Lovefraud received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call “Lorna.”
I thought I’d write and tell you a success story, thanks to all the information you provide to help people to survive a sociopath.
I’ve met them at various times in my life, however, I was lucky that I never married or got pregnant or lived with one. A couple of years ago, one crossed my path, and in a short time caused a lot of disruption before I dumped him. I pretty much forgot all about the narcissistic sociopath since then.
I wanted to watch the Will and Kate wedding live, but didn’t have TV, and on the West Coast it would be shown at 3 a.m. I posted on the activities partners section of Craigslist hoping someone was planning on being up to watch, and might let me come join them. I was surprised to get an email from a man, with whom I exchanged emails and phone calls before I felt comfortable going to his place to watch the wedding.
I made chocolate covered strawberries and brought a bottle of champagne, and he had some too, so we laughed and had a wonderful time staying up til dawn watching the wedding — competing on who knew the most wedding trivia, etc. I had a blast, so did he, or so I thought. He was 14 yrs younger, worked part time as a baseball umpire, had a bright and witty mind, and was a total gentleman. We ended up snuggling a bit, and even kissing a little.
I wasn’t going to chase him, so I did send a quick email letting him know I got home safely, I left it up to him to reach out to contact me for future dates, if he wanted. A week went by. I finally got an email telling me he’d been out of commission as he’d pulled muscles in his back. I took him dinner and a heating pad and massaged his back. I waited another week before he contacted me again, which I thought was a bit strange. We emailed and planned to go for a hike at the ocean to his favorite place.
Previously, he had told me he was a confirmed bachelor, and he had “been played” by some gal a year before, and his feelings were evidentially hurt over that break up. He made another comment I didn’t quite catch, however, I think he said if I got too romantic he’d just end the relationship. Huh? I didn’t understand.
Hike to the ocean
The day came for us to go on our picnic hike to the ocean. I was to meet him at noon at his place. I had misplaced my keys and was running about 10 minutes late, so I called and got his voice mail to let him know I was on my way. When I arrived, he pointed to his watch and let me know I was late and he has a “thing about that.” Hmmm, kinda uptight, I thought to myself. After all, I did call and left a message. It wasn’t as if we were going to a concert that started at a specific time. We had all day, and what was 10 minutes? I was on “observe and take mental notes” duty, as I’d learned to watch for signs from the very very beginning, as people will give plenty of clues as to who they really are if you take off your blinders and stop making excuses for people.
My next clue came when he drove like a maniac, and made me uncomfortable tailgating. My telling him so and asking him to slow down only helped a bit when I pointed out he had 364 days a year to drive as he wished, and this one time to consider me. He did slow down, a bit, but when we came to a very curvy section of road I asked him to take the easier detour so I wouldn’t get car sick, and he refused! Ok, now my alarm system was on full alert. I was getting too many clues of his selfishness, and little comments he made to upset me. He even noticed something about me he said he could use to “push your buttons.” I didn’t think highly of that, either! Instead of being comfortable in his company, I was becoming quite wary. He seemed to take pleasure making me squirm. Not good.
We arrived at the beach, went on a bit of a hike to get there, and he helped me up and over these huge boulders on the beach. However, he wanted to be out on the edge where huge waves were crashing up on the rocks. He stood out there like a crazy guy, and I could see he was addicted to adrenalin. I couldn’t keep up with him and didn’t want to. I was getting tired, and yet he kept pushing me to go further and further, though I knew if I did I could fall and hurt myself, and told him so. HE wanted to go further, so we did, and that was that. I just made more mental notes realizing how selfish and somewhat antagonistic I found him towards me. I actually should not have been climbing on those rocks, I’m 64 years old and have had knee surgery, but he pushed me and said he didn’t drive all that way not to see it all. Eventually, we left to return towards home.
He had originally suggested we go to a local seafood restaurant for some clam chowder, but now that it was time to do so, he changed his mind and we drove back towards home. He did stop at a taco wagon that is parked in the grocery store parking lot and got less than $10 worth of tacos. He did make a point to pull out about eight $20 bills and fanned them in front of himself as he was paying for the tacos. He let it be known he had the $ to eat in a real restaurant, but instead here we were sitting at a picnic table in a grocery parking lot eating $1.50 tacos. Mind you, I’m not a gold digger, and I had brought food for the picnic. I eat at that taco truck myself from time to time. It was just the way he did this felt more like he was intentionally avoiding spending any money on me, and not keeping his promise to go for chowder as originally planned.
“Bad boy”
After we got back to his place, he didn’t help off load any of my stuff to put in my vehicle. He just gathered up his own and went up to his apartment leaving me to do my own. Once I did, we watched TV for a while, then he started kissing and it was warming up. I was about to stop it to leave when he came out and made a comment that after a while of a relationship going along nicely that he “likes to mix it up” and will let his “bad boy” come out. He said he would do things like cancel plans with me at the very last minute because something he rather do came along.
I told him that wasn’t a problem as long as he gave me enough notice to make other plans so my time wasn’t wasted. He said no, that it would be at the last minute, and why shouldn’t he go do something he liked better? I thought about it for a minute, looked back over the times I’d been with him, especially all the signals he had been giving me throughout the day, and I realized what I was dealing with. I figured out I was with a selfish brat narcissistic, probably abusive, and I felt like he was trying to set me up to expect less of him. Once I had him pegged, I instantly knew I had to get out of there immediately and have nothing more to do with him.
So, after taking in his bad boy comment, I replied back to him, “You wouldn’t do that with me if you ever wanted to see me again. Thank you for the warning.” I stood up, went over to where my car keys were sitting on a table, picked them up, went to the front door and left. I walked out on him and never looked back. I know he wasn’t expecting that! For once in my life, I had my eyes and ears open, didn’t believe a word he said, watched his behavior and believed that, and when the picture emerged, I didn’t waste another minute trying to change him or hope for the best. I just got out before any damage could be done.
In retrospect, I realize he was sizing me up to see if I took any Rx, had any jewelry and money, investments, where I lived, etc., and assumed I had $$$. He picked the wrong person! I know I’ve not heard from him either as he realized I really don’t have anything to offer him, and I’m certainly not going to have anything to do with him anyway.
I wish I had used my head in the past, but at least I did this time. I am grateful for your website for helping to ID a sociopath and pay attention to the signals. Also, the most important is to know not to get involved in the first place, because you cannot change the person and he’s not anyone you should have in your life anyway.
So, I dodged a bullet and the info on your website helped me to do just that.
That’s awesome! Good job spotting~ I’m sure he didn’t call because the last thing a psycho wants is someone who catches on to them. Standing up to him & walking out was also another reason. He is obviously looking for someone he can walk all over and he knows you’re not that person. At least he came out & let you know what he was looking for. Most of them just pretend to be someone else until you’re so caught in their trap it’s tooth & nail to get out. Again, I’m so glad for you!
Thank goodness for Lovefraud! The education we get here is invaluable, but it’s sad that we have to go through hell before we find our way here. I wish I knew then, what I know now!
I can’t believe how naive/stupid/blind I was when I met the nutjob.
On our first date, he couldn’t take his eyes off the waitress, couldn’t pay, farted all the way back to the car (I know its childish but can’t stop laughing at that!) and ran out of petrol on his way home. I drove 9 miles and paid to fill his car, needless to say I never got the money back!
That was just the beginning.
Well done on looking after yourself and getting out before any damage was done!
Lorna, thanks for sharing this. Good for you. I’m so glad you walked out his door and never looked back! I’m sure you saved yourself a lot of pain and frustration.
I am pondering why he would tell you about his bad boy side. What were his motivations? It’s not like his bad-boy behavior is particularly attractive or coveted. Most normal women would do as you did, and walk away.
Was this a test? He was weeding out the type of woman he didn’t want. He didn’t want someone who would expect decent treatment or who would demand respect. He didn’t want someone with a strong sense of self, who would defend her boundry or who was able to say “No”.
In short, he wanted someone who was willing to be abused.
Who is more willing to be abused then untreated trauma survivors? Is that why trauma survivors unwittingly find themselves repeating their trauma’s? Also, interesting to note that shame is always a factor in trauma and trauma bonding. By his telling you how he would behave, he was already testing you for the requisite charictaristics of the trauma bonded partner. If you agreed, he not only would have made you miserable, but he would have the go ahead to do so, and he would feel nothing but contempt for you, and it would be your fault! You would internalize this and feel SHAME. Perhaps a part of you would agree with him. There goes your already shakey self esteem.
There would always be drama. He would occasionally toss in a really good time, but then immeadiatly dash your warm fuzzy feelings with more dissappointment and a sense of dispair. He would thrive on building you up, just to let you down. The proverbial roller-coaster ride through hell.
I guess my point to all this is this: He told you how he would treat you to increase your shame and there-by insure that you would trauma bond.
I’m pretty sure he has never heard the term “trauma bond” and I’m pretty sure this is all just par for the course, in his mind…it’s just the way he is, and all that rot, but it’s so calculated and it is so great to have the knowledge and the ability to recognize it for what it is. Yay!!!!!!! Lorna-1 Spath-0
“Lorna”,
Thanks for sharing your story with all of us!
YOU ROCK! Now THAT is how it is done!
Waste NO time letting them spin their webs.
Get up and get away; they are a bomb about to explode and when they do, whoever is in the general area or vacinity is going to end up in a hell. WHY? All because we care? No, these people are askew in their logical thinking and just consider it rudeness and get away because the rudeness eventually leads to destruction of all whom gets in the way of what they want.
Yes, Kim: ‘trauma bond’; hurt you to fix you. Yes, I know that plan well. Unless a person has lived this experience, they would have no idea of the dynamics we are speaking of. But, let me tell you this: if a relationship starts out in the beginning and it already has problems; if you meet someone who gives you the thought ‘hey, this aint right’, BELIEVE IT. Your senses are telling YOU SOMETHING!
Get away and move far away.
After everything I have been put through with my x sp, he actually had the nerve to try getting me in bed the last time he was here. He was being very cruel, mean, degrading, FOR NO REASON OR PURPOSE, other than he can. His new girlfriend is so jealous of me that she has turned x p against me and against everyone in his life.
If she is not careful she is going to end up in a spot she doesn’t wish and I tried to warn her. She didn’t believe me and it is all I can do. She is as bad as HE IS and isn’t it a scarey thought to know there is a couple out there, increasing the gene pool of consciousless? I mean, cold-blooded with no regret nor conscious.
If a ‘relationship’ starts out askew,it is always going to remain that way. It starts out by subtle controlling; then steps up to ‘extreme controlling’; then the shouting, then the shoving, then the threats and you need to remember they have no sense of ‘control’ about themselves. The only control lever they have is THEIR WANTS & NEEDS. And, it’s not even that so much as it is a compulsion that they follow and we think they should be able to choose to be different but I am convinced they really can’t help themselves but that is no excuse nor reason to put yourself and your life in any danger whatsoever.
“LOVE” has been painted in the same colors as the white picket fence, the dog in the back yard and the station wagon….we all want to believe we will find that love and bond and affection and we always look for the best in most people when MOST PEOPLE , let me say NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE wish the best for us.
I can’t explain nor define the importance of NC and keeping it up once you make that break.
I spoke with a forensic psycologist regarding my situation and was told an excellent piece of advice and I totally believed him and this is what is inspiring me:
“You need to get far far away from this person or he will destroy you. He will harm you. He will hurt you. Get away from him. No contact; ever; for any reason. Once you are gone and stay quiet, he will forget about you and move on to his next victim.”
Chilling; isn’t it? Yes. Absolutely.
Take extra precautions with yourself and what you do.
Dealing with a sp is an ever changing pattern and you think you have been shocked, THUS FAR…
Remember that what you saw is only the tip of the iceberg.
Yes, sp use conditioning to make you do what they wish.
The ‘rabbit hole’ goes really really deep.
I am so happy you got away!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t look back. Keep on truckin “Lorna”~!!!!!!!
DUPED
Wow, Lorna! That is so awesome you stood up to that creep and got away! I just soooo wish I had done that instead of falling in love like a fool. But there is nothing I can do about that now. I can only refrain from letting it happen ever again. I was also lucky to never marry one, live with one or have children with one. I need to thank my luck stars and God for that. It is so true that they don’t want strong women like Lorna. They want the weak ones they can control. I saw evidence of that in my situation. I was the stronger one in the triangulation; the other one was much weaker. She even told me so herself; told me I was much stronger than her. It was true and guess who he chased more? Her of course. She was easy. He even told me that he didn’t know anything about me…he didn’t have any ammunition to use against me. She is like an open book and has diarrhea of the mouth…she was giving him all kind of clues as to what he needed to do to use her. To break her down.
DUPED:
I have experienced what the forensic psychologist told you…that if you go away and stay quiet, they forget about you. They do. They go onto their next victims. Notice I said victims and not victim. Sad.
Good job on seeing the warning signs for exactly what they were and getting away before too much damage was done.
The testing to see what you will accept, the truama bonding, I wish I’d known about those before I met my ex! I saw/felt the warning signs about my ex and did not respond to his advances at first. I had no desire to go out with him, thought there was something “not right” about him. I guess this was a challenge, so he pursued me until he found out enough information to deceive me more effectively, and I fell for it. It ended 13 years later after mental/emotional/physical abuse, secret bank accounts and women, and saying he was going to kill me. This was my second husband. My first husband was dysfunctional too. I don’t know if he is a sociopath, but he had a secret, hidden life going on behind my back. The only boyfriend I’ve had since the divorce was shady, too. Now I haven’t dated in two years. I don’t know if it’s even worth it. I have to figure out what it is about me that makes me a target and causes me to buy into their manipulations. Of course, now I think I am hypervigilant when I even think someone is manipulating me. It really freaks me out. These people can really do a number on you.
On the flip side, I’m out and I’m living a relatively peaceful life now. By that, I mean that I have to deal with ex’s socio-behaviors due to having a child with him, but at least I don’t deal with him every day like when we were married. I just wish there was more education for people to know about warning signs and that sociopaths ARE out there around us. It’s so hard to deal with others not understanding what I’ve been through, thinking it was just a bad relationship.
Pay attention to those red flags! We are so apt to accept people no matter what they do, to trust them when they explain everything away. Trust your first impressions and instincts and get out of there before they get you hooked.
imust:
Thank you for that awesome post!!
I got away from the clutches of my 2nd spath & he tried to kill me.
I met him exactly one year after my ex-spath husband deserted me. This was one year before I met my current 30 year spouse.
I used to walk by a construction site early in the morning on my way to work. The guys used to be out there working and everyday when I walked by they’d whistle.
One guy caught my eye and seemed to be particularly attracted to me. He was very sexy and often had his tee-shirt off exposing a gorgeous muscular chest. He had the Marlborough man look. Rugged and sexy. You know the kind with the mustache.
I was still grieving my divorce from the spath and hadn’t stepped back into the dating world.
Anyhow one day he stepped forward and made his presence
known to me and introduced himself.
I was really stand-offish after coming out of my divorce with the spath but at the same time I was overcome by his good looks.
We talked a while he walked me over to a nearby pond and wooed me. After we talked a while he made a date to take me out to dinner which I accepted.
So he came to my apartment and picked me up. We went out and he told me how he had escaped from the Iron Curtain.
He had a very sexy Eastern-European accent.
He told me how he had escaped with 2 other men and they had to cut through 3 fences with wire cutters to make it to freedom. All the while guards were shooting at them. They made it out alive. This was in the early 80’s before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
We finished dinner which was very pleasant and when we made it out to the parking lot a woman corned us and started screaming at him. Apparently she had followed us to the restaurant and waited outside to make her entrance.
She began screaming at him and swearing.
I was very nervous. At this point I didn’t know if I was dealing with another sociopath or a love-struck stalking woman.
This was my first red flag. But I was also optimistic and thought I’d hang in there for a while and test the waters.
As time went on he made other dates with me and everything appeared normal.
Then one day a totally different woman showed up at my apartment with her mother. She told me she had been dating my East European boyfriend for over a year and he had promised her marriage. She also told me he was dating her at the same time we were going out. I then began to confirm my suspicions I was dating another spath.
It was at this point I decided to get out before we got in too deep. We had been dating about 3-4 months.
I made a date with him where I decided to call it all off.
Anyhow we got together and I didn’t give him my exact reasons but I told him I thought it all out and thought we should cool it for a while. I told him I was still reeling from a bad divorce and didn’t want to set myself up for another hurt.
He asked me if Lidia and her mother had gotten to me.
I asked him, “how he knew?”
He told me Lidia told him she had confronted me.
Anyhow he accepted this and we walked away from it amicably or so I thought.
About one week passed. I was living in a rooming house with other tenants. I was sharing a 2nd floor flat with a couple other people. One night I thought I heard someone in the kitchen. The two other people I was living with were out for the night. I was alone. I called out my two roommates names and no one answered so I got up and looked into the living room. The door was wide open and no one was there.
I even walked out into the street to look. I didn’t find anyone but I swear someone was in my apartment that night and it wasn’t my other 2 room mates because I questioned them the next day. So it had to be an intruder.
Anyhow from then on I made sure the apartment was well locked.
Another week went by and one Saturday morning I awoke. I got out of bed and felt a strange heat. I thought it was unusually hot but it was also a July weekend.
So I went back to sleep. At around 8 or 9 in the morning someone was knocking on my door screaming, “wake up, fire, fire. My God wake up.”
This time I was home with one other roommate. The apartment was completely engulfed in black smoke. I could barely breath. I tried to get out the front door but the apartment was engulfed in flames. I got out the back door. No time to take anything. By the time I got downstairs I remembered Jimmy one of my roommates was asleep in the other bedroom. By the time I got downstairs the fire department was there. I told them which bedroom Jimmy was in. They broke a window and had to get a latter to get him out. Jimmy survived but he had inhaled a lot of smoke and needed an oxygen mask.
I lost everything in that fire, my clothes, furniture and everything I owned up until that time.
The fire department told me someone had removed the smoke detector from the apartment and the fire was of suspicious origin and looked like it had been set.
I then remembered the week before when someone had broken into my apartment. It was probably at that time the smoke alarm had been disassembled.
Anyhow I strongly suspected my Eastern European date but of course I couldn’t prove it.
I never saw him after that. I left the area and went back home to my folks to live. I met my current husband a year later.
Then in the early 1990’s the Iron Curtain fell. One day a woman & her daughter came to my apartment. It was my Eastern European’s ex-wife and daughter. She wanted to meet me. I wasn’t really interested. This was about 10 years after the fire. I had never told my husband about him. But he knew of my ex-spath husband. Luckily my husband was at work. She asked me if she could come in and talk.
I reluctantly agreed but I wanted to see if she confirmed my suspicions and sure enough she did. I was dealing with another spath when I met her ex-husband.
She told me of her life in Eastern Europe and how her ex-husband ran around on her with woman after woman.
She told me he divorced her for another woman who was carrying his child. Shortly after they married he tired of her and wanted a divorce. Her family threatened to kill him so he managed to escape his country taking two other fellows with him to cut threw the fences. I told her he told me that story.
I told her about the strange unexplained fire that happened and how I had my suspicions. She told me in her country he was known to set fires also. After a while she left. While she confirmed my suspicions I hoped she didn’t show up again.
I had moved on with my life and ten years had passed.
I had two kids with my current husband and didn’t want him to be involved in my past. I wondered what would happen if I alerted the police and fire department to my suspicions.
Ten years passed and I decided to let sleeping dogs lie.
It’s been 30 years since both episodes with two spaths.
I’m happily married and pray that God keeps my remaining years on this Earth peaceful. I look at my beautiful family I have now and count my blessings every day. I truly believe God sends us these experiences as lessons in our life. This way we can guide our own children. My parents never prepared me for life’s evils and the unexpected. Hopefully my own kids will be more prepared through my guidance.
Joanie
Lorna,
GREAT JOB!
I think it was a TEST to see just how much sheet you would put up with and if you put up with what he had already done (rudeness delux) then he would have upped the ante and gotten right down to “the brass tacks” of out right ABUSE….
I think when someone SHOWS us what they are we need to BELIEVE THEM, and you did!
TOWANDA!!!! Good for you! You get a GOLD STAR chickie!
Lorna, Donna has taught us in the beginning they give clues about themselves. This is how the game begins. Some people are clever enogh to pick up on that. For others it takes longer until it’s too late. I learned after my first experience with a spath. But at that time there was no Lovefraud.
I am so grateful for Donna setting up this site to educate men and women about sociopaths so folks who have never played the game know what it is all about.
When bad boys start talking about their dark side that is a dead give away. I bet chances are you met him through a dating club or the internet. In spite of the fact sociopaths are a tiny percentage of the population they tend to be enmass
on the dating sites looking for victims.
It’s good you recognized what he was and got away before the damage was done.
Blessings,
Joanie