By | February 24, 2011 577 Comments

Review of ‘Love Fraud’ on the Psychopathy Awareness blog

Like us, Claudia Moscovici had her run-in with a psychopath, one that almost destroyed her marriage. Since then, like many of us, she has thoroughly researched this destructive personality disorder. She started a blog called “Psychopathy Awareness,” and wrote two books: a novel called The Seducer, and an upcoming nonfiction book called Dangerous Liaisons.

In her review of my book, Love Fraud—How marriage to a sociopath fulfilled my spiritual plan, Claudia writes, “I didn’t think I could learn much more about the subject, but Donna’s book proved me wrong.”

Read the entire review on Psychopathy Awareness.

Love Fraud is available in the Lovefraud Store.

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of

I read the review and created a shortcut to her site. Very interesting with similar subjects/themes there.


I did too!


thanks for referencing that site donna, first i’ve heard of it but from what i’ve gleaned so far it has a lot of great information/articles.


Thanks for posting this link Donna. I went to take a look and immediately saw that she has reviewed ‘Jersey Shore.’ Really appreciated her take on ‘the situation’. I have watched several episodes of this show – in shock and awe at the psychopathy and narcissism of some of the ‘players’.

kim frederick

Yes, Donna. Thank you. I spend a lot of time each day googling S/P/N, trying to learn as much as I can, so this is a gift. Lots of good stuff there. Of course, my loyalty belongs, here, with LF, but it doesn’t hurt to expand our horizons.
Thanks again.


I already knew that blog. It’s very good, too but I find Love Fraud better designed, easier, more clear.


Thank you so much for your encouraging comments! Like so many of you, helped me discover what personality disorders are and heal from the psychopath who preyed upon me and nearly ruined my family. I don’t view my blog as competition to Donna’s lovefraud, but as a collective venture to spread the word about psychopathy and other personality disorders and help as many people as we can. Besides, is not just a blog, but an entire community of women who support one another. I’m glad to be a part of that community now.

kim frederick

Thanks, Claudia. Nice to meet you, and I so agree about a shared venture in getting the word out! Towanda!!!!

super chic

Very interesting site!!!! Thanks!!!!!


Hi Claudia, Donna and Shabby,
Excellent site. the photographs are very good, clearly depict the cold glass eyed look they have and which they hide from us with the mask, however, the coldness still permeates through and we make excuses, until ALAS, the mask is completely off.
Thanks Claudia and Donna for the joint effort in keeping us so well informed on this topic, on people who wreck incalculable havoc and misery in our lives.

Hi shabby,
hope you are doing fine. I have my ups and downs, though ups more than the downs.

lesson learned

I perused the site last night for a bit.

Pretty good!

I don’t think there are ENOUGH sites about this. It isn’t about an exclusiveness in getting the word out. The MORE the merrier!

Claudia, I related a lot to your story. It wasn’t exactly the same by any means but there were words that definitely jumped out at me having been in a similar situation with an affair. You’re VERY brave to put yourself out there publicly to speak out about this. I take great courage from your efforts!



Thanks so much to all of you for your support. I’ve been a passive member of since December 2007, when I left the psychopath, horrified by what I was discovering he did and was. I particularly enjoyed Ox Drover’s comment, several years ago, about psychopaths being like snakes: no matter how much you pet them they still won’t grow fur and become a puppy:). I’m so grateful on so many levels, both personal and professional, for lovefraud.

Ox Drover

Claudia, great site! Thanks for all your work as well!

Welcome Claudia, retroactively!. And to paraphrase Oxy, sorry for the experience that caused you to be here, but happy you found us.

Very keen to spend more time on your site, read the books etc. Your review of Donnas’ book has also encouraged me to finally get a copy.

Learning, healing and educating through these sites is one of the very positive outcomes from our collective experience, and sharing with remarkable survivors is also a continually enriching thing.

I would doubt that there is anyone who has not had a brush with a PSN. Perhaps not devastated by one, but still harmed in some way. This work of educating around sociopathy has no limits, as there are so very many sociopaths in the highest positions of power, everywhere.

Not just in our personal lives, but in the wheels and gears of life itself. I have come to believe that learning to reject the sociopathic seduction that is everywhere is part of the path to true consciousness .

Towanda girl!

PS. Very interested in your other writings as well. Thanks Donna for the article and the link.


Anitasee, thanks for your comment. Being a writer myself, I look for top quality writing that really engages you: and Donna’s book certainly does! Love Fraud is as factual and helpful as it gets but it reads like a good novel that you just can’t put down. As for the websites, there can’t be enough informative websites on psychopathy. There are tens of millions of psychopaths in the world (or more!) and they damage hundreds of millions of lives. It takes all of us working together for the information about personality disorders to become common knowledge.


thanks for your work spreading the word about the Evil-ones. We can’t have enough voices on this subject.

It makes me so happy to read posts like yours because you have awareness of sociopathy outside of personal relationshits.

The sociopathic behavior is MOST common in politics and in marketing. It has become so common and acceptable to try to manipulate the hearts and minds of people that we actually have a name for it: MARKETING!

There is nothing in marketing strategies that sociopaths don’t already do. What does that say about our society? Not much hope, but we have to stay the course and pray that God has a plan to save us. Meanwhile, AWARENESS of ALL facets of sociopathy, narcissism and controlling personalities, is key.

The spath does serve a purpose: a perfect example of how not to be.


sky – why does marketing exist? because we live in a market economy called CAPITALISM – don’t know, but perhaps you need to go to the root of your hypothesis, and not stop at ‘marketing.’


whoops, sky put foot in mouth.
One Joy, not putting down marketing so much, or even capitalism. Truth is, I’ve found myself knee deep in a marketing campaign to sell a product, so I’m reading up on all the tips and tricks for getting people to buy what you’re selling. I already knew most of it, but being in the middle of it – well it triggers me because everything I’m reading reminds me of stuff the spath did!

As far as capitalism or socialism or any other -ism, I think they would all work GREAT if spaths weren’t in there mucking up the works. Any one of those -isms could pump an economy to the point that people could be fed and clothed and kept warm and dry. I think that there would even be enough capital for research and improvements to life. But the spath mess it up no MATTER what you try to do.

So then we spend money on wars: the war on drugs, war on poverty, war on cancer, war on terror, war on blah blah blah.
One war on spaths would conquer all because they are the ROOT cause of misery. And yes, they do cause cancer! They destroy our immune systems with stress!

Marketing is fun actually. It’s just that the insidious depths that marketers have reached into our minds, our beliefs and our identities is sinister. I know that everything I think is not necessarily my own choice, I’m influenced every day. Scary thought.


BTW, One Joy,
how are you feeling? I read how busy you’ve been, me too.
Today the pipes burst and I had no water. wahhh! I don’t do well without running water. I had to go out the door with no shower and eat in restaurants and even brush my teeth there. BF finally got the pipe thawed and fixed this evening. But the hot water isn’t up yet. I was extremely crabby today. I’ve been noticing that I’m turning into my BF and he is turning into ME! He was calming and nurturing while I became a cussing crabby baby. I’ve become slovenly, and he has become much more hygenic. I’ve gained 20 lbs and he lost 20 lbs. (I really HATE THAT) Seems like I’ve picked up all his bad habits like sleeping late, and he began getting up early when he met me.

What the heck is happening?


Skylar, I agree with your analogy to marketing: psychopaths are like those Nigerian scams (in fact, those guys are probably psychopaths and certainly are con men and frauds). Psychopaths provide false information marketed as the real deal (true love, real partnership, mutual respect, lucrative business ventures). But they don’t deliver the goods, just the opposite. They deplete you on all levels. However, I also believe in good marketing for quality services or products. Without some marketing strategies, whatever you do, even if it’s for a much-needed and humanitarian cause such as this one, gets lost since nobody ever finds out about it. You become just one drop in an ocean of information.


Sky – i am a bit better tonight, thanks. The antibiotics make me dizzy, and i have to watch my balance. i am still coughing like a barking seal – but my stomach is settling and coughing doesn’t hurt so much.

you didn’t put your foot in it with me, and i agree with with you assessment of the damage done to our identities through advertising…which may become more sophisticated but could always be used for evil: i went to a ‘history of advertising’ display at a fair several years ago – there were ads for cigarettes from the 1930’s- targeting women – showed a woman smoking, and putting down the pie, with a direct appeal to ‘stay slim’ by smoking. (Claudia, I like you piece about marketing above also – you and sky have presented both sides of the coin – depends on who is holding the money!)

on a different note: Colin Firth has won the oscar for best actor. for playing a stuttering monarch. a good performance, but his 2009 portrayal of a grieving gay man was utterly stunning. hmmm.

and sky – you are consistently talking about how you are not taking care of yourself. what is it that you need to help you make a modest shift in this regard?


I don’t know One Joy,
It is deeply ingrained. I just can’t do it. BF wants me back in shape. He doesn’t like the weight I’ve gained. Even that’s not enough. Usually I perform for others.

$$ doesn’t motivate me. The potential renter, is emailing me and still I don’t clean the cabin.

I miss my cats and want them back living with me. But even that isn’t enough. I’m afraid I’ve gone down a hole and it’s getting worse.

I guess I blog here and ask that question hoping someone has the answer. Hoping someone has been there done that and knows the easy way out.

Hey, maybe that’s it! I need a marketing campaign that will convince me that I need to put me first. It’s not that I’m not easy to program, I’m actually easily susceptible to suggestion. It’s just that no one is programming me correctly. 🙁

Maybe I need a hypnotist.


Sky – forgive me if you have addressed this before and i have missed it – anti-depressants? Anit anxiety meds? i know you have gone into therapy, and i suspect that the anger/ betrayal you are starting to feel at family must make you feel like a very bad kid, and not worthy of love and care. your emotions are talking to you. you have to figure out what they are saying.

can you try finding the right question to ask? what would make me take care of myself, or …..? if you can find the right question, then you can ask and ask and ask, then you have a chance at getting the answer(s).


I have some old SSRI’s, somewhere, they make me sick, but am considering them.

A couple of things have come up that make me think I might now what the problem is.

First thing was that I was taught I wasn’t worthy of any care or attention. Then, around age 12 I decided I was tired of being scared all the time. So I learned not to care what anyone thought about me or what might happen to me if I take risks. I went from introvert to extrovert and from shy to risk-taking, almost overnight. I think I did this by not caring what happens to me. That’s what I thought might be the problem.

Then there is the idea that if anyone sees me taking care of my needs they will sabotage them. That has been my experience for so long. So I fear doing anything that could be sabotaged.

It might be all three things working together, that just makes me apathetic to fixing things in my life. I’ve just lived with selfish people my whole life and it was better for me not to do anything. need to break those thought patterns.

Anyway, I’m not sure, but that’s what I’ve come up with as possible problems.

Thanks for caring. You’re the sweetest.

lesson learned


Apathy?……You’ve talked MUCH about bio fam lately…I wonder if some of this is a the beginning of a deeper mourning and grieving for you…maybe it’s another layer of the onion that is being peeled away now….

“BF wants me back in shape. He doesn’t like the weight I’ve gained. Even that’s not enough. Usually I perform for others. B-I-N-G-O…because it’s not for you, Sky. It’s for others.

HE doesn’t like the weight you’ve gained or YOU don’t like the weight you’ve gained. Personally, Sky, I guess if I was your bf (and I know I’m not) I’d be concerned with any weight gain if only for your health, depending upon how much you weighed prior to gaining it. I see some unhealthy junk here in this relationship…just what I see. Lots of ties still left to bio fam and ex P.

Kinda like a big rock tied around your neck.

Maybe, just MAYBE that rock is a bit too heavy for you to carry by yourself anymore, Sky. It’s time for Sky to love Sky…

I come from a bio full of shit too, Sky. They are ALL out of my life. Spath was the last link to the dysfunction THEY created for me. Now I have to figure it out on my own and deal with the grief and that’s as lonely and as difficult as hell…….

It’s easy to feel unloved when dealing with all of that lack of love and care, especially when you’re overwhelmed in other areas of your life.

How can Sky love Sky……without any shame or guilt in that what you leave behind is JUST for you and no one else.

I’d have to query and ask, what is the burden that you’re feeling most right now, IN YOUR HEART?

I agree with One/joy, Sky. Your emotions are talking to you and to US here too….but it really is up to you what they are saying. Sometimes to hear the answers is something that is the most difficult to do. It usually requires more changes. Something I think we all fear at one time or another…..

Lots coming up for you now, Sky. But it’s a good thing. I wonder if there is not a bit of helplessness and hopelessness given that your bio fam cannot be salvaged? That you can’t fix it or them? Maybe it IS grieving…..

Dunno. I’m not saying I’m right. Just some stuff I’ve observed.

I think big things are coming up around the bend for you Sky.

This may well be your “resurrection” from the old to the new 🙂

Always thinkin good thoughts for you….

One/joy sooooo sorry about your pneumonia. I’ve had it before too and it is NO FUN. I hope you get to feelin 100% soon.


lesson learned

((((((((( sky )))))))))))

I think you nailed it. And in doing so, you may well have pinpointed something for me too. 🙂

Will be thinkin about that.



Big rock around my neck, LL.
That’s what it feels like. Not as big as the one I had before with the ExP. I was drowning with that one. This one is just tripping me up.

I know if I can surmount this one, I will be moving along. need to figure this out AND act on it.

Even as I type this out, I feel like a fake, because right this minute, I just don’t care and don’t want to care. I just want to sleep all the time.

Gaining this weight is really unhealthy. I gain only abdominal fat. That’s the kind of fat that people with stress, gain. Not only that, but the fat actually HURTS. It’s hard to explain but my lower back hurts and the area around my waist actually hurts. My blood sugar is starting to go up and down. I can tell it’s a problem because I get sleepy after eating anything. Starting to take chromium and I think it’s helping balance the blood sugar.

Yeah LL, I know we have similar problems in our thinking/feeling. We’re all in this together.


well here i am, just coughed myself awake again. damn.
Sky sweetie, you don’t know how much i needed that hug!

#1 ‘some old ssri’s.’ uh, no. if you are going to approach anti -d’s you deserve something new, and possible.
#2 off-book advice – sleeping after eating and blood sugar out of whack? how many carbs are you eating sky? (i am the ‘queen’ or carb weight, but if you insist you can be a princess). Depending on what other conditions exist you need protein and complex carbs, and you have to junk the rest.
#1 + #2 + hurting fat – doctor or alt health care professional for a check up missy – this is part of self care.

self care is a long road sky – very much a journey. i am so much better at it than i used to be, even though the damn challenges get harder and harder. i can’t get through a day without having a physical/ allergic reaction to something. it requires my time and energy. it’s tricky, ’cause sometimes the only way i get through emotionally is with blind hope, and other’s blind hope would kill me.

Somewhere in these last 2 years i have learned to advocate for myself, and TAKE power in hard situations – not all, but many. these usually revolve around someone trying to scapegoat me. Given that i have had three work-sites in succession, where i have been exposed to toxins, there has been a lot of potential scapegoating, in addition to the normal ratio of that BS that goes on. I heard a quote yesterday (while watching hours of bad internet tv while laying about coughing) – something like: ‘ if you live with disadvantage, you live on courage.’ and that’s me now.

i am a workaholic.i learned to balance much better, and for many years, but since i moved back here and had to work so hard to stay afloat, i have lost the luxury of ‘balance’. and in these last few weeks, getting sick 2 times, (this time it has literally winded me), i see that i have no choice but to find balance within this crazy busy time too.

(sigh it’s 4 am and it must be racoons out there in the park trying to off one another. i hate the sound of animals beating on one another.)

there is so much relearning to be done.. talk about these three areas you have mentioned sky – examine it the way you do everything, but examine what self care looks like, and work towards it. you have to things going for you – your analytical skills (which have to be used in service to your heart) and YOUR HONESTY, oh fake one.

i know that if you are depressed, it is a big struggle and you need some help with caring to care. i know this not caring to care paradigm well. How is your therapist?

your shift at age 12 – that is pretty dramatic, and sounds a lot like (not saying it is) kids acting out so that people WILL notice and WILL care. I think i was about 13 when i staked out some similar ground. i had been adventurous in my own way always, but it certainly shifted, and became more self destructive – the change was re-active for me too – i wasn’t getting what i needed from the family, so i went off on my own. it’s like i created a new internal culture for myself at that point. and maybe I wasn’t good at any of the adult stuff – but i liked my new mind set as it set me up as my family – and those losers i lived with lost a certain degree of control over me. young ones are wise, just being so young they sometimes just don’t know how things will impact them over the years.

i guess in a way for me, these last 2 years about about setting me up as my family again. i worked so hard for so long – living in intentional communities and working hard to have a sense of community in my life – and i have gone back to re actively cutting people off, in the challenge of the spathisode, and toxin exposures. not surprising.

You do need a list for self care – i know that doing really simple things are helpful. the list is your default actions. you need to care for yourself (verb) to begin to feel that you are worthy. actions before understanding. sometimes we understand why we do something when we stop doing it.

A little anger and rebellion might help – sounds like you may be turning inward that anger you have been feeling.

I hope I have made some sense ”“ so much more to write on this subject ”“ I need to be doing my own excavating on this issue, too. When the conference is over”

xo one joy.

Sympathy for Sociopaths

Don’t you think your blog is a little cruel? I mean discuss in your blog sociopath’s inability to empathize with others; but aren’t you failing to empathize with them. I realize that many of these people have done terrible things; but not all of them have. Also, personality disorders tend to form in childhood and adolescence so the reason these people are like this may have to do with trauma suffered when young. Trauma when the someone is young can physically alter the brain, and some experts think this may cause certain personality disorders such as Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). If the brain is physically altered it is not people with APDs fault that they can not empathize. This doesn’t justify committing bad deeds but it certainly makes it much more understandable. I mean most of us learned not to commit hurtful deeds because when we saw someone we love hurt it upset us, and even if we didn’t know the person well at a very basic human level we had some very slight love for others just because we were human like them; and most of us also feel guilt. These feelings most of the time are what prevent us from committing acts that may get us ahead, but we feel deep down are wrong. If we didn’t have these feelings not because we didn’t want to but because we were incapable it we may also commit many terrible deeds we normally wouldn’t have.
But worst of all can you imagine a life without ever feeling love. As someone who isn’t a sociopath you have felt love. Love is what gives most people’s lives purpose, without it we lose what we were meant to live for. As much as sociopaths hurt others I don’t believe any of the people whom they hurt fates can be worse than their own. They don’t even have the ability to comprehend what they’re missing either.
Because you aren’t a sociopath you can empathize so try to empathize with them. They are people who may not be considered legally insane and they may not be physically sick, but they are suffering. Maybe in order to help both sociopaths and everyone else; instead of shunning them and avoiding them like the plague; we should try to find a way to coexist with them and help them. I realize there is not currently any medication or therapy that has shown to be effective for APD, but maybe if we stopped looking as sociopaths as monsters and instead as people who are suffering in ways they don’t even have the ability to comprehend, and instead tried to help them we could find a solution.


grey rock kiddies!


big flamin grey rocks.


One/Joy thanks for letting me know about this ‘grey rock’ signal! It’s a great idea, since you’re right about your hypothesis.


got my tires rotated today!


now I am going to go pot up those philodendrons.


Grey rock, step.


and i dig my cactus, too!


Eva, speaking of grey rocks who continually push our buttons, here’s my post about them:


Thanks Claudia. It’s a very interesting article i had already read! 🙂 You have an interesting blog indeed.

lesson learned


I really enjoyed that link. I love this site, but really enjoy yours too because a lot of the behaviors that were part of my spath are clearly and concisely laid out.

It’s appreciated.


lesson learned


Also, I’d like to share that when psychopaths push your buttons,they don’t have to say a THING….mine loves to call my phone using various numbers or “restricted ID’s” to ruffle my feathers. Use to work. Now it doesn’t. I just ignore it 🙂


kim frederick

Last night, it was getting late, and I was just getting ready to turn off the TV and go to bed, a 20 year old memory popped into my head and upset me so much, I couldn’t sleep.
I was already in my early 30’s when it happened, so it wasn’t like I was a little kid. Let me preface my memory by saying this: I had already been in therapy for at least 2 years, and had been working through a lot of “adult child” issues. It’s not as if I had forgotton this memory….I knew it had happened but I just never attended to it any more.

Also, both my parents have been dead for years, and I have not wanted to stir up old feelings, because I prefer to let them, (and me) rest in peace. I thought I had worked through a lot of this stuff.

I don’t want anyone to expect a horror story…it isn’t, really that interesting, it’s just baffling and a real WTF moment for me! I’d love some feed-back.

When I was about 32, married to military X narcissist and raising my kids on extreme East Coast, my parents continued to live in my home state of Washington.

I was offered a plane ticket by a gentleman I knew who was flying to Seattle for Christmas. The original plan was his wife would go withhim, but she had just landed a new good job, and couldn’t. The ticket was non-refundable.

I was thrilled and excited. My Dad had come to visit twice in the in the three years that I had lived on EC, but my Mom hadn’t. Couldn’t wait to see them. I called them immeadiatly and said I was coming. Gave them all the flight information, including arrival times. We decided that I would take the airport shuttle bus from airport to my home town. We discussed my arrival time.

I got up at the butt-crack of dawn, husband drove me to airport. I took a 1 hour flight to Atlanta, walked around the airport for an hour or two, then flew to Seattle, a 4 or 5 hour flight, picked up baggage, walked to airport shuttle, travelled an additional hour to home town, was dropped off at closest drop off point to parents house…about a 5 minute drive.

It was a bar, for God’s sake and I was recovering. Oh well, It wouldn’t be a problem, I would only be ther a few minutes anyway.

I waited about half an hour and when my Dad didn’t arrive to pick me up, I called to let them know I had arrived. No answer. I called again. No answer. Again, and again.

I sat there for 4 hours!

When my Dad did get there, I told him I had been worried, where was he?

He answered, “Well, you know your Mom, She wanted to get to the Grocery store and do her shopping, then she wanted to get the grocerys put away!

I knew it was true. That WAS how my Mom would think, and my Dad would go along with it….but WTF? I hadn’t seen my Mom in 7 years! Of course she would not want him to see me first, so he would have to wait to pick me up.

Yep. Always on the back-burner and waiting around for some man, too.

Another memory that came out of nowhere, last week:
I was three years old. My parents went out on Friday or Saturday night, and my brother (15) was left to baby-sit.
(happened ocassionally).

I spilled grape soda on a scatter rug, and my brother ranted and raved. Then he went out the door and up the street about 3 houses and attended our neighbors party. I was 3 and had never been left alone before.

I don’t have a clue how long he was gone, but I remember feeling traumatized. I remember standing at the back door crying for him to come back. The music was blaring at the neighbors house, so ther was no way he could hear me.

Eventually my parents came home. He was busted!

I just wonder if that contributed to my fear of abandonment.
I wonder if the raging before leaving was also a set-up for future abandonments.

Ox Drover

Dear Kimmie,

I am so sorry your parents were such sheets….sitting four hours in a bar waiting while they put the groceries away. SHEESH! Makes you feel important and valued doesn’t it. LOL

I sort of felt like the same thing when I went to my “Best friend’s” house in Texas—-felt pretty much unwelcome the entire time I was there, even though I’d been “invited.” Funny how those memories of things like that come back and we SEE them for what they were. LOL

I had another strange dream last night—hadn’t had anything like it for quite some time, but this is two nights in a row that I’ve had the “theme dreams” as I call them of NOT HAVING CONTROL over what is happening to me. Since I fell for the BAITED HOOK of the egg donor and sent my friend over to her house to pick up the drawing. I have it packed up to send to my husband’s grandson who will appreciate the nice portrait drawing of his grandfather, but not think about the P-son when he sees it like I would. LOL

It is odd and also interesting to me how we work things out in our dreams at night that are bugging us in the daylight. I remember when I was working on my own “care-taking-of-others” issues I had these dreams over and over that had a “Theme” to them of me taking care of something or someone who was helpless (baby animals or old folks) while my own life fell apart around me in the symbolic form of a wagon hooked to mules, horses, oxen or donkeys, which wandered off and over turned while I was looking after the “helpless” and not paying attention to my own Life (the wagon.) Sometimes the egg donor would be in the dream, sometimes my step father would be there to give me advice (like he would have in real life) and even in the dreams his advice was what he WOULD have told me if he were alive today….and it was good advice.

Last night I was taking a helicopter ride in a small helicopter that was meant for a pilot and two passengers….and the pilot who was someone I didn’t know…allowed his wife to also get into the copter which was an over load….the plane was flying but I complained to the pilot and he wasn’t interested in hearing me, so I finally demanded that he set the plane down and let me out. When I got out, of course I was without transportation so I had to figure out how to get back to where I “lived” in the dream. I remember telling the pilot that I was going to report him to the FAA which didn’t seem to worry him any….the rest of the dream was the frustration of trying to get to where I was going in a strange city, by myself, without directions.

While intellectually, I think I have realized I got “had” by the egg donor and “bit” at her bait by responding to her e mail about the portrait instead of maintaining NC for anything but LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, I know there must be more “to it” emotionally or I wouldn’t be having these dreams and “theme” dreams or apparently feel so NOT IN CONTROL subconsciously.

Memories, the emotions that go with them, odd flotsam and jetsam that keep going through our heads at odd times….all stones on which to stub our toes on the road to healing, in life. I think the biggest thing though is to recognize these, deal with them as we come on to them and recognize them for what they are, then move onward.

kim frederick

Oxy, I thought your bull and pack of wolves dreams were interesting. Recurrent dreams that change slightly are important dreams. In these, you were trying to patch up boundrys. In one, it was the “bull” you were trying to keep out, and then It was the wolves. What you might of thought was just bull, turned into a pack of real predators…At least they weren’t disguised as sheep. LOL.

I used to write prose poetry and recite it at open mike events. I wrote something called, “Amanda is fine, but her plants are dying.” It was a humorious look at how our caretaking is a frantic attempt to avoid dealing with ourselves and our problems, and that we can actually love what-ever it is we are care taking to death.
F-I-N-E, in my vocabulary stands for, F’d up, Insecure, neurotic, and egotistical…So in this case, it wasn’t so good that Amanda was fine. In the meantime she transplanted, over-watered, over fere3lized, and over pruned her plants…
of course there was nothing bothering her though. LOL.

Yeah, Floatsum. Now that Spath has been gone for three years, and I am living alone, I think some of these issues are coming up again…I can’t ignore and deny them, because I’m too focused on a spath, or anyone else. for that matter.

Don’t beat yourself too hard with that skillet, either Ox. She didn’t get any real information out of you, and your Hubs GS will be tickled to get the portrait. No skin off of your nose.


Kim Thanks for sharing those memories, so much childhood bullchit can surface when we least expect it. I do the same thing, I look at it differently these days tho, you need to sweep those memories into a dust pan and trash them, we have stopped sweeping them under the rug, your parents are gone, examine the hurt and unload it. dont carry it anymore – it’s a burden – so many f–ing injustice’s – so much hurt – i can finally let it go – most of it anyway – let’s not sort through so much of what cant be undone or repaired – kinda futile – all your doing is lightening the and enjoy your day Kimmers –

super chic

Oxy and Kim, your dreams and memories are so interesting…
and you intrepret them so well, really hit the nail on the head.
I have some memories of father yelling at me and then leaving for hours…
too painful to think about too long, really set me up
to avoid making people angry ~ was always scared they would leave.

hens is right, I need to let it go…


LL, these psychopaths push people’s buttons even when it clearly goes against their own interests. I just ran across an article on the news today about Charlie Sheen’s latest delirious rants against his bosses:

lesson learned


In my opinion (unprofessional) this man psychopathy is so outrageously obvious, I often wonder if it needs a true diagnosis.

Each time he opens his mouth now, his delusions about his “specialness” become more apparent. My spath was rather covert and stealth. nothing like the outward outrageousness that is Charlie Sheen.


Ox Drover

Dear Guys,

Hens, I think you are right we do need to sweep it up and throw it out…and we have swept it under the rug so many times.

My “world famous” analogy is about the cat cheet in the middle of the floor. We see it, we smell it, but we put down something over it, a throw rug, and the cat cheets on that, and we throw another throw rug over that until the pile of cheet and throw rugs is almost to the ceiling. Someone comes in and they sniff the odor de’kat;cheet and say “I think the cat cheet somwhere” and we say “WHAT CAT? I DONT’ HAVE A CAT!”

We not only need to clean up the cat cheet, we need to GET RID OF THE CAT ITSELF. I actually had a cat once, named Chairman Meow that was probably the prettiest cat I ever owned, and the most EVIL. The ONLY place he never cheet though was in the litter box. I finally threw him outside and he would WAIT BY THE BACK DOOR and when the kids would open it to come in, he would scoot through their legs and run behind the piano to CHEET. I got tired of cleaning it up, and I would rub his nose in it, then I would hit him and finally got to the point I would grab him and bounce his arse off the garage wall as I threw him back outside. I finally determined the ONLY way I would break him from running INSIDE THE HOUSE TO SHEET was kill him, and I told my kids that when I came in that evening I intended to Kill Chairman.

Normally there would have been weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth when any animal either croaked or had to be put down—but this time they said “OKAY!” cause I had been making THEM clean up the cat cheet when they would let him in so they were tired of his antics too. Anyway, I think Chairman wanted to deprive me of the JOY of shooting his arse because he had committed suicide by car that day while I was gone and his body was laying on the side of the road when I got home. Never had another cat that evil, but was glad he was gone! I tease about the one we have now being “evil” but she’s just a normal cat and she happens to like men and tolerates women, and thinks she is god, but she knows what a cat box is for for sure! LOL And she stays off the counters now too. Actually, she’s a pretty cool cat!

But back to the cat cheet analogy, until we ADMIT THAT WE HAVE A CAT, and that the cat is not cooperating with our “clean house” efforts, we are not going to be able to have a “clean house” (happy life) and no matter how many throw rugs we put over the cat cheet, or how we try to pretend it is not there, it is STILL GOING TO STINK.

My whole life, My family pretended that we did “not have a cat” and we ignored the ever growing pile of cat cheet and throw rugs building up in the middle of the living room floor. But I am not only admitting we have a cat, but an EVIL cat, and I am shooting the SOB and tearing out the carpet and CLEANING HOUSE of all the dirt, cat cheet, and cat hair and sweeping it out with the rest of the trash! FURTHER MORE, any cats that want to live in MY HOUSE better know what the litter box is for! (ps. guys I love cats but this does make a great analogy so don’t you cat lovers get your nose out of whack! LOL)


i have read some of your posts. At first I couldn’t stand to read and even slowed down reading here. I did not/ do not want to deal with that but now I know I have to but I want the easiest way out.

I quit caring about myself around 13/14 and well it’s been bad every since. Can’t do enough to earn the love and respect that I need. I’ve so completely lost myself. I can’t feel my flame anymore and all I want to do is lay and sleep.

I am going to die of a broken heart. I see it happening, feel it unbearably but I can’t seem to get out of this dark hole.

I am so lonely.

It’s all why I willingly walked right into this horrific mess with the phub.

My father is a p,histrionic, most selfish brat I have ever met. large, mean man.

My mom is abroken victim that has lost her way into selfishness, or something. I know that she has sabotaged everything I ever tried to do that was good or prosperous. I don’t know, but I can tell you that she was the reason I stayed in my fathers life.

I attempted suicide and spent a while in the hospital as a teen. I ran away, but got caught and back into to hell. You never try to leave while they have authority over you… they will kill you before they will let you go. It must be them that is done with you or your nightmare is not over.

However, the phub has discarded me like yesterdays trash and the pain of waking up…. our entire time together, it was ALL a lie!!! I am flooded with emotion that I can’t get myself through but as I do little by little, a step forward and two back… I’ve discovered that I can’t get out of that until I face what got me into it in the first place.

I grew up in a very abusive home
I was malested before the age of 5, a very young age to look evil in the eye, to realize good and evil, probably my age of accountability, because from then on I always was aware of ‘is this right and good or wrong and bad?’ Is it good or evil.

I have no where to turn still some thirty years later. I mean humans. I walk in prayer every second of every day. I can’t breath. IT HURTS SO HORRIBLY BAD!!!! I can’t cry enough, I can’t sleep enough, I can’t scream load enough and I know I’m going to have a stroke or heart failure if anything pushes me.

I pray that he will find the lord and his heart will change and he will come back and make the years of lies come true.

I can’t believe how bad this all hurts

I hear ‘you just need to….’
and it’s never anything that I haven’t tried and tried and tried.

I’ve researched and researched, I’ve relearned everything over and over like each was the first time. Really, I learn it and then I get lost again.

We have been separated for a couple of years now and he still has my heart. He came around and messed with me some, got to poisoning me again and I came here… then I fought myself for two months… business required I contact him so he came by…. FOR SEX!! Of course my brain can believe this but my heart…. was crushed.

I really need someone I can’t do this alone, I think. I know, I should be able to lean on God for everything and I do but I need a companion…friend, what ever, you know, it is not good for man to be alone… ??

I type all of this knowing that some how I don’t have a clue. I think if anyone would know, it’s you, how I was independant minded, self driven and with support would have … How did that wild tiger get broke? Why? It was a good thing! Why kill it?


I think maybe I have so much love to offer and no one wants it.?

Send this to a friend