Eastern European date but of course I couldn’t prove it.
I never saw him after that. I left the area and went back home to my folks to live. I met my current husband a year later.
Then in the early 1990’s the Iron Curtain fell. One day a woman & her daughter came to my apartment. It was my Eastern European’s ex-wife and daughter. She wanted to meet me. I wasn’t really interested. This was about 10 years after the fire. I had never told my husband about him. But he knew of my ex-spath husband. Luckily my husband was at work. She asked me if she could come in and talk.
I reluctantly agreed but I wanted to see if she confirmed my suspicions and sure enough she did. I was dealing with another spath when I met her ex-husband.
She told me of her life in Eastern Europe and how her ex-husband ran around on her with woman after woman.
She told me he divorced her for another woman who was carrying his child. Shortly after they married he tired of her and wanted a divorce. Her family threatened to kill him so he managed to escape his country taking two other fellows with him to cut threw the fences. I told her he told me that story.
I told her about the strange unexplained fire that happened and how I had my suspicions. She told me in her country he was known to set fires also. After a while she left. While she confirmed my suspicions I hoped she didn’t show up again.
I had moved on with my life and ten years had passed.
I had two kids with my current husband and didn’t want him to be involved in my past. I wondered what would happen if I alerted the police and fire department to my suspicions.
Ten years passed and I decided to let sleeping dogs lie.
It’s been 30 years since both episodes with two spaths.
I’m happily married and pray that God keeps my remaining years on this Earth peaceful. I look at my beautiful family I have now and count my blessings every day. I truly believe God sends us these experiences as lessons in our life. This way we can guide our own children. My parents never prepared me for life’s evils and the unexpected. Hopefully my own kids will be more prepared through my guidance.

Ox Drover



I think it was a TEST to see just how much sheet you would put up with and if you put up with what he had already done (rudeness delux) then he would have upped the ante and gotten right down to “the brass tacks” of out right ABUSE….

I think when someone SHOWS us what they are we need to BELIEVE THEM, and you did!

TOWANDA!!!! Good for you! You get a GOLD STAR chickie!


Lorna, Donna has taught us in the beginning they give clues about themselves. This is how the game begins. Some people are clever enogh to pick up on that. For others it takes longer until it’s too late. I learned after my first experience with a spath. But at that time there was no Lovefraud.
I am so grateful for Donna setting up this site to educate men and women about sociopaths so folks who have never played the game know what it is all about.
When bad boys start talking about their dark side that is a dead give away. I bet chances are you met him through a dating club or the internet. In spite of the fact sociopaths are a tiny percentage of the population they tend to be enmass
on the dating sites looking for victims.
It’s good you recognized what he was and got away before the damage was done.



Are you the one who posted the link about the Nephilim? I have been reading about it since and I may be crazy, but I think all the spaths could be descendants of these creatures. Am I losing it?? I am a Christian and not sure I should be thinking this way…oh, dear! 🙂


Yes dear. I posted about the nephilim. I too am a Christian and believe they are the descendants. Did you read about the nephilim gene. Supposedly we all carry this back from the Garden of Eden. The Nephilim infected the human race when they mated into us. The gene remains dormant in most of us but when particular sets of people mate and it runs strongly in their family line a “sociopath” is born.
I’m not the only one who thinks like this. If you read the web many other folks believe this and so do many of the “sociopaths.”
I’m an empath and under the guidelines of modern psychiatry empaths and vampires(sociopaths) don’t exist and are fairytales. However independent folks in both the medical and psychiatric professions know these folks exist through their years of experience and seeing these patients.
These stories are deeply routed in religion and mythology but remember this. To every legend there is basis in fact.
One has to ask themselves why are these stories in the bible and in the legends of the Greek myths. Why were some of the dead sea schrolls omitted from the Christian bible can their be a purpose to this? Maybe the church was hiding man’s true origins from humanity.
In any event the legends are out there and these folks seem to fit the mold of the nephilim. It could be that over time when they inbreeded into the human race they adapted and took on more of a human appearance. I’ll go more into this in other posts as time goes on. For now I’ll introduce these myths little by little. You can judge for yourself what you believe. Some people may believe this and others not.
But with my emphatic abilities and what I’ve sensed from these people’s auras I’m a firm believer.


nola has a brand new name!


Joanie: Idk if I really believe about the Nephilim gene, although I agree it’s in the Bible about sons of God having children with daughters of men. It made me have a strange thought. My ex is unbelievably strong. He is a big guy (6’2″ and over 200 lbs.), but I’m not a small woman (5’7″ and 165-170). He could literally throw me across the room to the point where I hit furniture or the wall, even when I was heavier than I am now. He could easily keep me trapped in a room. I would try like heck to get away from him to no avail. I’ve even dated a very muscular mixed martial artist and wrestled around with him for fun, but I’ve never come across another man who is as strong or as quick as my ex.

And I wasn’t the only one who experienced his strength and fighting skills (without any martial arts training or anything). He and his brother enjoyed telling the story of where my ex’s face and scalp scar came from. My ex’s brother supposedly started a fight with some thugs at a convenience store, then ran inside while my ex fought and beat the crap out of all four thugs, one of whom had a knife. It sounds like a lot of bragging on his part, but believe me the stories could go on and on. Everytime we ran into one of his old friends and they reminisced, these types of stories came up. Once when we were standing in line to buy tickets for a comedy show, a drunk (or maybe high) guy in the line kept picking on one of the guys that was with us. He kept making rude comments and just wouldn’t stop. My ex suddenly turned, completely picked up this grown man (not a small guy either), I mean totally up in the air-feet off the ground, slammed him down on a brick planter, and put his thumbs in the guy’s eyes. It happened so fast, I can’t even explain how unbelievable it was. I grabbed his arm and begged him not to gouge the guy’s eyes out, because I thought it was really going to happen. He did stop short of that, thank goodness.

Anyway, his strength and fighting abilities are something he has always been known for. I thought it must be because he was totally without fear (which he is), but who knows.

Louise, I concur with you. I’m a Christian and not sure I should even think about it!


Hi Everyone!
I’m Lorna. You just read my abbreviated post of my most recent experience with a spath. I’m new here, obviously. Nice to meet all of you! Wish I had this data in my earlier years when I was quite pretty, young, lively and oh so gullible!

I agree with all you posted. I think the key is learning to look for clues and not make excuses right from minute/day one! Also, pay attention to how you FEEL, especially about yourself and in your gut. Instead of getting all giddy about having a new man in your life and all the possibilities, it’s better to be in OBSERVATION mode and make mental note of all the clues you get from the start.

I actually came home and wrote down the signals I had gotten in my short time with this spath. We need to teach people to pay attention and heed those signals, and do so immediately instead of getting in deeper. Also, do NOT go to bed with anyone until you are absolutely sure you are in a genuine loving relationship.

I am a survivor of abuse from growing up with a controlling father and a violent older brother who sexually abused me. I had no sense of self worth until years later when I got into counseling. My therapist told me to look for signals right away, they are there, and to pay attention. She said these will only become MORE SO over time, and sure enough, she was right. But I didn’t really know what signals, and how subtle they could be.

The first thing I noticed was that he kept interrupting what I was saying, and I didn’t get to finish my train of thought. He turned conversations back to what interested HIM, and mostly about himself. I didn’t pick up on that right away as a clue, but I did notice this happening.

My #1 GOLDEN RULE is that MY welfare and happiness must be a very high priority for my partner. So, as this date to the ocean took place, he kept breaking that rule over and over – in little ways – but still, the evidence was undeniable. In fact, he seemed to intentionally push my limits. These were the clues I was observing, the comments with little ‘digs’ in them that were petty insults to push my buttons, the driving irresponsibly even after I asked him to slow down or change the route, pushing me to climb and exert myself in a dangerous manner at the beach, trying to get me to go out to the edge of the rocks where the HUGE waves were crashing and where many people have been swept out to sea and died (but he went out there all the while goading me to join him), etc etc etc as I originally posted. My list of clues became quite long when I actually wrote them down! In every instance, he was NOT caring about my well being, and most especially when I asked NOT to do something, then he did just the reverse. He was testing me then to see how compliant I was, I’m sure.

The bottom line is not to ignore the clues and to get out immediately. The biggest mistake we have all made was to think it will get better and stay, or to ignore and stay, or to think we can inspire them to change (that’s the funniest of all!), or to get our ego involved and think we can be so wonderful they will change to please us (hahahahah!), etc. I took my therapists advice and accepted the clues for what they were and just got out.

Yes, I think he was testing me. He was also setting me up to be forewarned that he was turning into a jerk and not to complain when he started behaving badly – “I told you how I am….”.

He never asked about my family, my friends, what I was doing when he wasn’t around, what I like to do for fun, if I had any siblings, where I grew up and so forth. Talk was mostly about HIM. When I did mention something, he seemed not to be interested at all, and switched subjects. He was interested to know about anything that he might want to take from me such as my financial status, what kind of work, where I lived – I never gave him my actual address – only the town I live in which is an upscale community, he observed the quality of my jewelery, car I drove, etc. Oh, he shared with me his income, work, where he lived, etc., and I am sure he did so to make me comfortable telling him the same about me – which I did NOT. He never did find out my address, and he cannot trace me here, either. I know he won’t as I don’t have what he wants anyway.

Educating people to the clues and the importance of heeding them is truly, in my opinion, the most valuable in helping people avoid getting sucked in. Thank goodness for LoveFraud!

Meanwhile, it’s wierd how someone like that can quickly get under your skin. Even though I got out within a month of meeting this person, and only having been with him 3 times, the good times at first ‘stuck’, and it has been hard to not think about him. It must be like taking heroin – totally addicting – if you are not aware what is going on and you stay.

Ok, so fast forward, my curiosity kicked in, so I did some checking up on him. I know how to do that pretty well, and maybe I can help others in that regard. I had to go to our county offices this week to get a document on file, and while there I did some research into this spath. Anyone can do this, and I suggest you do for anyone you might want to include in your life. I do advise you do this very early on.

First, go to your county Sheriff’s office and look on their public database for any criminal records. Here, it’s computerized, and the computer is right outside at the reception desk. I put in his name and discovered a DUI from 3 years ago. I did note that he completed all his requirements from the court – on time, no less. So he is still functional in that regard. I didn’t find anything else there.

Then, I went to the County Recorder’s office and did the same on that computer. Bingo! I was able to find out he had lived with a woman for a number of years – not married – and they owned a house together. It kept going in and out of foreclosure – and this was back in the 90s. Imagine the roller coaster ride that must have been! They eventually parted ways as she took over the house and later married someone. She still lives at this house, and I got the address and did a drive by; cute place, actually. I bet she has some stories to tell about him!

I have not yet gone to the county office where you get marriage/birth/death data, and I have not yet been to the Bankruptcy court to do a data search there. But you can and should do all of the above. This works if you spath is local as these are only county-wide searches.

Back in the late 80s after Fatal Attraction had been out about 6 months, I met a guy who tried to sweet talk me, and I just had a feeling he was married. He wouldn’t give me home phone or address, only his weekend vacation house in the area where I’d met him. So, I went to the county where he was from and did the above searches, as well as went to the divorce court and got those records, and I did discover he was married. The assessors office gave me the address where his property tax bills were being sent, so I checked out that place too at the recorders office. His homes were on title with both his and wife’s names. I did more reasearch, and then let him take me out to dinner.

We went to a really nice place, and I ordered almost everything on the menu! (Appetizer, soup, salad, expensive main course, expensive wine, dessert, after dinner drinks,. etc) When we got back to his place, he was sweet talkin me saying he was going to take me away for a weekend and yada yada yada… I asked him what “Dorothy” (his wife on record) would think of him taking another woman away?
Long and short, I had him cornered. Unfortunately, he stole $200 from my wallet when I used the bathroom. Anyway, I let him know I was on to him and left. Years later, he is now in jail for bilking neighbors and investors out of $1.75 million.

AGAIN, get out immediately when your clues add up. Compare all said and done to my golden rule. NO exceptions.
AND NO EXCUSES for their behavior! Remember, Actions speak louder than words. HEED these points and take your time.

It is better to be alone that to be with the wrong man. Pay attention from the start and act accordingly. Thanks for all your comments!!!

Hugs to all,


To Imust and others,

In regards to dealing with a strong spath if you think you are in physical danger and he won’t let you get away, here’s a tip.
Keep a can of WASP SPRAY in your house where you can get to it immediately. Rather than using a gun, Wasp spray is a better alternative. At least it will give you time to get away. It will shoot out at least 20 feet ahead of you, so they won’t get near you but will be disabled giving you the extra seconds you need to escape. It’s good to keep a can by your bed, one in the kitchen and one near the front door and one in your car. It’s cheap, and you can get it at most large grocery stores or hardware stores. Check that out!



Good safety tips Lorna. We should always pay attention to our surroundings after NC. Not obsessive about it but aware. With a spath, you never can tell. One minute they could be loving you and the next trying to murder you. All in the flash of a moment. Don’t be lured into thinking in the silence, they have forgotten you because they always come back. Always. NC is the only way to guarantee they don’t. I understand how difficult it is letting go and trust me, the conscious portion is the one they heavily rely upon to keep you sucked in.

Spaths don’t like being upstarted.
They don’t like being TOLD anything where they aren’t the one’s doing the telling.

They don’t like hearing the truths because their souls are dark and they hide from the truth.

Be careful ladies and gentlemen….
Spaths are the new alien race on the planet and it’s being promulgated by our societal lack of virtues.

God bless all.

Ox Drover

Dear Lorna,

Glad you are here, and glad you approve of the wasp spray, I also like oven cleaner if you can get the kind that squirts out the TOP of the can not the side like hair spray….but wash spray is good as well.

Your suggestions about checking someone out are well taken too….

From your story about the wild ride to the beach I would have been afraid of that jerk as well….

Again, welcome to LF and glad you are here…also glad that you have a good vision of the RED FLAGS as well! Keep save!



I think what they do is, they make YOU out to be the abuser because you don’t play by THEIR rules — which, of course, they make up as they go along. Honestly, I did a complete ethics check and found no history in myself of sending ordinary people off cliffs of expectation and anticipation. Really. Just people like this.

I’ve met quite a few variations on the story above. I hope these aren’t the kinds of people that the posters here date and marry. They’re too obvious. “Insta-spaths.” Quickies. Geez, they don’t even give you a couple of weeks of fantasy before they grow fangs. The second date is usually when they do it. I’ve had ones that wait until the third one, but that was when I was YOUNG, darlings.

My last insta-spath was in the summer of 2009, when I accepted a road trip and sailing invitation from someone in Europe. Yeah, Europe. We have many mutual friends, so I chanced it, knowing he would have to save face before all of them before crossing me. He tried it anyway.

After a few unmistakeably abusive incidents, I just shut down. Then he opened it up, like, “We should talk about this,” and boy, did I. I told him I was never, ever talked to or treated the way he did the night before. Well, then, he said, what was my general impression of the trip?

I said, “gratitude.” No kidding. “Thank you for the trip,” I added with a smile as I watched the lovely French countryside go by from a new Mercedes-Benz. (Tacos??! You settled for tacos?! LOL.)

Then why wouldn’t I treat him nice? After all he’d done for me? CONSISTENCY.

You see, these people like writing little scripts and watching people play them out consistently. I sincerely enjoyed my trip. And I hadn’t let him truly or dangerously abuse me. I took what I wanted, and walked out on what I didn’t like. Brat that I am.

Come to think of it, that was the same protest that the guy I left at 50th St. and Lexington Ave. one night gave me. I did this, I did that, I “led him on,” blah blah blah, and here I was, abandoning him, what a brat. I told him over drinks I wasn’t sleeping in a hotel with him, I told him in a cab on the way to a “bar,” I told him when I didn’t notice a bar in that hotel we went to, I told him when he was checking in on his credit card while I laughed with some Greek tourists in the lobby, and I told him at the elevators. Last time I told him no means no, I was walking out the door, calmly, on his $500 mistake. (Incidentally, he called me a year later, when I came up on the rotation apparently, saying it had been a while, he wondered how I’d been, etc. He thought it had gone “rather well,” he said. What was he hoping for this time? The date-rape-defense baseball bat?)

Just kidding about the “brat” part. But it’s fun to play the brat. Change up the script, girls. Be a brat. Spoiled. Yes, a golddigger, for 20 minutes. Just because someone called you something, doesn’t mean that’s what you are. What you are is someone who DESERVES HAPPINESS AND WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES.

Exclamation point.

You’re worth it.


I’d like to mention if you go to you can look up marriages and divorces. Often times spaths move from state to state so their past doesn’t catch up with them. Often times it’s difficult to get records from various states.
There’s also a criminal data base that will hook you up with their various state records but I’m not sure how to access that. Maybe someone else who’s done it can tell us how it’s done.
I couldn’t investigate my ex-spath husband back in the day because most people didn’t have internet but boy when it got hooked up what I found was a gold mine. But be that as it may it was years later and what good was it to me now.
As I mentioned in another post the only thing I could hope to get out of it all would possibly be an annulment but at my age I wouldn’t go for it.
Lorna: You mentioned how he made you walk over the rough rocks by the water and how you felt like you could have fallen in and got swept out to sea.
I can remember when I was married to my ex-spath my kids from my first marriage were very small. At the zoo we passed the lions cage. There were two fences separating the lions from the visitors. One fence was a big one that enclosed the lions. Then there was a smaller one about 2-3 ft. high in front of that. That was to keep the people out.
At the zoo my ex-spath husband started to lift my little boy over the fence. I said, “what are you doing? Do you want him to get hurt?” He said, “I want him to take a picture directly in front of the lions cage?” I quickly grabbed my son from his arms and said, “are you nuts?” “Why do you think they have 2 fences separating the lions from the people?” “It’s to keep the lions from mauling people!” After that I was shaking and ex-hubby spath told me he was only joking.
Yea right, joking my arse. Either he was serious or he wanted to get a thrill out of me. This fits in with the emotional roller coaster ride and if someone get’s damaged or killed in the process Oh, well………….



Wow, you really have had some experiences, haven’t you??? Seems you were able to get out of all of them without being scathed. Thank God!



Yes, I do believe in this nephilim gene. Funny, because my X spath is a small guy, but powerful. Doesn’t mean they have to be big or tall to be a descendant. I did find it interesting though the first time I discovered how strong he really is. Hmmmm. Thanks for your posts.



I think it’s OK to be Christians and still believe in the nephilim thing. Wow, what a story about your X spath!!!


All great posts! Thanks so much!

About 2 years ago, I needed a lot of yard word done on my country property. A gentleman (gay) friend of mine suggested an acquaintance who was looking for work, so I hired him to help me move out of my office downtown and to do the yard work. Wow, days one and two he worked like a busy bee, and I fixed dinner. We had a nice time. We started hanging out with each other. I was growing kind of fond of him. I gave him the office equipment I no longer needed in exchange for his work. All seemed fine.

About the time he figured out I was getting fond of him, (he even made a comment about that) he came to work for another day, but I made the horny mistake of bedding him. Well, he went out to my back deck where I had a sofa in the shade, and proceeded to fall asleep and slept the full day away – after drinking all the beer in my fridge. Then the snide comments began. He always did just talk about himself and had absolsutely NO interest in anything about me. Uh oh, I thought to myself. I figured he better enjoy that nap because it was the last he would ever be welcome on my property. I took him home and never called him again to come to work.

I found out later he had been in prison for domestic violence! I added up all the signals I had gotten, and realized he was yet another spath, but I also nipped that in the bud.

Yep, about a year later he showed up at my door asking why I had never gotten back in touch with him. He had some other guy with him. I just flat out told him because he was an asshole and I didn’t need him in my life! His companion smiled and shook his head in agreement! Ha! I got rid of the spath and never looked back. Another bullet dodged.

I never married, so I have known a lot of guys in my 64 years on this planet (in this lifetime, at least). I’ve come across quite a few, and most before I got wise. Yep, nip it in the bud.

I love reading all your comments in the blogs – have lots of reading to do. Thanks for the tip about Didn’t know about that. I use zabasearch to find old addresses sometimes. I go to the county office as most records are not online, but that doesn’t help if he is from out of the area.

Sharing tips and experiences sure is a huge help.

Be safe, be smart, be strong!

Your gal pal,



Have you ever listened to a man named Chuck Missler? He is a Bible scholar and used to advisor for our troops worked with the whitehouse in some manner. Anyway,he has alot of very good sermons(talks) about nephilium. He has alot of videos on youtube. Just search his name,wow is all I can say. I know my spath of 27 years in 1. Im a God fearing Christian,this guy makes alot of sence. Just wanted to pass this along.


I have alot of things that happened right after I was married to my spath 27 years ago. I need to talk to someone who actually believes in God and is a practicing Christian,by this I mean studies the Bible etc. it is difficult to discuss it with someone who is not familiar with the Bible. I anyone has the time I would appreciate it.



I quote you: “I think what they do is, they make YOU out to be the abuser because you don’t play by THEIR rules” —

How profound! In my opinion, nothing could be closer to the truth…

Well said!



Thanks, Eden.



“Then the snide comments began.”

Oh yes. The only man in my life who was exposed as a spath of sorts some nine years after I met him — not instantly, as the rest of them do — started up with the “snide comments” and various other harsh criticisms and public humiliations when we finally went from “just friends” to “let’s see if we can make this work.” They wait for signs of emotional investment from you.

Some of these people can’t keep a lid on it long enough to get to the point of serious commitment/investment — and they’re just hilarious on the second date! Some of them can, though, and those are the really sad stories.


Gosh, Lorna, you nailed it again:

“Meanwhile, it’s wierd how someone like that can quickly get under your skin. Even though I got out within a month of meeting this person, and only having been with him 3 times, the good times at first ’stuck’, and it has been hard to not think about him. It must be like taking heroin ”“ totally addicting ”“ if you are not aware what is going on and you stay.”

Just remembering a birthday party 13 years ago, where I was introduced to this really devastating spath in my life. And then a year later when the mutual friend whose birthday it was remembered witnessing “a real meeting of the minds” between me and Mr. Spath. He knew the whole story about us, and he still wanted to get us back together!

Apparently, these magic first meetings are so electric that other people in the room still remember them.

Funny — I remember one thing that should have been my clue to GET OUT. A really hilarious thing. We kissed, and I ran my hand through his hair — only to feel his . . . hairpiece. Not that a hairpiece is a big deal; he had a good one that really hid the bald spot well, and he was an actor, so it kind of mattered to have perfect hair. But then he said I was the first one ever to make that discovery. No one had ever touched him there? Hello? And if he was lying, that’s even stranger. Instead of getting out, I thought it was kind of . . . well, cute. Shy. Modest. Sweet.



How did you know he was a spath? I mean, how did you know there WAS such a thing?

And how is it that you came to LF even when you weren’t damaged by this relationship? If you haven’t been hurt or damaged, it’s surprising that you’d spend any time on the net or stumble across this site. Seems like you might just, oh, go to the movies or something.

I’m curious.

Great job, good for you.



To: kim frederick. You wonder why the psychopatic type would brag about being a bad boy, and what would he be testing.I think he believed, that that being a bad boy was cool and adorable and he was merely showing off. Such types are self confused. They confuse having a momentary advantage with being strong, they confuse lying to relatives with signs of superior intelligence.

Ox Drover

Peterd, I think you have a point there….the bragging about being “billy bad ass” makes them more attractive. Sort of like a teenage kid brags about how fast and reckless he drives, or how much he drinks. GOOD POINT.

I think it also is testing to see if “we” will like and tolerate that kind of behavior as well. Or got along with it at least.

It is definitely a RED FLAG.


I’m amazed and impressed at how smart uv been with these guys.
I’m 54 and have only just got it. Now my ‘spathdar’ is so high I don’t think I’ll trust anyone again.

Sistersister & Eden –
I’m interested by the fact that other people have had the experience of being accused of being the abuser. Nutjob would make me feel really bad when I didn’t want to give him more money. Said I was depriving his kids etc etc. I met him on a dating site but he originally came to my house to do some (paid) work on landscaping. He moved in before I could catch my breath and never paid a penny towards bills.

I am still mystified as to why I would let that happen – the red flags were waving in my face!

Do you think they do it as another way of isolating us, by making us feel guilty or ashamed?


momom: I wasn’t aware of Chuck Missler but now that you brought it to my attention I’ll take a look. The belief in the “nephilim” thing is not limited to Christian preacher’s, rabbi’s are into it as well.
lifegoeson: I just think these guys are smooth talkers, sexy, and know how to work us. They say all the right things and entrap us. Normal guys can’t work it like a spath but the relationships are healthier and safer. I also think spath’s actually hypnotize us and put us under some kind of spell.


I think you have something with the hypnotism idea. I can’t explain why I got involved with him at all. Well I first saw him he looked ‘interesting’ but a bit wild. He wasn’t my normal type and I was always a bit wary of him. Although he was tall and not bad looking he was unkempt and disorganised – he never, ever made it to date on time! I posted further up the thread about his farting on the first date. Although I can see the funny side of it now, I found it disrespectful and embarrassing at the time.
I don’t think I ever really relaxed and trusted him but still let him into my life to do untold damage. Maybe I thought he must be a decent guy underneath it all?
I really don’t know – I’m more confused now than I ever was.


My X spath was not my type at all either!!! I am normally attracted to dark haired men…darker skinned like Italian or Greek or something. This guy is as pale as you can get with blue eyes. But he definitely hypnotized me with that stare.


Okay…..I’m not sure I can relay what i’m feeling or reading about ‘delicately’……but here’s my attempt.

Red flag number ONE…….responding to a CL ad! PERIOD!
Lorna, I’m glad you are okay……but I think it’s our responsibility to avoid danger BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
Why is it we will place personal ads, join dating sites….put our ‘stuff’ on the web or we go in with low standards….for whatever reasons, and expect nothing different than a spath or toxic to respond.

I think it goes back to the victims sense of FANTASY. If we live in an authentic- reality based life….and remove the fantasy, cinderella type romantasism from our minds……because we ‘know’ someone who it worked out for…..we know someone who met their spouse on CL or Eharmony or in a dark corner at the airport……GET OVER IT PEOPLE…’s a fantasy we are SOLD!

If we fish in nasty ponds……don’t expect to catch fresh, safe fish!

I am NOT blaming the victim here…..but there is ALWAYS something WE can do starting off to avoid these predators….from the getgo.
A. Don’t place ads on CL. Be safe.
B. Don’t sleep with hired help or strangers and expect anything different.

It’s bad enough in the normal life dating ‘pool’, where friends set you up or it’s a co worker etc……but the success rate drops subtantially on the web. We must ask ourselves… this worth it?

I know you didn’t place a dating ad on CL…..but did it ever cross your mind to call your ‘gay’ friend to stay up and watch the wedding….or check into a hotel with a TV and watch it with strangers in the lobby. The guy thought he’d hit the jackpot… showed up at HIS domain, bearing gifts…..with a romantic mindset of Wills and Kate and all the hubaloo that surrounded it.
You knew the guy 3 hours and you were cuddleing up and kissing…..
Lorna…..check yourself!!!!

Predators will always go with the standards WE show upfront, and work ‘down’ from there.
When we show plyability……they will continue to turn us into GUMBY. Whether we like it or not. It’s the predators way! Animals do this….and we expect different from a spath or anyone from that matter.
If someone states they will be happy with $5.00…..nobody in their right mind is gonna offer $500.

These guys do what they do. Look for easy targets.
IT”S US that must walk above THEM!

This is why Sociopaths will never go away……there are TOO many of us out there to prey on.

Again, i’m glad your safe Lorna, you didn’t deserve to be victimized or steered in that direction, but we all are responsible for how we operate in life also…….and stay off CL!

This didn’t turn out delicate…..but I hope others gain a lesson here in my point!



RIGHT sister! Boy, did I learn the hard way.

CL is another word for DANGER.



I agree that online social websites provide a place for dysfunctional people of all types to thrive. Craigslist Killer?! There are certainly nice people there too, but I think there’s a high percentage of dysfunctional ones. I joined a dating website against my better judgement (besides the potential for creeps, it’s just not for me-not my style at all) at the urging of my therapist, who thought I needed to “get out there and date again” to help break the bondage to my ex. I went on two dates before cancelling the membership. I don’t want to kiss any frogs to get to the prince! If that means never finding the prince, so be it.

But while I was still a member, and communicating with a few of the guys that responded to my profile (you know, the one where you go through the whole matching process and then communication-supposed to get you matched to your perfect potential mate), there was a guy that seemed really nice for a while. According to him, he was a single dad who just adored his children and a successful business owner who just couldn’t meet anyone to due to living in a small, isolated town. He wanted to go out on a date, but we lived a couple of hours away from each other, had busy work schedules, were both single parents, etc. We hadn’t worked out the details yet. After a while, he started dropping bombshells on me and acting like he’d already told me: he was a former alcoholic, and he was still paying his ex’s bills because she was a ballet dancer and hurt herself and he’s such a great guy (that one was a ridiculous story with all kinds of details that didn’t add up). Anyway, each time he dropped one of these whoppers casually into the conversation, I said, “Wait, what? You never mentioned that before.” And he acted slightly offended while he tried to convince me that, yes, of course he’d told me from the beginning. Red flags were going up, and I got rid of him right away! He tried to keep contact as “friends” who could be supportive of each other as single parents. NOPE!

I’m not knocking anyone who wants to try online services or has been successful with them, but for me, I choose not to make myself available in an area where I know sociopaths and dysfunctionals lurk.


Lorna, I liked your story – how it was written, what you communicated about how you protected yourself.

There is, one piece that doesn’t speak to self care and self protection – being physically intimate with someone you didn’t know, when you had already seen a lot of red flags.

I know that each of us is built differently (as to where our boundaries are with physical/ sexual intimacy), and i know i was much easier with who/ when i shared my body in my early 20’s, but i would advise people not to get physical when they have seen red flags.

I hope you don’t feel criticized by this – it’s not a criticism of you; you did a good job of taking care of yourself and extricating yourself, but i think you had blinders on in this regard.

Lorna, thanks for posting that wonderful story. It was great reading, and while I was reading it, I kept ticking off the red flags. I’m glad you got away from him. Congratulations.

It’s easier to see when it’s someone else’s life, or maybe when you’re looking at it after the fact, but I think these “red flags” are really something else. They are tests. These people are testing us. For our generosity, for our willingness to do what pleases them or serves them, and ultimately for our tolerance level, especially our tolerance with things that either make us uncomfortable or are clearly not in our best interest.

And, of course, the reason they’re testing us is to figure out whether we can be “had” in whatever way interests them. (That’s why one of my main defenses, when I think I may be targeted by a user, is to make myself “expensive” as a target, rather than easy.)

It’s interesting that the tests became a lot more blatant on your picnic trip with him than they had been before. And thank heavens you were pretty assertive all through this. Before this day, you did some things that I wouldn’t have. But I’m pretty conservative (post-spath) in my dealings with men I don’t know very well. But looking at this from a spath perspective, you already showed that you were willing to pay for things, take care of him, and basically carry the weight.

I also had a craigslist experience recently. I was visiting the site, looking for comparative prices on a travel trailer I need to sell. I saw there were personal ads, and I looked into them from curiosity. To my surprise, I found a man my age in the next town who was just looking for a conversation buddy, someone to talk about religion, politics, etc., with no relationship expectations otherwise. I love to talk about these things and so I wrote him a note.

It was an interesting and really creep experience as long as it lasted. His side of our correspondence started with how brave I was to respond to an ad on CL, then declarations of what a trustworthy and nice guy he is, then wanting to know what I wanted to talk about. All this in response to my intellectual and (I thought) amusing letter. I wanted to wow him, and I wouldn’t have answered the ad if he hadn’t sounded smart. A letter he completely ignored.

After a few back-and-forths, while I was trying to figure out WTF and he kept asking what I wanted to talk about, he informed me that I didn’t want to meet him in person and he thought we should have the conversation by e-mail. Need I add that, by this time, I’d done a little Googling and discovered he was a self-employed housesitter and also offered computer training services to old people who couldn’t figure out how to set up their e-mail.

In the last letter I sent him, which he didn’t answer (thank heavens), I told him that he might think it took courage to answer an CL ad, but I thought it took courage to show up. Because we have to leave fantasy land and discover the reality of who we are in person. And if he doesn’t have that much courage, I have more e-mail friends than I need already.

What this guy a spath? Well, it would be easier to tag him just a sad case. But you know, he was intending to use my precious time without giving me what I really had in mind. Which was getting out of the house to meet him at outdoor cafes or local parks where where we could get some sun, argue about how to change the world. So spath or not, he gets the same treatment. Either he fits into my plans and ideas of how I want thing to work, and hopefully contributes something to enrich them, or he goes away.

Boy, am I different than I used to be. I used to be interested in fitting into other people’s lives, caring more about whether they liked me, maybe thinking that I could learn something about living from them.

Now, I’m more conscious of whether someone is going to be a drain on my resources. I do give to charitable causes, but I don’t do it with people who are pretending that this is a relationship.


They definitely test us that is for sure. I just didn’t think people consciously did all these things. Seems to me like it would take a lot of energy to always be “testing” someone. I must have passed the test because toward the end he told me that he could see himself with me. At the time, I was really flattered, but much later down the road I realized he thought he could see himself with me because he probably thought I would be an “easy” wife…someone who would allow him to get away with a lot. I don’t know.

But I am craving him today. I don’t like that. I am keeping busy to divert it, but it’s not easy. He’s just in my head and will not go away, but that’s been forever now…not sure when it will ever go away. Don’t worry, I won’t contact him. I’ve gotten this far. I am not going to turn back now.


I don’t crave those mierdas.

I’m definitely anti-psycho and by-products, i don’t find them attractive anymore…Don’t know what has happened to me but there’s one supply less for them in the world. 🙂



I agree…I also do not find them attractive anymore, but I guess because that one put a spell on me, I am sure if I saw him, I would still be attracted to him. But any new ones would never have a chance with me. I would hope though that even if I saw this one I would no longer want him.



I’m not attracted anymore to the ex “romantic” psychopath. I distrust him deeply. I know what i could expect from him. No, there’s no room for attraction anymore. Also take into consideration that in my case is more than a year i haven’t seen him, so i don’t miss him at all. I don’t miss his nonsense, manipulation and gaslighting



Good for you!!!! Yipppeeee!!! I know I will get there. The longer I have no contact the closer I will get to that memory fading.


🙂 Yes, time helps but also helps very much the knowledge and acceptance of what they are. The memory fades also if one accepts those memories can’t be repeated in reality. Once the mask falls it can’t ever be the same. But we gain wisdom and maturity. We become more realistic, which is good, and we can even keep the good memories of them. After all it is not their fault if they were genetically predisposed to be deprived of deep emotions, but they’re simply not compatible with us.



I agree. It takes all of those things coming together to finally forget about them and to accept it.



Yes, and you’ll even keep the good memories, which were real. But accepting that a project for future is not possible with any of those emotionally under developed creatures. LOL

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