Lovefraud received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call “Lorna.”
I thought I’d write and tell you a success story, thanks to all the information you provide to help people to survive a sociopath.
I’ve met them at various times in my life, however, I was lucky that I never married or got pregnant or lived with one. A couple of years ago, one crossed my path, and in a short time caused a lot of disruption before I dumped him. I pretty much forgot all about the narcissistic sociopath since then.
I wanted to watch the Will and Kate wedding live, but didn’t have TV, and on the West Coast it would be shown at 3 a.m. I posted on the activities partners section of Craigslist hoping someone was planning on being up to watch, and might let me come join them. I was surprised to get an email from a man, with whom I exchanged emails and phone calls before I felt comfortable going to his place to watch the wedding.
I made chocolate covered strawberries and brought a bottle of champagne, and he had some too, so we laughed and had a wonderful time staying up til dawn watching the wedding — competing on who knew the most wedding trivia, etc. I had a blast, so did he, or so I thought. He was 14 yrs younger, worked part time as a baseball umpire, had a bright and witty mind, and was a total gentleman. We ended up snuggling a bit, and even kissing a little.
I wasn’t going to chase him, so I did send a quick email letting him know I got home safely, I left it up to him to reach out to contact me for future dates, if he wanted. A week went by. I finally got an email telling me he’d been out of commission as he’d pulled muscles in his back. I took him dinner and a heating pad and massaged his back. I waited another week before he contacted me again, which I thought was a bit strange. We emailed and planned to go for a hike at the ocean to his favorite place.
Previously, he had told me he was a confirmed bachelor, and he had “been played” by some gal a year before, and his feelings were evidentially hurt over that break up. He made another comment I didn’t quite catch, however, I think he said if I got too romantic he’d just end the relationship. Huh? I didn’t understand.
Hike to the ocean
The day came for us to go on our picnic hike to the ocean. I was to meet him at noon at his place. I had misplaced my keys and was running about 10 minutes late, so I called and got his voice mail to let him know I was on my way. When I arrived, he pointed to his watch and let me know I was late and he has a “thing about that.” Hmmm, kinda uptight, I thought to myself. After all, I did call and left a message. It wasn’t as if we were going to a concert that started at a specific time. We had all day, and what was 10 minutes? I was on “observe and take mental notes” duty, as I’d learned to watch for signs from the very very beginning, as people will give plenty of clues as to who they really are if you take off your blinders and stop making excuses for people.
My next clue came when he drove like a maniac, and made me uncomfortable tailgating. My telling him so and asking him to slow down only helped a bit when I pointed out he had 364 days a year to drive as he wished, and this one time to consider me. He did slow down, a bit, but when we came to a very curvy section of road I asked him to take the easier detour so I wouldn’t get car sick, and he refused! Ok, now my alarm system was on full alert. I was getting too many clues of his selfishness, and little comments he made to upset me. He even noticed something about me he said he could use to “push your buttons.” I didn’t think highly of that, either! Instead of being comfortable in his company, I was becoming quite wary. He seemed to take pleasure making me squirm. Not good.
We arrived at the beach, went on a bit of a hike to get there, and he helped me up and over these huge boulders on the beach. However, he wanted to be out on the edge where huge waves were crashing up on the rocks. He stood out there like a crazy guy, and I could see he was addicted to adrenalin. I couldn’t keep up with him and didn’t want to. I was getting tired, and yet he kept pushing me to go further and further, though I knew if I did I could fall and hurt myself, and told him so. HE wanted to go further, so we did, and that was that. I just made more mental notes realizing how selfish and somewhat antagonistic I found him towards me. I actually should not have been climbing on those rocks, I’m 64 years old and have had knee surgery, but he pushed me and said he didn’t drive all that way not to see it all. Eventually, we left to return towards home.
He had originally suggested we go to a local seafood restaurant for some clam chowder, but now that it was time to do so, he changed his mind and we drove back towards home. He did stop at a taco wagon that is parked in the grocery store parking lot and got less than $10 worth of tacos. He did make a point to pull out about eight $20 bills and fanned them in front of himself as he was paying for the tacos. He let it be known he had the $ to eat in a real restaurant, but instead here we were sitting at a picnic table in a grocery parking lot eating $1.50 tacos. Mind you, I’m not a gold digger, and I had brought food for the picnic. I eat at that taco truck myself from time to time. It was just the way he did this felt more like he was intentionally avoiding spending any money on me, and not keeping his promise to go for chowder as originally planned.
“Bad boy”
After we got back to his place, he didn’t help off load any of my stuff to put in my vehicle. He just gathered up his own and went up to his apartment leaving me to do my own. Once I did, we watched TV for a while, then he started kissing and it was warming up. I was about to stop it to leave when he came out and made a comment that after a while of a relationship going along nicely that he “likes to mix it up” and will let his “bad boy” come out. He said he would do things like cancel plans with me at the very last minute because something he rather do came along.
I told him that wasn’t a problem as long as he gave me enough notice to make other plans so my time wasn’t wasted. He said no, that it would be at the last minute, and why shouldn’t he go do something he liked better? I thought about it for a minute, looked back over the times I’d been with him, especially all the signals he had been giving me throughout the day, and I realized what I was dealing with. I figured out I was with a selfish brat narcissistic, probably abusive, and I felt like he was trying to set me up to expect less of him. Once I had him pegged, I instantly knew I had to get out of there immediately and have nothing more to do with him.
So, after taking in his bad boy comment, I replied back to him, “You wouldn’t do that with me if you ever wanted to see me again. Thank you for the warning.” I stood up, went over to where my car keys were sitting on a table, picked them up, went to the front door and left. I walked out on him and never looked back. I know he wasn’t expecting that! For once in my life, I had my eyes and ears open, didn’t believe a word he said, watched his behavior and believed that, and when the picture emerged, I didn’t waste another minute trying to change him or hope for the best. I just got out before any damage could be done.
In retrospect, I realize he was sizing me up to see if I took any Rx, had any jewelry and money, investments, where I lived, etc., and assumed I had $$$. He picked the wrong person! I know I’ve not heard from him either as he realized I really don’t have anything to offer him, and I’m certainly not going to have anything to do with him anyway.
I wish I had used my head in the past, but at least I did this time. I am grateful for your website for helping to ID a sociopath and pay attention to the signals. Also, the most important is to know not to get involved in the first place, because you cannot change the person and he’s not anyone you should have in your life anyway.
So, I dodged a bullet and the info on your website helped me to do just that.
Joanie:
Are you the one who posted the link about the Nephilim? I have been reading about it since and I may be crazy, but I think all the spaths could be descendants of these creatures. Am I losing it?? I am a Christian and not sure I should be thinking this way…oh, dear! 🙂
Yes dear. I posted about the nephilim. I too am a Christian and believe they are the descendants. Did you read about the nephilim gene. Supposedly we all carry this back from the Garden of Eden. The Nephilim infected the human race when they mated into us. The gene remains dormant in most of us but when particular sets of people mate and it runs strongly in their family line a “sociopath” is born.
I’m not the only one who thinks like this. If you read the web many other folks believe this and so do many of the “sociopaths.”
I’m an empath and under the guidelines of modern psychiatry empaths and vampires(sociopaths) don’t exist and are fairytales. However independent folks in both the medical and psychiatric professions know these folks exist through their years of experience and seeing these patients.
These stories are deeply routed in religion and mythology but remember this. To every legend there is basis in fact.
One has to ask themselves why are these stories in the bible and in the legends of the Greek myths. Why were some of the dead sea schrolls omitted from the Christian bible can their be a purpose to this? Maybe the church was hiding man’s true origins from humanity.
In any event the legends are out there and these folks seem to fit the mold of the nephilim. It could be that over time when they inbreeded into the human race they adapted and took on more of a human appearance. I’ll go more into this in other posts as time goes on. For now I’ll introduce these myths little by little. You can judge for yourself what you believe. Some people may believe this and others not.
But with my emphatic abilities and what I’ve sensed from these people’s auras I’m a firm believer.
Joanie
nola has a brand new name!
Joanie: Idk if I really believe about the Nephilim gene, although I agree it’s in the Bible about sons of God having children with daughters of men. It made me have a strange thought. My ex is unbelievably strong. He is a big guy (6’2″ and over 200 lbs.), but I’m not a small woman (5’7″ and 165-170). He could literally throw me across the room to the point where I hit furniture or the wall, even when I was heavier than I am now. He could easily keep me trapped in a room. I would try like heck to get away from him to no avail. I’ve even dated a very muscular mixed martial artist and wrestled around with him for fun, but I’ve never come across another man who is as strong or as quick as my ex.
And I wasn’t the only one who experienced his strength and fighting skills (without any martial arts training or anything). He and his brother enjoyed telling the story of where my ex’s face and scalp scar came from. My ex’s brother supposedly started a fight with some thugs at a convenience store, then ran inside while my ex fought and beat the crap out of all four thugs, one of whom had a knife. It sounds like a lot of bragging on his part, but believe me the stories could go on and on. Everytime we ran into one of his old friends and they reminisced, these types of stories came up. Once when we were standing in line to buy tickets for a comedy show, a drunk (or maybe high) guy in the line kept picking on one of the guys that was with us. He kept making rude comments and just wouldn’t stop. My ex suddenly turned, completely picked up this grown man (not a small guy either), I mean totally up in the air-feet off the ground, slammed him down on a brick planter, and put his thumbs in the guy’s eyes. It happened so fast, I can’t even explain how unbelievable it was. I grabbed his arm and begged him not to gouge the guy’s eyes out, because I thought it was really going to happen. He did stop short of that, thank goodness.
Anyway, his strength and fighting abilities are something he has always been known for. I thought it must be because he was totally without fear (which he is), but who knows.
Louise, I concur with you. I’m a Christian and not sure I should even think about it!
Hi Everyone!
I’m Lorna. You just read my abbreviated post of my most recent experience with a spath. I’m new here, obviously. Nice to meet all of you! Wish I had this data in my earlier years when I was quite pretty, young, lively and oh so gullible!
I agree with all you posted. I think the key is learning to look for clues and not make excuses right from minute/day one! Also, pay attention to how you FEEL, especially about yourself and in your gut. Instead of getting all giddy about having a new man in your life and all the possibilities, it’s better to be in OBSERVATION mode and make mental note of all the clues you get from the start.
I actually came home and wrote down the signals I had gotten in my short time with this spath. We need to teach people to pay attention and heed those signals, and do so immediately instead of getting in deeper. Also, do NOT go to bed with anyone until you are absolutely sure you are in a genuine loving relationship.
I am a survivor of abuse from growing up with a controlling father and a violent older brother who sexually abused me. I had no sense of self worth until years later when I got into counseling. My therapist told me to look for signals right away, they are there, and to pay attention. She said these will only become MORE SO over time, and sure enough, she was right. But I didn’t really know what signals, and how subtle they could be.
The first thing I noticed was that he kept interrupting what I was saying, and I didn’t get to finish my train of thought. He turned conversations back to what interested HIM, and mostly about himself. I didn’t pick up on that right away as a clue, but I did notice this happening.
My #1 GOLDEN RULE is that MY welfare and happiness must be a very high priority for my partner. So, as this date to the ocean took place, he kept breaking that rule over and over – in little ways – but still, the evidence was undeniable. In fact, he seemed to intentionally push my limits. These were the clues I was observing, the comments with little ‘digs’ in them that were petty insults to push my buttons, the driving irresponsibly even after I asked him to slow down or change the route, pushing me to climb and exert myself in a dangerous manner at the beach, trying to get me to go out to the edge of the rocks where the HUGE waves were crashing and where many people have been swept out to sea and died (but he went out there all the while goading me to join him), etc etc etc as I originally posted. My list of clues became quite long when I actually wrote them down! In every instance, he was NOT caring about my well being, and most especially when I asked NOT to do something, then he did just the reverse. He was testing me then to see how compliant I was, I’m sure.
The bottom line is not to ignore the clues and to get out immediately. The biggest mistake we have all made was to think it will get better and stay, or to ignore and stay, or to think we can inspire them to change (that’s the funniest of all!), or to get our ego involved and think we can be so wonderful they will change to please us (hahahahah!), etc. I took my therapists advice and accepted the clues for what they were and just got out.
Yes, I think he was testing me. He was also setting me up to be forewarned that he was turning into a jerk and not to complain when he started behaving badly – “I told you how I am….”.
He never asked about my family, my friends, what I was doing when he wasn’t around, what I like to do for fun, if I had any siblings, where I grew up and so forth. Talk was mostly about HIM. When I did mention something, he seemed not to be interested at all, and switched subjects. He was interested to know about anything that he might want to take from me such as my financial status, what kind of work, where I lived – I never gave him my actual address – only the town I live in which is an upscale community, he observed the quality of my jewelery, car I drove, etc. Oh, he shared with me his income, work, where he lived, etc., and I am sure he did so to make me comfortable telling him the same about me – which I did NOT. He never did find out my address, and he cannot trace me here, either. I know he won’t as I don’t have what he wants anyway.
Educating people to the clues and the importance of heeding them is truly, in my opinion, the most valuable in helping people avoid getting sucked in. Thank goodness for LoveFraud!
Meanwhile, it’s wierd how someone like that can quickly get under your skin. Even though I got out within a month of meeting this person, and only having been with him 3 times, the good times at first ‘stuck’, and it has been hard to not think about him. It must be like taking heroin – totally addicting – if you are not aware what is going on and you stay.
Ok, so fast forward, my curiosity kicked in, so I did some checking up on him. I know how to do that pretty well, and maybe I can help others in that regard. I had to go to our county offices this week to get a document on file, and while there I did some research into this spath. Anyone can do this, and I suggest you do for anyone you might want to include in your life. I do advise you do this very early on.
First, go to your county Sheriff’s office and look on their public database for any criminal records. Here, it’s computerized, and the computer is right outside at the reception desk. I put in his name and discovered a DUI from 3 years ago. I did note that he completed all his requirements from the court – on time, no less. So he is still functional in that regard. I didn’t find anything else there.
Then, I went to the County Recorder’s office and did the same on that computer. Bingo! I was able to find out he had lived with a woman for a number of years – not married – and they owned a house together. It kept going in and out of foreclosure – and this was back in the 90s. Imagine the roller coaster ride that must have been! They eventually parted ways as she took over the house and later married someone. She still lives at this house, and I got the address and did a drive by; cute place, actually. I bet she has some stories to tell about him!
I have not yet gone to the county office where you get marriage/birth/death data, and I have not yet been to the Bankruptcy court to do a data search there. But you can and should do all of the above. This works if you spath is local as these are only county-wide searches.
Back in the late 80s after Fatal Attraction had been out about 6 months, I met a guy who tried to sweet talk me, and I just had a feeling he was married. He wouldn’t give me home phone or address, only his weekend vacation house in the area where I’d met him. So, I went to the county where he was from and did the above searches, as well as went to the divorce court and got those records, and I did discover he was married. The assessors office gave me the address where his property tax bills were being sent, so I checked out that place too at the recorders office. His homes were on title with both his and wife’s names. I did more reasearch, and then let him take me out to dinner.
We went to a really nice place, and I ordered almost everything on the menu! (Appetizer, soup, salad, expensive main course, expensive wine, dessert, after dinner drinks,. etc) When we got back to his place, he was sweet talkin me saying he was going to take me away for a weekend and yada yada yada…..so I asked him what “Dorothy” (his wife on record) would think of him taking another woman away?
Long and short, I had him cornered. Unfortunately, he stole $200 from my wallet when I used the bathroom. Anyway, I let him know I was on to him and left. Years later, he is now in jail for bilking neighbors and investors out of $1.75 million.
AGAIN, get out immediately when your clues add up. Compare all said and done to my golden rule. NO exceptions.
AND NO EXCUSES for their behavior! Remember, Actions speak louder than words. HEED these points and take your time.
It is better to be alone that to be with the wrong man. Pay attention from the start and act accordingly. Thanks for all your comments!!!
Hugs to all,
Lorna
To Imust and others,
In regards to dealing with a strong spath if you think you are in physical danger and he won’t let you get away, here’s a tip.
Keep a can of WASP SPRAY in your house where you can get to it immediately. Rather than using a gun, Wasp spray is a better alternative. At least it will give you time to get away. It will shoot out at least 20 feet ahead of you, so they won’t get near you but will be disabled giving you the extra seconds you need to escape. It’s good to keep a can by your bed, one in the kitchen and one near the front door and one in your car. It’s cheap, and you can get it at most large grocery stores or hardware stores. Check that out!
Oh, also, AIM FOR THE EYES.
Lorna
Good safety tips Lorna. We should always pay attention to our surroundings after NC. Not obsessive about it but aware. With a spath, you never can tell. One minute they could be loving you and the next trying to murder you. All in the flash of a moment. Don’t be lured into thinking in the silence, they have forgotten you because they always come back. Always. NC is the only way to guarantee they don’t. I understand how difficult it is letting go and trust me, the conscious portion is the one they heavily rely upon to keep you sucked in.
Spaths don’t like being upstarted.
They don’t like being TOLD anything where they aren’t the one’s doing the telling.
They don’t like hearing the truths because their souls are dark and they hide from the truth.
Be careful ladies and gentlemen….
Spaths are the new alien race on the planet and it’s being promulgated by our societal lack of virtues.
God bless all.
DUPED
Dear Lorna,
Glad you are here, and glad you approve of the wasp spray, I also like oven cleaner if you can get the kind that squirts out the TOP of the can not the side like hair spray….but wash spray is good as well.
Your suggestions about checking someone out are well taken too….
From your story about the wild ride to the beach I would have been afraid of that jerk as well….
Again, welcome to LF and glad you are here…also glad that you have a good vision of the RED FLAGS as well! Keep save!
INSTA-SPATH!
I think what they do is, they make YOU out to be the abuser because you don’t play by THEIR rules — which, of course, they make up as they go along. Honestly, I did a complete ethics check and found no history in myself of sending ordinary people off cliffs of expectation and anticipation. Really. Just people like this.
I’ve met quite a few variations on the story above. I hope these aren’t the kinds of people that the posters here date and marry. They’re too obvious. “Insta-spaths.” Quickies. Geez, they don’t even give you a couple of weeks of fantasy before they grow fangs. The second date is usually when they do it. I’ve had ones that wait until the third one, but that was when I was YOUNG, darlings.
My last insta-spath was in the summer of 2009, when I accepted a road trip and sailing invitation from someone in Europe. Yeah, Europe. We have many mutual friends, so I chanced it, knowing he would have to save face before all of them before crossing me. He tried it anyway.
After a few unmistakeably abusive incidents, I just shut down. Then he opened it up, like, “We should talk about this,” and boy, did I. I told him I was never, ever talked to or treated the way he did the night before. Well, then, he said, what was my general impression of the trip?
I said, “gratitude.” No kidding. “Thank you for the trip,” I added with a smile as I watched the lovely French countryside go by from a new Mercedes-Benz. (Tacos??! You settled for tacos?! LOL.)
Then why wouldn’t I treat him nice? After all he’d done for me? CONSISTENCY.
You see, these people like writing little scripts and watching people play them out consistently. I sincerely enjoyed my trip. And I hadn’t let him truly or dangerously abuse me. I took what I wanted, and walked out on what I didn’t like. Brat that I am.
Come to think of it, that was the same protest that the guy I left at 50th St. and Lexington Ave. one night gave me. I did this, I did that, I “led him on,” blah blah blah, and here I was, abandoning him, what a brat. I told him over drinks I wasn’t sleeping in a hotel with him, I told him in a cab on the way to a “bar,” I told him when I didn’t notice a bar in that hotel we went to, I told him when he was checking in on his credit card while I laughed with some Greek tourists in the lobby, and I told him at the elevators. Last time I told him no means no, I was walking out the door, calmly, on his $500 mistake. (Incidentally, he called me a year later, when I came up on the rotation apparently, saying it had been a while, he wondered how I’d been, etc. He thought it had gone “rather well,” he said. What was he hoping for this time? The date-rape-defense baseball bat?)
Just kidding about the “brat” part. But it’s fun to play the brat. Change up the script, girls. Be a brat. Spoiled. Yes, a golddigger, for 20 minutes. Just because someone called you something, doesn’t mean that’s what you are. What you are is someone who DESERVES HAPPINESS AND WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES.
Exclamation point.
You’re worth it.
I’d like to mention if you go to archives.com you can look up marriages and divorces. Often times spaths move from state to state so their past doesn’t catch up with them. Often times it’s difficult to get records from various states.
There’s also a criminal data base that will hook you up with their various state records but I’m not sure how to access that. Maybe someone else who’s done it can tell us how it’s done.
I couldn’t investigate my ex-spath husband back in the day because most people didn’t have internet but boy when it got hooked up what I found was a gold mine. But be that as it may it was years later and what good was it to me now.
As I mentioned in another post the only thing I could hope to get out of it all would possibly be an annulment but at my age I wouldn’t go for it.
Lorna: You mentioned how he made you walk over the rough rocks by the water and how you felt like you could have fallen in and got swept out to sea.
I can remember when I was married to my ex-spath my kids from my first marriage were very small. At the zoo we passed the lions cage. There were two fences separating the lions from the visitors. One fence was a big one that enclosed the lions. Then there was a smaller one about 2-3 ft. high in front of that. That was to keep the people out.
At the zoo my ex-spath husband started to lift my little boy over the fence. I said, “what are you doing? Do you want him to get hurt?” He said, “I want him to take a picture directly in front of the lions cage?” I quickly grabbed my son from his arms and said, “are you nuts?” “Why do you think they have 2 fences separating the lions from the people?” “It’s to keep the lions from mauling people!” After that I was shaking and ex-hubby spath told me he was only joking.
Yea right, joking my arse. Either he was serious or he wanted to get a thrill out of me. This fits in with the emotional roller coaster ride and if someone get’s damaged or killed in the process Oh, well………….
Joanie