Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a woman who we’ll call “Trista.” She tells her story of being dismissed with a shrug.
I met the man who has been my husband for 30 years in a language school. He was serious, but could be funny, a bit shy, but also had a way with words. He had beautiful eyes and lots of girls were in love with him. I was no exception, but it was me he chose to go out with.
The relationship soon took off and we were a pair. Those first days were good; I had no idea I was dealing with a sociopath. When I took him to meet my mother, however, when things were very serious between us, she said that she thought he needed some “help.” I dismissed it.
I did realize how quickly he took offense for the least of things, and how quick he was to respond with offensive words to other people. Soon after we married I started to see more and more of his temper, that other people called a “short fuse,” but it was still directed to others, not to me. My time would come.
Controlling the money
My S was very controlling with money, getting angry even if I bought him a present that he thought cost more than I could spend. He continued to control me through money for all those 30 years, never allowing me to go to the supermarket on my own, not giving me money to any expense, and having screaming fits if I did anything like taking the initiative of paying for a small cheap portrait of our infant daughter. My friends and family thought him “odd,” and because I was so afraid that some people would do or say the wrong thing near him and trigger a terrible scene, I started avoiding most of my friends. We lived on our own with our two small kids, and provided that I would not ask for money or invite people who could get him in a mood, life was sort of ok.
Church was another problem. As a Christian, I was used to church life and he was brought up in a Christian environment as well. However, we could not be in any church together. Something would happen, something the preacher said or that other people said would trigger his horrendous fits of rage. I used to be terrified in church, paying attention to where the sermon would lead in case it would touch some subject that he would find offensive. I remember real terror while in church, till the last time he stormed out of the building and verbally attacked the pastor at the door. I never went to church with him again, but I also could not go alone, in case he thought I did not think him fit to go to church. This would cause even more problems. In the end I gave up church altogether, but not my Christian faith.
Holidays on his own
In the middle of the 90’s he started going on holidays on his own, to countries in Europe. I was never invited, not thought of, as I stayed behind to look after the house and teenagers. I don’t believe that he had one minute of doubt about the propriety of a married man in his 50’s going to holidays alone every year. I decided not to say anything.
I was still very scared of confronting him about anything; his rages were severe and I was scared because his eyes would change to look like glass when he was angry. He would scream not to touch him, to get away from him and his eyes would go big and glazed. Once when he was driving, somehow something we said got him in one of his tempers and he drove with fury near getting on the pavement, and barely missing a lady and a child. My daughter was in the car with me and we both thought we would die as well. He had no control over himself. A bit later on he started breaking things, like the Christmas tree, ornaments, and also pushed me against a table, I bruised my ribs and had to go to the hospital next day.
He got a job as a teacher in a University. He can somehow give a good interview and charm others, he is intelligent and cultured. Later on, when they see the problems, it is usually too late. His boss has already commented on his “glazed eyes.”
In love with Poland
As part of this job, he got a trip to Poland. When he came back, he was a man completely taken by the Polish life and people, in such a way that I can only describe as sick. My house immediately became full of Polish ornaments, his friends became only Polish people, he became obsessed by them, in the same way he became obsessed in the past by other cultures like the South Americans, the Russians, the Orientals. He had “phases” when he only talked and walked around people of those cultures, now it was the Polish. I knew it well, but could not foresee a new developement: He “fell in love” with a Polish boy.
Read more: High-energy sociopaths – 5 reasons why they just keep pushing
I was away for some weeks visiting my family and when I came back there was something different about him. He had bought a mobile phone, was using it every minute, and hiding in the garden to talk. I also got an email he passed to this boy and it was a complete sop, an email a man writes to his girl. I got the phone number of the boy, went to talk to him, who was only 20 (my S is 57) and did not know about the situation; he had a girlfriend! It was in my S ‘s mind; he interpreted friendship for another thing. This boy was his former student.
The S in my life even said after being discovered that he needed the excitement and when I pointed out the absurdity of a 57 married man who is a grandfather chasing a 20 year old boy who is younger than his son or nephews, he simply said “he had no one for him,” meaning, “I did not have to account for my actions to his family, since he has none.” He continued to behave in the most shameless manner, telling our friends that he was in love with a boy and alienating our friends even further, telling his family that both him and my son had Polish people in their lives (because my son had had a Polish girlfriend). He even asked me why I thought that I was God’s will for him and not that boy. I was speechless.
Mask slipped
From them on I argued with him for two years about the impropriety of such things, the absurdity of it, but he denies having done anything. When I talked to the boy I was made aware that he had invited him for a weekend trip and I got it just in time. He tried to blame me for his actions and denies having done me any harm or the children. However, our family is in tatters and I have filed for divorce with the support of my children. I have seen a counselor, who also saw him and he told me to leave him and that he has been cheating on me all my life. This boy was not the first one, but now the mask has slipped. Interesting enough, other people have used that term to refer to him, my friend said she always saw him as having a mask; my brother said that “his plug fell.”
At the moment he is still denying the boy was more than friendship, even after the fact that he took our wedding ring off and told me he was not married to me, didn’t want me, didn’t love me, and cried like a baby for this boy. I have all the evidence; he still denies it and makes me feel I’m somehow to blame. For two years I went nearly crazy because of his faulty logic, his coldness, his shameless deeds. He still denies that he has done wrong.
He has no remorse, no thought of me or the children about it all; he considers himself a good Christian who goes to church every Sunday but never learns anything. He said that when he did it (about the boy) I never entered his mind.
I’m now nearly divorced and have nothing else to do with him. He is still involved with the Polish, and is dressing up as a 20 year old himself, walking with groups of young people. My son is ashamed of him and my daughter says she hardly knows him. He couldn’t care less for me, his wife of 30 years. I was dismissed with a shrug.
Learn more: Comprehensive 7-part recovery series presented by Mandy Friedman, LPCC-S
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: The most important one-liner you will ever hear
Height of Confusion,
Im not sure what you are seeking here at LF. I havent read alot of your posts, so maybe I will go back and see what it is Im missing.
This is a place for healing and growing and learning and finding respite from a S/P/N/Bad Person in our lives. I may be wrong but you dont seem to be looking for any of that here.
If you are just looking for a place to vent and share your experience as a person who has no intention of leaving a dysfunctional relationship, Im sure some of us here will be able to lend advice, support, guidance. But again, Im just not sure what youre looking for. You said you have no intention of leaving him.
I just personally find it hard to support a dysfunctional relationship that someone knows she is in and is knowinglyu and willingly wanting to take on whatever he tosses her way – up to and including knowing he could off on a potential rage – you would be stuck there. And you want to keep making constant effort to keep you two together.
Its usually the opposite here at LF. So I am a little perplexed and hope someone else may shed light on what Im missing. I do wish you safety, security and happiness in your life – through healthy relationships. I think youre a bright person – just confused and caught up in the chaos like so many of us were. The difference is once I became aware (yet while I was involved in it – I wasnt nearly as aware as you are about how bad it is) but once I became aware I sought help to get out and stay out. So Im having trouble relating to this.
learnthelesson
I guess I’m not so sure what I am looking for either. I suppose I am just happy to have found a group of people who know and understand what I am going through (it amazes me how much I have in common with so many people here and how similar the exsperiances are)
I suppose a place to vent is part of it as I’m sure you all know how upsetting the situation can be – being with a man like this.
But yes your right, I am not planning on leaving him. I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now. People keep telling me I will reach the point one day when enough is enough – and I do really hope so but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going.
HOC –
Thank you for your explanation. I was a bit confused. I wish you the best. Im glad you are here simply because something might connect with you someday thats just strong enough to give you the strength you need to get away from a dysfunctional relationship if you so choose to want to. Im not sure how much you actually hear or process here – but it is true we have all been in a similar experience.
Many of us land at LF because we want clarification of what a Sociopath is, what he does, what a dysfunctional relationship is …I think your posts will be helpful to others in that regard…and Im praying so many insightful experienced caring responses will be helpful to YOU as well in that regard – when you are ready to do what so many people here have done in your experience — came out from denial and faced reality.
Stay safe and thank you for sharing your journey
Height:
I think I speak for all of us in this: We are concerned about you. What you’ve written here is truly frightening.
Speaking for myself only, I have to wonder…*If* you are depressed the adrenaline and tension from living with someone/seeing someone with a known past of violence toward women can over-ride the depression…
It can take the focus off of yourself and your own problems and issues.
I speak from experience…being around a ticking time bomb had its (drama filled) appeal…I lived like that. It served some purpose at the time…and it was by far one of the stupidest and most self-destructive things I’ve ever done.
I posted above about a guy I got involved with when in my early 20s and how that went. What I didn’t mention is that his ex had contacted me and told me how he’d beaten the hell out of her. She was in the hospital for weeks.
I believed her. I didn’t think she had any agenda at all other than to warn me. But…I still thought he wouldn’t hit *me*–
and yeah, he did. He’d also passed the “time limit” I had in mind–i.e. if he was going to beat me, he would have done it by now.
I “really couldn’t see it happening” either.
There’s nothing exciting or interesting about, say, having your jaw broken. Or worse. But the thrill and excitement of danger? That’s another matter.
I should have taken up sky-diving instead…
If you’ve been totally honest with your therapist about this guys background and she isn’t telling you to stay away from him, I think you should find another therapist.
It’s really sad to hear you are actively pursuing a “man” who beats women. For your sake I hope he remains cold and distant–very, very distant.
And I hope you ask yourself: what am I getting out of all of this?
Heightofconfusion,
It seems, by what you write that everyone senses the danger of this man except you. Certainly your mother does. The “someone” you mentioned that knows him quite well and gave you the warning. All of us here at LF know he is a danger just by his background.
The general information that you have recieved that you will leave when you have reached a point of “enough is enough”, is sufficient when it is in regards to a NORMAL “not so good” relationship.
The problem with that for you is that this man is dangerous. He is CAPABLE of harming you. His past confirms that.
And it doesn’t matter if he is angry or distant or indifferent or depressed or whatever his mood of the moment is. You can’t change his moods or his past. When he SNAPS, he will snap no matter what you do. You can’t change him.
No one here or anywhere else can make you see what you don’t WANT to see. Any more than you can “change” him, no one can change you or make you see the light, if you refuse to see it.
I am glad that you have found LF and you can come here and vent. At least that is something. Maybe someone can find the right words to trigger you to GET AWAY from this man before it is to late.
I am also glad that you are going to therapy. However if you have told her the TRUTH of your relationship with this man, you need to find another therapist. Because any therapist that had the facts of this man wouldn’t tell you what your therapist told you.
That is why I told you to write it down in a journal and bring it with you.
You said:
Not posted anything as I have been with hm all weekend (he actully didn’t cancel on me)
It was ok we didn’t even fight over the past few days which is good. He was however pretty cold and distant (I’m wondering if he is suffering from depression)
He kept saying all weekend that we would go out tonight or tomoorow but it never happened ”“ he said the same about tonight but I doubt I will see him.
I don’t see anything positive in this weekend you spent with him:
It was ok.
He was cold and distant.
He promised we would go out, but didn’t go out.
He promised to go out tonight, but doubt I will see him.
What do you see when you read that in black and white?
A better question really is. WHY do you stay. WHAT do YOU GET from him?
Camom asked this question also.
Try and tell us what is keeping you in this relationship.
HeightofConfusion:
“I am not planning on leaving him. I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now. People keep telling me I will reach the point one day when enough is enough ”“ and I do really hope so but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going.” How well I know that song. You can read all about my day at the rodeo with my S-ex in my December 2008 posting “Criminal Defense Attorney Falls for Sociopath.” Yes, even I, who thought he knew it all and saw it all managed to get conned by an ex-con. I went through 15 months of unparalleled hell .
As I re-read my original posting what jumped out at me are the recurring themese that you cite — S-ex being my world. My doing everything I could to keep the relationship going. The chronic exhaustion.
Yes, I agree that you do have to get really clear on just what it is you want. Yes, I do agree that you have to reach the point of “enough is enough”. What I think you really need to ask yourself is this: what is it exactly I am getting from this so-called relationship?
Is it sex? If that’s the case you’re getting so little emotional satisfaction from your S, I seriously suggest hiring a good rentboy — he’ll treat you really well and you’ll come away satisfied.
Cynical? Not really. At the end of the day everything in life is quantifiable. Everything boils down to dollars and cents. What I came to realize with these non-human vehicles of discord is that you make a 100 percent investment in them and get 0 percent return.
Or is that you think you see some good in him that nobody else does? If that’s the case, let me tell you that the good ship HOPE has sailed and sunk. The sad fact of the matter is that a person’s personality is pretty much set in stone by the time that they are a late teen/young adult. My S-ex used to cry on cue about how hard he was trying to go straight (in the criminal, not sexual sense). How he always paid his debts. How he didn’t tolerate infidelity and been unjustly accused of it by his exes.
Know what? It was all bullshit. He had a criminal record. He had 15 creditor default judgments against him and 3 more pending. He cheated on me so openly that friends sent me i-phone photos they snapped of him in action. It was all a lie. What I saw was what I got. I just didn’t want to believe that.
Or is it that you are afraid of being alone? I now see that was a big one for me. I tolerated all his crap because I didn’t want to be alone. And so I paid — both emotionally and financially — for the so-called pleasure of his company. I was his ATM. I paid his rent. I paid for every date. I paid for vacations. I blew through over 100 thousand bucks in a year. For nothing.
Because know what? At the end of the day I realized I had never felt more alone in my life. That was one of the worst feelings I ever felt.
Sit down and fold a paper in half and make a list of what you get out of this relationship versus what you give. Then make a list of every awful, hateful thing he has ever done to you and a list of every good thing he has ever done for you. For me, it was seeing it all down there on the page in black and white that finally got my thinking clear.
And then do what you have to do to drive this creature out of your life once and for all. In my article I said “to get rid of a sociopath, become a sociopath.” You have to view this as a fight for scarce resources — your sanity, finance and health. You must go NC. And you must develop really clear boundaries which when he breaches them there is a consequence.
You still have friends who are willing to listen to you. By the time I drove S-ex out of my life, my friends were so sick of hearing about him that I swore I would have to crawl over miles of broken glass on my bare stomach to win them back. I didn’t have to go that far, but I also realized I had to make some hard life changes.
And that’s what you have to do. Change isn’t easy. After I drove S out of my life, I then lost my job. It’s been a tough year. But, after I got clear on what I wanted, I proceeded to meet a really wonderful man and my life is so much better than I could have ever imagined 16 months ago.
As for your therapist, I agree with CAmom — if your therapist doesn’t get it, find one who does. Mine let me drown for 15 months, listening to me babble week after week about S-ex and his problems and what I was trying to do. When I finally realized I was dealing with an S he said “well, I suspected as much.” I blasted him telling him that he had an obligation to point this out to me. So, I am a firm believer that if your therapist doesn’t get it, find one who does.
Sorry if I sound like I’m busting your chops and coming down on you like a ton of lead. There is so much of you in your postings that I see of myself, that I, like everybody else here who has been down the path, wants to realize that nothing is going to change with him. Absolutely nothing.
The way I see it is get rid of your S and change your life or stay with the S and lose your life. Your choice.
Height of Confusions previous answers to our questions…
“surely they can’t all remain loners for their entire lives? I don’t know I guess thats part of wjhy I try so hard. I can accept that he will never have any real feelings for me and would leave me if something better came along but maybe if I just try a bit harder, love him a bit more, get things right, make sure everything is as perfect for him as I can ”“ it will at leaset keep him arounf as long as possib;e””
“But thats really not by biggest worry just now, my biggest worry is him leaving me ”“ i honestly don’t beleive I’d cope.”
“But yes your right, I am not planning on leaving him.”
I would love to be able to but I know I’m just not strong enough. He is my world right now.but right now my energy is all going into keeping the relationship going”
after rereading – Im sensing its easier for H-O-C to focus on anything but whats going on with her, her past, her fears, her truth…in order to function and keep going – H-O-C focuses on him and everything about him including the false hope that goes along with him.
I apologize for not seeing that earlier…for not getting where you are in the unhealthy cycle of a bad relationship. I remember having to get to a place of desire to get out ON MY OWN. As you will too. But you have to want to care about yourself, want to love yourself before him. We all had to get there to get it.
HeightofConfusion,
I’ve read your posts, and I think there’s something wrong here. This blog is used for mutual support among people who are healing from these relationships. And everyone here has attempted to support you. But you don’t want support,and you don’t want to heal. You don’t even want to leave.
But that is not the really disturbing part. The worst of this is that you are escalating the danger in your relationships. You haven’t said what your family background is, but your tolerance for abuse and your pattern of going back into dangerous relationships after each previous one bought you to emotional breakdown suggests that you come from a history of abuse. And whatever help you’ve gotten, you are not recovered from that.
In this relationship, from everything you’ve said, it appears that you’ve found someone who may kill you. His history of violence against women, as well as extreme violence in general, the warnings you’ve received, the locked door that would make it impossible for you to escape, your awareness of all this and your idea that your happiness (or whatever passes for it) depends on not being abandoned by a man you know doesn’t care about you, your ability to put two and two together and refusal to act to save your own life … well, this is beyond scary. It sounds like suicide by relationship.
Virtually everyone on this site has been in the horrible addictive loop of relationships with people who don’t care about us. Some of us, including me, have lived with them long enough and been through enough pain that our greatest hopes have been just to not be hurt anymore. We’d given up on anything like love. So you’re not alone there.
But all of us maintained some some spark, someplace inside ourselves, that we were worth more. That we deserved better. We were hurt by what was going on. We didn’t lose our awareness of that. We had resentments, even if we didn’t feel brave enough to voice them. We had some kind of relationship with ourselves, even if they were full of self-hatred because of what we were doing to ourselves.
So my question is why are you doing this to yourself? Is this the best you can imagine for your life? When you look around you, or watch television, or read a book and see relationships that are based on kindness and respect, is there something about you that disqualifies you for anything like that? Why are you not worth more than this?
I’m sorry if this sounds mean. But your story is just plain scary. I don’t think there is a soul who’s read your posts here who would be surprised if we heard you were in the hospital or dead tomorrow. And I think that all of us would remember you as someone who is sleepwalking toward this fatal destiny.
There has to be some part of you that is still fighting for you. Some part of you that banging at whatever door it’s locked behind, saying wake up, wake up!
You are in danger. I don’t know how to put it more clearly. You’re on a countdown right now. Every minute that goes by brings it closer. If you’re lucky, he’ll dump you and you can go through your next emotional breakdown. If you’re not lucky, he’ll keep you until he destroys you.
When you’ve figured out that your life depends on getting out of this relationship, and figuring out why you’re in all these relationships, your life will change. But right now, you’re scaring everyone who cares about you.
Maybe you’re imagining that if your situation gets bad enough someone is going to rescue you. But that’s not going to happen if you don’t ask for help. The first one who has to rescue you is you.
Listening to you makes me realize how hard it must have been for my family and friends when I was going through this. They kept trying to save me, and I kept pushing them away. I finally wised up when I realized I was going to die if I didn’t get out. But you’re in more physical danger than I ever was, and you’re pretending that you can handle it. You can’t. The only control you have over this situation is getting as far away from him as fast as you can.
Kathy
And HoC,
If that sounds too harsh, I apologize. I know you’re young, and you’re still trying to figure out how to live. I’m not trying to make a case for you being a bad person. I suspect that you deal with those fears, without me adding to them.
There’s is nothing that you’ve done and nothing that’s been done to you that keeps you from starting over. But you do have to stop this trend. Because you won’t survive it.
You deserve better. You’re a valuable person. Whoever gets your love and caring should be a person gives love and caring back to you. If someone in your past trained you to believe that it was pointless or dangerous to ask for anything for yourself, that training is wrong. It doesn’t support your survival, your happiness or your ability to create a life that means something.
If you don’t know how to do that, if your background didn’t teach you that you are valuable, and that you have rights and entitlements, and that you deserve to be treated with respect and compassion, that’s a good reason to be in therapy. But it’s also a good reason to stay out of relationships until you are better at taking care of yourself.
I know that’s hard. Especially if you believe that no one really cares about you. But there are other ways to have people around you. Clubs, churches, support groups.
Whatever is going on with you, you’re not going to fix it through a romantic relationship until you are capable of taking care of yourself emotionally. It’s good you are in therapy. If your therapist doesn’t understand that your problem is abusive relationships, you should probably find one that does.
I wish you well. Please take care of yourself.
Kathy
HOC…
Matt and Kathys posts pretty much sum it up from every angle possible. I hope something in there somewhere reaches you…
Lastly you shared that while you hadnt heard from your Mom in the weeks he was away – low and behold you hear from her when he returns — via a phonecall that went unanswered – and made her frantic with worry that something might be wrong.
I dont know what took place between you and your mom prior to his incarceration that kept you both from speaking to eachother…but girl you have someone who is still there for you and reaching out to you who cares about you and wants you to be ok… your mom. Some girls no longer have that person (their mom) there for them because their mom had no choice but to let go and give in to a strong negative (evil ) presence shaping and taking over in their daughters life.
Dont let that be you. You have a choice.