Editor’s Note: This letter was sent in by Lovefraud reader “truelove.”
Wow where to start. I am in my 40s and started dating a girl in her late 20s back in April 2013. I had met her a couple years ago and thought she was a nice, caring person. We started dating and things got hot and heavy really fast. It was like a fun roller coaster ride, but little did I realize she had plans to purposely make it jump the tracks once I was most vulnerable and hooked.
Taking control
She played the hot and cold game with me from the beginning. I was hurt by it but always went back to her when she wanted to see me. She was taking control of the relationship at this point through manipulating my emotions. She asked me all kinds of personal questions and complimented me a lot. I never felt so appreciated in my entire life, and it felt so good having a woman tell me so many nice things. Then she said things that made me think this is my soul mate whom I have been waiting for because she felt the same about a lot of the things we talked about.
Texts and sex
The sex was unbelievable and often experienced. We spent so much time together and texted constantly. I thought this was kind of odd at first, but this was my soul mate so it seemed all right. Later I realized it was to keep control of me and not because she cared, because she did horrible things behind by back while having this intense communication with me.
Then I noticed that she would get offended really easily over silly things. For example, she got mad at me for replying to her text messages with K instead of saying OK. Then I noticed that she would say things to hurt me. She mentioned that I had a bald spot on my head when I didn’t. It was like she was testing me to see how to upset me. I just thought she was joking. Then she would ask me strange personal questions that made me feel uncomfortable, but I figured she cared about me and simply wanted to get to know me more.
Many personal questions
She asked what caused previous relationships to end and I said it was due to cheating, wow, go figure. She asked me what my greatest sexual fantasies were. Everything with her was sexual. She even said that my filtered fresh water was sexual!
As I look back, she would often stare at me in a really intense way. We even had staring contests and she won every time. It was like she could see right through me and her eyes were like two lifeless blue doll eyes in her head that wouldn’t flinch.
Lies and manipulation
Then the lies and manipulation really kicked into overdrive. We were upstairs watching a movie one night and she took a call that she said was her cousin. She ran out of my house like it was a fire drill to take the call. When she came back up, I had this pain deep in my gut that it was another guy she was talking to. She lied and I dropped it since I started to ignore my gut instinct a couple weeks before and how could such a sweet, nice loving girl do such a thing as lie? The brainwashing had already kicked into high gear.
Oops, the wrong name
My friends couldn’t understand why I didn’t just ditch the bad nasty apple for good and stop going back and move on. They obviously didn’t understand how addictive it becomes to want to work things out and still believe all the lies, since I thought we had a deep spiritual, mental and emotional connection and I didn’t want to be wrong?!
Then when we went to bed and she called me by her ex-boyfriend’s name by accident so she said! I was so naive and “in love,” that I kicked her out of bed and later overlooked it and figured she was with him before for a year and a half so people make mistakes, right? This was in late June 2013.
Truth is like pulling teeth
A week later I caught her texting someone late at night right next to me in bed after saying she didn’t want to have sex earlier that evening. It was like she got a thrill out of getting caught possibly. Then I badgered her into the late hours to tell the OBVIOUS truth and she finally said it was her OTHER EX, yes another ex boyfriend! Just to get a shred of honesty was like pulling teeth from a tiger. I see now that she was messing with my emotions and hurting me on purpose.
I thought she was a victim and being used by these other guys when it was likely the opposite. Really sickening now that I think about it. I was in complete denial at this point and in fantasy land since I was so into her and she was into me, right?! I later found out that she was sleeping with her ex and they had a fight and that’s why she took the phone call in a fire drill rush in my apartment.
Sleeping with the ex
She told me in late August 2013 about sleeping with her ex and about almost having a threesome with him and her best friend! She told me she loved me in the same sentence and how she prayed for me! I was devastated and felt so betrayed; I cried a lot.
When she “came clean,” by telling me that she slept with her ex, I later found out she was hooking up with another guy she met through the sex pages/personal ads of craigslist! This was when she was, “coming clean?!” She is almost thirty and the guy was 19 years old!
I found out she likely had a threesome with this kid as I saw her text messages one night. I know that was wrong, but I guess I needed a bigger dose of reality and humiliation.
Three days before she had sex with the kid, she had asked me to be her boyfriend and I said yes! It was like the more screwed up stuff she did to me, the more it made her feel good. This whole experience has been so humiliating as a man to have a woman do this to me and to leave and come back to it several times thinking it would stop. I think the word I am looking for is I felt emasculated?
The sex weapon
So she told me about cheating on me not because she felt bad, but it was intended to hurt me emotionally, which it did. I broke up with her initially when she called me by her ex-boyfriend’s name. But time and time again I don’t know how she did it she was able to get me back into her game. She was able to slither her way back into my life every time by using the powerful weapon of hot sex, now that I think about it.
Intentionally hurting through lies
I later determined that she was trying to turn me into a willing victim. Every time she would do something horrible to me, she would want to get closer to me and love bomb me again. How can someone purposely go out of their way to hurt another person?? I don’t get it! Why waste so much time!
While all this was taking place she told me lies within lies and deceptions within deception! I wanted to believe her, but I didn’t believe her. Such outlandish lies! She likely lied to me about difficult things from when she was younger to get my pity. How could such a hurt person who is so vulnerable do such monstrous things to me? It made no sense to me. As a result I remained in a fog mentally and emotionally, wondering if I was losing my mind.
Girlfriend and boyfriend
Now after Thanksgiving, she wanted space from me and I was dumbfounded and upset! A week before, she started a fight with me and justified going out with another guy and told me the details about how she was a good girl even though they talked about sex! After she told me this, she held my hand like she was my girlfriend!
Oh yeah, during our relationship, we spent tons of time together and she would put her arm under my arm while walking my dog, etc. She was making me think I was all hers and she was into me, basically my girlfriend. It was all a facade. I fell in love with a person who didn’t exist.
Smirks
This part was really creepy to me. A couple days before Thanksgiving, she was over my house and as she walked out of my bathroom, she gave a big smile, but I only looked at her from the corner of my eye. What I saw was creepy! Out of the side of my vision, I saw that the smile was fake and I caught a quick glimpse of a person wearing a mask! Every other time she smiled at me I looked at her directly and it seemed sincere.
When I caught her being deceptive and lying, she didn’t seem sorry but instead had a smirk on her face and duper’s delight as they call it after I researched it. There was another time she asked me if I wanted a particular thing, and I said yes. After I answered, I saw a quick smirk on her face. Later it was her feeling good about duping me again about the question she asked. Now that I think about it, every time she upset me and hurt me through deception and lies, she probably enjoyed it and I believe got a rush from it. Crazy!
Needing space
Now after we both agreed for the umpteenth time to give space to each other after Thanksgiving, she broke the agreement and contacted me three days later wanting to see me etc. I ignored her because I had come to a definite conclusion that I was dealing with a sociopath and dangerous person emotionally for me.
I began researching online back in early October 2013 to try and make sense of what was happening to me. I thought I was going crazy and needed to deal with some personal issues since I was constantly mad at her and expressed it verbally several times. She later tried to get me to believe that what I said to her was just as bad as what she did to me.
Anyway, I read a lot of websites, articles and the book by Dr. Stout and it all began to make sense. I found Lovefraud.com and read the testimonies of people and saw parts of my experience in almost every story. It was comforting but still painful and shocking to come to grips with what I had been experiencing. I identified with some of the traits that made me a potential bulls eye /target for her.
Wanting me back
Ok, so since I ignored her after Thanksgiving, she started to call me several times a day and sent 30 or 40 text messages to get me back into her game. I still ignored her, despite how difficult it was. It was extremely difficult since I care about her, but the more no contact with her, the more the fog lifted and I saw how many horrible lies and things she did to me and how I was duped by her.
She eventually wound up in a mental hospital early December with OCD from contacting me and depression. She tried to blame me for it, but I was simply breaking free from her control and saw through her manipulation. I thought that when she contacted me often she loved me, but it was just to control/own me, so to speak.
Knowledge is power
Wow knowledge is power and wisdom is acting on that power ”¦
I contacted her in the hospital because I love her and that’s when she asked me in a negative tone why I never returned her calls and blamed me for her hospital stay. I got upset and hung up the phone instead of yelling. Yet again she was successful at messing with my emotions.
She would send me poems and tried to contact me for the month of December 2013 and I continued to read them because I liked the attention and wanted to believe she could actually change and love me the way I need to be loved.
I still didn’t contact her until after Christmas when she wished me a happy birthday and Christmas. I contacted her and the whole games began again for a couple days and I broke free again. I find it ironic that she would up in the hospital instead of me because of all the abuse I got from her.
Start from scratch?
In January 2014, she wanted to start from scratch with our relationship and I said no unless she tells the truth about something she obviously lied about before. Ridiculous, I know, for me to want to have a friendship with benefits kind of a thing. I had not been acting sane at this point.
So she continued to tell her ridiculous terrible lies; the truth was blatantly obvious. I told her I want nothing more to do with a liar!
This was when she told me she slept with her OTHER EX twice while being with me. She called me the following day begging to come sleep in my bed. I was shocked and speechless and she hung up on me. Even until the end she was hoping to keep me as her willing victim. She chose to keep her lies and dirty secrets over having anything to do with me in the future.
I gave her so many chances to change and do right by me. I knew that the new person was simply another mask she was putting on. All her actions before were in the past to be forgotten and forgiven, but saying sorry and making false promises gets old. Come to think of it, she had mentioned herself as a phoenix! The scary thing is, I don’t think she is done with me yet.
Emotional sobriety
It has been 10 days since last contact through Facebook and it has been like starting over with emotional sobriety. Every time I wound up in any kind of contact, it had been awful and emotionally painful as it brought up painful memories.
I believe she didn’t like the fact that I dumped her finally for good, and that she wasn’t able to hurt me again emotionally by sharing other guys she slept with while being with me. It is shocking how she would share different emotionally painful things right when it would hurt me the most. The 19-year-old guy she slept with I found out on my own and foiled her plans to hit me with that zinger. My God, the betrayal and lies/deception! She knew what she was doing to me. After I caught her in a deception, she got a parking ticket and claimed it was karma getting back at her!
Today I am slowly recovering. I feel depressed, shocked, angry and hurt all around.
I am still dumbfounded that there are people like this in the world. Also the bad luck I had of coming across a female sociopath, where there are around three million in this country I believe? I have watched a lot of horror movies and seen things that are evil, but this takes it too a whole new level as they are monsters with sweet caring masks and a dagger behind their backs. Also they aren’t usually discovered until damage has been done.
But I also see how this negative, painful experience will make me a better person in the long run. They say the best revenge is to live a good, honest and happy life. I have every intention of doing so by Grace.
BOOK REVIEW: Living and Loving After Betrayal
wow was it someone on here that said go watch I, Psychopath?
I can hardly watch it, watching him PROJECT onto the camera man/documentarist. It’s like watching me and my honeypot, my boo ~coughcoughCHOKE~~
It’s scary. Why didnt i slap his face the first time he called M.E. SelfisH???? ME??!!??
Esp at the moments he was being selfish in only the DEPTH that a narc can do.
I seriously AMAZE myself. ~shakinghead~ And sicken myself.
Reflection for OK,not an idiot: Somethings are not common and some are? Gender specific no, intelligent, stupid, and all in between. Some things common are they have to feed their desires and even more than wealth,sex, or any other tool is their “EGO”. They study you to find your vulnerabilities and will do whatever it takes to deceive and control you, after all deception is everything to them. Observe that a cat sometimes will catch a mouse and if they are not hungry they will play with it, knocking it around and taunting it before they finally kill it. We’ve all been the mouse and sometimes if they are comfortably in control it can go on a long time but as soon as they perceive their deception and control is threatened comes the kill.
Well said!! You think and write well. I heard a song on the radio yesterday that speaks to what we have been speaking about. Although the whole song speaks of possible Spath tendencies, one line struck me. John Mayer’s Heartbreak Warfare says “how come the only way to know high you get me is to see how far I fall”. I think we can all relate to that!
She sounds borderline… Whatever she is, she can’t help being and it’s not personal to you. She’ll yoyo between ex’s and newbies for the rest of her life if they’re willing. That wasn’t her first hospitalization either. So, she’ll be in and out of hospitals like she’s in and out of beds.
There ain’t going to be any time to relax, enjoy a home cooked meal or sit out on the back patio enjoying the garden you planted together… All the time is going to be wasted on the strife/struggle within a miserable mess. Hard for me to imagine that her being GIB is going to make up for all that’s going to the wayside for the messes in the works all the time.
That’s what you describe the last half of the relationship like. And when you talk p At age 40, I’d think you’d be running from drama, protecting your dignities and wanting someone with real prospects of a decent, peaceful and sound life. How good can the sex be between the messes to make up for what’s going to get wasted here? Did you want children? She would. Can you really wreck helpless, innocent lives?
I get it’s all still fresh for you and you’re hurting…That’s why the reality check. It was sick and twisted, it will always be for the pathology.
Viewpint
Thank you for your comment and insight. I have reclaimed my dignity and respect. I am feeling anxious, depressed, lonely etc..but to ever let another manipulate me into letting that go again; I would rather die than to ever allow another monster to victimize me. Yea I am going through trauma…An older chap who should have known better…WHAT?? Spaths are something unexpected altogether!!! If she had done the things she did without being a sp, I doubt I would have put up with it…There is just something about a dark soul that just sucked me right in and almost led me to lose myself entirely!!! Spaths are like black holes. Once who cross the threshold, their negative energy sucks you right in into fantasy world where they are the puppeteers and the ignorant are merely play toys for their lack of soul…She did seem to have borderline but then I had a friend who had this and he was a mess but deep inside he had a conscience and felt bad about his behavior. This monster I know for a fact did not truly feel bad about what she did to me. If fact she enjoyed hurting me emotionally; I saw it in her face and whenever she came “clean” she was doing me dirty at the same time. Basically I was a mouse in her eyes when I thought I was her mac daddy!..lol
By the time I figured her out, I became a wounded mouse and became stunned at realizing I had been sleeping with my greatest enemy. Or analogous to a mouse seeing a cat close up!!
I see where you would question me staying with her months after finding out about infidelity but f you have experienced a sp intimately, you would understand my illogical behavior. You have heard stories of older psychologists being duped by sp lovers and clients etc..so I question whether you know what I am talking about in the first place. I would venture you have a relative who experienced a sp or a friend…We didn’t plant anything by the way:)
She sounds borderline… Whatever she is, she can’t help it and it’s not personal to you. She’s yo-yo’d between exs and newbies before. She’ been hospitalized before, too. And she’ll keep going in and out of beds and hospitals. She’s bottomless in needs because she’s actually empty and it’s terrifying because there is no refuge that can last. She keeps you exs all around her because each of you can, for a moment, ease her. She’ll say anything/do anything to keep you near and she means it at the moment but sincerity won’t hold up against what ravages in her.
It can’t be fixed. It can be tempered by the rare client spending big money and time in therapy and only because they see therapy as their only recourse. The pathology does tend to burn out at age 50 or 60 years…but whose left there after isn’t someone with vitality or purpose.
You’re age 40. You’re going to feel yourself as crazy/ridiculous for wasting the years you have left on this to see it as just as messy and miserable 20 years from now as it was this past year. You wouldn’t be spending all that time on the fruitless, no much worse: You’d be spending it in the state you are in now… Ruminating, agnonizing, pained and sick of the whole thing; including yourself.
Do you see her functioning level clearly? You indicated the hospitalization and dropping out of a facilitator role she had but the manner you spoke of those, suggested that you might not be seeing these things separate from you and for what they are: Her instabilities that seriously cut into her ability to reliably function, hold her own and stay plodding on.
I urge you stand back from you/your hurt/the great sex to see the person you are describing as evidently not suitable to make a life with unless you dreamed of a miserable, senseless and embarrassing one. God help if there were helpless children in the mix to ruin and ruin their lives because you wouldn’t see it as it really is.
I’d think at your age, you’d want not just sex but a home cooked meal, a relaxed evening, getting together with friends without worry that she’d be hooking up with one of them or making a scene,etc…. The mundane stuff but pretty important when you don’t have it.
Truelove,
Listen to viewpoint, I spent 10 years with someone like this and we had 2 kids, its a total mess, and im now sitting here attempting to kick myself in the face wondering why in the hell I stuck around for so long.
Your right viewpoint, mine was a bottomless pit of needs, no matter what I did it was not enough, or good enough for her. She too would keep exs around or other men that were not exs, I don’t know if she slept with them or not but I always fealt she kept them around as some kind of safety net for herself.
Life with her will never be normal, it might for a few days or weeks, then the ugly monster will rise from the pits of hell yet again and you will find yourself arguing, leaving the house, angry, depressed, wondering why its like this, going through silent treatment, then a few days or a week of normal then the cycle repeats, and it wont matter what you do, it will never stop, and the more feelings you get for her/him the harder it will be to leave, especially if children are involved and you will be a miserable wreck on a roller coaster ride of emotions that never stops long enough for you to exit the ride until you leave and go no contact permanently.
Trust me, this has caused me anxiety problems as well ill admit I started drinking way more than normal for several years now as it helped keep me calm and curb the anxiety attacks (self medication basically)
Let me show you how these people work, maybe some part of them cares but as viewpoint showed what ravages in them overrides any common sense or feelings for another. I got to drinking so much I decided to quit cold turkey, she drinks but not often, she complained about mine so I told her one day I think I may have a problem and I should just cut alcohol out of my life, she agreed. I asked her not to bring it in the house and she said “your not going to tell me I cant drink in my own home” so I said well at least hide it and be discreet about it. Well I would see her fill a glass full of ice then walk back to the bedroom and come out with whiskey/coke, or have a glass of wine, I told her at least put it in a coffee cup so I cant see what it is, she even smiled one day when I caught her. I went 2 weeks without so much as a sip, I found her stash one day and had a shot and a couple beers, when she got home I told her about this and she flew off the handle, but guess why? Not because of concern for me, but because “that’s my alcohol that I payed for, I cant believe you drank my shit”
I am not making this up, no concern for my well being or me being man enough to admit I had a problem, only concern for her stuff and the money she spent.
Dave
I really do feel for but cannot understand the depth you suffered. I have a friend who was married to an abusive woman for 30 years. She dumped him a couple years ago and he wound up in a psych ward for severe depression. Going through years of abuse like that I cannot imagine! I was only involved with this girl for like 7 months and I feel like I went through the wringer with all the racing thoughts, depression, anxiety and nightmares at all the lies etc…Oh yea the more and more I have distanced myself, the more and more of lies I am realizing! She was never honest and upfront with me from the beginning! She was especially tricky because she seems to be so caring. She was intelligent but lacked common sense. She studied psychology in college or took some classes. Anyway I am still pissed off and am hard inside. I go shopping out and about and can’t help but to be angry at people in general. I know this is a part of the healing process but I just had no idea people could be so evil. I know it happens like stalin, hitler, murderers etc…but to meet a girl who seemed so sweet and mature etc…actually be such an ugly soul…Its the whole contrast of what is on the inside and outside of a person…I was especially taken back because I thought most women were kind and caring. I don’t know, I am still into the 1st month of NContact..
Remember the phrase “They walk among us” The mental health association estimates that 1% to 4% of the population are sociopath,even tough many of these might be in the milder catageory they are all around us.
By the wey there was an article I found very interesting in the Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk, VA.) from International news I believe Septeember 7, 2013. It was titled “Loyal to the end” as the last of Hitler’s 2 bodyguards died. The article went on and on quoting him as to what a prince of a guy he was and the best boss anyone could ever have. I recommend it to everyone to explain that most of the people who haven’t been bitten by the viper can’t believe that they’re not a wonderful person and they readily serve as their enablers. They refuse to look at their actions.
Truelove,
Its like the old saying, 1 day in jail is 1 too many! Yeah I know mine was 10 years and yours was 7 months, but you fell for her hard, I was in love with mine probly within 3-4 months, I just didn’t see any signs until after I moved in, and it was too late, she was pregnant, and im not going to leave a pregnant woman.
Mine too is intelligent but at times lacking common sense. I too get angry just looking at people cause in my mind I wonder if they are like her. Mine seemed sweet and mature, and just had it rough growing up, I though if I loved her and stayed loyal/faithful it would make her trust me and be happy, boy was I wrong. The sweet innocent soul that was wronged as a child that made me so happy for 8 months turned into a raging monster from hell that did nothing but make me feel horrible about myself while she got away with bloody murder. She got everything she wanted from me, she got the 2 kids she always wanted, a house, a solid family life for once, her own business, a loyal man who ran said business and did things many men don’t (cooking dinner, doing laundry, helping clean, taking kids to and from school, ect…) and all I ever heard was how she was responsible for everything and how little I did, how hard of a worker she was and how lazy I was, how smart she was and how dumb I was, how she carried me and took care of me, how I should feel lucky because of her that I had a job (nevermind that business was my idea and I helped get it off the ground) then in one breath telling me she failed to give me the credit I deserved for being more of a team member to the business, to saying “you don’t do enough for the business, if not for me you wouldn’t have a job”
on and on and on and on the list goes, I could sit here all night and write stuff about this 10 year illusion I lived!!!
Viewpoint
Good points all around. She has been in and out of hospitals. She has been keeping all her guy “friends” around just to get a quick fix. She is getting sober from alcoholism and pills. Yea you are right. What have I been doing wasting my precious time?
I see where there are borderline traits, but just the lack of empathy and dupers delight leans toward psychopathy.
I need to rebuilt my social life etc. Practically non-existent at this point unfortunately. Yea being early 40s. I am not your typical 40 something. I was that way in my 30s…dinner with friends, wine parties etc. God I need a change of scenery and away from the east coast! Grew up here and tired of living here…
Funny you say that about relocating. When I made the break and things were looking up I thought to myself, it’s got to get better then this, this is too easy. Then it hit me, Most of my life i wanted to visit a specific city. Always felt a draw. So I bought a ticket and went for a week alone. It was amazing. Better than I could have imagined. I came back eager to get back to that city and renewed as I now have another goal. I wont make any rash decisions as I must plan and be sure i’m not running away. I figure in the next 2-3 years I will have everything in place and if I still want to go, I know I am not running away. I will be ready to start my new life anew. It’s exciting really. Anyway, point is explore ideas as it keeps your mind busy and don’t rush into anything. Explore and enjoy.
Truelove, there are still a lot of decent, caring people in the world. My take-away from what I went through with the spath and other assorted disordered men over the years is to take things very slowly. I now take a long time to get to know a man, and I insist developing a non-sexual friendship. I don’t jump into bed with a guy at the first sign of attraction like I used to. In fact, if the man starts discussing sex too quickly or if I don’t feel safe around him in a friendship way, then there is NO sex, no matter how attracted I am to him.
In a way I miss my youth and innocence when I just let myself fall for every guy I was attracted to and let the chips fall where they would. But now if I see a guy looking at me with a predatory stare or bringing up sex in every conversation or standing too close, or love-bombing me too soon, I see those things as red flags. I even look for yellow flags, such as a guy who will put me on hold to take another call or is attached at the ear to a cell phone. I look at how a person views their life, whether they take responsibility for their actions and learn from their mistakes. These are signs of character, and they have become so very important to me in friends and potential partners. If you are looking for a long-term relationship, getting hot and heavy with someone early on is counterproductive to that goal. This does not excuse anyone for being deceptive, sadistic, and manipulative. But it gives you a better shot at protecting yourself. If you do all those things, there are STILL no guarantee with relationships. But there comes a point when the desire for connection is worth taking another risk. It takes time to get there after a serious betrayal.
I agree with you that I don’t think your ex is borderline. Borderlines are not sadistic like yours was. They just suffer from an intense fear of abandonment which they need to act out repeatedly. Yours sounds seriously high on the antisocial scale, such as with a sociopath.
being put on hold has got to be the rudest thing we’ve invented in a long long time. no one puts me on hold. I hang up. someone else is more important? well i’ll help u out with that…click. i ignore any call i get coming in. i am not that important lol. the world will go on just fine if i listen to the vmail in 20 min.
i dont get that concept of call waiting. i call it call RUDE.
ok, vent over…:0
star,
im not sure what mine is, but I don’t think she is sadistic. I think she is a borderline with narcissitic mixed in. Ive told you all before she has said please never leave me, or we just cant be apart ect ect…yet shes the one always kicking me out. She is deathly afraid of what others think of her, and I believe she projects tons of what she feels onto me, for instance her mother and step father would get in shouting/shoving matches, her mom would pack her and the car up but always got back together with the guy sometimes not even making it out of the driveway, similar between me and her for 10 years. I often told her that she treated me like her mother did her. “nothing is good enough and her shit don’t stink”
When she says things like I don’t care about her and the kids, or she thinks I want to kill her, or I treat her like shit ect ect..I wonder if shes not projecting her own feelings onto me as if im the one feeling that way?? Shes overly controlling as she is a scared little girl at heart, scared of abandonment, scared of what others think of her, scared of failure, that business we had, no matter how much better it was doing then what everyone thought, she always was freaking out thinking it was on the verge of collapsing or wasn’t doing very well ect ect…she always seems to subconsciously be doing things simply to please others in other words just to prove them wrong or prove a point of “hey im awesome look what I just did” she put herself through college just to prove to her parents she did something good and did it without them, she told me this to my face one day.
This sounds strange but I honestly, well part of me feels sorry for her,,for what she went through and how it has effected her life, shes so paranoid, and hell bent on control and keeping up this persona of perfection to others that she doesn’t even realize she just ruined her own family, I fully believe shes so paranoid and tells the lies so often that she truly believes this is all my fault. I also believe she looked at me as a problem to her image since im a convicted felon and never made tons of money at my jobs, at first her friends told me she was highly defensive of me, later I think she started telling one too many tall tales about me and people got the wrong idea, plus add in the felonies , and I think they started telling her im a loser, which in her eyes made her look bad for choosing me. Ive seen kindess in her, whether it was real or just done to serve a motive, well probly both at times. All these years I used to tell her how much potential she had to be such a great person as well as a great wife and mother, now I know why I said all that, cause I knew something wasn’t right and she wasn’t reaching her potential, she thinks she is by keeping up this false image of perfection, when deep down she is terrified at heart of many things.
ill shut up now lol
star,
hmm side note, I wonder two things about the whole kicking me out once a year, one I think it was a control factor to let me know whos boss and to mess with my reality and make me feel at fault,,,two I think she did it so others would see that she left me and think it must have been my fault, that way she didn’t look flawed or faulty?
Stargazer
Thank you for the good advice. You are right that it is better to get to know a person before even considering it becoming sexual. For sopaths, that is not a problem but empathic people, leads to emotional attachment quickly and I think thats why sopaths rush sex so quickly to get their claws in us fast. They know us better than we know ourselves many times!! Wow I can’t believe I said that but its true!It is going to take me some time before I can state dating again and not be sexual within the first month or two. Anyway I need to be patient and good to myself. Life is difficult enough as it is. Why there are people just to make it that much more difficult/dangerous? Thoughts going through my head…
Dave,
Your relationship with your wife reminds me very much of a relationship I had almost 30 years ago. I had deep abandonment issues, and he was a heavy drinker and recreational drug user, and those things had caused him to lose his job and eventually his house. Neither of us had the consciousness to create a healthy relationship. We were very co-dependent, blaming each other for our problems and expecting each other to be the other’s caretaker. We both had fundamental problems that we had not addressed. We verbally abused each other and fought like crazy. But we were too attached to split up. I won’t go into all the details. Looking back nearly 30 years later, I was not in a good place when I met him. He rescued me from a bad living situation, and I became dependent on him for a place to live and a car to drive. Eventually, he was my only emotional connection, which was not healthy. He loved me like crazy, but could be very controlling and unwilling to accept any responsibility for our problems. He blamed me for everything. He felt that since he took care of me so much, he had certain expectations of what I would do for him. Some of those things I didn’t want to do, like giving him my bank card to take money out of my bank account for food. Granted, I would have just bought the food or even given him the money. But I have certain personal boundaries. When I wouldn’t let him cross that boundary, he considered me as extremely selfish and withdrew the use of his vehicle so I couldn’t get to work, which sabotaged my job. We basically were too enmeshed with each other to have healthy independent lives. We both had periods of leaving or being kicked out and then coming back together. There was a lot of drama. Even after just a year and a half, I had developed an emotional bond with him, his friends, and his life. It was very difficult to break away. So I cannot even imagine what it’s like after 10 years! The thing that finally broke the bond was when I met another guy. I was too emotionally weak to make a clean break with my ex, so when he found out about the new guy, it hurt him deeply and he lashed out at me. We never spoke again. I bet if you asked him today, he would still tell you that I am evil and a “bucket of misery” as he used to call me. And I would say he was an alcoholic who refused to accept any responsibility for anything.
Looking back all those years ago, I realize how enmeshed we were. I moved into his home hardly knowing him. Within two weeks we were sleeping together and professing our love for each other. This is how I rolled back then. I believed Bob was the right man in my life to save me, just as you say your wife saved you from a very dark place. But when his controlling side (and my borderline side) came out, we just couldn’t cope and we self-destructed.
It took nearly 30 years to learn that no one can save me except me. No one else is responsible for my happiness but me. It is not anyone’s job to help me break any addictions of fix my problems. And until I get a handle on these things, I will not really be a good partner for someone else. I have to be right for me before I can be right for someone else. If someone disrespects me or violates my boundaries, it is MY responsibility to uphold them – not theirs. If I let them do it again and again, the responsibility falls squarely on me! I need to find out why. Was I so out of touch with my anger? Did I think if I could just put up with them, they would change? Was I too emotionally bonded to leave? These are things I need to look at and fix BEFORE I go out and find someone else.
Dave, I hope it doesn’t take you 30 years to learn this like it did for me. But when I hear how really dysfunctional the two of you are together, I can’t help thinking that you really really need to get away and get some help for your own issues.
I find myself being curious about your past felony that you mentioned in another post, what it was, and how you learned from it. Though you don’t need to share if you don’t want.
See there’s another example of being called selfish when either
A) no one’s being selfish, not giving ur card out if u don’t want is completely different from using his vehicle for WORK, if that had already been agreed, especially
or
B)*he’s* being the selfish one
It’s all a bunch of rot. U were sick too, Stargazer, but he was abusive. Thats just makes me so sad to read these stories of projection like i endured.
I found a Dr Phil show on utube about NPDs. the 2nd person on it is the NPD i was with, except female. It’s hard to watch it BUT
she KNOWS and admits she’s a narc.
AND SHE WANTS TO CHANGE.
I started crying watching it, just suddenly. CAN narcs rly change?? With the narc i knew, its a moot point. he could see Jesus 2mrw & change. It dont change a thang as to the hell he created & DENIED for TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LONG. move on, hon.
but can others rly change? i think they can be empathic, they only have to have 5 out of the 9 traits to be clinically diagnosed.
BUT then again, HOW can someone see something from another’s view and ABUSE THEM?? war wouldnt happen if we cud see another person’s view.
Dear ain’t, you’re so right. The things he did – taking away the car, etc., were abusive. But one of the things I’ve learned in the 23 years since I left him is that I really need to know who I am and what I want in life in order to share my life with another. And until this happens, I will attract rescuers and other co-dependent types. This is a must, and I have never really understood it until recently. I have been on a path of discovering who I am. And it has nothing to do with him – he was a catalyst along the way. The one that came after him (the one I left him for) was a real doozy. Someday maybe I’ll tell that story. Again, I was young and vulnerable and learning – learning about men, learning about myself. The lessons were very painful – letting myself be controlled by men. But now it’s not about them and what they were. It’s about what I want from a man and what I don’t want. Because of all these past relationships, I have a better idea of what works and doesn’t work.
I mentioned in the post about energy work that I can sense people’s energies very easily. I recently was talking with a man on the dating site whose energy was truly wonderful. I don’t think we match up in other ways, but I really really appreciated the kind of person he is. And there is another guy I have actually dated a few times whom I really like. But he is a little ADD with his cell phone, though he’s actually trying to change that habit for me. I can sense his energy too – the things I like and the things I don’t like. Fortunately for me I have dated SO VERY many men in my 53 years, that I just get a sense of what type of man they are when I meet them, and how it feels to be around them. I watch very closely and don’t jump in too quickly. This puts me more at choice in my relationships, rather than acting on physical attraction.
For instance, I dated a guy last year whom I was very attracted to. He was a real take-charge Leo man, very confident, and a blast to be around. He was very attracted to me. After knowing each other for 6 months and going out on a few dates, he took me on a cruise. I deliberately did not have sex with him, though we kissed and cuddled a lot. After the cruise, he approached me in a very sexual way. And I’ll have you know I was DYING to sleep with him. But there was something missing – the emotional connection was not completely there. I actually fled his house that night because I knew if I stayed, I would sleep with him. And I knew I would get attached. And I knew I would get burned. In the past I would not have resisted. But the new me is holding out for a man of higher moral character. This is me exercising my choices by simply observing my feelings and sensing their energy. When I got scared and ran, I called to tell him that I do not do casual sex. That’s when he told me he does not want a “girlfriend”. And he never called me again. So my instincts served me well – I had dodged a bullet.
To let that relationship 23 years ago get to the point where I was abused, I first had to be in a totally financially dependent position. I had no other place to live and no car to drive. I was totally dependent on him. I will never get to that point again. So I don’t ever expect a man to control me like that again.
Star,
I don’t mind talking about my record, I was 19 when I did the crimes, im 34 now and have never been arrested since.
It was all theft related, no drugs or violence, I have nothing violent on my record. I spent 14 months in state prison, had a fiancé and a baby on the way (she knew I was getting locked up before we hooked up) she left me after 8 months of jail, married some guy and refused to let me see my kid. When I got out was really down in the dumps, and having problems finding work and the work I did find was garbage dead end low paying jobs. Was in and out of college, then I met her. I spoke once on here how I met her and I don’t mind sharing this, I caught herpes from a girl in 2003, I met my ex on a H dating site in 2004. So yeah she kinda sparked my life and made me happy again, but the instant we moved in together she changed, I mean I went to work in a month after moving in, payed bills, helped around the house, but she still wasn’t happy, sex life was phenomenal but still not happy, she just got more pushy and demanding, then I found she was lying about talking to an ex.
As far as what I learned of the felony you ask? I learned that first off I don’t want to risk shit like that and spend my life in that rathole,,and more important when I got my first apartment after that and worked for my things I realized one day coming home from work when opening the door “how would I feel if I walked in and all my nice stuff I worked for was gone”? (I committed burglary) It was then that I truly fealt bad for what I did and not just cause I got caught.
I honestly think we made an awesome couple except for her outburst and constant blaming me for things, we made it far in 10 years, but she would always say things like “I don’t feel like im going anywhere with you” WTF?? neither of us had much of shit when we met, now have 2 kids, a nice house with nice stuff, and a business with a dream to save up and move closer towards the country and out of the city, kids are healthy and doing great in school, company was doing great, so I have no clue why she made remarks like that other than to just make me feel bad or guilt trip me into doing even more, who knows, all I know is I cant go back, she will not change and she has admitted it, ill wind up out on the street again come next thanksgiving after helping her pay bills and progress her business while she keeps ownership over it all.
Thanks but no thanks, it just feels so weird, as im 100 miles away back in my hometown and I just don’t feel like I belong here, I feel it in my bones, everything is all wrong, but I cant go back, don’t know how else to explain it, it confuses me too.
Dave, thanks so much for sharing your very personal information. It really helps me to get a better sense of who you are. Everyone’s story is different and yet I see parts of myself mirrored in all of them, so I’m always learning something.
I am so very sorry that you invested so many years of your life with someone that you hoped could change, someone whom you believed loved you deep down, or would or could with the right encouragement. All I can say is that when this has happened to me and I found out the person really didn’t love me, the betrayal took a long time to get over. Years.
The one thing you have on your side is that you are very young. You are 20 years younger than I am (God, I feel old LOL). You have your whole life ahead of you. I have never been in a 10-year relationship so I cannot imagine the level of grief. Try as best as you can to have some structure – a place to go to, even if it’s a support group for ex-felons or a divorce support group. A men’s group has been helpful for a friend of mine who went through a very painful divorce. You also need to really feel the pain and let it just totally wash over you when it comes up. Don’t medicate yourself with food or alcohol or whatever your drug of choice is. Just let yourself feel broken and grieve.
All the rest of advice is very valid, but will come later when you’re a little less raw. Please just take good care of yourself.
Thanks star,
And yeah the 10 years make it much more difficult. I believe much of my problem is looking at myself then my friends and I see one is a firefighter, one is a bank manager ect ect..here I am a convicted felon working 10 dollar an hour jobs in my 30s and it makes me feel like a failure.
When my fiancé left me with my newborn it crushed me, and we were only together for a hair under 2 years, when I got in trouble I made up my mind to stop the nonsense, I got a job , stayed out of trouble and met my fiancé, I got my first car and first apartment and had a baby on the way and I fealt good about myself. I lost my trial and did 14 months, she left, when I came home I had to start from scratch. 2 years went by, I slept with probly 4-5 women and fealt nothing along the lines of relationship with any of them, jobs were scarce for me, couldn’t see my newborn, on probation, just seemed my life would never get better. Then is when I met the disordered one.
It wasn’t just the good sex, something else was there, ive only fealt it 3 times before her with a woman, its that feeling that you know you “want” to spend time with them and not just in the bedroom, I found myself after just a couple months like an exited kid on Christmas waiting on Friday night so I could go spend the weekend with her (was 100 mile drive) she was supportive and didn’t hold my past against me, told me to stick with school, was nice, fun to be around, seemed to have her head on straight, and no drama, and before long I realized just how happy I was and that I had my second shot at starting another family and getting back on track. That’s when she got arrested for being awol from the army. In a letter she sent me while in there she told me that she didn’t think I had deserved the punishment I got and continued to get for my crimes, that I was a good man, however she said something odd which was “all my life ive had to take care of myself, I just want somebody to help take care of me for once” in the next sentence said “but I don’t know how to handle someone else taking care of me cause ive done it myself for so long” Right there was like a warning that “nothing you do will work” at least that’s how I see it now.
When she got out a month later I picked her up and we got a hotel on the way home, we agreed to move in together, in 2 days I noticed she was getting a bit pushy and more demanding, I chalked it up to she just expects more cause we live together, then the arguing started, and got progressively worse, then the physical part happened, its like she was testing to see how much she could get away with. She said one night “you should feel obligated to help me pay off my school loans” yet I went and bought us a brand new family car and 3 years later when I couldn’t afford it she refused to help with it so I lost it. We used that car for all our long trips to our parents, she also would drive it too work sometimes. So she bought a 1200 dollar old car, and was still kicking me out and I had no car, so I had to buy this damn thing from her for 600 bucks even though she still got to use it, just so I could put it in my name and legally drive off when she kicked me out.
Since jail ive dreamed of running my own business to avoid background checks and because I admit I have some authority issues with people telling me what to do. I tried and she said no, while working for a rival company under a no compete clause she magically wanted to do my business idea and did, but it got put in her name as I couldn’t risk being sued, I couldn’t hand her money for it, cause she already got half my paycheck for bills and the rest was for my personal debts and to get through pay period, but I helped in all other ways boost that company off the ground, only for her to tell me she would never put my name on it unless I handed her thousands of dollars.
So here I find myself for a 2nd time, life in ruins, with nothing, and having to start from scratch again, im getting tired of starting over to this extreme, and it has caused me to have MASSIVE anger/resentment issues with this woman while she gets everything up there I helped her obtain, and I get stuck in my mothers basement with a broken down car and no job, and now have to defend myself in court from abuse allegations!! I go Thursday, I have two witnesses and a slew of questions for her (cause oh yes im putting her on stand) no money for a lawyer, but im not stupid, and I believe I have enough evidence for a judge to dismiss this CPO. Im a nervous wreck the closer this day gets, I hate all eyes on me, im the quiet guy at a bar or club that just sits back and watches others and enjoys my drinks, I never was very outgoing with just up and talking to women and dancing. I do not want to hear her voice let alone see her face in that courtroom, its already effecting my stomach, had some issues this morning when I woke up.
Do I feel betrayed, hell yes, am I madder than hell,,hell yes,,am I sad, hell yes, am I just as pissed at myself, big hell yes. I could have prevented this long ago after seeing one too many signs and just left, filed for support/visitation and been done with it. I cant hardly function right now, I cannot get my mind off this junk, and I have little to no motivation, and im still second guessing myself at times as I hear her voice telling me im pathetic, a loser, haven’t accomplished nothing, I almost feel brainwashed.
Dave, one thing that stuck out to me like a strobe light in you post, and I hope you don’t mind, because it’s so common was “I have problems with people telling me what to do”. I think we all go through that at some stage in our lives and I would like to say something that may put it in perspective. Something maybe to think about the next time you feel that way because it may be the one thing holding you back from discovering your real potential”your purpose. Most times people are not trying to boss you around. You just take it that way. People try and communicate to solve problems and many people suck at communication so it comes across as bossy. Or they are very insecure. Believe it or not, most people care more about how you see them then how they see you. Sound like someone you know? ☺ People don’t care that you were in jail. You care and they read that on you even if it’s just energy, they feel it. Maybe the next time you feel that way try to tell yourself (not them) they just are not a good communicators and show compassion. This compassion puts you in control of the situation and you will earn the respect of all who witness it but most importantly, your self-confidence will change over night. Took me a while to figure that out but when I did, I too started my own business and it changed my life. You have every opportunity, may be hard at times but only you can stand in your way. I have a poster on my wall, it says “the question isn’t who is going to let me, it’s who is going to stop me”. No one will stop you but you!
ok,
I developed this issue after I got out of prison (for obvious reasons lol)
It only got worse with her as she tried to control everything and I resented it, I wanted us to be equals. Im old fashioned however I don’t buy the shit of the man is head of household and he is the law, women resent that garbage and I didn’t want her resenting me. I will say this, I told her once that I believe men and women are equals and do you know this woman got mad, started yelling at me in the garage, broke down in tears and said “david if you hit me you would cave my face in and I would need surgery so don’t tell me we are equal”
WTF??? What woman gets mad at a man for stating he believes we are equals?? There are women on this planet that could stomp my ass im sure of it, yeah I could probly easily dismantle my ex if I wanted, but I meant we are equals in life, mentality, intelligence, decision making, as parents, homeowners, ect ect…I wasn’t trying to tell her I think she could beat me up and shes just as strong as me and I have no clue why she thought that or why it made her cry.
I know only myself is standing in the way, I have to get over this, get motivated and get back out there, otherwise ill be stuck in this basement feeling sorry for myself forever.
But you are most correct.
Dave, I believe that people who have committed crimes, assuming they are not sociopaths, and pay their dues to society, should have a clean slate, assuming they have changed. But you are right – it is difficult to get hired at many places with a felony record. The organization I work for does a background check. I don’t even think they hire with a misdemeanor. That’s whey I say there may be a support group – even and online support group – for ex-felons.
It is much more difficult for a man to feel good about himself when he doesn’t have gainful employment than a woman because being able to provide is essential to a man’s masculine pride. I would like you to know that I have great respect for any man who is out there working or trying to work, even if it is at McDonald’s. It doesn’t matter the income. I’ve dated men who were poorer than me (and that’s hard to be). One of my favorite lovers from the past drove a 20-year-old vehicle. He used to ask me if he could “turn on the air conditioner for the lady” and then manually roll down the windows for me. Even though he was poor, he was a perfect gentlemen. He always drove, saved up for two weeks to pay for dates, and opened doors for me. He was kind and generous with what little he had, and this made a huge impression on me. The only reason we broke up is that he didn’t seem to want to commit after 6 months and I did.
If you don’t have a job and a car at this point in your life, it doesn’t make you less of a man. It just means you can’t date until you get those things. That’s all. And you’re not ready to date anyway. And you don’t need another woman to rescue you.
Several years ago, I chit-chatted with the sales guy in the appliance section of Sears. He was trying to sell me a washer/dryer. He was a very interesting and educated person with a diverse background trying to make ends meet selling appliances. About 6 months later, I went to see a movie, and there was that same guy selling popcorn. He apparently got laid off from Sears. Here was this masters educated guy probably working for $8 an hour selling popcorn. The first thought that went through my mind was how much I respected him for going out there and getting a job, even if it wasn’t up to his caliber. I respect a man’s work ethic, not how much he makes. I’ve worked many $4.00/hour jobs. I’ve scrubbed toilets, swept floors, and done just about every kind of shit job known to humankind. We all do what we have to do. It doesn’t make us any less a man or woman.
You know, Dave, one thing you have going for you about being an ex-felon is that you probably understand the mindset of teenagers who commit crimes. You could maybe volunteer to talk to them and tell them about your experience in prison, and maybe you could help them turn their lives around. You could make your past experience work for you instead of against you. You could turn this disappointment into something positive again. You are fortunate to have a free basement to live in and the time to reflect. Why not use your free time to help others who are where you used to be?
You have no idea how many times I’ve been down and out. When I was in my early 30’s, I was so poor at one point that I was on food stamps and living in my car. I became dependent on one man after another, and drama ensued. I’m not ashamed to admit that I did something very unconventional to get out of poverty. I became an on-call exotic dancer for a period of a few years. This is how I got on my feet financially. Yes, I was a stripper for a few years in my 30’s. Within a short time, I gained my financial independence. My whole life, I’ve had to think outside the box to support myself. I’m very proud of who I am and what I have accomplished. You can figure out a way to use this situation to to your advantage. And you can do it without a woman. I am amazed at the ability of the human spirit to reinvent itself. You only get one life, Dave. Choose to do something great with it. You are still young. Choose that you will be happy. This is the only way to let go of the resentment and disappointment – to be determined to do whatever it takes to be happy. You cannot be happy and resentful at the same time. So be angry. Rage at the heavens. Get it out of your system. Then let it go because it will not serve your greater purpose. Learn from your mistakes.
I noticed the problems you had with her started when you moved in together and when you started taking care of her. So learn from this!!! Next time, don’t be a rescuer. If you rescue a woman who doesn’t yet know who she is, she will eventually resent you for doing it and may struggle against you while trying to gain her independence. When I was a stripper, I met many guys like this. They were kind, sweet and nice, and they wanted to “rescue” a stripper. They tried to rescue me! I told them in the most compassionate way I could that these women didn’t want to be rescued – that they would take advantage of the guy because they were in it for the money. They may lie and say all kinds of things, pretending they love the guy. But really they just were using him. Hell *I* was in it for the money. What kind of woman would choose a profession like this but for the money? Don’t be that nice-guy rescuer. And don’t be the one who needs to be rescued. This is the crux of your problem – that you believe you need someone to believe in you in order for you to feel happy, whole and complete. This is NOT TRUE. Believe in yourself, Dave!!!
You’ll see for yourself some day hopefully. You can have a great life in spite of your past or even because of it. It is part of who you are, and what you make of it will determine who you become in life.
star,
Not sure why she would think I rescued her, when I moved in and went to work she was still making more than me, we didn’t have many bills at the time, we both had paid off cars and she lived on some old womans rich property that had 2 houses for free for taking care of her sick husband that had polio. I don’t know maybe she does think I in some way settled her down cause her jobs and addresses before me were erratic, she never stayed anywhere longer than a year and didn’t have a job longer than 6 months. Its quite odd, I found on my email just now a long letter exchange between her and her mother in 2008, and if what she said is true, her mother really fouled her up, but I also noticed that many things she claimied her mother did, she was doing to me, remember I said I fealt like nothing I did was good enough for her? She said the same thing to her mother. She reminded her mother of all the pushing/shouting/hitting matches her and her current husband had while she was a child and how her mom would pack her in the car but never make it out the driveway.
I guess it doesn’t matter, cause nothing I do will change her, and she said she wont change, I really do feel sorry for her, and my kids, but nothing can be done if she does not want it.
Sounds like you have had it rougher than me id say,,ive never lived in my car , and im not beyond doing crap jobs “literally” I worked for 2 companies cleaning dog poop out of peoples yards while living with her, that is where I got the idea for our business, someone else suggested to her that we turn it “green” and recycle the waste. I literally star would go to this compost farm with large plastic binns full of shit , put on gloves and manually remove some of it with my hands to put in our in vessel composter until the bin was light enough for me to lift chest high to dump, it was gross as hell, but I never went home complaining like a little kid.
Hopefully I win this court hearing, I think that will boost my self confidence and help me to realize this is not my fault, and I think I may be able to start moving forward after this. I am going in there as prepared as possible, and I don’t think she is going to expect all the info I have, she will probly have a lawyer and that’s fine, I don’t need one just to question her and show a judge some emails. Wish me luck, say a prayer or whatever yall do, cause I really need to win this for myself as well so it doesn’t impede seeing/speaking to my kids.
BTW I don’t look down at strippers for doing it to make money to go through college or because they have no choice, I just hate going to those places and paying to get all worked up for nothing, hahaha 😛 Besides, I used to be a burglar, I don’t have much right to turn my nose up at you for legally making money.
I know I don’t “need” a woman to save me, but I want one in my life, I don’t want to be alone and miserable all my life with nobody to share it with, its human nature for us to want a mate/partner, but I also know now is not the time. And as much as I don’t want to admit it, I still love this woman, and I cant love another if I still feel that way about her its not fair to them.
Thanks for your replies they are very helpful.
Hi Truelove,
Reading your experience made me recall the same details I experienced in the hands of a sociopath. Mine was a male. Age doesn’t matter…A user is a user….We call them users….that is the slang for a sociopath in my opinion.
I had one user for 5 years. Took money, heart, soul, and hurt those around me as well. Selfish creatures…..
You will survive and one fine day, you will not love her anymore. You only love what you thought she was and what it could have been. All those “sweet” things she did was part of the act/or a sick flip flop for a very twisted person. and who wants to deal with that? You can’t help this person. I tried. I got that look of “glee” and the smirk…we all did.
Mine would trick me and was cheating the whole time. The more you do NO CONTACT the more you will wrap your brain and heart around the facade and the heartless motives that had you jumping.
After the NC, you will realize how as I like to put it :”She was never yours to love”…..she never gave you her heart….she never loved you as she doesn’t and will never know how to love in the truest sense of the word….and will always be looking for someone else to have sex with…in fact, the eye opener for me was that the whole time he was with me, he was constantly looking for women to have sex with as well as having that sex, sex sites, sex clubs, sex this and sex that was always on his mind. I realized that when he did certain strange things they were all about sex. Ex: when we were at the condo pool, he would go talk to the male lifeguard and later the lifeguard would tell me he talked about the sex clubs at the different vacation spots…many family oriented places where a guy can find some action….
One last kicker: When on a date for lunch, although I didn’t see any signs from him, as we left the restaurant he said as he looked into space, ” I could have had her” referring to our waitress…
You will have many flashbacks to such situations as you keep in NC. and when and if you flashback to the “good things” or to the sexual attraction, just realize it wasn’t special for you and her, it was what she did with everyone pal….
You will make it. I did…so many here at LF have made it…made it to where?…..To freedom from pain and regret….and to a new you….happy again….healed….ready to move on with your life…
I have a vision: A happy, centered, wise and loving man moving ahead in his life…a wonderful life….with healthy relationships…
Vision,
I have still not contacted the girl but I unblocked her # from my phone. I miss the idealization phase…wait a minute, what did i just say? My emotions lately have been getting to me lately. Just the comfort, intimacy etc. even though it was a facade, I miss it!! I am just sharing with you and perhaps others who remember what it was like with no contact the first three months. I am at NC of 2 months and not seeing face to face for 3 months. Man I miss this evil woman!! Why???? Its a rhetorical question but I could be with someone else if I really put my mind to it but I am not the relationship jumper like many are. I guess the ones who are afraid to be alone by themselves for fear of getting to know themselves. What do I know though, I am a person who is missing the very poison that brought me to this low point in my life emotionally etc. I am not even sure what else to say but I want to say, “I have unblocked you from my phone since I think it is safe now.” Wow as I write this out I see myself setting myself up! I have read that no matter what I do or try, I will lose with a sociopath because not having a conscience/empathy gives her the advantage of doing anything and not even question her motives etc. I on the other hand, would feel bad about lying to anyone except if it was the lesser of the two evils. Meaning I would lie to save a persons life etc. Please give me feedback from your own personal experience. I have read enough books and articles and really don’t need more information just your experience. Thank you all in advance and hope you are all doing well.
William
oh truelove: So you are lonely? That is the greatest gift you can give yourself because tonight you will go to sleep and when you awake you will be a better person. One day at a time.
The evenings are the worst by far but it’s a small window. Watch a funny TV show and go to sleep. Force yourself to be by yourself and be proud. I know you want her to contact you and since you have opened the door, In your mind, if she does not, you will contact her. Please don’t do that as it will take you back to SQ 1.
Ok, not an idiot
Update. A mutual friend of ours died in the apartment below mine. This happened a day after I removed the block from my phone. I called her to let her know he died and then texted. She wouldn’t have found out except a day or two later. She knew him longer than I did so I thought I should contact her. She didn’t reply until the afternoon and asked what i wanted from her. I said to let you know James died. She told a mutual friend to tell me to call her. I called and went to vm. I called an hour later and wet to vm again. I left a message again both times. That was yesterday. She finally replied and said, so you apparently want something from me? I was initially shocked by the icy cold replies and the continued game playing even after I was just telling her about a friend dying. Also I needed to get a # from her so that I could get a hold of his family to find out about arrangements. She never replied…then I was reminded that not even in death, can a sociopath care about you or even another friend for that matter. Thank the heavens I didn’t call to say i wanted to see her. Anyway today I miss the physical part of it all and a small piece of her off the wall humor but I know better. I can say woulda, coulda shoulda but I look at it and realize I cannot allow myself to care AT ALL!! Even to just let her know someone she cares about just died! The entire time I dated her, I was punished every time I showed that I cared about her. I think thats where the difficulty lies in recovery. Usually when someone knows you care about them they either reciprocate or still show some sort of caring at some level depending upon how they like you. With this girl, WOW ICY COLD! I didn’t even have to hear her voice this time. The text that she relied was cold enough. She even told me to call her and then still played childish socio games with me. I feel ok just am blown away at how true it is that the NO CONTACT is the only way unless you have children. Yes I still feel lonely, yes I miss the intimacy. NO I do not miss the lies, manipulation, deception, endangering my health, etc. etc. all the things you have all dealt with. Tell me what you think?
Weakness has a cloak right? There was your excuse just to see if maybe you had been wrong about her all this time. Maybe it was you. Maybe she will say or do something to show just how wrong you were about her. Thank goodness she didn’t play that game with you. I think they sometimes take the path of least resistance. I understand lonely and feel it every day also but don’t be one of those people who needs someone just to fill the gap. Embrace the loneliness and your time will come. I often get asked if I have a a BF and hear comments like “what someone like u doing without a boyfriend”. It makes me sick. Our society has drilled into our heads that we are not worthy if we don’t have a partner. I say whats wrong with you who chooses someone just to have someone. No wonder the divorce rate is so high. Anyone can go find someone. It takes a special person to wait for the right one. I didn’t the first time and I will never make that mistake again no matter how long I have to wait.
aintgonnatakeitnomore
You are right on! You do understand me to an extent. I guess my weakness was cloaked since I knew who I was dealing with and I wanted to find a way to prove myself wrong or simply want to hook up! Wow playing with fire here since i will never win, I have a conscience and cannot hurt her emotionally and not feel bad. She can hurt me and actually feel good about it! Thanks for replying.:)
You are also right about me being comfortable alone before I will be ready to share time with another again.
aintgonnatakeitnomore
I also realized just now that i wanted her to say things to get me back while I know who she is. I think she realizes that she cannot dupe me now without my permission since my eyes have been opened. Before I was unaware of what kind of person i was dealing with and couldn’t image her wanting to purposely hurt me emotionally. I just called myself on my own sheet with your help. Thank you!
🙂 This doesn’t apply to only people who have loved a SPath. Breakups are hard mostly because our ego’s are fragile. Kind of makes us feel bad about ourselves no matter who made the break. I think most people want to know they are still desired even by a sane person. Please dont take this the wrong way but your actions were covered in a caring cloak and your weakness was obvious to her. I know it’s not easy but you have to stop. My guess is in a few days she may reach out to you. After all, you opened the door and she will make sure you know it. Block her again. At least for another week or two. Don’t let her take any more of your dignity or masculinity. I’m pretty sure you deserve better than that. Just ask your mother. 🙂
ok not an idiot
I don’t feel bad about myself. Actually I feel good that I cut the relationship before the discard stage. How can you be so sure that she saw my weakness? I think it was because she doesn’t feel comfortable because the gig is up and it will be too much trouble to continue duping me. Irregardless, I have no business contacting her for any reason whatsoever. I think when I contacted her, she expected me to want to see her etc. and I didn’t say that and actually didn’t really want to see her. Last time she wanted to see me, I blew her off for obvious reasons of course. I think she sees that I am a person who is capable of caring because a coupe months ago she expected me to forgive and start over on a clean slate. I ought to be focusing on myself right now instead of jiber jabbering about a dark soul and would make mine dark by association.
You ought to not state things as a definite as you are not completely sure. There is a possibility that you are right but just a possibility. Someone said about path of least resistance and that sociopaths are lazy people. She probably sees more potential and easier prey instead of one who sees behind her mask or sees the monster within. So why would I want to associate with a monster in the first place? I don’t feel bad about anything and my ego, well I guess I am still upset that I allowed it to continue when it should have ended months before it did. But again I took control of the situation, and discarded her in the long run. Thank you for your input though as it helped me possibly see a side of it that I didn’t see before. She only wants to win and have control. Likely you are right that she will contact me within a week; on her terms of course; and want to come over on her terms and time. Al about power, control and simply winning! Maybe I am bored and kind of miss the drama in an unhealthy way. It only gets worse as she would just blow me off once she sees that I want to see her for any reason. I am not contacting her and no need to block her as I see the monster inside clearer than the pretty face outside.
Im sorry, I don’t want to make things worse. You will get through this and you should talk about it like are. I would hate to think i have taken away your safe place. Please accept my apologies.
Ok, not an idiot
No worries:) I wasn’t offended and I appreciate your input as you challenge me and help clarify things for me. No need to apologize. By talking about all this, it is helping me see that this dark soul is evil and to overcome it I need to forgive and move on. Thats my ego holding on to being upset about her cheating on me/duping me for several months and getting away with it. But do they actually get away with anything in the long run? Perhaps she doesn’t know how to respond as I have damaged her ego; not her emotionally as that is an impossibility. I don’t know maybe I just want to get laid by a dangerous sexually overcharged conscious less monster. What does that say about me? Well not anything good. perhaps there is a part of me that wants to hurt her ego further until she can barely begin to understand the emotional damage she has done to people in the past. I want to put her in her place and reduce her ego a couple notches so that she won’t think it so easy and fun to dupe her future targets. There ought to be a class to learn how to handle these monsters instead of just running to the hills.
When you talk about forgiving I should think you are talking about yourself. I don’t know that it will take that much to forgive her, it’s your judgement you will beat yourself up about. I know I did. Your wounded and that makes it even worse because “I should be strong enough to move on”. Again, these were the things I thought.
I think they know they are empty and I think life on this earth is very hard for them. Maybe later in life she will settle in when her hormones settle down, maybe around 50 or so. She will never be like us though, I assume.
Wanting to have good sex is normal I hope. The trouble is as we age there are less people of quality to choose from so we wait and settle for nothing less than great sex among other things, but never compermising on that. I think you should give youself a ton of credit as you figured it out after only 7 months. Most of us took years and many bore children. You are smart so don’t sell yourself short. From what I read, 1 in 25 people are SPath’s. How many people have you come across in your 40 years and to think you only subcumb to one. That’s not easy.
Ok, Not an Idiot wrote:
This doesn’t apply to only people who have loved a SPath. Breakups are hard mostly because our ego’s are fragile. Kind of makes us feel bad about ourselves no matter who made the break. I think most people want to know they are still desired even by a sane person. Please dont take this the wrong way but your actions were covered in a caring cloak and your weakness was obvious to her. I know it’s not easy but you have to stop. My guess is in a few days she may reach out to you. After all, you opened the door and she will make sure you know it. Block her again. At least for another week or two. Don’t let her take any more of your dignity or masculinity. I’m pretty sure you deserve better than that. Just ask your mother.
You were right! She called me 3 days later and left a message. She had no real reason to but like you siad to remind me that I opened the door to her and she was willing to play the game again. I didn’t answer the phone nor did I call back. This was a week and a half ago. Wow amazing, she even talked sweet and cute but no go. Actually hearing her voice was annoying and disgusted me. Voice of an angel as sweet as butter, yet all but a tool to a callous/dark soul, to cause one to let their guard down and “feel” all is well. No, all will never be well with a dark soul in tow. I recently had to end a friendship with a person we both know as I could see he was being manipulated by her to try to continue to upset me. All ties cut/severed, the cancer cut, removed and I don’t care if I lose a good part of me doing so. it was the good part of me that was likely capitalized and preyed upon by the monster who once was beside me.
Ok,
I wanted to thank you for challenging me and helping me see things I didn’t want to but needed to.
It’s nice to hear when I’m right. 🙂 Although it would be more helpful if I were right about picking my power ball numbers. lol I don’t think you will lose the best part of you by letting go of the friendship. If anything you will find the better part of you. I don’t think people take seriously how important it is to manage your relationships in line with a happy healthy life.
I consider myself to be a relatively intelligent person yet looking back it amazes me the people I have let into my life in the past. I just ended a friendship w someone who was so very good at hiding who they were. Looking back she spent most of her time trashing her crazy ex and now I think it was a distraction so no one saw who she really was. I always thought it was her ex who was the abuser but now that she is out of my life (because she assaulted me by throwing not one but 2 beer bottles at me for who knows what, Patriots lost, boy she was cheating on her BF with was talking to another girl, I’m prettier, she’s insecure, IDK? Any or all but I think her evil goes deeper than I care to look) Now I see things a little different. I thought I knew the signs of a SP and even if she isn’t, her personality is flawed and i should have listened to the signs off the bat because they were there looking….back. Rearview mirror is so much clearer isn’t it. This was just 2 months ago and there has not been one day that I miss her in my life. Reality is, I didn’t really like her anyway. She was always late even when I would say please dont tell me you are on your way until you are driving in your car. She one upped every single thing. I resigned myself to the idea that I would never meet a man if I was with her because she dominates every situation even while all around her are watching like “what’s wrong with her”. If someone started talking to me she would insist on leaving and turned mean. It was crazy really but I was OK with it because a bar isnt where I want to meet any love interest. She treats her kids like pawns since her divorce. I remember she would always say “I have them, he has them”, it was so cold like possession of an object.. At one point I said “you mean your kids are with you” Went right over her head. Anyway, I am talking way too much but my point again, I should have known right away but maybe i chalk it up to people coming into and go out of your life for a reason. Glad I cut it off swiftly so that’s growth and I am a better person.
I am sick today fever, achy, sore throat, headache–and i miss being held and comforted while i am sick, so i miss him or at least being held by him. But its not so strong and not so bad. the price i had to pay was AWFUL. i left Nov 9th so its still soon enough to think of him holding me. but life goes on. i have spent most of my life uncomforted so this is nothing new to me, its just that in the last few yrs, he wud have held me. so i got used to it. i will get un-used to it again. Life goes on.
aintgonnatakeitnomore
Thank you for replying:)
Life goes on yes. I had contacted her the other day for a good reason but that even turned out to be a mistake! A mutual friend died yesterday and I called to tell her. I got an icy cold response and realized I cannot even allow a single ounce of care for this person. She played mind games even when I was trying to just tell her a friend died! So much so that if she gets into a car crash and is dying in the hospital, I cannot afford to see her. She would see this as a sign of weakness rather than be happy to see that I care. Its the continual punishment for caring for her that i realize where the real betrayal lies. Its not the act of her cheating, lying etc. Its that I would not have been hurt unless I cared in the first place. How can someone be with another person; soaking in bath tub, sleeping and cuddling 5 nights a week, ec etc.?
There were special moments but she saw them as opportunities to ensure her hook was still deep inside me. WOW CRAZY!
true love…u just want to get laid, period lol. its human nature. dont feel bad. once u get over the shock of the grief, u start to feel human again, and bam, there it is. just dont do something stupid because of a human need.
i have no answers as to WHAT to do about it however :0
even when i was missing idk what, a few days ago, i wasnt missing HIM…u know what? i was missing SOMEone. in my life, thinking about me, caring if i came home, smiling at me in the morning, or txtg first thing.
this is human nature too. we thot we’d found it BUT We Hadn’t.
i have talked to scores of men in the last month or so. met like 5 i think. still talking, still looking lol they want to jump in the sack or theyre disabled or mental or lazy. i walk away.
i am real real good at walking now 🙂 hell, after walking away from the NPD, i can lose any prospect fast and wake up happy!
truelove,
I seen mine yesterday in court, she looked very good, she made eye contact and it didn’t look like anger or revenge, it almost looked like she fealt confused and guilty but that’s probly just a ploy incase she ever wants to real me in again.
She did many things to me unbecoming of a relationship, however I feel your pain, I miss her and my kids terribly, I miss her smell, waking up next to her, cooking for her, watching our fav shows together and yes of course the sex too. I find myself at times almost wishing she would call and tell me sorry and beg me back, but im scared if she did that I may not be strong enough to say no just yet as I just hit month 3.
At night I miss her most while in bed staring at the walls, so I try to remember all the messed up shit she did and said instead of any happy moments, it seems to help a bit. Stay strong, don’t call, if she calls either don’t answer or make it quick and let her know you have moved on and hang up. I guess just focus on getting over this so your not carrying this baggage when you meet another woman, as it wouldn’t be fair to her, plus shes liable to leave you if she thinks your still a mess.
Dave
Thanks for your reply. Yea I found the final piece of hair from her last week. She had long blonde hair and it shed often or more than usual for people. I later researched it and found that high testosterone levels and certain drugs can cause that. Anyway yea focusing on the reality of what the “relationship” was based on; lies and deception; instead of the honeymoon part of it. The moments where it seemed like she truly cared. I have a memory that came back today of soaking in the tub with her and she told me all kinds of encouraging things that really seemed like she did truly love me. She was on a benzo drug at the time and this moment lasted only 5 minutes. Most of the time she didn’t say that she didn’t care but showed it ever so clearly. I read someone that said, “When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM!” How true this is because actions cannot lie while lips lie continuously.
The baggage I still have some I believe but slowly getting better. I think if I were to start dating, it would just turn into another meaningless sexual relationship. Actually I am vulnerable to be picked up by another sociopath. I know this for a fact because I am currently in the mindset that a social predator senses. Wow creepy world or creepy certain people in the world. I have heard that they can sense a potential target within 5 to 10 minutes of talking with someone. Is that true or only with certain ones?
Hmm truelove,
The testosterone thing and the hair, I find that disturbing as mine had higher levels of the hormone than she should for a woman and I noticed when she would shower and wash her hair there would be large clumps of hair she would leave on top of the rim of the bathtub, as well I would constantly pull out long strands of black hair from my clothes/coats from her.
Vision
Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom with me. You really can tell when another person relates to what you are going through. Yea it is tough. I woke up again this morning with obsessive thoughts about things she did and said. This has been happening the past couple months but not as intense as the day before so it is getting better. The way it made me feel when it happened and then me reliving it in greater detail as the NC effect has been kicking in is more traumatic than when it was happening! I guess because I was still in a fog not knowing sadistic emotional terrorists even existed in the first place. Also I was in shock and denial about what was happening!
I learned that the vampire character in Bram Stokers dracula was taken by a womanizing fiend whom the author knew. I haven’t verified that but I can see why people would call sps emotional vampires.
I still can’t believe I miss this person! But you said it so well that I miss the person that never existed except in my hopes and dreams that were created by this spath. Actually they came from me because I understand now that she mirrored me so that I would think she was the one I was looking for!! Wow every time I think about this it just blows me away. She was evil towards me no doubt about it. I believe true evil is the one that strikes under sheeps clothing. This girl Jess facilitated a support group where there were all men! Talk about getting the center of attention and picking grooming potential emotional pinatas!
You are right about her likely having sex with all her guy friends and me just another bloke in the mix! She has probably played them as she cycles through them. When I found out about her hooking up for sex on craiglist, her name on the email or contact was, “Burrito Girl.” When I found out about this I remember us eating burritos at el diablo. Things were going well and then she said something like, “You know I am a burrito girl, I got a burrito for every day of the week. I knew she was talking about sex but I just figured she was being a smart arse. Again I felt a pain in my chest and knew she was hurting me or flaunting it in an indirect way. Just the thought of her hooking up with 2 guys at the same time or 2 girls and a guy while she sleeps in my bed intimately at least 4 times a week!! I wanted to throw up in her face when I found out. Some other red flags early on. She had a friend who temporarily did escort service and Jess smiled about it like it was something taboo and sexy. Another time she said she is like a guy but with breasts. And again I joked with her and said she was a stud and she said, “Thank you with a big grin.” When I asked her who she would want to be and she told me Stevie Nicks. I asked her why and she said, “Because she is famous and slept with all the rock stars.” Again it was a red falg but I overlooked it. As NC continues these memories continue to pop in my head and I feel hurt. All I wanted was love, respect, loyalty, companionship, honesty. Guess thats why I am writing on Lovefraud:)
Thank you for the vision you have of me:)
I agree but I need some serious counseling and have been looking but nothing yet. I am 43 and have been getting negative thoughts like, “you are too old, times a wasting etc.” I know they are lies. In fact I felt that way when I was 30! I need to fill my mind with good things, positive things. I need to see myself the way God sees me.
Take care,
William
OK Truelove, im stuck on your last comment as it may be the one perspective that if changed will change everything for you. I am 44 years old and I wouldn’t go back for anything. Life gets better, I get better every single day. Wiser, smarter, and i think better looking. Being comfortable in your skin is not for the youth and is the greatest self-gift life has to offer. It’s a mind set. Find all the wonderful things about life. Identify all of the good things you do for yourself and others on a daily basis and accept all of the wonderful things that happen every single day, don’t focus on the negative. You are not getting older….you are getting better. Well that is if you open yourself up to learning and understanding. I was in therapy for 8 years mostly because I wanted to be. My therapist said I was fine and didn’t need to come but I had so much I wanted to learn about myself. I left my marriage of 18 years not because he was a bad man, he wasn’t the SP. He is a good man but come to find out he has been spending the last 18 years trying to change me and as he put is “I’ll never be able to fix you” meaning I will never be the person he wishes he was. Ya think? So after 8 years of learning how to cope and beating myself up trying to figure out how this is my fault, I left because I knew nothing would ever change and when I did, because of therapy, I was well prepared. My therapist told me so long as you stay out of debt and don’t get addicted you will have a wonderful life and that once I stepped off the cliff I will not fall, I will sore and she was very right. Point is, therapy works. If you can do, do it.