By | September 7, 2012 132 Comments

Lovefraud Lesson #10: Sociopaths always blame others

When sociopaths have problems in their lives, it’s never their own fault. Donna Andersen explains why this is one of the most important Red Flags of Lovefraud.

To watch the entire Lovefraud Lessons series, go the the Lovefraud Videos page.

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Donna, thank you for another fantastic video.

Blame…….oh, yes. Someone is always to blame and spaths are very, very convincing in their accusations. The exspath blamed his parents for not encouraging him to attend college, etc., and he was able to take apart my desire to nurture with surgical precision.

Although this video series is directed at romantic involvements, non-romantic spaths use the exact same tactic of blame.

FANTASTIC, Donna. Thank you!!!

OMG, soooo right on! Luc blames everyone else for his problems. He was wise enough, however, to not start into this until I was already hooked. He blamed his son’s behavior problems for not having a job, called his ex “crazy and deranged” and claimed she was jealous of him.

Just this past christmas, his older son told his grandmother that Luc couldn’t buy him christmas presents because I ruined his life, took all of his money, and was now keeping the baby away from them. I wanted to scream because, in fact, he doesn’t have any money now because when I was there I was paying for everything.

Instead of getting a job, Luc loves to blame the world and talks about how he is the so unlucky. He used to lie about these amazing opportunities and then claim they fell through because of something someone else did to him.


looks like part of the never ending pity play too. as well as the “the sun shines out of my a-hole but life is so unfair to a great guy like me” was watching “lion king” with my grandson recently and realized that Scar, Mufasas brother, is a sociopath. ugh!


Rgc!!! LOLOL Ugh is RIGHT! 😀


Yup, Scar is definitely a spath: envious, lies, blames and feels oh so sorry for himself… “Noboooooooooooody knows the trouble I’ve seen! Noboooooooooody knows…”

(edited name, mistaken identity)


no no.. scar. mufasa’s scrawny brother. oh i guess ya gotta watch it 50 times with your kids and grand kids to get the names straight. LOL!!


Used to know, ‘s been a few years since I last saw it… edited it though.


yea I got to dad wont give me info for collage I could of been something..or my family made me a druggie..or got fired because the BOSS is a a 12 times with jobs at least.. its ALWAYS someone elses falt..i hit u because u made me..yadadada.. spath dont ya wanna put them all on one island and call it spaths…like survivor….lol…now I would watch that…lol.. im sure us survivors and victims. dont go around acting like that and we seem to do what we need to do… and……delt with a heck of a lot more than these spaths..if anything thoes staements are warning signs…in my book now….


OK, could appreciate advice…. There’s something very nasty happening at work.

I temped a math teacher last schoolyear at the school where I work for 8 years now, but normally only have 2 teaching hours. Pupls were very happy with me… it went around like wildfire that the pupils loved my teaching math and felt they understood it better. I want to clarify I just did my job, and was not competing, nor responded to comparison remarks made by my colleagues (pupils told colleagues and colleagues told me). I just solely responded by saying that my colleagues course was very well done and good material and that I was only doing my best to do its justice.

Anyhow, a little over a week before schoolyear started again I get a phonecall from the teacher who I temped for. He practically nearly bit my head of with indirect accusations: one of his course maps was missing, there still lay teacher preperations of mine in his class. He also complained about the state of his material: that is, his course A4 leafs are protected by plastic holders, and some of these plastic holders had some traces of chalk on them while another plastic holder had traces of dried water droplets on it as if someone had attempted to clean it with a spunge.

That phonecall was extremely passive aggressive. I insisted that I had never even lifted his maps with courses from his desk. I never took them outside of the classroom, let alone home and even if they had been brought home I would have noticed since I had moved two weeks before that. And he viciously replied… “Well those courses couldn’t have gotten feet, coudl they?” Anyway, I did give him NEW plastic holders. It’s quite possible I may have left some chalk traces on those plastic holders while using his course. (well duh! Isn’t that why you use plastic holders?) And I asked him whether the papers themselves were soiled, and at least he admitted they weren’t.

In any case, when I entered his classroom to remove the teacher preparations of mine, I searched for it myself and noticed another map missing and one lying in the closet where I was sure I never put it. Couple of days later I learned he had taken one map home after making the phonecall and the other map I found in the closet was put there by him.

Anyway, so I started to think this guy feels threatened and is trying to make me look bad. He normally would have been operated again, and I and another colleague would have temped again, but he canceled the operation and so is working himself.

Meanwhile though I have received some math hours. At least this year I have a half time at school. Our principal wasn’t my biggest fan a couple of years, because I did not function optimally while with the spath (she doesn’t know anything about this), but last year she did give me the feedback that I was working to standard and doing what was expected of me.

But today and tonight things have become uglier. I found a note in my teacher locker from him asking about a calculator. So I went to him and asked him what it was about. He then claimed that his brand new texas instrument scientific calculator, which normally always had lain with his keyboard of his class computer, was gone. I told him I had never even had seen or noticed the calculator there, and always used my own calculators to prevent any confusion.

This happened in the hallway at the side entrance where we were welcoming parents of new pupils for an information evening. The moment the principal joined the scene he made public indirect insinuations that funny stuff was happening in his classroom: not only was his course map missing but a calculator had gone missing too, and now he’d have to ask school to buy him a new one. Basically I felt he was trying to make me look like a thief.

And then there is the strange stuff about his operation. When he called me that friday a week before school would restart, he sounded as if he was making not just a phonecall to me, but to an audience (pretty sure he made the phonecall from the principal’s office). And he insisted on letting me know that he was being operated again and that he needed his material for the temp teacher. I felt he wanted to let me know that he was being temped, but not by me.

However, when the next Monday I came to school in between my own exams to search the classroom, the principal told me I and another colleague would replace him and that I’d have 9 hours to teach the whole year. She also made it sound as if he’d be absent for a while.

I think he found out that I would be replacing him again, and he didn’t like that. He never let me know that he had canceled the operation. This is important, since I normally was not under contract anymore for temping him and he was supposed to grade the retrial math exams of pupils (exams I had composed, including solutions). Because everyone was under the impression he’d be recovering from the latest shoulder operation, I did the grading and mailed the results for the teacher meeting of evaluation to let them pass or not, the last Friday of August (a week later than his phonecall). We had a pre-schoolyear meeting in the afternoon, and he wasn’t present at this meeting. He appeared though with the reception and that’s when I learned nobody would be temping him. (Nice I hadn’t applicated at other schools for a complimenting halftime, because I’d have a full time, and one can’t applicate over the weekend).

I think he made that phonecall in front of the principal to try and dissuade her from choosing me to replace him. That failed though, so he canceled the operation (the bolt in his shoulder normally should be taken out). It is also quite possible he has seen what type of calculators I possess and I’m actually considering that he’s trying to set me up (he basically described my own newest calculator). And he has also seen and the principal has seen that I’m making MY OWN math course.

And then there is a smoke story. About 5 to 6 years ago there was an upheaval about inappropriate contact about him and female pupils (aged 14-15). The smoke was about personal email contact. At the time of course he responded broken and shocked, and there was an unofficial ‘investigation’ against the unofficial allegations, but I don’t know how deep this investigation went, and he was also cleared from it all. This was under the previous principal.

He is otherwise known by colleagues as a social man, who helps organize the bowling night and such.

I also caught him in one very small incongruity. The Friday before schoolyear when he suddenly appeared I told him (with a witness standing by) that I had checked his classroom and that I had noticed one more map missing and one lying in a closet where I hadn’t put it. He then admited that he had took one home and put the other map in the closet himself. I had then asked him about the still missing map and he told me “That he had remade a solution map.” Tonight though, when he was performing his little theater for the principal he said he was “in the process of remaking” the missing map. So, at least to me more than a week ago he wanted to create a picture that he had already had it back under control and that he had a new finished solution map, while tonight he was making it sound he just barely had the start of it remade. It can’t be two things at the same time, so at least one of them is a lie. Personally, I’m actually considering the option that the whole missing map is actually a lie.

Anyway, I’m seeing red flags jumping all over, and this man wants to sabotage me with insinuations because he feels threatened by me. These are mental notes I’m making for myself.

Now here’s what I intend to do. Tomorrow I plan to make an appointment with the principal for wednesday or friday. To that meeting with her I intend to bring along all three calculators I own: including one that pupils consider an antique (it’s a HP of 1992… still works) and my newest one WITH THE sales ticket as proof that I bought it in December 2011. And I intend to tell her that I feel as if my colleague is trying to insinuate things about me, in front of an audience. That when he tried to insinuate before that I might have misplaced his course I felt was a grey arera, but that it now has gone beyond that and it almost feels as if he’s insinuating that I’m a thief without directly accusing me of it, and so making it impossible for me to defend myself against it. And I should not tolerate being treated in such a way by a colleague. I will of course not mention my suspicions, nor accuse him of anything. I will only talk about how I should not be treated the way I’m being treated by him on what she has witnessed him do right in front of her.

BTW the Monday I went to school to search his classroom for that map, she tried to get me to agree that his courses are exaggeratingly large: 400 pages of math course for a 14 year old. She made the remark that was excessive and asked my opinion about it. I replied that it was full of exercises of which only half of each exercise was actually solved by pupils. I refused to make a remark that would be disloyal to a colleague. She then asked “maybe there’s a lot of empty space to write down the solutions?” I replied factually again with, “No, exercise solutions have to be written down on their own work paper.” I let her make her own opinion without compromizing myself.

What do you think?


ok he is definitely threaten by your accomplishments.. and it definitely looks like he trying to set u up.. bring it to the head honcho need to prove yourself.he is the problem. and let that be herd. sounds like a pervet sneeky cover his crazy butt person.. give him a F. for FAILED. I hope whoever u talk to will understand where u r coming I did..good luck…


Thing is, there is little reason for him to be territorial:
a) he’s a fixed teacher with a contract for life, unless he gets 3 very bad reports against him. He has priority in getting math hours.
b) I have an advanced temp contract (that is: it’s a temp contract but a prolonged one, and I have priority over other non advanced temps for giving IT classes and that subject alone, but no priority on math, and certainly no priority over a fixed teacher)
c) I have a master, he has a professional bachelor… that makes him a prioritized teacher for kids for the first three HS years from 12 to 15, while I’m a teacher for teens from 15 til 18, 2 of those 4 years he’s not even allowed to teach and another he cannot get a fixed contract anyway.

So, I cannot ‘steal’ his job, NOR can he teach most classes that I’m teaching.

The fact that he acts territorial while I’m not literally in his territory and even if I was if I was replacing him while he’d be on sick leave I could never take it from him in any legal way, is a red flag to me. For me solely spathic people would become territorial over a turf that isn’t their territory to lose nor to gain to begin with.

Anyway, the first time I could think of it as a guy being upset with his course having gone lost and me being the obvious character to turn to. But a second time around on a calculator I’ve never even seen lying around as he claims and the act with the principal for audiance tonight definitely fits the ‘when people show you who they are, believe them.’ And I’m ready to expect the worst of this colleague now, including setting up traps. And I’m not gonna wait around for it to happen, nor am I gonna fight him. I have however the perfect right to have a dialogue with the principal when a colleague treats me completely disrespectful. It’s bordering to harrassment for me. If I don’t make a stand for myself now, then that guy will get worse.


ok how many reports has he had?sencond ya gotta step back and look at this if its not u…why would a person act in this manner? go with your this normal behavior? NO…yea well spaths want it all dont they…and spaths want it all whether its theirs or not.. I would deff. record all his spath encounters he gives u crap. or makes you feel threatened in anyway…control control freak….


the map thing is just a flag there.outbursts.. hummmmm.. calculator….think..thinkk.flag flag.. just a thought..what was your first instinct when these events happened..


My instincts told me he

a) wanted to intimidate me
b) wants to make me look bad with the principal

I think he’s looking for a scapegoat as well as trying to prevent me from coming on his territory.

It is possible he fears for his career. The principal isn’t fond of teachers on sick leave. Even when she knows they’re recovering from a surgery she’ll have a work doctor check up on sick people.

Her comment about his excessive course points that to her, no matter if you’re fixed, have seniority, or not, she’ll be critical and might look for ways to replace you. I’ve seen her try to press people into such a situation. I know hardly anybody feels safe about their job or future conditions of their job with her. She’s not dirty of giving people shitty subject tasks or class combinations.

She also tends to use the divide tactic; which is why I did not commit to her question about his course.

So he feels insecure about his job, especially since his accident (he fell of the stairs on the first day of the sky trip and had a doubly broken shoulder). But he also knows she likes to create competition, and since spathic people assume others will operate like them probably thinks I am actually competing with him and trying to gain her favour, so he’s trying to ‘counter’ that.

Except I’m not attemptng to gain any favours at his cost or his career.

He also knows I used to be in a vulnerable and weaker position with her, and probably attempts to get me back there. She stands on punctuality and form aside from content. I’m a content person and somewhat chaotic. He’s all form (hence his neat organized classroom, in maps with plastics and all neatly written out solutions). However, I did find that the organization of the content wasn’t always optimal… I schematize content more thoroughly than him, to make it more visual for pupils. And I try to push pupils into exerimenting and discover methods on their own to then schematize their discoveries. So he first tried to attack me on my ‘weakness’. Difference is: it’s not because I’m not a neat-freak and not the administrative genius, that I’m careless with stuff. She knows this, because I keep my IT class with 14 computers in order and do not tolerate the pupils messing with it. So, he now tries to make it look even worse.

The reason I intend to show her what my calculators are including the receipt of the buy is to make sure that if he ever tries to set me up for owning a calculator just like the one he described today it will backfire. She herself would then have already seen verification of my rightful ownership. It will then take the wind out of his sails, because I would not feel any need to defend myself against allegations anymore.


good luck… hugs…

your instincts are right on.
I doubt he is a “spath” but he is disordered: envious and shameful. I also think he’s trying to create drama.

I think your plan to show the principal your receipts, is good.

The only thing I would add is to continue to be unemotional.

You did great when you refused to criticize him for his math agenda. You refused to become his rival. Spaths are all about rivalry, so that was perfect.



Sky, I don’t consider him a full blown spath either… but I’ve seen enough intentional toxic behaviour to leave the door open of expecting the worst of him. Experiencing big WTF moments thrice in a row, basically left feeling trampled upon and dirty, in a matter of 2 weeks is a bit too much for me.

As for his calculator, if it did dissapear either not or on my watch I’m very sorry for him. But quite frankly, I never let my calculators lie around on a desk, not even if it’s immediately out of sight. They go straight from the schoolbag back into it, homewardbound. Just like I’ll never leave a laptop unattended or safe behind a lock.

Anyway, not until I’ve been able to show the principal a receipt of my newest calculator, will I bring it to school. The antique HP works fine, and I’ll use that instead.

Pfffft, what a way to work.


3 years ago tomorrow st.nightmare killed off her fake character. I was up for 17 hours, listening to the reports roll in or his deteriorating condition. hooked, absolutely hooked. sigh.

but, it was 3 years ago, and i am still standing, in no small part due to the love and care of the people here. and she is still a spath. so, if spaths are about competition, in her world view, i SO win.


Onejoy…..hugs to you and, yes – you are still standing and you WIN!

Darwinsmom, I have a very good friend who has tenure at a place of higher education. The “Dean” of her departemtent behaves the same way. My friend has tenure, which protects her position, but other non-tenured professors are terrified of this “Dean” who literally charmed his way into the position without any real administrative experience, at all. He is thoroughly toxic and really abuses adjuncts and staff that don’t have “security” by way of tenure. He yells at staff and adjuncts, has actual temper tantrums, and makes numerous veiled threats that these people will lose their jobs if they displease him. He’s a frigging TYRANT and should never have been hired as a “Dean.”

I wish that I had something helpful to say, but it may just be a good idea to begin documentation of his behaviors and accusations. Jeeepers, Darwinsmom…..I’m so sorry that you’re having to deal with such an jerk!!!

Brightest blessings


The inability or unwillingness to accept personal responsibility for one’s own words and behaviors, and instead blame other people and uncontrollable outside events for all of one’s problems, is a diagnostic trait of personality disorder in general. Its not just a trait of psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial pd, its common to all the Cluster B personality disorders and the other pd clusters as well (I think, if I’m remembering what I’ve read correctly.) Things that go wrong are always someone else’s fault, and the personality-disordered individual is never to blame; he or she takes the position of the perpetual innocent victim. Its just maddening. This inability to accept personal responsibility for any wrong is one of the reasons that personality disorder is considered unresponsive to treatment. The other reason is that those with pds tend to not be distressed by their own thoughts, feelings or behaviors. They’re just fine with themselves the way they are and see no need or reason to seek treatment because from their point of view, there’s nothing wrong with them. (Its everyone else who needs treatment, in fact.)


I am a first time poster. I have a child with an spath. My son is now 9 and I have a 5 year old with another wonderful man who is now my husband.

My spath basically has had no contact with my older son for 6 years which has been a blessing as he is very destructive and abusive.

My problem is that I am seeing my 9 year old have this trait above. Anything that goes wrong is not his fault whether it’s fighting with his sibling, bad grade on a test, etc. it drives me crazy and scares me as this was a big thing with my ex obviously. It also is the trait that scares me as I feel need to save my son from what may be ingrained in his DNA. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.


@ Darwinsmom,

Based on your examples you give, within your initial post, my instincts say; Do NOT go to meet with principle, unless accompanied by at least one colleague of whom you deeply trust. Principle could be disordered, or maybe I remember you already refering to her as a spath. Or you never know, she could even be an accomplice. Regarding math teacher, my instincts say; trying to mindfuck, manipulate and frame you, for sure! Same thing happened to my sister, last year. Fortunately other teacher shot herself in foot and then just like that, game over, spath was suspended, then aligations came out from other victims, including students about much worse bad behaviors. She was sued, lost her case. No more teaching career for her now. Yay! Ugn. Toxic folks everywhere these days.


Sorry, forgot to mention, Principal was co-mindfucking and manipulating with bad teacher and together, they framed other teachers, gave very bad teacher-performance reports to the district, etc. Never meet with shady Principle, alone.


escapefromaspath, there is an extremely helpful and informative article that was posted most recently, on this very subject that you are requesting advice, for. I would personally try to help, however, others here, as well as the article that I make reference to would indeed be much more helpful to you, given your particular circumstance(s). I will go search it out, and attempt to post the link here, ASAP. Best of wishes to you, and you have absolutely come to the right place for support.


escapefromspath, attached, find the link to the arlticle I made mention of. I had forgotten that it was geared toward teens and young adults, however, you may still find the information quite useful. All the best to you~


Shane, thank you for the article.

Donna, thank you for the book. I will definitely check it out. This site is amazing and truly a blessing.


I think your instincts are right. Sounds like professional jealousy. You are better at the job and more popular with the pupils and from the sounds of things more effective. I have been there and have the scars. Cover your back and behave with dignity at all times.


escapedfromaspath, my pleasure! Glad that you found the site. I am new here, as well. It truly is a blessing….


shane, I don’t totally trust the principal… I don’t like her tactics and she is shockingly blunt. However, I don’t consider her to be a spath. A) she’s not interested in popularity B) she can be brutally blunt… but she’s fair and honest (if she doesn’t like your work, she’ll let you know, if you do well, she’ll admit to that too) and everyone is equal, and when she makes a promise, she keeps it. C) She’s opinianated and it’s rough when she has an ill opinion, and that opinion can be guided by appearance, however she does leave the door open to surprise her. 2 years ago I expected her to go for the kill when she came to inspect a lesson of mine. She had some comments but expressed surprise about the content of the lesson, admitting she hadn’t known you could do such a thing with “word” as I had the pupils do (while she used to teach IT herself at another school before she became a principal at outs). Spaths would NEVER admit to such a thing. D) she does have the best interest of the school at heart, rather than herself.

I don’t particularly like her, but I don’t think she’s a bad person. So no, I don’t think this is her doing at all. Actually this morning she told me she’d split the highest math class I have (two last schoolyears are now in one grade class, 23 pupils) in two groups, and I’ll be getting 2 more math hours. She could have gotten rid of me for good or only give me the min I have a right to: 2 hours. However, I do think she does make note of such things happening and is curious what the outcome will be.

I also went by her office to make an appointment with her, which I’ll have on Friday. And in the way she answered I think she knows what the subject will be, without me having mentioned it so far.

The meeting with her is imo of strategic necessity. First of all, I want my direct superior, and she’s the sole one, to know the facts about the calculators I own. If this colleague of mine is intending to set me up, by claiming that one of mine is his, then he’ll socially hang himself. I am then free to say, can you produce a receipt for your claim, because I have mine. Secondly I want to let her know that if he ever tries to “shame” me with inuendo’s like that again in front of other people, I will stop him right in his tracks right there and then. I will not tolerate a colleague to treat me in such a way. I’ve already decided that at such an occasion I will raise my voice so that any witness can hear it, and I will say, “I want you to stop. I do not like to be treated in this way by a colleague.” If this were to happen, I want her to be able to situate such an event, rather than have to explain myself afterwards.

I do not intend to ask her for help. But I want her to know that I do not like at all what has occurred, I want evidence out that if he’s been given rope he ends up making a fool of himself over it, and I want her to know I have no intention of being treated like an easy target by this man. I was taken by surprise, but next time I won’t anymore. He can stuff it imo from now on.


Darwinsmom, I like blunt, straight to the point, no bs types. I do understand what you have expressed about her personality. That’s great that she is so validating and appreciate of your work, as well. I may have read to much into your initial post, regarding Principle. Fantastic, regarding the 2 extra classes that you will be acquiring! Good on you! I think what you state about how you will be handling any future disrespect from math teacher is excellent. Not that you have asked for my opinion, however, I do think it is a perfect strategy, while keeping your side of the street clean, and keeping your dignity and holding fast to your boundaries. Excellent! Would love to hear about the outcome, if you would be interested in sharing, here. Much success to you, on Friday!!

Darwinsmom and Shane,
I too, like blunt people. I’m blunt too. Though at first I rail against the truth: I don’t like it that much being told what I’m doing wrong, after a bit of thought, I realize that it isn’t personal. It helps me to do better.

But then, I wonder if all blunt people are just being honest or if some of them can be spathy because they lack empathy.

It’s a tough call. Learning about the cluster B personality disorders has really helped me sooooo much. I’m still learning.

I think I’ve just met a new spath of the highest order. very scary when I think about it. He is not obvious at all. It is only because I know about spaths that I can discern him. It’s still hard to believe. He seems so innocent. so naive. yet not.

Wow, just when I think I know it all, a new one comes along, just like the old one.

reminds me of the song: won’t get fooled again.


Darwinsmom, quite frankly, I feel that you have this matter completely in hand. You’re venting in the “right place” instead of running to colleagues and yammering on about what this guy is doing! Good for YOU!!!!

One thing that I’ve noticed about the education profession is that there is always a high level of narcissism – especially, higher education. The friend that I mentioned, previously, had a Dean that was incredibly tough. This gal was bliunt, brutally honest, and demanded performance from her departments. But, she was also ethical and very professional – she did the work necessary to see that all of her departments ran as smoothly as possible, and that her staff and faculty were accountable. Since the new “Dean” was hired to replace her, adjuncts and tenured professors have begun slding into very, very bad habits, along with support staff. It’s chaos and he’s directly responsible for the performances of his department faculty and staff.

You’ve got this, Darwinsmom – you’re just angry at this guy, and you have every RIGHT to feel angry! He’s a whining twerp and I agree that he is jealous – pea-GREEN with jealousy and envy.

Brightest blessings!


Right on Donna!

I remember my ex husuband calling his ex girlfriend “crazy” and bi-polar. I will never be sure, but I am sure she was devastated that he dumped her for me.I had found out that he was still dating her and I told him I was not interested in this trio arrangement. He lived out of town, so I will never know how long he kept dating her, but he probably did behind my back.

Years, later, his brother also apparently a psychopath, broke up with his very intelligent and successful girlfriend and I remember my ex husband calling her “crazy”. I remember telling him – she is NOT crazy. Sadly, I still had not figured out the psychopath traits of both of these men. TWO spath brothers – ugh.

so, now fast forward to the present. My ex husband dumped me and moved into the guest bedroom of his new GF. It JUST occurred to me that he has been calling me “crazy” for the last 20 months of our separation!!!!!

I think he also told everyone that “I” abused him. That’s right, I am the perpetrator of evil in this marriage. At times, I am sure I looked “crazy” when I threw all of his clothes on her front porch.

yeah, at some point, a psychopath can and will drive all of us insane. Finally, I am on the “other” side of the equation in this failed relationship and truly see who is the “crazy'” one.


Skylar, you’re right. It IS a tough call. I too, recently met a new spath of the highest order, we interacted regarding business throughout first day of meeting. By days end, after experiencing many red flags periodically through the day, it was as clear as day that he was/is a spath, so I ended day by saying, “Spath, here are some excellent referrals. I do not believe that we are a good match, and do wish you all the best”. Ugh, they are popping up more often than not. I hope there will not come a day when the spaths out-number good people.

congrats on figuring it out quickly and making your escape.
I wasn’t so quick. I going back and forth between doubting and hoping that he was normal. Now I’m sure.

It’s not a love relationship or even a business thing, just an acquaintance, so I’ll go gray rock now.

Yes, they’re everywhere. I tried to hire YET another guy. He seems normal, I hope he is. Except…he said his ex-wife is crazy…red flag. The thing that first triggered me was that he stood too close and was too excited when I first met him.
It’s hard going through life looking for red flags.

Ox Drover

Shane and Sky,

It IS tough looking for red flags in all new associations, business or personal, but that is LIVING CAUTIOUSLY and making people EARN our trust rather than give it to them until they screw us or stab us in the back and THEN taking that trust away—as we walk away bleeding with a knife in our physical or emotional ‘back”

Even Bob Hare said it takes a while of knowing someone and interacting with them to know if they are a psychopath, BUT a person doesn’t have to be a FULL BLOWN CARD CARRYING PSYCHOPATH for us to know that we don’t want them in our lives. Someone who is “mildly” dishonest, irresponsible, nasty tempered, hard drinking, etc. may actually not “qualify” as a 30 on the PCL-R but they STILL are not someone we would want to take home and keep as a pet. LOL

Being cautious is GOOD SENSE and WISE and we need to keep on looking for the RED FLAGS. While only 1-4% of people would “qualify” as full blown 30+ psychopaths, there are PLENTY OF FOLKS who are “simply dysfunctional” or who will score a 29, or a 28 or even a 22 (which is the average score of all criminals in US prisons) and NONE of those people would be (for research purposes) a “psychopath” legally or clinically, but in my book they are TOXIC and DANGEROUS and there is NO REASON ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH to have anything to do with them.

Keep on looking for those red flags in people around you….it might just save your life, your finances or your sanity! TOWANDA!!!!!


Thanks Thruth! 🙂 Yes, you are right. I know what I’m doing, and I’m quite confident that the conversation of Friday will be good for me.

Yes, I’m keeping a total lid on this at my job. The less anybody else there knows, the less it can spread, the less he learns. Let him think he’s in control at the moment and that he has me cornered at every moment he wants to. Let him think he can jump on me and underestimate me. I know this to be an advantage. He’ll feel safe, and won’t even consider I can stick up for myself and cover my own ground.

Sky, you are absolutely right too that I have to handle this meeting with the principal business like and factual, and without making any drama. It will get me the most respect from her too. Her opinion turned more positive last year, exactly because I did what I was expected to do, without any drama, without any complaints, without any personal story, without self-pity. I was in a tough spot last year financially and jobwise, and I never made a squeak. When she learned of it in a factual way, inadvertently, because she had to sign the part-time papers for the unemployment offices, that’s when she started to offer for looking for a solution. That is why to me this meeting with her is not about asking help, but rather informing her about my perspective on what she witnessed herself and that I will act in an assertive way to prevent it from escalating.


He stood to close and got excited? OH my – that is close ~!

no, you misunderstood.
The guy who stood too close, got excited and called his ex-wife crazy, is not the spath. He has only shown a few red flags.

There is another acquaintance that has me more concerned.


Oh, well I am still confused but that’s ok…sorry for buttin in…


Sky, where are you meeting all these spaths? I will make it a point not to hang out in those places. I have not met a spath in years – that I know of.


Star I was wonderin the same thing, if they stand so close she can tell he is excited it must be a crowded room !


Lol… Hens. Too funny! I adore your sense of humor!

Thanks OXY, for the additional words of wisdom and the validation. I actually am finding these recent spathish experiences useful, and great practice. In addition, they are keeping me in “check”. I sometimes wonder if there weren’t as many spaths coming about, would I forget what I have learned, or possibly begin to neglect using my new found skills when need be? I love this place. Thank you to all! XO, Shane


Star, is it possible that you have perhaps crossed paths with/met spaths who of which you may not have been aware, were in fact spaths? If not, You are most fortunate. You as well, Hens. Maybe it is the city that I live in/work in. THEY HAVE BEEN COMING OUT THE WOODWORK, HERE !! All good, however. I have my spath radar on, at all times…instinctively, that is. I am no longer hyper vigilant, and I have recently been witness to the way they just kick in, when need be. It is fabulous, really! Making progress and loving it! XO


shane, thanks for the thumbs up on my humor, I have no drama at the moment so I just try to spread some smile’s.
I am very good at spotting spaths, that’s why I am hermit in the woods..


HAHAHA I love it! Jeeze, I can relate. I was a hermit in my home for far too long (9 months). Just recently getting back out, and into the swing of life as I once knew it, but with more awareness and self protection, of course. I no longer take sh** from anyone, and have no problem standing up. Boy has that been a surprise and a half, but so stoked for myself and my new-found approach. Anyway, you are welcome for the thumbs up. If I may say, and I do hope this doesn’t sound too funky, When I was very bad off and just reading, here, I would sometimes come to find your posts. They were funny and I got to get laughs in a very emotionally safe place. So “Thank you for being a part of my healing process,of sorts”. You have made a difference”. I love how you “try/DO spread smiles!! XOXO

Ladies and gents,
maybe it’s just that everyone is slightly disfunctional and I’m seeing through them from studying the subject so much.

The guy who stood too close, was standing outside next to my truck. Really, I think he’s normal, just slightly disfunctional; divorced; maybe doesn’t tell the truth all the time… Yes, I investigate people on line, that’s how I know if things aren’t adding up. I always have my radar up. If I hire him, he’ll be on my property IN THE WOODS, with me, alone. gotta keep the radar up.

The other one….
I gotta keep quiet about that one for now… you never know.

Obviously we all know that people have shame issues, and are envious. But I never realized how much that drives certain peoples’ behavior. Some people are so driven by shame and envy that they do bizarre things. That’s what I’m noticing. Did you guys ever know anyone who likes to sneak up and scare you? All the time? And thinks it’s funny?
my spath-brother is that way. it’s a red flag.

All spaths like to see your face and reaction when you are surprised because you got the opposite of what you were expecting.

Being surprised is part of being shamed.

If a spath knows you are expecting him to do something, he won’t do it. That’s a little trick to put up your sleeve.


Sky you need to take off that spathinator suit and have some’s to short to be so serious..if you look hard enough you can find bad in everybody…people’s true character always show’s it face..lighten up..

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