Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a woman who we’ll call Lorraine. She is 51 years old and lives in Australia. The name of the man she was involved with has been changed.
I became involved with David, 49, after joining up to the dating site in September last year when I was emotionally down after a divorce and being on my own for awhile. I have heard both good and bad stories about online romances and was fully aware of women being ripped off financially. Well that was never going to happen to me, for I am too smart for that. But quite clearly not too smart for being taken emotionally.
Within days of placing my profile complete with photo of myself I had received lots of requests for contact by men, most not suitable at all. Amongst the requests was one from a man whose profile was flawless. A person professionally employed with a good Christian background. Fit and healthy and having a teenage daughter in his care much of the time.
I accepted his contact request and we clicked straight away. Had lots in common, both employed in the medical profession, both had three children, he three grown daughters, me — three grown sons. Both loved walking, cycles, the outdoors, markets, gardening, same type of music. We chatted merrily away, night after night for hours, about anything and everything including things one only tells one’s closest friends.
For three weeks, until one nice pleasant but very quiet weekend afternoon, I went online and he was there. He said it would be nice to meet and have my company for a chat for an hour before he collected his daughter from his ex-wife’s. Sounded safe enough. And it was. I even thought he was nicer in person. When I left he asked if he could give me a kiss, and I accepted the small peck on the cheek. How lovely. What a gentleman, I thought. It left me wanting to see him again. The second time a week later when he invited me to his house he had lovely mood candles burning, a gorgeous meal prepared and the right soft music on. And there was that chemistry between us and he told me that he thought I was “hot.”
Notch on the bedpost
Very romantic and easy to communicate with. I was on another planet. But also I was vulnerable and found myself really liking and trusting David. And as the evening went by one thing led to another! Just perfect. Who could ask for anything more!
But make no mistake, once I had become a notch on his bedpost the conquest was over for him. The game had been played. And he was already well on his way in grooming his next victim online.
I know he is very selective, he picks only good, honest women with high morals, that way there are far less risks for him. And he told me nothing. Zero. He just stopped communicating with me. End of story.
I was left totally and utterly shattered and emotionally scarred by it. I saw him online chatting to others but he refused to acknowledge me.
So I chose to confront him personally. I jumped in my car and I drove the one hours drive to his place. (I knew he was home because he was online chatting to someone else at 10 p.m. but would not return my request for contact.) He was shocked to see me — totally. He could not look me in the face. He fidgeted and behaved much the same as a naughty boy who has been caught out but was too scared to admit it. He tried to maintain composure. He said that he is grieving for his mother who is dying from cancer. And that there isn’t anyone else and that he just wanted to be by himself. Then he stated that I was intelligent, good-looking and will find someone else. And he added, “We’ll both be fine. Everything will be alright.”
Talking with other women
The first time I initially had contact with David last year and after a couple of weeks chatting online he suggested communicating through MSN via internet email as it is more personal and that I didn’t need to go on the dating site to communicate as they are full of strange people wanting contact. He then hid his profile and I thought maybe I was special because he had given me his undivided attention. He then removed me from his “contacts” on the dating site.
But when I checked the online dating site, usually very late at night, there he was online, no doubt conversing to other women. I do recall in about the second week of chatting to him on the net and before I actually met him that David mentioned that he was on some type of suicide watch for a friend and may need to go in a hurry. Well that call came and he said he had to go and help his friend in need. The next evening on the net I remember him referring to it when asked by me, he said that it was a long, long night. “Someone was drunk in their car, and there were lots and lots of tears. But everything would be alright,” he said.
I was not to know then just how significant this was until weeks later when going over things again and again in my head. It all fell into place.
“Lots and lots of tears” obviously meant female. And I have now worked out that this female was likely a person he became involved with as he began chatting to me online. When her usefulness ceased, that is, he achieved his notch on the bedpost, he told her their relationship would not work. Yet another poor deluded soul, led to think there could be more but let down in a cold, callous and calculating manner.
Life lesson
So from all of this I strongly felt that David needed to be taught a real life lesson. Users on these dating sites are real life people with real feelings and emotions. I felt he needed to hurt, and in exactly the same way he was hurting vulnerable women who would open up to him — like myself.
Does not matter if you think you are the sharpest tool in the toolbox. If you are new to these dating sites — beware. You are raw meat. Ready for the taking. Long time players will regularly scour the new additions and quickly request contact before others do.
Read more: Online seduction and the dangers of online dating
Then when I began to play him at his own game I was terrified he would catch on straight away, as I find it near impossible to lie and keep a straight face. But remember that online, on internet dating sites, all that is being conveyed is around 25 percent of the actual communication.
The other person cannot see you, or you them. And I know that body language counts for around 75 percent of what is being conveyed. Could I do this? Could I carry off the lie? Well as it happened — yes, I could. Wasn’t as difficult as I thought. If he could see me he would have known, but he couldn’t.
I became Jo
I placed a new profile on the dating site and became “Jo” in late January 2010, and made up a background similar to my own. I felt myself writing what I knew he would want to hear. I needed him to take the bait. And he did. Almost instantly. It only confirmed to me what I had already discovered over recent months that did not quite add up.
David’s first contact with Jo was the day after his mother, whom he supposedly adored, died. Strange behaviour when one is grieving! Chatting on line for one hour to “Jo,” whom he knew nothing about, yet telling her that he had no one to hug!!!!!!
Then telling Jo that he has been on the site for over two years and hasn’t had any luck, and hasn’t had a date in 14 years! I thought and what about me, or the others, whom he just so readily discarded!!! Liar!
Also in the three weeks of being Jo online, David at no stage asked what line of work Jo was in, or even where Jo lived, which was good in one way, because I did not need to lie, however it did highlight how he was so self-focused.
My aim of playing him at his own game was to keep him interested, wanting more, wanting the real deal. Getting him to ask me to his place would be even better as I knew he would go to some length to get it right. Mood candles, soft music and red wine!
Agreed to meet
It happened just the way I planned on Friday evening, February 12, 2010. Three weeks after chatting to him online and developing a rapport, he was clearly very eager to meet Jo. No less than six times throughout chatting to him on Friday early evening he hinted at Jo meeting him with comments such as, “I had a delivery of wine today — come let’s try one.” “I might ask you over — or let my hormones take over.” “There’s at least seven bottles of red to choose from here — come choose one.” “You deserve a back rub for daring to talk about my mum and how I feel about it — no one else wants to know it happened.”
After stringing him along for awhile, Jo agreed to meet him at his place and he gave a very detailed description of how to get there in exactly the same way he had to me. Jo then left him with the final message of “Looking forward to meeting you. You sound so nice and friendly.” And, “I shall arrive in my nice shiny black convertible, shall I?” And he said, “So off ya go and come on over — much more fun talking than typing.” Of course Jo then did NOT turn up.
At 10:50 that night, David left a message for Jo online: “David wonders what happened to Jo — hope you weren’t snapped up by crocodile, not been fed to a shark — and that you didn’t do this to wind me up — though that would seem very out of character from the chats we had — catch you whenever I s’pose.”
And: “P.S. I would really like to honestly know what happened and why — so please chat and tell me.”
Just perfect, I thought. It would leave him now wondering why and maybe feeling rejected, just like I had.
Advice for Internet dating
Now, my advice to anyone new to any of the Internet dating sites is to first check out how long the other person has been on the site. If more than a few months, beware. Secondly, when you are communicating with someone on these sites, remember you are actually only getting about 25 percent of the communication. You do not see them or their body responses; all you get is a motionless computer screen. Thirdly, it might be wiser and safer to communicate only with other new users, and stay well away from those who have joined many, many months ago or years! Let the alarm bells ring.
When I joined again as Jo several months after the first time, there were again the same large group of men whom had requested contacts with me the first time!!!
In conclusion, David has an obsession with these sites, much the same way as an addict has to gambling or a smoker to smoking. The addiction is either about gaining power over women or is a sex addiction. Yet, in real life David functions at a high level. He does have friends and is quite social, even having a weekly home church group meeting at his house. Yet on the chat line he says he is alone and feels unwanted.
David lives in a fantasy world, in a made up one, when on the Internet. The real sad part of all of this for me is that underneath the entire act David puts on, he seems like a lovely man who is highly confused and has lost his way with reality.
Net addiction
Through personal research I have now found some good sites on the Internet that outline what “net addiction” or “Internet dating addiction” or “cyber-addiction” is. Internet addiction is a growing, serious public health issue. And those that are addicted can be quite callous towards unsuspecting others. America has even considered this cyber-addiction to be included in the DSM V of Mental Health Disorders. It can be seen as the new growing social cancer of our century.
But how David could do this to innocent women, and repetitively, knowing he has three teenage daughters himself, is beyond comprehension. How would he like it if one of his daughters fell foul to someone just like him?
Finally, if my story can just stop this from happening to other females then that is a bonus. If what I did by becoming the player myself hurts him like he has clearly and deliberately hurt many women over a lengthy period of time then I will be very happy indeed. And my job is done.
So regardless of where you live, not just Australia, let the Internet user beware. It could cost you significantly emotionally, which will take you a long time to recover from.
Playing “The Player”
Everyone comes into one’s life for a reason. And I now firmly believe David came into mine because I was the right person to take him on and turn the tables on him. By playing “The Player,” it gave me the chance to regain my self-esteem and confidence and gain some kind of closure. My aim was to show him that one cannot use and emotionally abuse innocent people who initially come online and are often very vulnerable by those who are masters at “the game.”
I think I will stay well away from the Internet dating sites for the time being. I need to heal and become the calm, relaxed person with the happy disposition I was before.
Learn more: Survivor’s guide to healthy people and healthy relationships
Lovefraud originally posted this story on April 2, 2010.
LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I felt bonded, even though this made me nauseated
Learning,
You’re right on….I have to take his letter as absolute face value, move on and accept closure in this.
Right about the fact too that they are NOT ABLE TO CARE ABOUT SOMEONE, COMMIT TO ONE PERSON or UNDERSTAND WHAT REAL HAPPINES IS…AND WHY THEY ARE MISERABLE!
It’s comforting to think that in 10 years his life will be no different …that’s the karmic revenge….he will remain empty, angry, unhappy and alone…..but I like you and the rest of us here will grow and make healthier choices.
Thank you!….(((hugs))))
Silvermoon;
Thanks, I appreciate your hard-line honesty. However, regarding the “lies,” all of what Jamie told me is pretty much true. He is in fact English, with a very charming English accent as well. He lives were he told me he lives, I did check on that and the building in which he lives fits his description to a tee. He also works for an airlines, as he has Facebook friends working for the same airlines and there are pictures of him with them in Asia.
Now, the lies, either by omission or construction. Probably the best way is to compare and contrast my impressions of him as revealed to me vs. that I had from the dating website.
In person – shy, somewhat quiet, bright, engaging, mature, with a good head on his shoulders and an idea what he wanted in life. Also not out for just sex. In fact, he never really talked much of sex or his past relationships.
From the website – immature, sexually obsessed, kinky, untrusting, glib, envious and insecure. He answered so many questions and took so many tests the website had a detailed profile. However, it was also clear he was looking for a long-term loving relationship.
Thus, in person by both appearance and demeanor, Jamie presented himself as a sorted, mid-thirysomething guy. On the website, he presented a photograph and a profile that would give the impression of a mid-twenty something club kid… Which is the truth and which is the lie?
The disconnect between his real appearance and his website photo was so far apart my best friend called it “pathetic.” When I first saw it I did not recognize him. I even made a very haunting comment to myself “you don’t look like that anymore; I look more like that than you do.” I also showed the picture to a new friend. “Want to see a photo of me when I in my late 20s” His only comment was that I am a little thinner now. Thus, I often look in the mirror and I am reminded of Jamie.
Interesting that Lorraine makes a point to beware of those with profiles more than a couple months old. Jamie’s was three years old. I do not know if he still uses it, as I stopped looking at it after a month or so. That was about a year ago.
My assessment is as follows. Jamie is a deeply sad 30-something gay male who is HIV+. Due to his medications, lifestyle or some combination, he his very much showing his age. He is also an example of the worst thing for a gay male to be — the ageing twink. Through his 20s, Jamie got by on his boyish looks. That formula is not working as well any more and his is afraid of facing 40 alone and is desperate for a relationship.
He sees me at the club. I am his nominally “type” — taller, muscular build, nicely dressed. While I am 38, I am blessed with looking much younger than my age and Jamie takes me to be 28 or 29, as doe his friends, who, interestingly, are younger than him. When I told him age he was not only surprised but a bit self-conscious about being younger but looking older than me. He gets an immediate ego boost from my interest in him, especially when I get a look at some of the men his friends are flirting with that night.
I was completely up front about being sick and I told him of my various maladies, including loosing nearly 10 pounds very quickly. At this point, I am assuming that Jamie is thinking/hoping I am HIV positive and waiting for me to raise the subject.
After leaving the hospital, my discussion about my doctor’s concern that I *might* be HIV+ says two things: one, up to that point I was not; two, I am much, much more up front and honest than him. I think that he also looked to the future and felt that he was on a continued slide whereas I was not and perhaps feared this. Coupled with my age, as I learned from the profile he likes younger guys, he lost interest in his “conquest,” maybe because he felt it wasn’t going to be one he could hold on to.
The first half of his “just friends” email was cold, to the point and unapologetic. I was bedridden sick, facing the possibility of being HIV+ and it was the week before Christmas. Ending a relationship is never easy but I cannot believe anyone but a sociopath could be so cold, without a hint of empathy toward someone who had shown him nothing but interest, honesty and kindness, especially given I was potentially facing the same disease affecting him. Perhaps too, his self-loathing/shame of his HIV status was being transferred to me.
The second half of the email was bizarre. He told me of all the things he *would* do for me whilst I was sick if he could, like shop, cook and stop by to see me, but of course he could not because he lived 3000 miles away… Could this be an example of the superficial way in which sociopaths operate? It is easy to make promises when you don’t have to keep them.
Oh, and now relieved of sexual pressure, I could come visit and we would have loads of fun. We could be “great friends.” Funny, the day before when I asked him what he was doing for New Year he was evasive about my visiting him in England.
Clearly, this poor guy was also looking for a real friend; those I met were really just drinking and traveling buddies. In some ways still feel I let him down by not being the kind of friend he seemed desperate for.
For 10 years of my life I was a fairly visible HIV activist/fundraiser and worked hard to dispel the myths of HIV and AIDS. Thus, the final act of manipulation by this clearly manipulative person was the most devastating. I found myself caring for him more, not less, after I figured everything out. At one point I even began contacting some of the best HIV-related doctors in the world I know because I was going to put aside my hurt and ego and do something truly great and use all my considerable resources to assure he would receive the best care in the world. I stopped such thoughts when I learned about sociopaths and began thinking Jamie was a sociopath and focusing on the simple reality of what he did to me. I also figured maybe I should save these resources in the event I met somebody more worthy, or god forbid should need them myself.
To his defense, and even this is a slim defense, while I was dating Jamie those with HIV could be denied entry into the USA and his job depended upon entry into the USA. However, so few were ever denied I do not accept this and to this day, I still have no idea why he did not tell me. He had every opportunity and clear indications that I would be very sympathetic to his situation. In fact, he gave up on the very type of person he needs most.
In the hope that it might save just one life: The first myth of HIV/AIDS is that the test finds virus. It doesn’t, and doesn’t even claim to on its labeling. See http://www.rethinkingaids.com or the “We Are Living Proof” group on Facebook for resources on this.
Therefore, this death cloud hanging over gay men doesn’t need to be there; many can and do live well past that dreaded 40th birthday. Interestingly, 40 seems to be a “deadline” of sorts. I can only imagine the kinds of dating behaviors, deceptions, and live-fast-die-young attitudes that might engender.
The last myth of HIV/AIDS to be debunked will be the one belief most deeply held: that gay men don’t deserve to live or be loved. They do, and can, and they don’t need to hold their lives hostage to any “test.” A couple of excellent gay writers on this are John Lauritsen and Ian Young (gay historian/author of “The Stonewall Experiment”). I believe the film “House of Numbers” is on Netflix; if not, it will be soon, and the DVD will be for sale in June.
I will not make any more comment on this, as I know from almost 20 years of experience how incendiary it is to say that gay men deserve to live, and can do so without drugs, tests, fear and sexual paranoia. Or abusive relationships masquerading as “I’ll take care of you.” Honestly, talking of this sometimes brings out the worst kind of awfulness in people, including death threats, which I don’t wish to attract anymore. Thanks for listening.
Dear Blue eyes,
QUOTE: “He gave up the very type of person he needs most”
THEY ALL DO NEED US in one way or another, some of them see us as a tick sees a dog and feel a need for us as a tick needs a dog, but at the same time a tick will attach and suck blood from the host, when their bellies are full, they jump off and slither away until they need another blood meal from another host.
The pity and compassion you felt for him when you found out his status, shows that YOU are a caring and compassionate man, not seeking just a “sexual” relationship with other people, but a CARING relationship with others either as a friend or as a lover. That is the difference between you and Jamie. He is NEEDY like a tick wanting a fix, knowing he will die without one, but YOU are maybe too prone to offer your blood for “free” to parasites. He will not change, but maybe you might need to examine your own reasons for your pity for such malicious critters. I realize that they aren’t going to change, but I think that makes it even more important for US to recognize our own vulnerablities. I’ve got that TEE SHIRT myself. LOL God bless.
The thing about these guys is they lie even when they don’t have to and no matter what else they do, believeing they are smarter than everyone, they proceed to screw up their own lives!
Ok Ox,
So here is what I am learning about my situation:
He has had at least 4 other wives and may have two others concurrent with me.
He has tried to kill one wife and child by burning the house down with them in it and no one has ever left him without a 2 year PTO.
We tried to serve him 2x in jail and the access was blocked and now he has been moved out of state.
I am going to my Congressman for help. Enough going in circles.
Any other ideas, I’m open.
God I could EAT a cigarette right now!
Dear Silvermoon –
This is a different breed than what I dealt with. Mine lied profusely, cheated,and stole money, which I was awarded a judgement through the court system.
I hope your Congressman CAN help. The system basically SUCKS!
Much strength and prayers to you. Your strength and wisdom in this LF journey has made an impact on me. I hope you are able to serve him and that justice will be served.
OxDrover;
I do agree that too some extant Jamie was “mirroring” me; however, his dating profile clearly indicated he was desiring a long-term loving relationship and despite his kinkiness (rough sex, bareback sex), he was also looking for a monogamous relationship, at least according to his profile.
As I alluded to in my reply to Silvermoon, if he just wanted sex, he could have had sex. Regarding HIV status, few are concerned about revealing their status in purely sexual situation, and as I said, in my life only 3 individuals have told me they where HIV+ prior to sex.
No, Jamie’s game was he wanted something more. He was lonely and probably envious of friends in relationships. There is two other possibility. 1) He mentioned one x-partner who was now with his best friend (another warning sign I ignored). Perhaps Jamie saw me as a way to trump his x-partner. 2) Words from his profile: Manhattan and Mojo. I had both of those. I had to chuckle when I saw the word Mojo too, it is not a word I would associate with Jamie. Attractive, yes. Mojo, no. He is way to quiet and does not possess the physique or presence of such a person.
I picture Jamie’s “dream” is being involved with an attractive, successful younger guy in his mid-late 20s with sexual charisma. Perhaps it is as simple as me being at least 10 years older than his ideal.
Oh, Slivermoon….big hugs for you, gal. My experience was similiar to Learning’s, but without legal remedy.
I wish I had a list of resources that might help. Congressman may help, but politicians are notorious for taking steps that only bolster their careers.
Are you willing to speak to the media (as much as I hate to suggest that)? I only ask this because it’s vital: can you document his activities? If so, do you have that documentation readily available? If you have documentation in hand, contact any media that you can think of – Dateline ID, 20/20, regional news agencies, etc. As pathetic as this sounds, the media just may be the catalyst to get this process moving.
My most positive thoughts and prayers are with you, silvermoon. And, it might not be the best time to quit smoking, right now! You’ll have to excuse me, but your remark about it made me laugh. BLESSINGS!!
Dear Blue eyes,
Well, with the profile presenting a DIFFERENT picture of him, far from how he really looks, he is obviously DECEPTIVE and that right there is a RED FLAG. Anyone who is deceptive, who will present one “face” on a profile and another in person, we can say “WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?” Anytime deception is in the equation with another person, you can bet your bottom dollar that the relationship will not pan out well.
No matter what the deception was. He presented a false front as to his appearance, he did NOT tell you about his HIV status, and there were from reading your posts OTHER signs that he was DECEPTIVE, lyiing by commission and omission.
Liars=trouble. No question about that. I’m glad you got away from him, at the very least this man was a liar.