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Lovefraud’s comment about sociopaths for the DSM-5

Editor’s note: The American Psychiatric Association is in the process of updating its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, which is the main reference book used by mental health professionals. Back in February, Lovefraud invited you, our readers, to complete a survey on issues related to the new DSM-5.

We will be preparing a full scientific paper on the results of the survey. In the meantime, following is Lovefraud’s comment to the DSM-5 committee, which includes the basic survey results.

To read the revised definition of antisocial personality disorder in the draft of the DSM-5, click the following link. (The working group has recommended changing the name of the disorder to “Antisocial/Psychopathic Type” personality disorder.) Also, feel free to submit your own comments to the committee. The deadline for comments is April 20, 2010.

Antisocial/Psychopathic Type

COMMENT ON THE PROPOSED DSM-5 DEFINITION OF ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER CONTRIBUTED BY LOVEFRAUD.COM

Lovefraud.com is a website that teaches people how to recognize and recover from people with antisocial personality disorder — we use the term “sociopaths.” Lovefraud was launched in 2005 and now averages 3,000 visits per day. Our writers include a journalist, a psychiatrist and a marriage and family counselor. Readers are also invited to tell us their stories of entanglements with sociopaths. We have collected nearly 1,900 cases related to sociopaths in the community, only a small minority of whom have extensive criminal records. Most of our readers were victimized by “professional” con artists who use “love” to prey on victims and who have evaded prosecution.

Lovefraud readers have all learned about sociopaths the hard way—through being deceived and destroyed by them. Many of our readers believe that knowledge of antisocial personality disorder and the existence of people who are “without conscience” could have helped prevent their victimization. The biggest reason our readers fell into the relationships is ignorance of the personality disorder and its symptoms. Therefore, Lovefraud’s primary goal is public education.

The proposed DSM-5 definition for antisocial personality disorder is, in our view, a vast improvement over the language in DSM-IV. However, we have three concerns with the new definition. They are:

1. Although the traits described in the first paragraph—arrogance, entitlement, manipulation, superficial charm, etc.—are accurate, these traits are frequently not apparent upon meeting a sociopathic individual or early in a relationship. In a community setting, the only way a clinician would find out about the traits is through interviewing the people around the sociopath. Many of our readers tell us that sociopaths successfully con mental health professionals and the legal system.

2. The second paragraph of the definition includes the following sentence: “Their emotional expression is mostly limited to irritability, anger, and hostility; acknowledgement and articulation of other emotions, such as love and anxiety, are rare.” This is incorrect. The vast majority of Lovefraud readers have experienced sociopaths professing their love and devotion, quite convincingly. We’ve seen them cry at the thought of losing us. It is only when the sociopaths have drained us of everything they could and discarded us, that we learned it was all an act.

3. The public is extremely confused about the name and definition of this disorder. The suggested name, “Antisocial/Psychopathic Type,” only muddies the water further. From a communications perspective, it is unsuitable for educating the public about this disorder. And education is the only way of preventing more people from falling victim to these individuals.

Lovefraud conducted an online survey of our readers in order to provide evidence and documentation for our point of view. We received 1,378 responses. Readers were questioned regarding their observations of the abusive individual—78% of them identified the individual as a romantic partner or spouse. Respondents were also asked questions related to the emotional expression issue, and their understanding of the terms used to describe this personality disorder.

We are writing a scientific research paper to describe the complete survey results, which we will send to the DSM-5 committee when it is finished. However, for the purposes of this comment, we include the following highlights.

WERE OUR RESPONDENTS INVOLVED WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO FIT THE SOCIOPATHIC PROFILE?

We know from the many narrative stories we receive that our readers have been involved with highly antisocial individuals who enter relationships with the aim of predation. Respondents were asked to rate how closely the individual they were involved with matched the scale in the new DSM-5 criteria for antisocial personality disorder. Here are the results:

1. Antagonism: Callousness

Very little or mildly like that: 3.7%
Moderately like that: 14.5%
Extremely like that: 81.9%

2. Antagonism: Aggression

Very little or mildly like that: 18.1%
Moderately like that: 24.7%
Extremely like that: 57.3%

3. Antagonism: Manipulativeness

Very little or mildly like that: 2.2%
Moderately like that: 8.7%
Extremely like that: 89.0%

4. Antagonism: Hostility

Very little or mildly like that: 18.4%
Moderately like that: 24.0%
Extremely like that: 57.6%

5. Antagonism: Deceitfulness

Very little or mildly like that: 2.5%
Moderately like that: 11.0%
Extremely like that: 86.5%

6. Antagonism: Narcissism

Very little or mildly like that: 8.4%
Moderately like that: 17.4%
Extremely like that: 74.3%

7. Disinhibition: Irresponsibility

Very little or mildly like that: 15.0%
Moderately like that: 18.0%
Extremely like that: 67.0%

8. Disinhibition: Recklessness

Very little or mildly like that: 21.2%
Moderately like that: 23.5%
Extremely like that: 55.3%

9. Disinhibition: Impulsivity

Very little or mildly like that: 17.2%
Moderately like that: 22.7%
Extremely like that: 60.1%

Respondents were asked when they first noticed each of the above traits in the individual. The choices were: right away, within the first month, within the first six months, within the first year and after one year. For every single trait above, the timeframe selected most often was “after one year.”

Conclusion:  Lovefraud readers were indeed involved with individuals who seem to possess the characteristics of the antisocial/psychopathic type. However, these individuals were almost always able to keep their true natures disguised until the relationship was well-established.

WAS THE ARTICULATION OF EMOTIONS SUCH AS LOVE AND ANXIETY RARE?

Following are survey questions related to the issue of love and anxiety, and the answers.

Did the individual you were involved with verbally express love or caring for you?

Yes: 85.1%
No: 11.9%

If the person verbally expressed love or caring to you, how often?

Daily: 44.1%
Weekly: 14.7%
From time to time: 24.9%
Rarely: 16.3%

After a period of time, was the person’s emotional expression mostly limited to irritability, anger and hostility, and acknowledgement and articulation of other emotions, such as love or anxiety, became rare?

Yes: 72.0%
No: 21.1%

Did the person you were involved with display charm and concern in public, but hostility and anger in private?

Yes: 84.8%
No: 12.8%

Did the person you were involved with express fear or anxiety?

Yes: 47.9%
No: 50.7%

Conclusion: Antisocial individuals do indeed express love, although they are acting. Unfortunately, it is an extremely convincing act. When asked to describe how the person expressed love, comments from the survey  included:

“He used expressions of loving and caring to lure me into a relationship with him and to keep me from leaving the relationship. Therefore, he did express love and/or caring throughout the relationship, although in hindsight I know that these were calculated performances designed to fit my own needs.”

“It was the greatest game for him totally adoring, expressing love in every way imaginable until he had ”˜conquered’ and was sure of me which took some time to get me into the trap completely, but once that happened, he changed and as I became more aware of his lies, his imagination, he then found another.”

“A convincing way of expressing love, such that I was 100% sure she experienced it.”

“He would say, ”˜I only do and say these things because I love you.’ I became confused about what love really means.”

Recent news stories have included con artists like “Clark Rockefeller” who was evaluated by a psychiatrist, found to be antisocial and yet claimed to “love” his family. The judge in this case acknowledged the defendant’s “love for” his daughter, whom he kidnapped. It is our concern that if this statement remains in the DSM, the presence of professed love will be interpreted as “ruling out” this personality type.

Lovefraud recommends that the sentence, “Their emotional expression is mostly limited to irritability, anger, and hostility; acknowledgement and articulation of other emotions, such as love and anxiety, are rare,” be ELIMINATED FROM THE DEFINITION. We are concerned that if it remains, a clinician, hearing a sociopath talk about his/her love for partner or family, or his/her fear and anxieties, will fail to diagnose the personality disorder when, in fact, this diagnosis is appropriate.

In fact, people with this disorder negatively, and often tragically, affect their spouses, romantic partners and other family members. Perhaps this fact should be included in the description of the disorder.

WHAT SHOULD THIS DISORDER BE CALLED?

The public does not understand antisocial personality disorder. This is an extremely dangerous situation. Antisocial individuals are social predators at worst, and parasites at best, who live by exploiting others. We find that once a person becomes entangled with a sociopath, there is virtually no support from institutions such as law enforcement and the courts. Therefore the only way to protect the public from sociopaths in the community is to teach people what this disorder is all about, so that if they start seeing the signs, they can escape before serious damage is done.

The survey asked the following questions:

Before your involvement with this disordered individual, what did you understand the term “sociopath” to mean?

Criminal: 19.2%
Serial killer: 19.4%
Someone who was delusional: 6.4%
Person without empathy or a conscience: 19.7%
I didn’t know what it meant: 35.3%

Before your involvement with this disordered individual, what did you understand the term “psychopath” to mean?

Criminal: 15.0%
Serial killer: 51.2%
Someone who was delusional: 13.4%
Person without empathy or a conscience: 8.9%
I didn’t know what it meant: 11.5%

In your view, what term should be used to describe this disorder?

Antisocial personality disorder: 10.9%
Sociopath: 34.9%
Psychopath: 11.3%
Antisocial/Psychopathic Type personality disorder: 43.0%

Conclusion: If we are going to educate the public about this disorder, we cannot use the term “psychopath.” Probably due to mass media, most people believe that a psychopath is a serial killer. This cultural bias is simply too strong to overcome.

People are confused about the term “antisocial—”people tend to believe it refers to someone who doesn’t want to be around others, like a hermit. This is certainly not the case with the individuals we are discussing—they love being around people, although they view every social interaction as a feeding opportunity.

Although 43% of our survey respondents approved of the term “antisocial/psychopathic type personality disorder,” from a communications perspective, this terminology is a disaster. In order to educate, we need to be able to identify the individual. What do we call this person? An “antisocial slash psychopathic type personality disordered person”? The suggested term obfuscates the definition. We need clarity.

Lovefraud recommends using the second-place term”—sociopath.” The word is already in the lexicon, but it doesn’t have the cultural baggage of “psychopath” and the misunderstanding of “antisocial.” The fact that most people are unsure of what “sociopath” means gives us an opportunity to teach them. “Sociopath” is one word—a word that can be defined. Remember, in 1930, Dr. Partridge made very strong arguments against the use of the term “psychopath.” His arguments remain valid today.

This is perhaps the only disorder in the DSM where the very criteria imply victimization of others. Therefore, the need for victim and public education should be taken into consideration as the disorder is renamed and described. Perhaps professional societies such as the Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy should be consulted to arrive at a consensus name for this disorder. Then, once the disorder is officially renamed, issue a press release and actively discourage the use of other terms. Confusion was created when mainstream psychiatry had valid reasons for changing the name of the disorder from psychopathy to sociopathy, but since there was no real consensus, many continued to use the term “psychopath.” The use of multiple terms has thwarted efforts to educate people about this disorder. These many terms also give the false impression that there is more than one categorical disorder, one that is largely genetic and another that is entirely environmental in origin.

If any member of the DSM-5 committee would like to discuss Lovefraud’s findings, the needs of victims and family members, and our recommendations further, we are available.

Donna Andersen, author of Lovefraud.com
Liane J. Leedom, M.D., contributing author to the Lovefraud Blog
http://www.lovefraud.com/
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/



Comment on this article

175 Comments on "Lovefraud’s comment about sociopaths for the DSM-5"

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WOW, Donna And Liane!!!!!! GREAT information and very valid in my opinion conclusions! Well worded comment and I totally agree with everything you two said.

I know this took a great deal of work on both your parts and I would like to say a LOUD THANK YOU!!!!!!! to you both!!!! I can only hope and pray that this makes some difference in the DSM V. All your points were valid!

I second Oxy, WOW, Donna and Liane!!!! You said it all. I hope the members of DMV-5 will consider what you have said and perhaps view our comments to it.

These people destroy lives even if they don’t kill anyone, knowledge is power. Part of these peoples game IS to fool others, perhaps DSM-5 wil listen to some of your advice so more people can understand the game they play.

Superb. Simply superb.

Parasitic personality disorder

– living off other people: living off the generosity of others without offering anything in return
Encarta World English Dictionary

Lets call it what it or they are!

The opposite being a symbiotic relationship
-A relationship of mutual benefit or dependence.

The importance of this to the INDUSTRY? I believe They are not interested!
There is NO $Money$ in These individuals to be Had , Because they are not treatable! A Truth serium, a be Civil serum. a be nice and respect others serium. Or N/S/P Group Therpy= compare notes on methodology.

We will end up with a definition as obscure as the latin names for anything! IMHO

I wish You All the Best anyway! Someone has to try something! And LF has educated Me!

EASY!!!!!!!!!!! Your financial explanation is right on the money (PUN INTENDED)! What’s the point of caring about something that won’t generate income?

I think we outta call it: Tapeworm Disorder.

Tapeworms can be gotten rid of, AND Ps can’t be. Heck, even vampires can be confined to their coffins or killed with a stake through the heart. Besides, there was ONE vampire who had a good heart (Barnabas Collins—BTW, I have every episode of “Dark Shadows” on tape!) LOL

Maybe we could open up a plant and render them for LARD! That would produce some money. Think of all the pigs it would save! Wow, and be kind to animals too!!!!

Ox- Barnabas was the ultimate vampire! OMG. I used to LOVE that show!

Buttons, this from a friend on the subject of legal reform….
I think family court judges are a good place to start”..since they are not elected here in VA starting with your delegate and congressman is better for real reform probably but education definitely but it would help if laws could change to give ya’ll a break”.

Wish I’d known about the survey…my fault for not stopping in for so long. I guess I am doing better!

Ox
“Dark Shadows” Ooh! I was seven years old and had a huge crush on Barnabas. Even today, I have DS trading cards and comics. Where did you get the vids?

Hugs to all

Great article. Yet, I am left to ponder this: in two years of intenisve study, self -education and research I did come to have a neat formula in my head. In this head of mine, Sociopath is someone who is more of a “contributing member of society”, someone narcissistic perhaps, un-emotional, or anti-emotional, a user, but still able to hold a job, and while being callous is able to maintain a front for a longer time; psychopath in my mind has warped into my “Personal P experience” with someone whose whole life and ever single sphere of it was a deceit and manipulation, lost relationships, frequent changes of job, psychopathic inability to live by social norms. Since I was brought up on the DSM III, DSM IV, and DSM IV TR, the Antisocial Personality is still someone crude, criminal and easily identified as a “anti-society” in every form of the word. My 2cents worth. The “little” big continuum in my mind is almost linear.
Yet, someone called them “post – human”. Hope, this doesn’t mean that the society is evolving to accept them into the “next generation”

Personally, I think the simpler and more succinct the definitions, the better the layman will be able to absorb the information. Generally speaking, the average person picks up an assessment and is confounded, almost immediately, if they aren’t familiar with the types of tests that are conducted and vernacular used to describe the results.

This is not an exaggeration: I have 2 pounds of paper documentation of my son’s Cluster B diagnosis and treatment procedures, and understanding the terminology is virtually impossible for the layman. The psychspeak is too much for judges and juries to comprehend, and this causes those who are NOT in the mental health industry to feel deliberately excluded and ignorant without any hope of ever fully grasping these concepts. The laymen are merely on the outside perimeter of a secret organization whose members, alone, have The Knowledge.

How is it that those who have actually survived their associations with spaths are not instrumental in the definitions of sociopathic tendencies? I really applaud Donna and Liane for the incredible work that they put into the survey and their joint proposal to the DSM-V Committee.

The empathy gene:

Check out this short 2 min. video…..interesting study.
http://vimeo.com/7801546

Thanks, EB. All the more reason to wait as long as possible before having sex (releasing oxytossin and becoming MORE empathetic YEEESH)

I think they should just let LF readers write the definition of “sociopath” for the DSM 5. Anyone who has never experienced one will just not know how to describe them.

P.S. I thought ‘oxytocin’ was the hormone released when reading Oxy’s posts and getting hit by her skillet. It’s a “sanity” hormone that snaps you back into reality, isn’t it? lol

Sanity Hormone = Skillet + you got that right!
LOL!

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Star – think the skillet whack is the ‘oxymoron’ 😉

Excellent article and interesting to see some of our responses on masse together. I am glad to see the responses are being used for formal research – Western nations have such a bias for controls and research methods that anything not sufficiently structured is discarded of being of little value to the body of knowledge.

I agree we should as victims be forming the symptoms ourselves for sociopathy / psychopathy. I am old skool and call him a psychopath as much of my reading has been focussed on those terms through Cleckley’s work and The Unfinished Man. Psychopath as a term for me conveys the chilling seriousness of what this man did as well as the depth of his sickness in one succinct word.

I really hope they get this description ‘right’ this time around and include all the different spheres and aspects of this disorder – the affect differences, the behaviours and habits and the ways of communicating that are totally different to the rest of the population. it seems each ‘diagnostic criteria’ got a little piece of the pie but not all of it – the ASPD criteria concentrates mainly on behavioural signs, whereas Hare’s PCLR focusses lots on affect and lack of depth. I do like the CAPP model but realise this isn’t in the mainstream at this time and we need a validated diagnostic criteria that mainstream psychology and psychiatry uses consistently so we’re all on the same page.

I also want to see some recognition of the inevitable harm these people do to those close to them ie something more specific than PTSD – maybe Post Psychopath Syndrome – something that would highlight and recognise the symptoms and feelings many of us experience in the aftermath of this hellish experience.

Many thanks Donna and Liane for putting our voices all together so eloquently.

LF! June elections here with 6 judge positions open. Many private and public fund raisers and meetings, any advice on how briefly explain “cluster B” and make a difference? Would like to also see if any already are aware?

Should I refer them to a specific book, website, article etc?

The definition of “Sociopath” MUST absolutely be better defined! It has been some time since I last wrote in to Lovefraud, but this one article by Ms. Donna Anderson and Dr. Liane Leedom really must be commended. The definition for the APA should and could be better defined for many, many reasons. Hopefully their excellent presentation (and our collective voices) will make a much needed difference for all concerned.

My on-line searching for clues to what had happened to me after a serious devalue and discard by the sociopath led me to this site (about a year and a half ago.) I read everything I could find to help me understand what had happened (and to somehow get my sanity back!) This site was instrumental in my recovery, the descriptions offered here matched closely what I saw in this deceptive personality disorder. The more these observations became clear to me and the more I saw very common links throughout many other’s experiences, the more I then began to see that much of the psychiatric community (in their diagnostic materials which only cautiously skirt around the disorder) has not kept very careful notes on these dangerous types of encounters with this toxic personality disorder.

I have a theory about this lack of concise information in the professional community and it has to do with the ability of the internet’s ability to vastly propel communication. Had my encounter happened prior to having access to a keyboard and a great website like Lovefraud, I might NOT have EVER found the tools needed to help me in recovery! I would NOT have shared my observations with the thousands that visit here, nor would I have learned how to avoid this kind of encounter in the future. The APA and other interested people devoted to helping others must look to the internet for guidelines to their missives. It is here where collective experiences are brought together, not for reward or status, but for the sole purpose of healing. There is authenticity in what is shared here, much more so than in clinical settings where a subject might easily deceive anyone set out to make observations. I would highly encourage any research organization to carefully review the information the founder(s) of this site are offering. After all, the information gathered here was singularly THE most helpful I had been able to find after my exhaustive searches online, in my church and in the bookstores and libraries I had visited.

All my best to everyone here, you remain beacons to so many, even to one who has since learned to be very careful and not to ever let myself be taken in ever again.

PressEject

Excellent article, and a good use of the responses (one of which was mine!) obtained through the LF survey.

As a Psychology student, I see this as a HUGE step forward, especially since I’m linking the DSM-V to my present work, and hope to see this type of result INCLUDED in it when published.

I just found out about the CAPP – and printed a color copy of the “map” for my Psych Professor and my own “research book.” It has very specific things to look for, in several different areas of life, it appears to be comprehensive. Those snakes can’t possibly keep from being found out with an evaluation such as CAPP.

Terrific work – admirable results – heroic effort and KUDOS to Donna and Liane for offering the survey, and compiling the results.

You can bet that I’ll be the “suspicious-type” of counselor/therapist – considering (refering to Steve’s article this week about interviewing those “orbital” types of relationships) a full scale evaluation of clients’ and the victims of this type of personality disorder – I’ll know it when I see it, and have the statistics to back up my opinions.

Excellent!!

Welcome back presseject! Glad to know you are doing well! Seems like “old home week” with various folks checking in., You too Jewels!! Glad to see you!

I wonder if two classes are required. The “psychopath” displaying all the classic traits and characteristics including violence/criminal activity, and the “sociopath,” the nonviolent psychopath.

After some thought, I now believe I was victimized twice by “sociopaths”, excluding childhood sexual abuse by my older male cousin, who is very much a “psychopath.”

The profile of both sociopaths is remarkably similar, albeit the first “Paul”, was a bit more honest than Jamie. Nevertheless, both were manipulative, callous and did not display any sense of guilt or empathy. Paul, a bisexual, was also seemingly more entitled than Jamie. Other than that, both were charming but quiet and unassuming. Neither exhibited any violence or from what I know had any record of criminal activity.

Of course in both cases I saw many red flags but ignored them all due to their charming and pursuit of me…

Behindblueeyes,

“Of course in both cases I saw many red flags but ignored them all due to their charming and pursuit of me””

Yep…thats what happened to so many of us. NOW, though, we will NEVER IGNORE the RED FLAGS WE SEE. It works . It really works.

One and done. It gets easier and better as we learn how to protect ourselves and no longer be their supply!!!!

The amount of violence in the disordered individual as well as some of the other characteristics is like a “sliding scale” of from BAD to HORRIBLE or a 1-10 scale but they are really all on the same scale just maybe not as high up. The terms “socio- and psycho-path” are not two distinct types of individual. There is still a great deal of disagreement between even professionals about what to call this disorder.

Many people think a “psycho-path” is a serial killer and a “socio-path” just Bernie Maddoff and steals your money etc. But the point is that NONE OF THEM have any empathy, care, concern, repentence or remorse for any of the deeds they do whether they take your life or life-savings. NO CONSCIENCE. They know what society thinks is “right or wrong” but they decide that those rules do not apply to THEM.

“Pathological liars” are psychopaths as well. Maybe the never commit a crime the law says they should go to prison for, but they disrupt lives and hearts and souls. They are “soul killers” and for this we have no laws on the books except people who are not psychopaths have a moral compass that points us in the direction of “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” The motto of the psychopath is “do unto others before they get a chance to do unto you what you intend to do unto them.” They assume that everyone is as evil as they or, or so “stupid” they are “fair game” for psychopaths. Either way, it is okay to do whatever they want to do–for them.

But telll THEM A LIE and watch them scream “UNFAIR!!!!” LOL

This is where it is! That suvey we were invited to complete? I wondered where the results were. Sorry I gave 10 paragraph answers :O\

pb, if you subscribe to LF, the survey would have been emailed to you twice to participate.

justus5 These people destroy lives even if they don’t kill anyone

They commit crimes of humanity. A crime is not a only an act that results in charge, conviction.

Following our house burglary the police recovered much; the criminals convicted.

A crime against fellow humans is an act of taking away our right to humanity and respect.

The second appeals to paedophiles, rapists, sociopaths, psychopaths, abusers, con artists. All under the same umbrella called “control, power”

Donna and Liane:

Brava! I look forward to reading the ultimate article.

I agree with your point about eliminating the sentence regarding their exhibited irritability, etc. The fact that should be emphasized is not only that a sociopath can express love, but their MO in the initial phase is not only exhibiting charm, but in fact they “love bomb” their intended targets. The public has to get the concept that what they see up front and what they get later on are two entirely different sides of the same coin. As everyone on this site can attest, nothing prepares your average man/woman on the street for the onslaught of lovebombing.

I was born 16 weeks too early, causing a brain injury called periventricular leukoencephalopathy, a destruction of the white matter connections in my brain,, including the ones in my frontal lobe.

So, I’m a sociopath, or at least have sociopathic tendencies. I am disgusted with everyone acting like we aren’t human, and we’re bad, horrible people. So I view people like possessions, and I have no empathy, what’s wrong with that? So do autistic people, and they get all kinds of wonderfully positive attention, but we’re left out in the cold.

I don’t like people for themselves, I like them for what they give me, physically or emotionally. If they’re entertaining, or help me out with my problems, I’ll associate with them. If not or they stop, I leave them. Basically, I see people like you “normal” people would see a shiny new Lexus.

And empathy just gets in the way of me…why would I want to experience someone else’s suffering? If their displays of suffering are irritating me, I’ll attempt to help them so they’ll stop irritating me; if that doesn’t work, I walk away.

So I care only about myself…doesn’t everyone, deep down?

My goal is to become an interventional cardiologist. So my reasons are because I want the excitement, drama, power, money, and I enjoy the challenge of diagnosing and treating devastating cardiovascular diseases, at least I’m doing something constructive by helping people.

Wish me luck in my life, that I’ll be happy and successful.

Lovefrauds home page:

Learn to recognize and AVOID Sociopaths. Sociopaths are hazardous to your emotional health, your finances, even your physical safety. Learn to recognize the symptoms of a sociopath, and if you suspect you are dealing with one, get him or her out of your life.

Not sure this site will be of service to you Douglas.

BTW your diagnosis of pvl is defined as follows:

Periventricular leukomalasia (PVL) is a type of brain injury involving an ischemic infarction (inadequate blood circulation) of the white matter of the brain adjacent to the lateral ventricles. Peri means near; ventricular refers to the ventricles or fluid spaces of the brain, leukomalasia is softening of the white matter of the brain. The softening occurs because brain tissue in this area has died. Since PVL results in the loss of vital areas of neural tissue, particularly motor fibers that control muscle movements, cerebral palsy (CP) develops in most cases. It is likely to be of a moderate to severe degree and either spastic diplegia or spastic quadriplegia, with the legs more involved than the upper extremities. Mild to severe mental retardation may occur, but some children with PVL and spastic CP have normal intelligence. Visual impairment is also possible if the injury involves the occipital region. Seizure disorders may occur, but are not always associated with PVL.

There is no connection thus far to this diagnosis being linked to Sociopathy.

Douglas:
I wish you luck for your life…..for happiness. This is something WE ALL deserve if we seek it.

I am unfamiliar with your medical ‘condition’, but I am very familiar with sociopathic tendencies.
YOu seem to be well aware of your own ‘workings’ and emotions…..this tells me you have the capacity to at least view others in this same way.

You have choices….as you state on empathy….it just gets in your way.
THIS IS A CHOICE. You choose to let empathy get in your way.

Yes, we all care about ourselves….but it doesn’t stop there….
I believe if you care about yourself…..you can CHOOSE to care about someone else…or others.

It is my experience with Sociopaths in my life….NO the behaviors are NOT human. The behaviors are not mainstream…..they are covert, manipulative and destructive…..
Yes, human in the sense sociopaths eat, drink and poop….and breath enough air to hurt others….but horridly In humain in their actions….
Sorry this disgusts you…..but live on the other side with an open mind and heart……and THIS is disgusting! Children are destroyed, families are hurt……when the whole damn car lot is destroyed……KIA OR LEXUS!!!
NOT a good position, because it it voluntarily done….it was a CHOICE.

Obviously your thought process has ‘worked’ for you, because you have the capacity to defend it, and until it doesn’t…..you will continue to poseess new ‘lexus;s’, and get YOUR needs met only.

I see a lot of excuses in your post and a lot of enlightening words……of defense.

I see you looking for empathy from others with your very first sentence……the ‘crowd’ gathering sentence.
This is manipulative….and very well written……for manipulation.

Kudos for you for your educational aspirations…..but my impression is, you will not be fulfilled.
Looking for the 4 things you seek in a career…..excitement, drama, power, money and a side effect of treating a disease….with a minimized mention of the patients (at least)
upfront…….will make it an uphill battle in your journey.

I wish you again….happiness and enlightenment…..success is not something we are all entitled to.

I find it interesting you found LF? What was the research that brought you here?

Thanks for posting.
EB

Well, according to this article, there is a link between sociopathy and white matter damage: http://neurologicalcorrelates.com/wordpress/2009/06/29/psychopaths-sociopaths-white-matter-unplugged/

And, there is a disease called “pseudopsychopathy”, which is strongly correlated with damage to the right frontal lobe, especially the orbitofrontal cortex.

I saw a psychologist who sad I had PDD-NOS, but she then went back on that diagnosis as I didn’t really fit it, as I had none of the socialization problems, nor obsessive interests. She now believes I may have shizoid personality disorder.

Douglas,
None of us here are qualified to diagnos you. I suggest you take your concerns back to a psychologist who specializes in Cluster B personality disorders and share your concerns with them…..and stop playing games.
It sounds like you need help.

I came here when researching personality disorders online after a conversation with my psychology professor at college piqued my interest. Interesting site.

Oh, and some of the comments of “you have to become a sociopath to defeat one”, well, if you do that, you’re just as a bad as they are…fight fire with water, not fire.

I have a difficult choice: adapt to society’s demands and participate in an empty, unreal life, or not adapt and live a lonely life isolated from the social community. I see the love and friendship others share and feel dejected knowing I will never take part in it in any real way.

Like anyone else, I have a deep wish to be loved and cared for. My desire remains frequently unfulfilled, however, as it is obviously not easy for another person to get close to someone with such repellent personality characteristics.

Oh well…I’ve made it through 18 years of this so far, what’s another 18 years?

They should have a organization like Autism Speaks for sociopaths…it’s even more common, and just as destructive for both parties. The former will drive people away due to impaired socialization and irritating behavior, the will drive people away due to manipulative behavior as people eventually see through their mask.

I wonder why no-one has thought of this? Why is autism whitewashed and sociopathy vilified. A lot of people have been hurt by autistics, like Prof Trudy Steuernagel being violently murdered by her autistic son. That person needed to be put in a supermax prison so he wouldn’t hurt anyone again, instead he got coddled by being put in some center for developmentally disabled people in Ohio, and the media was just gushing over him and saying how it was an accident. Meanwhile, sociopaths get vilified by the media, even though their socialization is just as impaired, in being fake and devoid of any feeling.

They’ve done neuroimaging studies saying that autistic socialization is due to damage to the left uncinate fasciculus, while sociopathy is due to damage on both sites.

@ErinBrock

I know. After the semester is over, I’ll get in touch with my former psychologist.

I’m just bored right now, as there’s nothing to do other than watch Everyone Loves Raymond.

And I most likely have a “personality change to a general medical condition” as PDs can’t be diagnosed in the presence of a brain lesion.

Amen sista EB…..!!!

Douglas,

Have you considered turning your Sociopathic tendencies to something genuinly positive, and proactive (like starting a self awareness group, with suggestions on how to live healthier)….something that dosent manipulate, exploit or hurt other people so as to “non-vilify” the condition like you are suggesting?

Hey, EB!!!

Great to see ya gal! Been a really rainy and stormy day today but guess what! I turned on the TV because son D called to tell me there was a tornado WARNING about 20 miles away from my house so I was watching Judge Judy with the screen split and the weather down in one corner, we got some hail but no bad storm, and 4-5 inches of rain!

I did watch my potted plants I had out in the front yard before putting them in the garden, get smashed! Yea don’t ya just love potted plants. I bought this really cute thing looks like a GRAY ROCK to decorate my garden too.

Watching Judge Judy and the psychopaths on her show try to talk her down was quite entertaining. I prefer not to interact with them though, but you know how that goes. I actually prefer the potted plants and the gray rock to psychopaths…better conversation.

Have a great day!

Douglas.
“Oh, and some of the comments of “you have to become a sociopath to defeat one, well, if you do that, you’re just as a bad as they are”fight fire with water, not fire. ”
YEP darlen……this is how it goes…..Backfires are needed to control the largest forest fires…..FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.
BUT I can choose to step in and out……I choose to love and show compassion/empathy….
I CHOOSE not to show compassion to the man who almost killed me and did severe damage to OUR children, when in a court environment he attacked again…..using water will not extinguish his flame…..
Been there done that.
I am NOT about to keep touching the fire and wondering why my hand was burned…..

I think you’d be better served by looking into your autistic questions in relation to sociopathic behaviors…
Creating your own research on this topic….this might be far more fulfilling to you.
use your boredom for something constructive…..

If you indeed have a deep need to be loved…….then do something about it rather than complain about your potential psychiatric condition.
You sound as if you’ve already predetermined your misery…..
in life.

I too have a brain injury and I SUCCEED in achieving what I choose in life…..happiness/love/affection….etc….

I think your looking for a scapegoat….

Hey OXY…….
Yeah….rainy here too…..we had a blizzard……and had to bring the potted plants in from the deck.
I was out in the garden this morning….looks like I tracked some mud in with me….so I gotta go clean the carpets…..

I LOVE Judge JUDY!!!!
I watch it everyday after Everyone loves Raymond. 🙂

Good to see ya around OXY MOXY……I’ve been cooking up a pot of MOJO and beans today…..should check it….I think it’s been stirred enough and not burning……and clean my carpets……and pick the lexus up from the shop.
🙂

XXOO
EB

Do you know how to catch a squirrel?

Climb a tree and act like a nut!

🙂
The smiley face brigade begins……

🙂 🙂 🙂

🙂 🙂

🙂

,Douglas, If you google sociopathy you will eventually find a .lwb-site that is totally devoted to sociopaths. They blog, share stories, concerns, tactics and what not. You might find what you’re looking for there, as they can probably identify better than we can here. However, you won’t find much real concern or bonding because, there you will serve only as supply, but since you seem to feel that is okay, maybe you won’t mind it so much.

I do have to commend you on your ability to be up-front with us. That is unusual. Maybe, if you want to badly enough you can turn it around. I hope so. And I do wish you luck in your future plans.

I can only take so much, Everybody Loves Raymond, so can understand your boredom.

I have little sod pots, and lots of herb seeds to get to. Hope it’s not too late in the year.

Sometimes I feel like a nut, and sometimes I don’t.

Dear EB, Speaking of NUTS, you qualify, you should have lots of squirrels digging in your yard for buried nuts! LOL 🙂

Nah I can’t stand day time TV just too much for me. Soaps are nothing but stories about Psychopaths and gosh LF is much more interesting! Great stories about psychopaths here and all true! Those people on the the soaps NEVER LEARN!

Yea, it’s easy to track in dirt when you are working with potted plants, get stuff on the bottom of your shoes, sometimes worse than ordinary dirt too.

Oh, well, you know the drill, so quit taunting the squirrels! There’s too many newbies on here right now to risk things getting out of hand! You and I can feed the squirrels without worrying about a little nip on the finger here or there but others are not so immune. LOL At least my house didn’t get blown away like the 35 houses a mile north of me 2 years ago!

Remember that stinking “homeless horse” I took in and she bit her owner, nearly amputated the woman’s breast! Finally got that horse loaded in the trailer and hauled off—if she’d have been mine she’d have gone to that great dog food factory in the sky!

I’m gonna make a fruit and NUT cake…..got plenty of both!

How is asking questions and commenting not constructive?

And if you’re in court, you should expect your opponent to go on the offensive. I wouldn’t stand by while my opponent attempts to make me out to be a horrible person.

I’d say “her brain is wired differently from ours, so this is the way she deals with people. It’s very useful for being a successful executive or politician, and objectifiying people allows you to make decisions bsed on facts, without getting bogged down with sentimentality. Just remember, don’t do others what you wouldn’t want to be done to you.”

On this very same site, it says: “DO NOT TAKE THEIR BAIT! I have read on several websites (including this one), and books like The Sociopath Next Door, by Dr. Martha Stout, and also Without Conscience, by Dr. Robert Hare, that stress this very point. I found this out the hard way and have learned from experience that this only adds to the problem because the sociopath is often trying to get a reaction out of you. Reacting or retaliating against the sociopath only fuels the fire. Although it might sound cliché, one can only truly and successfully fight evil with goodness, especially in this case.”

You could’ve simply ran away from that man and started over, instead of fighting him in an expensive court battle. Why waste the time paying lawyers when you could just simply separate and then move away to Switzerland or Mexico? If I’m involved with someone who’s harming me, I’d do just that.

If you ignore them, they’ll go away, just appease them, and then run away where you can’t be found. They’ll move on to someone more interesting, who’ll react to them.

Oxy:
I’ll take the nip from my squirrels ANYDAY…..
VS….your breast amputatiing horse…..
Dang….

EB and Ox, I’ll just take a nip. 🙂 🙂 🙂

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