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By | January 30, 2014 138 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: She played the hot and cold game

Woman behind maskEditor’s Note: This letter was sent in by Lovefraud reader “truelove.”

Wow where to start. I am in my 40s and started dating a girl in her late 20s back in April 2013. I had met her a couple years ago and thought she was a nice, caring person. We started dating and things got hot and heavy really fast. It was like a fun roller coaster ride, but little did I realize she had plans to purposely make it jump the tracks once I was most vulnerable and hooked.

Taking control

She played the hot and cold game with me from the beginning.  I was hurt by it but always went back to her when she wanted to see me. She was taking control of the relationship at this point through manipulating my emotions. She asked me all kinds of personal questions and complimented me a lot. I never felt so appreciated in my entire life, and it felt so good having a woman tell me so many nice things. Then she said things that made me think this is my soul mate whom I have been waiting for because she felt the same about a lot of the things we talked about.

Texts and sex

The sex was unbelievable and often experienced. We spent so much time together and texted constantly. I thought this was kind of odd at first, but this was my soul mate so it seemed all right. Later I realized it was to keep control of me and not because she cared, because she did horrible things behind by back while having this intense communication with me.

Then I noticed that she would get offended really easily over silly things. For example, she got mad at me for replying to her text messages with K instead of saying OK. Then I noticed that she would say things to hurt me. She mentioned that I had a bald spot on my head when I didn’t. It was like she was testing me to see how to upset me. I just thought she was joking. Then she would ask me strange personal questions that made me feel uncomfortable, but I figured she cared about me and simply wanted to get to know me more.

Many personal questions

She asked what caused previous relationships to end and I said it was due to cheating, wow, go figure. She asked me what my greatest sexual fantasies were. Everything with her was sexual. She even said that my filtered fresh water was sexual!

As I look back, she would often stare at me in a really intense way. We even had staring contests and she won every time. It was like she could see right through me and her eyes were like two lifeless blue doll eyes in her head that wouldn’t flinch.

Lies and manipulation

Then the lies and manipulation really kicked into overdrive. We were upstairs watching a movie one night and she took a call that she said was her cousin. She ran out of my house like it was a fire drill to take the call. When she came back up, I had this pain deep in my gut that it was another guy she was talking to. She lied and I dropped it since I started to ignore my gut instinct a couple weeks before and how could such a sweet, nice loving girl do such a thing as lie? The brainwashing had already kicked into high gear.

Oops, the wrong name

My friends couldn’t understand why I didn’t just ditch the bad nasty apple for good and stop going back and move on. They obviously didn’t understand how addictive it becomes to want to work things out and still believe all the lies, since I thought we had a deep spiritual, mental and emotional connection and I didn’t want to be wrong?!

Then when we went to bed and she called me by her ex-boyfriend’s name by accident so she said! I was so naive and “in love,” that I kicked her out of bed and later overlooked it and figured she was with him before for a year and a half so people make mistakes, right? This was in late June 2013.

Truth is like pulling teeth

A week later I caught her texting someone late at night right next to me in bed after saying she didn’t want to have sex earlier that evening. It was like she got a thrill out of getting caught possibly. Then I badgered her into the late hours to tell the OBVIOUS truth and she finally said it was her OTHER EX, yes another ex boyfriend! Just to get a shred of honesty was like pulling teeth from a tiger. I see now that she was messing with my emotions and hurting me on purpose.

I thought she was a victim and being used by these other guys when it was likely the opposite. Really sickening now that I think about it. I was in complete denial at this point and in fantasy land since I was so into her and she was into me, right?! I later found out that she was sleeping with her ex and they had a fight and that’s why she took the phone call in a fire drill rush in my apartment.

Sleeping with the ex

She told me in late August 2013 about sleeping with her ex and about almost having a threesome with him and her best friend! She told me she loved me in the same sentence and how she prayed for me! I was devastated and felt so betrayed; I cried a lot.

When she “came clean,” by telling me that she slept with her ex, I later found out she was hooking up with another guy she met through the sex pages/personal ads of craigslist! This was when she was, “coming clean?!” She is almost thirty and the guy was 19 years old!

I found out she likely had a threesome with this kid as I saw her text messages one night. I know that was wrong, but I guess I needed a bigger dose of reality and humiliation.

Three days before she had sex with the kid, she had asked me to be her boyfriend and I said yes! It was like the more screwed up stuff she did to me, the more it made her feel good. This whole experience has been so humiliating as a man to have a woman do this to me and to leave and come back to it several times thinking it would stop. I think the word I am looking for is I felt emasculated?

The sex weapon

So she told me about cheating on me not because she felt bad, but it was intended to hurt me emotionally, which it did. I broke up with her initially when she called me by her ex-boyfriend’s name. But time and time again I don’t know how she did it she was able to get me back into her game. She was able to slither her way back into my life every time by using the powerful weapon of hot sex, now that I think about it.

Intentionally hurting through lies

I later determined that she was trying to turn me into a willing victim. Every time she would do something horrible to me, she would want to get closer to me and love bomb me again. How can someone purposely go out of their way to hurt another person?? I don’t get it! Why waste so much time!

While all this was taking place she told me lies within lies and deceptions within deception! I wanted to believe her, but I didn’t believe her. Such outlandish lies! She likely lied to me about difficult things from when she was younger to get my pity. How could such a hurt person who is so vulnerable do such monstrous things to me? It made no sense to me. As a result I remained in a fog mentally and emotionally, wondering if I was losing my mind.

Girlfriend and boyfriend

Now after Thanksgiving, she wanted space from me and I was dumbfounded and upset! A week before, she started a fight with me and justified going out with another guy and told me the details about how she was a good girl even though they talked about sex! After she told me this, she held my hand like she was my girlfriend!

Oh yeah, during our relationship, we spent tons of time together and she would put her arm under my arm while walking my dog, etc. She was making me think I was all hers and she was into me, basically my girlfriend. It was all a facade. I fell in love with a person who didn’t exist.

Smirks

This part was really creepy to me. A couple days before Thanksgiving, she was over my house and as she walked out of my bathroom, she gave a big smile, but I only looked at her from the corner of my eye. What I saw was creepy! Out of the side of my vision, I saw that the smile was fake and I caught a quick glimpse of a person wearing a mask! Every other time she smiled at me I looked at her directly and it seemed sincere.

When I caught her being deceptive and lying, she didn’t seem sorry but instead had a smirk on her face and duper’s delight as they call it after I researched it. There was another time she asked me if I wanted a particular thing, and I said yes. After I answered, I saw a quick smirk on her face. Later it was her feeling good about duping me again about the question she asked. Now that I think about it, every time she upset me and hurt me through deception and lies, she probably enjoyed it and I believe got a rush from it. Crazy!

Needing space

Now after we both agreed for the umpteenth time to give space to each other after Thanksgiving, she broke the agreement and contacted me three days later wanting to see me etc. I ignored her because I had come to a definite conclusion that I was dealing with a sociopath and dangerous person emotionally for me.

I began researching online back in early October 2013 to try and make sense of what was happening to me. I thought I was going crazy and needed to deal with some personal issues since I was constantly mad at her and expressed it verbally several times. She later tried to get me to believe that what I said to her was just as bad as what she did to me.

Anyway, I read a lot of websites, articles and the book by Dr. Stout and it all began to make sense. I found Lovefraud.com  and read the testimonies of people and saw parts of my experience in almost every story. It was comforting but still painful and shocking to come to grips with what I had been experiencing. I identified with some of the traits that made me a potential bulls eye /target for her.

Wanting me back

Ok, so since I ignored her after Thanksgiving, she started to call me several times a day and sent 30 or 40 text messages to get me back into her game. I still ignored her, despite how difficult it was. It was extremely difficult since I care about her, but the more no contact with her, the more the fog lifted and I saw how many horrible lies and things she did to me and how I was duped by her.

She eventually wound up in a mental hospital early December with OCD from contacting me and depression. She tried to blame me for it, but I was simply breaking free from her control and saw through her manipulation. I thought that when she contacted me often she loved me, but it was just to control/own me, so to speak.

Knowledge is power

Wow knowledge is power and wisdom is acting on that power ”¦

I contacted her in the hospital because I love her and that’s when she asked me in a negative tone why I never returned her calls and blamed me for her hospital stay. I got upset and hung up the phone instead of yelling. Yet again she was successful at messing with my emotions.

She would send me poems and tried to contact me for the month of December 2013 and I continued to read them because I liked the attention and wanted to believe she could actually change and love me the way I need to be loved.

I still didn’t contact her until after Christmas when she wished me a happy birthday and Christmas. I contacted her and the whole games began again for a couple days and I broke free again. I find it ironic that she would up in the hospital instead of  me because of all the abuse I got from her.

Start from scratch?

In January 2014, she wanted to start from scratch with our relationship and I said no unless she tells the truth about something she obviously lied about before. Ridiculous, I know, for me to want to have a friendship with benefits kind of a thing. I had not been acting sane at this point.

So she continued to tell her ridiculous terrible lies; the truth was blatantly obvious. I told her I want nothing more to do with a liar!

This was when she told me she slept with her OTHER EX twice while being with me. She called me the following day begging to come sleep in my bed. I was shocked and speechless and she hung up on me. Even until the end she was hoping to keep me as her willing victim. She chose to keep her lies and dirty secrets over having anything to do with me in the future.

I gave her so many chances to change and do right by me. I knew that the new person was simply another mask she was putting on. All her actions before were in the past to be forgotten and forgiven, but saying sorry and making false promises gets old. Come to think of it, she had mentioned herself as a phoenix! The scary thing is, I don’t think she is done with me yet.

Emotional sobriety

It has been 10 days since last contact through Facebook and it has been like starting over with emotional sobriety. Every time I wound up in any kind of contact, it had been awful and emotionally painful as it brought up painful memories.

I believe she didn’t like the fact that I dumped her finally for good, and that she wasn’t able to hurt me again emotionally by sharing other guys she slept with while being with me. It is shocking how she would share different emotionally painful things right when it would hurt me the most. The 19-year-old guy she slept with I found out on my own and foiled her plans to hit me with that zinger. My God, the betrayal and lies/deception! She knew what she was doing to me. After I caught her in a deception, she got a parking ticket and claimed it was karma getting back at her!

Today I am slowly recovering. I feel depressed, shocked, angry and hurt all around.

I am still dumbfounded that there are people like this in the world. Also the bad luck I had of coming across a female sociopath, where there are around three million in this country I believe?  I have watched a lot of horror movies and seen things that are evil, but this takes it too a whole new level as they are monsters with sweet caring masks and a dagger behind their backs. Also they aren’t usually discovered until damage has been done.

But I also see how this negative, painful experience will make me a better person in the long run. They say the best revenge is to live a good, honest and happy life. I have every intention of doing so by Grace.

 


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Frandee

Truelove, all our stories are SO familiar, its like they all read out of the same manual!! I know exactly how you feel, I have been out of my relationship for about 2 years and he still continues to contact me of which I have no way to stop, he is just going down the list to see who will nibble on the bait, NOT ME! AND I still find out the lies and truth, I was devastated when the reality of what he is came to me. That these people exist is scary, I was in love with an actor not him, he took advantage of all the best in me, he messed with me mentally, emotionally, financially, physically and spiritually and left me a mess! Thank God for Lovefraud!! It especially hurt that no one around me really understood the damage he caused and how deep the trauma was and still is sometimesthat was frustrating beyond belief, I had to quit talking with family and friends about it and get support from fellow “survivors”. I still feel like everyone thinks I’m over reacting but I dont care, I will never be quiet or give up, I do what I can to get information out there!! I know I shouldnt but I still keep an eye out for him so I know where and what he is up to but I dont warn anyone personally anymore, I cant get sucked back up into the drama! I know one day I will be 100% done but I still have the obsession to keep tabs??? I used to take it 1 hour at a time, now its much better, I can go weeks without him bursting into my reality and it will get better for you!!! We are all here if you ever need us!! Good Luck

truelove

Frandee

Thank you so much for replying. Yea I stopped talking to family about it because they got sick of it and likely didn’t understand. It is so hard because they made us feel so special and wonderful! Like being in “Candyland” and then winding up on the “Operation” table! I am using older board games as an analogy. Its been a little over 2 months since seeing this person and 3 weeks since last contact through facebook. I still have disturbing memories and nightmares and anger early in the morning and throughout the day. Its like I am hurting myself by reliving the painful memories/words shared by the monster. I got tested for all STDs and still waiting for results. I remember me asking her when she told me about sleeping with her ex whether he wore a condom. She said essentially, “you don’t have a right to ask since we don’t use a condom.” Again I felt a pain in my gut and ended it. Later by her wearing me down, she wound up back in my bed again! Boy I feel like a dumb shallow guy now that I look back, but I was definitely under a spell that overpowered me obviously. Anyway thank yo for your comment:)

Dave

Wow,

Im surprised you noticed these things so quickly,,,with mine I didn’t notice anything wrong until 8 months later after we moved in together.

Mine never admitted to sleeping with others, however I suspect she did, but she always had an excuse for texting other men, or meeting up with them, sometimes even blaming me. It got to the point where I was going through her phone several times a week cause it was the only way I could catch her, the last time I caught her she was making plans to go out with some guy while I had the kids out of town the whole weekend, she had met this guy at a bar while we were broke up for a month, when I busted her this time I called him and found out she lied to him too, he knew she had been with me for long time and split up, however she didn’t tell him I moved back in, she then put a numerical lock on her phone after that.

We know man,,,we know we want it so bad, and they are so good at selling the lie, we want to believe it no matter how much our common sense is screaming at us that this is just way too fishy.

You weren’t married or had kids, count yourself lucky, and just keep trucking without her, just don’t jump into anything real quick with someone else until your beyond this.

onmyown

Dave, this is a good example of a person who is not emotionally attached to you.

When normal people have a relationship breakup they need time to get over it so they can move forward. It’s a grieving process. In a normal relationship, people decide they aren’t meant for each other, wish each other well, and stop seeing one another. None of this is true with sociopaths. They typically will keep try to keep reeling you back in, if you still have some “use value” to them, until you decide to make it stop. Sociopaths pick up a new partner immediately – IF they hadn’t had an old flame simmering on the back burner or were already grooming a new victim before you were even gone.

My ex-spath was grooming a very young and naive woman before we even broke up. She didn’t know I existed. My side of the bed wasn’t even cold before she was sleeping in it. Even then, he kept trying to reel me back in as the other woman. I still had things that he wanted to use.

Dave

ouch, sry to hear onmyown, that is IMO outside of abusing ones children the worst treachery you can commit (cheating/adultery) or to immediately hop in the sack with someone right after breaking up. The devestation to know someone gave themselves sexually to somebody other than you is tremendous, no wonder you hear of these love triangles where someone winds up murdered, it can break people and drive them insane. I still love this woman yet hate every fiber of her being at the same time, so my emotions swing back n forth right now. I am finally starting to face the reality that this is truly over and its best for me and my kids.

I feel sorry for all of us on here, but at the same time I think its good lessons learned to help us become stronger and less dependant on a spouse, I still want to find love and be happy with a partner an EQUAL and share my life, but I now know I cant let that person completely determine my happiness, only add to it, and I cant wait to find her once im ready!! Will be nice to lay in bed at night with someone I feel like I can trust, and not sit there looking for opportunities to snoop through their phone, and not get verbally/emotionally bashed.

onmyown

Good grief yes, it’s like having someone reach into your chest and rip your heart out. Everything you believed, everything you trust, is gone. As much as it hurts to discover the truth and find the strength to leave someone you love, it doesn’t hurt as much as staying with them and continually being lied to over and over again. You dig deep and discover what you’re made of, and chances are you’re much stronger than you ever thought you were. Eventually it just fades to distant, unpleasant memories that doesn’t have those strong emotions attached anymore.

I made myself a promise that the minute I feel like I have to start checking up on the person I’m in a relationship with, it’s time to GTFO. I will never live that kind of craziness again.

Dave

Oh yeah its craziness, the sneaking around trying to find out whats going on behind your back, whats worse is when you actually find it!!!!

And if you aren’t mad enough finding it, then when you confront them, they deny, lie, manipulate, swear its not what you think, or blame you for it, then get mad at you going through the phone lol.

Its insanity. Especially when you find these things repeatedly and everytime they justify it or lie and you don’t have enough proof other than they just did it behind your back, I would have had to literally catch mine in a physical sex act to finally bust her cheating and I guarantee she would have said its all my fault that she did it. I think part of me wanted to catch her cheating as I knew that would push me enough to leave.

One of these guys she actually dated once while we were broke up, I spoke to him years later and told him I knew about them seeing each other and he said “if that’s what you want to call it” I asked what he meant and he said “I fealt like she was using me” “she only seemed to call when she needed something” Whatever it was about him, she told him to take a hike then called me back that’s when she lifted the first CPO off of me in 08. I still to this day believe its cause he couldn’t have kids anymore and she still wanted one, cause less than 2 months after I moved back in she wound up pregnant and said she forgot to take her b-control,,,yeah right!!!

Kathleen

I can relate to that onmyown. I didn’t know about sociopaths until he’d been gone a few months. As soon as I told him my money was gone (he never worked or contributed a penny to food, bills, cars etc) he started work on ending the marriage, but made it my fault. He wore me down with his many, many memberships of dating sites, receiving hundreds of emails everyday. I saw his profile on some of them but he lied and said ‘somebody was having a joke and posted it without him knowing.’ There were even photos. He put on his profile he was honest (lie), caring (only for himself), liked to make people laugh and make jokes (he has no sense of humour). He groomed a woman before he left me because he knew she had money, a big house and 2 cars. He had an affair with her for a year then stonewalled her when she wouldn’t give him more money. She knew nothing about all the other women he was having sex with and getting money from. I tried to warn her, but she wouldn’t believe me until she was stonewalled. Then she sent me a letter telling me she should have believed me. It should be a crime but a s/p is very very manipulative and a very, very good liar. I know he’s doing it now – taking money and sex from innocent women. He tells them he’s ‘already in love’ with them, then moves in, abuses them then leaves.

truelove

Thanks Dave for replying and the encouragement; God knows I need it. Another thing I didn’t share in my story is that we were both facilitators and she left the group to go hook up with some guy. So she is likely out banging some other dude while I am left running the group on my own! I think it was the whole taboo of it for her. These things turned her on. When I asked her about it, she admitted that it was effed up that she did that. She never told me who she was with but it was clearly one of her exes with other details she left. Anyway take care and thank you again. Oh yea when we first starting hooking up, she was the facilitator of the group and I was a member. She was turned on by this dynamic and I thought it was odd but didn’t care as long as she was turned on.

slimone

truelove,

I have to say this first: NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HER AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO HER, OR WHAT SHE SAYS.

That said, if you made her a man and changed her eyes to dark brown she could be the liar I was involved with many years ago. You nailed the ‘play book’ with your keen descriptions of her games.

But, despite knowing all the plays in the book, if you don’t completely severe ties and continue to learn and heal yourself you will either go back into the crapper with her, or find yourself attracted to another energy vampire.

Don’t do that. You don’t sound like you have any legal reason to have anything to do with her. Be strong. Resist the addiction urge to ‘use’ with her again. You will feel differently as time passes, and you will not have the urge to wallow in the s*** with a pig. Because that is what sex is with these types.

YOU should be the most important person to YOU.

Take care,
Slim

truelove

Slimone

Thanks for the advice. I think my sanity impinges on that. So far so good but feeling depressed, anxious and actually reminiscing of the good times…Yea your are right, wallowing with pigs. Next time I will make sure I pick high on the tree and leave the rotten apples on the ground for the worms..

truelove

Slimone wrote:

“I have to say this first: NEVER HAVE CONTACT WITH HER AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO HER, OR WHAT SHE SAYS.”

Why? Actually I need to hear it from someone else as lately I have been missing this person!!?

I know crazy but from what I have read, rather common.

Please make it crystal clear why I should never have contact with her again.

On a side note, I just remembered where we had our first kiss on a park bench. She took me there after telling me she cheated on me and kissed me. Then cried that I didn’t look at her in the same way! Its crazy how different things she did that were off or really messed up are coming back to memory. Its like when you have repressed memories. Its seems like she was bringing me back to the scene like a killer does to “get a rush.” Or maybe I am just looking into it too much. Either way it was manipulation.

Ok, not an idiot

Why? Because you love yourself and are a slave to no one. This craziness isn’t living! It’s a slow painful death. You lose you motivation and love for life. You lose you health. You gain weight and maybe turn to addiction. Your Dr visits will become closer and closer together until you are prescribed a cocktail of med’s all designed to allow you to exist (not live) just a little longer. Why would you let someone control you like that? ONE life!! Thats it….no turning back. Find yourself again. Once I morned the loss of the high (not the person) I started to look at myself and what I wanted. I traveled and did it alone. I needed to like myself again. It was and is wonderful. I started doing crossfit and training for endurance races and triathlons like i use to. It wasn’t easy getting back because as we age, if we don’t stay in shape, even for just a few months, injuries are a given and recovering is harder. But I stuck with it and now I plan my year around races in destinations I want to travel. I dine alone almost all the time (although I can talk to anyone) I don’t hang out at bars and I am not looking for anyone. I finally like myself and hopefully Mr. Right will come along but until then. I live my life, I love my life, and I love me. Thats why.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

Thank you for the encouragement and advice!
Thats what I need to learn is to like and love myself again! No wonder I allowed some creep girl in. You are right on about enjoying your own company first. How will you know when the right one will come along? I thought about this and being early 40s, I have spent too much time contemplating, preparing myself yada yada. I feel like if I do anymore soul searching etc, I will be 60 and ready for a healthy relationship!
I have been wanting to get back into art etc. things that used to get my mind off things; meditative activities. I think I will take your advice, its what I have been lackiing lately is self respect and self love and caring…Here here…!:)

Stargazer

Truelove,

Her sociopathy aside….(and she does sound sociopathic)….people in their 20’s are still finding their identity. And part of that is their sexual identity. It is very rare for a relationship with that age difference (in either direction) to last. They are of a completely different generation. When I was in my 40’s, I dated several guys in their 20’s. Every one of them broke my heart. When I was in my 20’s, I broke a lot of guys’ hearts. Granted, there are some very mature 20-year-olds out there. But the majority are just too young to know who and what they want. And a 20-something-year old who wants a guy in his 40’s is suspect to me. I dated a lot of older guys when I was in my 20’s who all wanted to commit to me. They were like father figures to me. Part of me wanted to be with them, but part of me still wanted to have more sexual experiences and just experience the world. I needed and wanted the security because I’d never had a real father. But I was not ready for a committed relationship. I had no idea who I was. I was going through my own version of borderline pathology, depression, and ups and downs trying to just take care of myself! I’m just telling you this to give you a little perspective.

The great thing about young people is that they have not had a chance to get beaten down by the world. They are open, full of energy, and not jaded and of course they are very attractive. But there are obvious ways they don’t match up with someone who is their parents’ age.

I think you have become so addicted to the great sex and the emotional bond that goes with it. When you have that bond, it feels like this is your one and only and NO ONE will ever feel like that to you again. It is the addiction. When you are away from her for long enough, the bond will start to break.

But the point I was making is that even if she were not a sociopath and just an ordinary 20-something year old, the cards are stacked against you anyway, and it’s unlikely that it would be a fulfilling relationship over time.

Similarly, I have many guy friends in their 40’s and 50’s who have a lot of opportunities to date women in their 20’s. They stopped because they say it is a lot of drama. No offense to any young members here.

Next time, if you are truly looking for a partner, don’t let things get “really heavy really fast.” Take your time. Physical attraction is not a good predictor of a good partner.

lagioiella

I started babysitting at age 10. I also was aware of “inappropriate contact” with children as I saw friends’ whose family lives were really infected with incest. I also saw those friends grow up to be adults in the 40s, that had no conscience about sleeping with teenage boys. Incest and pornography seems to promote this attraction to youth. Five years is a generation gap. What does a 40 year-old have in common with a 20 year-old? Or does she just want to call the shots and play bossy mom? What intelligent, college educated woman likes to be called “dude” by some youngster she is bedding? What sane women is attracted to a youngster who is also going through many other women and men like a public restroom? (High risk behavior is what doctors call it.)

I have had to cut people with no sexual/relational boundaries out of my life like gangrene. I surround myself with women I know who will not sleep with my offspring. This is what real women/mothers do.

truelove

Stargazer

Well she was almost thirty and was facilitating a support group and seemed more mature than most 29 year olds. I was 42. True, age differences can be difficult but doable. I think the focus should be on the fact that I was dealing with a socioath so even a “20 something” can wear a mask and seem more mature than most. She even said things and felt about things that an older person would. Essentially she tricked me into thinking she was an old soul!! So I am going to have to disagree with you on that note. I wouldn’t have gotten involved with a 29 year old if she didn’t seem mature period. It was when I was already hooked that the masks started to crack. Thank you for your reply though. I think your focus again ought to be me dealing with a sp; not your typical 20 something by a long shot!!

aintgonnatakeitnomore

some older ppl are immature, very young-minded, peter-pan never grow up-ers. dont feel bad she was a young person who was like this. she will be this way in her 60 and 70s.
SICK.
it rly has nothing to do with age.
granted a 30yo sleeping with a 20yo is stupid. 20yos are stupid. but a 30yo with a 40 or 45yo…not a big deal. that ten yrs in ur 20s makes a difference that the next 30 or 40 yrs wont. theres a deal of change in ur 20s. its why older men who get involved with women in their 20s regret it. the kid grows up and says, ewwww ur OLD. by then the guys like 55 and now guess what, he is old lol Shudda stayed with the wife of his youth and loved his kids too.
but for truelove…the point of the story is she’s a spath. he was targeted and tortured. she will continue to target and torture into her 80s if she can. lets not confuse or even cloud the issue with anything else.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Thank you for stepping up and sharing the other side of the argument which I believe you have succinctly shown.:) Sociopaths know no age or boundaries. I could have been with a 40 year old sociopath and have been really screwed up more emotionally as they have had more time to develop their skills. I feel I shouldn’t have called her on her sociopathic behavior as she will likely use the knowledge to develop her incideous skills to cause more damage with others in the future.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

dont feel bad for telling her that. dont feel bad about anything in that relationship. dont feel bad about others who are caught in her sticky web; you cant stop them. u wudnt have listened to a word u said if u tried to talk to urself back at the beginning, wud u have?
anything we did, in our attempt to breathe while sucking in water in the ocean of betrayal of this magnitude, we cant feel bad for. we just can’t.
and others who say otherwise have never tread this murky water of abusive torment.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

“dont feel bad for telling her that. dont feel bad about anything in that relationship. dont feel bad about others who are caught in her sticky web; you cant stop them. u wudnt have listened to a word u said if u tried to talk to urself back at the beginning, wud u have?
anything we did, in our attempt to breathe while sucking in water in the ocean of betrayal of this magnitude, we cant feel bad for. we just can’t.
and others who say otherwise have never tread this murky water of abusive torment.”

Thank you so much for writing this as I have a habit of being too hard on myself. You are right. I had good intentions from the beginning. She saw me as prey to get what she wanted and then split. Fortunately I saw through it, and told her, “Game over, you lose and move on.” I told her this a coupe times and she continued to contact me. Last time chatted a month ago on facebook and she tried to manipulate me again by putting the responsibility on me. I think once she saw again that I was unwilling to let her in because of lying etc., she tried to pt some of the blame on me for my anger and not forgiving. She tried to compare me expressing my anger vebally as being just as bad as what she was doing behind my back. She tried to make me feel guilty for blocking my phone from her #, and said how mean and unfair that was…(Double standard) I know that she was playing on my desire to see the best in people and give them second chances etc…She was playing on my conscience and forgiving nature. Amazing how they can exploit the very things so foreign to them.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

I know ur hard on urself. Ur spath saw it too and used that to her advantage.
I am way, way too hard on myself. I am so hard on myself ppl are blown away by it, once they understand it. For me to cut myself slack is a precious gift I am learning to give. To me.
I’m basically looking at every time he said I was bad as I was really good and to feel good about myself in that moment. It turns the whole moment around in my mind. It turns the trauma to a gift of self-love.
Those moments just flash up in ur brain for no reason but I redeem them now. I say to myself, it’s trauma. Feel It. It’s just trauma. It’s over and will never happen again. And he was lying. He was projecting. He was flailing about, frantically looking for a way to get his sick needs filled. The very thing he was saying? Well the opposite was, is and ever will be TRUTH, REALITY.
~hugs truelove~

Ok, not an idiot

Truelove- It’s been a long time since I have logged into the site although I read it weekly. My user name no longer depicts how I feel about myself. If anything, It’s how I feel about him. One thing that sticks out in my mind about your writings, as it is something I have learned about myself through the whole ordeal and may be something we share, is the need for passion as it supersedes all other needs. Everyone’s needs are different. Some people, above all else, need security. Some people need money or status or to be surrounded by lots of people or they desire a large family presence etc and that’s ok. I have all these needs too but these other needs can only grow, for me, from passion. I need someone who shares the same “passion” for self, for life and for love. This, I believe, made me a target. It is not in me to change this need as it is part of who I am and I love that about me. That being said, I have finally decided that I owe it to myself to wait for that quality/connection in a healthy person. I have yet to find it and I am ok with that, as I am no longer looking. It will come when I am ready. I am completely over the S-Path, I have no feelings for him and no desire to have anything to do with him at all. It takes time but it happens! Mr. right is out there and I have no desire for Mr. right “now”. I am finally in control of my own self. You will find her, although as stargazer pointed out, I think its worth considering that the road will be more frustrating looking outside your generation. My rule of thumb is older or younger by 5 years as it’s hard to relate to those who have not gained the wisdom that comes from life’s experiences. Embracing your maturity and wisdom is a powerful realization that will help set you free. It took me a while to understand what makes me tick. I got tired of trying to change myself because I didn’t understand myself. Life is much easier now. Good luck and stay strong, you deserve the best.

truelove

OK

Thank you for the reply. The generational question. I see your point but i think the other side of the argument needs to be addressed. Any takers??:)

Thank you for the encouragement by the way:)

Ok, not an idiot

I guess I could have left the last part out because it was a side note and obviously took away fully from my real point.

Please don’t discount that its easier to identify flaws in people of the same. Mind.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

Oh no I got your point. Yes passionate people are easy targets it seems because our emotions are more stronger and intense. They feed off of this intensity and I believe my sp would say things and do things just to see how emotional I would get. There was one time she told me about cheating on me and I cussed her out. She just sat there and looked emotionless. Boy was I manipulated! Then she called me on being abusive as if out of nowhere I call her a b#$CH etc etc…Any normal passionate person would have likely reacted to this in that way. Especially since I couldn’t just leave at the time. SO much to say. Yes you are right…I am a very passionate person. I think she enjoyed the whole drama of our heated debates/arguments. She even said to me one time when I got away from her for 5 days, “I wish you would just call me and tell me to go efff off and call me a blank blank.” It was the attention she wanted period. Whether it was neative or positive. I read someplace that the best think to do is stay away and ignore. They will bark up another tree. Narcissism is a part of sociopathy apparently. Someone needs to keep these people from damaging lives in the future!!!!

Ok, not an idiot

I think there is some value in feeling bad about the relationship because taking ownership of your role is helpful in the healing properly process. I have not for one second lost sight of why I allowed myself to fall for someone like him. It is what has gotten me to where I am today. If I may be blunt. If your anything like I was, overflowing with untamed passion, or maybe call it a love for dopamine, you will soon learn that you too got what you needed at the time from the relationship. Granted you would not have used it for evil like she did. It’s a high. The crazy, for normal people, in small doses can be fun and keep the spark lit. You, I, all of us got more than we bargained for. We played with fire and got burnt. So we learn from it. What I have learned; I learned in many ways I was selfish. I wanted the feeling he gave me. I wanted him to make me happy. All the while forgetting my job was to make my partner happy. Keep in mind, this tactic would have changed nothing with him but I can’t help but be grateful for the experience as I may have never learned the lesson which will help me in future relationships. The lesson being that if I love someone it is my job to make them happy. If in turn they make no effort to make me happy then it’s no match. That i want To be with someone who when I wake up every morning I ask myself what I can do today to make them happy because it makes me happy in the healthiest of ways is now what I strive for. It’s amazing the transformation for example, your having a bad day and u get a call and instead of acting sad you act like you’ve had the best day ever. You then continue to have a great conversation and all of a sudden your day is really great. There is a time and for venting. Anyway I hope this makes sense to you. To recap, I didn’t know how to give as much as i do now. Had I known I may not have gotten caught up because I quickly would have identified what he wasn’t giving and seen his desire to tap into, what is typically charming in small doses, the crazy aka passionate side of me. He gave me nothing but a dopamine rush and I guess I gave him what he wanted. Learn and become a better person for the right one.

Dave

truelove,

Mine did the same, she would say very hurtful things, things that lowered my self esteem, eventually I would get upset and raise my voice, or tell her shes acting like a b##ch, she would on occasion get physically in my face and yell, telling me im a POS, and a loser, and im just using her, she would keep doing this until I would get so angry I would throw something or hit an object, then proceed to tell me how violent and abusive I am. I never in my life have acted like that around any woman but her, I told her this several times and of course she didn’t believe me, she would say yeah right if you did it with me you acted this way with others.

Mine also had some bi-sexual tendencies. I know she has some female encounters years before I met her, but I never knew of any while I was with her, although judging by paintings on the walls, and some things she said, I think she still finds women sexually attractive and just wont tell me cause shes scared ill tell everyone.

She was the most sexually energized woman I ever been with, I mean she wanted it more than a man!! And many times it was her chasing me for it (which I liked cause then I didn’t have to chase it wondering if I would get told no lol) Once our son was born that all stopped, her sex drive went down the tubes for a whole year, then some came back, then after my daughter was born, she got almost back to what I would say is average but never near what she was the first year.

If you’ve seen my comments on here, I have always said she used sex as her way of making up,,,she would not apologize, and rarely could we speak of the problem without arguing again as she always justified it, or claimed it was my fault, so instead we would go silent treatment for a few days then poof she would magically hop in the shower one night as if nothing ever happened. I didn’t mind it the first couple years but after that I got sick of that, made me feel like a stupid piece of meat, like some dumb caveman, and it wasn’t helping the problem, only putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

Listen to the others on here and just enjoy the blessing that you weren’t married or had kids with this woman, cause it would have hurt 10 times worse and that’s saying a lot cause I know your hurting bad now and you have every right too, its messed up when men/women play with others feelings like toys.

Mine slapped a civil protection order on me last week claiming that 2 months ago I physically harmed her when she is the one who initiated the contact that night, now I have to go to court next week and fight this without a lawyer, so I have to write up a statement for myself as well as a list of questions when I put her on stand, then questions for my two witnesses who seen the marks on my body and know our history. Thankfully one of my witnsses knows both of us, he has known her longer than me, I met him through her, he was married to one of her good friends, so that will help, and my friends sister was on the phone with me twice the night we fought and she heard some of the commotion.

I get nervous as hell when all eyes are on me like that, but ill be damned if I go down without defending myself from bogus accusations that I assaulted a female!!!!

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

I am passionate but not an addict with the passion. All I ever wanted from this person was to love and be loved, period. No ulterior motives etc. I disagree with you about me looking at what part I played because my intentions were honest and true. I believe once I heal more, it would benefit me to look at why I was an easy target and how I can protect myself in the future. One thing I can say is that I was naive and thought people in general wanted what was best for everyone involved. You know, the glass half full attitude. It is likely that when I was assessed by her, she saw that I was a passionate person (emotional zest). Zestful people can have their emotions manipulated much easier than others. You are right though about the strong attraction that I found out can be attributed to her high testosterone level. I guess maybe the dopamine was what kept me coming back for more.

On a side note, the picture of the girl at the beginning of this article looked a lot like her:) Just thought that was strange.

Also I thought about how she had a language concerning truth and lies that blew me away! For example, when I asked her about her ex, she said that he had a gf and that he was a jerk, creep, weirdo etc. Later when I found out about her cheating on me with him, I asked her just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean you wouldn’t frack him. She gave a duper delight smirk that would make any seasoned sociopath proud.
Also I later found out that she didn’t think sleeping with a woman was cheating. She told me this later on. Oh yea did I mention that we had clearly agreed to me monogamous? All she had to do if she wanted to have an open relationship is tell me! Also I was open to experimenting sexually with her as she had asked me about this often. Side note, no I am not a sex addict or perverted etc. Just cared about this person and wanted be with her. But I think she enjoyed the deception and duping me too much. Doing things behind my back that would cause the most damage emotionally when she shared out of callousness rather than conscience. So psychopaths have their own language that allows them to not even consider truth or right and wrong. It was like she could not even define truth without it being mixed with some kind of lie and/or deception.

Another type of deception was while she was sleeping with multiple partners, she had asked me if it was ok for her to go to the beach with a gf to a guyfriend’s beachhouse who I know she wasn’t interested in. She did this so that I would think she was being honest and could be trusted. Some real devious crap here let me tell ya!!! I could tell other examples but I think you get the point. I was only with this person for 7 months off and on…

Ok, not an idiot

Don’t fool yourself, no one hates to share more than a sociopath. They want you to share but they don’t want to. It’s an ego bust and that’s what they are trying to protect at all costs. Her taunts using other sexual desires were well calculated. Question; where you really open to an open relationship? Have you asked yourself why you would share? My guy loved to tell me about all the girls who hit on him. At one point he admitted his intention was to get my attention so I would step things up. This was at the beginning and there was no way I could step it up anymore unless I acted jealous and started a fight hummmm.

I’m curious, imagine the same exact girl. You meet her and she provides no drama. This means the passion is not as intense and the sex not as electric. What quality would “she” need to possess to make up for the deficit? Would you still like her without the drama? You don’t have to answer publicly but I think it’s worth an honest pondering within. I ask you this because I have asked myself the same question over and over again. I now know the answer for me but I think it’s worthy of answering for yourself.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot wrote:

“Don’t fool yourself, no one hates to share more than a sociopath. They want you to share but they don’t want to. It’s an ego bust and that’s what they are trying to protect at all costs. Her taunts using other sexual desires were well calculated. Question; where you really open to an open relationship? Have you asked yourself why you would share? My guy loved to tell me about all the girls who hit on him. At one point he admitted his intention was to get my attention so I would step things up. This was at the beginning and there was no way I could step it up anymore unless I acted jealous and started a fight hummmm.

I’m curious, imagine the same exact girl. You meet her and she provides no drama. This means the passion is not as intense and the sex not as electric. What quality would “she” need to possess to make up for the deficit? Would you still like her without the drama? You don’t have to answer publicly but I think it’s worth an honest pondering within. I ask you this because I have asked myself the same question over and over again. I now know the answer for me but I think it’s worthy of answering for yourself.”

I wasn’t wiling to share her with tom, dick and harry; even though that what happened essentially. She had asked me about watching her with another girl and how I felt about that etc. Then she asked me if I would want to join in if I had a chance, hypothetically speaking. Little did I know that she was gauging my response and then planned to cause even more hurt by having a threesome with tom, dick and harry and tell me when it would hurt the most. Kind of like being stabbed and then having the knife turned. Think about it. Its bad enough that she slept with guys behind my back but then to have threesomes??!! So I was open to her bisexuality but not her dual secret heterosexual tendencies. Oh yea she told me that I was the best sex partner she ever had!!! Wow I guess that ones a lie as well.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

If it’s a lie, let it be a lie. Her opinion of you in any capacity doesn’t count. AND–Would you like to be the dream lover of a SOCIOPATH?? ewwwwwww
Change ur mindset about her. She wasnt ur lover, she was ur predator, ur tormenter.
And her prey was ur SOUL.

truelove

U r rite on there sista:)
The last time I had sex with her was gross and mechanical….Once I knew what she was on the inside, no amount of physical attraction could help. Hence the last time i saw here was this last time being with her. I also saw that she was into exchanging instead of loving and caring. I read somewhere that spaths are this way. She offered to sleep with me to help her with modeling preparations etc. I would have helped her without expecting anything, she knew that. I guess the whole exchange was deviant and she liked it. It was just another confirmation that I was dealing with a bad person all around. WOW! She was this way with others likely, that is gross!! The more and more I think about this, the more it becomes shocking at how I stooped so low to pretend a bad apple was a golden one high on the tree…I was so easily manipulated by sex! Feel like a dumb caveman!!!…lol
Yea real dumb caveman! Got tested for every STD and still awaiting results!!
Well I gotta laugh about this at some point anyway:\
I remember her asking me about how I felt about relationships and I told her I was a one woman man. She told me she was a one man woman. I think she had here fingers crossed as well as her twisted soul. She probably thought she was a one man woman at that moment but truth is so relative with them. They define what is true and make rules about it and don’t tell you unless they confess it or you find out…then they redefine truth again. Very devious characters and I still am blown away by it all…

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

True her opinion does not count. My pet dog Bear is more human than her. Seriously not joking.
You are right, she was not my lover nor friend; she was my tormentor in a convincing disguise.
Evil people and so unhappy to get off on making others unhappy!! What a sad, sick existence they must live. Their own pathology could be punishment enough for these monsters. As long as they are prevented from spreading their poison.
NO MORE! Yet her negative influence I m still scraping off my soul. Time I hear helps. Anyway thank you, I get a lot from your comments and challenging questions as I know they come from a good heart:)

Ok, not an idiot

I wonder if their goal is to hurt or is that a byproduct of their desire to extort all your emotion no matter the cost. Your hurt is just a consequence they must deal with in order to drain you even more. I’m not sure they even care if you hurt or not, so long as they get what they want. This leads me to my next question; 2 S-Paths meet up. It has to happen from time to time. I wonder what that looks like. Is it drama x 1000 or will they go their own ways because they see themselves in the other. Would it be the ultimate challenge?

Regarding the comment “the best sex she ever had” first I think it’s OK to assume that is true and not just because she is so young (after all based on your writings she has had a few) but because it is a pride thing and guarantee with the right person, what she says would be true. To the wrong person you could be the worst but to the right person you could be the best. Don’t think for one second that she is the best you will ever have, assuming you told her the same thing, know that she is not at all the best you will ever have. Promise!!

I wanted to touch on something that may cause controversy; I hope my intent comes across. I notice more men on this site than one would think. I think it’s important to keep in mind when raising children that boys seem to me to be the most delicate of the human race. I would not be surprised if more men were affected by these S-Paths and just don’t say anything. It’s been my experience with 3 brothers and a son that men want so badly to be loved by a good woman. The instinct for starting a family with a good woman is at the top and also It’s as if their masculinity rides on it and when they fall they fall hard. I believe men may be even more susceptible to these perpetrators than woman. Now a day we raise our girls to be strong and smart and independent and it’s working. When I hear things like “my brother is 25 and lives at home but my parents have hope because his girlfriend is a nursing student so she can take care of him” horrifies me as it’s the next step in the emasculation of men. We coddle our boys way too much and I believe this hurts them and makes them a target. I think sometimes when rising boys we ignore this and assume they are tuff and strong. Reality as I see it, that describes our girls, not necessarily our boys. All this to say, parents, our boys break so much easier than our girls. It’s worth keeping in mind when dealing with the raising of children.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

Wow you have touched on some good issues I haven’t thought about and are very insightful to say the least!

“I wonder if their goal is to hurt or is that a byproduct of their desire to extort all your emotion no matter the cost. Your hurt is just a consequence they must deal with in order to drain you even more. I’m not sure they even care if you hurt or not, so long as they get what they want. This leads me to my next question; 2 S-Paths meet up. It has to happen from time to time. I wonder what that looks like. Is it drama x 1000 or will they go their own ways because they see themselves in the other. Would it be the ultimate challenge?”

I think they can both enjoy hurting another emotionally and also be a byproduct of trying to extract what they want from their target. In my case, I believe she wanted my undying love and attention for only her. When I found out she hooked up with her ex, I went on a dating site and found her on there!!! She kinda stalked me on there; didn’t want me to even think of anyone else. Hypocritical to the extreme!! She never wanted money or things like that but she sucked all my time and energy focusing and thinking about a person who truly wasn’t a real person…She stole my time and focused energy since I am a one woman man and even when things went crap, it was difficult for me to get focus off of this female monster. She temp. got what she wanted but she wanted to extract more and I cut it at the root. She became crazy obsessed and must have called and texted a coupe hundred times in a week to keep control over me…It was like withdrawal from drugs from what I understand from people I know. She was like an octopus with me. I was like her favorite play toy to kill the boredom in her life. She was always bored all the time. Even when we were doing kool stuff..
I have seen her with a guy who was a narcissist and they clearly don’t like one another. The reason is that they both want to be the center of attention and the one to extract from others. There is a territorial element happening without them even knowing it I believe. Someone ought to write a joke about this encounter:)
I was at a bar with Jess and a big dude sat on the other side of it. She said to me that she wonders why some guys just look at her like she is a guy. I said I have no idea. Now I do understand. She has a high testasterone level even though she looks feminine. She also had unusually strong upper body strength now that I think about it. She massaged my back one time and it felt like it was a big sweedish woman with strong arms! Seriously I am not making this up. I mean she looks like the girl in the heading on this story of mine. So I believe there is a dynamic that occurs. Two predators don’t get along when there is prey to be had…or someone to let them suck all the time, energy, emotions from just to suit their needs and wants, ego trip boost…you name it.

“Regarding the comment “the best sex she ever had” first I think it’s OK to assume that is true and not just because she is so young (after all based on your writings she has had a few) but because it is a pride thing and guarantee with the right person, what she says would be true. To the wrong person you could be the worst but to the right person you could be the best. Don’t think for one second that she is the best you will ever have, assuming you told her the same thing, know that she is not at all the best you will ever have. Promise!!”

She told me that she has had a lot of sex in her short life. Yea, it was an ego boost for me to be honest. She told me she was with 15 diff. guys. Then it was 30 a couple months later:) So likely it was around 60. My exp. is much lower. I think you are right. If at first it was all testasterone and depamine from her and myself with one sided emotional response, I imagine with a normal, healthy empath, this would be better as without emotions, sex is just like blowing your nose only more intense. Now that I think about it, we would have sex and it seemed like at times near the end, she was just riding a bike or something. Just doing it to, well….do it!

“I wanted to touch on something that may cause controversy; I hope my intent comes across. I notice more men on this site than one would think. I think it’s important to keep in mind when raising children that boys seem to me to be the most delicate of the human race. I would not be surprised if more men were affected by these S-Paths and just don’t say anything. It’s been my experience with 3 brothers and a son that men want so badly to be loved by a good woman. The instinct for starting a family with a good woman is at the top and also It’s as if their masculinity rides on it and when they fall they fall hard. I believe men may be even more susceptible to these perpetrators than woman. Now a day we raise our girls to be strong and smart and independent and it’s working. When I hear things like “my brother is 25 and lives at home but my parents have hope because his girlfriend is a nursing student so she can take care of him” horrifies me as it’s the next step in the emasculation of men. We coddle our boys way too much and I believe this hurts them and makes them a target. I think sometimes when rising boys we ignore this and assume they are tuff and strong. Reality as I see it, that describes our girls, not necessarily our boys. All this to say, parents, our boys break so much easier than our girls. It’s worth keeping in mind when dealing with the raising of children. ”

This one is my favorite insight. Yes I believe men may suffer more because women spaths have so much more camouflage. Therefore once a man feels like something is wrong with the woman but not sure, the fact that she is the so called, “weaker sex”, causes that much more confusion. Most men have a caring image of women in general from their experience with their mother growing up. To believe a woman like their mother is capable of being diabolical and conniving, is almost reprehensible!
For me this was the case. With men, I can believe that many of them are callous, conniving and without a conscience. Its the propensity for greater aggressiveness and so called, “stronger sex” where society expects men to be rather insensitive and arrogant at times. Look at hollywood; many leading men are full blown sociopaths! Its ingrained in society that being a player, manipulator etc is edgy, sexy and cool. Men are more suseptable to pain and damage from a female predator as opposed to vice versa. Also women support one another more in general when they encounter a sp. Men go back in their caves and lick their wounds without sharing. To admit that a woman has stronger predatory skills/power to control than themselves, is difficult to admit. So men suffer more because men do not like to share their pain and do not support one another like women do. I think boys need to learn more of a nurturing side as true strength is never just masculine qualities. I could say so much more but with stop for now. Thank you for the thought provoking questions:)

aintgonnatakeitnomore

well i was just thinking about this very issue today, that there are waaaay more male spaths than women. mostly becuz our society tolerates male abuse. we tolerate men being a-holes. a woman, however doesn’t last long as an ass.
men have always had an easy time being spaths as they had no accountability. they were covered up for by their wives and had bad actions shushed-shushed by their mothers. women were taught how to endure them…now, honey, don’t go getting him upset…daddy had a hard day at work, let him alone or you’ll be sorry…for my birthday dinner? oh dear, you pick for me, you’re so good at menu selection…
we once had a neighbor whose son used to play at our house. for several yrs he did. then one day we discovered $20 missing from my daughter’s desk. he took it. i think maybe he confessed to us, or he got caught by my son, idr. anyway i said, mike, go home right now and tell ur mom what u did. he was horrified. wasnt i going to tell her?? nope, i said YOU have to. if u dont i will. go now and do it. well he did. paid it back and then the mom called me a few days later. Can we pls stop talking about it to everyone as mike’s embarrassed? HELL NO i, and we, will not (ok, i said it alot nicer lol)! HE STOLE $20 FROM A KID!! HELLO. this mother wanted to spare her son…what? natural consequences? a life lesson? idiot mom, covering up for her son. this is whats wrong with kids today–their braindead parents.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Interesting point. Yea there as more male spaths than women because their behavior is tolerated more. On the other side of the coin, women with sopath behavior isn’t as accepted in our society. Therefore I would say that there are more female spaths than statistically found due to their need and ability to camouflage. I think the male spaths are less because there may be men who act this way out of the sick acceptance of this behavior in society.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot wrote:

“I’m curious, imagine the same exact girl. You meet her and she provides no drama. This means the passion is not as intense and the sex not as electric. What quality would “she” need to possess to make up for the deficit? Would you still like her without the drama? You don’t have to answer publicly but I think it’s worth an honest pondering within. I ask you this because I have asked myself the same question over and over again. I now know the answer for me but I think it’s worthy of answering for yourself.”

This whole nightmare has made me appreciate the most important thing in any relationship…HONESTY! No drama, no lies, no deception, no duping, no manipulating…just HONESTY! Everything else is a far second! I still would have to be attracted physically but I guess this whole negative experience has made me a better person because I want character first and foremost from a woman.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

well this is interesting to me as there was no drama for quite awhile with my last. but INTENSE passion, yes. ELECTRIFYING sex, absolutely.
I
ABHOR
drama.
so if it wud have been there the first few months I wud have walked.
by the time it was, the passion & awesome sex had bonded me TIGHT to him. ive never had it as good as with him and prob will never again.
and i can live with that.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

I have a new boundary after this monstrous experience. I got this from the book by Dr. Stout and I agree. If you lie once it might have been a mistake. If you lie again, then it may have been a misunderstanding. If you lie again, you are a LIAR and the lynchpin of sociopaths is lies and deception. If I stick to this, it will end early. I think lying is drama as well.

You ought to stay open to the possibility that your ex sopath won’t be your best lover and or sex partner. Don’t give him or her that much credit as someone mentioned this to me on this chat:)

With the lie boundary, it won’t be too long before there are cracks in their stories. Of course there are many other ways to determine. It will be a combination of these factors and I am so thankful I got outa this and now will know what to look for and what to look out for! Again appreciate your comments, Thanks
William

aintgonnatakeitnomore

I just wonder, after only 3mos now, how long is it I should wait to date again. I want to. I don’t know if it’s too soon tho.
I have been sleeping again ok, I am losing wgt, walking 2x daily (in the arctic weather even, yes) and feeling alot more energy…than since I got involved with the narc to be honest, not just my physical body getting back in balance. It’s the vampire not sucking my life force dry. YAY
I am never screwing up again so I won’t even date if I shouldn’t. Hard to know when it’s ok :\

Stargazer

Dear ain’t, there is no time frame to the grieving process. But I don’t think it is about amount of time away from the spath but the work you’ve done healing the parts of you that made you vulnerable in the first place. When you’ve reached that point, you will probably know. If you are out there dating, hopefully, you can take things very slow and be observant of their behaviors and how you feel around them, paying close attention to your gut instincts.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Well yeah, as someone on here said, from here on out it’s GTFO when I feel anything but absolutely sure.
This will be my modus operandi lol
Which means I will miss out on some good guys just being normal jerks due to whatever, but rly worth getting to know.
BUT it’s OK, even JUST FINE. I no longer give the benefit of the doubt, just the way it is. I couldn’t if i wanted to, I am obviously unable to do that and stay healthy mentally and emotionally. Must be nice to be normal ~sigh~
There’s a lotta fish in the sea tho. I don’t think soulmates exist anymore after the spath did me in almost a decade ago, so I’m not sweating letting one of those fish get away.
I want to just date more than get serious with anyone. Shoot, that’s all most older guys want anyway. They are scared shitless of commitment and think they’re all such a prize rofl
Ah well, we shall see. I still dont know for sure about it.

lagioiella

Dear Wow:

Usually sociopaths can be quite charming, beautiful or handsome, and one day you’re in and the next you’re out. I have the misfortune of dating men like this, but I have to say working beside a woman who suffers from a personality disorder like your ex, who befriended (or so I thought) me, was the worst experience ever. She did everything you mentioned your girlfriend did, only she milked several men out of (that I know of) tens of thousands of dollars. She wanted them “to leave their wives, because she was their ‘soul mate’ and desperately wanted to have a house together somewhere because little her needed protection (never mind the loaded weapon she stashed under her bed).” Well, that was a lie, because she would break up with them after they gave her the cold hard cash, because there was no paper trail for legal recourse to go after her in court. This cash was usually on lines of credit or life savings with their wives. = This apple is completely rotten to the core.

It didn’t stop there. In her “friendship” with me she always told me I was her “angel of light.” Does this sound kind of like Tangina in Poltergeist?!!! I had a weird pain in my stomach when she first said it. I should have listened to my gut too. Over the first couple of months, she pumped me for information about my husband, and who I dated before him. While I drove to work, she was calling my graveyard shift husband asking him, “how good a lover am I and was he satisfied with my performance?” She went to another county, searched out two of my former married boyfriends, now divorced and slept with them. It was all about conquer, divide, and destroy with her. Never mind the hurt spouse, the hurt children, the legal mess, the cost and anything else that did not bother her conscience.

Then there was the acts of thievery: cash-sunglasses-makeup-credit cards-keys from my purse and my work supplies that went missing. The icing on the cake was someone* putting acid in my facial toner which made my face open up and bleed and scar permanently. I flew to my doctor. I told my doctor that day of the situation and she said, “Get out of there! She sounds like a person with no conscience and a serious personality disorder. People like that can manipulate the police and the courts.” She slept with the married chief of police. I gave my 30 day notice as she requested. To this day, she tells people she fired me and that I am some maniacal stalker.

I left, and she did not stop there! She drove a half an hour out of her way to drive by my house and my new employment. The sheriff told me of this far reaching woman, “I know Anny. I don’t why she would do this to you? Are you sure? You should not call her. Just write her a letter and tell her to back off.” I took his bad advice and I did. No threats just pointed language telling her how disappointed I was in her as a fellow human being. She went to the courthouse and applied for a restraining order claiming I was stalking and threatening to kill her and her son whom she neglected to say, she only had custody of one day a month. She was found to be a liar and even got a ticket for speeding off that day in front of the courthouse. There is a God and he was smiling on me that day.

Her husband found her in bed with her own brother. Ask any rapist in state prison what their family life was like growing up and 99% can tell you incestuous just like hers. She could not keep her filthy paws off her friends, coworkers, neighbors, clients and even her sister’s (who disowned her) past, present, and future significant others. The scary part is she has Hepatitis C and does not tell her lovers “because nobody told her they had it.” She pumps people for information only to hurt every single last one of them in one way or another.

If a woman tells you they do family members and do not seek psychological counseling for it, or when they did, THEY worked overtime in seducing their therapist…run like hell!!! If a woman says she is into: random sex with teenage boys, strangers, threesomes, anal sex and any other high risk (HIV/AIDS) behavior…run like hell!!! If a woman tells you that she has had to get more than a couple of restraining orders (mine had 6 last time I checked)in her lifetime against wives calling and asking her questions or rightfully telling her off, coworkers that wanted her rabid alley cat behavior to stop, and married men who wanted their money for her fake love shack back…run like hell!!! If a grown woman talks about her sexual escapades with every man or woman she comes into contact with, this is not normal or sexy…RUN LIKE HELL!!! If a woman who is 4’11”, has a peculiar sounding voice, has a fake tan, long bleach blonde hair, whose only hobby is the gym, who is now well into 50s and still dressing like a teenage pop star to attract the high school guys…REALLY RUN LIKE HELL!!! Sounds like your girlfriend took lessons from the tramp I had the misfortune of working beside.

Sadly, now when someone says they have had a life like hers and actually think it is cool, and never got proper psychological counseling, I back off. I don’t get close because I don’t ever want to be attacked by a leach again. I would rather eat glass.

truelove

lagioiella

You said it right on!!!
“It was all about conquer, divide, and destroy with her. Never mind the hurt spouse, the hurt children, the legal mess, the cost and anything else that did not bother her conscience.”

I am not sure you replied to my original post. It seemed like you did. Crazy story you have!!! Your experience with sp female makes my experience look ike a cakewalk in comparison! Was your sp bisexual like mine was? If so you would have been in even more possible danger!!

Your story reminded me of other details from my ex sp. She would tell her gfs of her “sexcapades” openly and offended a number of them apparently. Also, she would tell me her other best friends husband would text her for sex. She told me a number of times and I thought it was odd. She wanted to tell her friend but I think she liked the power trip it gave her as only a sp could understand. “My best friends husband wants me!”
Boy i feel better talking about all this. Getting it out there in fresh air it seems. Thank you for replying.

roylupton

Be thankful your not married and or have children with her. When you wise up and they find you see their phoniness and they can’t manipulate you anymore they make your life miserable hoping you’ll divorce them and they can keep their stellar image as the victim. In my case when I failed to divorce her for the sake of our 5 children (4 adult) they start a slander campaign that makes the Salem witchcraft trial pale in comparison. They do this for their image as well a leverage in court. Be grateful for your inexpensive escape besides the financial expense you could have lost everything you stood for in life including family and friends and none of them will understand because a normal human being can’t grasp the depravity that a sociopath, especially a delusional one embodies. You need to access the void for love in your life that is making you vulnerable or you are likely to repeat your mistake. My advice also is look carefully as whether someone is loving and charitable to others when they have nothing of interest to them.

truelove

roylupton

You are right. I am going through emotional pain and turmoil; still having nightmares over things that happened; but at least I wasn’t married to her and had kids by her. Good grief!!!! Thinking about that makes me shudder!!! She told me she had an abortion and then cried in my arms but now that I think about it, she was likely lying and working on my sympathy. Heck maybe she didn’t do half of what she told me with her exes than she said, but said them and stretched out the story to hurt me more. Its the purposely hurting another person emotionally that is so evil! They do this just for kicks! I am still so angry!! And get this, when I talked casually with another girl, she flipped out in a jealous rage!! Yea hypocritical and the monsters of the worst kind!!! God I am still so disgusted with this person!!! Makes me so sick as I look back on all the bs she put me through and all the while I was just this person wanting to share love and intimacy, period…As I look back at the past relationships, I seem to attract women who are this way. In that sense I do need to look at why this is and put an end to it. Thats enough outa me.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

She flipped into a jealous rage becuz she was PROJECTING. All the horrible things SHE was doing to you, she was pretending u were doing. Start thinking about wat SHE accused YOU of. Those are the things SHE was doing. FLAT OUT guarantee it.
I think that projecting is the thing i hated worst. Not that i believed it and felt guilty but that i had to listen to his crap. it was the most visible aspect of his mental illness and i cud not ignore it or explain it away. it was in my face. ~shudder~ sick sick sick narc
last contact with him he was still doing it and blameshifting and minimizing. no thanks. my wallowing with pigs days are over.

truelove

I read somewhere and I have to agree that spaths have one thing in common. THEY ARE ALL UBER EXTREME AHOLES TO THE MAX!! I also learned that there was a Native American tribe that would deal with people who lsept with their wives and stole their stuff. They would take them for a so called “hunting trip” and there would be an “accident.”
I guess the women in this tribe were sneakier or were provided for enough so didn’t need or want to live out their spath tendencies. I don’t know, but the focus was on men who did these bad things within the tribe. I heard this from Thomas Sheridan.

somebodysdream

Slim-one and stargazer I always love your comments. They are mature and right on. Thanks!

Stargazer

Truelove, I first responded to your post thinking there was close to a 20-year age difference. And you’re right; I got caught up in that and missed the point. I reread your story in the light in which you intended, that is, how you got caught up in the web of a sociopath.

It’s a really unfortunate that we all learned about sociopaths and about the love-bombing the hard way. As you detach (it will take some time), you can begin to reflect on why you stayed with her throughout the blatant abuse and why you kept trying to gain her love. I know the obvious answer is that predatory people cast this spell on their victims. But there was some responsibility we all had in excusing bad behaviors and putting up with blatant disrespect.

I once was friends with a woman who was very happy and had very high self-esteem. She dated a guy for 6 months who was on the insensitive side. But the final straw came when the anniversary of her brother’s death rolled around, and she was very sad. Her bf said, “Get over it”. That was the last straw for her. She ditched him and found a wonderful man shortly thereafter whom she married I believe. I found myself wondering why that’s all it took to make her walk, when for me, I’ve let guys treat me so much worse and still took them back. That is the question I’ve been answering over the last 20 years.

truelove

stargazer

No worries:) I know you meant well. I just hear that often about dating younger women. I do feel the 5-10 age range max is a good rule of thumb in general. Just most 20 somethings are just out to have a good time and not want to psychologically destroy others.

Yea having boundaries is key to my sanity. We all could earn a thing or two from your friend. Taking care of oneself/having high self esteem is healthy and feels pretty darn good!

Side note, Do you like astronomy?

aintgonnatakeitnomore

wow was it someone on here that said go watch I, Psychopath?
I can hardly watch it, watching him PROJECT onto the camera man/documentarist. It’s like watching me and my honeypot, my boo ~coughcoughCHOKE~~
It’s scary. Why didnt i slap his face the first time he called M.E. SelfisH???? ME??!!??
Esp at the moments he was being selfish in only the DEPTH that a narc can do.
I seriously AMAZE myself. ~shakinghead~ And sicken myself.

roylupton

Reflection for OK,not an idiot: Somethings are not common and some are? Gender specific no, intelligent, stupid, and all in between. Some things common are they have to feed their desires and even more than wealth,sex, or any other tool is their “EGO”. They study you to find your vulnerabilities and will do whatever it takes to deceive and control you, after all deception is everything to them. Observe that a cat sometimes will catch a mouse and if they are not hungry they will play with it, knocking it around and taunting it before they finally kill it. We’ve all been the mouse and sometimes if they are comfortably in control it can go on a long time but as soon as they perceive their deception and control is threatened comes the kill.

Ok, not an idiot

Well said!! You think and write well. I heard a song on the radio yesterday that speaks to what we have been speaking about. Although the whole song speaks of possible Spath tendencies, one line struck me. John Mayer’s Heartbreak Warfare says “how come the only way to know high you get me is to see how far I fall”. I think we can all relate to that!

Viewpoint

She sounds borderline… Whatever she is, she can’t help being and it’s not personal to you. She’ll yoyo between ex’s and newbies for the rest of her life if they’re willing. That wasn’t her first hospitalization either. So, she’ll be in and out of hospitals like she’s in and out of beds.
There ain’t going to be any time to relax, enjoy a home cooked meal or sit out on the back patio enjoying the garden you planted together… All the time is going to be wasted on the strife/struggle within a miserable mess. Hard for me to imagine that her being GIB is going to make up for all that’s going to the wayside for the messes in the works all the time.

That’s what you describe the last half of the relationship like. And when you talk p At age 40, I’d think you’d be running from drama, protecting your dignities and wanting someone with real prospects of a decent, peaceful and sound life. How good can the sex be between the messes to make up for what’s going to get wasted here? Did you want children? She would. Can you really wreck helpless, innocent lives?

I get it’s all still fresh for you and you’re hurting…That’s why the reality check. It was sick and twisted, it will always be for the pathology.

truelove

Viewpint

Thank you for your comment and insight. I have reclaimed my dignity and respect. I am feeling anxious, depressed, lonely etc..but to ever let another manipulate me into letting that go again; I would rather die than to ever allow another monster to victimize me. Yea I am going through trauma…An older chap who should have known better…WHAT?? Spaths are something unexpected altogether!!! If she had done the things she did without being a sp, I doubt I would have put up with it…There is just something about a dark soul that just sucked me right in and almost led me to lose myself entirely!!! Spaths are like black holes. Once who cross the threshold, their negative energy sucks you right in into fantasy world where they are the puppeteers and the ignorant are merely play toys for their lack of soul…She did seem to have borderline but then I had a friend who had this and he was a mess but deep inside he had a conscience and felt bad about his behavior. This monster I know for a fact did not truly feel bad about what she did to me. If fact she enjoyed hurting me emotionally; I saw it in her face and whenever she came “clean” she was doing me dirty at the same time. Basically I was a mouse in her eyes when I thought I was her mac daddy!..lol
By the time I figured her out, I became a wounded mouse and became stunned at realizing I had been sleeping with my greatest enemy. Or analogous to a mouse seeing a cat close up!!

I see where you would question me staying with her months after finding out about infidelity but f you have experienced a sp intimately, you would understand my illogical behavior. You have heard stories of older psychologists being duped by sp lovers and clients etc..so I question whether you know what I am talking about in the first place. I would venture you have a relative who experienced a sp or a friend…We didn’t plant anything by the way:)

Viewpoint

She sounds borderline… Whatever she is, she can’t help it and it’s not personal to you. She’s yo-yo’d between exs and newbies before. She’ been hospitalized before, too. And she’ll keep going in and out of beds and hospitals. She’s bottomless in needs because she’s actually empty and it’s terrifying because there is no refuge that can last. She keeps you exs all around her because each of you can, for a moment, ease her. She’ll say anything/do anything to keep you near and she means it at the moment but sincerity won’t hold up against what ravages in her.
It can’t be fixed. It can be tempered by the rare client spending big money and time in therapy and only because they see therapy as their only recourse. The pathology does tend to burn out at age 50 or 60 years…but whose left there after isn’t someone with vitality or purpose.
You’re age 40. You’re going to feel yourself as crazy/ridiculous for wasting the years you have left on this to see it as just as messy and miserable 20 years from now as it was this past year. You wouldn’t be spending all that time on the fruitless, no much worse: You’d be spending it in the state you are in now… Ruminating, agnonizing, pained and sick of the whole thing; including yourself.
Do you see her functioning level clearly? You indicated the hospitalization and dropping out of a facilitator role she had but the manner you spoke of those, suggested that you might not be seeing these things separate from you and for what they are: Her instabilities that seriously cut into her ability to reliably function, hold her own and stay plodding on.
I urge you stand back from you/your hurt/the great sex to see the person you are describing as evidently not suitable to make a life with unless you dreamed of a miserable, senseless and embarrassing one. God help if there were helpless children in the mix to ruin and ruin their lives because you wouldn’t see it as it really is.
I’d think at your age, you’d want not just sex but a home cooked meal, a relaxed evening, getting together with friends without worry that she’d be hooking up with one of them or making a scene,etc…. The mundane stuff but pretty important when you don’t have it.

Dave

Truelove,

Listen to viewpoint, I spent 10 years with someone like this and we had 2 kids, its a total mess, and im now sitting here attempting to kick myself in the face wondering why in the hell I stuck around for so long.

Your right viewpoint, mine was a bottomless pit of needs, no matter what I did it was not enough, or good enough for her. She too would keep exs around or other men that were not exs, I don’t know if she slept with them or not but I always fealt she kept them around as some kind of safety net for herself.

Life with her will never be normal, it might for a few days or weeks, then the ugly monster will rise from the pits of hell yet again and you will find yourself arguing, leaving the house, angry, depressed, wondering why its like this, going through silent treatment, then a few days or a week of normal then the cycle repeats, and it wont matter what you do, it will never stop, and the more feelings you get for her/him the harder it will be to leave, especially if children are involved and you will be a miserable wreck on a roller coaster ride of emotions that never stops long enough for you to exit the ride until you leave and go no contact permanently.

Trust me, this has caused me anxiety problems as well ill admit I started drinking way more than normal for several years now as it helped keep me calm and curb the anxiety attacks (self medication basically)

Let me show you how these people work, maybe some part of them cares but as viewpoint showed what ravages in them overrides any common sense or feelings for another. I got to drinking so much I decided to quit cold turkey, she drinks but not often, she complained about mine so I told her one day I think I may have a problem and I should just cut alcohol out of my life, she agreed. I asked her not to bring it in the house and she said “your not going to tell me I cant drink in my own home” so I said well at least hide it and be discreet about it. Well I would see her fill a glass full of ice then walk back to the bedroom and come out with whiskey/coke, or have a glass of wine, I told her at least put it in a coffee cup so I cant see what it is, she even smiled one day when I caught her. I went 2 weeks without so much as a sip, I found her stash one day and had a shot and a couple beers, when she got home I told her about this and she flew off the handle, but guess why? Not because of concern for me, but because “that’s my alcohol that I payed for, I cant believe you drank my shit”

I am not making this up, no concern for my well being or me being man enough to admit I had a problem, only concern for her stuff and the money she spent.

truelove

Dave

I really do feel for but cannot understand the depth you suffered. I have a friend who was married to an abusive woman for 30 years. She dumped him a couple years ago and he wound up in a psych ward for severe depression. Going through years of abuse like that I cannot imagine! I was only involved with this girl for like 7 months and I feel like I went through the wringer with all the racing thoughts, depression, anxiety and nightmares at all the lies etc…Oh yea the more and more I have distanced myself, the more and more of lies I am realizing! She was never honest and upfront with me from the beginning! She was especially tricky because she seems to be so caring. She was intelligent but lacked common sense. She studied psychology in college or took some classes. Anyway I am still pissed off and am hard inside. I go shopping out and about and can’t help but to be angry at people in general. I know this is a part of the healing process but I just had no idea people could be so evil. I know it happens like stalin, hitler, murderers etc…but to meet a girl who seemed so sweet and mature etc…actually be such an ugly soul…Its the whole contrast of what is on the inside and outside of a person…I was especially taken back because I thought most women were kind and caring. I don’t know, I am still into the 1st month of NContact..

roylupton

Remember the phrase “They walk among us” The mental health association estimates that 1% to 4% of the population are sociopath,even tough many of these might be in the milder catageory they are all around us.
By the wey there was an article I found very interesting in the Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk, VA.) from International news I believe Septeember 7, 2013. It was titled “Loyal to the end” as the last of Hitler’s 2 bodyguards died. The article went on and on quoting him as to what a prince of a guy he was and the best boss anyone could ever have. I recommend it to everyone to explain that most of the people who haven’t been bitten by the viper can’t believe that they’re not a wonderful person and they readily serve as their enablers. They refuse to look at their actions.

Dave

Truelove,

Its like the old saying, 1 day in jail is 1 too many! Yeah I know mine was 10 years and yours was 7 months, but you fell for her hard, I was in love with mine probly within 3-4 months, I just didn’t see any signs until after I moved in, and it was too late, she was pregnant, and im not going to leave a pregnant woman.

Mine too is intelligent but at times lacking common sense. I too get angry just looking at people cause in my mind I wonder if they are like her. Mine seemed sweet and mature, and just had it rough growing up, I though if I loved her and stayed loyal/faithful it would make her trust me and be happy, boy was I wrong. The sweet innocent soul that was wronged as a child that made me so happy for 8 months turned into a raging monster from hell that did nothing but make me feel horrible about myself while she got away with bloody murder. She got everything she wanted from me, she got the 2 kids she always wanted, a house, a solid family life for once, her own business, a loyal man who ran said business and did things many men don’t (cooking dinner, doing laundry, helping clean, taking kids to and from school, ect…) and all I ever heard was how she was responsible for everything and how little I did, how hard of a worker she was and how lazy I was, how smart she was and how dumb I was, how she carried me and took care of me, how I should feel lucky because of her that I had a job (nevermind that business was my idea and I helped get it off the ground) then in one breath telling me she failed to give me the credit I deserved for being more of a team member to the business, to saying “you don’t do enough for the business, if not for me you wouldn’t have a job”

on and on and on and on the list goes, I could sit here all night and write stuff about this 10 year illusion I lived!!!

truelove

Viewpoint

Good points all around. She has been in and out of hospitals. She has been keeping all her guy “friends” around just to get a quick fix. She is getting sober from alcoholism and pills. Yea you are right. What have I been doing wasting my precious time?
I see where there are borderline traits, but just the lack of empathy and dupers delight leans toward psychopathy.

I need to rebuilt my social life etc. Practically non-existent at this point unfortunately. Yea being early 40s. I am not your typical 40 something. I was that way in my 30s…dinner with friends, wine parties etc. God I need a change of scenery and away from the east coast! Grew up here and tired of living here…

Ok, not an idiot

Funny you say that about relocating. When I made the break and things were looking up I thought to myself, it’s got to get better then this, this is too easy. Then it hit me, Most of my life i wanted to visit a specific city. Always felt a draw. So I bought a ticket and went for a week alone. It was amazing. Better than I could have imagined. I came back eager to get back to that city and renewed as I now have another goal. I wont make any rash decisions as I must plan and be sure i’m not running away. I figure in the next 2-3 years I will have everything in place and if I still want to go, I know I am not running away. I will be ready to start my new life anew. It’s exciting really. Anyway, point is explore ideas as it keeps your mind busy and don’t rush into anything. Explore and enjoy.

Stargazer

Truelove, there are still a lot of decent, caring people in the world. My take-away from what I went through with the spath and other assorted disordered men over the years is to take things very slowly. I now take a long time to get to know a man, and I insist developing a non-sexual friendship. I don’t jump into bed with a guy at the first sign of attraction like I used to. In fact, if the man starts discussing sex too quickly or if I don’t feel safe around him in a friendship way, then there is NO sex, no matter how attracted I am to him.

In a way I miss my youth and innocence when I just let myself fall for every guy I was attracted to and let the chips fall where they would. But now if I see a guy looking at me with a predatory stare or bringing up sex in every conversation or standing too close, or love-bombing me too soon, I see those things as red flags. I even look for yellow flags, such as a guy who will put me on hold to take another call or is attached at the ear to a cell phone. I look at how a person views their life, whether they take responsibility for their actions and learn from their mistakes. These are signs of character, and they have become so very important to me in friends and potential partners. If you are looking for a long-term relationship, getting hot and heavy with someone early on is counterproductive to that goal. This does not excuse anyone for being deceptive, sadistic, and manipulative. But it gives you a better shot at protecting yourself. If you do all those things, there are STILL no guarantee with relationships. But there comes a point when the desire for connection is worth taking another risk. It takes time to get there after a serious betrayal.

I agree with you that I don’t think your ex is borderline. Borderlines are not sadistic like yours was. They just suffer from an intense fear of abandonment which they need to act out repeatedly. Yours sounds seriously high on the antisocial scale, such as with a sociopath.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

being put on hold has got to be the rudest thing we’ve invented in a long long time. no one puts me on hold. I hang up. someone else is more important? well i’ll help u out with that…click. i ignore any call i get coming in. i am not that important lol. the world will go on just fine if i listen to the vmail in 20 min.
i dont get that concept of call waiting. i call it call RUDE.
ok, vent over…:0

Dave

star,

im not sure what mine is, but I don’t think she is sadistic. I think she is a borderline with narcissitic mixed in. Ive told you all before she has said please never leave me, or we just cant be apart ect ect…yet shes the one always kicking me out. She is deathly afraid of what others think of her, and I believe she projects tons of what she feels onto me, for instance her mother and step father would get in shouting/shoving matches, her mom would pack her and the car up but always got back together with the guy sometimes not even making it out of the driveway, similar between me and her for 10 years. I often told her that she treated me like her mother did her. “nothing is good enough and her shit don’t stink”

When she says things like I don’t care about her and the kids, or she thinks I want to kill her, or I treat her like shit ect ect..I wonder if shes not projecting her own feelings onto me as if im the one feeling that way?? Shes overly controlling as she is a scared little girl at heart, scared of abandonment, scared of what others think of her, scared of failure, that business we had, no matter how much better it was doing then what everyone thought, she always was freaking out thinking it was on the verge of collapsing or wasn’t doing very well ect ect…she always seems to subconsciously be doing things simply to please others in other words just to prove them wrong or prove a point of “hey im awesome look what I just did” she put herself through college just to prove to her parents she did something good and did it without them, she told me this to my face one day.

This sounds strange but I honestly, well part of me feels sorry for her,,for what she went through and how it has effected her life, shes so paranoid, and hell bent on control and keeping up this persona of perfection to others that she doesn’t even realize she just ruined her own family, I fully believe shes so paranoid and tells the lies so often that she truly believes this is all my fault. I also believe she looked at me as a problem to her image since im a convicted felon and never made tons of money at my jobs, at first her friends told me she was highly defensive of me, later I think she started telling one too many tall tales about me and people got the wrong idea, plus add in the felonies , and I think they started telling her im a loser, which in her eyes made her look bad for choosing me. Ive seen kindess in her, whether it was real or just done to serve a motive, well probly both at times. All these years I used to tell her how much potential she had to be such a great person as well as a great wife and mother, now I know why I said all that, cause I knew something wasn’t right and she wasn’t reaching her potential, she thinks she is by keeping up this false image of perfection, when deep down she is terrified at heart of many things.

ill shut up now lol

Dave

star,

hmm side note, I wonder two things about the whole kicking me out once a year, one I think it was a control factor to let me know whos boss and to mess with my reality and make me feel at fault,,,two I think she did it so others would see that she left me and think it must have been my fault, that way she didn’t look flawed or faulty?

truelove

Stargazer

Thank you for the good advice. You are right that it is better to get to know a person before even considering it becoming sexual. For sopaths, that is not a problem but empathic people, leads to emotional attachment quickly and I think thats why sopaths rush sex so quickly to get their claws in us fast. They know us better than we know ourselves many times!! Wow I can’t believe I said that but its true!It is going to take me some time before I can state dating again and not be sexual within the first month or two. Anyway I need to be patient and good to myself. Life is difficult enough as it is. Why there are people just to make it that much more difficult/dangerous? Thoughts going through my head…

Stargazer

Dave,

Your relationship with your wife reminds me very much of a relationship I had almost 30 years ago. I had deep abandonment issues, and he was a heavy drinker and recreational drug user, and those things had caused him to lose his job and eventually his house. Neither of us had the consciousness to create a healthy relationship. We were very co-dependent, blaming each other for our problems and expecting each other to be the other’s caretaker. We both had fundamental problems that we had not addressed. We verbally abused each other and fought like crazy. But we were too attached to split up. I won’t go into all the details. Looking back nearly 30 years later, I was not in a good place when I met him. He rescued me from a bad living situation, and I became dependent on him for a place to live and a car to drive. Eventually, he was my only emotional connection, which was not healthy. He loved me like crazy, but could be very controlling and unwilling to accept any responsibility for our problems. He blamed me for everything. He felt that since he took care of me so much, he had certain expectations of what I would do for him. Some of those things I didn’t want to do, like giving him my bank card to take money out of my bank account for food. Granted, I would have just bought the food or even given him the money. But I have certain personal boundaries. When I wouldn’t let him cross that boundary, he considered me as extremely selfish and withdrew the use of his vehicle so I couldn’t get to work, which sabotaged my job. We basically were too enmeshed with each other to have healthy independent lives. We both had periods of leaving or being kicked out and then coming back together. There was a lot of drama. Even after just a year and a half, I had developed an emotional bond with him, his friends, and his life. It was very difficult to break away. So I cannot even imagine what it’s like after 10 years! The thing that finally broke the bond was when I met another guy. I was too emotionally weak to make a clean break with my ex, so when he found out about the new guy, it hurt him deeply and he lashed out at me. We never spoke again. I bet if you asked him today, he would still tell you that I am evil and a “bucket of misery” as he used to call me. And I would say he was an alcoholic who refused to accept any responsibility for anything.

Looking back all those years ago, I realize how enmeshed we were. I moved into his home hardly knowing him. Within two weeks we were sleeping together and professing our love for each other. This is how I rolled back then. I believed Bob was the right man in my life to save me, just as you say your wife saved you from a very dark place. But when his controlling side (and my borderline side) came out, we just couldn’t cope and we self-destructed.

It took nearly 30 years to learn that no one can save me except me. No one else is responsible for my happiness but me. It is not anyone’s job to help me break any addictions of fix my problems. And until I get a handle on these things, I will not really be a good partner for someone else. I have to be right for me before I can be right for someone else. If someone disrespects me or violates my boundaries, it is MY responsibility to uphold them – not theirs. If I let them do it again and again, the responsibility falls squarely on me! I need to find out why. Was I so out of touch with my anger? Did I think if I could just put up with them, they would change? Was I too emotionally bonded to leave? These are things I need to look at and fix BEFORE I go out and find someone else.

Dave, I hope it doesn’t take you 30 years to learn this like it did for me. But when I hear how really dysfunctional the two of you are together, I can’t help thinking that you really really need to get away and get some help for your own issues.

I find myself being curious about your past felony that you mentioned in another post, what it was, and how you learned from it. Though you don’t need to share if you don’t want.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

See there’s another example of being called selfish when either
A) no one’s being selfish, not giving ur card out if u don’t want is completely different from using his vehicle for WORK, if that had already been agreed, especially
or
B)*he’s* being the selfish one
It’s all a bunch of rot. U were sick too, Stargazer, but he was abusive. Thats just makes me so sad to read these stories of projection like i endured.
I found a Dr Phil show on utube about NPDs. the 2nd person on it is the NPD i was with, except female. It’s hard to watch it BUT
she KNOWS and admits she’s a narc.
AND SHE WANTS TO CHANGE.
I started crying watching it, just suddenly. CAN narcs rly change?? With the narc i knew, its a moot point. he could see Jesus 2mrw & change. It dont change a thang as to the hell he created & DENIED for TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LONG. move on, hon.
but can others rly change? i think they can be empathic, they only have to have 5 out of the 9 traits to be clinically diagnosed.
BUT then again, HOW can someone see something from another’s view and ABUSE THEM?? war wouldnt happen if we cud see another person’s view.

Stargazer

Dear ain’t, you’re so right. The things he did – taking away the car, etc., were abusive. But one of the things I’ve learned in the 23 years since I left him is that I really need to know who I am and what I want in life in order to share my life with another. And until this happens, I will attract rescuers and other co-dependent types. This is a must, and I have never really understood it until recently. I have been on a path of discovering who I am. And it has nothing to do with him – he was a catalyst along the way. The one that came after him (the one I left him for) was a real doozy. Someday maybe I’ll tell that story. Again, I was young and vulnerable and learning – learning about men, learning about myself. The lessons were very painful – letting myself be controlled by men. But now it’s not about them and what they were. It’s about what I want from a man and what I don’t want. Because of all these past relationships, I have a better idea of what works and doesn’t work.

I mentioned in the post about energy work that I can sense people’s energies very easily. I recently was talking with a man on the dating site whose energy was truly wonderful. I don’t think we match up in other ways, but I really really appreciated the kind of person he is. And there is another guy I have actually dated a few times whom I really like. But he is a little ADD with his cell phone, though he’s actually trying to change that habit for me. I can sense his energy too – the things I like and the things I don’t like. Fortunately for me I have dated SO VERY many men in my 53 years, that I just get a sense of what type of man they are when I meet them, and how it feels to be around them. I watch very closely and don’t jump in too quickly. This puts me more at choice in my relationships, rather than acting on physical attraction.

For instance, I dated a guy last year whom I was very attracted to. He was a real take-charge Leo man, very confident, and a blast to be around. He was very attracted to me. After knowing each other for 6 months and going out on a few dates, he took me on a cruise. I deliberately did not have sex with him, though we kissed and cuddled a lot. After the cruise, he approached me in a very sexual way. And I’ll have you know I was DYING to sleep with him. But there was something missing – the emotional connection was not completely there. I actually fled his house that night because I knew if I stayed, I would sleep with him. And I knew I would get attached. And I knew I would get burned. In the past I would not have resisted. But the new me is holding out for a man of higher moral character. This is me exercising my choices by simply observing my feelings and sensing their energy. When I got scared and ran, I called to tell him that I do not do casual sex. That’s when he told me he does not want a “girlfriend”. And he never called me again. So my instincts served me well – I had dodged a bullet.

To let that relationship 23 years ago get to the point where I was abused, I first had to be in a totally financially dependent position. I had no other place to live and no car to drive. I was totally dependent on him. I will never get to that point again. So I don’t ever expect a man to control me like that again.

Dave

Star,

I don’t mind talking about my record, I was 19 when I did the crimes, im 34 now and have never been arrested since.

It was all theft related, no drugs or violence, I have nothing violent on my record. I spent 14 months in state prison, had a fiancé and a baby on the way (she knew I was getting locked up before we hooked up) she left me after 8 months of jail, married some guy and refused to let me see my kid. When I got out was really down in the dumps, and having problems finding work and the work I did find was garbage dead end low paying jobs. Was in and out of college, then I met her. I spoke once on here how I met her and I don’t mind sharing this, I caught herpes from a girl in 2003, I met my ex on a H dating site in 2004. So yeah she kinda sparked my life and made me happy again, but the instant we moved in together she changed, I mean I went to work in a month after moving in, payed bills, helped around the house, but she still wasn’t happy, sex life was phenomenal but still not happy, she just got more pushy and demanding, then I found she was lying about talking to an ex.

As far as what I learned of the felony you ask? I learned that first off I don’t want to risk shit like that and spend my life in that rathole,,and more important when I got my first apartment after that and worked for my things I realized one day coming home from work when opening the door “how would I feel if I walked in and all my nice stuff I worked for was gone”? (I committed burglary) It was then that I truly fealt bad for what I did and not just cause I got caught.

I honestly think we made an awesome couple except for her outburst and constant blaming me for things, we made it far in 10 years, but she would always say things like “I don’t feel like im going anywhere with you” WTF?? neither of us had much of shit when we met, now have 2 kids, a nice house with nice stuff, and a business with a dream to save up and move closer towards the country and out of the city, kids are healthy and doing great in school, company was doing great, so I have no clue why she made remarks like that other than to just make me feel bad or guilt trip me into doing even more, who knows, all I know is I cant go back, she will not change and she has admitted it, ill wind up out on the street again come next thanksgiving after helping her pay bills and progress her business while she keeps ownership over it all.

Thanks but no thanks, it just feels so weird, as im 100 miles away back in my hometown and I just don’t feel like I belong here, I feel it in my bones, everything is all wrong, but I cant go back, don’t know how else to explain it, it confuses me too.

Stargazer

Dave, thanks so much for sharing your very personal information. It really helps me to get a better sense of who you are. Everyone’s story is different and yet I see parts of myself mirrored in all of them, so I’m always learning something.

I am so very sorry that you invested so many years of your life with someone that you hoped could change, someone whom you believed loved you deep down, or would or could with the right encouragement. All I can say is that when this has happened to me and I found out the person really didn’t love me, the betrayal took a long time to get over. Years.

The one thing you have on your side is that you are very young. You are 20 years younger than I am (God, I feel old LOL). You have your whole life ahead of you. I have never been in a 10-year relationship so I cannot imagine the level of grief. Try as best as you can to have some structure – a place to go to, even if it’s a support group for ex-felons or a divorce support group. A men’s group has been helpful for a friend of mine who went through a very painful divorce. You also need to really feel the pain and let it just totally wash over you when it comes up. Don’t medicate yourself with food or alcohol or whatever your drug of choice is. Just let yourself feel broken and grieve.

All the rest of advice is very valid, but will come later when you’re a little less raw. Please just take good care of yourself.

Dave

Thanks star,

And yeah the 10 years make it much more difficult. I believe much of my problem is looking at myself then my friends and I see one is a firefighter, one is a bank manager ect ect..here I am a convicted felon working 10 dollar an hour jobs in my 30s and it makes me feel like a failure.

When my fiancé left me with my newborn it crushed me, and we were only together for a hair under 2 years, when I got in trouble I made up my mind to stop the nonsense, I got a job , stayed out of trouble and met my fiancé, I got my first car and first apartment and had a baby on the way and I fealt good about myself. I lost my trial and did 14 months, she left, when I came home I had to start from scratch. 2 years went by, I slept with probly 4-5 women and fealt nothing along the lines of relationship with any of them, jobs were scarce for me, couldn’t see my newborn, on probation, just seemed my life would never get better. Then is when I met the disordered one.

It wasn’t just the good sex, something else was there, ive only fealt it 3 times before her with a woman, its that feeling that you know you “want” to spend time with them and not just in the bedroom, I found myself after just a couple months like an exited kid on Christmas waiting on Friday night so I could go spend the weekend with her (was 100 mile drive) she was supportive and didn’t hold my past against me, told me to stick with school, was nice, fun to be around, seemed to have her head on straight, and no drama, and before long I realized just how happy I was and that I had my second shot at starting another family and getting back on track. That’s when she got arrested for being awol from the army. In a letter she sent me while in there she told me that she didn’t think I had deserved the punishment I got and continued to get for my crimes, that I was a good man, however she said something odd which was “all my life ive had to take care of myself, I just want somebody to help take care of me for once” in the next sentence said “but I don’t know how to handle someone else taking care of me cause ive done it myself for so long” Right there was like a warning that “nothing you do will work” at least that’s how I see it now.

When she got out a month later I picked her up and we got a hotel on the way home, we agreed to move in together, in 2 days I noticed she was getting a bit pushy and more demanding, I chalked it up to she just expects more cause we live together, then the arguing started, and got progressively worse, then the physical part happened, its like she was testing to see how much she could get away with. She said one night “you should feel obligated to help me pay off my school loans” yet I went and bought us a brand new family car and 3 years later when I couldn’t afford it she refused to help with it so I lost it. We used that car for all our long trips to our parents, she also would drive it too work sometimes. So she bought a 1200 dollar old car, and was still kicking me out and I had no car, so I had to buy this damn thing from her for 600 bucks even though she still got to use it, just so I could put it in my name and legally drive off when she kicked me out.

Since jail ive dreamed of running my own business to avoid background checks and because I admit I have some authority issues with people telling me what to do. I tried and she said no, while working for a rival company under a no compete clause she magically wanted to do my business idea and did, but it got put in her name as I couldn’t risk being sued, I couldn’t hand her money for it, cause she already got half my paycheck for bills and the rest was for my personal debts and to get through pay period, but I helped in all other ways boost that company off the ground, only for her to tell me she would never put my name on it unless I handed her thousands of dollars.

So here I find myself for a 2nd time, life in ruins, with nothing, and having to start from scratch again, im getting tired of starting over to this extreme, and it has caused me to have MASSIVE anger/resentment issues with this woman while she gets everything up there I helped her obtain, and I get stuck in my mothers basement with a broken down car and no job, and now have to defend myself in court from abuse allegations!! I go Thursday, I have two witnesses and a slew of questions for her (cause oh yes im putting her on stand) no money for a lawyer, but im not stupid, and I believe I have enough evidence for a judge to dismiss this CPO. Im a nervous wreck the closer this day gets, I hate all eyes on me, im the quiet guy at a bar or club that just sits back and watches others and enjoys my drinks, I never was very outgoing with just up and talking to women and dancing. I do not want to hear her voice let alone see her face in that courtroom, its already effecting my stomach, had some issues this morning when I woke up.

Do I feel betrayed, hell yes, am I madder than hell,,hell yes,,am I sad, hell yes, am I just as pissed at myself, big hell yes. I could have prevented this long ago after seeing one too many signs and just left, filed for support/visitation and been done with it. I cant hardly function right now, I cannot get my mind off this junk, and I have little to no motivation, and im still second guessing myself at times as I hear her voice telling me im pathetic, a loser, haven’t accomplished nothing, I almost feel brainwashed.

Ok, not an idiot

Dave, one thing that stuck out to me like a strobe light in you post, and I hope you don’t mind, because it’s so common was “I have problems with people telling me what to do”. I think we all go through that at some stage in our lives and I would like to say something that may put it in perspective. Something maybe to think about the next time you feel that way because it may be the one thing holding you back from discovering your real potential”your purpose. Most times people are not trying to boss you around. You just take it that way. People try and communicate to solve problems and many people suck at communication so it comes across as bossy. Or they are very insecure. Believe it or not, most people care more about how you see them then how they see you. Sound like someone you know? ☺ People don’t care that you were in jail. You care and they read that on you even if it’s just energy, they feel it. Maybe the next time you feel that way try to tell yourself (not them) they just are not a good communicators and show compassion. This compassion puts you in control of the situation and you will earn the respect of all who witness it but most importantly, your self-confidence will change over night. Took me a while to figure that out but when I did, I too started my own business and it changed my life. You have every opportunity, may be hard at times but only you can stand in your way. I have a poster on my wall, it says “the question isn’t who is going to let me, it’s who is going to stop me”. No one will stop you but you!

Dave

ok,

I developed this issue after I got out of prison (for obvious reasons lol)

It only got worse with her as she tried to control everything and I resented it, I wanted us to be equals. Im old fashioned however I don’t buy the shit of the man is head of household and he is the law, women resent that garbage and I didn’t want her resenting me. I will say this, I told her once that I believe men and women are equals and do you know this woman got mad, started yelling at me in the garage, broke down in tears and said “david if you hit me you would cave my face in and I would need surgery so don’t tell me we are equal”

WTF??? What woman gets mad at a man for stating he believes we are equals?? There are women on this planet that could stomp my ass im sure of it, yeah I could probly easily dismantle my ex if I wanted, but I meant we are equals in life, mentality, intelligence, decision making, as parents, homeowners, ect ect…I wasn’t trying to tell her I think she could beat me up and shes just as strong as me and I have no clue why she thought that or why it made her cry.

I know only myself is standing in the way, I have to get over this, get motivated and get back out there, otherwise ill be stuck in this basement feeling sorry for myself forever.

But you are most correct.

Stargazer

Dave, I believe that people who have committed crimes, assuming they are not sociopaths, and pay their dues to society, should have a clean slate, assuming they have changed. But you are right – it is difficult to get hired at many places with a felony record. The organization I work for does a background check. I don’t even think they hire with a misdemeanor. That’s whey I say there may be a support group – even and online support group – for ex-felons.

It is much more difficult for a man to feel good about himself when he doesn’t have gainful employment than a woman because being able to provide is essential to a man’s masculine pride. I would like you to know that I have great respect for any man who is out there working or trying to work, even if it is at McDonald’s. It doesn’t matter the income. I’ve dated men who were poorer than me (and that’s hard to be). One of my favorite lovers from the past drove a 20-year-old vehicle. He used to ask me if he could “turn on the air conditioner for the lady” and then manually roll down the windows for me. Even though he was poor, he was a perfect gentlemen. He always drove, saved up for two weeks to pay for dates, and opened doors for me. He was kind and generous with what little he had, and this made a huge impression on me. The only reason we broke up is that he didn’t seem to want to commit after 6 months and I did.

If you don’t have a job and a car at this point in your life, it doesn’t make you less of a man. It just means you can’t date until you get those things. That’s all. And you’re not ready to date anyway. And you don’t need another woman to rescue you.

Several years ago, I chit-chatted with the sales guy in the appliance section of Sears. He was trying to sell me a washer/dryer. He was a very interesting and educated person with a diverse background trying to make ends meet selling appliances. About 6 months later, I went to see a movie, and there was that same guy selling popcorn. He apparently got laid off from Sears. Here was this masters educated guy probably working for $8 an hour selling popcorn. The first thought that went through my mind was how much I respected him for going out there and getting a job, even if it wasn’t up to his caliber. I respect a man’s work ethic, not how much he makes. I’ve worked many $4.00/hour jobs. I’ve scrubbed toilets, swept floors, and done just about every kind of shit job known to humankind. We all do what we have to do. It doesn’t make us any less a man or woman.

You know, Dave, one thing you have going for you about being an ex-felon is that you probably understand the mindset of teenagers who commit crimes. You could maybe volunteer to talk to them and tell them about your experience in prison, and maybe you could help them turn their lives around. You could make your past experience work for you instead of against you. You could turn this disappointment into something positive again. You are fortunate to have a free basement to live in and the time to reflect. Why not use your free time to help others who are where you used to be?

You have no idea how many times I’ve been down and out. When I was in my early 30’s, I was so poor at one point that I was on food stamps and living in my car. I became dependent on one man after another, and drama ensued. I’m not ashamed to admit that I did something very unconventional to get out of poverty. I became an on-call exotic dancer for a period of a few years. This is how I got on my feet financially. Yes, I was a stripper for a few years in my 30’s. Within a short time, I gained my financial independence. My whole life, I’ve had to think outside the box to support myself. I’m very proud of who I am and what I have accomplished. You can figure out a way to use this situation to to your advantage. And you can do it without a woman. I am amazed at the ability of the human spirit to reinvent itself. You only get one life, Dave. Choose to do something great with it. You are still young. Choose that you will be happy. This is the only way to let go of the resentment and disappointment – to be determined to do whatever it takes to be happy. You cannot be happy and resentful at the same time. So be angry. Rage at the heavens. Get it out of your system. Then let it go because it will not serve your greater purpose. Learn from your mistakes.

I noticed the problems you had with her started when you moved in together and when you started taking care of her. So learn from this!!! Next time, don’t be a rescuer. If you rescue a woman who doesn’t yet know who she is, she will eventually resent you for doing it and may struggle against you while trying to gain her independence. When I was a stripper, I met many guys like this. They were kind, sweet and nice, and they wanted to “rescue” a stripper. They tried to rescue me! I told them in the most compassionate way I could that these women didn’t want to be rescued – that they would take advantage of the guy because they were in it for the money. They may lie and say all kinds of things, pretending they love the guy. But really they just were using him. Hell *I* was in it for the money. What kind of woman would choose a profession like this but for the money? Don’t be that nice-guy rescuer. And don’t be the one who needs to be rescued. This is the crux of your problem – that you believe you need someone to believe in you in order for you to feel happy, whole and complete. This is NOT TRUE. Believe in yourself, Dave!!!

You’ll see for yourself some day hopefully. You can have a great life in spite of your past or even because of it. It is part of who you are, and what you make of it will determine who you become in life.

Dave

star,

Not sure why she would think I rescued her, when I moved in and went to work she was still making more than me, we didn’t have many bills at the time, we both had paid off cars and she lived on some old womans rich property that had 2 houses for free for taking care of her sick husband that had polio. I don’t know maybe she does think I in some way settled her down cause her jobs and addresses before me were erratic, she never stayed anywhere longer than a year and didn’t have a job longer than 6 months. Its quite odd, I found on my email just now a long letter exchange between her and her mother in 2008, and if what she said is true, her mother really fouled her up, but I also noticed that many things she claimied her mother did, she was doing to me, remember I said I fealt like nothing I did was good enough for her? She said the same thing to her mother. She reminded her mother of all the pushing/shouting/hitting matches her and her current husband had while she was a child and how her mom would pack her in the car but never make it out the driveway.

I guess it doesn’t matter, cause nothing I do will change her, and she said she wont change, I really do feel sorry for her, and my kids, but nothing can be done if she does not want it.

Sounds like you have had it rougher than me id say,,ive never lived in my car , and im not beyond doing crap jobs “literally” I worked for 2 companies cleaning dog poop out of peoples yards while living with her, that is where I got the idea for our business, someone else suggested to her that we turn it “green” and recycle the waste. I literally star would go to this compost farm with large plastic binns full of shit , put on gloves and manually remove some of it with my hands to put in our in vessel composter until the bin was light enough for me to lift chest high to dump, it was gross as hell, but I never went home complaining like a little kid.

Hopefully I win this court hearing, I think that will boost my self confidence and help me to realize this is not my fault, and I think I may be able to start moving forward after this. I am going in there as prepared as possible, and I don’t think she is going to expect all the info I have, she will probly have a lawyer and that’s fine, I don’t need one just to question her and show a judge some emails. Wish me luck, say a prayer or whatever yall do, cause I really need to win this for myself as well so it doesn’t impede seeing/speaking to my kids.

BTW I don’t look down at strippers for doing it to make money to go through college or because they have no choice, I just hate going to those places and paying to get all worked up for nothing, hahaha 😛 Besides, I used to be a burglar, I don’t have much right to turn my nose up at you for legally making money.

I know I don’t “need” a woman to save me, but I want one in my life, I don’t want to be alone and miserable all my life with nobody to share it with, its human nature for us to want a mate/partner, but I also know now is not the time. And as much as I don’t want to admit it, I still love this woman, and I cant love another if I still feel that way about her its not fair to them.

Thanks for your replies they are very helpful.

Vision

Hi Truelove,

Reading your experience made me recall the same details I experienced in the hands of a sociopath. Mine was a male. Age doesn’t matter…A user is a user….We call them users….that is the slang for a sociopath in my opinion.

I had one user for 5 years. Took money, heart, soul, and hurt those around me as well. Selfish creatures…..

You will survive and one fine day, you will not love her anymore. You only love what you thought she was and what it could have been. All those “sweet” things she did was part of the act/or a sick flip flop for a very twisted person. and who wants to deal with that? You can’t help this person. I tried. I got that look of “glee” and the smirk…we all did.

Mine would trick me and was cheating the whole time. The more you do NO CONTACT the more you will wrap your brain and heart around the facade and the heartless motives that had you jumping.

After the NC, you will realize how as I like to put it :”She was never yours to love”…..she never gave you her heart….she never loved you as she doesn’t and will never know how to love in the truest sense of the word….and will always be looking for someone else to have sex with…in fact, the eye opener for me was that the whole time he was with me, he was constantly looking for women to have sex with as well as having that sex, sex sites, sex clubs, sex this and sex that was always on his mind. I realized that when he did certain strange things they were all about sex. Ex: when we were at the condo pool, he would go talk to the male lifeguard and later the lifeguard would tell me he talked about the sex clubs at the different vacation spots…many family oriented places where a guy can find some action….

One last kicker: When on a date for lunch, although I didn’t see any signs from him, as we left the restaurant he said as he looked into space, ” I could have had her” referring to our waitress…

You will have many flashbacks to such situations as you keep in NC. and when and if you flashback to the “good things” or to the sexual attraction, just realize it wasn’t special for you and her, it was what she did with everyone pal….

You will make it. I did…so many here at LF have made it…made it to where?…..To freedom from pain and regret….and to a new you….happy again….healed….ready to move on with your life…

I have a vision: A happy, centered, wise and loving man moving ahead in his life…a wonderful life….with healthy relationships…

truelove

Vision,

I have still not contacted the girl but I unblocked her # from my phone. I miss the idealization phase…wait a minute, what did i just say? My emotions lately have been getting to me lately. Just the comfort, intimacy etc. even though it was a facade, I miss it!! I am just sharing with you and perhaps others who remember what it was like with no contact the first three months. I am at NC of 2 months and not seeing face to face for 3 months. Man I miss this evil woman!! Why???? Its a rhetorical question but I could be with someone else if I really put my mind to it but I am not the relationship jumper like many are. I guess the ones who are afraid to be alone by themselves for fear of getting to know themselves. What do I know though, I am a person who is missing the very poison that brought me to this low point in my life emotionally etc. I am not even sure what else to say but I want to say, “I have unblocked you from my phone since I think it is safe now.” Wow as I write this out I see myself setting myself up! I have read that no matter what I do or try, I will lose with a sociopath because not having a conscience/empathy gives her the advantage of doing anything and not even question her motives etc. I on the other hand, would feel bad about lying to anyone except if it was the lesser of the two evils. Meaning I would lie to save a persons life etc. Please give me feedback from your own personal experience. I have read enough books and articles and really don’t need more information just your experience. Thank you all in advance and hope you are all doing well.
William

Ok, not an idiot

oh truelove: So you are lonely? That is the greatest gift you can give yourself because tonight you will go to sleep and when you awake you will be a better person. One day at a time.
The evenings are the worst by far but it’s a small window. Watch a funny TV show and go to sleep. Force yourself to be by yourself and be proud. I know you want her to contact you and since you have opened the door, In your mind, if she does not, you will contact her. Please don’t do that as it will take you back to SQ 1.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

Update. A mutual friend of ours died in the apartment below mine. This happened a day after I removed the block from my phone. I called her to let her know he died and then texted. She wouldn’t have found out except a day or two later. She knew him longer than I did so I thought I should contact her. She didn’t reply until the afternoon and asked what i wanted from her. I said to let you know James died. She told a mutual friend to tell me to call her. I called and went to vm. I called an hour later and wet to vm again. I left a message again both times. That was yesterday. She finally replied and said, so you apparently want something from me? I was initially shocked by the icy cold replies and the continued game playing even after I was just telling her about a friend dying. Also I needed to get a # from her so that I could get a hold of his family to find out about arrangements. She never replied…then I was reminded that not even in death, can a sociopath care about you or even another friend for that matter. Thank the heavens I didn’t call to say i wanted to see her. Anyway today I miss the physical part of it all and a small piece of her off the wall humor but I know better. I can say woulda, coulda shoulda but I look at it and realize I cannot allow myself to care AT ALL!! Even to just let her know someone she cares about just died! The entire time I dated her, I was punished every time I showed that I cared about her. I think thats where the difficulty lies in recovery. Usually when someone knows you care about them they either reciprocate or still show some sort of caring at some level depending upon how they like you. With this girl, WOW ICY COLD! I didn’t even have to hear her voice this time. The text that she relied was cold enough. She even told me to call her and then still played childish socio games with me. I feel ok just am blown away at how true it is that the NO CONTACT is the only way unless you have children. Yes I still feel lonely, yes I miss the intimacy. NO I do not miss the lies, manipulation, deception, endangering my health, etc. etc. all the things you have all dealt with. Tell me what you think?

Ok, not an idiot

Weakness has a cloak right? There was your excuse just to see if maybe you had been wrong about her all this time. Maybe it was you. Maybe she will say or do something to show just how wrong you were about her. Thank goodness she didn’t play that game with you. I think they sometimes take the path of least resistance. I understand lonely and feel it every day also but don’t be one of those people who needs someone just to fill the gap. Embrace the loneliness and your time will come. I often get asked if I have a a BF and hear comments like “what someone like u doing without a boyfriend”. It makes me sick. Our society has drilled into our heads that we are not worthy if we don’t have a partner. I say whats wrong with you who chooses someone just to have someone. No wonder the divorce rate is so high. Anyone can go find someone. It takes a special person to wait for the right one. I didn’t the first time and I will never make that mistake again no matter how long I have to wait.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

You are right on! You do understand me to an extent. I guess my weakness was cloaked since I knew who I was dealing with and I wanted to find a way to prove myself wrong or simply want to hook up! Wow playing with fire here since i will never win, I have a conscience and cannot hurt her emotionally and not feel bad. She can hurt me and actually feel good about it! Thanks for replying.:)
You are also right about me being comfortable alone before I will be ready to share time with another again.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

I also realized just now that i wanted her to say things to get me back while I know who she is. I think she realizes that she cannot dupe me now without my permission since my eyes have been opened. Before I was unaware of what kind of person i was dealing with and couldn’t image her wanting to purposely hurt me emotionally. I just called myself on my own sheet with your help. Thank you!

Ok, not an idiot

🙂 This doesn’t apply to only people who have loved a SPath. Breakups are hard mostly because our ego’s are fragile. Kind of makes us feel bad about ourselves no matter who made the break. I think most people want to know they are still desired even by a sane person. Please dont take this the wrong way but your actions were covered in a caring cloak and your weakness was obvious to her. I know it’s not easy but you have to stop. My guess is in a few days she may reach out to you. After all, you opened the door and she will make sure you know it. Block her again. At least for another week or two. Don’t let her take any more of your dignity or masculinity. I’m pretty sure you deserve better than that. Just ask your mother. 🙂

truelove

ok not an idiot

I don’t feel bad about myself. Actually I feel good that I cut the relationship before the discard stage. How can you be so sure that she saw my weakness? I think it was because she doesn’t feel comfortable because the gig is up and it will be too much trouble to continue duping me. Irregardless, I have no business contacting her for any reason whatsoever. I think when I contacted her, she expected me to want to see her etc. and I didn’t say that and actually didn’t really want to see her. Last time she wanted to see me, I blew her off for obvious reasons of course. I think she sees that I am a person who is capable of caring because a coupe months ago she expected me to forgive and start over on a clean slate. I ought to be focusing on myself right now instead of jiber jabbering about a dark soul and would make mine dark by association.
You ought to not state things as a definite as you are not completely sure. There is a possibility that you are right but just a possibility. Someone said about path of least resistance and that sociopaths are lazy people. She probably sees more potential and easier prey instead of one who sees behind her mask or sees the monster within. So why would I want to associate with a monster in the first place? I don’t feel bad about anything and my ego, well I guess I am still upset that I allowed it to continue when it should have ended months before it did. But again I took control of the situation, and discarded her in the long run. Thank you for your input though as it helped me possibly see a side of it that I didn’t see before. She only wants to win and have control. Likely you are right that she will contact me within a week; on her terms of course; and want to come over on her terms and time. Al about power, control and simply winning! Maybe I am bored and kind of miss the drama in an unhealthy way. It only gets worse as she would just blow me off once she sees that I want to see her for any reason. I am not contacting her and no need to block her as I see the monster inside clearer than the pretty face outside.

Ok, not an idiot

Im sorry, I don’t want to make things worse. You will get through this and you should talk about it like are. I would hate to think i have taken away your safe place. Please accept my apologies.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

No worries:) I wasn’t offended and I appreciate your input as you challenge me and help clarify things for me. No need to apologize. By talking about all this, it is helping me see that this dark soul is evil and to overcome it I need to forgive and move on. Thats my ego holding on to being upset about her cheating on me/duping me for several months and getting away with it. But do they actually get away with anything in the long run? Perhaps she doesn’t know how to respond as I have damaged her ego; not her emotionally as that is an impossibility. I don’t know maybe I just want to get laid by a dangerous sexually overcharged conscious less monster. What does that say about me? Well not anything good. perhaps there is a part of me that wants to hurt her ego further until she can barely begin to understand the emotional damage she has done to people in the past. I want to put her in her place and reduce her ego a couple notches so that she won’t think it so easy and fun to dupe her future targets. There ought to be a class to learn how to handle these monsters instead of just running to the hills.

Ok, not an idiot

When you talk about forgiving I should think you are talking about yourself. I don’t know that it will take that much to forgive her, it’s your judgement you will beat yourself up about. I know I did. Your wounded and that makes it even worse because “I should be strong enough to move on”. Again, these were the things I thought.
I think they know they are empty and I think life on this earth is very hard for them. Maybe later in life she will settle in when her hormones settle down, maybe around 50 or so. She will never be like us though, I assume.
Wanting to have good sex is normal I hope. The trouble is as we age there are less people of quality to choose from so we wait and settle for nothing less than great sex among other things, but never compermising on that. I think you should give youself a ton of credit as you figured it out after only 7 months. Most of us took years and many bore children. You are smart so don’t sell yourself short. From what I read, 1 in 25 people are SPath’s. How many people have you come across in your 40 years and to think you only subcumb to one. That’s not easy.

truelove

Ok, Not an Idiot wrote:

This doesn’t apply to only people who have loved a SPath. Breakups are hard mostly because our ego’s are fragile. Kind of makes us feel bad about ourselves no matter who made the break. I think most people want to know they are still desired even by a sane person. Please dont take this the wrong way but your actions were covered in a caring cloak and your weakness was obvious to her. I know it’s not easy but you have to stop. My guess is in a few days she may reach out to you. After all, you opened the door and she will make sure you know it. Block her again. At least for another week or two. Don’t let her take any more of your dignity or masculinity. I’m pretty sure you deserve better than that. Just ask your mother.

You were right! She called me 3 days later and left a message. She had no real reason to but like you siad to remind me that I opened the door to her and she was willing to play the game again. I didn’t answer the phone nor did I call back. This was a week and a half ago. Wow amazing, she even talked sweet and cute but no go. Actually hearing her voice was annoying and disgusted me. Voice of an angel as sweet as butter, yet all but a tool to a callous/dark soul, to cause one to let their guard down and “feel” all is well. No, all will never be well with a dark soul in tow. I recently had to end a friendship with a person we both know as I could see he was being manipulated by her to try to continue to upset me. All ties cut/severed, the cancer cut, removed and I don’t care if I lose a good part of me doing so. it was the good part of me that was likely capitalized and preyed upon by the monster who once was beside me.

Ok,
I wanted to thank you for challenging me and helping me see things I didn’t want to but needed to.

Ok, not an idiot

It’s nice to hear when I’m right. 🙂 Although it would be more helpful if I were right about picking my power ball numbers. lol I don’t think you will lose the best part of you by letting go of the friendship. If anything you will find the better part of you. I don’t think people take seriously how important it is to manage your relationships in line with a happy healthy life.
I consider myself to be a relatively intelligent person yet looking back it amazes me the people I have let into my life in the past. I just ended a friendship w someone who was so very good at hiding who they were. Looking back she spent most of her time trashing her crazy ex and now I think it was a distraction so no one saw who she really was. I always thought it was her ex who was the abuser but now that she is out of my life (because she assaulted me by throwing not one but 2 beer bottles at me for who knows what, Patriots lost, boy she was cheating on her BF with was talking to another girl, I’m prettier, she’s insecure, IDK? Any or all but I think her evil goes deeper than I care to look) Now I see things a little different. I thought I knew the signs of a SP and even if she isn’t, her personality is flawed and i should have listened to the signs off the bat because they were there looking….back. Rearview mirror is so much clearer isn’t it. This was just 2 months ago and there has not been one day that I miss her in my life. Reality is, I didn’t really like her anyway. She was always late even when I would say please dont tell me you are on your way until you are driving in your car. She one upped every single thing. I resigned myself to the idea that I would never meet a man if I was with her because she dominates every situation even while all around her are watching like “what’s wrong with her”. If someone started talking to me she would insist on leaving and turned mean. It was crazy really but I was OK with it because a bar isnt where I want to meet any love interest. She treats her kids like pawns since her divorce. I remember she would always say “I have them, he has them”, it was so cold like possession of an object.. At one point I said “you mean your kids are with you” Went right over her head. Anyway, I am talking way too much but my point again, I should have known right away but maybe i chalk it up to people coming into and go out of your life for a reason. Glad I cut it off swiftly so that’s growth and I am a better person.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

I am sick today fever, achy, sore throat, headache–and i miss being held and comforted while i am sick, so i miss him or at least being held by him. But its not so strong and not so bad. the price i had to pay was AWFUL. i left Nov 9th so its still soon enough to think of him holding me. but life goes on. i have spent most of my life uncomforted so this is nothing new to me, its just that in the last few yrs, he wud have held me. so i got used to it. i will get un-used to it again. Life goes on.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Thank you for replying:)
Life goes on yes. I had contacted her the other day for a good reason but that even turned out to be a mistake! A mutual friend died yesterday and I called to tell her. I got an icy cold response and realized I cannot even allow a single ounce of care for this person. She played mind games even when I was trying to just tell her a friend died! So much so that if she gets into a car crash and is dying in the hospital, I cannot afford to see her. She would see this as a sign of weakness rather than be happy to see that I care. Its the continual punishment for caring for her that i realize where the real betrayal lies. Its not the act of her cheating, lying etc. Its that I would not have been hurt unless I cared in the first place. How can someone be with another person; soaking in bath tub, sleeping and cuddling 5 nights a week, ec etc.?
There were special moments but she saw them as opportunities to ensure her hook was still deep inside me. WOW CRAZY!

aintgonnatakeitnomore

true love…u just want to get laid, period lol. its human nature. dont feel bad. once u get over the shock of the grief, u start to feel human again, and bam, there it is. just dont do something stupid because of a human need.
i have no answers as to WHAT to do about it however :0
even when i was missing idk what, a few days ago, i wasnt missing HIM…u know what? i was missing SOMEone. in my life, thinking about me, caring if i came home, smiling at me in the morning, or txtg first thing.
this is human nature too. we thot we’d found it BUT We Hadn’t.
i have talked to scores of men in the last month or so. met like 5 i think. still talking, still looking lol they want to jump in the sack or theyre disabled or mental or lazy. i walk away.
i am real real good at walking now 🙂 hell, after walking away from the NPD, i can lose any prospect fast and wake up happy!

Dave

truelove,

I seen mine yesterday in court, she looked very good, she made eye contact and it didn’t look like anger or revenge, it almost looked like she fealt confused and guilty but that’s probly just a ploy incase she ever wants to real me in again.

She did many things to me unbecoming of a relationship, however I feel your pain, I miss her and my kids terribly, I miss her smell, waking up next to her, cooking for her, watching our fav shows together and yes of course the sex too. I find myself at times almost wishing she would call and tell me sorry and beg me back, but im scared if she did that I may not be strong enough to say no just yet as I just hit month 3.

At night I miss her most while in bed staring at the walls, so I try to remember all the messed up shit she did and said instead of any happy moments, it seems to help a bit. Stay strong, don’t call, if she calls either don’t answer or make it quick and let her know you have moved on and hang up. I guess just focus on getting over this so your not carrying this baggage when you meet another woman, as it wouldn’t be fair to her, plus shes liable to leave you if she thinks your still a mess.

truelove

Dave

Thanks for your reply. Yea I found the final piece of hair from her last week. She had long blonde hair and it shed often or more than usual for people. I later researched it and found that high testosterone levels and certain drugs can cause that. Anyway yea focusing on the reality of what the “relationship” was based on; lies and deception; instead of the honeymoon part of it. The moments where it seemed like she truly cared. I have a memory that came back today of soaking in the tub with her and she told me all kinds of encouraging things that really seemed like she did truly love me. She was on a benzo drug at the time and this moment lasted only 5 minutes. Most of the time she didn’t say that she didn’t care but showed it ever so clearly. I read someone that said, “When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM!” How true this is because actions cannot lie while lips lie continuously.

The baggage I still have some I believe but slowly getting better. I think if I were to start dating, it would just turn into another meaningless sexual relationship. Actually I am vulnerable to be picked up by another sociopath. I know this for a fact because I am currently in the mindset that a social predator senses. Wow creepy world or creepy certain people in the world. I have heard that they can sense a potential target within 5 to 10 minutes of talking with someone. Is that true or only with certain ones?

Dave

Hmm truelove,

The testosterone thing and the hair, I find that disturbing as mine had higher levels of the hormone than she should for a woman and I noticed when she would shower and wash her hair there would be large clumps of hair she would leave on top of the rim of the bathtub, as well I would constantly pull out long strands of black hair from my clothes/coats from her.

truelove

Vision

Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom with me. You really can tell when another person relates to what you are going through. Yea it is tough. I woke up again this morning with obsessive thoughts about things she did and said. This has been happening the past couple months but not as intense as the day before so it is getting better. The way it made me feel when it happened and then me reliving it in greater detail as the NC effect has been kicking in is more traumatic than when it was happening! I guess because I was still in a fog not knowing sadistic emotional terrorists even existed in the first place. Also I was in shock and denial about what was happening!

I learned that the vampire character in Bram Stokers dracula was taken by a womanizing fiend whom the author knew. I haven’t verified that but I can see why people would call sps emotional vampires.

I still can’t believe I miss this person! But you said it so well that I miss the person that never existed except in my hopes and dreams that were created by this spath. Actually they came from me because I understand now that she mirrored me so that I would think she was the one I was looking for!! Wow every time I think about this it just blows me away. She was evil towards me no doubt about it. I believe true evil is the one that strikes under sheeps clothing. This girl Jess facilitated a support group where there were all men! Talk about getting the center of attention and picking grooming potential emotional pinatas!

You are right about her likely having sex with all her guy friends and me just another bloke in the mix! She has probably played them as she cycles through them. When I found out about her hooking up for sex on craiglist, her name on the email or contact was, “Burrito Girl.” When I found out about this I remember us eating burritos at el diablo. Things were going well and then she said something like, “You know I am a burrito girl, I got a burrito for every day of the week. I knew she was talking about sex but I just figured she was being a smart arse. Again I felt a pain in my chest and knew she was hurting me or flaunting it in an indirect way. Just the thought of her hooking up with 2 guys at the same time or 2 girls and a guy while she sleeps in my bed intimately at least 4 times a week!! I wanted to throw up in her face when I found out. Some other red flags early on. She had a friend who temporarily did escort service and Jess smiled about it like it was something taboo and sexy. Another time she said she is like a guy but with breasts. And again I joked with her and said she was a stud and she said, “Thank you with a big grin.” When I asked her who she would want to be and she told me Stevie Nicks. I asked her why and she said, “Because she is famous and slept with all the rock stars.” Again it was a red falg but I overlooked it. As NC continues these memories continue to pop in my head and I feel hurt. All I wanted was love, respect, loyalty, companionship, honesty. Guess thats why I am writing on Lovefraud:)

Thank you for the vision you have of me:)
I agree but I need some serious counseling and have been looking but nothing yet. I am 43 and have been getting negative thoughts like, “you are too old, times a wasting etc.” I know they are lies. In fact I felt that way when I was 30! I need to fill my mind with good things, positive things. I need to see myself the way God sees me.
Take care,
William

Ok, not an idiot

OK Truelove, im stuck on your last comment as it may be the one perspective that if changed will change everything for you. I am 44 years old and I wouldn’t go back for anything. Life gets better, I get better every single day. Wiser, smarter, and i think better looking. Being comfortable in your skin is not for the youth and is the greatest self-gift life has to offer. It’s a mind set. Find all the wonderful things about life. Identify all of the good things you do for yourself and others on a daily basis and accept all of the wonderful things that happen every single day, don’t focus on the negative. You are not getting older….you are getting better. Well that is if you open yourself up to learning and understanding. I was in therapy for 8 years mostly because I wanted to be. My therapist said I was fine and didn’t need to come but I had so much I wanted to learn about myself. I left my marriage of 18 years not because he was a bad man, he wasn’t the SP. He is a good man but come to find out he has been spending the last 18 years trying to change me and as he put is “I’ll never be able to fix you” meaning I will never be the person he wishes he was. Ya think? So after 8 years of learning how to cope and beating myself up trying to figure out how this is my fault, I left because I knew nothing would ever change and when I did, because of therapy, I was well prepared. My therapist told me so long as you stay out of debt and don’t get addicted you will have a wonderful life and that once I stepped off the cliff I will not fall, I will sore and she was very right. Point is, therapy works. If you can do, do it.

cannh

Hi TrueLove…From what I’m reading, you are getting good advice here. Forty-four is not old. I say this because I’m 58 and went through what you are experiencing about two years ago. It did take a long time to heal, but you can do this.

As OK said, being comfortable in your own skin is the greatest self-gift life has to offer. It’s now time to take care of yourself, to learn, to grow, to become a stronger, wiser version of you. As heart-wrenching as these situations are, there is something to be learned from this.

Allow yourself the time to feel the pain, but also know that it’s all part of the healing process.

I never thought I’d get over what happened to me, but I did. Don’t get me wrong, I still think at times about what he did to me and find it amazing I didn’t have the strength to walk out a long time ago. But I know now. If the same thing happened at this point in my life, never in a million years would I put up with it. So you see, you will get stronger!

I wish you well in your healing. Stay strong my friend…

carolann

Vision

Well, Truelove, you are very welcome.

After we hit 40, we seem to think we are much older. Its all relative. Trust me, you are very young…You are in your prime!…You are much wiser especially now…smile…

Now yes, you will as you said “wake up with obsessive thoughts” of her and her actions….yes you will start to see through the “fog” and as it lifts you will see exactly what was going on as ugly as it is….yes, the trauma of it all appears worse as we really see the real deal….and we freak…

Although you feel you miss her you will start to clearly see the selfish liar, the user, the calloused method of deceiving you, the evil and the heartless manner in which you were treated….

You will think of all the nice stuff you did and realize it meant nothing to her….she used it to further her shit….and its all shit…

You will see all the so called “nice things” like she held your arm…yeah, well, mine held my hand once in a theater…what did it mean? you might mistake that for the person showing real affection….as explained here at LF, it is a method of control, that’s right, control….they don’t see it as love…its control…power and control and sex….no love at all…

And your mind will go round and round with “I miss her” and you do…but wait, I miss what I thought she was….but she wasn’t that at all just a heartless user….and you have every right to feel sad, bad, depressed and going out of your gourd….she had you on her roller coaster and laughed at you the whole time. You loved an image of the wonderful girl you were looking for…its so hard to give that up or believe that…we as wonderful human beings believe everyone is trying to live to their highest potential but guess what?…in this case of ours, the answer is no they are not because these low lifes don’t care…no heart…

I was always amazed at how my sp laughed his freakin head off with his friends right after we had a fight…he had no feelings…he never felt hurt, pain, remorse, regret or anything from the heart and neither does she with you….

Once you get it, once you accept that she DID NOT and DOES NOT care about you or love you and it is all about control and her selfish agenda, you will find your enlightenment. and start to get better…

Burrito girl she told you? : Your story about that at the restaurant is so similar…mine did things like that to toy with me by taking words I used and putting in a dig…later I found out like you did he was relating these words to his dirty tricks and other women….same story with a different analogy…and with the same laugh and smirk on his face along with a gleeful intense look in his eyes….

You will be just fine, William….Your name means Strong Willed Warrior…the word “will” meaning just that and “helm” meaning helmet as a protection….go conquer off this facade of a relationship and realize that in the end you are left with just you….and that, pal, is the hardest to accept…being alone now…and yes, counseling is very helpful in dealing with our feelings…It helped me as did lots of reading here and allowing myself time to understand what happened to me….and how to get back up….and I did and so are you….

Biggg Huggs! Keep reporting!!

truelove

Vision

You know me so well. What you said is exactly what I needed to hear! Thank yo so much! Its the way you told me like it is irregardless of what I think, and you shared it with love and empathy I can see. She got off on upsetting me I know this now. It was about controlling my emotions. As I look back and the only time she wanted to see me was on her schedule. Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. On a positive note, all my tests came back normal. I was scared she gave me some STDs with her dirty random pig sex she did behind my back. When I asked her if she ever got tested she told me she was afraid to get tested for aids etc for fear of a lifestyle change!! Can you believe that! Then when I told her the last girl I was with before her, she tells me how I endangered her physical health. Oh yea, she compared it to the emotional pain she caused me but it was nothing compared to what I did. These people ought to be sent to their own town and play games with each other and spread their own diseases amongst themselves. Another red flag…whenever a girl talks about Jessie hookup sex in the third person, LOOK OUT!! I knew I was dealing with a dirty pig but didn’t care. She mirrored me so well I thought she was a long lost friend or someone I was looking for. Self love, self acceptance…these are gifts to myself you are right. I know I will soon be grateful for this whole experience as you are right, I will be wiser. Also plan to find a woman high on the tree like myself. Tired of picking up rotten ones on the ground and ignoring the worms inside. Amazing, I could have met a nicer woman in prison or some dive bar. Better yet, random girls at all the bad places and I would find a better one than this! Still can’t believe how horrible this girl was!! I wish people looked on the outside the way they really are on the inside. This girl would have looked like demon pig! I am kidding here but again I cant express the horror of it all. Actually the movie, Apocalypse Now when the colonel says, “The horror.” That makes sense to me now. Again thank you for understanding me and empathizing, it made me feel good; warm and fuzzy inside if but for a moment:)
William

Dave

truelove,

you said, “She got off on upsetting me”

My friend I know how that feels all too much!!

Mine got off on controlling my emotions by pushing the right buttons and I stupidly fell for 80% of the time. The other reason was she knew if she pushed enough and hard enough sooner or later I would snap and break something, then she could run around and tell everyone how violent I am. And to make matters worse she would at times get me to believe I did something wrong (second guess myself) even though I would be irate at whatever she said or did, later I would be doubting myself and making excuses for her behavior because she had convinced me that it was my fault.

Its a dirty game, and only pigs play it!

aintgonnatakeitnomore

<>
I wrote out I will not wallow with pigs, I will not wallow with pigs 10 times last week. (dont know who to attribute it to, sorry)
Now I’ve written out the above quote 10 times.
maybe i’ll write both out 200 times HAHA
good stuff!

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

You wrote that to me. I agree. She was having random pig sex behind my back. I didn’t realize I was wallowing in the mud until the pig started to show its true colors. A pig can’t help but to eventually wallow in the mud. I believe I am giving a compliment to spaths out there. The reality is far more disgusting. At least a pig can’t lie and deceive and give dupers delight smirks…Thats all it was, dirty pig sex behind my back. I don’t think it was a waste of time though. I had a friend of three years; the guy was like a brother to me. He was deceptive to me and blatantly lied to me several times and tried to gaslight me. I told him don’t even try that with me. he still lied to me like the spath did. I don’t know what my ex friend was up to. he used to use drugs so perhaps he relapsed. The point is I have learned boundaries and started to act on them. 3 strike rule. Lie once…misunderstanding. Lie twice…you made a mistake. Lie a third time….you are not worthy of my friendship and may even be sociopathic as lying and deceiving is the main tool of sleeze bags.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

well arent u generous? lie once, i am gone now. i havent the strength to think otherwise. lie once — ur bad, lie twice — my bad for giving u another chance.
i have always maintained my hit once — im gone. i always always said that (probably like the only boundary i ever kept).
the spath i was with had a violent past. once he pounded the floor next to me, once he grabbed my hand (i shot daggers out of my eyes and he dropped my hand w/o me even talking), several times he threw things and left marks in the walls. i was never scared tho. he used intimidation b4 in his life as manipulation and i was having none of it. he manipulated in tons of other ways tho, yes. but i still say he wud have hit, i wud have walked. he must have sensed this. spaths are smart, maybe the energy guides them in which ways to abuse??
its sad i cant give ppl chances now. but i cant. just like friends i am irritated with and reflecting on the past with them if they keep it up. and cutting it off. i need no more needy, sucking me dry ppl.
so if u can be generous, thats a better outlook than i have. all is not lost, william!

Vision

Truelove:

Thank you as well since I feel warm and fuzzy inside too when I can help out by my experience with these selfish people. and helping you helps me!! We give to the wrong people at times and so I have been helping out others more so now I have time (without the sp in my life stealing my values) and I go out of way sometimes with the good people around me now.

We help each other here at LF. Never been let down here!! I am so glad your test results are clean…you are lucky….

And look at all the support you have! Hi Dave, and Aintgonnatakeitanymore!

Besides pigs, Aintgonnatakeitanymore sounds like you were involved with a gorilla throwing tantrums and beating his chest….or the Hulk…but not incredible….phewwwww.

Truelove:

Funny how you brought up The Apocalypse movie scene when he says “the horror”…I actually used the scene of the battle in the helicopters while the colonel plays “The Valkyrie” by Richard Wagner as my motivation for battling my sp’s power over me. Yup, played that theme song every morning while getting ready and trust me, I felt like one of the Valkyries on my flying horse ready to take down all evil!! LOL

But it worked. Later a lot of anger left me as I went further into healing…..into more acceptance of it all….how I let it go…why I let it go to the point I did….etc….

By the way, although we feel we want “revenge” upon their souls it wouldn’t do any good….because whatever you did or could do lets say, wouldn’t mean anything to them in the way you would want it to. So if you wanted them to feel the pain…ain’t gonna happen….no heart….they would feel anger maybe or glee that you took the time to give them some more power over you….

They don’t get it….So by ignoring them (and not jumping on your horse along with your entourage and burning their fields)so ignoring them is the best revenge….simple….no contact…nothing. and they go nutty….they can’t believe they lost all their power over you!!!

She was never into you. Mine was never into me….So the whole time as I look back, I see how alone I was for five years….so sad…I cried when I saw how I sat around waiting for his time frame (as you said “her schedule” yes indeed.

How I put up with lies I couldn’t prove, how I put up with promises that never happened…how I gave money and was never paid back nor treated with love and respect…never….how ignored I was and how he could spend his money on other women but not even take me to dinner in the last two years…(hello? you see how screwed up we get and allow this dirty treatment because we believe their shit and think “awww. he is working night and day)

I felt so great when I finally didn’t care anymore….takes time….but I got a satisfaction knowing that he knows he can’t control me anymore….but he had already forgotten me so to speak because I meant only a plaything to him…he forgot about it within moments as he more then likely was calling one of his victims…..so I didn’t dwell on my victory….

Separating yourself from them…do a total cleanse of your home, car, rooms, computer of anything about them…I didn’t like opening a drawer and finding some of his clothes….or his one and only card from five years….or his pay check stubs….or his sex card to clubs….or his email copy of his sex site profile..
I didn’t like seeing his photo suddenly in my photo album on my pc….so take them out….take out her name from you vocabulary….

Last thing here as I am on another tangent:
I stopped talking about him finally….decided to be strong and not even mention his name….months later when I had to say his name to someone (person didn’t know what happened)…when I actually said his name, it felt so odd, so foreign, so weird, and the sound of it came thickly as my tongue could hardly speak that name….meaning he had been so out of my mind, my heart, that saying his name had become foreign to me…..

By the way, The Valkyrie is about women warriors on flying horses taking the souls of wounded warriors back to Valhalla…..you can look up the story…but my imagery had me flying around when I listened to the theme…felt very powerful and I needed that then…..

Take heart,as it takes a while to put this behind you. but heal the right way as you sound very wise….give yourself time before dating again….I did and it was wonderful to be free….

More Big HUgs!!

aintgonnatakeitnomore

ah, Vision–gorilla?? hulk??
no no no
rofl
it was a 2yo having a fit, not a man, let alone a strong anything.
wen he called me names i felt like i was babysitting a 5th grader. i kid u not.

Vision

Aintgoonnatakeitnomore:

ha ha I guess gorilla would then be a complement to him.,.I take it back!!

A 2 year old then…I know of a woman whose ex husband was what we called a “knuckle dragger” referring to his mentality of being in the earliest stages of human evolution. He grunted and ugged and shouted and threw fits and was just plain old stupid….he wasn’t a sociopath probably because he was too slow mentally to be one….

He liked being dumb because he didn’t have to take any responsibility. He didn’t try to be a better person or to learn much…..not making fun of those mentally slow…he was just ignorant and mean too….acted like in 5 grade as you mentioned…

So glad we are out of this mess.!!

Stargazer

Being rejected or discarded by ANYONE really hurts. Truelove, you reached out to your ex – you called her twice and left her 2 voice mails and texted her. It would have been obvious to her that you were reaching out. If she had feelings for you and she was a caring person, she would not have responded the way she did. It sucks and it’s humiliating when you reach out and the other person rejects you – for whatever reason. I see you still second guessing her feelings…. I have done this so many times to justify bad uncaring behaviors by men I wanted. But real love should not be this hard and you should not have to play games. A true partner is a friend you can really be yourself around, and they will not run away or play games. And vice versa. This requires a certain amount of maturity and yes, a conscience (which she doesn’t have). She is not the right person for you even though the addictive part of your brain tells you she is. You will get past her and move on. I would not have believed I could move on as many times as I have, but love always finds its way back to me somehow.

I had a guy discard me last year after a miscommunication, and it hurt like hell. This is after two years of longing and pining for two guys who were emotionally unavailable. This guy was actually rude. Thinking that I’d hurt his feelings, I continued to reach out to him until he finally told me he had found someone else. It was incredibly painful and humiliating. I had just spent 4 days with him on a trip to Florida and (in my mind) we had really bonded (although I still hadn’t had sex with him). Apparently, this was not true for him. We were not in the same place wanting the same things. I think he just wanted a friends with benefits and playmate for sex and travel. God how I really liked him and thought he was perfect for me in so many ways. I longed and pined for a few months, but went back out there and started dating again. No one interesting took my mind off him……..until a man came back into my life that I knew briefly 3 years ago. This time we really connected, and it’s been actually pretty effortless and nice (barring his few pre-planned trips OOT that leave me feeling a little abandoned.). The thing that stands out about my budding relationship with this guy is that I can be completely honest with him and it doesn’t scare him away. I think he’s actually ready and available for a relationship and really likes me. He’s out of town right now, so I will start spending more time with him when he comes back and check it out – slowly! We have had a total of about 5 dates, and I have not slept with him. And I will not sleep with him until I have seen his character. This will take a little time and a little testing.

The point of all this is that sometimes you just have to kiss a LOT of frogs to find your prince – or princess. And like another blogger just said, if you are out there dating long enough, by sheer probability, you will run across a sociopath or two. I am 53!! I’ve never married. I met the spath in 2008 and thought he was the love of my life. I have gone through many more painful experiences with men in the last 6 years – giving my heart away to the wrong person more than once and even having a passionate love relationship with someone in another country that was destined to fail due to geography. I don’t know why I keep putting myself out there sometimes, but I do. I think the current guy may have the emotional maturity to really relate to my depth, and even my pain. He is 55, and he’s been around the block a few times, too. But if it doesn’t work out with him, I will keep opening myself up. I have been alone and on my own for many years. I have become accustomed to it. I am just now starting to imagine my life with another person in it. It would certainly be life-changing. I think human beings do much better when pair bonded. But it needs to be in a healthy way to an appropriate person. In the meantime, as a single woman, I have filled my life up with friends and activities, so I am actually happy much of the time and not feeling so alone. I have become pretty happy in the past few years. I was getting to where I was okay on my own. I actually started feeling a lot of gratitude and thinking that if I died tomorrow, I will have died fulfilled because I have many good friends and fulfilled many of my dreams. Just as I was in the middle of this love fest with life, the new guy showed up. It’s very scary to me to take another risk with love, but I’m doing it – in a very guarded way.

Any man who lies to me or deceives me again will find himself discarded so fast and so coldly that he will wonder what happened. Sadly, I’ve learned in the aftermath of all these dating catastrophes to behave like a sociopath and cut someone off when I need to.

You will get over her, truelove. You will one day see that she is not nor was ever the right person for you. You cannot know this until you begin to experience your own beautiful life without someone. Then someone who really is right will enter and bask in your happiness with your own life. The right person will appreciate you and add value to your life, not tear you down. It’s hard to imagine, but maybe imagining what a a healthy relationship can be like can help you break the ties with the unhealthy one.

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Confidence and a carefree air WILL attract ppl but its got to come from being happy, not becuz ur an ass. Just remember there’s a difference as you head out into the world.

Ok, not an idiot

I remember the comment about what some may call “being an ass”. I think its a reaction that should be expected. We all lash out or want to pay back differently. I get it!

Stargazer

Truelove, you have given two motives for calling her: to just pass along some information, and to use her for revenge sex. In reading between the lines of all of this, what it looks like to me is that you were just reaching out maybe with some malignant hope that through hearing of the friend’s death she may open up a little or show some warmth. This is what it felt like to me and probably what it felt like to her. I’m sorry she hurt you yet again. For what it’s worth, I admire you for reaching out, even though you got burned. Sometimes that’s what it takes to move on. I know so many people who are caught in wanting to reach out but fear of doing it. They stay trapped in that fear, and it keeps them from moving on. I’ve been that person many times. With the last guy, I was very brave and took a big risk in reaching out to him several times even though I felt like I was making a fool out of myself (and he probably thought I was, too). Really what I was doing was taking my power back. I was going after what I wanted and willing to face the fear of rejection, which has been so hard for me. Normally I would just run away but secretly pine for a long time. When he finally hurt me the last time, I was ready to move on. I finally became angry. Now if he contacted me, I would not want to see him again. For a month it was not like this. Sometimes the ends of relationships are a little messy but best to make sure it is complete.

truelove

Stargazer
You didn’t hear a word I said; you are so off its not funny. I found out even just now from a mutual friend that she has a new boyfriend. Why was I informed, because she wanted me to know. I was ecstatic! I feel sorry for the dude. he has no iea whats in store. Anyway no it wasn’t going to be revenge sex or any revenge at all. Just horny and wanting a girl who is good in bed =, period. I am thinking that maybe I used her for sex or that she had such a good sex drive etc.
please don’t reply with non sense:)
I don’t think you really heard what I was saying in the first place. I needed to get a girls # who possibly knew his parents and sp was the only one who likely had it. The way he dies was suspicious and his housemate said some disturbing things to him etc. I wanted to contact his family to make sure they allow an autopsy. The police officer asked me several times if he did drugs and I said NO WAY. But thank you once again for your input but you are way off.

Ok, not an idiot

Im not looking so bad, am I? 🙂

Stargazer

Okay well this is not what you said, so I drew conclusions based on what you actually said. Sorry I have misread. I wish you the very best. It’s really hard to know how to support someone in these situations. You come onto a site for people who were used by sociopaths and tell us you were going to use a girl for sex. I just put my rose-colored glasses on and assumed your motives were a little more human than that. That’s what usually gets me in trouble. So thanks for clarifying.

truelove

Stargazer

I am writing on this forum to get constructive advice and encouragement. Not to be analyzed and picked apart and then judged. I don’t think thats the purpose of this site. Thank you for wishing me all the best, you too. If I wanted to be analyzed and then judged, I would talk to a sociopath. Maybe I have worn out my welcome as my sharing may upset others and cause them to think of their own trauma. I apologize to anyone if that has happened.

Ok, not an idiot

It’s Friday night, everyone is alone and drunk. 🙂 You are good. I love how you reach out when you feel bad about what you have done and you need a place to vent so don’t stop.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

Please refrain from name calling and negative feedback. If you aren’t going to say anything constructive and helpful then please do not reply to my comments. Thank you for understanding.

Ok, not an idiot

Are you talking to me? I thought i was supportive??

truelove

Sorry wrong person

Ok, not an idiot

whew

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

I was thinking the same thing:)
Question. At the funeral should I even acknowledge her and simply say hi to her new bf? I don’t think I should. I have read on numerus blogs that cutting all contact meaning this person is dead to you. Empty space if I were to ever encounter this monster again. What do you think? And thank you for reaching out to me with email address.

Ok, not an idiot

Offering my e mail was careless looking back. I mean look at the topic of the blog. Anyway, funerals are for the living. If she is going to be there…why would you be there? You can reach out to the family in ways that are much more meaningful and you should. You cant teach her or her new BF anything. They have to figure it out themselves.

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

I understand. But I don’t think it was bad to reach out and offer to help. Anyway I will respect your wishes and not contact you by email. Either way I appreciate you wanting to help outside of the forum. Thats what support groups in general do anyway. Also I apologize for being a bit curt with you and others here. I know you are just trying to pay it forward so to speak and I really do appreciate it. I talked with a friend today about everything and I am wondering when will I stop talking about it in general. It seems to keep the bad memories alive. I guess I have to make a conscience decision to do so. Just so you don’t feel left out here’s mine:)
[email protected]
How do you like them apples?:)

Stargazer

Truelove, it’s hard to understand what kind of support and encouragement you need. I am one who sees a bigger picture and looks for deeper understanding of a situation. It is who I am. I am not intending to judge or analyze you. I’m sorry if you took it that way. When you share your story here, you are going to get all kinds of responses. Some may not be what you want to hear, but at least speaking for myself, I speak from my heart and just respond to what I read. However, I will just stop responding to your posts, and maybe that will be better for you.

truelove

Stargazer

I am going through all kinds of emotions right now. I had bad intentions for contacting her I do admit now that I think about it. I think being around a sp for several months and getting lied to, cheated on etc. really makes a person MAD as HELL and I have been thinking like a sociopath with the anger inside but I am not hiding it ike spaths do I think! I am embracing this anger as I know it is part of the process of healing. After contacting her yesterday, it was a big mistake!! Today after commenting on this yesterday and running into an old friend, I vented and shared the whole dam story with him. I felt even more angry, hurt and generally upset! I seriously cannot believe still that there are people like thins out there! But they exist for some strange reason. I personally would want these monsters to go straight to hell; that seems to be where they came from anyway! I am sensitive right now too so thats why I have been kind of touchy. Well I also realized tody that our mutual friend told me she has a bf who is controlling but not to tell anyone. Who am I going to tell? The sp has maipulated this person before so its likely she wanted me to know she has a new bf to hurt me. Well didn’t hurt me because I no longer care for someone who had punished me for caring in the past. I am still pissed off about the whole enchalada. The lies manipulation, deceptions, smirks, hypocricy( I can do it to you but damn if you are going to treat me that way attitude). Anyway I have to cut ties with this so called Mutual friend because he is a tool to her. I just want to throw up in this disgusting person’s face! So folks bear with me all the anger, sensitivity, etc. I wish I wasn’t such as emotionally charged person, passionate to a fault at times. Anyway i do appreciate all your comments. Just geting a response relating to it helps.

Ok, not an idiot

This is a forum for people who have been exposed to Spath’s. There is no way anyone can or should expect that we are all perfect. Like I said before, it’s Friday night and I’m pretty sure we have all learned enough about ourselves to handle being alone but that doesn’t always make it easy. So if we happen to drink too much that we say too much or drink nothing and receive information incorrectly, we need to respect and accept one another. It’s just life.

truelove

aintgonnatakeitnomore

“I am the one giving negative feedback, not Ok not an idiot.
You are giving everyone grief and you need to stop. These ppl on here are trying to help. ”

Why would you give negative feedback/comments/name calling?
Well one of my best friends died yesterday. I couldn’t get a # from sp to get a hold of his family. No one else I knew to get it from the other friend. I have not been drinking, and a 2 year old? I think children are more prone to name calling.
As I had no idea you spoke for everyone on this forum. Sounds a bit narcisistic. Anyway your comments aren’t welcome by me. Please stop. Also it is likely you are drunk since many times we project our own problems onto others. I believe sociopaths have this down to an art form.

Ok, not an idiot

OK can we please stop judging each other? I thought we had a good dialogue going these last few weeks. I have been drinking yet can see the irrational here. Can we start again?

truelove

Ok, not an idiot

Jeeze I probably needed a drink last night. This forum/dialogue has been helpful to me. I am a newbie when it comes to realizing you fell for a monster when you thought the fantasy world she created was real. Wow it was so hard letting that fantasy go. Also I have been looking for counseling as I know I certainly qualify for needing it like many of us I imagine. After this experience it is going to be hard as hell trusting people again and actually liking people in general. So I contacted her by txt thursday so last contact was 2 days ago. Crap I am geting sick of talking about this, she is still wasting my time just as much as when I was with her. This really sucks! I guess overcome evil with good I read somewhere. I think I had dated one before. Are they souless? Possessed? Just downright simply evil? Its a personality disorder and not a mental disorder so they know what they are dong and can control or change but they choose not to.

Stargazer

Truelove, I’m sorry if I didn’t listen and was insensitive. Glad you came back. I don’t really know the right thing to say except that it’s good that you are getting angry, and you will get through it. It takes a while to trust after a betrayal like that. Regarding the funeral, I personally would not even make eye contact with her. Eye contact with an evil person can be harmful. So much is transmitted through the eyes.

Also, I’m very sorry for the loss of your friend.

I hope I stuck to the topic and didn’t go too far off track tonight. 🙂

truelove

stargazer

No need to be sorry. I was the one acting touchy and just upset in general about the passing of a good friend the day before. You were just trying to help and give another perspective. I am having a difficult time with being challenged in regards to my actions concerning said sociopath. I want to apologize to you. Please continue to share your experience; it has helped me.

You are right about the eye contact. I got that the other day from someone and it was really intense. He was a police officer and it just felt weird; his eyes looked too intense.
Anyway have a good day tomorrow:)

Stargazer

Thanks, truelove, but no apologies needed from you either. I understand. And again, sorry about the loss of your friend. You especially do not want any eye contact with the evil person when you are so vulnerable. Please take good care and protect yourself from her in every way you can, even if it means not going to the funeral or just staying briefly, wearing dark glasses, or whatever you have to do.

It’s so sad to see so many people devastated in this way by sociopaths. Not the way human relationships are meant to be. I am like Pollyanna. I believe you will find love again and that next time it will be the real thing. It just takes some time to work through the betrayal.

truelove

Ok, Not an Idiot

Interesting story. Yea why is it sometimes hard to let go of friendships when many times they really aren’t that meaningful o begin with? Also it was good that you ended it based on her character and not some random shallow reason. Plus not even needing confirnmation that this person was a full blown sp but had enough lack of character qualities that helped you make a wise decision.

What happened with me recently was I called the mutual friend, he tells that her boyfriend is controlling her but not to tell anyone. Now why would he tell me this unless it was to upset me. I responded by being happy and being relieved that she found someone else so fast. Then this guy tells me that its kind of hard to communicate when you aren’t talking to them. He said some other things that he got from talking to sp and brought them up to me. Then when I addressed them by telling him he had no clue what I what kind of a person i was dealing with. Then he tells me to stop because he won’t bad mouth his friend. Basically the sp was able to let me know she had a new bf without her having to tell me. Then i told the mutual friend that I cannot continue a friendship with you because you are too close to the sociopath and i refuse to allow anything to move me from the good place I am at at this time. Then I said to him, this has nothing to do with you. Haven’t heard back and he really wasn’t a good friend by sharing things that would be hurtful. I didn’t show that i was hurt by finding out about the new bf but I was kind of as I looked on their facebook page and basically saw it all. I felt all the bad emotions again and couldnt believe what I was seeing. It was like all these pictures with him and his kid at parks, shes posing, ooking sweet and pretty and innocent. His friends comment that he has never looked so happy before. I got upset but then felt bad for the guy. He looked like the perfect victim now that I think about it. She never let anyone know who she was dating stc and then to see her meet someone and have their own relationship page. But then i come to my senses and realize that its the same person only pretending to be someone else in order to get something from him. Just weird, their relationship obviously went fast. I did think about why did she treat me so horribly and now she seems to be nice and sweet with this guy and his young daughter. He also has a dog that looked exactly like mine. Well they started seeing each other when I would not allow her back into my life the start of this year. Why am I still missing this horrible retched monster?? A part of me wants to believe that she was that way with me because she wasn’t a sp but just needed to grow to meet or experience real love. But spaths never change, they just get better at what they do. I read a definition of sociopath on urban dictionary the other day that really set me straight. Her it goes:

The worst, most disgusting, biggest garbage individual you will ever meet in your whole entire life and absolutley deserves NOT a single ounce of compassion, respect or love because they themselves are incapable of it and will deceitfully seek to use it against you any chance they get to take as much as they can then skipping away laughing all the way home.

Another thing I thought about when I called her about a mutual friend dying. She turned it into a game and about her when I was simply telling her and trying to get info to help him. Instead of her calling back 3 days later to talk about the loss, she asks me to let her know of any arrangements etc. Totally trying to play games with me even when it is about a dead friend.
So its good for me to end a relationship with a guy who sees her as his best friend since he is an extension of her, even if he doesn’t realize it. Master manipulators. She will probably tell him how bad I am for ending a relationship with him over her…who cares…Cut all contact and people who can be manipulated by this toxic person.

It still hurts though. While thinking about how much I miss her this morning, I was also flooded with all the memories of her lies, deception, maliciousness, sadistic ways that she treated me. I am not going to look back again, move forward, I made the right decision by dumping this sp while in the middle of the devaluing stage. Thats what really kills her ego, strange as it sounds, she became obsessed with me because she wasn’t done with me yet and had other plans of destroying me emotionally and mentally. Please give me advice or anything. I am just feeling sad and still getting over the pain of being involved with a sp…
Again thank you OK, I personally think you are definitely OK:)

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