Editor’s note: On April 15, 2009, we posted “Bob’s” story—Leaning on his family while battling his wife. Well, the battle continues. Bob is asking the Lovefraud community for suggestions.
I recently received the email below from my P ex-wife and wanted to share it with your readers. I would like someone to analyze this to get some insight and commentary on this situation. It is so reminiscent of what I have read on Lovefraud.com and in books and comes really without surprise; it just surprises me of the lengths she will go to try to falsely trash me in an effort to obtain custody of our kids. The allegations are either fabricated or extremely exaggerated. She has a knack for manipulating people to write letters for her and support her. She has no fear of me and really no fear that I will endanger our kids; she knows I would never hurt them. This is all blowing smoke, but there is motive.
A quick background: Post-divorce with joint custody, she moved out of state to be with her lover and took me to court to move the kids with her. Her motion was denied and the kids still live with me in my state during the school year, but she moved regardless. Her child support to me was tripled by the court order, and that has angered her. She lies to my kids about the circumstances of her move and casts blame at me for us being so far apart geographically.
During the custodial evaluation, up to the hearing and after the order was handed down she has been on a vigorous campaign to portray me as angry and hostile towards her. Apparently this is the only way she could convince the courts to give her custody. She stopped paying me for children’s expenses after the court order was received, attempting to elicit angry emails from me. That was over a year ago and this continues to this day, even after I took her to court this year to force payment of children’s expenses. After that court order, she still refuses to pay me what is legitimately owed. She is very angry and vindictive, but she conceals it from others very well.
Note, I have been to her home on only three occasions to drop off or pick up my kids and she lives over 1,000 miles from me. She travels to my state with regularity to pick up and drop off the kids at my home without any fear of me. The characterizations of me”—hostile, angry, vindictive, inconsistent, unbalanced, unstable, threatening, harassing, bi-polar—”are a common theme in her emails.
Bob:
I have just returned from a meeting with local law enforcement. I met with them because I fear for my safety and the safety of our children. Your actions, writings and overall demeanor are unstable, inconsistent, vindictive, and threatening.
During this discussion, I shared the following:
1) Our guidance from the Court.
2) years of correspondence between Bob and me, highlighting particularly the exchanges that were most hostile, threatening and vindictive.
3) A tape of Bob’s wire tapping of my phone while I lived in (city removed).
4) Several documents that prove Bob’s attempts to hack into my bank accounts, my AT&T account, my email account and one credit card account.
5) Data I have collected through Bob’s emails of him stalking me, including one today where he has details of my flight information that I did not provide to him. There are several other emails that confirm this pattern of behavior.
6) A written statement from the Summer Camp employee that he interrogated in August, complete with her statement that he appeared unstable and made her uncomfortable. She also confirms that he explicitly told her that he had sole custody of the children and that I was not allowed to make the decision I had made when enrolling him in his summer activities.
7) Evidence suggesting Bob’s taping of the children’s and my conversations.
I agreed that I would follow up this information with an opinion from my therapist, since she has been privy to the daily deluge of drama and interactions and has formed some opinions, based upon what she has read.
The officer confirms that there are red flags in this situation that do not need to be ignored. His suggestion is that I state first my concerns in writing directly to you. I am once again asking you to stop this harassment and contemptible behavior immediately. If you continue, I will have no choice but to proceed with the process of highlighting these situations and writings to the proper authorities and to seek protection for myself and our children.
This is not a threat and these are not games. Your anger, vindictiveness, and nonacceptance of the rules we were given have resulted in harassing and predatory behaviors which are at a minimum, disturbing and at the extreme, dangerous.
Our community saw a triple murder within the last two months at the hand of their father, a white-collar banking manager. The background and circumstances of this heinous crime were eerily similar to our past two years. I will no longer take the chances of what your volatility, instability or hostility might lead to.
Angie
“AKA Bob says:
Based upon the game playing last night, I felt it important to document with the parenting consultant her defiance of his order. Someone above wrote to kill her with kindness.
Angie,
Thank you for dropping the boys off at our house last night. While that may have been convenient for you, in the future I just ask that you notify me in advance if you wish to change the exchange location or time that we have agreed upon or Dr. Smtih has directed so that we are not in different places at the same time. I would have liked to have been home when you dropped them off instead of a 20 minute drive away.
I hope you enjoyed your time with the boys.
Bob
Clearly she’ll know I am tattling to the consultant, I call it documenting. The boys’ therapists says that shaming her is of no use, she knows no shame, she is without conscience.
”
Personally, I think this is a good idea. Quietly document the infraction, then drop the matter. Always CC the custody consultant when you send her an email. Just do it out of habit. It will help.
I suggest that you keep your emails to her gracious and brief. Don’t attempt to match her impressive vocabulary and elaborate writing style. (The “articulate” writing style she’s clearly proud of will work against her if your correspondence becomes legal evidence.) She’s trying to bully you when she points out how impressive her writing skills are in comparison to yours. Actually, she’s making an @ss of herself. Don’t compete with her on that front!
If you are brief and gracious, the contrast between your two writing styles will work in your favor, not hers.
Parse your words carefully when corresponding with the Custody Consultant.
“Dear Sir,
The attachment is an email from one of the children’s mother’s associates. This man and his children are often present when my children visit their mother. Do you think his presence is in the children’s best interests? I have some concerns, and I value your objective point of view.
Sincerely,
Bob Concerned Father
”
You’re right not to get into it with the X’s himbos. The landscaper sounds like a total Neanderthal. Note that his communication implied that he thinks punching people is the manly thing to do. He has a standard of manliness that my women friends and I frequently refer to as “testosterone poisoning.” If he works himself up sufficiently, he’ll do it. I suggest you avoid this, because these dramas don’t always play out in your favor. Testosterone poisoning is frequently fatal.
I was married to an S. for many years. He has a PhD in clinical pyschology. He knew exactly how to manipulate me into marriage, and how to keep me in the marriage. Long story. I eventually discovered he is gay. He said he isn’t gay, but can only enjoy sex with other men, and that he loved me and wanted me to stay with him. He also claimed he is a mystic and sexual and social norms don’t apply to him. He authored a spiritual self-help book available on Amazon.
I’m about 5 years out of the marriage. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever been through–worse than my childhood with a sadistic father. I left totally confused, thought black was white, up was down, etc.
The best tactic I could use, and did use, was to have NO CONTACT, despite his emails, letters sent by mail (certified and regular) and letters left on my doorstep, letters from his atty. etc. After a while I made sure he didn’t have my phone # tho he called everyone I knew trying to get it. I really believed we could have a civil and amicable divorce, given his “spirituality” & background.
During the divorce he asked me to come over and pick up some of my things. He was being very nice on the phone, so I agreed. Upon arriving, he showed me into the guest room and bent down…when he stood up he had a shotgun in his hand that he jokingly called a “people killer.” He said it was loaded and pointed it at me “jokingly.” I realized the best thing to do was acknowledge the shotgun, admire it, and compliment him on his purchase. That made him happy and he put it down.
He said he’d bought it that day. He then said if the divorce didn’t go his way, he would “come over and shoot myself on your front lawn.” The police can do nothing in these cases.
Over the years and throughout the divorce he choked me, came over and broke my window (twice) when I didn’t answer the door, threw me on the floor, etc. I was unable to get a restraining order as he wasn’t “calling or coming over at 2 in the morning on a regular basis.” I didn’t pursue it as restraining orders are pretty worthless in this city, and he was well-known.
Needless to say, the divorce went “his way.” And I was happy to let it go his way. And fortunately, we did not have children together. The divorce settlement was so unfavorable to me my atty. had me sign a declaration saying I would not sue her in the future. She was also worried about presenting the settlement in front of the judge as it was so skewed she was afraid the judge would reprimand her.
I was only interested in my life & the lives of the people I cared about.
There is healing after removing yourself from the S. If you can’t completely sever ties, keep contact to a minimum. The ex constantly tried to engage me using any method possible. Nice, threatening, gaslighting, kind, crying, hatred, sending flowers, books, the gamut.
What he hated most was no response from me. And it was scary because I worried that my lack of response would provoke him to use the “people killer” on me…I was always second-guessing, always trying to figure out what he might do next.
Now he’s living in FL and has profiles up on several dating sites. He presents very well–educated, affluent, articulate.
I didn’t really believe in evil until I met him. There’s a lot more to this story, but the main thing is to stay safe, not feed them in any way, and believe in a life after the S. There is. I had a life before him, and had to be reminded there would be a life after him.
Trusting again is the hardest part. But my S detector is activated and I doubt this will happen ever again. And through this process I learned my sister is an S, which is frightening because she is someone whose name the majority of you would recognize. It’s a facade, and I believe S’s have no real Self. Which does make them scary.
I have no contact with that sister either but since she is so famous can follow her on the Net. She tried to maintain contact but was so toxic I had to stop.
She tried to force her ex to take custody of their infant child after he’d been denied any access to the child b/c of suspicion of child abuse. When he refused to take the baby and leave the state (she offered him money to do so) she almost gave the baby up for adoption…she would rather have the abuser raise the baby as she felt the baby would “hurt my chances of finding another husband.” Sick, very sick…the daughter is now grown and not surprisingly is heavily into drugs.
Zero or very limited contact is a must. And disconnecting as much as possible if contact is required.
AKA BOB I agree with everyone who says don’t give her anything. Don’t give her boyfriend anything. Resist the impulse to point out her faults, etc and focus on the children and their futures. These people are just not worth it, and they won’t change.
I simply will not respond to or acknowledge the landscaper. This is a man who unbeknownst to me invited my oldest son to his parent’s lake home on the weekend of my wedding last year. This is man who has threatened to tell my children about “my behavior” and most likely does have inappropriate discussions with them.
I met my current wife online. The landscaper met her out once on an online date before we began dating. She caught him looking at himself in his reflection in windows and he made what she felt was inappropriate physical contact with her. After she and I began dating, he told my P that she had a big butt. Why did he make sexual advances if he thought her butt was big? So, landscapers tells my children that he dated my wife. Wholly inappropriate. I suggested to my P that he not have such inappropriate discussions with my children. His reply…..
Ah Bob, Dave McGolddigger, say, I had attempted to catch you by phone, now that’s how I choose to do, take care of my personal business either in person or by phone rather than by email. It has come to my attention that you sent Angie an email titled “Dave McGolddigger” and your intent to have me cease and desist speaking to your children. I think you need to be re-introduced to the fact that I have been spectacularly discreet with what I have chosen to share with your children over the last three years. And if I chose to share with them the fact that I had met Candace long before you had ever met her and I had a drink with her and we met through Match.com, that is the absolute truth and you can have no right whatsoever to tell me to cease and desist from speaking the truth. If you choose to continue on this tact, then I’ll make a more liberal decision on what I choose to share with the children with regard to your behavior the last two months and/or the last two years. So let’s not forget that we don’t want to open the Pandora’s Box. So if you have any further dealings with me, take them to me directly. You know my phone number. Bye
The P chose not to shelter my children, but rather share my email with landscaper to incite him, so he’ll do her dirty work.
These P’s work in amazing ways, albiet transparent.
When my P first learned about my girlfiend (wife) and met her she really liked her. After my youngest became attached to my wife, the P told me that she wasn’t good enough for me. Yet, she was attempting to convince her to move with me to her new state.
A few years back, I saw a therapist for about a year. He explained to me how my P emasculated me many years ago, early in our marriage. He gave me advise that I should not let onto my P that I am involved with anyone until I was completely serious with long terms plans. I made the mistake of letter the P know way to soon.
FYI, in my state there is no “custody”, court order or agreed upon “parenting time”, with a “parenting plan” as a legal document which includes the “parenting consultant” requirement for conflict. The PC has legal authority to alter court ordered parenting time if he/she believes it is in the best interests of the children. While expensive, he has been well worth it.
Dear Bob,
I agree that the PC has definitely been worth it for you, especially dealing with this witch!
Dear CAMom,
Glad you found you way here and glad that you have a working P-dar.
There is much evidence that Ps are neither straight nor gay but just “sex addicted” and many will have sex with a snake if they can get it to let them…anything. Because they don’t have the normal “bonding” ability with others, sex to them is just a bodily function, and nothing more.
I applaud you on NC with your sister. Good call! sorry the child is screwed up though, but there is a big hereditary component and some researchers think the female is more likely to pass on the genes, as well as the environment, and sounds like that child had a real bad hand genetically as well as environmentally from both sides.
again, welcome.
Wow!… Thank you CAmom for sharing your horrific experience, and the recovering process.
These stories help me more then I could ever express. I’ve done little else today, except read and comment.
I meet with my attorney, again, tomorrow, and I always get anxious before we meet. As much detail as I have, and it’s significant, when I try to explain it, my mouth goes dry, my heart races, and I feel scared (I always feel scared with I’m sticking up for myself). Nonetheless… I must press forward.
There is still much I have to do to prepare, and I’m a little annoyed with myself for spending so much time here, today. Yet, I keep reading that we are supposed to take care of ourselves. This is something I rearly, if ever do… that is, purposefully take time to care for myself. And, I believe being here, reading, learning, feeling a sense of community with other’s who, not only “get it,” but have lived it; but for the names and specific circumstances, our experience, suffering, and recovery process as a result of the S/P/N all seem to be the same. And, this has a healing power in itself.
I must go. I have to put my head back in the game, and make sure that I’m prepared, ready for tomorrow’s meeting.
Blessings to you all.
It has been a very tough six years for me since my xP surprised me with a trip to Cancun for my 40th with seven couples including one of my brothers. She also invited her best high school friend (single male), a man that all attendees knew through us and assumed was gay (he came out later) and she housed him in our villa with us on my 40th birthday. Her first known affair was uncovered a week later, and I have lived with a great deal of stress ever since. Her hostile boyfiends injected in my children’s lives, this ongoing war. I feel as if I have been able to handle what has dolled out to me and am still alive, I could probably handle anything.
My wife just emailed me from work…
It must be very gut wrenching to raise your boys only to have them manipulated by the queen of all manipulation whose main focus in life is to alienate them from their father. I have had what I felt were some very heart breaking experiences with my nieces and have had to learn that I have to take a step back because they are not my own and I have no control. This must be extremely difficult for you. I don’t think there is an easy answer.
Dear Isabell,
Learning to take kcare of ourselves FIRST is hard for some of us who have always felt we had to take care of others first, even if we were ‘bleeding to death” we couldn’t stop to care for ourselves without being made to feel like we were doing wrong.
It takes time to put yourself first, and work. I am still working on that and still at times feel guilty for doing so…it is bred in the bone and trained into the brain, so we are having to overcome a life time of programming. I’m not sure there isn’t some genetic tendency in us too, just as there is with the Ps to be self centered and evil, I think we may bond too much or care too much, a mixture of genetics and training.
Recognizing that we do need to care for ourselves first, because otherwise we will have nothing left to care for our children with and those that we WANT to do for.
good luck tomorrow, and take a deep breath when you feel stressed and dry mouthed. Tell yourself, I am doing the best I can! (((hugs))))
Bob–Is that last paragraph from your wife to you?
The thing that amazes me is how quick Sociopaths are at picking up on a weakness or an odd turn of phrase and using it to turn the tables. My S-mom is really good at this. She was able to convince my brother and sister that I was abusing her.
I didn’t read all the comments, so maybe you’ve already heard this. But here are my tips.
1. Don’t engage her. Keep everything strictly business. Don’t argue or let your feelings show. Certified mail and witnesses are really important.
2. Assume she’s lying about everything. I have the feeling the entire first email was all made up to frighten you. When you respond to her accusations it just eggs her on because she’s got you dancing.
3. Remember that she has no soul and doesn’t care about her children other than what she can use them for. And if that’s to ruin your life for her amusement that’s what she’ll do.
4. The less you have to do with her the better. You can’t change her and there is no rhyme or reason to what she does. Get an attorney or a mediator to deal with her and take yourself out of the equation entirely.
I think if you ignore her she’ll get bored and move on to her next victim.
Oh, and speaking as an adult child of a sociopathic mother, I can tell you that she’s favoring one child over the other so that one day she can make one the bad guy and the other the good guy. She’ll divide and conquer them. She’ll convince the good one that he has to protect her from the bad one who is abusing her. This is what my mother did to me. She would give my younger sister things I asked for and give me the opposite hoping that we’d tear each other apart.
I’m happy to report that, while it’s been a struggle sometimes, my sister and I have been very close through the years. And the death of my father last year helped my sister to see my mother for who she really is. And that’s been a blessing.
Find a friend to vent with and let someone else deal with your ex-wife. That’s the best advice I can give you.
Good luck, and believe me, I feel your pain. It’s so sad what these people do to others.
Yes, my wife sent my that email today.