Editor’s Note: The Lovefraud reader “PressEject” has written several insightful Letters to Lovefraud about his involvements with sociopathic men. You can read them here:
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 1)
Finding sanity after the sociopath (part 2)
Pulled in by the child in the sociopath
As a bisexual person, PressEject was most recently romantically involved with a woman who also turned out to be disordered. In this post, he compares the two experiences.
By PressEject
There was absolutely NOTHING in her emails that asked me to find with her (together) some kind of understanding or resolution. Instead it was like she was writing the script for everything, forgetting another person might have a view different than hers. I let her write it, I stepped back. I was not being asked for anything, so no hard feelings in not responding luckily (other than the overall regret and unease from falling into this sticky web.)
As someone with a bisexual past, I am now a person who has dated both a male S and a female S. I can tell you that their (non-gender reliant) destructive qualities and personality traits have some remarkable similarities:
1. They both got upset if they didn’t get what THEY want.
2. They both played “the victim” if something was held from them that they wanted.
3. They both tried to use guilt (or gaslighting) to make me do something they wanted.
4. They both had “back up” plans in case I “didn’t work out.” He kept his secret, I remembered his behavior and then asked her if she had a “back up plan” and (surprise!) she said as a matter of fact “yes!” (ouch!)
5. Both would become aggressively frustrated when their views were challenged. (I learned to challenge them the second time around!!)
6. Both “excelled at marketing themselves.” Both were fairly fearless in social settings.
7. I am the one who was blamed for any problems, not them. Could not be criticized.
8. Both were capable of very SHORT-TERM regret. (deceptive practice that I was able to keep my guard up against the second time around.)
9. Lack of real empathy, some amount of fake or obvious empathy that could be gained by them when it was explained to them but not forthcoming if left to their own devices (which was most of the time!)
10. Neither showed any sense of guilt when exposed for their hurtful insensitivity or selfishness.
11. Mixed signals… running from very hot (passionate sexually) to complete cold, left in the dust, see you later.
12. There was an eery void “behind the mask,” both revealed what I consider to be unconscious deficits of self-esteem. In time, these were revealed (his were more hidden but could be characterized by a “shy, humble” view of himself contrary to his predatory conquests, hers came out in logically chaotic emails when she wasn’t getting something from me). Oddly, they would spew this out from time to time but neither seemed to be aware of how it caused them to act, so in this sense it seems like an unconscious awareness they always carry.
13. Both were impulsive in the moment, decisions were made quickly almost randomly.
14. Both broke off the relationship suddenly and without warning!
15. Both would from time to time obsess over something they had no power over that caused them stress.
16. Neither seemed concerned if I was ever hungry or thirsty. If they were, then I might be also.
17. When any kind of problem was presented to them it was met with a quarrelsome and defensive posture, neither were willing to work productively to solve a problem with me together. Since they didn’t see anything as broken, there was nothing offered to fix it.
18. Both showed a need to control conversations and social settings. Both often relied on an “outgoing” and “larger than life” personality to achieve this.
19. No real or deep thought-out values. During my second experience, I attempted to find out what was behind multiple opinions (often self righteous opinions held against others) and why these were formed. I found very little under that shell. Instead, to avoid any real thought effort, the questions might be easily turned around and handed back to me.
20. Both would announce, not discuss, both would tell, not ask.
21. Both eventually would reveal they were on the lookout for something “better” and not wanting to settle.
22. Both regard relationships as interchangeable. If I don’t meet their needs, someone else will.
23. Both expressed that they often felt misunderstood. (I wonder why!)
24. Both could at times easily discuss THEIR feelings but never mine.
25. A pervasive sense of humor they both shared was found at other people’s misfortunes.
26. Both gave me odd little presents at the beginning. I believe these to be impulsive purchases, not much real thought went into them it felt like.
27. The lavish flattery… I was to star in a pin-up calendar, I was the smartest guy ever, so accomplished, the best they had ever had!! (uh, how many have you had!!??)
28. Both indifferent about core qualities of healthy relationships: real love, caring, commitment, loyalty.
I started that list last week as I tried to gain my sanity back… It helped!! Perhaps it would be helpful to share with others.
I am still in “relationship recovery” it seems. I learned about three and half years ago I have a blind spot for this kind of behavior. The Lovefraud site helped change my life! I have a developing awareness now that I have a weakness (or blind spot) that I am working on in mistakenly letting relationships propel quickly past emotional involvement right into physical intimacy. With the “S” this can happen easily I now know.
I will be working harder to be careful, to value myself more and not act as impulsively as these predators. I will also pray. I sense that I have suffered with low self-esteem for a long time in my life, luckily, I have a tool to help me out of this. It is love. I know it has to be love and less fear running my life. Love from inside me to build me up, to help me express this in healthy ways. I am determined now more than ever to keep on this path. I will feel less empty and I will keep growing.
Strongawoman
Ignoring them is a huge insult.
I can’t remember how long you’ve been NC, but likely he’ll step it up in hopes of some response or validation.
I did the same thing. Changed phone numbers, blocked him from the PBX at work, blocked him through ATT at home, blocked him through Verizon on my cell, changed my work and personal email address. And now the jackass is trying to connect with me on a social networking site. He lurks and leaves his finger print on my profile, and tried to send me messages that way. Loser.
But, it’s hard for him to get through, and every day every hour without him around I get stronger. It’s a fight. A daily fight.
Athena
OXY
Happy Birthday. Thank you for giving us the gift of YOU.
Athena
MiLo:
Yes, I get it. I do realize though that men can be just as dangerous if not more so, but as far as just being “gossipy” and “backstabbing,” I think the women win on that one. I think it’s true what has been said on here also that women are just more sneaky. They may be just as dangerous or toxic as a man, but they plaster that cute smile on their face and everyone thinks they are so sweet when in reality they are poison. I have been slimed first hand by a woman and I saw it up close and personal.
Louise,
My spath was a woman “friend” While I was dealing with her, I was working in an office where the supervisor was useless, and having an affair with his assistant, and the manager ignored it ALL! The Manager was a man, the supervisor was a man, and the assistant was a woman…and she RAN the show! Yep, totally catty, bitchy, and so forth. That was my last office job..lol
@strongawoman –
“”.I have to admit I was missing him. 2months NC and counting but why when I’ve been doing so good did yesterday happen? There weren’t any obvious triggers.”
There does not need to be; your poor old brain and heart are still processing everything. Once they’ve done that, these instances will be fewer and farther between. I am 4 years out and have been 100% NC if you don’t count the myriad of court proceedings (criminal and property settlement) that the Superspath’s behaviour has forced upon me.
I have not cried or felt distress over any bad memory for at least 18 months now.
And yet – when I saw the photographs that the property valuer took for the expert valuations of each of our homes that were done last week for the purposes of this week’s property settlement trial, I cried.
I saw trees I had planted as seeds and as tiny saplings, growing strong and straight and tall in the earth on which the spath walks, but which I can no longer walk.
I saw the beautiful wrought-iron fencing that I had loved and had salvaged from historic but long-dead houses, that had been lovingly renovated and fitted to the boundary fencing of a house lived in by Superspath and his current dupe.
And I saw other, smaller pieces of beautiful decorative wrought-iron panel-work that had been given to me by my best friend of 41 years after she had some left over from works done at her own home. I had used these to weld into a gazebo that I built at what used to be my home, so that whenever I saw them I would think of my friend and so that although so many miles apart, our homes were somehow linked. I had not seen them since leaving in October 2007 and it hurt to see them in HIS yard, where THEY could enjoy them but where I could not.
Its funny how we can think we have cut ourselves loose from things but then how some reminder can have us right back there, weeping and grieving our losses.
I cried when I saw in one photograph, the height and the breadth and beautiful shade offered by the now mature claret ash I had planted as a 75cm sapling in 2006; 5 years later. It was a joy to behold ”“ but it was their joy, not mine. I felt an immediate flash of anger, the twist of envy a the pang of deep distress until it came to me, slowly and unbidden, that the new woman should have the joy of this tree after all. There would not be much else for her soon.
“When am I gona stop THINKING about him???? ”
Soon.
@louise and @MiLo –
“I’ve never met a “catty” man. Seriously. But, oh, dear”the women! I would rather work with an office full of men anyday over women. Too much drama, too much gossip, too much backstabbing. I never experienced that when I worked with men.”
In general, I agree with you both (in a normal population), however the Superspath is quite the cattiest person I have ever known, and he is male.
I guess that when it comes down to spathiness, all personal qualities or traits that are negative, destructive and revolting are exemplified to the nth degree in their words and actions.
@skylar –
“…it’s easier to convince a man not to do something foolish, than it is to convince him not to do something evil, because lots of people don’t mind being evil, but nobody likes to look foolish.”
That is why the Superspath walked away from Monday’s trial and agreed to settle for us to each keep hold of what we already have (hang on a minute – isn’t that EXACTLY what I signed 4 years ago????). He had been made to look stupid by the trial Judge, my lawyer and even by his own lawyer. To the point where I felt it necessary to warn my lawyer to watch his back now, because nobody who thwarts a spath ever goes unpunished.
Of course having his own testimony (read: lies) fall down around his ankles on the witness stand can not have helped either. Just 45 minutes into his cross-examination and everyone in the room had him sussed. And we had not even begun on the evidence that I held against him, he fell apart being questioned on 2 small paragraphs of HIS OWN AFFIDAVIT!!!
(Naturally, his partner, sister and mother were not permitted by him to be in the courtoom while he was questioned – they must never know exactly what was said in there….which is why I have ordered a transcript copy that I will eventually post to each of them)
“I think that’s why it IS important to laugh at psychopaths. So that people will look at their behavior and recognize it as foolish. Then they will be taken as an example of how not to be.’
I couldn’t agree more with the sentiment here – I do, however think that we need to be smart about HOW and WHEN and WHERE we do that laughing, because of how dangerous they are.
Ana:
Haha, me, too…that will also be my last office job. I vowed to never go back to a corporate environment or any type of office environment ever again and so far I have been true to my word. I know what you mean, lady! 🙂
aussiegirl:
I’m so sorry you have had to deal with a catty SuperSpath! And I’m so sorry about your former property. It sounds so beautiful 🙁
presseject
Liar”check
Evil ”..check
Never cared about me—check
its amazing how these all hit home mine never cheated that i know of but the following
constantly accused me of cheating
always belittled me and my family hers was always better
cared sometimes and other times did not give a shit, there was a time when i was supporting her completely and i was without power or food never cared one bit. wasnt her problem
i was good enough to support her, but not good enough to be seen with, wasnt even allowed to take pictures with 2 of us in them.
anytime i challenged the cheating remarks or basically anything it was full on rage against me always told me i was wrong even if i or others could prove different.
any kind of social interaction was not allowed constantly accused me of looking at talking to other women, one time we where on the couch watching tv and she told me my penis was throbbing looking at women on tv?
when i had money wasnt happy till it was completely spent and not on me.
and the healing
i get so damn mad thinking about all of it and then i go home and look at the pictures and sit and cry, i try and think of a way to make it different, but i cant and i shouldnt its all a mess yet
the funny part of all of this is that she new spaths better than anyone read every book, researched like crazy was it practice??
forgot
loved to gamble would sit and spend 1000 dollars a week playing video poker, wow sound familiar? we even went as far as to open our own establishement to keep her happy, and when it got shut down wasnt her problem like everything else was all on me,
never admit fault or guilt never! she was embaresed but of course to everyone she knew it was a bad decision by me.
i dont even gamble,
Aussiegirl,
So sorry you have been dragged through all that hurt and sorrow. His next victim may enjoy the fruits of your labour but as you say not for long. If your spath is anything like mine……they’re out of the big super spath mold ….he will rinse and repeat. And yes I agree that it’s better to laugh from a distance. Mine is nasty with a capital N.
Athena, I’m hyper vigilant! He has threatened to wait for me after work so I’m being careful. It’s horrible…..constantly looking over your shoulder. Result for him then…..bas**rd