By | August 31, 2012 111 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: We met at church – I thought he was a decent man

Editor’s note: The Lovefraud reader who posts as “Radar_On” sent the following letter.

How does one begin to tell the tale of the masquerade and the swath of destruction at the hands of liars, narcissists, sociopaths, and so on? The psychological, emotional, mental damage that has been inflicted upon us is too much for the “normal” person to comprehend. Unless someone has been through, and survived living through situations like this ”¦ average people just can’t understand, or relate!

I am a 52yr. old woman that has been through much in my life. This current situation is my 3rd. marriage. My first ex husband (my children’s father), we were married for 14 yrs. The last 18mo. we were married, he was charged and CONVICTED of aggravated rape.

She was a young girl of 22 at the time, they were “friends”. Unfortunately, not long before he raped her (about 1hr.) she had a “petit mal” epileptic seizure, and he “assisted her to her bedroom to lay down” ”¦ and that’s when he raped her. My divorce became final some months later.

My 2nd ex, we were married about 8 yrs, but that ended abruptly when he left for one of our employees (we owned a business together), and yes, I had no idea what was going on ”¦ and never saw it coming. I was shattered an devastated by that one as well, and had to start over at 42 ”¦ from the rubble of my life.

I proceeded to move on with my life, found a job and took care of myself and my youngest daughter that was still at home at the time. During those years, I remained single, (7 years) and rarely dated at all. It was safer to remain that way! In 2009, I started to attend a church, locally where I live. I thought no harm in that? I was dead wrong. That is where this “optical and psychological illusion” began!

The crosshairs

Little did I know in the few short weeks that I was attending, I was being “sized-up” and placed in the crosshairs of this monster. This predator in the pew had his eye on me from the beginning. Every time I was there, he was watching me. Sadly, he has the Pastor fooled as well, and with the aid of the Pastor, we were “fixed-up.”

For me, this is one of the most heinous aspects of my situation, that he used the “cloak” of Christianity, and God, in his agenda. To me, Church should be a safe harbor? I thought so, but was wrong. A few weeks later, there was a seminar at the church, for a class to take. There was a “sign-up” sheet in the hallway. I signed up to attend, and yes ”¦ he was there. This monster, or someone else, must’ve seen my name on the list to attend. That is where we first “met.” While there, I was getting coffee, and (I remember every detail so vividly) he came up to me and struck up a conversation. He “seemed” nice, friendly, harmless. I wasn’t attracted to him whatsoever. Several weeks went by, and he asked me out for a bite to eat. Harmless I thought, so I agreed.

Weeks went by, and we started to “date.” There was no physical attraction at all, but what did attract me, I was fooled by his fake “sincerity,” and thought he was a decent man…we “met in church”…right? WRONG! As the weeks went by, his “flattery” was a bit much, saying I was the best looking woman who came thru the doors of the church, and so on. I laughed, and said, “Oh, so you’ve never dated anyone here at church?” He said no. Oh, but little did I know, that the woman that he had a 4yr. affair with, was also a member of the church as well!

The incident

After attending this church for several months (we were still “dating”), on a Sunday June 2009 there was a luncheon after the services, and we went together. No harm, right? Innocent? Little did I know ”¦ As we stood in line, a woman came up to him and asked to have a word with him. (I didn’t pay much attention to it, thought it was innocent). They went OUTSIDE TO TALK. The spath (I’ll call him D.) came back after about 15mins, very upset and furious, but kept his “cool,” but I could tell he was pissed!

We got our food, but he wasn’t saying much. On our way back to take me back to my house, I asked him why he was so irate.? He said she (I’ll call her B.) was just some “crazy” woman chasing after him, and wouldn’t leave him alone. I asked him “key” questions, like have you ever dated her? Been out with anyone from the church, etc. He denied all of it.

This “incident” will come back and “boomerang” throughout this tale of deceit. The first of many lies he told me all started in a Church. Sad? Using the things that are most dear to us ”¦ against us? Just pure evil!

Little did I know the woman that approached him was B., the woman (I later found out) that he had a 4yr. affair with, behind his x-wife’s back while they were married, as well. On top of that, they were also co-workers working for a school system, and both were 20+ veteran employees, both were fired from the schools. (I found the online newspaper article about it) D. lost his job, family, retirement, everything in 2007. B. lost her job, and home as well.

Looking back now, the questions that I asked him about this “crazy woman”, he denied ever knowing her, and so on…I would have never known he was lying, swindling, and GASLIGHTING, he is that accomplished! But that is their “m.o.”, right?

The door to insanity cracks open

Fast fw to April 2010 when (sad to say) we got married. Oh God, he seemed so genuine, sincere and caring! (my mind and psyche are still trying to grasp all of it!) The door to hell cracked open about 6 weeks after we got married. I was looking through some of his “documents and paperwork” in a box for health insurance items, when I happened to see a few old cancelled checkbooks from 2007. Some of the dates were before and after his divorce from his 1st wife.

Being the curious creature I am, I looked at them. Weeks before D. got divorced from his 1st wife, he gave (over a 90day period) almost $5000 to a woman. (Several of the checks were filled out by her, to her). At that moment, I had no idea who this woman was! I proceeded to find the “church directory” and look for her name. Ohhhh, you got it! There “B” was in the church directory!!!

MY MIND EXPLODED!!! My heart started to pound in my chest, weak at the knees, and lucky for him, he was working nights at the time, or else it would’ve ended that night in a fatality.

A few days later I asked him, “who that lady at the church” was. What was her name? He gave me a strange look, and said ”¦ “ugh, why? I think her name was “B.”) I turned and said to him, “I know about “B.”!

At first he acted angry, OFFENDED, then denied, denied, denied! I showed him the checks, and then he blew up, gaslighting me. He threw B. under the bus saying the money was because she was blackmailing him, that she was going to tell his 1st wife they were having an affair! Again, all LIES! OMG, we had just gotten married, and I didn’t know what to believe, and AT THAT TIME, no way of getting any confirmation from anyone.

I should’ve booted him out, (yes, he moved into my house), but got the fake tears, fake apologies, all the “I’m so sorry’s” and so on. After this happened, my mind was blown, and spinning. (I’m sure you all know what I’m saying.) Rather than fight it, I ignored my gut, and for the time being, let it go. After this happened, I did kick him out of MY bedroom. We had only had sex twice (and very pathetic sex at that!) His line was, “I’m sooo sorry I lied. I NEVER CHEATED ON MY 1ST WIFE. Don’t I deserve a second chance?”

Two years later

In the last two years, he took his 1st wife back to court over an issue with their divorce. It lasted eighteen months. Foolishly, I went to the hearings with him, stuck up for him, defended him, and so on. All this time, I was still in the dark about the rest of “his” story. In Feb. of 2012, through a series of events, I got online to check his phone calls. He NEVER stopped talking to “B.”! Ohhhh, the insanity! While D’s second wife, (me) was busy sticking up for him in court, against his 1st wife (ex), he was busy talking on the phone behind my back, to “B.”, the woman he had a 4yr. affair with, when he was married to his 1st wife!!!

After months of digging, researching, watching his behavior, talking to other people, his grown kids, I know what D. did to their mother; I’ve been able to put it all together, finally. When I realized everything ”¦ from the beginning, to now? For days, thought I was having a nervous breakdown!!! No words can describe this feeling, however all of you here can relate! My mind is having an extremely difficult time processing all of it!

Cat and mouse games

In the last two yrs. I have developed, the “hyper-vigilance” that war veterans, etc. experience with Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I’m in the CTS- Current Traumatic Stress Syndrome. For the last several months, I have been watching his every move, mentally cataloging his every word, and action, as well as on-line activity, every time I leave or he leaves, I check my watch for the time, constantly making “mental notes.” I carry a small box-cutter in my pocket, and keep screwdrivers, hammers, box-cutters, steak knives strategically hidden throughout my house…JUST IN CASE. I have to watch what and HOW I say something to him, for I have been exposed “up-close” to his Narcissistic Rage.

As “punishment” for inquiring about seeing the credit card bill in June of this year, he went up to the credit union and “amputated” me off the accounts. (He is the “primary, I was added on when we got married.) He left me hanging for 10 days, before he decided to add me back on. In his mind, he was punishing me, for defying him and calling him out.

Also in these last months, I have been busy documenting everything. Have been copying everything, have copied to burned Cd’s and everything saved to a flash drive. As he has been playing his game, and playing me the fool, I have been documenting EVERYTHING! Including his online activities, as well as him calling transsexual and “she-male” escorts. Making a copy of a “screen-capture” is a wonderful thing! The sick, twisted, perverted things he looks at is horrifying to me! I will say, if I EVER see any evidence of child-pornography on this computer, I WILL immediately un-plug it, and take it to our police station!

The most dangerous aspect of this is my “proof”. If he ever finds out, I have the concrete evidence, of the sick and twisted things he has done, and IS DOING, D.s son would totally not let him near his grandchildren, EVER AGAIN!!!

Unfortunately, for now…I have to play this game as a matter of survival. I lost my job last year and at my age (52), I’m having a hard time getting hired anywhere, especially now, in these economic times! Have to be very careful in word, deed, and appearance. D. does have a ccw license, has a 9mm (with the clip in the case) on his night-stand, and a 12ga. shotgun (with the bullets lined up in a row) in a gun cabinet in his bedroom.

Yes, a few situations came up in the last two years, and he has made reference to shooting someone. I know he has another phone, he keeps hidden, so he can’t be traced by me. I can go on and on about the situations, the LIES, the GASLIGHTING, the blow-ups, the LIES, the intimidating, and so on. My children are grown, have their on families, and lives, and I don’t want to get them involved. Unfortunately, he knows where my family members live ”¦

I did contact our county DV center here. Will check out what services that are offered. They do have support groups that meet every week. For right now, trying to keep up appearances, and keep my sanity, and try to get on my feet. The place I live in is mine (manufactured home) and it is paid for, I own it outright. When this situation is “set-off,” if he tries to lay claim to my house in any way, I will leave, but leave it in a heap of ashes.

This man has just about totally destroyed me, my mind, my trust, he has raped me of my emotions, he has raped my very soul. A consolation I have gotten from this is I knew/know I wasn’t crazy! It was not just my imagination!!!! I’M NOT CRAZY! Happened upon a quote a few weeks back, “The Human heart feels things, the eyes cannot see ”¦ and knows what the mind cannot understand.” I’m not crazy.

I’ve tried to tell this tale of the dark side, as best I can, from a spinning mind. Eloquent words, I used to have, escape me now, and I tried to keep the “story time line straight.

I found Lovefraud one day, when I just googled, the words love ”¦ fraud. I try to get on the site as often as I can. My screen name is Radar_On. Thank you, Donna. Appreciate your pain, and dedication to exposing these MONSTERS! as well as everyone else on Lovefraud. I wish everyone here the best! God Bless you all!

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Spaths play with people. Life is a game to them, playing with innocent people’s lives. They really don’t take anything seriously (that’s my impression of these degenerates). My ex-spath use to pretend to be insulted over things (later on, I realized that many of his responses were all an act) and then stomp out of the house, leaving me reeling. Only an _sshole would behave the way these people do. What they love to do is play head games with us. I’m sorry that you learned the hard way (like the rest of us) about spaths. You’re doing the best that you can (with your situation). Once we get away from them, it can’t be fast enough. Be good to yourself and know that you’re not alone. As far as I’m concerned spaths are lunatics. Peace.



WOW! So sorry for your pain and suffering 🙁 The title of this blog really caught my eye because I too, met my sociopath ex-husband in church.

As I was reading through I couldn’t get over our similarities with our thoughts and situations. My ex-husband’s name starts with D. I remember seeing D. at church and I NEVER saw him as attractive. When some people suggested that I should date him, I always turned my nose up. I was also only 19 years old. No interest, he was goofy looking to me lol. Now that I really know what he’s about, he’s the ugliest monster I’ve ever seen.

Somehow he got my phone number and called me. We talked for a while and I agreed to go out to dinner with him. I was really into sports at the time and the place we went for our first dinner had a game on. He pretended to be interested and engaged in the conversation. Later I find out he thought I talked about baseball too much and he hated sports. He wouldn’t let me watch them while we were married.

He just sucked me right in, showering me with gifts and wanting to spend every second with me. He would cry poor boy and I would be there with my checkbook ready to handout. He started isolating me from my friends and the church was all for us getting married. We married in 6 months from meeting. I was 20 he was 22.

The next 10 years of my life would be nothing but lies, deceitfulness and emotional, verbal, sometimes sexual abuse, threats and bullying. We had 3 children together, which makes the “no contact” thing very difficult. All the kids are 10 and under. His unethical ways and lack of morality destroyed my credit, left me bankrupt and nearly homeless with 3 kids. He has no remorse.

My ex was always obsessed with handguns. He used to have a gun on each floor of the house. Wears a gun daily. Doesn’t leave home without it. Comforting….NOT!

I think part of the reason I put up with it for so long was not only because I lived in fear, but because I was brought up that divorce is wrong. God hates divorce. I get that but I also get now that it wasn’t a real loving marriage. It was a fraud! He never loved or could ever be capable of loving me as God intended for my life. Not sure why I had to encounter a sociopath, but I don’t blame God. Perhaps had I not been through what I’ve been through, I wouldn’t have met my sweet, selfless, big-hearted, loving and adorable fiance:) Thank God for my 2nd chance!

My hope is to help others in similar situations. Thank you for sharing your story. We are not alone in this–we have eachother. I always felt alone in my suffering and misunderstood, because “nobody knows what it’s like to be me,” but since finding Lovefraud, I know I have a community who understands, who can give advice cause they can honestly say they know what I’ve been through.

Wishing you the best and I’ll be praying for you!

Ox Drover

Dear Radar on,

Your story brought shivers to my spine and the hair on my neck stood up.

While I can SO RELATE because there was a time when I had to live “radar on” and pretend my family wasn’t out to kill me (several members of them anyway) and I felt I could not leave my home at age 60…but you know, I RAN FOR MY LIFE and I suggest that you do to. Go to a SHELTER, GET OUT GIRL! Get out while you are ALIVE to tell the tale.

I sit by my computer, with a pistol lying within my arm’s reach, but I AM back in my home and I think safe for the moment, but I am CAUTIOUS.

It was my son Patrick who is in prison for murder and my other son’s wife, and a man (ex convict) that son Patrick had sent to “off” me and con my other sons and my egg donor into letting him take over the family assets.

I too was without work, disabled by the PTSD, and turned to my minister who threw me off and “sided with” the psychopathic Trojan horse….but I fled and survived, and was eventually able to come home CAUTIOUSLY.

The evidence you have is enough to destroy his cover….and that is enough to make him kill you for ….but turn the tables on him, get to safety then get an attorney to toss him out. But do not worry about the furniture or the other STUFF, your LIFE is more important.

You cannot sleep safely with a rattle snake! GET OUT ASAP is my advice to you, and yes, it is colored by my own experiences, but too many women (and men) are dead just because they didn’t run when they knew they were sleeping with the enemy.

Olga Rodriguez

Radar; you are right “You are not Crazy”…you couldn’t have come to a more safe and understanding place than LF! I hope it gives you hope to know that “This too shall pass”
It will and you will be much more stronger and better because of this! You will come to learn much; the way you are feeling is exactly how HE wants you to feel; this is when you are most emotionally available for him to control you! I know it’s very scary; keep reading here and you will find stories much like yours that have had a good ending; good as in the fear is gone, the drama is less and we have survived. You are and will continue to be a survivor; keep telling yourself that!

Olga Rodriguez

Radar: Yes just like OX suggested; get out ASAP! You will figure out the rest later…priority is to save yourself!


Radar – your post has touched me so deeply – all I can think is THANK YOU GOD … that I no longer live in the daily insanity. It is so very stressful and lonely and it made me sick – with worry, fear, the need to watch everything. I know I started to feel like I was going absolutely crazy.

I do not know what you can do to get yourself free of that environment but life is precious and short. I pray you find your way out safely and have the opportunity to find joy and peace again with Godspeed!


PS- had to edit as I just read Oxy’s post – I totally co-sign what she says. Mine became violent and did try to take me hostage 3X and threatened to kill me and my children. I am so grateful I got out before irreversible damage occurred but it was a narrow escape. There is nothing in life so precious as your health, physical, mental and emotional. All your “things” can be let go off. Your own being is the one irreplaceable thing.

I’m beginning to think that church is the last place we’d want to meet a man. They use it as a mask. It’s the 180 rule, they show themselves to be exactly the opposite of what they are. Perhaps it is no coincidence that Jesus was always pointing out that the Pharisees (the church elders) were hypocrites – doing exactly the opposite of what they preached. I think hypocrite is just another word for spath.

As for the pastors…well I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush because I believe that there are good people who become pastors, but then there are the others. Just the other day, a man approached me as I was putting oil in my truck. He began a strange type of love bombing, told me he is looking for a christian wife. When I told him I had a bf, he persisted. In between quoting the bible and professing his love of Jesus, he also encouraged me to give him my phone number and that my boyfriend doesn’t have to know. WTF? Then his pastor just happened to show up. He introduced me. The pastor offered to buy us both a cup of coffee. huh? I think the pastor is a “wing man”, an assistant for the spath, who lends the mantle of authority and credibility. From now on when I hear the word “pastor”, I’ll consider it a red flag. What better mask for a spath? Do you know how easy it is to become a mail order ordained pastor?

It was my fault I suppose, because I didn’t want to be rude, I just kept conversing with them. Being polite is a bad habit of mine.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, got my panties in a bunch over that pastor thing.

What I really meant to post, is that I understand your situation and how hard it can be to leave. I only left when I knew I was being set up for the kill. I lost my nerve and fled in the middle of the night. You must watch for the spaths’ tendency to poison: food, pills, toothbrushes, even cosmetics. There will often be tells (that’s their weak point, they can’t help it) or the 180 rule where they protest TOO much (as Shakespeare said) that indicate when a game is afoot.

Conversely, you can also game them with misdirection. Pick one thing you couldn’t care a damn about and make it like you care very much. That will focus their attention on sabotaging that one thing, to make you miserable. Pick additional issues, as they become available.

Meanwhile, stock up on cash reserves hidden somewhere else. Start networking, making friends he doesn’t know about. Be ever so careful and use the library computers. Good luck.



It’s a terrible way to live when you get the information you need and now you know. Then what? Where’s the instruction manual on how to deal with this?

I know the betrayal of church and spath. My spath recruiter his “senior pastor” to do some very dirty work in my life and our childs life. They are Christian Fundamentalist. I do not agree with their perception of scripture and will not step near a church like that. They forgive all and the spaths know there are kind in the church who will not hold them accountable for ANYTHING they have done no matter how attrocious the act as they are forgiven the moment they “claim” to have Jesus in their life. What a homerun for the spath!!

My experience with this particular pastor was 100% narcisist. He wanted to be heard. He wanted to hear himself and he didn’t want to hear anyone or anything else. Spath and Pastor get along. Cover for each other and are very dangerous.

Yes church is a place to go for peace with God and a time of loving feelings etc. Your home is supposed to be your safe haven but spaths infiltrate all of that with intention.

Once you get past him and the betrayal, you will heal but you will be keenly aware that living as if what you believe makes it’s so will be lost and you will find balance with time. It’s the trauma I think that makes us really feel unsafe to the extreme but time does help heal.

I wish you luck and more. I hope you get away from this with as little damage as possible. Keep posting to lovefraud as their are many who understand and it helps so much.



Skylar said: “I’m beginning to think that church is the last place we’d want to meet a man. They use it as a mask. It’s the 180 rule, they show themselves to be exactly the opposite of what they are. Perhaps it is no coincidence that Jesus was always pointing out that the Pharisees (the church elders) were hypocrites ”“ doing exactly the opposite of what they preached. I think hypocrite is just another word for spath.” That statement is dead-on! Thank you for all of your comments! I really need this out-let now. As I type, I’m “tuned-in” to the sound of his vehicle coming around to when he gets back. Yes, hyper-vigilant. Am looking forward to posting and reading the insights you all have. My mind still reels in all of this, but am hell-bent on keeping my sanity! When he is around, it is hard to look into the mask of his insanity! The deviousness is amazing! Now, he plays the innocent, “look-see…I’m not doing anything wrong” song. When he was “confronted” in June, basically what I did, was grabbed his mask, with both hands, and ripped it down. He has it back on, more deviant as ever! I know he has another phone now, so he can’t be traced. He has another address he uses as well. The cat-n-mouse game is needed for now. I live in my home, and have really no where to go. Don’t understand, why HE doesn’t just leave??? He still needs the “cover” here? Doesn’t have his next “victim” lined up yet? Just don’t know. Again, many thanks to all of you!!!!! You are all appreciated!


According to the ancient Phrygian philosopher Epictetus, he stated: 1) Things are, and they appear to be;
2) Things are, and do not appear to be;

3) Things are not, yet appear to be.
4) Things neither are nor appear to be…..


2nd_chance said: “Somehow he got my phone number and called me.” Was that a mere “coincidence”???? NOT in a church it is! As I was, you were in his cross-hairs, and he picked you out from among the Sheep! It would be interesting to know just HOW and WHO gave out your phone number!!! In my case, he (I believe), he had/has the pastor of the church in his pocket. Ohhh, Mr. Spath is an electrician and is “profitable” to the Church! Oh yes, talk about wolves in sheep’s clothing!

Ox Drover

Dear Radar on, living in that insanity, I think, and keeping up your own mask so the psychopath doesn’t know what you are thinking or planning is so STRESSFUL….keep on reading here and learning. There is great information and great support here…but focus on getting out OUT as fast as you can! Or getting HIM out if it is your house. ((((hang on)))) God bless. I do believe in God and Jesus, just don’t trust everyone that says they do as being sincere and truthful, the hypocrites crucified Jesus so guess what they will do to us. I also had a minister of our small, intimate church turn his back on me and “side with” my high contributing egg donor (formerly called mother) and the ex convict pedophile x 3 convictions and throw me to the wolves.

The minister, Dickie Chance, (there’s an article here on LF I wrote about him) was later arrested for trying to recurit a young girl for sex over the internet….of course he was “sorry” I hear though that his poor wife looks like a new person since she left him. Before that she looked so beaten down and I alswyas suspected he was verbally abusive to her (at least) and I hope and pray she has a life left to live, she is 60+ so has spent a great deal of her life with that pedophile monster.


Radar_On, one of the most perfect trolling grounds outside of the interwebs for sociopaths is oranized religious groups. My belief that this is so is because most people who are devout in their doctrines are under the mistaken belief that every human being can be redeemed if they just believe the doctrines. These well-meaning and good-hearted people are so conned, even by religious leaders.

I lost my interest in organized religion when a fellow church member hung himself after it was discovered that he had not only served time for child molestation, but had actually been molesting members’ children – the diocese knew about this, and never warned anyone or took any action to prevent his involvement with children.

I am so sorry that you had the experiences that you did, Radar_On. It’s going to take some time and patience for your healing – as it does for all of us.

I do believe that there is something greater out there than I know of – Higher Power is the best thing I can come up with, or Great Creator. But, whatever entity or energy is involved, it is of perfection that we cannot comprehend. All of these things happen for “A Reason,” though I cannot always see this.

Remember this, Radar: you are valuable, priceless, and precious in this vast Universe. And, this is just a part of some learning process.

Brightest comforting blessings


Radaron, hello. I’m so sorry that you are being subjected to this. It really is a living hell!! I can only agree with what has already been said to you. Your safety is paramount. You are worth so much more than dealing with the evil machinations of a sociopath. People here understand how hard it is to leave….I myself stayed when I indeed shouldn’t have but as others have so rightly told you, there is light at the end of the tunnel. There really is.

Sending you best wishes and wishing you all the luck and good fortune you wish for yourself away from this evil.


Strongawoman, what “should” be hardly ever coincides with what “is.” And, in Radar’s situation, what “should” be a safe, secure, and comforting thing has been shown to be the complete opposite.

So, once we recognize the ugly truth of a situation, then what? We have two choices: get out; remain. Getting out, no matter what the circumstances, is a daunting task. We will lose much in the process, whether it’s divorcing a spouse, cutting off former friends/family, or leaving a place of employment that we were happy in…it’s all seemingly impossible to do. To remain means accepting, allowing, and tolerating abuse – period. Whether we remain for “security” or health care coverage, remaining in a horrible situation means accepting punishment that we do not deserve.

Yes, it’s scary as HELL to start over in a new place, a new job, and without enough to buy groceries! It sure is scary. It’s sad to leave people and places with which I was familiar. It is daunting to face the task of getting employment and paying necessary bills. You bet it is. But, I had a clear choice: remain where I knew people and enter into a homeless shelter; relocate and rebuild my life.

When the exspath realized that I had discovered what he was, he dangled “security” and my health issues in my face with mistaken belief that I would tolerate his actions out of fear of change. What I find most interesting about this mistaken belief is that he thoroughly underestimated my resolve. Yeah, if I hadn’t been educated by this site prior to my discovery, I may well have responded with, “Do whatever you want! JUST DON’T LEAVE ME!” Well, I might be afraid of change, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t stare it down and win.

There is no amount of money, no property perfect enough, no friends dear enough, and no job so important that I will risk my own health and well-being to keep it. If I can’t let something tangible go to better myself, how in the heck can I let emotional baggage go to better heal myself? I have to be willing to let go……..let it go……..and, let it ALL go.

Radar, make this your new mantra for as long as you need it: I am worthy of love, I didn’t do anything to deserve this, and I will survive, recover, and emerge.

Brightest blessings


Truthspeak said: So, once we recognize the ugly truth of a situation, then what? We have two choices: get out; remain. Getting out, no matter what the circumstances, is a daunting task. We will lose much in the process, whether it’s divorcing a spouse, cutting off former friends/family, or leaving a place of employment that we were happy in”it’s all seemingly impossible to do. To remain means accepting, allowing, and tolerating abuse ”“ period. Whether we remain for “security” or health care coverage, remaining in a horrible situation means accepting punishment that we do not deserve. I am in total agreement with this statement. Unfortunately after recently in these last months putting everything together…has absolutely thrown me for a loop! Besides that, just need a little time to get my head together because I’m such a mess right now. “We” are living in my house right now, and yes, it’s all I have. Been here for a long time…yes, I know it is only material things! Ohhhh, I need to get my resolve and COURAGE back!!!!!! Thank you all for your best wishes… 🙂


Hello all,

Darned computer made me lose what I had just written!! Anyway, I will make it much shorter that what I just wrote and lost!

I survived my ex-husband/spath/narc, finally got out, after more than 2 decades of relationship and marriage. What finally got me moving, despite my almost clinical depression caused by the abuse, was that my 3 children (then 15, 13, and 11) each finally told me to “LEAVE HIM, and move on with my life”. It was difficult, as I had been raised to think marriage was forever, and you needed to deal with the choice you made. But I finally realized I had to protect myself and my children, no matter what my family said to try to keep me in the marriage.

I finally got the strength and resolve to pick up and go to shelter. This was in 1999, and it was a hellish time for me and the kids. I didn’t know I was dealing with such a sick person, and only years later did I realize I was raised with 2 individuals with these characteristics in my own family. What a lightbulb moment!

Anyway, PLEASE leave as soon as you possibly can! In 2006, Sept. 5th, to be exact, I lost my sweet, loving 21-yr. old son to suicide. We didn’t see it coming at all, but in retrospect, I strongly feel that he, too, had PTSD from the abuse. I had already been diagnosed, and was in the process of attending nursing school, trying to get my life back together and to be able to support my children (had been a stay-at-home mom–he didn’t want me to work) when we lost my son. Only after the suicide did I learn that children who witness DV are SIX TIMES as likely to take their own lives….I so wish I had left so much sooner than I did…

I since (2 years ago) have moved from that state with all the bad memories, to where one of my children lives and now I have a beautiful grandchild. Though I completed my RN degree and worked as a nurse for a time (until landing on a hospital unit that was toxic–the manager probably is a narc., at least!), I ended up quitting that job, moving out of state, and now have my own small business that is slowly growing.

I finally feel that I have the peace in my life that I deserved all along. I have distanced myself from the abusive relatives, and the PTSD, though it sometimes reappears at stressful times, is much better now than it was earlier. I love my children and grandchild, my work is fulfilling to me and serves others, I still support the women’s DV center in that previous state with small monthly donations, and I also am involved with suicide prevention and aftercare to survivors like myself.

I am so thankful to Lovefraud and Donna! I had no clue who I was married to, until the psychologist who I finally sought out to find out why I was so depressed, during the last part of the marriage, suggested he might be a spath. I googled the term, and WOW!!! What a revelation! I now pass the word about Lovefraud to women I come across who sound like they need to be educated. And I am so happy that Donna has been working to educate our young people about spaths and other personality-disordered beings. Back in the early 70’s, when I was dating and married (“young and dumb”) at the age of 21, I had no idea these beings existed!! So education is really the way to prevent others from the destruction, pain, and sometimes death, that these beings create.

My hope is that anyone dealing with such a disordered,destructive being GET OUT as soon as possible. NOTHING material is worth losing your life, or the life of an innocent child, due to the crazy-making abuse of these creatures.

I am forever changed, but also incredibly stronger, for having survived what I’ve been through. I rarely date, have been single since 2000, but though I sometimes am lonely, I’d rather be occasionally lonely than EVER have to be with someone like him again! If God wants me to have a special guy, I’m open to that, but now have removed the rose-colored glasses so I can look for those red flags!!

Peace to all of you, and I hope you all will be spath-free!


PS: Sadly, I am now losing my beloved labrador retriever to cancer. Just got the news a couple days ago, that she only has maybe 2 weeks left. Another loss 🙁

She was such a good companion to me and helped me through so much with all that I dealt with in the past decade. RIP,my sweet friend. “Til we meet again”

I can’t write out another answer like below but it is a recycled response to this post. This is the first time I saw this and saw the parallels and had to write you radar.


Yes, thank you for sharing that…it’s still hard to think about Trevor’s last two hours – especially since I was not able to be there for him. No one was as his wife went to a different hospital. It will be 10 years next May and I can’t believe how fast the time has gone. And how slow. My son was the only person in my family who had feelings like me…while my ex is likely not a spath he had very few feelings. He cried harder when a race car celebrity died than when Trevor died.

I am so sorry for your loss and all the pain the aircrash caused you. And I’m glad you are in the room. I am so very insecure…sometimes I read my posts immediately after I post and I seem so choppy.

I’m just getting my bearings back after my boyfriend of five years was found to have been molesting my granddaughter…my precious sweet who was my son’s and I should have been more vigilant in protecting her.

I’m getting smashed down pretty big from her mother’s side of the family…blaming me. I don’t blame them. However, when I found the c.d.s I took them to the police immediately and moved that weekend while he was away. He is in jail now, for 18 months. Are sexual molesters of children spaths? It would just figure. What goes around comes around and around again it seems – at least in my life.

I begged her maternal side for forgiveness and they wouldn’t give it to me. *tears* can’t talk about this right now… I feel all of the pain of my childhood back in full force at times. PTSD overcomes me. But, I will be okay…I just need to keep calling my granddaughter and sending her cards…one day she will be allowed to visit me in my city again, I’m sure. Meanwhile I can go see her for a day or so…just no overnights. It’s hard because we live 3 to 4 hours away from each other.

We went to the Pacific National Exhibition together while I was in Vancouver about 2 weeks ago and had a blast.

He wasn’t even my boyfriend anymore, but I shared his house and had two bedrooms on the other side of the home thinking everything was great. I had a man nearby and no obligations. Oh how wrong I was. Blind as a bat. Which is weird because usually I’m the first to suspect such perverts being a survivor myself.

That’s why my trust level is zero now. I just have no sense of judgement – or humor – so when Jeremy was playing this cat and mouse game I just stopped it in its’ track.

Did Jeremy give you his phone number? You would think after my complaints to him he would smarten up somewhat. He described himself as very poor…always hinting at money issues.


Thanks for sharing your story Radar..


ALMOSTLOST. I am so sorry about your pooch…I lost my dachshund Harley not long ago, he was 14…I still miss him but am thankful he was in my life for 14 years, he brought me so much love and joy..I gave him a good life and so did you with your pooch …hugs and moonbeams to you and your pooch…

kim frederick

blue moon beams, to your sweet golden friend, almost lost.
I’m so sorry…

Ox Drover

Dear Speaking,

I believe, YES pedophiles are ALL psychopaths, though there may be those that disagree with me….get and read “Predators” by Dr. Anna Salter….it will clear your conscience when you read her book. She is THE world expert on pedophiles. They are SOOOO slick. You could not have known. So quit beating yourself up, okay?

I know it is difficult for you when others blame you and try to keep you from being with your granddaughter, but that is OUT OF YOUR CONTROL, so you just have to work with what you have control over and let the rest go.

I AM so glad that I was there with morgan because he was conscious, alert and knew I was there and we got to say our good byes. I imagine your son was most likely unconscious.

Just FYI though, the night after his funeral I went to bed, and my house was full and my best friend was sleeping on my husband’s side of our bed, and I got in, turned my back to her sleeping form, then felt her touch me on the shoulder like he would do every night if he were in bed before I got there, Just a “pat” and I whirled over and she was soundly asleep with her back still turned to me. It was as if HE TOUCHED ME to say it was okay.

So I don’t think you are crazy to have felt him sit on your bed. Whether this is a visit from beyond the grave or not, in any case it is comforting to us I think.

It has been 8 years since Morgan died, and it took me quite some time to come to full acceptance of that loss, but now I can remember the good times and even cry a sentimental tear now and then but not a painful one. After he was first dead, I was SO lonely and needy I allowed a psychopath to hook up with me and thought I had found an emotional savior….when in fact, he was hutning a new “respectable wife” to CHEAT ON. Now I am okay by myself, no longer needing that reassurance from someone else. I am independent emotionally and other wise.

My adopted son does live with me (he was also in the crash and burned fairly severely) but we have been there for each other and though we both have PTSD, it is improved as time goes on and we are more back to like we were before the crash. I know it will always be DIFFERENT, and I will not be “the same” But I am learning and growing and actually I think I am more healthy emotionally than I was 8 years ago.

I am also able to “let go” and have acceptance about my son Patrick. He is a monster, and he is a danger to me and my other sons..both for financial gain, and for revenge against us…but we will survive that to. I won’t live in terror,, but Ii am CAUTIOUS about him.

As for my delusion that my egg donor and I had this great relationship, I realize now that it was ONLY A DELUSION, we never had a good, much less a great, relationship, it was abusive from the day I was born. I am now able to step away from this FANTASY MOTHER that I had, that was just like the “imaginary friend” I had when I was five and had no other kids close by to play with. I imagined me up a friend…so because I had no loving mother, I “imagined me up” a mother that loved me, but I see she was and is no more real than my friend when I was a lonely kid living in the country without play mates near by.

Life after all is a series of people coming and going in our lives, and of our learning to live good, productive, peaceful and healthy lives. No matter how much you love someone or they love you there is no guarentee that they are there for you or you for them “forever”—in even the most loving relationships, one person usually dies first and the other person must go on.

You ahd a good relationship with your son, and that can never be taken away from you. Treasure those memories. I even treasure the memories of Patrick when he was my “baby boy” and my pre-teen, he was wonderful and I treasure those times I was his mother and he was my son. Now he is a stranger. My son is just as “dead” as yours is, just as “gone.” I even ahd a memorial service for him as I laid him to rest in my heart.

Keep on healing, growing and becoming the person you want yourself to be, and being there for your granddaughter. What happened is in the past, it can’t be changed, but the future can be, so concentrate on what you CAN control.

There are others here on LF who are grandmothers who are not allowed to see their GKs at all, and others who are raising their GKs because the parents are too sorry to do so. So just take control of what you can control, and the rest will work itself out. (((Hugs))) and God bless.


Radar_On, I understand your situation, absolutely. Sometimes, opportunity doesn’t present itself and people are obliged to flee without a plan. In my situation, I had to make decisions that were all uncomfortable – every danged last one was not what I “wanted.”

If you have to make a plan, Radar, do it. I don’t know what State you live in, but nearly all of US States provide for “no-fault” divorce. This is an imperative to understand and accept: no-fault is about “equitable distribution,” only, and marital misconduct may factor in to the settlement if joint funds were used to finance illicit affairs, etc. If you were passed a STD by your spouse, he will be held liable (without much argument) and be forced to make compensation, legally, that cannot be bankrupted in any legal action. The same goes forth with alimony/spousal support, etc.

The reason that I’m noting all of this is so that you have true information to work with. Making a plan, speaking to your local domestic violence hotline, and speaking to a divorce specialist before you take any action or make any decisions would be a very wise group of choices to take. If I had engaged in some type of counseling before I jumped my emotional rails and physically attacked the exspath, things may have turned out quite differently for me. Bus, so be it.

The one thing that is the hardest truth to accept in situations of spath marriages is that things will never, ever, ever “get better.” A sociopath cannot be healed by medication, therapy, surgery, spiritual epiphany, or any combination, thereof. They are, quite simply, walking evil that creage carnage with deliberate intention. They cannot be reasoned with. They will never be reasonable. They will do anything and everything within their power to destroy their targets, on every level, and this means every level. can put you in touch with resources from counseling therapy to legal representation. Check the site out, take a deep breath, and that resolve will begin to ooze in.

Brightest protective blessings


OxD, I agree 200% that anyone who delberately harms a child is probably a sociopath. Adult targets have the opportunity to make choices. Children, on the other hand, have no voice.

AlmostLost, I am so very sorry to read of your losses. I cannot, in my wildest nightmares, imagine what a parent experiences when they lose a child through suicide. Losing a child must be horrific enough, but when someone makes that terrible choice, I just can’t imagine the aftermath.

What I am reading, Almost, is a resolved and courageous survivor. There are so many of you on LoveFraud that invoke courage and inspiration and I cannot express my gratitude for your strength, adequately. Your personal healing and recovery is an absolute inspiration, and I thank you from way down deep.

Your wonderful friend doesn’t know that it has cancer, which is something that I wish we humans could appreciate – our pets live their lives in the moment and they love us regardless of our personal issues.

Brightest blessings and deepest gratitude to you all


Hens, Kim Frederick, and Truthspeak, thank you so much for your kinds words. I hope that I can offer some inspiration to others who are going through what I (and all of us here) have or are currently going through. There was a time that his abuse caused me to have suicidal thoughts, but what stopped me from going further down that dark tunnel, was my children. I knew I could not leave them TO HIM!! That’s when I started praying to God for help; He was there for me and there were some things that happened that showed me His hand was definitely involved.

To those of you still in this nightmare, please get out, and be VERY careful. While I and the kids were in shelter, having left with one of the old cars I got to drive (while he was driving the NEW one paid for by some money I had inherited), he apparently tampered with the other car. When I got back, and he was out of the house with the TRO, I was using the other old car, driving my kids around, and it suddenly broke down …. found out from the mechanic that one of the axles was broken, and the other was ALMOST broken….have been told by several men more familiar with auto mechanics than me, that this kind of thing is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to have happened “on its own”. I suspect he “fixed” it while I was in the shelter, hoping I would crash and he would be free of me! Anyway, be VERY cautious!

And thank you very much for your kind words about my sweet lab…she has had a couple of good days now, and my youngest will be here from out of state in 2 days for a visit, so I am hoping my kids and I will all get a chance to spend some quality time with her before she has to leave. One thought that is also comforting is that she will be met by my son up in Heaven!

And by the way, after my son passed, we did have many instances of things happening to show that his spirit was around us. It was very comforting! It showed me that no matter what, LOVE doesn’t end, even when our physical bodies are gone.

Thank you all, and may you all find peace and strength to survive the madness and come to a place of bright, new beginnings!




Dear Radar, my story was similar to yours except encapsulated in three short months before I got out. I had never been subjected to those types of lies and gaslighting, lies about other women, etc. It was all a new experience for me, and I thank my lucky stars I got out when I did. After the first 3 weeks of love bombing, the rest of the brief affair was a trip straight to hell, waiting for calls that never came, no shows, and bizarre behavior – mostly lies and unkept promises. Like you, I wanted to believe until the evidence hit me in the face. You just can never imagine a person can lie so convincingly!

I had dated a variety of different types of men before I met the spath, so I’m not especially a spath magnet. However, I still had to take responsibility for what it was inside of me that was so susceptible to the love bombing and what made me look the other way for the 3 months of lies and stories that didn’t add up. In the same way, eventually, when you muddle through the murky divorce, you will need to look at what it is in you that has made you so susceptible to these types of relationships. The ONLY silver lining in a story like this is that you have the power to take responsibility for your life, to realize that you made certain decisions, to understand why you made those decisions, and to make better decisions next time. You can also forgive yourself for those decisions. I am also 52 and single but hopeful that I will meet a truly wonderful man. Therefore, I can say with complete certainty that there is still a life ahead of you waiting to be lived. If you can focus on what you want in your life, it may help to minimize all the drama you will need to go through in breaking free of your spath husband. He came into your life to show you that you still have unresolved issues. So now you can resolve them once and for all.

I wish you the very best, and I’m so sorry for your suffering, remembering 4 years ago when I was suffering over a similar monster.


Almost Lost, your story about your son broke my heart. I know I cannot imagine what it must be like to live through this. I never had children but have gotten very attached to a few cats over the years. My last one who was born on my bed just died in February at the age of 19 (almost 19). I still am devastated by the loss. So I send my condolences for all of your losses.


Stargazer, AlmostLost, Truthspeak, strongawoman, bluejay, 2nd_chance, Eralyn, Ox Drover, thank you all for your advice and input. Greatly appreciate your time in sharing your insight! Stargazer, you said: “The ONLY silver lining in a story like this is that you have the power to take responsibility for your life, to realize that you made certain decisions, to understand why you made those decisions, and to make better decisions next time. You can also forgive yourself for those decisions.” This is the level that I’m working on, at the moment. Introspection, as to why I fell for this! It has always, (it seems) been that I tend to give people the “benefit of the doubt”, and have always tried to see the “good” in people. Have to be aware of the chinks in the armor, lest this happens again???? AlmostLost, so very sorry for your loss. I have 4 children myself, and just cannot imagine… Best wishes to all!


Stargazer, thank you for the condolences. I appreciate them very much! Having a beloved pet for as long as you did, I can see that you would be as devastated as I was. Our pets are our “family” as much as our human family members! Please accept my condolences to you with the loss of your 19 year old cat. 🙂 I’m sure you were a good “mama” to your kitty!

Radar_On, thank you, too, for your sentiments. I have gone through that introspection phase that you are dealing with now…wondering how I ended up with someone like HIM!! But as I learned more about personality disorders and had my eyes opened quite widely (!) by all that I learned, I noticed those same types of behaviors in a couple of my family members, and as I looked at these individuals with a newly educated perspective, things I didn’t understand before, suddenly made sense! I have been like you, giving others the benefit of the doubt, and too many chances sometimes—-only to be disappointed or hurt. I now pay close attention to the red flags. As Ox Drover has said, as far as lying, “once and done”! If I catch someone in a lie, I back off. The ex lied all the time, and for many years, I didn’t know he was so immoral. Now I protect myself, first! My circle of friends is smaller than it used to be, but those friends are true, kind, and honest!

Best wishes to you all in your journey toward healing and peace!


Radar, I’m like you as far as seeing the best in people. In fact, my friends compare me a lot to Polyanna. But I was fortunate in that I was astute enough to figure out after only a few months that something wasn’t adding up. I got out early before the type of devastation happened that you have been through. And STILL, even after only a few months, it took me a full year to recover. During that time, I went through a phase where not only did I not trust people, but I stopped seeing the good in them, only the bad. I wondered if I’d ever bounce back. And gradually I did, but a little wiser now. I still look for the good in people, and I don’t think it’s a bad thing – at least with normal people. When you see the best in people (normal people), they usually tend to live up to what you see in them. At least that has been my experience. The spath did not take my good nature away from me or my ability to look on the positive side of things. I will not give him that. The difference is that now I know what love bombing is, and now I know that when someone’s stories are not adding up, I should suspect a spath. I was naive before.

Almost Lost, thank you for your kind words. I don’t know if I’ll ever stop missing my cat and the other one who died in 2010 – the Siamese. They will always be my babies. You are right. They were family and, at times, my reason for living.


I have to say that I used to be one of those people who tried to find the good in everyone. Everyone deserved a second chance, and the benefit of the doubt.

Today, I’m not that person. I don’t typically allow for the “benefit of the doubt” to even whisper into my ear, anymore, especially after the experiences with the colleague’s girlfriend. Nope. If someone is behaving badly, I don’t care what their “excuse” might be. If someone had a difficult childhood, or a hard job, or this, or that….everyone has had personal experiences that they could point to and say, “See that? That’s why I got snippy with you, the other day. I had a Bad Childhood, so I can’t help it.”

Today, I hold people accountable (including myself) for their actions and choices, and if they refuse to stand accountable and correct themselves, I have no use for them. Plain and simple.

Brightest blessings


Truthspeak, I like what you said ” …and if they refuse to stand accountable and correct themselves, I have no use for them. Plain and simple.”

This is what I’ve been becoming better able to do. I have studied a lot about forgiveness, too. And I found a great website for adults (aimed at females, but also applies to men) that is a Christian webite. Luke 17:3 ministries. com. Great information there, from a Christian perspective. And Luke 17:3 points out that if a person who has wronged you admits it, repents, and asks for forgiveness (and of course is SINCERE), we are expected to forgive. BUT, if the other person refuses to repent or change, it is okay to walk away…God doesn’t expect us to do more than He himself will do…

God also doesn’t expect us to accept abuse!! So it is okay to walk away from someone who continues to abuse us without any sign of remorse or conscience. This has helped me so much with the narc/spaths? in my own family. Because I no longer accept their abuse and lies, I am called the “one who’s broken the family.” I stand up for myself and tell the truth; too bad if they don’t want to be called on their own garbage!!

Stargazer, your last kitties would want you to be happy…is it time to find another kitty?? I’m already thinking about a new puppy. I will wait a bit, but my lab has been my buddy for all of her life, and since I live alone, she has helped me tremendously. So once she passes and joins my son and other lab up in Heaven, I will begin thinking about a replacement pup. Our pets give us so much unconditional love. They don’t lie to us and hurt us with spath behavior (thank God!!).

Remember that grief is the price for loving someone, whether that someone is human or an animal pet. So even though we know that a pet most likely will pass before us, since they have a shorter lifespan…I think sharing that love is worth the grief we will someday face when our pet friend has to go.

Take care of yourself!



I met spath online Christian dating service christian mingle. Everything he had said in his profile was so convincing and seemed like he was a mature christian. In actuality he was looking for a wife to be a front for him so he could have some kind of appearance of respectability. However he knew with marriage came a sharing of debt turns out he owed IRS 25K owed State as well, his parents bought his house to keep him from losing it to the IRS lien, he wanted my house…etc… etc… he was so heavily into sexual hookups and extreme ponography…he would speak elonquently about holiness and purity and how was such a holy and good christian man… Everyhting, Everything the complete opposite… He also carried guns and knives as gas cans in case he ever got into a situation he said…. these are the areas have to watch out for the most…


The sad part is… his parents know he is not normal and know about the ponography he has been into for years and yet they keep telling him what a wonderful man he is… and continue to pay for his sexual promiscuity and bills due to lack of work. What’s worse is he has a gun collection and practices constantly at the local gun club…. which makes him dangerous…he was booted off of the website Christian Mingle… but fought his way back and they have him on there again… trying to lure more innocent christian females. When I broke up with him he began a smear campaign against my reputation that is shocking.. and yet continued to say what a good christian man he was… and his parents would say my son is a good christian man how can you do this to him? I had no idea people like this existed… Donna thank you for your website I have learned so much…to everyone on here… thank you.. your stories have helped me understand and to believe there is life after a sociopath. After reading the article “how to get revenge for a sociopath is no contact but to purpose to live the very best life that you can is the best revenge ever… This is now my motto. My prayer is that God would heal us all and help us to have the best life possible.

Ox Drover

Dear Skysong,

Jesus points out that there will be wolves in sheep’s clothing come into the church after He is gone, so why are you surprised that this man presented himself as a good Christian? What better way to get next to someone than to pretend to be aChristian.

Jesus aid “By their fruits ye shall know them.”

We must constantly be on alert that these fake Christians are not allowed to get close to us, so even with our brothers and sisters we must WATCH WHAT THEY DO, (their fruits) not just listen to what they SAY.

So glad you have found your way here…and hope you will stick around. There are literally almost a thousand good articles here to learn from written by people who experienced the trauma the betrayal….read and learn. Knowledge is power. The power to heal ourselves.


Skysong, Appreciate your input. Just wow……again. I don’t feel so bad anymore, since I came to LF. I had no idea these kinds of evil people were out there…especially in Churches!!!! God’s justice will prevail, ultimately…..however people that use God, church, Christianity, and so on for their dirty deeds; which include pastors, deacons, etc…..their “just recompense of reward” will be all the more stiff!!! Best wishes to you…:)

I also appreciate your input. It is the straw that broke my camels back.

For years, I’ve know many people who collect guns and also carry concealed. The logic they use makes sense: if nobody carried guns, only criminals would carry guns.

When I was 15, I dated a 29 year old pedophile who carried concealed and collected guns. 3 years later I ran into him and he said he had changed. He got rid of his guns and no longer collected guns. He said that when he got rid of them, he no longer thought about danger. It was the guns themselves that made him paranoid. As long as he carried guns he had to justify his choice. That justification was that he NEEDED to protect himself.

I’ve come to understand that Paranoia is a basic component of psychopathy. All spaths are paranoid, they can’t trust anyone.

This is not an easy decision, but one thing I do know is that the spath is not after your life, so much as he is after your soul. By being afraid, you give him your soul. It’s a fine line. Can you carry a gun and not be paranoid? Then do it. If it affects how you think, then forget about it.

In the end it is more about us than it is about them. Keep learning and studying. The answers are out there. One of my favorites is Rene Girard.


Skysong, I am going to type something that I sincerely hope you read with the understanding that I’m not trying to malign your beliefs, or anyone else’s. God doesn’t heal us from our spath experiences. We heal ourselves. What he/she/it DOES do is to provide opportunity for lessons to be learned. We are given a choice: learn, or not. Each of us has already been given what we need to heal – we just need to use what we’ve been given and take those steps on our own through counseling, support groups, posting on LoveFraud, or whatever it takes to place our feet on our own healing paths.

My experience with organized religions has, for the most part, been utterly disappointing and that is simply because mortal human beings have given themselves the false belief that they can interpret God’s Rules for their own purposes of control. Personal beliefs are very, very powerful and exactly what a spath wants to destroy.

What’s the first thing that an invading nation does to the vanquished? It takes away their system of beliefs. Then, it takes away their culture and language. That’s what spaths do when they acquire source targets: they dismantle the human being’s strengths and beliefs and recreates a system of fear-based beliefs and exploited vulnerabilities.

It IS about us, ultimately. What the exspath did (and, continues to do) is repellant, vile, illegal, and deliberate. But, so what? Those are his choices, not mine. Will God exact retribution or accountability? How am I supposed to predict something that I can’t even comprehend?

There is a very good reason that mortal and flawed human beings are not equipped to exact revenge at their whims. If I had the ability, I would “out” the exspath for what he’s done and see that he never has the opportunity to victimize another human being. But, I don’t have that power. The only power that I have is over my own choices and actions. That’s it, and that’s all.

So, whenever I hear someone talking about what God expects, demands, will do, and how vengeful he/she/it will be, I can see through the smoke and mirrors and simply walk away.

Brightest healing blessings


To clarify on spaths and Christianity: spaths and religion go together like tea and honey. Why? When a person’s beliefs are defined, structured, and dictated by another human being, that person’s control has been handed over to “an elder” or “a deacon” or “a layperson” who has the potential to dismantle and destroy.

Power is intoxicating for anyone, even “normal” empaths. For spaths, it is the most coveted position imaginable – power over the thoughts, choices, and actions of others. Spath uses beliefs as if they were baited lures – if you want to get into Heaven, you’d better trust my direct line to God, and HE says that you have to engage in sex with me, pay me a percentage of your income, and turn on the other members that aren’t going along with HIS program.

Personally, I refuse to go along with anyone’s program.


I feel as if I’ve been reading part of my life with my ex-spath.
When he molested my daughter, I had the police kick him out. They accompanied him to our home where he was allowed to fetch his clothes and car and leave all house keys and remotes behind.
That same night, he claims he wanted to commit suicide for most evil thing he had done, but “thankfully’ our minister spoke to him and low and behold, he gave his life to God. I believed every word, yet it was an act of saving his own arse from Jail. He went to a Psychologist daily, whom he fooled all the way. He became an active member in the church and all our congregation thought he was this most wonderful caring father and husband. Oh yes, he was these nice things but only as long as he remained in control of me and my daughter. I took him back after a separation of 8mths, dropped all charges against him and re-took our wedding vows. All of it- every single bit of it – was a lie. They are evil, cruel humans that don’t deserve to breathe in fresh, free air. they belong in jail, yet most of them manipulate us to such an extent that we lose all credibility.

I hope that you will stay strong, and don’t let him catch you or break you down enough, or even sweeten you enough to get you to confess what you are doing.


Shell, the cloak of religion is very dense and heavy – it’s very difficult for individuals who hold to specific doctrines to accept the truth that some people are beyond redemption. THIS one doctrine is what feeds the power/control trips of sociopaths where religion is concerned.

Prison psychologists….I don’t have much time for them. They have their own “doctrines” to entertain: convicts are worthy and deserving of rehabilitation and understanding. And, that is 100% USDA Bullshit.

I keep suggesting that someone form Spath Island somewhere in the dead center of the South Pacific right on the equator. Put them ALL on the island, give them some seeds and livestock, and adios!

Brightest blessings


Hello Skylar, Just out of curiosity, and since you are so well versed in descriptives (I find many of your posts most thought provoking), may I ask you to describe the aspects of Rene Girard (his philosophies) that make him “one of your favorites”? Many thanks!


Hi Shell, after reading your post, so much anger and hostility welled up in me, for you and your daughter! Grrrrrrrrrrr! It is obvious to me on this side of knowing the truth, (and still learning) about these “demons in meat-suits”, that they are definitely parasitic in nature, and this evil is drawn (like a moth to a flame) to goodness in normal folks, to feed off of, and drain us for their purposes….until there is nothing left for them; then they move on to their next “host”. It grieves my heart to hear what he did to your daughter! I have 3 girls (grown up now), and cannot imagine that happening to one of mine! However, I know what I would do if that were to ever happen to my grandaughters! For the most part, am staying reasonably strong, no, he will not break me down, nor could he ever “sweeten” me to the point of any………”awwww, honey…it’s ok. I forgive you…” All I feel for this worthless, pisa s**t is venomous hostility and hate. The only reason he is still able to move about in his daily life, is the fact that he is not worth me going to jail… least not right now! Best wishes to you and your daughter, Shell! 🙂


Truthspeak, you are absolutely correct…the cloak of religion is very dense and heavy ”“ it’s very difficult for individuals who hold to specific doctrines to accept the truth that some people are beyond redemption. THIS one doctrine is what feeds the power/control trips of sociopaths where religion is concerned. I could not have phrased this any better! Best to you, Truthspeak!


AlmostLost, I will never get another cat. I’ve raised a total of 5, and now they are gone. I don’t want to go through it again, and I don’t want the responsibility at this time in my life. I enjoy the freedom and the little extra money. I still have two animals, and I love them dearly, though boa constrictors would not be everyone’s choice for a cuddly pet (they are cuddly to me).

Just to clarify, when I talk about seeing the good in people, I am not referring to overlooking dysfunction. I can often see someone’s basic goodness even when they can’t. That doesn’t mean I let them walk all over me. Big difference. I also apply this to myself – I’m starting to see my own beauty, too (this is very recent) and what a really great, deep, kind, warm, gentle, and unusual person I am. I have always only seen the good qualities in others but could not see them in myself until very recently. However, I’m not an enabler. If I sense someone is being very needy or imposing, or not taking responsibility for themselves or their own lives, I will cut them off with the blink of an eye. I demand a high degree of accountability in myself and in those I call my friends.

If you click on my name, you can read about it on my website,
But I’ll try to summerize here.

His work on mimesis explains the spaths. Rene just talks about mimesis and examples of it throughout history, in our culture (it’s extensive). When you read his works (for example, A Theater of Envy) you can see that he is talking about envy, rivalry, shame, lack of being, substitution, symbolism, victimization, substitute victims, desire for power, control, etc…

He first called it “mimetic desire”, not “envy”. He explains that human desire is sparked by what we see others desire. As more people desire the same things, we become more alike, we become like clones of each other. Spaths are that way. They want what others have, right down to the BEING of others, their identities. They are filled with envy.

IMO, this is because mimesis is more prominent in a “blank slate” like a child. Someone who is just born doesn’t have their own identity, their own preferences based on experience. They look to others to show them what is desirable, what is “good”. Spaths, being emotionally arrested, are like infants. They don’t want anything except what YOU want. If you’re eating something, it suddenly inspires them to want the same thing. The car you drive, your house, your style, your hair, the look on your face, all inspire envy. They want to BE you, because they don’t have their own BEing. But there can be only one. So somebody has to die. You do, so he can stop being envious of you.

I could go on and on. That’s just one small bit, Rene’s work is extensive. Rene calls his work, “an anthropology of the cross”.


Thanks so much for that explanation, which is actually the identical description of ex Bastard. Was Girard a P, or did he just analyze them as such? Maybe a stupid question, due to the fact that he is “one of your favorites”. The ex Bastard despised my happiness. He started to use suttle means of torture with me, however, I am very intuitive, and even the suttleness was apparent, and thats’ when I bolted. Then I began to have flashbacks and realized that he had been gaslighting me. Such a miserable menace. Still realing in some ways. Getting better as each day goes by, however. Thanks again!
~ Shane


Stargazer, I was always an enabler (unwittingly, and wittingly) – I was that needy that I would go along with the program to avoid the “unthinkable” of being alone and “unloved.”

Today, I don’t give a fart in a windstorm. I cannot see myself attached to anyone in any form. Even friends are suspect, and this is a serious issue that I’ll overcome in due time.

Brightest blessings!


Shell, because of my past experiences with organized religions, I am very, very hesitant to become involved with any place of worship of any kind.

Even civic groups are breeding grounds for spaths – any venue where one exercises power and/or control is off limits to me.

The thing about spaths and religion is that beliefs are so powerfully important to human beings and they can be so thoroughly trampled by bad people. It was my flawed beliefs that allowed the exspath to use me and my finances to fund his activities and provide the cloak of respectability for over a decade. So….beliefs are powerful, and spaths crave power.

Brightest blessings


You couldnt of picked a better user name.. You speak the truth and it come’s through loud and clear , cause I agree with so much of what you say and how you feel. jus sayin

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