Editor’s Note: The Lovefraud reader “PressEject” has written several insightful Letters to Lovefraud about his involvements with sociopathic men. You can read them here:
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 1)
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 2)
Pulled in by the child in the sociopath
As a bisexual person, PressEject was most recently romantically involved with a woman who also turned out to be disordered. In this post, he compares the two experiences.
By PressEject
There was absolutely NOTHING in her emails that asked me to find with her (together) some kind of understanding or resolution. Instead it was like she was writing the script for everything, forgetting another person might have a view different than hers. I let her write it, I stepped back. I was not being asked for anything, so no hard feelings in not responding luckily (other than the overall regret and unease from falling into this sticky web.)
As someone with a bisexual past, I am now a person who has dated both a male S and a female S. I can tell you that their (non-gender reliant) destructive qualities and personality traits have some remarkable similarities:
1. They both got upset if they didn’t get what THEY want.
2. They both played “the victim” if something was held from them that they wanted.
3. They both tried to use guilt (or gaslighting) to make me do something they wanted.
4. They both had “back up” plans in case I “didn’t work out.” He kept his secret, I remembered his behavior and then asked her if she had a “back up plan” and (surprise!) she said as a matter of fact “yes!” (ouch!)
5. Both would become aggressively frustrated when their views were challenged. (I learned to challenge them the second time around!!)
6. Both “excelled at marketing themselves.” Both were fairly fearless in social settings.
7. I am the one who was blamed for any problems, not them. Could not be criticized.
8. Both were capable of very SHORT-TERM regret. (deceptive practice that I was able to keep my guard up against the second time around.)
9. Lack of real empathy, some amount of fake or obvious empathy that could be gained by them when it was explained to them but not forthcoming if left to their own devices (which was most of the time!)
10. Neither showed any sense of guilt when exposed for their hurtful insensitivity or selfishness.
11. Mixed signals… running from very hot (passionate sexually) to complete cold, left in the dust, see you later.
12. There was an eery void “behind the mask,” both revealed what I consider to be unconscious deficits of self-esteem. In time, these were revealed (his were more hidden but could be characterized by a “shy, humble” view of himself contrary to his predatory conquests, hers came out in logically chaotic emails when she wasn’t getting something from me). Oddly, they would spew this out from time to time but neither seemed to be aware of how it caused them to act, so in this sense it seems like an unconscious awareness they always carry.
13. Both were impulsive in the moment, decisions were made quickly almost randomly.
14. Both broke off the relationship suddenly and without warning!
15. Both would from time to time obsess over something they had no power over that caused them stress.
16. Neither seemed concerned if I was ever hungry or thirsty. If they were, then I might be also.
17. When any kind of problem was presented to them it was met with a quarrelsome and defensive posture, neither were willing to work productively to solve a problem with me together. Since they didn’t see anything as broken, there was nothing offered to fix it.
18. Both showed a need to control conversations and social settings. Both often relied on an “outgoing” and “larger than life” personality to achieve this.
19. No real or deep thought-out values. During my second experience, I attempted to find out what was behind multiple opinions (often self righteous opinions held against others) and why these were formed. I found very little under that shell. Instead, to avoid any real thought effort, the questions might be easily turned around and handed back to me.
20. Both would announce, not discuss, both would tell, not ask.
21. Both eventually would reveal they were on the lookout for something “better” and not wanting to settle.
22. Both regard relationships as interchangeable. If I don’t meet their needs, someone else will.
23. Both expressed that they often felt misunderstood. (I wonder why!)
24. Both could at times easily discuss THEIR feelings but never mine.
25. A pervasive sense of humor they both shared was found at other people’s misfortunes.
26. Both gave me odd little presents at the beginning. I believe these to be impulsive purchases, not much real thought went into them it felt like.
27. The lavish flattery… I was to star in a pin-up calendar, I was the smartest guy ever, so accomplished, the best they had ever had!! (uh, how many have you had!!??)
28. Both indifferent about core qualities of healthy relationships: real love, caring, commitment, loyalty.
I started that list last week as I tried to gain my sanity back… It helped!! Perhaps it would be helpful to share with others.
I am still in “relationship recovery” it seems. I learned about three and half years ago I have a blind spot for this kind of behavior. The Lovefraud site helped change my life! I have a developing awareness now that I have a weakness (or blind spot) that I am working on in mistakenly letting relationships propel quickly past emotional involvement right into physical intimacy. With the “S” this can happen easily I now know.
I will be working harder to be careful, to value myself more and not act as impulsively as these predators. I will also pray. I sense that I have suffered with low self-esteem for a long time in my life, luckily, I have a tool to help me out of this. It is love. I know it has to be love and less fear running my life. Love from inside me to build me up, to help me express this in healthy ways. I am determined now more than ever to keep on this path. I will feel less empty and I will keep growing.
They don’t even know. What is now know that there were weekend transfers of client funds out of MF Global, destination unknown.
Of course the “regulatory” agency, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, a for-profit company, states that one “rogue” company does not make for a bad system and no further government regulation is required…
Dear Presseject,
I have just read all your posts and wanted to thank you for sharing your story. I struggled yesterday ….I have to admit I was missing him. 2months NC and counting but why when I’ve been doing so good did yesterday happen? There weren’t any obvious triggers.
Anyway, your articles and the posts that were written were just what I needed to bring me back to reality.
Liar…check
Evil …..check
Cheat…..check
Never cared about me……check
Etc, etc, etc.
When am I gona stop THINKING about him????
Friends, Strongawoman, Alex, slimone, Milo, Oxy and Donna, thank you all for your time and comments and support here. My healing would not have gotten off the ground without the help and knowledge I have gained through this one site. To anyone else reading, my hope is you will come to see that support and change are within reach, it begins with each of being able to open our hearts again, letting go of ideas and resentments that only serve to keep us prisoners. We are free, and eventually, in time, we learn to honor and respect this freedom and… ourselves.
NOTES:
strongawoman… I know exactly the question you are asking of yourself “when do we stop thinking of them?” Donna posted my earlier letters about the first encounter I had with the (male) sociopath. I went back to read what I had written almost three years ago. At the time, I had never known a thing about this kind of disorder so I was blindsighted by the D&D (devalue and abrupt discard after six months of assuming I had found my “soulmate.”) The first month after the D&D I was in something like a state of shock, I learned my physical symptoms were those of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder). It took the rest of the summer to sort out the feelings and find my heart again (I am still working on this last part of course). If you have made it through two months now, first I congratulate you and second, I will say you are moving past the storm. And that in this moment, even with thoughts of your S, you are free. Embrace this. Embrace yourself now, and embrace that you are healing rather than allowing yourself to be abused. Allow the thoughts to come and go, in time you will not have any of the emotional attachment to your abuser. You will remember the events, but you will not be held in place by them. Be free, keep loving…
Alex….you are welcome, I am glad the check list made it up on your wall! It is helpful for us I think to review these characteristics from time to time, especially if we have a past pattern of attracting and being taken by such types. The charm, we learn eventually, masks a void, a black hole that only takes what we hold precious, but never returns this!
slimone… oh yes, when you mentioned being embarrassed in public by the S, how true! At times I was made to feel like an adornment, a cute pet on a leash, an object. And since I had no real sense of my worth at the time, I “allowed” this, even the unease and discomfort it caused me. I too feel “I wanted what they had” BACK THEN. But I now see this as an ILLUSION I fell victim to since I always had more than they would ever have when it comes to a having loving heart. What I didn’t have though was any sense of respect for my heart. Through this path of healing, I am finding the inner resources and strength finally to keep my heart healthy and protected now, not isolated or shut off… or subject to abuse!
MiLo…Regarding your question if the Female S was more vindictive or not compared to the Male S., in thinking back, perhaps in my case, yes, there was more “outrage” on her part if she was not getting what she wanted or was being challenged when I presented my needs. But I am not sure I would rush to make a generalization here. I think any S or N will become vindictive and this is the scary part as the range of behavior as we know can go from pouting to rage, to physical abuse to much, much darker forms of evil that I don’t even wish to mention here! Was she more vindictive OR was I finally looking out for myself better and as a result simply short-circuiting her program by challenging her self-centeredness? (an old episode of Star Trek comes to mind… beware of the Fembots!) Seriously though, if there is NO empathy for our views and needs, this is simply NOT a healthy person to be near, no matter what sex they are and how disordered they are.
Oxy… thank you once again for your unwavering support here. That fast-track to intimacy and the dangerous “hook” you mentioned is part of being aware of our boundaries and interactions. Interesting, we are all human with physical needs, but finally knowing that emotional needs count and need to be met will help me now in determining what IS and what IS NOT a healthy relationship.
By the way, it doesn’t always have to be an intimate relationship…. as an example, I recently walked out on a job I held for about a year. My boss, I began to realize, was completely abusive, with the vindictiveness of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I finally walked out about a month ago. Ultimately I was vindicated, the State agreed with my harassment claim submitted on my unemployment application and found I “had good cause to leave.”
I may be unemployed at the moment, but thankfully I am away from the abuse. Can you imagine the rough last couple of months here? A break up (my choice to go “No Contact” with the recent S), PLUS my choice to go “No Contact” with an abusive boss! *sigh* & lol… (I somehow got my sense of humor back! Thank God.)
TO ALL: I hope some of what I have shared here will help others. After all, it is this site that helped me turn things around in my own life and it is in this same spirit of sharing that I add these observations. I wish us all PEACE.
PressEject
Dear Press eject,
I’m glad that you had the cajones to go NC with an abusive boss in this bad economy! Good for you! I went NC with a boss once, and she didn’t expect me to, but after her outburst, I resigned, putting the letter in her in box the next day—she then came to me and said “Oxy, we need to talk” and I said “nope, you said it all yesterday” I found out afterward that she had done this to EVERY employee there at least once, I guess to just show her power. I never regretted doing that at all. In fact, the job I got was better! That was one of the nicest things about nursing is I could ALWAYS find a job in a day or two if I needed to for any reason! I feel badly for those though who are TRAPPED in a job “relationshit” with a P or N boss and have no reasonable option to quit.
In new relationships I like to find out as much “back story” on people as I can. Let them tell you, but also keep your ears and eyes open at what others have to say about them as well BEFORE you become intimately involved with them (especially physically) The bonding hormones (oxytocin) that are released by sexual intimacy are very powerful for those who react to them, and there is some indication in research that psychopaths have limited responses to the hormone, apparently there are fewer receptors than empaths have. So though they may have the same amount of the hormone, they are lacking in binding sites. This means, essentially, that sex for us binds and bonds us to them, but not the reverse.
PressEject:
I also left my job last year after 12 years…a very good job at a very big company. I did so to get away from a boss I also did not like and to get away from X spath and the other woman he was triangulating me with. So I also had the double whammy…I was devastated by the breakup and also gave up everything when I left my job. But I had to. I could no longer stay there. There was no way. I had reached the end of the rope. But I am so much better now that I did it. It has been 16 months and I am really settling into my new life. I am living the new normal and it feels good. It took awhile to feel “OK” about not getting up everyday and living the rat race. We are so conditioned to do that…our jobs define us and that’s what we do. It takes awhile to “decompress” and it took me a at least a year to feel comfortable.
I am glad you are doing better as well!
Press Eject ~ thanks for answering my question. I have noticed that women S/P/N’s seem to be able to stick things in the back of their mind, keep it there for a long time, then strike out of no where, when you are least expecting it. Like grudge holding on steroids. I agree though, men can do this equally well.
Glad you have regained your sense of humor, I think that is a big step towards recovery and also a real release.
Thanks again, glad you are here
Milo, I think the “grudge holding” is an individual thing depending on the N-injury that they received from us not doing what they wanted us to do….and how entitled they feel to having control.
Your daughter’s one trump card was/is the grandson, which when you got custody of him, you had taken it away, so the ONLY way she had to “get even” was the Custody fight, and she just accidently managed to get you involved with the GAL from hell psychopathic greedy biatch, so the two of them working together, the GAL for monetary gain, and your daughter for revenge purposes (of course both using the child as a club to hit you with for their own individual purposes and not caring about what damage was done to the child as a result).
My son got several N-injuries from me, one when I punished him when he was 11, and then when I turned him in to the cops at age 17 for theft, then again, by cutting him out of my will, and knowing if I outlive my egg donor that he is cut out of the entire estate, so he is FURIOUS to get revenge on me. The last person who turned him in to the cops died for her trouble. I have no doubt that my son will hold on to his grudge against me for the rest of his life.
Louise, yes, the Double Whammy! Good for you for setting yourself free! It is an illusion that we try to find our self-worth sometimes through our work. I too am learning how to redefine myself now or as some friends say “it is good to re-invent yourself” from time to time, it might mean a complete career change, but so be it. It was really ironic too since I had been excelling at work up until the point where the abuse became too much. A friend suggested that my success and perhaps my growing self confidence really felt threatening to my boss. But regardless of the ins and outs of this, the basic problem was the abuse being inflicted on a personal level. I am lucky I recognized it fully and chose to leave. It did not matter if I was going to receive unemployment, that was not even a consideration when I walked out. Somehow these principles that we are taking responsibility for will ultimately bring us to a safe place, at work and in our relationships, I have faith in this. I am glad to read of your progress!
OXY: Yes, I have read about the chemical disparity researchers are pointing to and that you are mentioning:
“The bonding hormones (oxytocin) that are released by sexual intimacy are very powerful for those who react to them, and there is some indication in research that psychopaths have limited responses to the hormone, apparently there are fewer receptors than empaths have. So though they may have the same amount of the hormone, they are lacking in binding sites. This means, essentially, that sex for us binds and bonds us to them, but not the reverse.”
It is a bit of information that helps us to understand better it is them, not us that are lacking. I am choosing to focus on my own choices now, judging less and ultimately learning to let go of the past (a surrendering that Travis is writing beautifully about in “An Invitation to a Miracle”). It is not easy to walk away from what once felt like a great connection, both at work (especially in this economy as you point out, yikes) and with the toxic relationship(s). But I plan to stay the course!
Oxy ~ yea, that n-injury is like sticking a needle in the tiger’s eye ~ somewhere, somehow you just know you are going to pay for it.
I’m sure your son will NEVER get over what he feels are the “wrongs” you did to him. He justifies – anyone gets in my way of what I am entitled to – they deserve everything they get.
Look how the daughter’s mask slipped when I refused Thanksgiving dinner, unleash the rage, anger and how I really feel about you beatch. But, mask firmly in place again, just last night she told me how she wished she could get me an expensive, beautiful Christmas gift that I SO deserved. Gray rock replied, don’t worry about it dearie, I KNOW how much you care, I don’t need gifts.
PS – there is a big pile of barf next to the gray rock