Editor’s note: Here is Part 2 of yesterday’s article, “Almost everything under the sun happened to me, and I’m fine,” written by a reader who posts as “Jen.”
Okay, so I had a crappy childhood, but I survived it. I came out of it okay. I have had what I now think might have been sociopaths in my life from time to time as friends, lovers, or family. At the time, I had no clue what they were, but I did know they were screwed up. I quickly rid parasites from my life after I figured out they were just out to use people. I was strong, and I was no way going to be surrounded by meanness.
So, 2 years after my divorce, I ran into an ex from 20 years prior. I was down in the dumps when I met him again. I had lost my wonderful job and my big fat paycheck. I had plans and dreams that were about to come true. Everything came crashing down on me, and I moved back to my hometown. (Stupid economy!) I got a small apartment for my kids, my golden retriever, and I. I was getting unemployment, but we were barely scraping by. I decided to suck up my pride and go see if the state would help me out with food stamps. I was humiliated, as I do not like taking anything from anyone.
This is where I ran into him, again. At the food stamp office. I should have known better. We started talking, and he said he was just trying to get back on his feet from his break up with his ex. He told me he had done some pretty amazing stuff in the years (now I think it was all bs), and I told him some of my experiences. I also told him I was writing a book, and he said he was doing the same. I sucked up my shyness and I gave him my number. He looked different, cleaner, and more mature than I remembered him. He was also very good looking. How could I judge him? I was getting food stamps myself!
He called a couple of days later, and said he wanted to hang out. He sounded embarrassed when he told me he was broke. I said it was okay, and we could hang out at my place. We got along great! He said he had quit drinking (he drank a lot when we were younger), and at that point in his life he only had a beer here and there. That was fine with me as I wasn’t much of a drinker. He worked, and he exercised all the time. He told me everything I wanted to hear. Maybe, at that time, he wasn’t lying, but it was short lived.
Into the trap
I fell into his trap. I was sucked in and lost. He would tell me how wonderful I was, and how much he loved me. I was rather curious as to why he never had any money to his name (not even a dollar). He was supposed to be working, and he lived with his mom (just staying there for a few months to get on his feet, again). He told me he had to help his mom out, since she was having a hard time with money. He had a car sitting in her driveway, but it was broken. I wondered why he couldn’t get it fixed. I blew these questions off in my mind. I was trying to be understanding, since life had just kicked me in the butt.
Finally, I said that I loved him back. It was right before he was going out of town with his father for Thanksgiving. When he came back he seemed different. He was colder and not as considerate of me anymore. His family suddenly started talking about his ex nonstop. He never said anything about her, and he looked uncomfortable. I guess he would get into huge fights with them over her, but they didn’t care or respect his wishes to keep her out of his and my lives. It was really weird, and I was uncomfortable.
My boyfriend, whom I was beginning to fall head over heals for, suddenly started drinking a lot. He lost his job, and was completely broke, still living at mom’s. I figured it was the stress from being broke, unemployed, and 41 living at his mom’s house. I felt terrible for this ‘poor’ soul. I wanted to help, but I didn’t have much money, either. I was starting my old company back up that my father had left barely running, as a division of his company, while I lived out of state. It was a moneymaker, but his current employees ran it into the ground. So, I was scraping by, as it was. I had my boyfriend work with me a few times, and I paid him very well. He just seemed to spend his money on beer and give it to his mother. He told me how he was depressed, and needed a full time job. I found him jobs left and right, but now I think he didn’t even call. (I was blind at the time.)
Apartment
Finally, I felt like I should do something to really help this guy. I told myself we all need a little help once in a while in life, and I could help him. I asked my brother to hire him on full time with his company. I fixed his car myself. I also got it insured and registered. My lease on my apartment was up, and I asked him if he wanted to get a place with me. He said yes.
He had me rent this beautiful townhouse with a lovely yard for my dog. Then the day before we were due to move in, he tells me he doesn’t think he is ready for a relationship. I had paid them all their money, and just signed a year’s lease, in my name only. I knew I couldn’t afford the rent on my own. I don’t even think I could speak when he told me that. The next day, he changed his tune, but he only moved in some of his clothes. I complained that he wasn’t really living there after a few weeks of him not really having any of his stuff there. So, he went to his mom’s and grabbed two things to hang on the wall. Gee…
Life was hell. He was mean to me, every day. Up and down and I didn’t know what to do. I couldn’t figure out what happened to the man I fell in love with. He started going to his mom’s every day after work, and he would spend at least two nights a week there. He complained that he didn’t want to pay rent, because ‘he deserved a Harley’ to ride. His drinking was getting out of control, as was his behavior. I was just turning into a puddle. Nothing I said or did made anything better. In fact, it only seemed to get worse. He seemed intelligent before, and now there was no logic or reason with him at all.
Ex-girlfriend
The ex-girlfriend was becoming a never-ending problem, as well. His sister decided to be best friends with her, after she said such cruel things about this woman. I found out his ex was trying to get him back, and his family was pushing him towards it. He really didn’t want her, but I didn’t know this at the time as he rarely spoke of her. They liked her better than me. She partied, did coke, and paid for all their partying. She was a nurse and made a lot of money (so they said). They said she would be rich someday. Also, she is a Navajo Indian, and he is a Sioux. I am white. They are racist. Big problem that I was unaware of.
It was all just drama that I was not used to. I was shocked by the things these people did and said. I had no clue at the time that his mom and sister were narcissists, but I did know his brother and nephew were psychopaths (the scary criminal kind). The things I’ve seen these people do is unbelievable, and it would take me 100 pages just to summarize it.
Needless to say, he moved out after 2 1/2 months, and I got stuck with rent I couldn’t afford. He got drunk and lost his job with my brother after 3 months of working there. I think it was the last straw for me. I was shattered. It was a horrible year!
Depression
I fell into a short and temporary deep depression. I am sure I wasn’t the best of mothers, walking around in a daze. I don’t remember much, and I don’t know why. My teenage son picked up some of the slack for me with my daughter. He could see something was wrong, but he didn’t know what. I remember wanting nothing more than to die. I wanted to kill myself, and it was all I could think of. I told my boyfriend something was wrong, and I was worried because I was having thoughts of suicide. He didn’t care. I asked my mom for help, and told her what I was feeling. I knew at that time that my brain was just reacting to being under too much stress for too long. I knew I needed help. No one cared or was there. I couldn’t afford therapy. The mental abuse and money situation was just weighing on me too much, and I finally broke all the way. It had gone on for too long.
The day I had picked to be the end of me came. I had plenty of life insurance for my kids, and I couldn’t see how I was any benefit to anyone. I felt like a failure in every way.
I was going to go to the mountains by myself, and I would make it look like an accident. I had it all planned out, and I looked forward to it. Then the sweetest little face came bouncing at me, and said, “Mommy, I love you. Where are you going? Can I come?” I woke up in that instant.
I felt so guilty and awful for what I was about to do. How could I leave this innocent sweet child without any parents? She loved me so, and I was being horrible and selfish in my way of thinking. How could I do that to my son as well? It would have crushed their little souls. Besides, I am the girl who has always loved life. My only fear is death. After we die, how will we hold hands, or give our babies a kiss and hugs? I like the physical aspects of love and life, so how could I be willing to leave this?
Growing stronger
I grew angry as my eyes started to open. How was it possible to twist me around so bad inside? He was just one man, and I grew up around people like him. His family reminded me of my father’s family (which I was sheltered from, for the most part). I knew better. I tried to leave him then, but I think I was still weak. This man was 41, drunk, refused to work, and living with his mother! Ewwww! AND yet, he still sucked me in, again! I felt sorry for him. How pathetic?
I did grow much stronger and rather quickly. His lies and mean stuff he pulled weren’t working anymore. He seemed more frustrated, and he got meaner. I would dump him, and he would come back. Or I would dump him, and then feel so horrible inside that I went back to him. I thought I loved him, but I know love is a two way street. It wasn’t love, but some sick twisted need. He created that need in me, but it was up to me to get rid of it.
My resentment grew and grew, until about the last month or so. Then my love started being replaced by disgust. I started to see him for what he was—stupid, boring, pathetic, and a leech. I had no respect for him. A small piece of me felt bad and loved him still, but I knew it was the beginning of the end that I looked forward to.
Breaking free
I knew I had to emotionally break free while I was with him. Otherwise, I would have forgotten the bad (like I like to do) and only remembered the good in him. I would have never been able to be free. I know me, and I know there are only 2 surefire ways to make me turn my feelings off like a lightning bolt. The first is to do or say mean things to my children, and the second is to hit me. He has never done either of these.
Well, he must have sensed my planned escape from him. He suddenly got very nice and sweet again, but I waited. I knew he’d do something horribly cruel to me in no time at all. Besides, I just had to tell myself that he is now a 42-year-old man, who lives with his mother and brother, refuses to work, and never does anything for anyone. Valentine’s Day was coming, and he has never gotten me a gift for anything, ever. He spent all of his money on beer last Saturday, and then he promptly started an insane fight over nothing. He dumped me for Valentine’s Day, just like I knew he would. Of course, he blamed me. Technically, I did the dumping, as I didn’t want to be treated so horrible, but I know his games. It was all his doing.
I feel like it was the best Valentine’s Day gift I could have ever received from him: My freedom and my sanity. I cried a little last night, but not over him. I was sad I had put myself in this situation and wasted my time and energy. I feel strong and I am done in my heart and head with him. I had already felt this way for a while, but must have needed a little more convincing.
Not jaded
I am getting back to the person I used to be, and my heart doesn’t hurt anymore. I am angry and baffled at how this one man wrecked me so badly. I went through so much as a child, and it never affected me like this.
I do know what is wrong with me, though. I have helped people throughout my life, as I have been through the school of hard knocks. Some of them have been con artists or mentally ill, and some really needed it. I need to work on my need to heal the world of its sufferings. It is me that needs more healing, and instead of doing that, I set out to save us all. Ha ha, I know it’s not possible. I am too trusting and too loving, and I think I will work on whom not to trust and love. There are a lot of cruel people in this world, but I don’t think that should stop us from caring about the ones who really need our love and trust.
I will not let this man jade me, just as I didn’t let my childhood experiences jade me. If I do, they win. I will still love, trust, and respect others, but I will be a lot more selective especially with the lower life ones. I can run from the educated ones, but the lower life dummies get my sympathies every time. “It’s not their fault life was so hard for them.” Well, it was hard for me too, but I don’t use people, treat them like objects, lie, and I’m not mean. So, boo hoo!
Hi Skylar,
Yes you got that right–“I think she wants more help with extricating her heart.”
Correspondence in eharmony seemed straightforward, real, and honest. In real life, everythign he said online checked out.
First date, my gut feeling in person was free and clear of any “noise” or anything funny. He did not put on an act, try to be charming or imprss me. He was nervous as hell. Just bought a new car and after lunch offered we take a ride in his car to go for dessert somewhere. I was hesitant, and instantly he sensed it and responded “Do you not want to do that?” with concern, and we walked some and I actually felt deep down it was totally safe, and we did go for dessert, and it was more than nice.
If I mentioned a book I’m reading, he goes buys it and reads it so we have something to discuss, and it doesn’t seem contrived. He actually laughs about the good parts and quotes good quotes. (East of Eden, Steinbeck)
Spur of the moment there was a yoga class in a city 3 hrs away by the teacher I trained with, and I ask if he wants to go, he agrees. I had to drive through a horrific snow storm to meet him on the way, not knowing it was going to be that bad, and then no turning back as it would be just as bad. He was so calm on phone, texting now and then to hang in there, or to call when safe, and guided me toward a highway away from the bad area where there was no snow at all, and I made it through.
We shared a hotel room, with two beds. He never put the tiniest pressure for sex. We did talk and lie in the same bed, then even slept in the same bed. No sex. I felt really safe to share a room though I didn’t know him well. He did yoga with me, though he had never done it before, and it was a hard class.
We are both only children. Both our parents seem similar in personalities only switch dad/mom–my dad was like his mom. So much to relate to with similar family dynamics. Unlke my former husband who was incapable of empathy, this man genuinely is very empathetic, too much so.
Went to see King’s Speech, so much to talk about the movie, like teenagers couldn’t wait to hold hands in the movie. Very silly stuff.
Then, get this…I was the sexually aggressive one!! Me! I am inexperienced and sheltered in a long marriage. Well, I got hot and frisky in the car one date, and told him better get a rain check wen we can be alone. And the first time we were intimate, I felt totally safe to do it. That may be stupid of me. Asked him about birth control and STDs, he said taken care of as he had a visectomy and was clean of any std’s. I believed him. If it were my daughter, I’d say don’t just believe him. We were in the city for the day and I was the one who actually wanted this, so we got a hotel, and then he couldn’t perform. He was so nervous. And so embarrassed.
He never drinks (wine sulfates bother his sinuses and he doesn’t like how alcohol makes him feel), but I had suggested a glass of wine prior to 1st date in case we were nervous, so he offered we get a glass of wine to help him with nervous jitters. I laughed so hard with him with a few glasses of wine, it was crazy. We both said how unusual that we met; but it was easy to talk, to joke, to laugh.
His daughter texted me as she called me his “yoga friend” as he told her about me, and I made her chocolate macaroons. We had an inside joke about her dad eating everythign in sight, and it was fun for me to be included with his kid that way, though I hadn’t had a chance to meet her yet as I did’t go his way more than once.
I spent the night at his place once. I went for the day, then got lazy to drive in the dark and cold and decided to stay overnight unplanned. It was really really nice. His house was quiet. His 2 yr old was there, sleeping in his room. I felt very peaceful and good there. It felt real, genuine and warm in his home. ANd he felt good in his environment. We baked macaroons together and laughed our head off…that’s how his kid found out about it the next day.
So….with these incidents, I’ve seen him as a nice guy. A mellow guy. A decent and honest guy. I saw him interact with his little boy, when he woke up in the morning and called for daddy. How he goes to him…looked nice. He insists on having all the kids at his place a lot. He takes the 2 yr old very frequently. To me that’s a good thing. A responsible and loving thing.
I don’t know. I feel like I don’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I did so much comparison to my soon to be ex husband, and SO MANY things are so different and nice about this man. Even when I used to date my ex he wasn’t that nice.
For Valentine’s he sent a nice bouquet of flowers and chocolates. I was touched. And a really nice card that was meaningful…it had various scenarios of a couple, and inside he wrote how the only thing missing was a couple in a car, bec. due to distance we’d spend a lot of time in the car since it’s cold and no place to walk after we finish dinner, say, and there are memories and talks in the car. . .
Skylar, I really do want to do the grey rock test. I do want to see how much tension this man can bear but not sure how exactly to do this.
Like now, I have schoolwork to do and busy over weekend. He’s been adamant about seeing me a lot. I’ve obliged mostly. This weekend I”ll certainly say no, but he hasn’t even asked knowing I’m swamped.
ALso he’s bought basketball tournament tickets for next week to see with me and my daughter and his oldest son. We were going to go next weekend. He woldn’t do anything weird with them around I’m sure…but wonder how I could do a test then.
You see How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days? LOL silly movie. I can have him go get me a coke during a goog part of game, and then when he gets it say I wanted DIET coke and send him back. LOL (movie)
I am intrigued about the grey rock thing, and do explain more skylar. Essentially, just poker face if he is looking for approval, or a response or acknowledgement when somethign goes wrong or he plays up drama, yes? Just act as if I couldn’t be bothered and don’t care one way or another.
He has seen that I am warm, and caring, and sympathetic and I know that he is drawn to that. ANd why not? I would be and ma too–he’s that way to me too. So if I temporarily turn that off, what will he do.
Please do give me more tips on this if you read this Sky.
I remember the disappointed feeling I got after his sullen mood. The sense that I just didn’t know which one is the real him. The lovely smiling one. THe easygoing one. The happy mellow one? Or this murky grim one that got pushed over the edge over some unknown person. Being too sensitive.
The suicide thing also bothered me. I don’t mean to judge ANYONE who’s been at that dark time of the deep low. It’s not fair to judge a person as I’ve not been in his shoes and can’t understand what they’d think they’d achieve by doing that.
My therapist said she imagined that maybe if he doesn’t want to be dependent in some way, the act might mean an extreme expression of INdependence–cutting off from… I don’t quite relate or understand. ANd it’s just too sad, to be at that low point.
Also….RED flag again. One time he stayed overnight at my house without my daughter knowing. We were in the remote part of house where it’s quiet as separate from house. He told me how much he appreciated that I am warm, phsyically and how he’s been scarred by rejection. I’ve shared similar war wounds from my marriage of loneliness and rejection. THen he got kind of upset and even used the f word which he never does. Said, “It f’ing HURTS to be rejected. . .It f’ing HURTS to be rejected” I recall feeling, WHOA, too much information dude…tell your therapist. BUt he stopped at that and he was cool. It just seemed a bit strong.
Thus after his foul mood and me just going to sleep, I wondered about his feeling rejected. . . Geez…my ex did similar things if I’d turn away from him it would push him over the edge totally. He’d blow up in the car if I looked out the window and was silent. He’d feel abandoned and freak out. Weird!!!
Yeh…as you can see…my heart did get entangled already. So yeh…I”m not quite on the RUN yet, but I do want to keep my eyes and ears open.
LL,
No question my vulnerability is my loneliness at the final ending steps of my divorce. I was reluctant to engage to begin with on a rebound.
My Achilles’ heel is that it felt so GOOD to be enlivened with romance again…after such a long separation and such pain and struggle through ugly divorce conflicts.
The fears of being an old lady in a rocking chair with 12 cats… my ex is 13 yrs older, and this man is 2 yrs older.
And I so agree about the physical part…I’d never sleep with a guy in two months… but being so needy for contact I suppose, I couldn’t resist.
Thank god I have a good therapist to lean on so I am not so needy and dependent to fall for him. I have her support and have already shared this with her. She told me to be very worried about the GUN. ANd if /when I talk with him again to bring it up openly and ask him about it. Where did you get a gun? What happened to the gun?
Thanks LL. I hear you lound and clear. I can’t tell you or myself why I am still sticking around after having that gut feeling in the hotel room. Next morning he actually asked me if I had his MP player. LOL He lent it to me so I could copy his music, and I told him I brought it back. Perhaps thinking he might not see me again, he made sure to ask for it. LOL. But he also lent me his video camera to film my daughter’s game, adn I still have that as collateral. j/k
Dw
It is SO CLEAR TO ME that you UNDERSTAND what he is and what he’s doing.
I understand about being lonely, I really do.
But I’d rather be lonely and fart in my own space than be with another asshole in which it takes several more years to get over.
You’re better off alone and in peace. Who gives a shit what the gun thing was all about?
Trust me on the gun thing (my first post under “nothing says I love you like a glock”) it might APPEAR INNOCENT, but it’s not
DW, this is where you trust your gut. Two months is NOTHING, this guy is waving red flags in the wind that you are CLEARLY seeing.
I believe you came here (correct me if I’m wrong) for validation to your INTUITION.
You got it.
Get out. Be lonely, plant flowers, get a dog…………but DO NOT GO WITH THIS MAN!
YOU”RE WORTH MORE!!
LL
TO BABE AND DW,
Granted, you each have different situations that you’re dealing with right now. I’m not sorry I shared my opinion with you both because you asked.
I need to split now and spend some time with my kids. I’m so triggered right now, I’m ready to have someone shoot my ass to the moon……..
I feel SO BADLY and SO MUCH IN MY HEART with some of these posts……….
I don’t mean to be bossy, but yet again I do….
If there is ONE chance I can help even ONE person avoid another spath or help to save themselves in preventing another MAJOR catastrophe, I would.
That’s the part of me that cares so much.
So ladies, I guess what I’m trying to say is that you’re going to do what you’re doing to do.
But I DO care….and that’s why I am SO PASSIONATE about sharing with you what I see. I can’t claim to be right about it….but I think it’s safe to say that we sometimes see situations clearly when we ourselves cannot.
Just know that I care. I don’t want ANYONE to suffer a spath ever again, particularly if you already have.
NIte 🙂
LL
((((LL)))))
Sweet LL,
You are so raw from your spath because it’s so recent. The grey area is scaring the shit out of you. You want black and white. I SO TOTALLY GET THAT. You can’t even stand the thought of a grey area. You know what? LL, when it comes to your ExPOS and my exP, THERE IS NO GREY AREA. IT’S BLACK AND WHITE. Just because someone else has grey doesn’t mean that the monsters who tried to eat us alive are anything less than that. We KNOW. Their is NO DOUBT.
I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT MY EXP WAS THE POSTER CHILD FOR SOCIOPATHY I know he is a murderer and an arsonist and a pedophile. And yours was the poster child with a license to marry and bury – fuck, in that order. First he marries then he buries the women in his web.
That said, maybe you don’t want to read what I’m writing to DW. It ain’t pretty. I told you, I’m working on me and I have different methods than most people here do. In fact, maybe I should just get DW’s email address and take this offline. yep, that’s probably best.
(((((((((((((( Sky ))))))))))))))))))))
I hope you’re not pissed at me. 🙁
I remember the article I saw the other night about even a few traits is enough to run.
In this case, the red flags were obvious. Who is the grey rock for?
There are just times that it’s best to cut your losses and get the hell out of dodge!!!
IN this case? Too many red flags. If anything, Sky, what my experiences have taught me is to SEE the red flags. I see grey rock working when you’re already deep into the relationshit.
But not in this case. It’s SO incredibly OBVIOUS!! Why would you want someone to “test” a POSSIBLE sociopath?
If the thought even COMES to your mind and you write it out here……..and it’s SO OBVIOUS that this guy is a spath…or at LEAST shows many traits……………
Please tell me what is there needed to “test”?
What do you think the “Ten SIgns You’re Dating a Sociopath” is FOR?
It’s been only two months for her, Sky. not ten or fifteen or twenty five years.
This one is obvious. There is no ‘grey rock” here.
Love you.
LL
LL,
it’s for her heart.
2 months time is when your heart flutters at the thought of him. I remember my 2 months with the exP and the BF.
There is a bonding. from the oxytocin.
Sky,
I understand, but even through the “oxytocin” she came here with her INTUITION still INTACT.
Her intuition is more important than the oxytocin!
THANK GOD!!!
Let’s not encourage the oxytocin, but the intuition instead.
This guy is spath.
There is no “grey rock” here.
Love you!
LL
BTW,
LL,
it was about 2 months when the exP had me “arrested” by the singing telegram cop/man. Within a few weeks, I was in an accident that sealed my fate: a huge and looming lawsuit worth $100,000.00 in 1984 dollars. Grey rock would not have made this conman go away since he was expecting the big payoff. But if I had known, it would have given me clues to understand and dump him.
I would never be pissed at you.((LL))
We are on the same road. I’m only worried about triggering you. I know how vulnerable you are and don’t want to do that.xxooxxoo
LL,
you “test” the sociopath to convince YOURSELF. Even when you know the truth, your heart is …a traitor. It must be managed and convinced. But LL, you don’t need to do that because you had 10 years of memories. I had 25 years and still WANTED a test. I didn’t need it, I wanted it. At 2 months, maybe we need it, too.