Editor’s Note: The Lovefraud reader “PressEject” has written several insightful Letters to Lovefraud about his involvements with sociopathic men. You can read them here:
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 1)
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 2)
Pulled in by the child in the sociopath
As a bisexual person, PressEject was most recently romantically involved with a woman who also turned out to be disordered. In this post, he compares the two experiences.
By PressEject
There was absolutely NOTHING in her emails that asked me to find with her (together) some kind of understanding or resolution. Instead it was like she was writing the script for everything, forgetting another person might have a view different than hers. I let her write it, I stepped back. I was not being asked for anything, so no hard feelings in not responding luckily (other than the overall regret and unease from falling into this sticky web.)
As someone with a bisexual past, I am now a person who has dated both a male S and a female S. I can tell you that their (non-gender reliant) destructive qualities and personality traits have some remarkable similarities:
1. They both got upset if they didn’t get what THEY want.
2. They both played “the victim” if something was held from them that they wanted.
3. They both tried to use guilt (or gaslighting) to make me do something they wanted.
4. They both had “back up” plans in case I “didn’t work out.” He kept his secret, I remembered his behavior and then asked her if she had a “back up plan” and (surprise!) she said as a matter of fact “yes!” (ouch!)
5. Both would become aggressively frustrated when their views were challenged. (I learned to challenge them the second time around!!)
6. Both “excelled at marketing themselves.” Both were fairly fearless in social settings.
7. I am the one who was blamed for any problems, not them. Could not be criticized.
8. Both were capable of very SHORT-TERM regret. (deceptive practice that I was able to keep my guard up against the second time around.)
9. Lack of real empathy, some amount of fake or obvious empathy that could be gained by them when it was explained to them but not forthcoming if left to their own devices (which was most of the time!)
10. Neither showed any sense of guilt when exposed for their hurtful insensitivity or selfishness.
11. Mixed signals… running from very hot (passionate sexually) to complete cold, left in the dust, see you later.
12. There was an eery void “behind the mask,” both revealed what I consider to be unconscious deficits of self-esteem. In time, these were revealed (his were more hidden but could be characterized by a “shy, humble” view of himself contrary to his predatory conquests, hers came out in logically chaotic emails when she wasn’t getting something from me). Oddly, they would spew this out from time to time but neither seemed to be aware of how it caused them to act, so in this sense it seems like an unconscious awareness they always carry.
13. Both were impulsive in the moment, decisions were made quickly almost randomly.
14. Both broke off the relationship suddenly and without warning!
15. Both would from time to time obsess over something they had no power over that caused them stress.
16. Neither seemed concerned if I was ever hungry or thirsty. If they were, then I might be also.
17. When any kind of problem was presented to them it was met with a quarrelsome and defensive posture, neither were willing to work productively to solve a problem with me together. Since they didn’t see anything as broken, there was nothing offered to fix it.
18. Both showed a need to control conversations and social settings. Both often relied on an “outgoing” and “larger than life” personality to achieve this.
19. No real or deep thought-out values. During my second experience, I attempted to find out what was behind multiple opinions (often self righteous opinions held against others) and why these were formed. I found very little under that shell. Instead, to avoid any real thought effort, the questions might be easily turned around and handed back to me.
20. Both would announce, not discuss, both would tell, not ask.
21. Both eventually would reveal they were on the lookout for something “better” and not wanting to settle.
22. Both regard relationships as interchangeable. If I don’t meet their needs, someone else will.
23. Both expressed that they often felt misunderstood. (I wonder why!)
24. Both could at times easily discuss THEIR feelings but never mine.
25. A pervasive sense of humor they both shared was found at other people’s misfortunes.
26. Both gave me odd little presents at the beginning. I believe these to be impulsive purchases, not much real thought went into them it felt like.
27. The lavish flattery… I was to star in a pin-up calendar, I was the smartest guy ever, so accomplished, the best they had ever had!! (uh, how many have you had!!??)
28. Both indifferent about core qualities of healthy relationships: real love, caring, commitment, loyalty.
I started that list last week as I tried to gain my sanity back… It helped!! Perhaps it would be helpful to share with others.
I am still in “relationship recovery” it seems. I learned about three and half years ago I have a blind spot for this kind of behavior. The Lovefraud site helped change my life! I have a developing awareness now that I have a weakness (or blind spot) that I am working on in mistakenly letting relationships propel quickly past emotional involvement right into physical intimacy. With the “S” this can happen easily I now know.
I will be working harder to be careful, to value myself more and not act as impulsively as these predators. I will also pray. I sense that I have suffered with low self-esteem for a long time in my life, luckily, I have a tool to help me out of this. It is love. I know it has to be love and less fear running my life. Love from inside me to build me up, to help me express this in healthy ways. I am determined now more than ever to keep on this path. I will feel less empty and I will keep growing.
Dear Press eject,
Thanks for sharing this “view from both sides now” and I agree with you….the self centered views of the psychopath (by any name) are the same regardless of race, color, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, …etc.
I think your determination to keep on the path of learning to love yourself is an excellent one, and as you mentioned the “blind spot” is one that I think many of us have had and we allow the relationships with these people to propel quickly past “getting to know you” into physical intimacy which is the “hook” that allows them to implant that hold into us….those of us that bond with physical intimacy, which they really aren’t capable of doing.
Thanks for your articles, and for your most insightful posts. Glad you are here.
Dear presseject ~
Thank you, I enjoyed your perspective, interesting. You said you started the list last week and it helped in your recovery process. I agree, sometimes writing things down and looking at them in black and white gives us a clearer picture.
Did you notice that female spaths are more vindictive?
Jeepers creepers! This list NAILS the spath I knew to a cross. (no offense meant to Jesus, etc..).
I have met different ‘kinds’ of spaths. Some very intellectual and ‘ivory towerish’, some plain stoopid, aritistic, some reserved and quiet.
But these types, the one’s I have also had a blind spot with. They are the big personality/sexual types. They embarrassed me in public, just being around them. They were loud and boisterous, overly attentive and flamboyant. But they also, in the past, seemed so unflappable to me. I think I kind of wanted what they had. They also were the most similar to my mother. They were the overtly narcissistic ones, who did nothing to hide their grandiosity.
By comparison some of the other spaths I have encountered I wasn’t ‘really’ taken in by, but I could feel the pull and the underlying tactics were the same, they were just executed more ‘quietly’. But I didn’t have an attraction to them- they couldn’t sneak into my ‘blind spot’. I wasn’t using them to re- enact my relationship with my mother, trying to get her to value me.
Boy oh boy. Good list Press eject! Thanks.
`Slim
wow press i was slammed when i read your list, i have blown it up and printed it to put on my wall, i wish i could have seen this 4 years ago, and thank you for the honest comparison doenst happen much around here
I stopped by to see if there was any discussion of the various recent public scandals, from Herm Cain to coaches molesting boys but much of this posting certainly resonates so I can’t help but comment.
In particular: “his were more hidden but could be characterized by a “shy, humble” view of himself contrary to his predatory conquests…”
My ex spat on various websites describes himself as “shy” and “modest” but actively posted videos of himself on Xtube.
“..would announce, not discuss, both would tell, not ask…”
“…broke off the relationship suddenly and without warning…”
Exactly.
“Neither showed any sense of guilt when exposed for their hurtful insensitivity or selfishness.”
Or used blame-shifting back to me.
Hey, BBE! Glad to see you back!!!
Yea, old Herman seems to have gotten caught with his pants down, and down and down and DOWN!!! I think they are more than past his ankles, and Newt is on what, his third or fourth wife? Can’t remember how many. Not sure what the deal is with politicos, they don’t seem to be able to stay solid with one partner…or even two. LOL
As for the coaches and other pedophiles, they seem to be coming out of the wood work….news is all about teachers and coaches all over the place having sex with the students/kids, or trying to, but my hope is that the Sandusky thing and the Fine thing will make schools more aware that they will be caught with their pants down, and maybe even lose their jobs or be prosecuted for not standing up and DOING WHAT IS RIGHT!
How ya’ been?
Ox;
Thanks. I took a certification class and now I am studying for the exam. Also been networking…
A common and relatively undiscussed aspect of all these cases is that the initial reaction by all parties (or institutions) was very similar and completely disingenuous. As such, one needs to discuss the “conventional wisdom” of their legal and public relations advice, particularly in the case of Penn State, where all involved parties should have been placed on administrative leave.
Regarding Cain, I simply think he is such a Narcissist that in his mind he has never done anything wrong!
Yea, him and all the rest of the politicos and CEO big shots and highly paid coaches are ENTITLED….I won’t even bother listing the names….LOL
Oh, well…hope your exam goes well!
Thanks. Its early January so I have time…
I wish I knew the answer to reign-in the “entitled”. One interesting approach, raised in Europe, is a financial transaction tax. For the average person, this is no more than the fee for buying or selling a stock ($10 per $10,000).
However, it really diminishes high frequency trading and derivatives, which are based on low profit percentages but on very, very large amounts.
A very simple law with far-reaching effect. in fact, many say we need to change regulations in this country from complicated “what you can do” to simple “what you cannot do.”
Thus, while it would be difficult to write laws regulating derivatives, as their complexity is part of the problem, a simple tax would eliminate 80% of this risky and volatile trading that does no good to the economy except for those involved.
PS. Do you like Corzine’s mea culpa regarding the missing $600 million? He has that kind of personal wealth and I hope that investors in MF Global are able to go after him personally.
I thought it was 1.2 BILLION that was missing?