By | March 24, 2010 463 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Spiritual encouragement for survivors

Editor’s note: Lovefraud honors all religious and spiritual beliefs. However, we’ve heard of many sociopaths who twist the teachings of the Bible in order to keep victims from escaping exploitation.

A reader sent the following letter in order to encourage those who are in this situation—knowing they are being abused, but being told that Scripture says they should put up with it. The reader has no affiliation with the organizations posting the material; she just thought the links were helpful.

For those individuals who are of the Christian faith (and / or of any faith) and who have, also unfortunately found themselves ”¨exposed to either sociopaths / the supporters-of-sociopaths ”¨(within their very own family or spiritual setting or, as is very ”¨often the case, both) the following links may be of some ”¨help in discovering and receiving Biblical “support” in ”¨being able to acknowledge the God-given FACT that ”¨”tolerating a sociopath’s abuse” is very simply ”¦

1) NOT part of a Christians’ “bearing one’s cross”;

2) NOT something that a Christian MUST simply ”¨”just forgive and forget” in order to have God ”¨also “forgive and forget” their own wrongs;

3) NOT merely a part of a Christians’ spiritual ”¨OBLIGATION to “turn their other cheek” (70 x 7)

4) NOT a part of “loving or ‘blessing’ one’s enemies”;

5) NOT something that in anyway “glorifies” or “honors” God, ”¨nor is it in anyway a type of “obedience” to the commandments ”¨left by God to all of mankind, nor does it follow along the ”¨lines of the “will” that God has planned for one’s life.

God has a GOOD will and plan for everyone’s life and God both can and will help people to escape, overcome, heal and even, somehow, also ”¨be able to learn from the abusive experiences that you have survived.

GOD HAS THE POWER AND THE WILL to, somehow or another, use ”¨these past experiences to “transform” a person (despite all the abuse) ”¨into becoming the very best person that they can become (to themselves”¨ and to others) and can actually somehow miraculously also use these ”¨experiences to work out all together for the GOOD within their own ”¨life (Romans 8:28; Jeremiah29:11; 3 John 1:2) and in the lives of others.

Should I offer forgiveness without repentance?

Should forgiveness be unconditional?

No forgiveness for the unrepentant

Selective Amnesia: “I have no idea what I did wrong!”

Forgiveness—does it matter if the abuser is a born-again Christian?

The Christian abuser—twisting God’s word to justify abuse

How can I forgive?

What about “Love your enemies?”

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I turned to bible study during my marriage as a source of comfort. My abuser loved to point to any bible verse describing how as a Christian wife, I must submit to my husband. In other words, accept whatever he did to me. And I did until the truth was known. His verbal, emotional and later physical abuse were all a part of his double life. When the infidelities were revealed , then everything was understood.

As a Christian, I believe God is sovereign. Sometimes I dont act like it, trying to “fix” everything myself. It is freeing to know that He is in control and will take care of this mess if I follow His direction. That means love your enemies but dont enable them.

God was in my life throughout my marriage and then divorce… keeping me focused on the children, holding my anger and my composure during turmoil. Because of that, I do have a reputation for being level headed and stable; something my ex wants to now destroy.

It was amazing that most of the information gained during the divorce was not obtained by hired PI’s. Instead a “chance” envelope was delivered to the wrong address or a conversation was “accidently” left on voice mail.

I dont believe in chance or accidents so I attribute this to a loving and protective God who wanted me to know truth. Even when my brainwashed mind refused to see the confusion and turmoil that filled our home, God was patient and kept putting FACTS before me. I escaped; He delivered me. I am so thankful.

If I can help just one person going through a similar situation, my experience was not wasted. Romans says “we are more than conquerors” and we are. My faith literally kept me sane and gave me strength. In my weakness, He was strong. I now look back and dont know how I got the children to school, fed them and kept going. I didnt…HE did.

This same faith defines my children. They do know that all earthly fathers (and mothers) are imperfect. They know that they have a PERFECT heavenly father and HE loves them..warts and all. They see that God allowed this to happen and are thankful NOT to be deluded like their Dad. What man meant for evil, God meant for good…The truth of I John chap 1-3 is our presciption for confusion.

My ex is a poor, lost, stumbling soul who cannot find happiness. I pity him, but I will not allow him to damage our children with his misguided and toxic life. So, I pray for him because I do love him as a child of God… and that is his only hope. But I have no contact; I flee from evil because that is what controls him now. Grace is a gift, we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. God will take care of that.

Ox Drover

I haven’t yet read all the above links, but I can say for SURE that a twisted form of “christianity” WAS USED to “keep me in line” for most of my life by my egg donor and others.

It was only when I realized, finally, due to the mentoring of a wonderful and caring minister that I started to “see the light” that the “picture” painted of their “god” was truly NOT the real picture painted of God in the Bible.

Each of those topics on the links above was addressed in a way that I could SEE for myself in the scriptures that the TWISTED version of this “angry diety” that had been used to keep me in line was NOT what the Bible actually said. That this twisted and angry god was NOT the “real” God, who is a loving heavenly FATHER to me, no a vengeful diety to keep me in line with the psychopath’s agendas.

Thank you for posting this Donna. It IS I think a common tactic of “religious” psychopaths and abusers to JUSTIFY their abuse to the victims and to the community at large, and is a great way to “smear” a victim by damning them as “ungodly” and “heritics” and to paiint the abuser as “kindly and caring” and “oh, so pious.”


Dear Ox,
I tried so hard as a Christian to salvage the marriage. He showed no real “fruit” of repentence, remorse or restoration. This is why I had to finally divorce.

When I recently enforced some “no contact” boundaries due to harrassment, he went on a tirade yelling ” you call yourself a Christian, look what your God did for you, everything is mine” etc..

Such pride and arrogance. No submission to authority… the court’s, the world’s , or God’s. Interesting that the secret of wisdom is the fear of God..isnt that what Proverbs says??

Ox Drover

Dear Flowerpower,

Yes, I agree, they have no wisdom, only greed and rage!

MY egg donor is so much like the Pharisees in the Temple, that Jesus said were like “whited tombs” good looking on the outside but filled with rotteness inside. The egg donor makes great effort to appear pious and sweet and forgiving, but behind that mask of her fake “christianity” she holds grudges and is filled with a desire for vengence and anger.

I started reading the Bible with new eyes and not looking at it as something I had even read before, but re-read as something that was NEW, and I started to see messages for living in stories I had read 100 times before…like for example, the story of Joseph. Joseph had been a smart-alec kid who flaunted his favored status to his brothers, but they were jealous and decided to kill him, but ended up selling him into slavery. Long before they showed up in Egypt where he was now second only to the king, Joseph had forgiven them.

But when they came, he did not know them any longer, it had been 20+ years since he had seen them, though he no longer hated them or harbored ill will toward them, HE DID NOT TRUST THEM,, so he TESTED them to see what kind of men they had become in those 20+ years.

Therefore I learned that FORGIVENESS does NOT equal “pretending it never happened” and restoring TRUST to the person, even if they said they were “sorry.” It is OK to test someone to see what their actions are before restoring trust.

I learned that forgiving someone is more equal to “getting the bitterness out of MY heart” but doesn’t mean I have to TRUST that person until they EARN my trust.

That right there was a biggie for me. Forgiving someone is all about making ME better, not pretending it didn’t happen and laying myself open to more abuse.

I love it that the very men who will use the scriptures about the wife being submissive to the husbands never seem to see or remember the same scripture that says “Husbands love your wives even as your own self” If a husband loves you as he loves himself he will not TREAT YOU BADLY.

I also learned that sometimes challenges are for our learning, and that when we are presented with a challenge it is so that WE can learn from it and become better, and more content people. I also remember the scripture that says “ALL Things work together for GOOD to those that love the Lord.” If you can TRUST that promise as true, you can look at this situation to see that there is GOOD going to come out of this if we keep our faith.

Well, maybe your X got more money out of this divorce than you did, maybe he “won” that, but we also know that the love of money is the root of all evil. He has his “reward” but at the time time, his “reward” is quite valueless in the greater scheme of things. Money does not buy peace, happiness or anything else of any great value.

This whole thing has made my faith STRONGER not weaker, and my belief in God’s goodness much stronger. I, like you, tried to fix my own problems (actually I was causing them) and didn’t depend on God to take care of things, so I have learned that I work like it all depended on ME, but I also pray like it all depends on God (which it does) and TRUST that all things WILL work out for GOOD if I love God and trust him.

Back when I was actually trying to help my P-son get a parole, I never prayed that he “would get a parole” I only prayed that God, who knew his heart, “would do what was BEST all around, and that I would trust that the result (parole or no parole) would be what was BEST and RIGHT”

Of course back then in January of 2007, he did NOT get a parole. By then his Trojan Horse psychopath, his ex cell mate was already installed in my egg donor’s house, going to church with her and being “reborn” etc. while he was having an affair with my DIL who lived next door to my egg donor, and was also “joining the church”—-when I found out what was going on a few months later, that the TH-P was an ex cell mate of my P sons and that he had 3 sex convictions with 3 separate CHILDREN, no one believed it except our local sheriff.

After the arrerst of the TH-P and my DIL for trying to kill my son C, her husband, I said to my egg donor, I TOLD YOU THE TRUTH back then, and of course she hadn’t believed me, accused me of forging the documents of proof on my computer and she said “well why didn’t you get the sheriff to talk to me, I would have believed HIM?” Blaming it on me that she didn’t believe me.

When SHE was caught lying to me, her response to that was “well, don’t tell me you’ve never lied to ME!” My answer was “Yep, ma, I did lie to you, when I was 15 years old, 45 years AGO!

When she was alone because the two Ps were in jail, and my son C, her grandson had moved out of state in utter fear, and I was the only relative left to cater to her “needs”–she actually said to me, “Let’s just pretend none of this happened and start over.”

That I realized is the family MOTTO of “forgive and forget” and let them get close enough to stab you again. I don’t play that game any more and I realize that both Jesus and St. Paul gave instructions about how to handle a “brother” that sins against you. Go talk to them privately, if they will not listen, take a witness and go back and if that doesn’t make them see the error of their ways or repent, then take it before the church. If that doesn’t make them repent, then do not associate with them at all, not even to eat! Doesn’t that sound like NO CONTACT ? Sure does to me. And the purpose is stated that they may see the error of their ways and change them.

Well, with a psychopath they are NOT going to see the error of their ways because they have given themselves to EVIL and they do not WANT to change, their hearts are HARD.

Unfortunately, my egg donor has also convinced the small congregation of the church she attends that I am the abuser as evidenced by the fact that I will not associate with her. So, that being the case, they will not listen, I have disassociated myself with them as well.

Jesus said if you do right that people will persecute you, and I think that includes (and especially) the psychopaths as they will do their best to smear you to ruin your reputation and to get others to shun you and talk badly about you as well. So in the end, doing right isn’t generally going to win you any popularity contests.

I have also started to watch more who I associate with and try to get those people who are NOT honest and caring toward me out of my life. I can’t move to a desert island to be away from the world, but I can associate with and be friends with honest people and when people show me that they are dishonest by lying and other acts that SHOW me what their real character is, I get them out of my circle of trust. Doesn’t mean I go burn their houses down, or anything like that, I just disassociate myself from those people as much as I can.

My renewed and improved faith has helped me in this, but it is also a fight every day to be a better person, to be kinder to others and to myself, and to not be bitter. I’m no great example of faith to anyone, but I do the best I can to be honest with myself and others. (((Hugs)))) and Prayers


On forgiveness- my 2 cents worth- the “reason” God leaves biblical solutions regarding forgiveness- which is really only moving on, and striving to remove bitterness and hatred from your spirit(NOT excusing or accepting the behavior) is for this very reason:

Living without it is OPPRESSION – pain, & turmoil WHICH leads into anger, hate and depression.
If unchecked and allowed to grow leads to a spiritual death within ones self- self hatred, lack of self worth,and unhealthy preoccupation with being victimized. Sickness, and mental illness follows, and finally in the extreme form can lead to suicide.

ON not being able to mentally release the pain of oppression-
You cant fix the problem with the same mind that created the problem- TO fix the problem (say, in being oppressed), You MUST first FIX the mind. Choose to forgive yourself, and forgive God, for whatever blame the emotions try to deceive you with.
Then you are able to work toward removing others from the unhealthy fixation of the wrongs they have inflicted.
This will RELEASE the oppression from what the mind has created (from the debilitating memory/emotions of abuse.)
It was suggested to me- and I like this , to use “my story” as a clay pot to mold me into a better person, with true purpose in life.
One other thing, I’d like to mention-the bible not only warns against evil doers- but says in scriptures (Proverbs 4- Enter not into the path of evil men, avoid it, pass by it, turn away from it… Prov 6 in regards to evil men- calamity comes suddenly, he shall be broken without remedy.. In describing a fool- the bibles description is of a “self confident fool”- people thinking they dont need God and are full of their own pride, false self confidence, thinking they can do it by themselves. Only a fool says theres no God saith the Lord.

When will people stop thinking that Jesus is here to condemn the world,??? when EVERY goal of the bible is to give us life more abundantly. God is not at fault for the evil doers of this world. CONSEQUENCES of mans sin is the reason for destruction. OK, I am stepping down from my soap box- not trying to offend anyone.

Ox Drover

Dear Sabrina,

Thank you, and I agree with you that associating with or being close to “evil” does contaminate us. “Evil Companions corrupt good morals” I realized too that I had accepted things that were EVIL because I had been around them enough that they sort of “normalized”—-

I also spent a great deal of time reading the teachings of Jesus and learning more of the history of the Bible and the context within which it was written. The Pharisees were the “holy men” of their day, at least OUTWARDLY but though they went to great lengths to uphold the letter of the Law of Moses, they threw the spirit of that Law away. They would tithe of the tiny amounts of mint they grew, yet they would pull some “slick deaL” that would deprive a widow of her home, and they were WILLING to pay LIARS to make up a charge which would allow them to crucify Jesus because he was EXPOSING their lies and dealings to the masses. They had to shut up the WHISTLE-BLOWER at any cost!

They were the POLITICIANS of their day as well as the “religious leaders” so they had the DOUBLE WHAMMY OF EVIL, trying to appear holy while at the same time doing secret UN-holy things. Sort of reminds me of the priests sexually assualting children and it being covered up.

And this is not just anti-Catholic, yesterday in Little Rock, a coach and princlpal at a religious school had been molesting girls for over 10 years and the superintendent had been WARNED 10 years ago that this gjuy might be suspected of it, and HE DID NOT SAY A WORD TO THE AUTHORITIES, WHICH HE IS BY LAW TO REPORT EVEN SUSPICIONS. But he hid it because it would give a bad name to the school/church, so this guy kept on for 10 more years!

Cops cover up for cops who do illegal and immoral things, religious leaders cover up for “religious” perverts, physicians cover up for physicians who are bad, dangerous or violate the law, lawyers for lawyers and so on. I guess the world has always been that way and probably always will be.

All we can do is to start with OURSELVES and work toward making ourselves better people. Tell the truth and move away from people who do evil. We do not have to be abused and think it is our duty to facilitate that abuse, we just have to work toward not letting it embitter us that there IS EVIL IN THIS WORLD. Sometimes that is not easy to not become bitter and that is something I have to work toward daily. However, I know that being ANGRY is not a sin, Jesus said “be ye angry and sin not” and He was ANGRY at injustice. He also said “do not let the sun go down on your wrath” and I looked up the definition of wrath and it means a lot more than just “anger” it is vengeful, hateful, burning anger, the kind that eats at our souls. Letting go of that justified anger and not letting it become WRATH isn’t always easy, but it can be done! It must be done for OURSELVES and our peace.

Even if someone isn’t a beliver in the Diety, there are some great princliples in the Bible that point toward a more abundant life here on this earth. Great directions pointed toward having a peaceful and good life and quiet mind.

Proverbs is a great book for giving directions on how to behave for your benefit, what to do and what to avoid.


My faith has been affected, tremendously. After having a spath in your life, a person knows for a fact that there are wicked people in this world. What is still mind boggling to me is that there are people who don’t want to do what is right, that they will stab you in the back, having not a shred of remorse. Parents need to teach children about human nature, the fact that we are born with a sin nature. Some people will respond to God, wanting more of Him and His ways in their lives, and there are other people who don’t want to be influenced by Him. My heart is to do what is right in life. Spaths lack integrity – they are what you don’t want to be like in life.


Unfortunately the biggest price I paid for having a narcissist sociopath in my life was to entirely lose my faith. I looked Satan in the eye and despite all my prayers and believing in Bible’s promises for rewarding the “righteous” and punishing the “wicked”, he got away with everything he did and I was the one punished for it. Yes, I do know that our timeline is different from God’s timeline. He is talking about eternity and eternal life and we are talking about our own limited lifetime. Nevertheless, no father (including Father) should watch this happen or allow one of His children do such a thing to another one of His Children.
I am sorry I believe Satan has taken over and the “wicked” would always win over the “righteous”. I am done being nice.


Dear Marcia,
I am sorry for what you have experienced and I have been there..and yes I am also done being nice. God doesnt want us to “be nice”. He wants us to be wise, love Him and to understand there is evil. I am glad I learned that lesson…and to be able to teach my children.

God does allow things to happen. I dont understand this but I do know that we live in “fallen” world. As a Christian I believe He is the authority we will have to stand before when we die.But even more than that, I can look back on my situation and see God’s power in me and how He protected me. Sure, the “bad” one got away with the possessions, but I got my children and they are my treasure.

There were times when I questioned my faith. That was when I knew the “enemy” had won. Evil and evil-doers would like nothing better than to see us hopeless victims, without faith, power and completely defeated. Wickedness only “wins” when we renounce truth, God and the hope our faith offers.

That doesnt mean we cant question why or be angry and shake our fist at our situation. Please dont give up! God will never let you go! He IS faithful to those who love Him and will never give up on you.But yes, yell at God, get angry at Him, He can take it…

In my case, my “punishment” was not from God, but was a consequence of staying in an ungodly marriage. One that was not a model of HIS love at all. Of course, deep down I knew that but continued to put up with the disrepect and abuse… I was overcome by the evil and afraid. I didnt know that it grieved God to see me treated this way!!

Out of this marriage I was given two beautiful children.Nothing is more important to me now that to raise them to understand how much God loves them… it is the type of love I want them to have and know..unconditional love. I cant imagine going forward without that. It would be hopeless . Prayers and love your way..


When the discovery of my husband’s betrayal began, I wept for him and I ached to talk to HIM looking for that place of trust and security that he provided to me prior to his having been hauled off to jail suddenly without my prior knowledge that such and event was even possible- let alone likely!

Learning that he is a sociopath came hard because I was numbed by the realization of all that he had lied about and missing the sound of his voice and the gentle words he spoke to me.

It took time for that numbness to open up into a painful wound – the cut of a total betrayal. And to not only learn but act on the information that NO Contact is the only solution and that there will never be a resolution, apology or chance to hear a reasonable explanation and forgive. We will never be friends. He is just gone.

And he haunts my heart like a ghost sometimes because I loved him for some of the very reasons that made him so dangerous. He was always there. He rose to be my champion over and over again. He was taking over MY identity and until he was gone, I didn’t “get it”.

I think Ox and I discussed the idea that the story of Judas’s betrayal of Christ describes that the betrayers are known and that what is known of them is that the betrayal comes not from strangers, but from they closest.

The story of Christ’s suffering in the garden before he was apprehended is one I relate to because this man’s actions lead to me feeling that my whole core was ripped out of me by the bare hand of his lies.

My personal experience was that if I did not know who or what to love and could not find to give it to myself, I could give it to God in thanks that Christ took my suffering to the cross, took the appeal of any of us to heavan in exchange that we and any who persecute us after, be forgiven for the suffering we experienced.

For me, it has been an experience which reinvigorated my faith and renewed my jaded belief that there is a power to love that is much, much more than just men and women coming together.

Yes, there is evil in the world. NO thing may exist without its opposite. If there is good, there must be evil. I take away from the experience that I have benefitted from the learning, from this community and from the discovery of ways to take a real and better care of myself from a healing of the whole self, not just the recovery from this single relationship.

And, I have learned how to let him go in peace and with love because of it.

I found out that my expectations of love have been driven from a part of me that was both wounded and very young. In learning how to provide the comfort that voice has needed to become still all these years, I have discovered a dimension of love that is life changing.

I give thanks to God and the protection of the angels for this great gift.

I see the voice and face of Christ in all of those who have suffered and who extended their kindness to me when I have.

It me reminds me to Faith, hope and love. And the strongest of these, is love.



you have the uncanny ability to put my feelings into words…just reading your posts gives me strength and hope and a beginning to finding peace…thank you again. I am enjoying the walk too:)




This is my take on the subject..

Everything on earth is positive and negative…down to the electrons and protons.
You can’t have light without dark.
You can’t have up without down.
You can’t have good without EVIL.
I used to think that everyone was GOOD. Somewhere deep down, we are all good.
I used to think the Bible was a myth…about Satan.

Well, now I TOTALLY believe there is EVIL in the world. If there wasn’t …we would have WORLDPEACE!!!

So, I now teach my children that EVERYONE out there is GUILTY until proven innocent. NEVER trust anyone that you don’t know WELL…..

Thats the new me.

So, remember ….the closer you are to GOd…The better you are….the HARDER the devil tries to get you.

I KNOW there is Evil because I NEVER once in my life thought of suicide…only when I was younger…to get back at my parents…

Now,…with three beautiful girls..I didn’t want to live!!!

The devil wants you to destroy yourself and lose your FAITH and belief in GOD..


WIthout GOd…you are nothing.

Twice Betrayed

Just when I think LF is the best it can be…it outdoes itself! It is with great thankfulness that I look upon this post! I so hoped, one day, that I would see something like this blogged here, and now it has happened! How GREAT is our God!! And thank you, Donna!
My faith in God saw me thru all this. No matter how hard my P tried to destroy me, he could never totally do it. God protected and finally delivered me by providing a way of escape! To God be the glory!!

flowerpower, your posts are excellent, full of truth and wisdom!

bluejay: Please don’t forget who is running this world here..Satan is. God OVERRULES! There is evil and it prowls for those it can devour.
[ It is my belief P/S are given to evil.] God protects His own, but there is suffering and don’t buy into the fluff that if we are God’s children we will not suffer. In fact, scripture makes it plain we will suffer. It costs something to belong to God! We are in a WAR here, evil against good. Satan against God. When we become saved we are in the army now, Christian army. We are fighting! He promises if we are faithful He will give us rewards along with eternal life. He also promises to never leave nor forsake us. It’s been my experience God walks us THRU the fire not around it, for around it, we would not learn/trust or be FORCED to rely totally on Him. It’s just human nature[since the fall], and He must work with us the way we are. When Satan begins to get my focus on what I went thru or DON”T have, I get in God’s Word and remind myself of all the things I do have and how blessed I am in many, many ways. One day, God will allow Satan to come full force, for if He did not let Satan go all the way, Satan could say, “I could have won, if you had given me full rein.” God will allow Satan to have the full length of his rope/power and then God will put down all evil/Satan. “And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” Revelation 21:2-7.


Flower- I love what you said in your beautiful, truthful post to Marcia. I admire yours,Silver, to be happy, sorry if leaving others out-all you guys for sharing your spirit and beliefs out here. Oxy is another who I always count on to share a spiritual, Godly truth whenever she gets the opportunity- I love that!! I love to read your interesting comments so much!

Marcia, Bluejay- I understand where you are at, and possibly how you feel. It is a lonely place, but healing and restoration is there for you.
I “almost” was at the point of giving up on all of my beliefs, as my overwhelming disappointment engulfed me.
That small will that I had at the time to live, be whole, and seek to understand kept me going-BUT my flesh was kickin and screamin, making it difficult to believe God or his relevance in my life. I did pray for Him to help my unbelief.

Deep down, I began to know, thru the convictions in my heart, that God was the ONLY one who truly loved me whether I wanted to believe it or not Whether I understood it, liked it, or felt like it was fair or not. I told God I was angry, didnt think I would trust Him again. My arrogance, by His grace was tolerated until He could re build me, and my “pot of clay” began to be molded. But First that “pot” had to go thru some really UGLY remodeling. Alot of my”confident fool” mentality- thinking I could do this without God had to be cut away and replaced with a new game plan. Many times, just reading the bible would humble me, and give me such peace, I couldnt argue with that. I learned that I had to daily submerge myself with the good things of God-(encouragement, christian mentors,positive “real” people like Joyce Meyers who listening to her program taught me so much) to replace what the world constantly tries to take out of you. As Joyce put it- I may not be where I should be, But Thank God I am not where I used to be! Keep moving toward God-draw near to Him, and He will draw near to you.


Twice,Oh wow! What a POWERFUL post that is!!!! I will copy it and keep it on my bathroom mirror for encouragement and as a reminder of what we are here to do.Thank you. You are gifted, and I am grateful that you didnt sugar coat the truth. Too many times we numb down Jesus commandments and the bible for the sake of offending someone. It is our duty for the sake of others souls to tell the truth clearly. Our first conviction should be to use the bible as the final authority. All of our answers are here, and in using that as our unequivocable truth, our actions should follow it.

Twice Betrayed

sabrina, I am humbled by your kind words. To God be the Glory!

Your post is excellent, correct, and strongly worded. Thank you!


Thank you all for your posts, comments, every one of them being helpful. Being reminded about the reality of our situation on earth is beneficial. I was living my life, doing okay. Stuff started happening that unhinged me (brought on by my husband), being clueless that anyone would want to act in ways he behaved. It hit too close to home, slowly waking up to a reality that was jarring. Reading (in an earlier post) about Jesus being betrayed by his disciple (and friend) Judas reminded me that He does understand, He can totally relate to what all of us are going through or have gone through. I related to what Jesus might have experienced (emotionally) upon learning that it was someone close to Him that turned Him over to the authorities. He definitely didn’t deserve all that happened to Him, but He allowed God’s will to be done, knowing internally that His Father was ultimately in control know matter what he endured. Thank you for the posts, helping me cope, learning from others, putting myself in their shoes, realizing that it’s time to stop feeling sorry for myself and move on (in a positive direction). I have grit, not wanting evil to win. So many of you are such good writers, expressing your thoughts so well – exreemly helpful. I don’t think I have that gift.


Bluejay- I see you as a tremendous asset here! We all have to be here for each other to encourage and remind each other of the truth. If one person falls, another is here to pick them up- WE ALL need to be LIFTED up from time to time.

You pointed out something that got me to thinking deeper as well about Jesus knowing what it is like to be betrayed. Not only that but rejected, and unjustly punished by death in the cruelest of ways with his beloved mother looking on. All of it just to pay for OUR sins. Through Jesus sacrafice for all humankind, we are given power thru him, HE says …by his stripes you ARE healed. -Not gonna be, hope to be.. we are.
I know the world just does a number on us to make us believe differently.Our God is not bankrupt, in a financial crisis, national deficit, or any of those human conditions, He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. All He asks us to do is to take up the cross and follow him. He says He will supply all of our NEEDS.
Twice pointed out tho, Jesus DID say we would be persecuted for his namesake.It is a fight of good and evil. Jesus will take that “grit” that is in you Blue, and show you that mountain can be moved! xoxo

kim frederick

Bluejay, I think you express yourself quite well, and as Sabrina said above, you have a lot to offer. I hope we’ll continue to hear from you.

Ox Drover

I finally came to see the challenges we face in life as a way to LEARN NEW LESSONS. In reading the story of The Future King David having to runn and hide in caves to keep The jealous King Saul from killing him, I believe that God COULD have kept Saul from trying to Kill David, but God warned David through Saul’s son who was his friend, and david ran and hid.

Saul hunted David for several years and David actually had the chance SEVERL TIMES to killl Saul but he refrained from doing so.

If God COULD have kept Saul from trying to hurt David, WHY didn’t he? Well, it looks to me like David HAD A LESSON TO LEARN IN THE WILDERNESS AND IN HIDING….

Also, David was a sinful man, he did some pretty nasty things, adultery, murder, etc. but he was still called “a man after God’s own heart?” Why was such a SINFUL man given that term? I think it was because David TRULY repented when he was confronted about his sins. That is what God wants from us I think, is a truly CONTRITE HEART no matter what we have done, how bad it is, or how terrible.

Everyone “sins” if you want to say that “sin” is doing something we know is wrong. I have done things I know were wrong at the time I did them, I did them because I wanted to for one reason or another. Yet, I also have a contrite heart about these things AND I try to NOT do things now that I know are “sins” (bad things) but I still fail to do good things I know I should do, and still do bad things as well. BUT my heart is contrite, I have realized finally, I think that I must TRUST GOD. God’s promise that “all thiings will work toetgher for GOOD to those that Love the Lord” is a promise that I believe I can trust.

So now, when I pray, I pray not “specifically” for some THING to happen but for “whatever YOU know is best to happen” and then trust that no jmatter what happens it will eventually turn out for the BEST FOR ME!

We do not have the power to look at a specific event and see what ramifications it will bring about in a month, in a year or in a decade.

I’ve had things happen to me that were devestating and I cried when they happened. I had the BEST most wonderful job in the world at the college not far from here as director of student health. We got a Psychopath in there as the new president and he cut the job to PART TIME (there went my benefits and insurance) and I CRIED, I RAGED, I SCREAMED. But I went out and got a job that was only 2 days a week as charge nurse on a geriatric psych unit. They needed a medical background nurse (I am a retired advance practice would only have to work 2 twelve hour shifts on Sat and Sunday.

My egg donor was upset that I had “abandoned my career” for a job, but I began to see that there were some great lbennies, I got to STAY HOME 5 days a week! I didn’t particularly like the job but I was good at it, and it was obvious there was a BIG need for my skills there.

I tookk the job in June, and in October I was at my folks’ house and my stepfather was sick, I assessed him and then knew I had to get him to a physician as quickly as possible. I prayed his fever was caused by oone of the several tick fevers here and not by cancer. Sure enoujgh, it was a particularly aggressive kind of cancer for which there really was no hope, plus he was 81.

I was there for and with him as we made the medical rounds, to comfort him and “translate” medical-speak where he coujld understand it. He lived 18 months ninstead of the projected 4 months, and he didn’t just take 18 months to die, he LIVED THOSE 18 MONTHS and I was able to stay with him monday through Friday and over see his care and to ‘catch” the complications that would have made him feel worse. WHAT A BLESSING THAT WAS.

In July the next year, after he had been diagnosed the previous October, my husband was killed in a plane crash here at the farm. I WAS HOME, because I was HOME and not at work, I got to be with my husband those last 8 hours when he was alive and conscious and we got to say our goodbyes WHAT A BLESSING THAT WAS.

I realized that if I had not “suffered the disappointing loss” of my previous job I would NOT have been here for those very important (to me) things. I saw then that the loss of the job which was at that time, devestating emotionally, was actually a BLESSING IN DISGUISE!

As for me having to “run from my home” and leave it all behind, believe me, I can SEE SOME LESSONS IN THAT TOO. Frankly I was too “house proud” and too “contented” with the life FELT I HAD ARRANGED.

Sure, I had a career I loved, that paid well, and gave me respect in the community and satisfaction, and a beautiful farm provided by my ancestors who had worked like slaves on this land so that it was debt free. I had also worked hard to be debt free and to build my home, restore the farm to productivity, etc. but God had given me the strength, the intelligence and the opportunities to be able to do these things. THE BLESSINGS and I had gotten like the man Jesus talked about who was such a rich farmer he decided to tear down all his barns and build bigger ones because he was RICH AND SECURE. I learned during my period of running for my life that no matter how secure you think you are, you can lose it all in ONE MINUTE, and where Jesus advised us to “lay up treasures in heaven” rather than here on this earth, I realized that my belief and faith in God was not what it should have been and that God the Father was not the angry diety that didn’t really even like me…..I started seeing the BLESSINGS I had and counting those blessings daily.

Not only the positive blessings, but the negative ones too, like TODAY I DO NOT HAVE A TOOTH ACHE.

I spent enough time in third world countries when I was a teenager to have SEEN parents who couldn’t feed their children, or had no place to lay their heads under a roof, or had no medical care. Just having CLEAN water to drink is a BLESSING, a bed to sleep on that is more than a torn blanket on a dirt floor is a blessing. Sometimes we are so “rich” in this world’s goods compared to the many who are so poor that we forget what blessings we DO HAVE.

“I cried because I had no shoes until I saw a man with no feet.”

I can’t control the world, even though I have at times arrogantly thought I could, and you know it runs right along just llike it always has since I have decided that God can run it all by Himself without me telling Him how to do it. LOL

In the meantime, I try my best to trust that God knows what He is doing, and that if I do the best I can and TRUST him to keep His promises to me that ALL will turn out for good if I do Love Him, then I just do the best job I can and leave the rest to HIM!

Sometimes my faith falters, like Job’s, because I don’t understand enough and don’t trust enough, but I try to be like King David and learn from the adversity! Let that adversety make me stronger. Prayers for us all.


When I read the Bible and spend time with God, I do feel better, peaceful. It’s when I “get out into the world” that I get knocked down, going timidly along in life, not viewing myself as a fighter, being forced to recognize and deal with stuff that I’d like to pass on. I don’t want anyone to be hurt by others, but we all hurt each other at times. There are people who have a rougher road to walk in life (I tend to think I’m in this group presently) and my heart goes out to them, thinking that it’s unfair. Are there other people who think that it’s hard to maneuver through life, figuring out what your next step should be, fearing missteps? I have never been a happy-go-lucky person (probably too serious at times), just wanting things to work out in the end for everyone. I know that God exists – I just have to make my way over to Him, wanting to have continual peace in life (for myself and others). Thanks for the encouraging words, Sabrina and Kim Frederick.

Ox Drover

Dear Blluejay,

I think we ALL want peace, the problem is that sometimes we think that “being peace keepers” in stead of PEACE MAKERS is the way to go about it.

In my own dysfunctional family of hard core psychopaths and hard core “peace keepers” having PEACE MEANT to “pretend none of it happened.” Not to raise the fact that someonen in the family was abusing someone else.

God and “forgiveness” were used as CLUBS to batter anyone into compliance with the “let’s pretend we have a nice normal family and that no one in the family is actually a PSYCHOPATHIC MONSTER.”

God was used as this angry diety that could read your mind and if you didn’t pretend that Uncle Monster wasn’t going to get drunk AGAIN and abuse someone (always female) in the family and there fore you had to be “nice” to Uncle Monster even though he had done all these EVIL things and WOULD DO them again….you had to “forgive and forget” and if you didn’t GOD WOULD ZAP YOU TO HELL!

I didn’t even really know that Uncle MONSTER was a monster until I was a grown woman (Keep the family SECRETS from everyone you can) and after my Grandfather had a serious accident and was in the hospital, Uncle Monster drove my grandmother back to the farm to get some clothes and other items as she had left the farm with the ambulance.

They were supposed to return that night–but we didn’t hear from them for several days, when finally my grandmother called my egg donor’s home and said that Uncle Monster had been on a drunken tear for three days and had held her at gunpoint, kept her from eating or going to sleep (she was diabetic,l very frail and 78 years old) He had also held pots of boiling water over her head and thratened to pour it on her.

My grandmother asked that someone comem and get her, that he had fallen asleep and she had gotten to the telephone.

I left my kids with my egg donor and got my pistol, and drove the 75 miles to the county seat in the county where my grandparents’ farm was, and stopped by the county sheriff’s office and explained to him what was going on and asked him if he wanted to send a deputy with me, and I told him I had a pistol and planned to use it if I needed to to rescue my grandmother. He told me, “Nah, I don’t need to send a deputy, if you kill him, “he’s paid for.”

At that time, and soometimes still, it is a valid defense in this county that “the SOB just needed killing”—anyway, when I got there Uncle Monster had awakened and hit the road, I am assuming that my grandmother told him that someone was on the way to rescue her.

After that I never again wanted anything to do with Uncle Monster—and I really had little or nothing to do with him. In fact, when my grandfatehr got out of the hospital they were so afraid to go back to their home that they rented an apartment in town and stayed there for 3 or 4 months until Uncle Monster decided to go to the VA alcohol rehab—and we know how long that lasted.

After the death of my grandparents, my egg donor started assuming the role of “family peace keeper” and the enforcer of the “LET’S PRETEND NONE OF THIS EVER HAPPENED.”

Eventually, this led to her protecting my psychopathic son from me —He is in prison for murder and I am fighting his upcoming parole hearing with everything I have. She is punishing me for doing so and supporting him in every way possible, from money to hiring attorneys for him.

I am no longer willing to be a “peace keeper” by pretending that my son is not a psychopath, that he has not already killed, and already tried to have ME KILLED, and almost got my son C killed.

So my trying to MAKE PEACE for the rest of us, I am being persecuted by the “PEACE KEEPER.”

So, there is chaos and I don’t totally have “peace” but in order to even have my LIFE, I must stand up and SHAKE IT UP and expose the bad guys. Jesus said if we do what is RIGHT we WILL be persecuted.

I don’t think He was jjust talking about religious persecution either. People who are DOING WRONG, like the Pharisees in the days of Jesus, who are also pretending to be doing right, they do NOT want us to expose them. Jesus ticked the Pharisees off because he exposed them for the hypocrits that they were—so what did these “piously religious” people do, they conspired to hire FALSE witnesses so they could get him EXECUTED.

Here was a man (Jesus) so powerful he could restore the withered hands, raise the dead, and they saw these miracles, and still they thought they could win over Him. For a while I imagine they thought they had WON, but they had LOST! Satan had lost. Evil had lost.

Sure, we want to think that people in our world want peace, and want to do what is right, but that’s not always true. There are people like Pilot who “wash their hands” and don’t want to “get involved” and there are others who outright lie, steal, manipulate, and punish anyone they think might expose their lies and hypocricy!

But, I would still rather be the persecuted than the persecutor. I would still rather be able to look myself in the mimrror and say I TRIED TO DO WHAT I THOUGHT WAS RIGHT. I tried to “do unto others as I would they did unto me” but at the same time, I am going to expect that others also DO UNTO ME, THE SAME WAY I DO UNTO THEM, or I am going to get away from those that are liars and abusers. If that makes them mad. So be it. This world will never have 100% peace, but I can work on peace WITHIN MYSELF with God’s help.



I always get confused when people talk about god and quote the bible. I was brought up (and I use the term loosely) by the most self centred narcissistic pseudo intellectual sadists I have yet to encounter personally other than them ( I had no idea at the time, I was ‘in it’).

And I was brought up an ‘athaeist’ . The term ‘evil’ did not compute to me because of the ‘nutty religious’ connotations:(…. and I was/am not religious… (I think I AM spiritual… but of no fixed abode;)

I only ever used the word ‘evil’ in jest until after I met ‘the’ sociopath. Now I believe that there IS real evil in this world. Its not a joke. Its not a movie. It is not a red man with horns. And it doesn’t live in a holy book. It’s in this banal everyday world of human beings.

Its hard.

Looking at my waffle above; I also want to comment on your ‘So many of you are such good writers, expressing your thoughts so well ”“ exreemly helpful. I don’t think I have that gift.’ comment: I think I’ve said just the same thing here before. But I realise that a lot of the time I want to express something but cant. Not because it isn’t all there, but because I don’t know how to organise it!:) I am learning to give myself a break on that sort of stuff…I know where I am coming from (if no one else does!) and the intent is good:)xxx


to rupture our connection with our faith is a spectacular and heinous achievement.

to lose the ghost/ false lovers, partners and family, and to find ourselves unable or afraid to connect to our faith is part of the devastation.

sometimes that is achieved by the tactics that ultimately leave us feeling unworthy of faith and the resiliency and comfort if can foster, and sometimes it is because our actual beliefs or practices are targeted by those on the ASPD. And sometimes it’s both.

Between the N ex gf and the Spath my spirituality is oddly both damaged and stronger. I think it’s that way with most things for me now. I have lost a lot within me and in the world – so i am stripped down and more and more i see the essence can ONLY be worthy. and yet, there is this layer of trauma that i see a lot of the world through – i feel unsafe, incapable, ill and without resources.

i don’t feel well today – i have had a couple of bad chemical exposures the last few days. i left a conference early – i was squirming to be out of my skin. it was hot and the air wasn’t good…

i was only there to network and talking to people was painful. cause i feel like crap. and sometiems that tips easily into feeling like a piece of crap.

i have to turn down a job offer today – and i was pretty sure that i would do what i always do, talk myself into it.

i get anxiety when i look for work, which is compounded by anxiety about having less and less money, and the fear that i will just tip right over the edge.

now that i am allergic to so much in the environment, the anxiety is higher. MUCH higher.

i was offered this job….it’s a short term contract. which means in 14 weeks i would be out of work again. they have no office space – which means i would have to continue to work out of coffee shops as my toxic home is not a good place to work. they have no works space and meet in board members homes – they all have dogs. i cannot do this. and when we need to do a work party how the hell is that going to work?? we met in a coffee shop yesterday , but i can already see pressure being brought to bare to shift that.

i don’t know if i can tell you, express how much this is overwhelming, how hard it makes everything, how unsafe and unsure it makes everything –

i also realyl need to move, and a 14 week contract would mean i oculd not in the short term – i have to give 2 months notice, look and move. i need a steady income to know what i can affort. this new job would pay 2 times what the old one paid – and this city is like that – up down all around. mostly down.

the job is for a small festival, they have some funding. the pay is good. the job description keeps ‘evolving’ – which would need to [email protected]#$%^ stop.

i don’t know if i can do the job. it’s a copr. fundraising position with a high dollar value and a short time lines.

and the worst piece – the one woman i never ever wanted to work with again is on the board. a very active member. i used to work for her, as in under her. she is a nightmare. no other person can make me feel that bad that fast. she’s a master of the deify, devalue and discard. it’s like there is something wrong with her brain. she has done the same to all save one of a core group who have worked with her.

i could use some help this if anyone is around. i am tryingnot to get all black and white in my thinking. i set up a meeting with the board – so i could see how she is in this context and she didn’t come to the meeting. I have seen her recently and i was shocked by the fact that it takes all of 5 minutes for me to feel like a piece of crap, and i haven’t worked for her since 2006. it was while working for her that i damaged my hands…so i am sure there is some charge there for me – her ineptitude with workers comp. almost cost me my claim – i had to fight long and hard to undo the damage she did (ultimately winning)

she is a nightmare. her name is holly (sorry eb 😉 and we call what goes on inside her head ‘hollyworld’. she is always out for herself, always trying to turn everything to her advantage (and is rather good at it). she is toxic and dismissive.

….and i don’t have money to pay rent in 6 days.

2 dear people (the Executive Director at my job that just ended and a wonderful wonderful guy who is a business developer) set this up for me – worked behind the scenes and had the producer of the festival call me . they had no idea I have a history with her – well, they do now.(all i have said is that i ran screaming from her emply as if my hair was on fire)- and please someone tell me this is nuts, but i feel like i am letting THEM down. man, i will take crap to please people!

i wanted to write here last night – but felt so tired, sick and dispirited after the meeting with the board, all i could manage was to watch a bit of online tv.

i know, that in the right setting i will thrive – but the setting parameters are getting narrower and narrower and it scares me. a lot. i dont let myself dwell on that, but damn, i just want to curl up in a ball and cry.

I EXPECT her to challenge my fundraising chops – and i couldn;t,really couldn’t handle it. i read,i itry, i self educate. i am skilled and taleneted, but don’t have a record to stand on in this very selective area. i lack some slef esteem, but ususally it comes as i do the work and succeed. I am also pretty good with dealing with the succes rates (which in this sort of furndraising would be pretty low). but the idea of doing all that interneal work, and being sick and her ickiness….

bewtween the @#$%^ board member, and the lack of safe space i just feel felled. that it is not possible. it’s even hard to write about it.

i feel bad every time i ‘fall’ down. every time i can’t keep going cheerfully – every time i say no, for good reason i think it sounds like i don’t want to work or try or whatever, and i KNOW it isn’t that – but F^&* i have been abused around the ‘be flexible’ shit. every freaking disordered person i have known wants me to be @#$% flexible. i am even beating myself up for leaving the conference (which my developer friend got me a comp $125. ticket for). sorry, had to leave, my life felt like crap and i just couldn’t be beside the perfumed people today….

if you have some time, please, some help.

Ox Drover


Spirituality is not the same as “religion” and many people who are RELIGIOUS are sure NOT spiritual. LOL

I have gained insight from the sacred writings and beliefs of many different spiritual aspects, not just the Bible. I don’t believe that ALL good ideas or ALL good advice comes ONLY from the Bible. There ARE many good ideas and spiritually uplifting examples in the Bible though that apply even for unbelievers.

There are some good ideas in Grimm’s Fairy tales for that matter, and in the Mythohlogy of GReece and Rome, and each of us must choose for ourselves what path we want to follow with our spirituality and our belief systems. Though I was raised in a “religious” home, I now see that only my stepfather had any spirituality along with that religion. His was not the same as my egg donor’s, by a long shot, but his love and spirituality was drowned out by her screaming anger rage and control, using religion as a CLUB to keep me knocked into line, or actually TRYING to use it for that purpose.

“You know, you can never beat a philosophy into a man’s brain”

Don’t remember who said that, but religion or any philosophy that is such that someone FORCES you to “believe” isn’t going to produce anyone of any TRUE BELIEF though they may fake it. I honestly am not sure I even had any belief, not true belief, that was fostered with FEAR from the earliest memories I have, from age 4-5-6 of wondering what it would be like to go to hell-fire-and-burn-forever if I wasn’t quick enough to say “sorry” the instant before I died. My child’s mind tried to figure out a way around going to hell by being “quick on the draw” right before I died. If that is not child abuse, and relligious abuse and spiritual abuse I don’t know what is, but I had no idea at the time what was going on, I just knew my egg donor had warned me about this angry diety who was apparently up there reading my mind and waiting to zap me.


Oxy, I swear you should write a book about your life, I have been mesmerized by your posts ( It IS possible to laugh and cry, cheer and jeer at the same time) I probally have said that before but I, for one am so proud that genuine people exist on this planet like you (along with so many others here as well.)
I know you are a humble type, not tryin to “lay up treasures for yourself..” BUT sister, YOU have the kind of spirit that I know makes demons tremble! NO WONDER you have had so much evil come your way- THEY wanna take you down, BAD.
Keep up being the fierce warrior that you are. If I werent already on your team, I’d wanna know where to sign up!

I had a dream many years ago that I was in the presence of a demon. It was laying in a hospital bed and when I walked in, I was forced to quote scripture over and over in order to keep the demon down in the bed- the minute I stopped quoting, the evil thing would raise up from the bed, as if to devour me. The next part of the dream, my mother appeared in the hospital room. HER ANNOINTED PRESENCE alone was enough to keep the demon down on its death bed.
The lesson given to me in that, was that I too had to become more christ like, walking in the light. It being NECESSARY to fight evil and keep it from consuming me. Exodus repeatedly speaks of being/becoming Holy. Whatever comes into contact with God becomes holy , being in the presence of God causes annointing upon the spirit.

Bluejay, what wisdom you shared when you said in the world you get knocked down.Jesus sd. “in the world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.
Your so right- allowing the spirit of the world (sin/ungodliness) in, massive destruction can happen in our lives. Worldliness results in losing our annointing. The spirit of the world wants to destroy the scriptures, and the truth.
Like Oxy spoke of- the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herod (examples of worldly selfishness,and corruptness) are examples of the dangers of worldliness- and a lesson in never thinking that one has “arrived”, and are too powerful to be taken down.


One step, I am so sorry that you are going thru so much at once. I dont have any real answers for you unfortunately, I am not much help, but I do know when all the pressures on me pile up all at once- so much that I feel Im holding my breath, unable to breathe, I have to focus on smaller bits of the puzzle,breaking it down into more managable, palitable doses. Sometimes taking a mental break from the issues is good, although I fight it, stubbornly thinking I must take it all head on- bull dozing thru each intricate part of my problems. When my mind is in panic mode, adrenalin at all time highs- Its ultimately a recipe for disaster for me. I actually shut down my decision making part of me, disarm any common sense, reasoning, and go into all out panic mode.
Dont beat yourself up for leaving the conference- I think you were going thru what I go thru, just a complete over load and maybe it was best that you left.
I know it may seem overly simplified, but I often think about what a mentor of mine, 70 plus yrs old used to say over and over- “Things have a way of working out.” I think I heard him say it SO many times in my earlier years- even dubbing in my own snide remarks at times like Yea RIGHT! Easy for him to say, He’s OLD and DONE!
Your body (you are feeling it mentally and physically) obviously needs a minute to recover, and really just breathe again.
I am by no means trivalizing what you are going thru- ANYONE can see that you have huge hurdles that need your attention, but can I advise that you not be so hard on yourself? Give yourself credit that you are capable and are gonna work thru each issue best you can, just not all at once.
I wish I could give you a HUGE hug, bring you my banana bread I just got out of the oven and give you the TLC that you DESERVE so much!!!! In the south, we say with the deepest of convictions- Bless your heart. Some of my “yankee” (lol) friends thought this comment was like making fun, or not well intended, said off handedly without sincerity- It MOST certainly is NOT! It is reserved for the most serious and well meaning of comments. I take the term “Bless your heart” as a most welcomed term of endearment, and say it with deepest regards. xoxo


Faith and philosophy aren’t neccessarily mutually exclusive. I think we have seen over and over in history that when you take faith out of the operating philosphy of a society or even a single human being, the ability to overcome adversity and temptation are diminished and that recovery depends on the belief that there is something more.

This being said, there are wonderful philosohies. My favorite although I do modify it for my own purposes by the inclusion of faith in a higher power that grants, understands and forgives both they who suffer and they who cause suffering, is Objectivism.

I’m not promoting any particular philosophy or religion –

It looks like this- In the context here I love this idea because it does change everything!

“The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath: I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine”.

from John Galt’s Speech in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand


thank you.

i get scared about the money.

I don’t want this job – at least as i see it/ fear it to be. only thing interesting about it is the money. and if i was so challenged in other ways – the challenge of the work goal itself.

and it’s true – it’s just too much all at one.

i tired to break it down by meeting with the board, and talking to the director about my allergies… i don’t know if people coudl really conceive of what this is really like when i tell them – one of the board members was moldy. i kid you not, i sat beside this woman, and her house must be moldy and i kept wanting to lean away from her….my face flushed and i just thought – damnit, how am i going to cope with all of this?

i have ‘been coping’ for a year now, escalating sensitivities – affecting my health, my mood, my cognitive ability, and i just can’t hold it togehter anymore. i am done. and i just need to sit in that and see what i can do.

and i would love some banana bread. i will send my address. 🙂 my birthday tomorrow. i’ll put a candle in it.


One Step,
You are inbetween a rock and a hard place. None of your options are really good ones, hence they are very difficult to make. Creating YES, more stress…Exactly what you don’t need.
You need to earn money to survive but you also need a decent work enviornment, so that you can thrive and work.

NOTHING you described in your above post has any simple solutions. All of it is complicated and forces you to be vulnerable with these people if you are to admit why you can’t work under these conditions.

Somehow you have to try and simplify where your main focus needs to be right now. This is much easier said than done. And I am not trying to minimize your pain, because I feel it in your writting.
When I try and “think” about these kinds of things (in my head) that overwhelm me and create stress and anxiety, I also tend to mix all my emotional feelings with them as well. And spend entirely to much time in my head with these thoughts whirling around…..And I get nowhere. Except more stress, more anxiety, more fears, and usually a crying spree follows from the emotions.

The ONLY way I have found to even begin to redirect my prioritys are to write them down. Then eliminate the things that I can “deal with” later, to include important things but just not as important as some of the others.

For some reason this helps to clarify things for me. Finally I end up with a clean sheet of paper and only a FEW top priority issues.

Its a matter of deciding what must come first. The chicken or the egg?
One, what must you do first here? Do you need the job first before you can get new housing? Probably. Because money is going to determine where you might live?
But also would you qualify for any aid right now to get housing w/o having a job as yet? Or would that housing be woprse than where you live now….
If you felt better health wise, you would do better.

I know that you have been struggling with all of these questions and these issues, your housing, and your health and job situation all while suffering from ptsd.

But you almost have to answer at least two or three of them before you can proceed.

Could you continue to live where you are (for awile longer) and take on a temporary position if it paid well enough, to try and save money to be able to move? Can you continue to work in the coffee shops, just to be out of the toxic house for several hours a day?
You KNOW all the questions….You just now need to try and find some “workable” solutions.
But maybe if you could solve just ONE of the problems. Either the job or the house issue, the rest would be a bit easier. Not easy, just easier. A little stress relief is better than none.

And I am sure that you also have medication or an inhailer or something that you do for your allergies and medical condition. Is there ANYTHING more your doctor can do for you?

3 big prioritys…Health, housing and job. Is there anything you can do to give yourself some relief? I know you have asked yourself this over and over again.
You and only you know what you can and can not deal with as far as your health. And your money situation.

I am going to be out of town tomorrow and want to wish you a Happy B-day early. Be REALLY gentle with yourself tomorrow. Give yourself that gift.

Ox Drover

You know Sabrina, I had a recurring dream when I was little, 5 or 6 years old and I would generally have it when I was sick and running a high fever. (in those days frequent strep throat) and in the dream, which was I was in a prison, and the prison scene I thinnk was probably taken from a “picture Bible” of a partly subterranian thick walled made out of stone “dungeon” with bars across the windows.

The door was made out of planks upright with another plank at an angle from one top corner to the opposite corner of the bottom side. It had a “lift latch” like a barn door might have.

I was in this room and I knew that I was going to die, and that I was going outside to be executed. Inside the room was a largte over-stuffed rocker that was identical to the one my grandfather sat in (I was very close to him all throughout my life and I got unconditional love from him) and I hid behind it when I knew they were coming to get me. Funny thing was I somehow knew without actually seeing her that outside on the other side of the door they would open to come get me was my egg donor, and while she was sad I was going to be executed, she did nothing to save me or comfort me.

I had this same exact dream quite a few times and by the time I was 8 or 10 I never had it again, but you know just this MINUTE the sympbology of that dream hit me between the eyes like a BRICK! Even then I think I knew that my egg donor didn’t much like me, much less love me and felt that I deserved harsh punishment for SOMETHING I had done, and I strongly suspect it was because I was born a girl instead of a male child.

She was the girl in the family and though her brother was a MONSTER from a very young age, and her parents did love her, still—males were much more valued and there was nothing she could do, no matter how good she was, how hard she studied, nothing she could do to “make up” for being a woman. So when she had a child she hoped that she would be able to at least PRODUCE A MALE CHILD. Didn’t work out that way, so she took the two male children I had as her own.

Thank you for the kudos for my writing, Actually I did do 3 books that were published, 1 was a cook book, and two on local history here, but you know writing isn’t nearly as easy as reading. LOL I’m just a very loquatious and mouthy old woman for the most part, and very opinionated! Which I have been told by several posters here. But, frankly, I think any good I have to do as far as writing is concerned is probably more for blogging here on LF because publishing right now is getting to be problematic with the down turn in the economy, and while I actually have a friend who is a regional publisher here in Arkansas and would publish my books, I’d have to fund them like in the “vanity press” as her business has had a decided down turn as well. My other three books that she published had a limited but “good” success for the kind of books that had only regional interest at best. They actually made a few hundred dollars, but that worked out to probably 10 cents an hour for her time and mine! LOL

But thank you anyway for the vote of confidence on my writing. My purpose is to help others, but mainly to REINFORCE my own healing.

Yesterday I got an e mail from a VERY DEAR FRIEND who has also been highly abused by a psychopath, and was raised in a very very ABUSIVE family, and this person follows my posts on LF and anyway I had e mailed him about something else and he had been reading my posts on here and he sent me a very short, concise e mail and told me to PRACTICE WHAT I PREACH!

He is one of those people that I value his opinon because he doesn’t care if he pithes me off or not! He is going to speak the truth to me as he sees it and if I don’t like it, TOUGH! Most of the time he is RIGHT AS RAIN though, so I listen carefully to him.

I have this recurring tendency to want to “rescue” people, in the name of “helping” and sometimes I have to get a wake-up BOINK from my friends and my son D! But, I’m “doing better” which means once in a while I actually “catch myself” instead of having to have someone else hit me over the head with a cast iron skillet! LOL

I’m trying to live in such a way I can face God, but you know, I’m a difficult pupil and have had to have “remedial classes” several times on the same lesson! LOL

Ox Drover

Witty, Sabrina and One-step, Looks like we are posting over each other here….

Witty I think your advice to One-step is GREAT and I think you should use it yourself because YOU TOO are between the DEVIL and the DEEP BLUE SEA, THE ROCK AND THE HARD SPOT. LOL No good or easy answer to your problem

I have wiggled temporarily out of those binding spots, but I know sooner or later I will be back in there on some other “problem” that comes up and I will try to remember your good advice! ((((Hugs))))) LOL


One Step At A Time,

I feel for you, knowing that the stress is tremendous, too much for you. When I am in panic mode, it is hard for me to get out of it. All I can say is, I hope that things get better for you. I remember telling my brother-in-law that I live day-to-day, if I make it to the end of a day, I’m doing good. My therapist recommended that I read Dr. Norman Vincent Peale’s book, The Power of Positive Thinking, and when I do read it, it helps me to think that my life can improve, get better. I know that you have immediate needs. If anyone should win the lottery, I want it to be you. Like others have repeatedly said on this site, find ways to take care of yourself. I worry too much, making myself a mental basketcase, that’s why I deep breathe (when I remember to do so) and doing some mental imaging (closing your eyes, putting yourself in a peaceful, pleasant environment), essentially getting out of your head, to a different location for a while. I hope this helps.



I too grew up in a dysfunctional family, no affection, and very little communication. My parents did the best that they could. I now suspect that my mother might be bi-polar, but not definite about this. She was a controlling woman who would yell, scream at my father, shaking him up (he ended up becoming an alcoholic), and once she blew up, she seemed to be fine, leaving the rest of us on edge. We walked on egg shells, always feeling tension in the house. In fact, she could be downright rude toward friends, acquaintances, family members, etc. and it didn’t seem to bother her, a lack of concern about other people’s feelings. Having grown up in such a household, I am somewhat hyper-alert to others’ feelings, not wanting others to experience the drama that she could bring our way. Come to think of it, I have never gotten away from drama – it’s always there and it’s ususally not pleasant. I am with Sabrina, having read many of your stories (detailing your life experiences), you have a book that could be written. People would wonder how in the world you made it through.


One step-Happy B-day! I sure pray that you find a way to enjoy your day with peace and happiness, and for heavens sake avoid those “moldy” folks, yikes! Just say no to Barnacle Bob and Mold n Mildew Mindy! Whats the old sayin about not letting moss grow under your feet? bahaha 🙂

Oxy, how I laughed when I heard that comment “practice whatcha preach”, nothing like a dear old friend to shake it up a bit! I like that you were able to figure out the dream, interesting.. Another funny thing, I dont think I ever told you, but when I first came on LF, all of your posts were unlike anything I had ever heard, and me being so raw, distrusting at the time- I was thinking- IS THIS CHICK FER REAL?? Is she making this up?? Hiarious!! BUT b/c you were so kind to me and the first to welcome me, I instantly liked you anyways- regardless of my outlandishly suspicious mind! And since you arent too high on writing another book, I guess folks,, youve gotten it here first,, the one and only exclusive- strait from the Oxdrovers mouth,BELEIVE IT OR NOT!

kim frederick

Dearest Onestep, I want you to know I washed the sandelwood oil off my neck before i wrote this post to you.. 🙂

This may not be helpfull, but I hope it is. You are getting ahead of yourself and imagining the worst in every situation. You are letting your own thoughts cause fear and discouragement. I hope I’m not discounting your fears, but I do this to myself, all the time…it’s called self-sabatoge.

On the other hand, You don’t owe anyone anything as far as your decision whether or not you take this job.

I believe you are strong enough to handle the battle-ax. Now it’s up to you to decide if it’s what you want to do.

Like Wit said, you are between a rock and a hard place, but if you focus on the negative you magnify your fears.

Maybe you are being blessed with an AFGE. ( Another @$#%$^& Growing Experience.)

At any rate, I’m sending white light. I do understand…I have an interview tomorrow , 🙂 for a job I probably won’t like, 🙁 but I’m saying all the same things to myself.

I don’t have your health problems, though. This is just my 2 cents, and I could be way off base.

Ox Drover

Dear Sabriina,

“Is this chick for real?” LOL Yea, I’m FOR REAL! Jackass riding, skillet swinging old battle axe, but you know, I can “pass for” a lady if I have to! LOL I did it for years and most people never even suspected what lay behind that kind, caring and professional exterior! LOL ROTFLMAO

But actually, now that I am out from under the expectation of my egg donor that I have to present this “facade” to the world, I have “blossomed” into the REAL ME!

When I first started with the living history group, I decided to train a pair of oxen to pull a wagon for events, and since oxen are just really cattle trained to work, I had a lot of fun with it, but it wasn’t actually “dignified” like mummy-dearest wanted me to be, but gosh it was FUN! I developed my personna based on an ancestor of mine who as a widow came here in an ox wagon with her kids and settled in this communitynear her family. I figured she had to be a pretty gutsy woman to travel that far with nothing but poverty and some kids. She didn’t even show up as having enough to tax for years after she got here, and if you even owned one cow you got taxed on it! But in the 40 years after she arrived here a widow for the second time, the civil war and raising her grandkids whose parents perished in the war, she died with land and a little money left. Not bad for a woman alone!

Yea, after all those years, that dream makes sense now, I guess even as a kid I was emotionally smarter than I realized. And, you know, even a flat worm will learn to avoid something if you shock it with enough electricity enough times that it finally gets the idea. I realize now that I was “shocked” enough times I almost quit asking questions about the family dysfunction, and almost learned to accept it. Still hard to avoid those old habits and to get where I’m not so afraid of the “shocks” any more, but I’m working on it.

I guess first we have to realize we are doing something that as Kathy Hawk says “AIN’T WORKING FOR ME.” Once we realize it isn’t working, we have to figure out what it is that we are doing wrong—repeatedly! But since it somehow feels so “natural” or “normal” that may be difficult.

Yes, I am blessed with some great friends who are not the least bit afraid of my skillet or my gun! I cracked up son D the other day when he wanted to know where one of my pistols was, and I told him “It’s were it ALWAYS is, on my bed, under my Bible!” And actually I never thought about it being FUNNY, but that is where that particular pistol “lives.” It is always loaded with buckshot for up-close, in-house self defense at short range (it won’t shoot through a wall, but it will RUIN the day of anyone who takes even one shot from it with four rounds the size of a 9 mm slug). While it is a great self defense pistol for the home, the 6 inch barrel makes it unwieldy to carry unless you want to look “like Billy the Kid” which I don’t! LOL


kim – i love essential oils and cats and dogs and musty old barns…all things i can’t go near now. so weird.

no, you are not off base at all, and i feel the cord of connection around the work piece. and i wish you all the best luck tomorrow!

i just spent the last hour and a half talking to a friend (who knows the probably N, Holly) it sorted a few things. the fear in my mind is big. i get flooded with info sometimes – i realize i was picking up all kinds of stuff in the meeting yesterday…and i haven’t had enough time to process it.

i hadn’t thought of the too much in the head stuff as self sabotage. but i wouldn’t be surprised if it is.

thank you for your 2 cents worth. 😉

and best of luck tomorrow. it’s great just to have interviews and learn what that is like, and how to get comfortable doing them. hugs, one step

Ox Drover

Dear Bluejay,

Yes, the never ending DRAMA!

That “blowing off” throwing a fit drama that your egg donor did apparently is some of that as well. They build up and build up “steam” until the boiler “blows up” and releases some of the tension for a while and they feel “better” after that blow up, but others learn to walk on egg shells because you are never sure just WHAT will push them over the edge and cause a blow up.

We do ANYTHING to keep froom percipitating a “blow up” from those we fear. It makes us take “responsibility” and blame for that blow up because WE (according to them) pushed them to where they had no choice but to blow up. They feel that they were ENTITLED to blow up because of all the: 1) things we did to irritate them 2) how unfair life is 3) they are not understood or cared for and so on to number 1000 “reasons.”

Once they “save up” enough “reasons” for the blow up, their resentment and so on is temporarily quiet.

Learning to express myself and my boundaries (because these people would usually BLOW UP if you did) was difficult for me.

I remember a couple of years ago I had some “friends” that pushed my boundaries so far the fabric tore (they would steal from me) and I actually caught the woman of the couple taking some stuff and I didn’t say anything at the time since I knew she had seen me when I caught her at it.

Later, I was about fed up with this, and yet still hadn’t said anything and I cried for days before I set boundaries for this woman. Still hoping to “salvage” the relationship with her and her husband. DUH!

It took another year and a half before I finally told these people to bugger off and don’t bother to contact either me or my son D. They had been family “friends” for 15 years, and since my son D was first in boy scouts here at the camp in Arkansas. It broke his heart that these people were users, liars and thieves. Just as it did mine. But that was my first real experience with setting a boundary. For standing up and saying flat out: I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

It was so difficult to set those boundaries, because I had been trained from babyhood that WITH FAMILY AND CLOSE FRIENDS you can’t do that. I had NO trouble standing up to someone who was not “close” to me, I could tell off and get results from just about any store manager. My husband used to say I had GREAT TACT, that I could “tell someone to go to hell and make them be HAPPY to be on their way.” Heck I used to teach classes in how to deal with difficult clients/customers and make everyone happy. Yet, when it came to my own life, I could NOT “practice what I preached.”

It takes time and practice to start to be more at ease with other people being unhappy with you. I always felt like I was a kid going to the principal’s office if I set a boundary. Not now. I’m getting much better at it. EVEN WHEN IT IS SOMEONE I LOVE.

Sure setting boundaries is risky behavior because we must be prepared for that relationship to end and be okay with that if they do not respect our boundaries.

Ox Drover

Dear Kim,

KNOCK’EM DEAD IN THE INTERVIEW!!! TOWANDA!!!! Hey, it’s a job! Doesn’t mean you are marrying it! LOL (((hugs))))


witty witty witty!

When I try and “think” about these kinds of things (in my head) that overwhelm me and create stress and anxiety, I also tend to mix all my emotional feelings with them as well. And spend entirely to much time in my head with these thoughts whirling around”..And I get nowhere. Except more stress, more anxiety, more fears, and usually a crying spree follows from the emotions.

i feel all this just about the job.

i have been focused on getting a job, to the exclusion of the housing issues. but the last two days i am overwhelmed by exposures and i am going, ughh, how am i ever going to function if i live here?

but the job is #1.

there is no part time work here that pays well enough – barely any full time work that does – this is a huge problem. i have to consider another short term contract (there isn’t much full time work here either) when it is the last thing i want.

but mostly i want to be safe. physically and emotionally. i need to work, but if getting a job drags on, then i will have to move first- however that is ’cause it’s getting to the point that i can’t function.

the housing that would be available through aid has a 2 year waiting list, and could possibly be worse. I have checked into all the aid agencies. other things might come up. i have actually joined the local dowsing group as i want to find water, if it exists, on my land outside the city. i keep in my mind that maybe i could figure out something for out there – if there is water. but this is months down the road at the earliest.

i have asthma meds. and am well equipped for that and up to date with everything that the doctors have to offer – under good supervision. but, my face goes numb and i lose cognitive function and my skin burns when i am exposed to things now. it’s quite severe. there are no alopathics for any of this. i am doing the homoepathic and vitamin/ supplements that i can afford.

witty – lots of good and useful stuff in your post. thank you.

xxx and thanks for the bday wishes! i am going to go out to a beach (yes, it’s cold here still) in a conservation area that i love. and there is a little potluck being throw in my honour on saturday. it’s my 50th. i hope there are 50 candles. i’d like that.


sabrina and bluejay – ty for bday wishes! i will spend part of the day in a beautiful conservation area, where the air is clean and i can breath DEEP.

anxiety and worry – no wonder i don’t feel a lone- i have these freaking constant companions. the word PEACE comes shining out in your posts and i look at it with my head cocked, going, ‘right, i remember something like that.’ i get here for momens these days, and i wish for all of us that those moments are longer and deeper every day.


Guys, NEED your prayers. My son just came by and was all angry about an argument that he had with the kid that he is living with.
And how he had to move back home immediately. And how it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to go back to the family that he lives with tonight or they (him & his friend) would most certainly end up in a fist fight and blah, blah blah.

I was taken off guard, first of all because he just showed up here, but recovered quickly enough.

And of course STUPID me decided I could calmly and logically defuse this situation because it involved him and someone else and had NOTHING to do with him and me. This was no “hot topic” between us so certainly I could shed some light onto this, as any reasonable adult could do.


The fight that him and his friend had was not the end of the world. However I went along with him and tried to validate his feelings as well as trying to have him “walk” in his friends shoes and tell me how he thought his friend might have felt as well.

Pretty soon it was apperant that him “stopping by” might have nothing to DO with this argument at all.
He has an agenda to come back home, not sure what that agenda is. But it is there.

Before you know it this was all about me. And how awful it is that he can’t come back home. And how awful of a parent I have been and continue to be. Circular conversation. Around and around and around it went. I kept trying to navigate the conversation back to the problem at hand. More circular conversation.

And how right NOW we had to solve all of our problems, RIGHT NOW, or he was going to be sleeping on a bench tonight. He needed to come back home right now.

I told him no. He wasn’t going to move back home, right now.

If he was the “adult” he claims to be and could make the adult decision to leave home then he had to be an adult and LEARN to face some of the problems he encounters.

But of course HE doesn’t have the problem. I have a problem and the other kid has the problem and the whole damn world has problems. He doesn’t because he says so.

There is alot more going on than the fight with this kid. IF he even HAD a fight with this kid.
This is his second “excuse” in a little over a week, why he needs to come back here.
WHY does this kid want to come back home when he could NOT wait to get out?

kim frederick

Wit, You have my prayers.
To your last question, he wants to come back now, even though he couldn’t wait to get out before, because, possibly his mask has slipped they are asking him to leave, or maybe he just had it better with you. It’s clear, he’s wearing out his welcome. I would bet he isn’t being honest with you about any of it, either.

Is it possible to talk to the mom where he’s been living? To find out what is really going on?

I’m sooo sorry that his going to live with this other kid wasn’t a solution, but it did get you a little closer to 18.

Go back and re’read Matts advise. Breathe deep and say your prayers. Stay on-line all night if you have to.


Wits, You ask WHY does he want to come back home when he cldn’t wait to get out? As hard as it is to hear, I have concluded that “we” the moms are part of their “supply” and they can always get something viable from us- whether it be an arguement, tears, money, etc. Same as when my son (20 at the time) screamed that living with me was like living with Hitler, but always finds ways to come back around -most cases needing money. Never a visit from him unless there’s something in it for him.
Im sorry you had another confrontation with him, but you did great – you told him he couldnt come back!! You are very strong, and have grown in leaps and bounds with wisdom and are making good decisions.
I do know however, that any type of conflict with them leaves you emotionally drained and alittle empty.Do your best to not focus or dwell on it. Get into a good movie or book to take your mind off of it all. Wishing you the Best…xoxo


one step at a time:

Here’s a little rhyme I’m using to look for work:

I have wonderful work
for wonderful pay
wonderful people
for a wonderful day.

Also, here is something that helps me:

Peace in front of me,
Peace behind me,
Peace to my right,
Peace to my left,
Peace above me,
Peace below me,
Peace inside me,
Peace all around me.



(Wishing you a hottie that pops out of a huge cake dressed as a fireman and stripped to the waist with pecs of steel 😛

Have a wonderful day of celebration – we’re all lighting candles for you in our respective corners of the world!

Many happy returns and many more wondrous years to come!



one step takes off her hat, bows deeply with a big smile on her face. THANK YOU!!

could i have a pony instead?



pearl – thank you for these. 🙂

peace peace peace everywhere
like the snowdrops and crocuses pushing through the cool earth…peace

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