lf2

Letters to Lovefraud: The coldest man I’ve ever known

Editor’s note: The following story was submitted by a Lovefraud reader whom we’ll call “Marsha.”

I just wanted to write and share my story. I did some research on all the characteristics of what makes someone a sociopath. My father is a psychologist and knew my situation. He had mentioned the concept that my ex-fiancé was a sociopath after everything that happened to me and I didn’t think to ask him more about what that meant. After exploring this site with the symptoms, I realized that my dad was 100 percent right. Here’s my story:

When I met my ex-fiancé, it was through a mutual friend. He was charming, funny and seemed to be very witty and smart. He displayed himself as a go-getter, very ambitious, etc. We were friends for several months when our relationship seemed to get more serious. It was around that same time that I was living in an apartment that I loved within five minutes of my workplace. He lived in a fairly expensive high-rise condo on the beach, a condo that he owned, whereas I was renting.

He was a mortgage broker at the time and the housing market was steadily headed into the downfall. As we continued to date, his job stability as a broker seemed to be in question. Sure enough, about six to eight months into our relationship, he lost his job working for one of the major banks as they had some layoffs. He faced the challenge of paying his bills and mortgage in his condo as he waited for the opportunity of new employment.

Moving in with him

He created this idea that our relationship was headed in the right direction and that he “loved me.” He advised that really the only thing to do at this point would be to move in together. He urged me to quickly move into his condo so that we could play house in a sense and combine our incomes. Looking back I realize just how much I was duped.

I decided to give up my wonderful, beautiful, convenient apartment to move 30-45 minutes across the town to his location. I began paying him rent, month after month and not really seeing where the money was going. It turns out he was saving the money with plans to not pay the mortgage and lead his own self into foreclosure. He then anticipated that since we were not married he could just short sale the property in my name.

Now during all of this time, I let a lot of these financial plans slide through the cracks. I trusted him and figured that he had a plan. I didn’t know that this was a true con artist act in disguise.

During the span of time that I lived with him, he had kept in contact with an ex-girlfriend and stated that they had to keep in touch because he had known her for so long and that she was a friend. Again, I let this slide, even though I didn’t like the thought of it. Mainly because the communication was often and not of real purpose. Flirtatious, in many ways.

The marriage proposal

After one year of dating and living together I truly felt that I was in love with him. He proposed to me but even the proposal was cold and emotionless. We were arguing one afternoon and he laid the ring on the table showing that he had gotten the ring and that this should get me to stay.

This was never what I would have thought my proposal from the love of my life would have been like but again, love is blind and the sociopath can find a way to have you hanging onto a relationship that you know deep down doesn’t make sense.

He wanted silence

Needless to say, after several additional months his personality began to change and change and change. I never knew what personality I would get on any given day. He was oftentimes very irritable and mean. He was cold. I would come home from work and he would state that he couldn’t talk to me, he wanted silence. He would spend nights upon nights sleeping on the couch (by choice). What young engaged man chooses to sleep on the couch and not in the bed with his woman by choice?

It was as though all he cared about was the money that I was paying and the plans for the short sale.

He would talk sometimes about how people always betrayed him growing up and that he blames his father for being abusive. But, he rarely ever showed affection ”¦ kisses, hugs, terms of endearment.

I made excuses

I always would make excuses for him and say to myself ”¦ He’s just going through a lot right now ”¦ or he really cares, he just doesn’t know how to show it. Yet, over time it just seemed to be that he was purposefully being emotionally abusive and standoffish. He told me that I was too close to my family and should cut the close ties. It was almost as if he was jealous of my close relationship with my family and didn’t want that closeness to continue on.

Looking back, I realize that he didn’t want anyone else to figure him out. He didn’t want anyone else to realize that he was a fake, a fraud and that his love wasn’t real. His love didn’t mean anything.

He would always find a way to charm me, or reel me back in like a fish out of water, when I started to question his intentions or when I would take a stand. Then, there were other days where he just really didn’t give a crap.

I can’t say enough how this was the coldest man I’ve ever known.

Charmed again

After additional communication between he and his ex surfaced, along with his decision to allow a buddy of his (male) to come stay in our house for well beyond a few weeks, without asking me of course ”¦ I decided it was time for some separation. Although separation was there I still missed him. After a few days, he charmed me again and offered the possibility of my coming back home and things changing.

I came back, of course, and things didn’t change and he was as aloof as he had always been. The problem was that I still loved him and wanted to marry him, wanted to change him. Within a few additional days something very devastating took place ”¦ He cut the ties of the relationship with as much care or emotion as a gravedigger. Again, it was cold and at this point he devastated my life ”¦ he told me that he just couldn’t deal with this anymore and couldn’t be in a relationship.

After all I had sacrificed emotionally and financially, he was just easily done with everything. I took steps to move out. After that point, he didn’t call; he didn’t attempt to communicate at all.

I would have never been happy

At first, I went through hell. Replaying the events and wondering what I could’ve done differently. But looking back, he just wanted to live by his own rules ”¦ he clearly was a sociopath.

What is he doing now? I hear he is still living in the same place, filed bankruptcy and works out all the time to make himself look more muscular. He dabbles into drugs and is even further down the wrong path.

I’m just happy that I got out because I would’ve never been happy. He had no care or concern for anyone but his own self. I tried not to blame myself or get depressed. I try to realize that people like this, I call them users, don’t have a heart. They don’t care! They are truly sociopaths and will do whatever they can to win and to live by their own set of rules.

Please learn from my lesson ”¦


Comment on this article

414 Comments on "Letters to Lovefraud: The coldest man I’ve ever known"

Notify of

Dear Marsha,

You went through Hell. On the other hand, you got away relatively unscathed.

Your finances aren’t wrecked. You aren’t co parenting with an S, while watching your child for signs of budding character disorders. You haven’t been left with a nasty STD, a ruined career or blackened reputation.

I’m really sorry you went through that. I can relate to one critical aspect. My encounter with an S was unpleasant, but left me better off than I was before it happened. By some estimates, 9% of people suffer cluster B personality disorders. Before last year, I didn’t know this, nor did I know what it was about me that made me a pawn in their games.

Now I do. I bet you do too. You’ve got a great life stretching out before you, and I’m betting it will be cluster B free.

It is generous of you to share your story. Once in a while, I warn people too. I point people to the information about these disorders, and let them draw their own conclusions. If they get it, wonderful. If they don’t, their S/P/N will eventually put them in a more receptive frame of mind. We can’t save the world, but we can save ourselves and anyone who will listen.

Thanks for sharing your story. Although these story carry with them the same pattern of abuse control and the lack of caring and emotions from these s/p one must remember that it happen to this person. As I read these stories I now am able to see the many red flags.

“He urged me to quickly move into his condo so that we could play house in a sense and combine our incomes. Looking back I realize just how much I was duped.”

“He proposed to me but even the proposal was cold and emotionless.”

“Needless to say, after several additional months his personality began to change and change and change. I never knew what personality I would get on any given day.”

“He would spend nights upon nights sleeping on the couch (by choice). What young engaged man chooses to sleep on the couch and not in the bed with his woman by choice?”

“He would talk sometimes about how people always betrayed him growing up and that he blames his father for being abusive. (and) But, he rarely ever showed affection ” kisses, hugs, terms of endearment.”

“He told me that I was too close to my family and should cut the close ties. “

These red flags were always there but many of us just simply push them away.

The writer is very luckily in many ways. She has a good relationship with her family and sounds like she also has some very close and dear friends. These people will help her understand and then heal.

I know how I too remember the coldness distance lies and all the manipulations that by ex s/p did as well. I should have seen the many red flags myself but choose not too…

Yes, I have learned my lesson but it helps me to remember this lesson whenever I read a story like this.

Thanks again writer!

Marsha,

Thank you for sharing your story. I thought i knew what a red flag was, and in essence I did. but what I didnt know was HOW TO ACT ON THEM, HOW TO NOT LET MYSELF BE MANIPULATED AND PERSUADED ONCE I CALLED HIM ON IT. I DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS OR THE SELF-ESTEEM OR SELF-TRUST OR SELF-VALUE TO STOP. CHANGE DIRECTION. ALL I HAD WAS INNOCENSE AND LOVE IN MY HEART AND A DIRE NEED TO HAVE THAT RECIPROCATED TO ME – BUT THAT HAS TO BE DONE WITH GREEN FLAGS AND A GOOD /DECENT PERSON WHO RESPECTS AND LOVES HIMSELF AND OTHERS. HOW WILL I KNOW GOING FORWARD? BECAUSE IM LEARNING LESSONS, INVALUABLE LIFE LONG LESSONS ABOUT MYSELF AND OTHERS. ABOUT WHAT I DESERVE AND WHAT OTHERS DESERVE FROM ME – ONCE THEY EARN MY TRUST. THERE ARE NO SECOND THIRD FOURTH CHANCES…SURELY MISTAKES ARE BOUND TO OCCUR, BUT WHEN ITS WITH DECENT PEOPLE THEY ARE USUALLY LITTLE DISAGREEMENTS OR WRONG DOINGS…NOT STEALING MONEY, OR CHEATING OR BLATANTLY LYING – AND THE GOOD SOULS HAVE A WAY OF MAKING IT RIGHT AND FOLLOWING THROUGH – NOT GOING BACK TO THE SAME OLD CHIT.

I was not armed with the proper tools to deal with a bad man, and I was not able to protect myself once I fell head over heels for a bad man. Now I know to recognize the signs of a bad person for me in my life, and I take nothing personally – If I notice a red flag, i just say this is someone I dont want to associate with because they are on a much different path/wave length than me. And I have LEARNED to let people in my real life earn my trust and take note of the ones doing the same with me. The fly by night and on a whim ones, arent for me. And now nobody can tell me how Im feeling, what Im about – I trust myself and wont let myself down. Before I mostly trusted others, not myself.

Thanks for sharing!

LTl said Before, I mostly trusted others, not myself.
I agree with Learnthelesson wholeheartedly- I think that was where all of us went wrong at some point.I know I did. The key is to stick with BOUNDARIES. Spend enough time ALONE without the influence of a potential relationship and discover who you are. Meditate on what You aren’t – not someone who allows others to make me feel small,or uncomfortable. Dont allow others to take advantage even in small, seemingly harmless situations. I have now found that allowing even small inconsiderate actions conditions us to not take a stand on larger issues and will slowly erode the boundaries we hold so precious. I have had to learn how to be “prepared” ahead of time for those who push too hard for their own selfishness. I have had to go out of my comfort zone to stand up for me. Each time, I get stronger and more confident when I speak up. I find myself not getting as angry or depressed that my boundaries are challenged by selfish or thoughtless people, when I OWN the situation, and exercise my RIGHT to refuse or defend myself. It is a huge RED FLAG if someone is constantly overstepping their boundaries with me. I am learning to be bold and say “I am not Ok with this.” Actually, to my amazement others respect you more and a dysfunctional person may figure out to go fish in other waters-no shark meat here.
.

Marsha:

Same church, different pew.

Now I look back and wonder how the hell I ever put myself in that position. Learnedthelesson and sabrina are right — I lacked the tools to protect myself from such a creature. But, not anymore!

I know how much it hurts. Elizabeth Conley hits it on the head on the “plusses” if I can call them that, on your aftermath.

Thank you for sharing. An encounter with a psychopath is devestating. Your account helps others understand- psychopaths come in all stripes.

Elizabeth- I know she means well- said you got off easy comparably. By this definition, me too. I was even less involved- but I was destroyed. I didn’t even have a physical relationship, but being lied to about love and used for your resources is soul rape.

These psychopaths woudl have done whatever they could have without any remorse if tehy needed or wanted to. You didn’t get pregnant or contract and std- I am guessing that was just dumb-luck.Some psychos rape and rob one victim and kill the next- they’re all poison.

I think it is profoundly sad we as a society expect peopel to sue and dispose of one another in any form.

ps
I vote for a spell checker!

Sabrina – Thats it…thats what Ive found to be my best life plan going forward. Using and putting in place the tools Ive learned about setting boundaries and trusting myself to know the way I deserve to be treated. Towanda to your last TWO SENTENCES ABOVE!!!

Matt, Sabrina & Learnedthelesson,

I still struggle to figure out when to speak up and when to shrug it off. I hat the idea of becoming nitpicking or difficult.

Oddly, speaking up over little things has been rewarding. Normal people have been more considerate after being subtly warned that I would police boundaries.

Now that I think back on it, I realize that I did tell both the N and the S what I objected to quite early. They both ignored my preferences. Now I see that was a warning sign I should have taken very seriously. Instead of simply shrugging my shoulders and concluding the matter was inconsequential, I should have started watching for the next warning sign. There were plenty, but I was a patsy.

Normal people heed small requests for courtesy, even if the particular issue isn’t something they consider important. It’s the cluster Bs who ride roughshod over other people’s concerns.

Live and learn!

Marsha,
You are in the right place. I am so sorry you have had to go through this experience. Know that you are not stupid. There are many people, men and women, who are highly educated, wonderful and warm people. For me, it has taken time to absorb what was done to me. It was just too horrific. Two children and 42 years later I am wiser and permanently changed.
As I look back, I was a sweet, naive Catholic girl who wasn’t street smart. I was a nanny living with a family who took me to Hawaii for Christmas vacation. I met him 2 hours before I left Hawaii, as I went down to look at the beach for one more time. I was there 2 1/2 weeks. I was 19, and at a major turning point in my life – ready to leave the nest and move out on my own. I was ill-equipped and afraid. I was also looking for love – ready to be a wife and mommy. When he came along, he was so handsome and friendly. As I look back, there was a check in my spirit the moment I met him. I ignored it. He spent the 2 hours I had before the plane left talking about himself. Another red flag. Because I was in Hawaii, he thought I had money. Whoops! However, I WAS living in a BEAUTIFUL home and driving a brand new Cutlass convertable. I was living the lifestyle of the rich and famous. From the outset, he used me for the money I had. He encouraged me to leave my family physically and emotionally. He had me move away from any connections from my former life.
Your story and most of ours have certain characteristics that resonate the same. Like Matt said, same church, different pew. Allow us to companion you on your journey out, and remember, you are a beautiful person. You will be stronger because of this, and you are loved.

Elizabeth,

Yeah, knowing when to be confrontational with a person that may possibly be seeking to invade your boundaries or to just shrug it off can be a confusing decision to make.

When you’re a psychologically, conscience driven, empathetic person I think you’re also very understanding and not easily irritated by subtle suspicious behavior which could be interpreted as callousness.

I was that way, once upon a time, but like Sabrina wrote…”Dont allow others to take advantage even in small, seemingly harmless situations. I have now found that allowing even small inconsiderate actions conditions us to not take a stand on larger issues and will slowly erode the boundaries we hold so precious”…..I’m now super vigilant in regards to even supposed minor boundary invasions and/or dismissive behavior towards my verbalized justified grievances.

I just won’t take any chit from anyone, any longer regardless if their family, friends, acquaintances or new men in my life.

Why should I? Why should we? We need positive, good, decent, kind, considerate people in our lives at our invitations not predators or even selfish, immature creeps!

I’m at a particular awesome stage in my life where my confidence is the highest its ever been, ditto my self-respect and dignity, and I would consider myself indepedent personified.

Like you, I’m a wee bit of a hermit, a content introvert serene with oodles of solitude. I really don’t need social interractions but if I feel I’ve been caving for too long, I go out among the masses and have a stellar time meeting and greeting, chatting and sharing with others.

I’m not bragging about how self contained I am or how strong I am; my whole life has been a struggle to find out who the hell I am and to overcome such horrible feelings of self loathing and feeling unlovable.

I wonder if I never was to know about the realistic implications of personality disorders, the truth of humanoid predators and the devastating effect they have caused me over the years….would I still be in a state of naivete and confusion?

Still believing that I’m to blame for everything? That I deserve exactly what I deserve?

Shudder…..not a nice thought. Uh-uh. Too late to go back now and I wouldn’t even want to.

I thank the Lord every day for steering me in the accurate, right direction in a solid effort to learn, educate and protect myself from evil people.

Elizabeth

“Now that I think back on it, I realize that I did tell both the N and the S what I objected to quite early. They both ignored my preferences.”

Wow did this statement ever hit home!!! Here is the thing — I stated things I objected to quite early…in fact I was proud of myself for saying and sharing the kind of person I am and the kind of person I was looking for (damnitall it had to be with a BAD MAN who i gave all kind of info to in order to lure me in LOL ) but again here is the thing— ONCE MY PREFERENCES WERE IGNORED – I didnt do much of self-anything (self-love, self-protect, self-respect) … I shrugged it off, made up an excuse, as EC says I was a Patsy of sorts… But EC you said you should have been looking for the next red flag…NOT SO FOR ME NOW, there are no staying in it for the next red flag – ONE AND DONE !!

There is no confronting. There is accepting now. Simply accepting that the person is not a good fit for me in my life simply by their lack of respect or poor choices or making me feel uncomfortable etc. etc. Stop. Change direction. Its so cool. Its empowering to know I have the ability to not get involved or sucked in or lured – because I follow the red flag system. There isnt so much “speaking up” or “confronting” its more of — stop. change direction. fade…

When dealing with everyday people or family friends I speak up if I feel taken advantage of now or disrespected. But with new acquaintances, I weed out based upon RFS.. Red Flag System.

Jane – I like what you said…learn, educate and protect myself from evil people. Effortlessly is the goal!!!

Holysaltwater — Amen to that spellchecker!!!!! Although I sometimes actually laugh at myself for being a bit to lazy to go back and proofread and then kick myself for not doing so! Esp. since Im trying to teach my son to do that and he is in 2nd grade! LOL

LearnedtheLesson:

“there are no staying in it for the next red flag – ONE AND DONE !!”

You’re entitled to this stance. You’ve been through some rough times. I may get there some day.

Right now I’m just not there.

I don’t expect people to be perfect. “Making a reasonable effort” is good enough for me. I’d have missed out on a lot of good friendships if I rejected people over the first mistake.

I do have a few acquaintances I consider more than a little pushy. I distance myself, ’cause I know they’ll run over me if I don’t. That doesn’t mean I won’t deal with them – carefully. Most of them are really hard working and clean living people with “a cause”. They’ll rope me into giving time I owe myself and my family, without a smidgen of guilt. After all, it’s for the CAUSE!

The reason we are so devestated by psychopaths is because of our great capacity to LOVE. Without LOVE, there can be no pain.

Just be glad you FEEL something, even if it is overwhelming pain. Time will ease your pain.

As far as I am concerned, to feel nothing is the greatest devestation of all.

God did not promise an easy journey, but HE did promise a happy ending!!!

Rosa-

They “want to do” whatever is opposite of the victims desires/wishes. It’sall about control and opposition and manipulation.

PS

Suspect a psycho? Weigh them!

Sign-up now to get my latest newsletter- free.

This issue I am writing about body mass index as a red flag for psychopathy and/or narcissim!

sign up here:
http://holywatersalt.blogspot.com/

Elizabeth –

Thanks for reminding me I can get carried away with that stance…and its only with potential suitors…not with family and friends!!

I did end a life long friendship this past October with a female friend who always seemed to put be down and accuse me of not making enough of an effort to get together – or who always was involved in drama and me bailing her out in so many ways (not financially) but just draining me of my personal space and time to help her — only to find her right back where she was again. I just faded after so many years…I just faded…answered her frantic texts less and less or just gave nice few word answers… I found that she would leave me feeling so badly about myself – yet all I did was be there for her when I could – and it was never enough. I miss her because we had so much history together – and if she ever changes her ways and treats me with respect I will give her my friendship again. But I just decided the friendship was borderline abusive in that she was always lashing out at me for not calling her back right away or not helping her enough. I use to stare at the phone as she was saying these thing is total disbelief!!!

But again thanks for the reminder that we all find our sense of coping and dealing and handling others and do whats best for us. If I dont do one and done with some Im afraid Ill be lured back in…so its my protectiveness right now! Thanks EC!!!

Eljzabeth Conley:

“Now that I think back on it, I realize that I did tell both the N and the S what I objected to quite early. They both ignored my preferences. Now I see that was a warning sign I should have taken very seriously. Instead of simply shrugging my shoulders and concluding the matter was inconsequential, I should have started watching for the next warning sign. There were plenty, but I was a patsy.”

So true. Only in my case, I should have taken it as a waring sign when S ignored my preferences on the BIG things. Around month 4 I thought S and I were fairly serious about each other — or so I thought at the time. S informed me, right after I had taken him on a spectacular night out at the Cafe Carlyle, that he wouldn’t be available the following weekend because he was going to a party at his ex’s and I wasn’t invited.

I told him that I viewed us as a couple and I didn’t want him going there without since I didn’t think it was good for us, as a couple, for him to go to that party. Needless to say, he went. And fool that I was, I made yet another allowance for him – instead of putting myself on guard for the next red flag.

Like you, I don’t want to nitpick, and I pick my fights carefully based on the importance the person has in my life and the importance of the issue to me. But, I will never again tolerate a lack of respect toward me and my wishes on the magnitude that S demonstrated toward me.

By the way, I thought you’d be interested. I just came back from lunch with the guy whom I met through S. I had a great time — he paid. But, seriously, it was a really nice lunch. He’s a really interesting guy and great conversationalist. And know what? S wasn’t mentioned once. By either of us. Kind of amazing considering the amount of oxygen S consumed in both our lives.

So much wisdom in everyone’s response to Marsha.

Marsha – Take some comfort in what Elizabeth said about the financial devastation. I am so reeling from my own, and the emotional still ongoing, that I just re-read Donna’s story to appreciate that I too got off “light” — about $25,000 over the past few months and about $50K before. But all the time, travel in last few years that I, or anybody, could make serious money, has left me penniless. Never knew this recession was coming.

The hurt is beyond belief. Mine did this too during our last time together: He would spend nights upon nights sleeping on the couch (by choice). Mine said he was sick but he had no real symptoms, I thought it was serious, like leukemia or something, so when he got well, I got suspicious. Then his OW told me, he sent her pictures and texts about his performance, while he socked it to me for another several thousand dollar “bail out.” Hadn’t told her about that part. For her, I just happened to be in town and he just couldn’t get out of it.

That one thing was what sent me to this site, and out of the attachment, not a relationship. Like yours “It was as though all he cared about was the money that I was paying and the plans for the short sale” — I supported him since we “reconciled” and he was going for more, a new car, a new business, that of course I would earn millions back from as an owner, just a few thousand to get it started. Must have been exactly what he must have told the folks I had to pay back so they would not press charges.

Just today, I was talking to a friend about what Sabrina said about “Don’t allow others to take advantage even in small, seemingly harmless situations.” That’s the ticket! Once someone sees that you are willing to help them out with money, free work, whatever, once they can go to the well, they will go again and again and again and it will always be for more.

I must have told him 20 times to respect the word “No” when he asked me and not keep coming back for the same thing. During this last debacle, I had at one point broken it off. A late night, long talk, and we were back on, and the very next day he sent me an ad about the same car that triggered something in me that it was not right. I was outraged that with all the debt he had piled on me, he would even ask for anything else, and told him. Did not take him 24 hours to ask again.

Elizabeth has this right that:

Normal people heed small requests for courtesy, even if the particular issue isn’t something they consider important. It’s the cluster Bs who ride roughshod over other people’s concerns.

Also told him over and over that I did not like having to pay for things, that it made me feel ugly and used. It was always “the last time” — for years.

Red Flags: invading boundaries, wanting to move in quick, asking for money. That’s my clue to move on.

Marsha: I’m glad you got out of the relationship, I will learn from your lesson, a lot of the same mistakes I have made myself in the past, especially making excuses for them. Thank you very much for sharing what is such a painful part of your life.

Why does the psychopath want to sleep in a different bed? I have never experienced that one.

What is their purpose for doing that?

How do they rationalize it?

Rosa:

Mine didn’t sleep in a separate bed — at least when he was with me. OF course, he withheld sex so much that I was climbing walls. I’ve discussed this ad nauseum with my shrink and he told me that when the sex goes out of a relationship, it is headed for the tank. At a minimum, when the sex. At a minimum, when the sex decreases, it is pretty much a sure sign that your partner is cheating on you.

Empty bed, no sex, it still gets you to the same place with an S — that they are cheating on you and using sex, or the lack thereof, as a means to control you. If your instincts are telling you that your S is cheating, your instincts are probably 100 percent right.

No matter if the S claims that you are making too many sexual demands on them and that’s why they are sleeping on the sofa or not putting out. No matter if the S claims he is ill — cancer, leukemia, or the possiblity of a stroke (mine used to claim he couldn’t have sex because of the anti-hypertension drugs. Right.), No matter what an S’s excuse, denying sex is all about their controlling us.

WOW!!

I am seeing this dynamic in someone else’s relationship.

Do I tell the person who is being controlled what is going on, or let them figure it out on their own?

I do not feel comfortable getting into other people’s sex lives.

I think I will just let that huge, Communist-size RED FLAG blow until someone figures it out.

Should not take too long, anyway.

Marsha, your story is like my “deja vu”
Your “S” filed for bankrupcy after you move out..mine went bankrupcy before he moved in with me. The same way I was supporting him financially while he was in my house.
Your’s had an ex-girlfriend as a back up plan…mine had two ex-girlfriends as his back up plan.
Mine didn’t sleep on the sofa but use to cover himself up with the blanked when in bed with me and torn to the other side to avoid me to touch him.
The silence….Oh I know this one too…No talking for like days.
Even the workout. At the end of the relationship he started to go to gym and do weights and improve his muscles to charm another victim.
But it is OK. At the end we’re the ones laughing.
They are failed lives.

changedforever:

The similarities in our stories always make me think of Yogi Berra’s old saying “It’s vuja de” (deja vu all over again).

“By the way, I thought you’d be interested. I just came back from lunch with the guy whom I met through S. I had a great time he paid. But, seriously, it was a really nice lunch. He’s a really interesting guy and great conversationalist. And know what? S wasn’t mentioned once. By either of us. Kind of amazing considering the amount of oxygen S consumed in both our lives.”

I’m happy for you both. You deserve a good time and this new relationship, whether serious or just friendly.

JaneSmith,

It sounds like you’re in a good place right now. I rather hope to have a bit more time to myself later in life. It’s very renewing. I read somewhere that if people wear you out, you’re and introvert. If they energize you, you’re an extrovert. Sounds like you and I are both introverts. Even before I heard that definition, I used to say “I love humanity, but people exhaust me!”

I’m an introvert stuck in an extravert’s roll, at least for a little while longer. While I’m homeschooling, it’s important I network with other homeschool families so my kids can have a good social life. It’s getting easier. I’ve lived in the same place for about 8 years, and I’m starting to have a comfortable number of mutually respectful relationships of all kinds. It feels good.

My encounter with the S drove home how dangerous my easy going temperament can be. I am trying to be assertive, but I want to be reasonably forgiving of unintended slights as well. I hope I can find a balance.

“Your “S” filed for bankrupcy after you move out..mine went bankrupcy before he moved in with me. The same way I was supporting him financially while he was in my house.”

Interesting that financial irresponsibility is also a “big red flag”. Even Dr. Hare talk about this issue and how most fit this MO. We worry and think about how we are doing to pay this bill or that one, but I guess they just think about how to get someone else to pay for it. And OMG, how we will pay for it. 🙁

James:

“We worry and think about how we are doing to pay this bill or that one, but I guess they just think about how to get someone else to pay for it. And OMG, how we will pay for it.”

That was me — the human ATM. And by the end of our “relationship” I hadn’t just taken a financial battering, but an emotinal one as well.

When I met S, he had something like 15 creditor judgments againt him — everyone from department stores, on to the IRS and –brace yourself for this — SALLIE MAE. Since Sallie Mae will do anything to keep a student loan borrower out of default, it gives you an idea of how far he pushed them. And the judgments went back almost 20 years — from the time he graduated from college.

When we were together, I paid for every damned thing — including paying his rent for 3 months. When I finally decided BASTA — he was trying to get 10 grand out of me? Why because his locks had been changed that day because — he hadn’ paid the damned rent from the time I brought him current, 7 months earlier.

Isn’t keeping a roof over your head life lesson #1? Apparently not for sociopaths.

Hi,

I am new to the blog. I am going through a divorce from a man, a sociopath, that I was only married to for six weeks before going to see an attorney. Before we married, he was the most affectionate man. Charming, loving, and wonderful to my family. Everyone said that they were so glad that I had finally found my “soulmate”. I am almost 53 and had been in an abusive marriage for 24 years. I had a relationship with a man after my divorce who was only after my money (another sociopath)
Then I met Ken. He was the perfect man for me, or so I thought. He had taken a job that is four hours away from my job and family, and I gave all of that up to be with him. He had the real estate agent show us million dollar homes but I insisted on our not being house poor and found a beautiful home on acreage for a whole lot less. After signing the contract, everything was fine until he told me in an email that he didn’t have the twenty percent downpayment needed for the loan. He asked my mother to let him “borrow” the money
assuring her that he and I would pay her back. He signed a Promissorry Note and a Prenupt. that would supposedly protect me and my mother should Ken and I separate.
He borrowed $63,000 from my mother and I put $5,000 down for earnest money. It never entered my naive mind that the love of my life was a con artist, a narcissistic sociopath who was about to destroy my life that was still fragile from the pain I had just gone through. We married at my parent’s home and went back to Ken’s that night. I slept alone for the first three nights while he fell asleep on the couch. It was as though a switch was flipped. He began telling me things to make me feel that wasn’t acceptable and was trying to destroy the self esteem that I had left. There was no love, no sex, just insults, and he did things that I knew he was doing to make me feel crazy. One day just six weeks into our marriage, my mother called and told me that Ken had been writing emails to a former girlfriend. She forwarded them to my mom and brother. They found out about her from Ken’s ex. It turns out that he emailed her on the day he proposed, professing his love for her and saying that he was done with me. He emailed her the whole time we dated and the worst one was on our wedding night when he was supposed to be with me!
Now, after almost a year of fighting to get the house in my name only and not succeeding, my house is in foreclosure.
The legal system is not working on my behalf. Ken has not made a payment since last July and had a restraining order on me where I couldn’t even make a payment.
I am going to lose $68,000 because I did pay my mother back when my other house sold. Between my ex and Ken I have nothing. What good are Settlement agreements and Prenuptial Agreements?
He is making six figures at a job that he got fraudulently. He said that he had two degrees in engineering and he has none.
The company didn’t bother to check, but I did. He never attended either school.
I have to say that had I stayed with him much longer, I doubt that I would be sitting here typing this very long letter because
I found out that he wanted to make me so depressed that I would kill myself, or that he would kill me and make it look like a suicide. I am glad to be away from him but the thoughts of him haunt me everyday and the fact that the money that I worked so hard for is gone because of a flawed judicial system, makes it hard for me to recover. I don’t know if I will ever be able to trust again.

jfog1: Hi. Welcome to LF! Ken sounds horrible, a complete predator, I’m so sorry you went through all that, OMG! “As though a switch was flipped” on your wedding night, jeez. I am impressed that you found the strength to fight for the house, sorry you are going into foreclosure, I probably would have been curled up like a ball for a year. I don’t know if I will ever be able to trust again either… hope you’ll stick around and maybe we can all figure it out together.

2 comments

when i fall asleep on the couch, i appreciate someone waking me and helping me to be…..whenever he would fall asleep, if i tried to kindly wake him and help him to be, it was world war 3……….leave him on the couch!!! that was totally backwards for me and i felt it was inconsiderate to do so……….i found out he hasnt filed taxes in around 8 yrs….and would buy things on credit cards and never pay them……all secrets of course

second, frequently we mention movies here depicting true sociopathic behavior….i just rewatched dangerous liasions with glenn close and john malkovich and michelle pfeiffer…………glenn close comes right out of a textbook……should be required class instruction..and john malkovitch as well, although with his last breath ? remorse or revenge or both……..must see

Jfog1:

Welcome….I am sorry but glad your here! Terrible story of deceit and betrayal, but typical sociopathic behaviors.
I too am in foreclosure….the house was due to auction today, but they postponed it until june.
Dig up your determination…..and get the get on. You will have to call on your strength and faith to find your way through the ‘fog’. You CAN and WILL do it, inspite of all his nastyness. Find your inner Pit bull girl and go clamp down on your business affairs.
We are here…you will find lot’s of similar journeys and a path to healing.
Keep your spirit high!!!!

Matt:

“Isn’t keeping a roof over your head life lesson #1? Apparently not for sociopaths.”

Yes it is….but only if someone else is willing to provide it.

Matt:

The S wanted sex the first night I got out of hospital with stroked and disection. My main artery feeding my brain was not functioning and I was on all sorts of meds and blood thinners and all he wanted was sex? WTF was I thinking…I appeased him. I was told no strenuous activity…..but I wanted to keep him happy! Oh, yeah….he did stop once in a while to ask…..are you okay?
He was so concerned and in tears that he could lose me!
(As he had his fingers crossed behind his back).

jfog1 –

Welcome. You are in the right place. The sex is marvelous until they get us, and then it’s withheld.

OMG, mine wanted me to borrow from my family too, and his OW, but we did not. I borrowed from a friend, at his insistence, who I just paid back yesterday. God provides. Today I got an email from a client’s mother to take another retainer off her credit card. Give and thou shalt receive. I did right. The woman is a millionaire who could have lived without my repay, but I did right.

One wonderful thing about this site is that it help us see that the O-so special someone, the S who had us thinking he/she was our soulmate, the only one who understands, is just another statistic, another predator. Just like all the other S/P’s who have bilked another blogger.

This really helps! Because he will scream “betrayal” and all that, when he is only just another predator and we his prey.

I too worried about how to pay the bills. I paid his and let mine go, and I’m a month behind on the mortgage and truck. I’ll get it.

With them out of the way we can catch up, especially with the economy, creditors are giving people time. You don’t have to tell them you were involved with and S, just a little economic/recession problem. It can be worked out, even the foreclosure. There is a govt program, but that scares me, they will take your place in a few years if you cannot make the payments.

Talk to a credit counselor, an attorney.

Matt,

“I’ve discussed this ad nauseum with my shrink and he told me that when the sex goes out of a relationship, it is headed for the tank. At a minimum, when the sex. At a minimum, when the sex decreases, it is pretty much a sure sign that your partner is cheating on you.”

Whoa folks, don’t take what this shrink says as universally true.

Particularly as people hit 35+, sex drive can go flat from time to time. People who are juggling work, child rearing and home maintenance can have little or nothing left at the end of the day. Throw in a medical condition, or extra source of stress, and your partner’s sudden drop in sex drive may be a totally innocent matter.

I agree that a drop in sex drive is a sign of trouble, but one shouldn’t assume that the problem is the end of the relationship. Maybe your partner needs a good night’s sleep, a stress free weekend, or a medical checkup.

My parent’s are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary this year. I’m celebrating my 26th. I know that of which I speak. “Jumping to conclusions” is not a healthful exercise plan. Settle down and do a bit of slow, patient investigating before you give an already exhausted and stressed out partner a hard time over their lackluster performance in bed.

Most of us can’t be in top form consistantly. Life happens.

Suggestions for the sexually fizzled:

Plan to do NOTHING this weekend. (Paper plates and microwave casseroles figure prominently into this plan.)

Throw 4 green marbles into the backyard and tell the kids they can’t come inside ’til they find all 5.

Let the grass grow past your knees. The city will ticket you several times before they levy a fine. (Yep, I’m THAT neighbor!)

Take showers together a 3 in the afternoon on Sunday in a candlelit bathroom with scented soap on a rope and good music. Worst case scenario: you’ll emerge giggling from the bedroom 2 hours later to find your kids gamely entertaining the pastor and his wife in the parlor. This can be lived down…

eventually.

Take a few Wednesdays off from work. Call them mental health days. If anyone asks, “I woulda come into work Wednesday, but the voices said ‘Stay home and clean the guns.'”

Go to the doctor. Swallow your pride and tell him you’ve got a problem, and you’re not leaving without a solution. It will be OK. They’ve heard this before. If you come right out and say it, it’ll save a lot of beating around the bush!

Run away for an overnighter at a local hotel. This works very well if you travel a bit and have a lot of “points” with a major hotel chain. Don’t save ’em up for some big deal event, spend them on your marriage when you’re not traveling, just a few nights at a time. This investment pays amazing dividends.

Wake up early, drink your coffee, eat your breakfast, brush your teeth and go back to bed. Sometimes timing is everything.

Blessings folks!

Elizabeth,

“Oddly, speaking up over little things has been rewarding. Normal people have been more considerate after being subtly warned that I would police boundaries.”

Thank you so much for this!! This very issue has worried me and I’m glad to hear how you found this worked out. One of my fears has been tthat I will be too “nit-pickey”. And my ex-N always accused me of being to “sensitive”. He would say, “lighten up Mylar”. (did I spell that right?)

He is the only man I’ve ever had a relationship with, and we were married for 34 years. I left 3 years ago, and I’ve been very happily single. ever since. I don’t plan another relationship, but if I met a normal man and a friendship started I would be warily willing to consider.

Thanks again!

I’ll feel better now about speaking up

jfog1:

“He is making six figures at a job that he got fraudulently. He said that he had two degrees in engineering and he has none.
The company didn’t bother to check, but I did. He never attended either school.”

This is called leverage. Threaten to expose him to his employers unless he ponies up the money he owes you and your mother. You have nothing to lose.

Dear Jfog, Welcome to LF, I too am glad you are here. Stay around a while and read as much as you can of the archived articles (you can find them on the left listed by month) each one is a gem to help us learn about them, and learn about ourselves. Sorry, though, that you “qualify” for our “club.”

EC: “the voices told me to stay home and clean the guns” ROTFLMAO X 1000!!!!!! You crack me up woman!!!!! My gosh, have I rubbed off that much on the LF bloggers! I almost wish I had a job to call in for a day off with that line!!!! A great one!!!! Wish I had thought of that one!!!

First, Welcome jfrog! And thank you for sharing your story.

““I’ve discussed this ad nauseum with my shrink and he told me that when the sex goes out of a relationship, it is headed for the tank. At a minimum, when the sex. At a minimum, when the sex decreases, it is pretty much a sure sign that your partner is cheating on you.—

Elizabeth Conley,

“People who are juggling work, child rearing and home maintenance can have little or nothing left at the end of the day. Throw in a medical condition, or extra source of stress, and your partner’s sudden drop in sex drive may be a totally innocent matter.”

This does work and is true for normal people and more so for single parents. Stress and money issues top with a medical and/or a psychological issue like PTSD will affect our sexual drives. But let’s go back and think about our s/p.

Like “juggling work”. Most don’t work and/or are “between” jobs.

“Child rearing”. Well most spend little or no time on this issue plus their children are more or less just a another source of supply for them and/or these children are simply put on the back burner until the s/p can use them for something. Child rearing, only if it serves their purpose.

“home maintenance” Most s/p put nothing into the home business or financial well being of our lives.

My point is that the only stress I see most s/p have in their lives is who is going to pay for their bills next meal and a place to live. So in affect, these people shouldn’t have any real problems when it comes to sex which is what they really do anyway, they just don’t have sex with us being too busy setting up that “next meal ticket” by having sex with them. Try talking about a lack of sex in a relationships with a s/p, but I for one would get ready for a WHOLE LOT of PROJECTIONS aim right back at you. I agree with Matt that if one does have a relationship with any s/p sex is a red flag and form of control.

I know for me sex was used many times to manipulate me to do and/or get something she wanted. I experienced a lack of sex intimacy and the “cold shoulder” many times throughout my toxic relationship with my ex. Not once in 17 years did my ex ever initiate sex with me, not once! I wonder if these people even “need” sex or if it’s just another form of manipulation and control? Normal people have a healthy normal sex drive but s/p don’t I mean ether they are oversexed or have little or no interest in sex after the “honeymoon stage is over.

JFog,

You are right, we are very lucky you alive, healthy and here to share your story with us. I am glad you found LF…it will help you in ways you cant begin to imagine… I especially like to read old articles and posts.

I would not have thought some of us here could have ever endured or continued on to find and create a better life, socio-free. But it is absolutely possible and quite possibly the turning point to my healing journey and recreating my life again or truly wanting to…began when I stumbled across LF.

God bless you and protect you. Im glad you are finally free.

If I may add, the sex issue was a big red flag in the relationship I (unfortunately) shared with the s for 7 years.

He was sex crazed in the 1st year I was with him. He was constantly coming on, even when I was sick. 3 times a day and such. I felt flattered, but sometimes a bit too much. For me 4-5 times a week is plenty, especially back then at age 22 I was a bit more “frisky” and unsure of my own wants and needs.

As soon as I moved in with the s, after 6 months of dating him, sex was not appealing to him. He no longer initiated, was kinda put out by it. He was always sort of robot like, but he became even more so. He treated having sex like a chore.

When I tried talking about it, he denied it, deflected it and got annoyed by it. He tried telling me I was the one with the problem. He would say “sex is over-rated” and “well, it cannot be always the honeymoon, right?” then he would walk out of the room.

I felt extremly confused by this change, it started eroding my self worth as a sexual being.

Greenfern,

If only we knew if was about them…them….them….

If only we knew to ACT ON THAT RED FLAG! And GET OUT AND GET ON WITH OUR LIVES WITH OTHER HEALTHY PROSPECTS IN THE ROMANCE DEPARTMENT!!

If only we knew they were mostly ALL TALK, or just MIRRORING US (explains the intense sexual feelings we had with them)…if only we knew.

BUT NOW WE DO!!! NOW WE KNOW!! I ONCE TOLD HIM I TOTALLY COULD RELATE TO LORRAINE BOBBIT – WHEN A GUY MAKES YOU THAT ANGRY AND CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED – SOMETIMES I DO SAY KUDOS OR TOWANDA TO THAT WOMAN! (FORGIVE ME, BUT I DO!!) LOL

What she did was probably wrong…lol…but we are doing…

LETTING GO, MOVING ON…is the true TOWANDA for us!!

James,

I feel for you. I watched the S play woman after woman, having a brief few sexual encounters with each, then devaluing and discarding them almost instantly thereafter. That was his pattern.

Now admittedly, I possess an UNDER-active imagination when it comes to other people’s sex lives, but I thought the N was the most asexual creature I’d ever encountered. He apparently reproduced at least twice, and I considered that to be one the universe’s greatest mysteries. I found his hysterical misogynistic-church-cult fear of being alone with women rip-snortin’ hilarious. What a loon!

All I wish to convey is that it’s normal to have dry spells in a HEALTHY relationship. Suspecting infidelity or whining of neglect only ramps up the stress for an already anxious partner. Let’s not let our S/P/N encounters ruin us for life.

It surprises me sometimes how these sociopaths exhibit the same behaviors.
Mine was not affectionate.
He was seeing at least two of his godson’s mothers at the same time we were dating.
Everything was secretive.
He borrowed money that will never be repaid.
He is irresponsible with his finances and blames others for the problems that he has.
He LIED all the time.

You were lucky to get out of the situation especially not marrying the guy.
These sociopaths use charm to get what they want. They don’t care about the consequences of their actions. Eventually their true natures come out and the beast is exposed.

In healthy relationships the communication is just different. There are significantly more open and honest conversations about everything…From money to sex to whatever.

They dont say “oh well, cant have the honeymoon last forever… or sex is overrated … or snide remarks…they dont embarrass you or put you down or put you off or be sneaky with others…

they say things like, Im really stressed right now or you know they are having some bad days because they are a part of your life and you really do know them…its just a whole different ball park when you are with a healthy non-toxic person.

Yes sexlife can slow down, and pick up again based on whats going on in individuals lives and communication makes all the difference in the world..but with toxic SNP there is no communication just control or deceitful or painful communication that leaves you staring at the ceiling…

RED FLAG. STOP. GET UP. GET OUT. GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE…SEXLIFE INCLUDED!!!!

I agree about the dry spells in normal relationships too. There are times when there are just too many things going on, physically, emotionally and it can take toll on the relationship. Sex can be also a difficult topic to discuss with a partner without evoking bad feelings. I think in most relationships sex drives are not equally strong, needs can be different. Circumstances that affect the drive and need can change too.
But in the other hand when sex (or lack of) is used as a leverage or gas-lighting, to cause anguish without reason, becomes part of the arsenal of the s. The unwillingness to discuss, deflection of questions is how the s unroots stability in their partners.

Send this to a friend