Editor’s note: On April 15, 2009, we posted “Bob’s” story—Leaning on his family while battling his wife. Well, the battle continues. Bob is asking the Lovefraud community for suggestions.
I recently received the email below from my P ex-wife and wanted to share it with your readers. I would like someone to analyze this to get some insight and commentary on this situation. It is so reminiscent of what I have read on Lovefraud.com and in books and comes really without surprise; it just surprises me of the lengths she will go to try to falsely trash me in an effort to obtain custody of our kids. The allegations are either fabricated or extremely exaggerated. She has a knack for manipulating people to write letters for her and support her. She has no fear of me and really no fear that I will endanger our kids; she knows I would never hurt them. This is all blowing smoke, but there is motive.
A quick background: Post-divorce with joint custody, she moved out of state to be with her lover and took me to court to move the kids with her. Her motion was denied and the kids still live with me in my state during the school year, but she moved regardless. Her child support to me was tripled by the court order, and that has angered her. She lies to my kids about the circumstances of her move and casts blame at me for us being so far apart geographically.
During the custodial evaluation, up to the hearing and after the order was handed down she has been on a vigorous campaign to portray me as angry and hostile towards her. Apparently this is the only way she could convince the courts to give her custody. She stopped paying me for children’s expenses after the court order was received, attempting to elicit angry emails from me. That was over a year ago and this continues to this day, even after I took her to court this year to force payment of children’s expenses. After that court order, she still refuses to pay me what is legitimately owed. She is very angry and vindictive, but she conceals it from others very well.
Note, I have been to her home on only three occasions to drop off or pick up my kids and she lives over 1,000 miles from me. She travels to my state with regularity to pick up and drop off the kids at my home without any fear of me. The characterizations of me”—hostile, angry, vindictive, inconsistent, unbalanced, unstable, threatening, harassing, bi-polar—”are a common theme in her emails.
Bob:
I have just returned from a meeting with local law enforcement. I met with them because I fear for my safety and the safety of our children. Your actions, writings and overall demeanor are unstable, inconsistent, vindictive, and threatening.
During this discussion, I shared the following:
1) Our guidance from the Court.
2) years of correspondence between Bob and me, highlighting particularly the exchanges that were most hostile, threatening and vindictive.
3) A tape of Bob’s wire tapping of my phone while I lived in (city removed).
4) Several documents that prove Bob’s attempts to hack into my bank accounts, my AT&T account, my email account and one credit card account.
5) Data I have collected through Bob’s emails of him stalking me, including one today where he has details of my flight information that I did not provide to him. There are several other emails that confirm this pattern of behavior.
6) A written statement from the Summer Camp employee that he interrogated in August, complete with her statement that he appeared unstable and made her uncomfortable. She also confirms that he explicitly told her that he had sole custody of the children and that I was not allowed to make the decision I had made when enrolling him in his summer activities.
7) Evidence suggesting Bob’s taping of the children’s and my conversations.
I agreed that I would follow up this information with an opinion from my therapist, since she has been privy to the daily deluge of drama and interactions and has formed some opinions, based upon what she has read.
The officer confirms that there are red flags in this situation that do not need to be ignored. His suggestion is that I state first my concerns in writing directly to you. I am once again asking you to stop this harassment and contemptible behavior immediately. If you continue, I will have no choice but to proceed with the process of highlighting these situations and writings to the proper authorities and to seek protection for myself and our children.
This is not a threat and these are not games. Your anger, vindictiveness, and nonacceptance of the rules we were given have resulted in harassing and predatory behaviors which are at a minimum, disturbing and at the extreme, dangerous.
Our community saw a triple murder within the last two months at the hand of their father, a white-collar banking manager. The background and circumstances of this heinous crime were eerily similar to our past two years. I will no longer take the chances of what your volatility, instability or hostility might lead to.
Angie
Bob,
you do have to give up the fight….
Unless these guys are doing drugs in front of your kids or other illegal behavior, you got to let it go. If you think there are “marks” from abuse go to the hospital. This kind of harm is your duty to protect them.
They can try to alienate you from your kids and do all kinds of other things you would frown upon. BUT you can’t change that.
Your best defense is to have a great relationship with your kids and FORGET about their mother and her constant drama. That is HER thing. It doesn’t have to be YOUR thing.
As far as your oldest son if this is her favorite child and the one showing the most problems….I would keep an eye out on that. This might escalate.
You should read the book “Just Like His Father” and even though the “title” of this book doesn’t fit your situation, it has many insights to parenting the at risk child.
And I am here to tell you that what works for the average child does NOT work when parenting an at risk child.
My children have seen a therapist for close to two years. Most of the visits entail my wife and I without the boys present discussing our parenting styles/skills and how do deal with the P. Unfortanately, the P coached the oldest that he was seeing the therapist as punishment for his behavior rather than to help him dealing with his feelings of his mother moving away, so he clammed up and would not talk with the therapist.
Following the custody order, the P attempted to fire both the parenting consultant and the therapist. Fortunately, our J&D and court order were tight enough that she could not do that unilaterally. The P knows that these professionals know what she is doing, so wanted to start with “fresh, new professionals”. I discard those who know what she is up to, and seek new people to influence. I didn’t work, but the P was successful at the getting the oldest to see a new therapist. Fortunately, this therapist is very bright as well. And his visits with her are very helpful in behavior in our household, more respect for the adults in the household, more responsibility and a bit nicer to his brothers. But I do beleive that the older is becoming a P as well. He has been brainwashed. I only pray that he will figure her out someday.
Bob:
The reality is…..
If she ever went to the police they would advise her to file for a TPO……
Most likely….she did not. You would know about it.
If she was that scared of you, she would have NO contact with you.
She stills ignites the fires.
She still attempts and is successful at yanking your chain through emails.
YOU have to be the one to rise above it all……and expect that your relationship with the oldest ‘golden child’ will be effected. Continue to rise above.
The kids will evolve IN this situation AND just being kids….don’t confuse the two….it’s a hard one.
Just remain the rock NO MATTER WHAT. Do not ever give the oldest any idea that you go along wiht his mothers favortisms….dont acknowledge it.
ANd alwyas keep in mind…..you can only control yourself!
Good luck….
XXOO
EB
Dear Bob,
I hurt for you that you must endure this because of your x, and that your kids must endure this constant chaos.
It makes life difficult for your wife and you, but also for the other children and even for the “golden boy.” I am glad that you have them in therapy, and that you are learning about how to deal with your x and her crap.
I know how it is to have one child that is the “problem child” and it takes time away from the other kids in your effort to take care of the needs of all your children. Unfortunately, one of mine turned out to BE a P, like his grandfathers on both side. There is a genetic component as well as environmental.
I do strongly suggest you go to Dr. Leedom’s site and read her books about raising the at risk child. She has PERSONAL experience with this plus the fact that she is a very caring professional (M. D.)
I repeat what everyone else has said, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT on the serious and proveable things, and let the rest slide. As close to NC as you can get. As for your son (the golden child) saying what he has been told by his mother, about your wife and so on, I would just suggest that you say to him “Son, Sue is my WIFE, and I love her, and she lives in the house with us and she cooks for and does your laundry, etc., I will respect her and I EXPECT YOU to respect her. Period.” Then when he shows disrespect to her (as he did in the back seat) I would put him in TIME OUT or whatever sanction you use with him for disrespectful behavior. Just make it clear to him that there are CONSEQUENCES for disrespectful behavior toward your wife. (or you, or a teacher or whomeever he acts disrespectful to.) He doesn’t have to like your wife or anyone, but none-the-less I think he should be compelled to act respectful to them in spite of the provocations of his mother to act otherwise. If worse comes to worse and you absolutely cannot control him, or he continues to bully your other children, making life misrable for them, send him to live with his mother—my guess is that he might be glad to get back to your house quite quickly after livign with his mother for a while.
It is a pickle and a half to have one child that makes the lives of the other child(ren) miserable. Having to “choose” between your children, I’ve been in that position, and I did not do (in retrospect) what I should have done which was toss out the trouble maker in favor of the rest of the family. Sometimes, with some kids, there is a no-win situation, you can’t save the one, even by “sacrificing” the others and you can end up “losing” all of them. I don’t mean to sound negative, and I’m not sure how old this child is or what his other problems are (emotional and/or genetic or medical or psychological) but I have come to the hard conclusion that sometimes ONE child or one person can ruin an entire family when without them the unit could prosper, but with them in the mix, the while thing blows up like a bomb!
God Bless you and your wife, and your kids, Bob. I know you have a “hard row to hoe.”
3+ year post divorce, 2+ years since P moved away, 1+ years since custody order, it just won’t end!
The P had not communicated with me since Wednesday, no information on exchange times, kids clothes, etc. I communicated this with the parenting consultant. His response was he has been trying to get a ahold of her, and that he is really unhappy with landscaper’s email to me. So unhappy he contemplated directing that she and the boys don’t stay at his home or be with him, or even revoking her parenting time.
So last night I take my boys’ overnight bags to my youngest’s gymnastics session where the P and my boys would be. The landscaper and his daughter where there inside with the P. I didn’t go inside, one of my boys came outside and helped transfer bags. No engagements, which I am sure is what they wanted. He was their either to intimidate me, or to show someone that she really is in fear of me and needs protection. Either way, she has him bamboozled.
I am sure landscaper’s children are bitching about me to my kids based upon what landscaper has shared with them. Truly a sad state of affairs.
Bob,
Don’t think of what your no-contact policy as giving up, wimping out or losing. Think of it as strategy.
Sometimes Ps are really, really stupid. If you give them enough rope, they can hang themselves.
It sounds like the parenting consultant may be getting it. This can be really good for you.
Think of yourself as quietly building a case against your ex. Document everything. Report anything that is significant, but don’t sweat the small stuff.
In the meantime, keep providing a warm, stable, loving environment for your kids. Kids are smart. They will see what is going on.
Persevere. Yes, you want to throttle her. But sometimes you just have to bide your time.
BOB…..
Do not worry about ‘what’ they want…..do not give any of ‘them’ a second thought……
Your letting them control your thoughts and mind and actions.
STOP! STOP! STOP!!!!!!!!
Donna is spot on…..NO CONTACT is not giving up….it’s regaining Power……you turn into the puppeteir. and it’s a great strategy….trust me…..28 years with…..2 years w/o the S. That was my first MOVE TO HEALING…..taking that stand! Taking that POWER!!!!!
You HAVE to be patient…..it’s hard, yes….but you have to see a lesson in each step you are taking, each thought you think…..learn for the next time……if something makes you feel bad…..FEEL IT…..then bank it and keep it handy. When you get the same feeling next time, you can recall how you dealt with it and how it felt to be in control!
Dealing with a P is like what we teach our kids when they cross the street……
STOP……LOOK……LISTEN………add in, THINK…….
Your consultant is getting it, so back away now….if you press harder……you will only draw attention to yourself (negative).
YA GOTTA BE THAT SNAKE UNDER THE ROCK DUDE!
NO….your not going to win every battle….expect this!
Keep your eye on the long term!
Make today a wonderful day with your beautiful-loving-supportive wife!
XXOO
EB
Dear Bob,
Donna IS spot on! And I have seen what NC does to the Ps, it is HORRIBLE PAIN FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY CANNOT CONTROL WHAT THEY CANNOT REACH.
If you REFUSE to engage with them, they are at a LOSS of what to do. It is a huge BRICK WALL and they can pound their heads against it (and WILL do that) but they cannot break through or reach YOU if you keep that brick wall intact.
They MUST have contact in order to manipulate—without any contact they are POWERLESS.
Sure, she will try to manipulate lYOU THROUGH THE KIDS, but you can stop even that, by like Donna said, refusing to let that even get through your brick wall.
Let’s say Johnny comes home and says “Mom says you are dangerous/vindictive/a thief/liar” (or whatever that day’s hype is)
You do NOT react in front of Johnny, but simply say, “sometimes even adults say things ithat are not true when they are angry, and I think your mother is angry at me.”
Or you can say something like “do YOU believe that statement?” Then depending on what the child says, discuss it rationally without dis-ing the mother (no matter how much yuou would like to) the kid will catch on even without you dis-ing her.
But whatever you do, don’t let the kids even see you reacting to her antics.
I’m glad you have a parenting counselor/advocate for the kids, and YES, I BELIEVE SHE WILL, GIVEN ENOUGH ROPE, HANG HERSELF. You are very fortunate to have this person in your life and situation as an objective observer and advocate for the kids.
Good luck and God bless. Oxy
Thank you for your time and attention to MY matter. I have known everything that you have all been communication, but it is just reaffirming. This has taken a tremendous toll on me, but I shaking it off and moving on. We have been discussing this at great length and agree wholeheartedly. The NC rule in effect 100% of the time going. Of course, we know we have communicate, put it will be short, to the point, unaccussing and only about the children. We have gone in and out of NC, but have not been consistant. We have experienced what NC does, she becomes a caged animal fighting to get out. That’s not my goal, but its not my problem either.
BOB….
The below was a posting on the high conflict institutes newsletter. I immediately thought of you, so I copied it below.
I have enjoyed reading the HCI newsletters and websites….great information there. Bill Eddy.
Here is the link if you wish to explore this website further.
https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:CampaignPublic/id:1400424.6534380315/rid:e2b536608d2d6b8bdb45496151e3061d
Question: I have been divorced 8 years after a contentious divorce. My ex seems to have a high conflict personality–maybe narcissistic. She has little to do with the kids, but they defend and protect her and they expect nothing from her. Although they are teenagers now, they walk in fear of being cut out of her life because they’ve seen her do this to others. Should I tell them that she has a high-conflict personality and give them advice on how to handle her or should I let them continue down their current path?
Answer: It’s always best to take a balanced approach with children who defend a high conflict parent. On the one hand, you want to understand and respect their very basic need to love a parent, no matter how dysfunctional. This is normal and they should not be discouraged from loving a parent.
On the other hand, you want to teach your children skills for dealing with any difficult person in life. This can apply to their mother. So, you could explain that some people use “all or nothing” thinking when dealing with people. They shut people out of their lives as a method of coping with overwhelming feelings, such as their mother has apparently done to other people in the past. Teach your children strategies, such as backing off a little when someone, including their mother, is acting inappropriately angry, sad, etc. But then teach them to reach out and say positive things from time to time, such as sending a friendly note, even when she has been ignoring them or rude. These are skills that will help them throughout their lives.
So, rather than saying “your mother doesn’t seem to care about you, so don’t waste your energy…” you can say “some people use all or nothing thinking, and when this happens try to use flexible thinking in return.” From time to time describe some positive characteristics of their mother that you see, so that they don’t feel that they have to defend her to you. When you act balanced, even toward high conflict people, your children will learn to do the same.
I hope that helps.
Bill