Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a woman who we’ll call Lorraine. She is 51 years old and lives in Australia. The name of the man she was involved with has been changed.
I became involved with David, 49, after joining up to the dating site in September last year when I was emotionally down after a divorce and being on my own for awhile. I have heard both good and bad stories about online romances and was fully aware of women being ripped off financially. Well that was never going to happen to me, for I am too smart for that. But quite clearly not too smart for being taken emotionally.
Within days of placing my profile complete with photo of myself I had received lots of requests for contact by men, most not suitable at all. Amongst the requests was one from a man whose profile was flawless. A person professionally employed with a good Christian background. Fit and healthy and having a teenage daughter in his care much of the time.
I accepted his contact request and we clicked straight away. Had lots in common, both employed in the medical profession, both had three children, he three grown daughters, me — three grown sons. Both loved walking, cycles, the outdoors, markets, gardening, same type of music. We chatted merrily away, night after night for hours, about anything and everything including things one only tells one’s closest friends.
For three weeks, until one nice pleasant but very quiet weekend afternoon, I went online and he was there. He said it would be nice to meet and have my company for a chat for an hour before he collected his daughter from his ex-wife’s. Sounded safe enough. And it was. I even thought he was nicer in person. When I left he asked if he could give me a kiss, and I accepted the small peck on the cheek. How lovely. What a gentleman, I thought. It left me wanting to see him again. The second time a week later when he invited me to his house he had lovely mood candles burning, a gorgeous meal prepared and the right soft music on. And there was that chemistry between us and he told me that he thought I was “hot.”
Notch on the bedpost
Very romantic and easy to communicate with. I was on another planet. But also I was vulnerable and found myself really liking and trusting David. And as the evening went by one thing led to another! Just perfect. Who could ask for anything more!
But make no mistake, once I had become a notch on his bedpost the conquest was over for him. The game had been played. And he was already well on his way in grooming his next victim online.
I know he is very selective, he picks only good, honest women with high morals, that way there are far less risks for him. And he told me nothing. Zero. He just stopped communicating with me. End of story.
I was left totally and utterly shattered and emotionally scarred by it. I saw him online chatting to others but he refused to acknowledge me.
So I chose to confront him personally. I jumped in my car and I drove the one hours drive to his place. (I knew he was home because he was online chatting to someone else at 10 p.m. but would not return my request for contact.) He was shocked to see me — totally. He could not look me in the face. He fidgeted and behaved much the same as a naughty boy who has been caught out but was too scared to admit it. He tried to maintain composure. He said that he is grieving for his mother who is dying from cancer. And that there isn’t anyone else and that he just wanted to be by himself. Then he stated that I was intelligent, good-looking and will find someone else. And he added, “We’ll both be fine. Everything will be alright.”
Talking with other women
The first time I initially had contact with David last year and after a couple of weeks chatting online he suggested communicating through MSN via internet email as it is more personal and that I didn’t need to go on the dating site to communicate as they are full of strange people wanting contact. He then hid his profile and I thought maybe I was special because he had given me his undivided attention. He then removed me from his “contacts” on the dating site.
But when I checked the online dating site, usually very late at night, there he was online, no doubt conversing to other women. I do recall in about the second week of chatting to him on the net and before I actually met him that David mentioned that he was on some type of suicide watch for a friend and may need to go in a hurry. Well that call came and he said he had to go and help his friend in need. The next evening on the net I remember him referring to it when asked by me, he said that it was a long, long night. “Someone was drunk in their car, and there were lots and lots of tears. But everything would be alright,” he said.
I was not to know then just how significant this was until weeks later when going over things again and again in my head. It all fell into place.
“Lots and lots of tears” obviously meant female. And I have now worked out that this female was likely a person he became involved with as he began chatting to me online. When her usefulness ceased, that is, he achieved his notch on the bedpost, he told her their relationship would not work. Yet another poor deluded soul, led to think there could be more but let down in a cold, callous and calculating manner.
Life lesson
So from all of this I strongly felt that David needed to be taught a real life lesson. Users on these dating sites are real life people with real feelings and emotions. I felt he needed to hurt, and in exactly the same way he was hurting vulnerable women who would open up to him — like myself.
Does not matter if you think you are the sharpest tool in the toolbox. If you are new to these dating sites — beware. You are raw meat. Ready for the taking. Long time players will regularly scour the new additions and quickly request contact before others do.
Read more: Online seduction and the dangers of online dating
Then when I began to play him at his own game I was terrified he would catch on straight away, as I find it near impossible to lie and keep a straight face. But remember that online, on internet dating sites, all that is being conveyed is around 25 percent of the actual communication.
The other person cannot see you, or you them. And I know that body language counts for around 75 percent of what is being conveyed. Could I do this? Could I carry off the lie? Well as it happened — yes, I could. Wasn’t as difficult as I thought. If he could see me he would have known, but he couldn’t.
I became Jo
I placed a new profile on the dating site and became “Jo” in late January 2010, and made up a background similar to my own. I felt myself writing what I knew he would want to hear. I needed him to take the bait. And he did. Almost instantly. It only confirmed to me what I had already discovered over recent months that did not quite add up.
David’s first contact with Jo was the day after his mother, whom he supposedly adored, died. Strange behaviour when one is grieving! Chatting on line for one hour to “Jo,” whom he knew nothing about, yet telling her that he had no one to hug!!!!!!
Then telling Jo that he has been on the site for over two years and hasn’t had any luck, and hasn’t had a date in 14 years! I thought and what about me, or the others, whom he just so readily discarded!!! Liar!
Also in the three weeks of being Jo online, David at no stage asked what line of work Jo was in, or even where Jo lived, which was good in one way, because I did not need to lie, however it did highlight how he was so self-focused.
My aim of playing him at his own game was to keep him interested, wanting more, wanting the real deal. Getting him to ask me to his place would be even better as I knew he would go to some length to get it right. Mood candles, soft music and red wine!
Agreed to meet
It happened just the way I planned on Friday evening, February 12, 2010. Three weeks after chatting to him online and developing a rapport, he was clearly very eager to meet Jo. No less than six times throughout chatting to him on Friday early evening he hinted at Jo meeting him with comments such as, “I had a delivery of wine today — come let’s try one.” “I might ask you over — or let my hormones take over.” “There’s at least seven bottles of red to choose from here — come choose one.” “You deserve a back rub for daring to talk about my mum and how I feel about it — no one else wants to know it happened.”
After stringing him along for awhile, Jo agreed to meet him at his place and he gave a very detailed description of how to get there in exactly the same way he had to me. Jo then left him with the final message of “Looking forward to meeting you. You sound so nice and friendly.” And, “I shall arrive in my nice shiny black convertible, shall I?” And he said, “So off ya go and come on over — much more fun talking than typing.” Of course Jo then did NOT turn up.
At 10:50 that night, David left a message for Jo online: “David wonders what happened to Jo — hope you weren’t snapped up by crocodile, not been fed to a shark — and that you didn’t do this to wind me up — though that would seem very out of character from the chats we had — catch you whenever I s’pose.”
And: “P.S. I would really like to honestly know what happened and why — so please chat and tell me.”
Just perfect, I thought. It would leave him now wondering why and maybe feeling rejected, just like I had.
Advice for Internet dating
Now, my advice to anyone new to any of the Internet dating sites is to first check out how long the other person has been on the site. If more than a few months, beware. Secondly, when you are communicating with someone on these sites, remember you are actually only getting about 25 percent of the communication. You do not see them or their body responses; all you get is a motionless computer screen. Thirdly, it might be wiser and safer to communicate only with other new users, and stay well away from those who have joined many, many months ago or years! Let the alarm bells ring.
When I joined again as Jo several months after the first time, there were again the same large group of men whom had requested contacts with me the first time!!!
In conclusion, David has an obsession with these sites, much the same way as an addict has to gambling or a smoker to smoking. The addiction is either about gaining power over women or is a sex addiction. Yet, in real life David functions at a high level. He does have friends and is quite social, even having a weekly home church group meeting at his house. Yet on the chat line he says he is alone and feels unwanted.
David lives in a fantasy world, in a made up one, when on the Internet. The real sad part of all of this for me is that underneath the entire act David puts on, he seems like a lovely man who is highly confused and has lost his way with reality.
Net addiction
Through personal research I have now found some good sites on the Internet that outline what “net addiction” or “Internet dating addiction” or “cyber-addiction” is. Internet addiction is a growing, serious public health issue. And those that are addicted can be quite callous towards unsuspecting others. America has even considered this cyber-addiction to be included in the DSM V of Mental Health Disorders. It can be seen as the new growing social cancer of our century.
But how David could do this to innocent women, and repetitively, knowing he has three teenage daughters himself, is beyond comprehension. How would he like it if one of his daughters fell foul to someone just like him?
Finally, if my story can just stop this from happening to other females then that is a bonus. If what I did by becoming the player myself hurts him like he has clearly and deliberately hurt many women over a lengthy period of time then I will be very happy indeed. And my job is done.
So regardless of where you live, not just Australia, let the Internet user beware. It could cost you significantly emotionally, which will take you a long time to recover from.
Playing “The Player”
Everyone comes into one’s life for a reason. And I now firmly believe David came into mine because I was the right person to take him on and turn the tables on him. By playing “The Player,” it gave me the chance to regain my self-esteem and confidence and gain some kind of closure. My aim was to show him that one cannot use and emotionally abuse innocent people who initially come online and are often very vulnerable by those who are masters at “the game.”
I think I will stay well away from the Internet dating sites for the time being. I need to heal and become the calm, relaxed person with the happy disposition I was before.
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on April 2, 2010.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I felt bonded, even though this made me nauseated
Blue eyes, I didn’t mean to insinuate that you wished him HARM but you are right, they do bring harm on to themselves with their choices. Yes, anyone with no conscience, health problems and poor relationship stability and so on, is in a “world of hurt” just by themselves.
He may have had a “hard life” growing up, but that is NOT what caused him to be a psychopath, it is a CHOICE as well as a genetic tendency, is my opinion, for what it is worth. They may not bond as well as others can and do, but they know RIGHT from WRONG, mean from nice, and they make the choice to choose wrong and mean rather than right and nice.
It is their loss as well, but unfortunately many of them can be classed as EVIL. An archaic word,, but one that rings of truth.
ANY HIV+ person who is still in the dating market is evil.
That was in fact made very clear by a group of women in Texas who won a class action suit against someone who infected them knowingly.
Blue eyes, thank the Angels that slowed him down to protect you and LET GO. There is nothing to feel sorry for.
He made his decisions. Now you make yours.
Its not funny. You came way too close.
Get strong, get real, get clear or risk getting sick.
Sociopaths and psychopaths will always leave you out in the cold and they make the concious decision to do it too.
Cold as it seems, these are not caring individuals. They use, devalue and dump people. And they don’t feel badly about it.
Let go.
Think most of us here haven’t made that same bargain in the effort to hold onto what we thought was good, right, real and true?
You can’t be the coyote who howls pleading to the moon for the lost love’s redemption. You have to be more like the one who chews its own leg off to get out of the trap.
Yeah, it HURTS when you have to bite down hard to the bone.
But considering they’d eat all of you, the freedom is worth it.
Cowboy up.
BailyG ”“ I don’t know if you have been back today or not. I am writing this offline and just posting it. I have had a hellish day and need to not read and get further triggered (that happens sometime and it is important to pay attention to the need to step back a bit).
First, read lots here. Post and ask questions. The old guard here who have moved through all the things you are facing will offer great practical advice. And the rest of us, who are learning, will pitch as we learn and will be supportive ”“ we ALL know what these people are and what they do. One of my specialties is spath to English translation. Have an email that makes you want to throw up? I can decode it. For instance, you noted: “If you would just act like a normal person I wouldn’t get mad and curse and scream at you”. This one’s easy. Now that word ’normal’ means submissive and under his control, and here it has been used as a sprinkle in the shame and blame game. Now, this might not seem like a super power, but when we need to know or need to remember that it is THEM and not us, it comes close. They seem to have a limited number of moves ”“ both individually and collectively. Some are smarter or more violent than others, some are addicts and some are criminals and many are adulterers”“ but they ALL gaslight, shame, blame, hold us in contempt, love-bomb us, wear masks that slip, hurt, LIE, LIE, LIE and couldn’t care less about us. There are more things, but I am tired and that’s enough pain to swallow in one list.
Collectively we can walk you through the steps you will need to take. Right now you say you can’t leave because of a lack of resources. Over time that will turn into maybe I can, how can I do it, and how to deal with his counter moves when you do.
In regards to hurting him. If I was certain of the spathiness of any creature and I could get away with it, I would shoot them all. Because it would SAVE the world. But I can’t be certain, and it isn’t legal, and I am not going to jail and have to deal with the ones that live THERE. That’s how I feel, deep inside me. I have never seen anything so meaningless and destructive in my life as spaths. If someone would have offed my spath literally hundreds of people would not have suffered. So, I guess that’s my creds. Re wanting to literally hurt them.
Hurting them legally: I am in the process of gathering evidence (have been doing this for months) and dealing with AG and a lawyer. We may get a class action suit together. The spath made a mistake and I have been able to do much because of ONE mistake.
You MUST stop telling him how you feel. STOP volunteering info that he will use to hurt you. STOP sacrificing yourself ”“ he isn’t all of a sudden going to ’get’ it and become loving. You can’t love him into being anything but what he is. You have to start to protect yourself.
Collect any information that you can. Store it out of the house. They do trip up. NEVER EVER tell him what you are doing. Don’t allude to it, don’t smirk, nada. You have to go covert. Do not tell his friends or family what you are doing. Gather and wait. Wait until you are safely out of there, and until the opportunity comes. Be patient. The idea is to trip him up, not to get hurt in the process.
If you are like me and many if not most of us here at one point, you are running on vapor. It is hard to recognize how devastated and depleted we really are. We want to charge ahead blasting our guns ”“ we have every reason to want to do this, but ”.we need to stand still a bit and take care, we are so exhausted that we cannot see the depth of the exhaustion. So, go slow, and take care. I know many others here will council you to this. I won’t spend much time on it. I also know that many will council you not to try to trip him up as can be very dangerous and will take energy that you need for yourself. I walk a line with this. I know both things to be true for me”“ I need to take care of myself AND I have to walk down the road of slowing the spath down via legal means, and do that as safely as possible. In the nd dear Baily, it is not about them, but about us and our lives and hearts and right to live in peace, integrity and joy.
Start posting about how you might get to the point of having the resources you need to leave ”“ people here will help you figure some of this out. I don’t know your circumstances, so won’t offer ideas here about what might help, but will say get out and walk if you are well. Every day. You need to put yourself in the best possible physical and mental health to cope with this situation and to move towards the door.
Mother Theresa was a strong resilient woman who deeply questioned her faith, and acted ’as if’.
Best,
One step
silvermoon – i am sure you meant that any person who is hiv + and is not up front/ is lying about their status.
Dear Silvermoon,
You know, your analogy about chewing our legs off to get out of the TRAP is a good one. I thought I was the queen of the analogy and metaphhor here, but you topped me on that one! GOOD JOB and you know that is EXACTLY what we have to do.
In the end that is all we can DO is to survive and cut off part of ourselves if we have to….but the psychopaths are willing to sacrifice US.
Yes, I saw the 20/20 (or dateline or whtever it was) show about that guy and they did a great job getting him prosecutred. I can’t remember his name now but there is a thread here on it as well. He got 45 years though for knowingly infecting them. He deserves it! He will die in prison. He still denies it in spite of the EVIDENCE that he had known his HIV+ status for over 10 years before he was with any of these women.
In these days of diseases that are sexually transmitted and there are MANY besides HIV that are frequently fatal, when someone “cheats” or “lies” they are putting someone else at RISK —but it also behooves us to protect ourselves.
I used to teach STD information to college students and they all seem to think that “not gonna happen to ME” but it does, and can be life altering or ending. Also the FASTEST growing segment of population getting STDS are people in the over 40 crowd because they are not as well educated and think “older folks don’t get this” WRONG. But even “SAFE-ER sex” is not SAFE, condoms are not fool proof for contraception, so sure aren’t for diseases spread by sexual contact.
We just have to realize that sex is some serious business again. Before antibiiotics, lots of people died or had their lives ruined and health and mental health (which some caused insanity in later stages) so we got to feel after antibiotics it was “safe” or “cureable” but NOT ANY MORE—HIV, Hepatitis, herpes, HPV, and others are BAD NEWS.
Which is one more way that psychopaths ruin lives….
onestep You deserve a big hug~!
Hi everyone,
Firstly, I thank you to all those who have posted relevant comments in response to my story ‘When The Player becomes the Played’.
I actually met with this man several times over a three month period and want to clarify that my experience was not a one night stand, so when I did finally work out that he is a player I was deeply hurt as he gave me the impression he was looking for a long term relationship.
I must say from the outset of playing my player, never did I expect that what I did would make much of a difference to him in the long run. But I strongly felt I NEEDED to do it and it gave me satisfaction in doing so. It made a big difference to me. And it also certainly did highlight how easy it is to deceive online. I felt very disempowered by this man & I needed my self-esteem and power back.
But my greater satisfaction has come from then placing a very specific and unique profile on the Australian dating site concerned. I now only chat to females, with the sole aim of informing them all about players online. This has been more successful than I initially thought it would be. I have chatted to around 100 women on this site in just over six weeks since I first put the profile on.
I have listened to their stories and many have had similar experiences with players online. It is so sad and it makes me both annoyed and angry. I do inform them about Lovefraud.com and also refer them to do a google search on an article written by Pamela Bailey titled ‘Spotting the Player in the Online-Dating Game’. This 5 page article is spot on and it is a MUST READ for all female members joining an online dating site.
Just this week in a national Australian magazine there is a 2 page story about a Victorian lady who rejected a mans physical advances after she met him on a dating site. He then stabbed her several times in the neck, stole some personal items from her and left her for dead. She did survive but has been left with serious damage for life.
Also making news, a young South Australian 14 year old girl (Carly Ryan) was deceived by a 50 year old man on the net who made out he was 20 years old. Thus, she fell in love with a fantasy online. Ultimately when she discovered his deceipt and rejected his advances after she met him, he lured her to an isolated beach and killed her. This man, Garry Francis Newman, 50, looks very normal, but is a psychopath.
These are just two examples of psychopaths online.
And I ask you just what does a sociopath/psychopath look like? Who can tell? The fact is you can’t as they look very normal, and that goes a long way in how they deceive others.
Yes, there is evil on the net.
It is the perfect vehicle in which to hide and create a fantasy. Whether it be a scammer after money, a player after sex, or other deviants, they are there, and there are lots of them.
Dishonest & disrespectful players who are simply after sex but let others think they are sincere and looking for a long term relationship ultimately can cause great hurt to their victims. They may leave them feeling severely depressed, and to also doubt themselves and think they are going insane. The very real possibility here is victims may then attempt to harm themselves as players are very good at blaming the victim (Gaslighting).
Cheers, Lorraine
Kim-
I saw your post.
Get copies of the documents that he used to get the mortgage money.
Go see an attorney.
If you are still married, you may have a problem and a case.
The money owing on the house will be part of the divorce settlement if you are divorcing and if you are still on the title and he used up all the equity, your house could be upside down.
Get expert advice. Get it now.
Silver, I think you confused me with someone else. Thanks, anyway, though. 🙂
silvermoon:
I must agree with one_step_at_a_time, the issue with HIV is disclosure, not the disease itself. As an attractive gay man, I have had more than my fair share of sexual encounters over the years. Do you know many times somebody was up front about his HIV status with me? THREE TIMES.
IMHO, being with a known HIV+ person is far safer than playing sexual Russian Roulette with the general population.
Regarding Jamie, I believe he thought I was HIV+ when we met> At that time, I was very, very sick, so much so that I remember looking in the mirror saying to myself that if I don’t stop losing weight, people are going to think I am HIV+.
The night Jamie took me to the hospital, with a severe case of Thrush, the doctor’s real concern was that I might be HIV+, as Thrush is not common in 38 year old men, plus I had experience rapid weight loss, GI problems, and an upper respiratory infection, all in rapid succession.
When I left the hospital, I told Jamie of the doctor’s concern. His only comment was that I should be tested. It was the next day he told me he only wanted to be friends. In our communications over the couple weeks or so, he never once mentioned HIV. In fact, my last email to him was never meant to be that, although it was quite fitting and prophetic. Once I came across the his profile on the dating website, it all came to me, since one of his matching questions was “would you date somebody who confided in you he had a sexually transmitted disease?”
Jamie knew all about Thrush. I had bought a small pie for a late night snack and he became very angry at me. “I told you I don’t like sweets.” Odd, I thought for someone who is thin. But you see, many HIV+ people stay away from sweets because it feeds Thrush. How ironic?
I thought about calling him out on this but decided not. Maybe I should have, so I would have some closure in him knowing that I know.