Boundaries? I Don’t Know What Those Are
It’s amazing how even after years and months go by of you making it perfectly clear what kind of contact you want with the sociopath, they don’t reciprocate your boundaries. I think it’s just mind boggling over and over again in my mind that this concept of boundaries is so foreign to them, and they have no means, let alone intentions, of adhering to them.
I mean normal people who find out other people don’t want them to contact them anymore, just…stop. But the sociopath does the exact opposite. They continue to push buttons, push boundaries, push limits. There is a constant alertness on the part of the person that set up the boundaries against the sociopath to continue to re-evaluate the boundaries the sociopath has crossed. In addition, they have to set up the right proximity in the first place to derail the sociopath’s ability to get around the boundaries on the onset.
Like they say, “if at first you don’t succeed, try again.” I find that I am at my best when the sociopath doesn’t exist by maintaining no contact, or minimal contact when a child is involved. This week there were trigger points going off like the Fourth of July.
Going to Court…Again
This week I had a trial hearing that the sociopath perpetuated by not taking a plea because he violated my order of protection. So down to the courthouse I go to face him yet again. I had support with me, and I tried my best to prepare myself, but I found as I was walking into the court room, that I lost it.
I just said with tears coming down my face, taking a couple steps back away from the door, “I don’t want to do this.” After a couple minutes, I was able to regain my composure and walk through those doors.
Court was all it was expected to be. A defense attorney in my face while I’m on the witness stand, badgering me for something I already went through once. Now I had to re-live it again in front of a judge and of course the sociopath.
I could feel his eyes on me even although I chose not to look at him at all. The damn thing was so convoluted. The defense attorney would ask me questions and I would smirk a bit and respond, “Well that’s a complicated question.”
There aren’t really yes’ and no’s with sociopaths. They make everything so chaotic, its hard to unravel what happened first because so many things happened that were INSANE. Unfortunately the judge dismissed the case against the sociopath, as I’m not surprised, for lack of the burden of proof on the State’s Attorney side. But he didn’t do it without calling my ex an asshole in open court.
Maybe he did that for one, because he is an asshole, and maybe also because he saw how he had manipulated the system. It’s amazing how those memories that you tried so hard to put away come back to the forefront of your mind to haunt you.
Sneaking Around the Boundaries
Days after being in court, I was still physically depleted and sick. I felt depressed and lethargic. I reminded myself how important it was for my well-being to maintain no contact with the sociopath. Coincidentally NOT, I received an email from one of my ex’s “new employees” of the business that used to be mine that he took from me…and all it’s assets.
Employee’s Email to Me
“Hello (My Name),
I am Name, I work for your ex.
I attached my daughter’s birthday invitation, she is turning 5 on Saturday. I was hoping your ex could bring your daughter, Vel would love to meet her.”
How About No
This was my limit. Now the sociopath was giving my personal email address to his new employees of which he shouldn’t have, because he should be doing the damn work himself to save money on overhead so he can pay off the debt he owes to me! Instead a new woman, of that I’m not surprised, is now project managing his jobs, and he is paying her what he should be paying towards the hundred thousand dollar debt.
I decided that I had to take my boundaries to a new limit. I said NOPE! This isn’t going to happen. So I decided to change my email AGAIN and give him a new, separate email apart from my personal email where he can inquire and coordinate his supervised visitation.
I am going to decide when I am good and ready to answer and even open that email. Right now I am deciding to go on a week hiatus from hearing from him so I can feel at peace for a second. Then I took the liberty to respond to the employee.
My Response
“Your boss needs to read the divorce decree again. He has supervised visitation, and I don’t find it appropriate for him to attempt to thwart the courts’ ruling on the supervised visitation by using you as a pawn to go around what has already been set in place.
Peace in Chaos – I can feel how drained you are. I am so sorry for the continuing harassment. Please add your Lovefraud family to the list of people who support you. You may not know us, but we are all here for you.
Donna
Peace in Chaos, I echo Donna’s response. This site and reading contributors’ support and experiences go a long way to help to heal and learn.
Boundaries are not something the SP adheres to. In fact, I think the SP gets off knowing s/he makes you squirm–just another form of control. It’s very twisted and sad, and I have walked away from situations feeling dazed and confused–like I asked you not to contact me but you call me at work about “work” questions (that are not really) or say and do things in front of other people that feel like I am being held hostage to standing there and being nice about it all. It’s horrible.
It’s very frustrating all the time but especially when you have made progress through no contact or other ways to distance yourself. S/he crossing boundaries almost feels like a failure, like you should be healthy enough to withstand someone being manipulative and disrespectful right in front of you. It’s a lot to handle.
I have tried to find ways to remind myself of the destruction he has caused so that when I am in those situations, I have no inkling of pity for him or desire for him. It takes time and effort to do this–it is not easy.
Hang in there, Peace in Chaos. You got this.
Peace in Chaos,
Sociopaths live for drama as you know first hand. My husband has 2 children with his sociopath ex that are now 20 and 24, and she still uses them to hurt him and disrupt our lives! Our many lawyers over the past 12 yrs have offered us advice when they have NO CLUE what we’re dealing with. As angry as she has made me over the years, and as difficult it has been, I have learned not to acknowledge her no matter what, at least not directly! I have had to learn how to deal with her indirectly, but still defusing her by using my resources! Good luck and God Bless… hang in there, you have too fight for you!
Winifred
I have been no contact now for over 2 years even while going through an ugly, bitter divorce from him. It’s is my personal shield to protect me for further abuse and harm by him. Giving the abuser a one inch crack in that emotional door is most certainly a mistake for they will take any opening that allows them to hurt you. Remember this too, successfully detaching will not eliminate their behavior,because their dysfunctional traits and characteristics are virtually cast in stone.
And closure is possible. It’s being done through silence. It will never come from the abuser, it must come from within.
My silence , my resilience , my strength in the no contact. All that was my way out of the darkness. And it feels good now that I can be strong enough to not letting him push my buttons. And this feeling is my victory in that entire drama.
I can look back now and say “who was that person I was married to for over 20 years ?” Because he is nothing to me now.
Often NC becomes more complicated with time. It’s been 5 years NC with my 5 grown children who finally adopted the psychodic traits of their abusive father whom I divorced in ’82 after 23 years of hopeless marriage. They have now formed a family cult of supporting each other. At 78 and being alone and disabled and financially drained, it appears they may ultimately have won…why and how? Having recently fallen, the hospital would not release me to my home which had no support mechanism. So I was placed in a rehab center where I witnessed unbelievable horrors and elder abuse. Due to that, I’ve had to contemplate “Independent Living” which costs $4,000.00 per month minimum. I have just so many resources left that ultimately, I will likely run out of funds and will be thrown back in to a State-run nursing facility. All because I loved too long and too much to “pull the plug” in time to develop and new profession and funds of my own. This warns all you women out there to get on with your own lives before it becomes too late. No one else will look out for you if you don’t.
This is interesting as my experience has always been that a woman need NO proof of anything a man does. All a woman needs to do is present an email, call the police and bam, the guy is slapped with a restraining order or OP.
On the other hand, having lived with a sociopath for 12 years, I know what you’re talking about. They are in control, because they are always plotting, it’s simply how their mind works. Any attempt to cooperate like a normal person would simply gives them permission to manipulate.
Unfortunately, it’s worse when the sociopath is a woman. Female sociopaths don’t go beating men with frying pans and I personally think there are as many female as their are men. Sorry ladies, but my experience is that women are more likely to fight using manipulation than fists. Traditionally being the physically weaker sex, women have for the most part had to rely on either help from another man or manipulation. There is a reason the old timers say, never mess with another mans woman. It’s because they knew a percentage of those women were not in need of a hero, but simply wanted an easy out of their life. A life they signed up for, that would actually be accountability and having to get out themselves, without help puts them to the test.
Anyway, female sociopaths do the very same things to men. When they have the kids, men are completely screwed. We can either have no contact and not see our kids, or continue to allow contact to see our kids, which continues to allow them some control and manipulation in our lives. This happens to me on a weekly basis. As a man, there is nobody I can go to, no marriage counselor, no lawyer, no judge, no therapist. It all costs us money and they provide little bang for the buck.
Narcissists are shrewd psychopaths, being ahead of them is very hard. My son, just the other day said, “why didn’t you record her”. I told him, that’s easy to say now, but neither of us knew she was going to say what she did.
Just yesterday, she called me an hour after my son was out of school asking ME where he was. I said, “he lives with you, why are you asking me where he is and why don’t you know?”. She then ranted and raved and made him out to be the worst kid on the planet, which is simply not true. She then said she’d have to go out looking for him and actually inferred that she wanted me to look for him. I just said, “let me know if you find him”. Any amount of care I show, is used against me. Not five minutes later, he was home and had been at art club after school.
Now the kicker is, this woman just spent the last week giving me the silent treatment because I would not pay MORE money than I was ordered to for his Hockey. I already paid above my budget and more than ordered by court. It doesn’t matter if it’s for my son, it’s a matter of having a budge and not letter her order me around. She of course was using fear of my son NOT playing hockey so she would not have to pay her end.
It’s funny how if we went to court, I’m quite sure the judge would just make me out to be cheap. They often miss the point because they don’t believe women are sociopaths or perhaps believe them to be rightfully so. Especially since most judges are in fact, narcissists.
I think you have a most valid point. I commend you sticking to your guns about keeping a budget and not letting her try to order you around. I am sorry you came across a female sociopath, they are just as bad if not worse as you say. It’s true that they work a little differently, and I am glad you exposed some of their traits in your post.
Just take him/her for a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fmri test if you suspect
There should be some way we can not have to be in the same courtroom with them, as it genuinely makes the spath thrilled to once again plant another seed of terror, or belittle us through the lawyer etc…
At the very least, the ones who were also found guilty in a court of law for assault and battery, separate from civil protective order, we should never have to forced to see them even if in a court house.
Actually there is a way not to be in the same court room with them. In my ugly, nasty divorce we had two different rooms. I absolutely refuses to be on the same room with my evil ex husband. And my lawyer 100 percent supported me. It was so much more peaceful having the lawyers take charge of it, instead having to look at my ex’s evil, cold eyes. When I did have to pass by him , I never looked at him and wore my sunglasses. After 20 years he could not get to me anymore. I had my lawyer by my side , he was my shield and weapon. My ex did even try to intimidate my lawyer. For that purpose I chose a male lawyer, who was also a criminal defense lawyer besides divorce issues. There was no way my ex could mess with him. And now 2 years later if anything comes up I will have my lawyer contact the ex husband. I know that any communication with him would set me back 2 plus years. And I have worked so hard and will not ever let him push my buttons again. I would rather pay my lawyer a fortune than having to deal with the ex. For 20 years he told me I was crazy and now I know that it’s called “crazy making “. I am in control now and I will never give that up to him again.
I initiated No Contact today with the Narcissist I have been with for the past 2 and a half years. My goodness, what a roller coaster I have been on. It ends today! I suspected something was off with this guy a few weeks into our relationship. He had been separated from his wife and was ‘going through a divorce’ he had assured me that his marriage had ended 3yrs prior to the divoce proceedings. Well, 2 and a half years later and his is still not legally divorced. He blamed is wife for everything, why they were divorcing, the neglect he suffered at her hands during their marriage, the lack of love in the marriage, the absence of sex, the neglect of the kids and the fact that they are not legally divorced; it was all her fault! I was the opposite of course, I was kind, caring, compassionate, attentive, progressive. He had never been loved like this before, where had I been all his life? The adulation went on and on and on! I lapped it all up! I would never and have never been involved with a married man but this guy was so convincing! He was not in a marriage, only the legal certificate remained but they were not living together and had not been intimate for at least a year before the separation. I was kept away from his family, kids, friends; I was his little island! Some of his family members knew of me but I never met any of them. I am a smart, highly educated woman, inuitive and connected. I realized something was off! So I started to question some of the inconsistencies! The first silent treatment! I felt like death! What was going on? I was frantic, confused, I am also highly spirited so I expressed my anguish! I was met with greater withdrawal! I felt worthless! – devalued! The devaluing ranged from the silent treatments to daily withdrawals of Sex, attention, compliments, affection, things we enjoyed together! It was horrific! He is a judge and I felt like an accused party in his court! He punished me everyday over somethIng or other. I have a try-hard life script so the more dysfunction he created the harder I tried! I watched myself lose my mind! I saw his wife recently, she ‘caught’ us at his house one morning and then it clicked for me. She looked old and haggard; I thought she was his son’s grandmother! She was tied, abused, exhausted, drained and like me had aged well beyond her years! That was when I realized that I had morphed into the monster he had described early on in our relationship! I was an optimistic, enthusiastic, strong willed, kind and confident person! Who had I become? The years of his abuse had taken their toll, he had violated each one of my boundaries (starting with I do it date married men- the premise of our relationship) I was broken! So today, I started with No Contact! I read When Love is a Lie; Stop Spinning and Start Living; Psycopath Free, Disarming the Narcissit and may more resources! It all fit like a glove! Wish me luck!
thisreallyhappened….what a nightmare…they are pure evil wanting to destroy & manipulate everyone who sadly walks in their path of destruction.
So glad you now know the truth about this sociopath!! What a blessing!!!
Congratulations on No Contact!!! 🙂 DAY 1 !!!!! 🙂
Wishing you all the best on your healing journey.
(ps google “adrenal fatigue” and look at the symptoms on these sites Drlam. com and Adrenalfatigue. org…most victims leaving a abusive relationship with a sociopath have PTSD = adrenal fatigue)
Thank you Jan7, trust me, I googled it a few days ago and I am sure I’m suffering from it! Will consult with my GP next week and see if I cannot get some medical help! I am exhausted! This No Contact comes at the beginning of a discard, which was preceded by a 1 day Idealization – Monday and 1day Devalue Tuesday and a Discard Wed so the last few days had been dramatic. However, something felt different this time round, mane it was the rapidity of it I don’t know but I was not over come with panic, I felt calm and he just appeared horribly strange to me. I didn’t feel the need for answers or understand his strangeness, I just though – this guy is CRAYZY! So I started my reading and realized I better strike while the iron is hot! I was a successful, stable, functioning person before I met this guy! Oh the DRAMA!
thisreallyhappened, the very first second I met my ex h I thought he was a “tornado” the second time I met him, I thought he was “Crazy” like you not crazy fun but crazy crazy. I was dead correct…my gut radar was correct…but he sucked me in just like he can do to anyone.
The fact that the sociopath you are describing is a Judge is so incredibly scary to me…I can see him really creating unjust havoc in his court room giving the evil manipulative person a break while turning the tables on the true victim. What kind of Judge is he if you don’t mind me asking?
Im happy that you choose to do a search on the net & that you are following your gut now. Once I found out myself after I literally crawled out of my marriage I felt a weight lifted literally off my shoulders and that was the very day I was done with my marriage. I had prayed for answers to his crazy behavior and I was finally set free.
the crazy devalue, lovebombing, etc really does mess with our minds and pushes us over our emotional edge for sure. I don’t think any vicim of a sociopath walks away mentally unscaved.
Have you done a search on Gas lighting abuse on LF & on the net? Sociopaths love this stealth psychological manipulation as it really does push a victim over her edge.
It’s not easy to follow the no contact rule but it is the only way to have peace, calmness and your sanity. So when you feel like you want or need to contact him come here an just type away on the top post it really does help to get all of your emotions out and it will help you not to call him.
Congrats again. Hugs to you 🙂
He serves in the Criminal Court System, he is deplorable! His education, training and psychopathy made him expert at Gas Lighting me, he nearly really drove me crazy with the smoke and mirrors, constant lies, half-truths and then minimizing my experience, using very very fancy language to twist my reality and try to make me thing I’m imagining things. Of course when I drew a boundary and insisted on my sanity. I would be subjected to a silent treatment! It went on and on an on in cycles. A week ago after another silent treatment, he asked me why is it that things with me are never smooth, every 2-3 months I am always causing drama! The nerve! In a rage I sent him a txt msg that I would get my revenge, I was going to ‘out’ him. That was the last outburst, I have had at lest 50 in 2 years- out right rage festivals! Me? Really? Raging?! No! Not me! I no longer recognized myself! Never again!
Jan 7, I heard and read the term gaslighting before but just now took a moment to look it up. Scary stuff. And very recognizable. I remember one time he asked me to meet him somewhere, I waited for over an hour and he never showed. Then he called me later and said he never told me that. This type of thing, lies of omission, lies, cheating, confusing me, are all things that happen. It does feel like a tornado, and I asked myself “did I do something wrong, did I misunderstand?” It makes you doubt yourself.
My first appointment with my therapist I asked him to tell me if I was crazy. I really felt so confused, questioning myself and my actions. It left damage, am just now coming back from it all and it’s been a few years.
No contact is the only way I have been able to keep moving on. It is difficult and it takes patience with yourself but it can be done. In fact, after a few weeks he called me but I did not pick up. So he is circling back.
Thank you for your post. It crystallized again all of the crazy that we encounter. And it is abusive.
Hi Step, YES the gas lighting abuse is the worst. It literally will push a victim over their mental edge. extremely scary and sad!!
That is what they do…the send you on a wild goose chase then say they never “said that”. Then you sit their arguing with them about the fact they did instead of packing or sending them packing. You end up in the cycle of abuse.
I look back and prior to my ex I cut these type of people out of my life very quickly but with him I did not even though there was a marching band of RED FLAGS every where parading around him he still sucked me dry like he does with everyone.
They do push you to a point that you are questioning your own sanity. I just shake my head of the hell I was in & so many others that have posted here & other site….I wonder why this is not taught in school…makes me sick to my stomach to think of how many women are still in these abusive type relationship and how many more will sadly fall into one in the future. This could be prevented if the national domestic abuse centers spoke the truth = there are evil sociopaths & psychopaths and here is how you can spot one. But they don’t.
You welcome…here is a good list of question if you just google “gas lighting abuse”:
“….Gaslighting typically happens very gradually in a relationship; in fact, the abusive partner’s actions may seem harmless at first. Over time, however, these abusive patterns continue and a victim can become confused, anxious, isolated, and depressed, and they can lose all sense of what is actually happening. Then they start relying on the abusive partner more and more to define reality, which creates a very difficult situation to escape.
In order to overcome this type of abuse, it’s important to start recognizing the signs and eventually learn to trust yourself again. According to author and psychoanalyst Robin Stern, Ph.D., the signs of being a victim of gaslighting include:
You constantly second-guess yourself.
You ask yourself, “Am I too sensitive?” multiple times a day.
You often feel confused and even crazy.
You’re always apologizing to your partner.
You can’t understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren’t happier.
You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior to friends and family.
You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.
You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.
You have trouble making simple decisions.
You have the sense that you used to be a very different person ”“ more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
You feel hopeless and joyless.
You feel as though you can’t do anything right.
You wonder if you are a “good enough” partner…”
Pass this list on to all your girlfriends because 1 in 3 women will be in a abusive relationship sometime in their life so chances are you have several friends that are experiencing gas lighting abuse.
Thank you for posting back. Take care.
WOW…I wonder how many people’s lives he has destroyed in court and out of.
So happy that you know who he is….this is the moment your life changes when you learn that these evil evil people are in all walks of life.
They want to break everyone down with none stop mental games….we see the games but then they stop them for a few hours or days then they start up again…it’s like being in a tornado… you know something is not right but can’t put your finger on it you re just trying survive and can’t figure out what the heck is going on.
Such a crazy world….know I see them every where especially in the news or reality tv shows. It all makes perfect sense know…you can see them manipulating everyone around them and no one sees it because they are the kind hearted people who not manipulate others.
Have you looked at the domestic abuse power wheel? it really does spell out the type of daily/week chaos with a sociopath.
Good luck thisreallyhappened! Cute name… It does really happen even though we used to not think so before all of this….
Thank you Salvation2012, I never knew people this manipulative and evil existed! I have met assholes before (sorry for the swear word) but this is a level of psycho-pathology that can only ever be understood by someone who has been a victim of it! It is the craziest, spookiest thing I have ever experienced! But I feel stronger now that I have an idea what caused it! I almost went crazy!
Btw, I suspect he has a new supply source! Poor woman, hope she’s better equipped to see this Narcissit faster than I did. No one deserves this. Anyway it has nothing to do with me any more. Thank goodness!
yea someone mentioned in another post about sociopaths having “minions” it’s so true…I was a minion once, then became a wife and then NOT A MINION!