By | July 19, 2009 63 Comments

Mandatory sociopathy/psychopathy education for judges and DAs

I am late getting my blog done this week partly because I have been helping a crime victim get justice. I hope at some point to be able to share the entire story with you but for today I want to share part of it and not yet name the offender. The offender is in prison for kidnapping and physically assaulting (torturing) a child.

The victim’s mother provided me an official copy of the sentencing transcript where the defendant plead guilty to those crimes. He was sentenced to 3-12 years in prison. It is unclear to all of us exactly how it is determined if the defendant serves 3 years or 12 years or something in between.

The sentence of 3-12 years was handed down after the defendant and his attorney made the case that OCD caused him to torture the child. There was apparently a psychiatrist and a psychologist who diagnosed OCD and prescribed medication for same.

OCD is a mental disorder that involves obsessions or thoughts that keep replaying in a person’s mind and compulsions or behaviors that the person has to repeatedly do to reduce anxiety. For more on OCD see the US NIMH website.

Because I did not remember from my training any association between OCD and violence, I did a search and found this statement in an article summary of two cases of OCD with violent obsessional thoughts, “Both cases were characterized by preoccupation with aggressive thoughts and images, a need for reassurance that they would not act on their impulses, and a history devoid of violent or aggressive behavior.”

Nevertheless the court transcript indicated the Judge and even the DA believed the assessment that the defendant had OCD and that this played a role in his violent behavior. Furthermore they believed this to be a mitigating factor that lessened the sentence. The words of the Judge according to the transcript were, “My gut reaction in a situation where a person does not have OCD and getting treatment and so forth would be to really hammer you hard for a long, long time.”

I spoke with both the victim (who is now of age) and victim’s mother, because they wanted to understand the psychological state of the defendant. I asked them for specific examples of the offender’s behavior and verbal statements relating to both the offender’s contact with reality and symptoms of OCD and psychopathy as measured by the PCL-R. The offender was known to the victims for years and never displayed any symptom of OCD. He is your basic grandiose, charming and manipulative, power motivated psychopath who lacks empathy and remorse. His lack of empathy and remorse were apparent during his sentencing statement.

Both sources were able to give me specific examples verifying that the offender is likely highly psychopathic. There was also some evidence that the offender hallucinates and is paranoid. That evidence was provided by the victims and also by the offender’s statements during the sentencing. A psychotic psychopath is the most dangerous felon there is, want proof, check out Charles Manson.

In reading the transcript which was 45 pages long, I was struck by the observation that everyone in the proceeding seemed to be searching for an answer to the why question. Why did this perpetrator do what he did? In answering the question “OCD” they could maintain their sense of safety. The Judge said to the offender,

“I do believe that at your core you are a good person, this is just a problem you have. In the 10-15 years I have been doing this I have seen relatively few evil people come through the courtroom. Three, I believe, that were so inherently evil that everybody in the courtroom couldn’t wait to get them in the prison system because they hurt everybody they were around. And I don’t believe you are a monster and I respect your religious beliefs and hope they help you heal.”

The offender had convinced the Judge that not only did he have OCD, he was a true believer and constantly asked WWJD! And I mean this literally.

If the mental health statistics are correct and that 80% of offenders have some degree of psychopathy and 25% have the full blown syndrome there are so many sociopaths out in the world that it is likely no life will be untouched by the disorder. However, this Judge feels safe in his little bubble where he has seen only 3 evil defendants in his lengthy career.

It should be mandatory that all Judges receive an officially sanctioned educational program on psychopathy/sociopathy. That would help immunize them against being fooled by sociopaths/psychopaths and their corrupt attorneys.

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It’s about time!!!!


I could not agree more.

Ox Drover

QUOTE “It should be mandatory that all Judges receive an officially sanctioned educational program on psychopathy/sociopathy. That would help immunize them against being fooled by sociopaths/psychopaths and their corrupt attorneys.”

From your mouth to GOD’s EARS! Even reading this article made my blood pressure go through the roof and my eyes see RED FIRE! Thank you so much for being supportive of this victim and her family.


UNBELIEVABLE – I am so so sick – I just saw on – a video-
Scott Peterson’s family is trying to raise funds through a charity to appeal his death penalty case (even though the state already has done it – … ARRRGGGGHHH)

I would love it if this could be an issue Katheen or Dr. Leedom could get airtime on – maybe to discuss the book and how the public really needs education on psychopathy / sociopathy and

if you listen to the quote by his Dad and how he reframes the police who found his son guilty you have to believe Scott learned this at his fathers knee!

Ugh – I am going to be sick if he ever gets out. This is so frustrating.


I have thought this for some time. Have you proposed a course for continuing education training to any of the bar associations?


Most of the bar associations also have magazines – an informative article would be a good place to start.


honestly, i don’t care if they have OCD, are a sociopath, whatever….just because they don’t have remorse about what they did doesn’t mean they should’nt be punished. they still knew it wasn’t right. should be in jail forever. If you know you have a personaility disorder-take yourself away froma tempting situation, esp. hurting a child!!!


I am shocked at the way the court system seems to arbitrarily hand out what is loosely called justice. In many cases the judges don’t follow the law.

IMHO one of the problems we face is not that there are not good laws on the books, but that the laws are not enforced equally or fairly.

What does one have to do to get justice in this country? Appeal? Ask for a failure to charge suit?

I am shocked a criminal psychopath has the ability to pull the wool over any criminal court’s eyes. I’ve read this case and was also amazed anyone would think what he did was in anyway Christian behavior. I am a Christian and take great offense to that. Christian love is sacrificing for another not sacrificing children for your evil enjoyment.

I thought the judge was demeaning to the victim and his mother. He bent over backwards to appease the criminal who pled guilty to horrendous acts of child abuse.

I would be very interested to hear what a criminal FBI profiler would have to say about his testimony.

Please keep us posted. Thank you for all you’ve done to help.


I have to remind everyone of the Connolly boys slaying in Illinois. The abuser’s attorney stated in court he had severe depression. He had also violated the OP 57 times.

Yet the Judge thought it would help him out of his depression by giving him unsupervised visit’s. Then the abuser murdered his sons.

Why would a Judge think so little of those boys lives. Give him a kitten or a puppy but not 2 living breathing little boys.

Why is there so little accountability in the courts?

We all see the increase in father’s murdering their children. When will we stop it from happening?

Map of DV homides across the US.

It’s time to ask the court’s “What are you doing?”

Ox Drover


THANK YOU for the LINK!!!! That site is awesome, and ought to be enough to make a few people think—I son came “this” close to being listed on that web site as a murder victim when his wife and her BF tried to kill him! The stories bought tears to my eyes and made me ever so grateful to GOD for saving my son’s life. Thank you again! We are all fortunate here to have gotten away from those monsters.


Don’t even get me started on judges & the judicial system.

Who appoints these judges? POLITICIANS!

Judges are nothing more than political operatives for the politicians who appoint them, working under the veil of “judge”.

Furthermore, I’m not sure I am too keen on the LIFETIME appointments we give our judges.


Dr. L said: “There was apparently a psychiatrist and a psychologist who diagnosed OCD and prescribed medication for same.”

Rosa said: “Don’t even get me started on judges & the judicial system.”

And I say: Don’t get me started on judges OR psychiatrists and psychologists!

I agree with Dr. Leedom that Judges and Attorneys should have training on psychopaths/sociopaths as the more knowledge the better. But even if they do, when some hired gun psychiatrist or psychologist enters the courtroom (like is done in many cases) and presents testing results and a diagnosis, I would imagine the Judge is going to give more weight to a professional in the mental health field than his own “opinion” of what the disorder might be because the law requires “proof” or “evidence”, which is what a psychiatrist testimony would be.

And really, if psychiatrist and psychologist are duped by the psychopath and get it wrong in spite of mental health being their field of expertise, how can we expect a Judge whose field of expertise is the law and not mental health to not be duped. Even in domestic or child custody cases, the judge often has not much more than “he said, she said” type testimony, and for goodness sakes, WE were duped by the psychopath (even after alot of interaction sometimes because they are just that good and believable) so it isn’t like a Judge is psychic and knows which party is actually telling the truth and which one is lying. In course, WE know we are the ones telling the truth and the P is lying, but how would a Judge know it was not the other way around and know how to distinguish the P from the normal person, unless the P has a length criminal record or something for the Judge to give weight to ?!
But of course, training would help. I just doubt it is going to make a Judge a magician in pulling truth out of a hat when it comes to the psychopath.

And while training is going on, I think it would be REALLY helpful if psychiatrist and psychologist could get their Sh*t together and get properly trained and in agreement about apd, sociopathy, and psychopathy and how to diagnose it.


I think judges have done an excellent job of showing us all that they are going to do exactly what they want when it comes to handing down sentences, regardless of the evidence they may have in front of them.
There are examples all over this site, and in the media.

Another factor to consider, it’s not the judge who determines guilt or innocence in criminal cases, it is the jury.
They need to be educated as well.

Bottom line, we all need to be educated.

Elizabeth Conley

It’s inexcusable for a Judge to be ignorant of the psychological profile of criminals, since this speaks directly to probable recidivism.

It just doesn’t make sense for this ignorance to continue.


Okay, I take back my comments on another block about pitying narcissopaths. Pity should be reserved for innocent victims.


Great…what about educating cops? I was falsly arrested numberous times the 15 months married to Socio. He called 911 over 75 times !!!! Finally the reports to his house (after we got divorced) say “Mentall Ill Person”. Gee…ya think? I finally have some money to sue over the crap that I was put through, but who do I sue? The Sheriff’s Dept. or him? I can’t do both. What attorney do I get to sue the Sheriffs Dept? I have to do this before the statue of limitations is up.


Please keep lobbying for training for those in the legal system. An maybe a little investigation?
I am currently facing mediation with my p-ex ; he’s also worked in sales for 15+ years, so it will be up-hill all the way. Mediators aren’t trained to spot men like him.
He has worked with the same attorney for 20 years(she also was mine years back, but this WASN’T a conflict of interest??? in our divorce according to WI officials.) She’s helped him divorce destroyed wives #2 and #3, and get off on a sexual harrassment in the workplace suit. Does this say anything about the legal system?


I could not sympathize with you more. I was married 25 years and to a npd/sociopath. He fooled the judge , He fooled my attorney and he is now dating someone that knows the “Big Guys” ~ You can’t win with them. They fool the entire world. When it comes to the judicial system it sould be Absolutely Manditory that they be familiar with this subject. They even said that they would put me in jail because I said during a hearing that he was lying. Throw me in jail ????? My attorney , I believe , had a confilict of interest as I believe that she knows My ex’s girlfriend. In your case You definitely sound like you have a confilict of interest and I would pursue it with every dime I had to bring the subject out in the open. Your attorney cannot fight for you then drop you and become his attorney that is a major Confilict of Interest unless you two agreed to use the same attorney which I am not sure is legal?? I hope all goes well with you. My son lost the case because the law just could not support his not paying me. However, when I went to my attorney to hold him in contempt for not paying the attorney said he was not contemtual so was not in contempt. I have not recieved that money to this day. The judge did not even uphold his own sentence but said that he would have to re-hear the case. I don’t think that this was legal either.


I meant to say husband at the end not son ~ sorry, I have PTSD from my long marriage to a sociopath and cannot even work. It was hell on earth and no judge even begins to understand the implications of the n has on his spouse.

Ox Drover

Dear Dezzyray,

Welcome to LoveFraud, glad you have arrived here. Knowledge=power, so read and learn and read more and learn more! The more you know, the easier the healing road will become. You will have validation and support here. Again, welcome!


Ditto to Oxy on the welcome Dessyray.

There are a number of us long termers on this site, ( long term with a PSN that is). I am wondering how long you have been NC? I could barely function by the time I made the leap off the cliff and got out of my fake marriage with the gaslighting on full tilt for at least 15 years. It has been about 18 mos. and I am still fighting the legal battle, altho have had some very lucky breaks, and a judge that ruled in my favor.

Definitely education for the professionals and for all of us would narrow the playing feild for these monsters. I went through three therapists trying to fix the unfixable and they NEVER explored the notion that I might be with a P. One of the big reasons our marriage needed fixing was beause of a major major lie – that caused us to move from my support group etc etc, and he continued to lie about it for 7 years. The therapists??No biggie, that was in the past, move along, nothing to see here.

I think it has become so common place for people in positions of power and control to lie that the sting of the lie’s damage has been lost. The gravity of the moral implications when someone is able to lie constantly is excused somehow, accepted as part of our culture. People have become complacent about evil, jaded about the justice system, jaundiced by politics, and don’t get me started about Wall St. Let’s face it, big business is structered “sociopathically” and big business runs a good chunk of the world.

The judge in the case above did a terrible job of delivering justice. And further more, couldn’t OCD as in his interpretation be faked by anyone, including the most violent P’s?? How I wish we could empty the jails of all the non-violent drug offenders and fill’em up with these guys. Including all the highly successful but criminal P’s wreaking havoc at the highest levels of status and power.

Makes me feel like we who value honesty, trust, compassion, empathy,love,loyalty, and all the other human goodstuff have become an invisible minority. Surrounded by true P’s and others who have acquired the behavior and integrated it into their winner take all, profits above people,he who dies with the most toys wins mentality. Was Gordon Gekko a sociopath in the film Wall St.?

Anyhow, excuse my rant, and welcome again. I am starting to have longer and longer periods of “normal” “peaceful” “happy” – having totally forgotten what that felt like. I hope you will soon be healing and experiencing joy again. Take good care of yourself, induldge in LF, and celebrate that you are finally away from the P.


Ox Drover

Dear eyes WIDE OPEN,

I think back to the Bible story of what the world was like before “Noah’s flood.” Only 9 people in the entire world worth a flip! sometimes I think it is a good idea God promised in the Bible story not to destroy the world again by a flood—or I would be out building my own “ark.” LOL I agree with you that the world is not necessarily run by the ‘good guys”—even here if Blogo and a few others are examples, but at the same time, I do have faith that there ARE good people in the world and a bunch of them are here at LF. (((hugs))))


Can’t believe Donna did that.

Hecates path

Oxy – I went back to reply to your comment about us LF folks holding hands – was going to tell you it gave me a nice flashback to those old coca cola commercials (“I’d like to teach the world to sing…” ) Anyway, the whole post, comments and all, is missing, so here I am on this thread… Man even thinking bout that commercial 30 + yrs later makes me want a coca cola … brilliant ad, LOL!


Tilly said: “Can’t believe Donna did that.”

Well, I can, and I applaud her. Reading some of the latest comments on some of these threads is like being transported back to the school playground and watching a bunch of immature kiddies squabble.

Could WE ALL PLEASE stop jumping to conclusions based on very little information and if we don’t like the way someone initially presents themselves just don’t respond and adopt a wait and see attitude. This squabbling and tossing barbs is soooooooooo very distracting and it takes away from a very fine message board with informative articles.

Ox Drover

Here, here!!! Jen!!!


Is anybody on?


I echo Oxy’s “here. Here”

Until I just read Jen’s explanation of what the deleting comments, etc., I was ready to flee. (And grateful that I have learned to flee instead of freeze.)

I’ll give LF one more chance.


There is way to much inappropriate stuff going on here tonight.


Witsend, I understand. I hope you did read about my good news, though, and know that I hope good news showers on you soon — I’ll be praying about your problem. God knows what it is.


We will have to agree to disagree ON EVERYTHING!. Seems Pianoman’s backstabbing and judgemental ways are contagious and you caught it.


boink bonk to you too!


Do you even know what i was referring to ? I doubt it.


Well yu got rid o’ me for good!


A BIG HELLO to my community here~
It’s ErinB……a busy, busy ErinB currently…..
I wanted to check in and let you know I haven’t been killed off and I am doing GREAT!
My business is booming at the moment and I have been ‘reinstated’ back into my community after the damage that was done by the Ex S.
I have earned my colors.
I am dealing with the new S that temporarily appeared in my life and ‘hooked’ me…..a business associate.
I have learned so much about the Why’s, when’s and wheres, but not enough.
I find myself getting hooked on ‘WHAT IS SAID’……and hearing it through “MY” ears……what my brain and I would do in the situation…..BUT…..I know that in ANY SITUATION……WE CAN”T REACT….they keep on trying…..but we musn’t react…..internally or outwardly. We can step back and bore them…..then they move along…..if we keep them on the ‘road’ of constant travel…..maybe one day they will travel right off that cliff and disappear. At very least we do not need to be a part of it! PERIOD!
It’s our choices how we react to others, when we find ourselves getting hostile, and we all know this feeling of wanting to pounce and ‘show them’……we must curl up next to the rock and just let them pass. Especially if they do not ‘mean’ anything to us directly. If they are ‘close’ to us….then curl up next to that rock, let them pass, then strike when the timing is right and appropriate. If these toxic people are just moving through our lives……let them keep moving….don’t stall them with a pullout reststop by our actions/words.
NA NA NA …..GOODBYE…….that’s what comes to mind.
SO I am going to court AGAIN on Tuesday for this latest S…..oh, how he has tried to intimidate me……he’s good…..but I’m aware of it now…..been there, done that!
Yes, I still got hooked, because I have a good heart……But Fu$)) You……NOW! It’s legal eagle time.
I will pull on my ‘inner sociopath’ when needed and fight fire with fire.
I will share with you his latest excuse for not paying me the bundle that he owes…..
“OMG, when I arrived, I got a call from my brother and before I could even get out of the car…..he informed me I had to drive 3 states away, because my mother had passed away”
I called on the ‘inner Sociopath’ at that time and called bull shit on him…..
My reply was…
“OMG….I can’t believe that, I am so sorry to hear about your mother, I just can’t believe our connections….it’s like we are soulmates….BOTH OF MY PARENTS were killed on the same day in a plane crash”.
I SHOOK IT UP!!!!!! IT shut him down, his well rehearsed ‘story’ to deflect me with sympathy towards him……he had no idea what to say then…..and I turned the conversation back into the direction I WANTED IT TO GO! Which was, the money he owed me! I didn’t need to be defensive, I am trying to live on the offensive. I will not disect every accusation or statement made……THEY ARE JUST NOT WORTH THE REACTION!!!!
So……the moral of the story is……stay in control of ourselves, keep our awareness with us and present and keep on track of our own healing…’s a lifelong process!!!!
I miss you all….your warmth, generouse spirits, advice and humor!



Hi, Erin!

I’m so glad you’re taking names and kicking butt! Does my heart good to hear you sounding so feisty!

I’m bogged down in my job search, and was sat here, reading, getting my spirit recharged so I can come back swinging tomorrow.

I’m off to bed, but just wanted to say “Hi,” and send you good wishes.

All the best,

Ox Drover


That was GREAT!!! I will give that S an A+ for coming up with a real pitiful tear-jerking story of why he is so upset! LOL That is almost as good as “the dog ate my homework” LOL ROTFLMAO “my parents were both killed in a plane crash” LOL ROTFLMAO That’s a good one. How on earth did you keep from LAUGHING at that one! “My parents were killed TODAY, so that is why I haven’t paid you the money I owe you for the past two years.” LOL

I finally got my money out of the “X-friend” (not a lot, but it was MINE and I wanted and needed it.) I ahd actually given up on ever getting it so was happily suprised.

She called the other day with a great “deal” for my sons, I could hardly keep myself from choking and laughing. she ahd decided that since we have deer on our place that it would be a great deal for US if my sons would use their deer licenses and tage (that limits the amount of deer you can take) and shoot and clean several deer for her and deliver them to her and she WOULD BUY THE AMMUNITION. Ok, let’s see, how that works…for each deer they hunt, haul, clean, butcher and wrap, she furnishes one bullet at approximately $1.25 each, or two if they are bad shots (they’re not) so they would get the thrill of hunting and shooting the deer, spending hours dragging it out of the woods, butchering it etc. and then she would replace the bullet. WOW, what a DEAL for them!!!!

Something tells me that they’re not going to jump on that deal very quickly. LOL

The even funnier part is that she has no idea even just how selfish her “deal” sounds (because it IS) or that there is anything even remotely “wrong” about her “offering” such an “opportunity” to someone. ROTFLMAO

Erin, did you find out where the double funeral from that “terrible accident” will be held, so you can send FLOWERS! ROTFLMAO. Glad things are going wel lfor you, you are an awesome WOMAN WARRIOR!!!! You GO GIRL!!!!



The deer story! Omigod, that’s funny. I know someone just like that…I must deal with her at work, but thankfully not on a personal level.

Very entertaining story.

I meant to jump on LF yesterday to thank you in particular, Oxy, for all the time you devote to newbies and everyone else here. So thanks.

Ox Drover

Dear Tood, You are very welcome and thanks for the pat on the back, I do it out of gratitude and love for this site, it has saved my sanity I think (if anyone would “accuse” me of being SANE! LOL)

Yea, I am laughing over that “deal” all morning my self. She just does NOT “get it” how inappropriate it is for her to even OFFER such a “deal.” first off, people DO “hunt for others,” here but it is NEVER appropriate to ask for such a thing any more than it would be to ASK for a GIFT. I guess she might have known it wasn’t okay to ask for a “gift” so she offered the “deal” instead. LOL It is on the line of asking to “borrow” your tooth brush or douche bag! LOL (sorry for being so graphic but that’s just the level it is on) and to offer to “pay” for the AMMUNITION is just beyond it all!!!

This is the same woman who bought a beef from me on an eat now pay later plan and I almost didn’t get my money, took a year. Now it is NOT because this woman is “poor” if that had been the case I would have DONATED the beef, it is that she is a spend thrift and keeps herself and her poor long suffering husband deeply in the hole with her friviolous spending. I didn’t realize it at the time I sold her the side of beef, which, BTW was dead when she said “Oh, can we pay on the installment plan?” I had no where to keep the meat by then so I was sort of “tricked” into it. I can tell you one thing though, any future beef purchases will be cash on the barrel head.


I think that women out there SHOULD be leary with regard to accepting a mate into their lives. There is a way to give to another without putting yourself in a situation where you could wind up losing your home, your money, your kids or yourself! Under NO circumstances give your mate money. I don’t care if someone tells you he’ll pay it back. It will never happen. As far as I’m concerned, start considering yourself as being “old fashioned” (even though we live in a modern world) and tell your mate that until he proves that he can support himself, then you will consider something more serious. “I love you” does not constitute giving a man money…under any circumstance! Do not sign over the deed to your house to him! I remember reading a blog from a woman, when I first stumbled upon this site. She was having to fight for her and her kids home because, after she became “engaged’ to a man, he coerced her into putting his name on the deed, because it showed him that she really loved him! She was in the process of spending alot of money in court to have him taken off the deed after he dumped her and moved out.


Backatcha … not once, never, not at any time in my childhood years or early adult years did my caregivers or educational system ever forewarn me about the evil that exists out there in potential mates… I truly feel so STUPID about this… especially because I cant put the blame on anyone. I just WISH I had some kind of knowledge going into the adult world… I wouldnt have been so naive and trusting and seeing everyone as “good” souls. Anyway talk about “triggers” your post totally hit home with me about warning women and men and OUR CHILDREN out there to be leary with regard to accepting a mate into their lives! MAKE BETTER CHOICES AND HEED THE RED FLAGS!!! Thanks for that reminder for me to keep following up with our highschool counsellor about bringing more awareness to our teenagers!


Yes….Learnthelesson, it is hard for me to talk to my daughter, who is 24 about this. She is just too trusting and she gets very annoyed with me when I try to explain to her that some people are just not “good”, females included. Yes, some people do fit the Socio profile perfectly, while others meet perhaps the first 5 characteristics on what I refer to as the “long list”. That does not make them Socio’s, but if you can check off the first 5 as matching a person perfectly, steer clear! While nobody is perfect, we must still warn our children about the dangers that can and will ultimately change their lives. On a lighter note!…….I have always wanted a vanity license plate, so I ordered one when I had to get new tags. I am waiting patiently for it to arrive in the mail. It will read “JADID”. Another person already has a tag that reads “JADED” which was my first choice. Go figure! hahahaha My friends think I’m crazy, but I thought it was appropriate AND funny!

Ox Drover

Dear Backatcha,

I think it is funny too! Though I actually dont’ think we ARE “Jaded” I think that we are becoming WISE and CAUTIOUS.

I was reading a book last night about horse training and the author pointed out that horses are prey animals and that their primary defense is to RUN AWAY and that anything “new” in their environment may “spook” them because the ones that did NOT spook at just about everything were weeded out of the gene pool by the predators eating them! Since man was a predator of horses and hunted them for food for 100,000 years before we domesticated them about 6,000 years ago, in some ways they still “see” us as predators, so we must over come that in training them.

Even though horses are no longer (in most places) subject to attacks from lions etc they still maintain their instincts. Humans have also been “prey animals” in the past, but now that we no longer live in caves and trees and don’t have to worry about lions and tigers preying on us, the ONLY PREDATOR FOR BOTH HORSES AND MAN IS MAN.

The horse has maintained his instincts and so have we, but we have “dampened them down” with social TRAINING just like we have trained the horses not to be so afraid of us. Our socialization starts at birth and we are trained that “there is good in everyone” (THAT’S A MYTH!!!!) and that we must “Not make a scene” or “we must not embarass someone in public no matter how outrageously they behave” and all the other “we must do so-and-so” and not “hurt someone’s feelings” and we must “put others before yourself or you are selfish” and so on and on and ON!

We are adults now, but we must RETRAIN ourselves to be cautious and to LISTEN TO OUR INSTINCTS, but because of our training, our instincts are diminished. Like for example the horse, who would view a dog as a WOLF predator, but because the yhave been trained that a dog running along side of them is “okay” they have dampened down that instinct to be afraid of wolves.

My wonoderful step father tried his best to train my instincts, HIS WERE EXCELLENT MOST OF THE TIME, about other people being “problems.” I would bring home a friend that he saw some problems with (though I didn’t) and he would calmly and sweetly tell me “Honey, that person just ‘won’t do’ ” and I, of course, would NOT listen, but before long, the person would do something that was dead WRONG and I would see he had been RIGHT. This happened over and over. He wasn’t pushy about his advice, but I eventually came to appreciate SO MUCH his instincts. HE LISTENED TO THEM TOO.

I know that my instincts are not as sharp as his, but I do know some CARDINAL SIGNS of someone who “just won’t do” and so I use the observations of behavior to “weed these creeps out of my garden of life.”

People who lie….and we know all psychopaths lie
People who steal…we know all psychopaths are dishonest
People who treat others rudely….we know psychopaths are rude when they think they can get away with it.
People who try to become too familiar TOO SOON…CAUTION with people is a good idea…
People who really don’t know me and yet want me to TRUST THEM completely…trust should be EARNED not given away.
People who do not live up to their own responsibilities and do not provide for themselves–we know psychopaths want us to provide for them something….whatever their goal is.

By observing behavior and being CAUTIOUS with trust, and withholding trust from those that show ANY of the signs of a disordered person, whether they are a BIG TIME P or just a creep-jerk, doesn’t matter. I keep them at “arm’s length” where they can’t hurt me much if any. they are the snakes I can SEE rather than the snakes hidden in the grass that rear up unexpectedly and bite me!


Backatchya – Cool license plate! Its so fun and rewarding when we do something for ourselves that feels good and doesnt really bother us if our friends think we are crazy!!! Good For You! ps. I have printed out a few Lovefraud Articles and required my daughters to read them. It seems talking to teenagers/young adults is so challenging – Ive found that by having “required reading time” they may actually start to process that its not just Mom who is going “blah blah blah blah blah”…but real life stories in the real world. Especially Kelsi’s story it really touched my eldest into being aware that not every guy is a guy with good intentions…



I giggled. Because right now if I so much as whispered to my middle one “honey, that friend just wont do” – I think she might become best and inseparable friends with that person…. but I do like the People list you posted..its helpful to just be able to provide her with things in writing that didnt come from my mouth… Why is it that Mom all of a sudden doesnt know what she is talking about when her kids are in the teenage years? Its like all of a sudden (in their minds) I just stopped being able to care for nurture protect …and Im like a bump on a log…during the years I can give the most to them in terms of advice and warnings.

Life is so strange that way! I guess its the independent years… maybe it shouldve been that the flashcards we use to play with as toddlers should have had “Good Guy” “Bad Guy” on them instead of “Apple” “Banana” – lol…. just rambling…just so frustrating trying to teach them anything at this age! LOL

Ox Drover

Good point LTL, fortunately my sons do GET IT NOW in spades! But only after one was married to a P, and the other one dated a P and was engaged to her.

Young people that age are learning to make their own decisions and want to feel smart, knowledgable and independent, which is a normal stage of development and all the studies show 99.999% (made up statistic) listen to their peers more than parents! LOL I know I did at that age. Hopefully your kids will get the message in the “required reading” LF print outs!


When I was in labor with my first child, I was FURIOUS with the world in general because no one told me just how bad it was going to hurt. Ha! So once my own daughters reached puberty, I made certain to tell them the facts of childbirth and not sugarcoat them one bit. The daughters who have given birth so far tell me they were prepared for the tough, gritty reality in the delivery room.

As far as human predators go, like so many others, I did not know they existed. And so I went into relationships as unprepared as I had been in that first delivery room. Growing up, I had listened to my grandmother, mother, and other female relatives say things like “men only have one thing on their minds,” or “so-and-so is a sorry no-good leech.” But those cautionary tales were just normal life lessons, and didn’t prepare me for what was to come.

There was even a phase in young adulthood when I took to reading true crime books and giving myself chills by reading scary stories, but the things I learned from books didn’t prepare me either. I thought psychopaths were serial killers, formed only rarely, by the worst of abusive backgrounds. Now I know better, but my children had to bear the brunt of the damage from the psychopath I didn’t see, by being misused and abused. I can’t say that anything in particular could have warned me off the evil man who pretended to be everything I ever wanted. But some education about predators early on certainly couldn’t have hurt.

I’d love to see judges and DAs get some education on this subject, but more than that I agree with the previous posts about high school education. We have programs to teach young people how to handle finances, how to cook, how to take care of a baby, and how to drive. Some progressive schools even educate young women about date rape and boyfriend batterers. That sort of program should be expanded to include toxic relationships of all kinds.

And getting this sort of education into schools is a real possibility. The “life skills” framework already exists.

In the meantime, I’ve had at least 50-50 luck with this link in particular, as I continue through life, warning others where and how I can:

That’s Dr. Joseph M. Carver’s “Are You Dating a Loser?” quiz. I’ve passed that one along to a couple of young people in bad situations. One understood right away, but another didn’t, and eventually married the loser in question. All the information is presented in such a nonthreatening and accessible way. It’s a good way to start a conversation.


Oh yes…Tood.. that link is AWESOME! I think it was James who got me hooked on Dr. Carvers articles…Its been a while tho, so I should def get some of my “required reading” for my kids from that link too!

And I hear you about the tough, gritty reality in the delivery room!!! I never curse and apparantly I cursed at my OBGYN with my firstborn – because after pushing for hours he said Is that that best you can do? Im disappointed! (In an effort to not let me give up!:) Well…I let him have it with all my might and voice…and low and behold she arrived ! We still laugh about it… He said it was the first time a Mom cursed at him!!! And I must add, I remember the ensuing week, of healing and nursing while taking a sitz bath and all the “aftermath” of my stitches healing in the most awkward of places and the breast soreness etc….I remember turning to my sister who had not given birth yet and said “SOMEONE NEEDS TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE 1st WEEK AFTER HAVING A BABY” and what to expect, because it was nothing AT ALL like I expected! LOL

Re: Educating our teenagers. Our highschool is open to discussions about how to proceed and build the proper forum – but there is concern about labeling and isolating some. Looking forward to following through with it in the fall!

And hopefully Dr. Leedom is making progress with the Judges and DA’s getting some education on the subject too!



In going through recent posts I havent seen any from IndianaJim…I havent been able to catch up in a while tho…just wondering if he mentioned how he is doing and if things were getting better with all the chaos he came across. If theres any update I missed, please let me know. Thanks.

Otherwise, Jim, check in soon when you can! Thinking of you and all those flags over your way that werent part of the Indy 500!! xoxo


Last night was the first time I didn’t attend a back-to-school night, in the past 20 years. My ex N/S who’s been uninvolved in our children’s lives, suddenly decided to get involved; not with the kids, as much as with the appearance of being an involved parent. The kids are outraged that he gives more energy to the appearance of “involved” then he cares to put forth in the actual realtionship.

Today, when my 15 year old daughter went to school, she had several teachers comment…”Oh, I met your Dad. He’s really nice.” My daughter described feeling suddenly weak, helpless, nervous, anxious, and angry all at the same time.

When she responded, “You see, I don’t have anything to do with my Dad.” These well meaning teachers (like well meaning judges) kept singing his praise. One of them, proceeded to lecture her about how much her father cares about her, and how lucky she is that he’s so dedicated to her.

Even when my daughter repeated herself, they didn’t get it. And, spoke to my daughter, as if she were ungrateful, to not realize how lucky she is to have such a dedicated father.

She finally said, “I don’t spend any time with my Dad. He abused me, my brother’s and my sisters. He cheated on my Mom for most of their marriage. He is constantly dragging my Mom back into court, telling the court that we want to spend time with him, and my Mom isn’t letting us. The truth is… We HATE him. He knows nothing about who I am, or what I do. He doesn’t ask me about my education, my grades, my sports. He could care less. He’s only came to the school, so he could make my teachers believe he’s an involved Dad. He wants the world to believe he’s a great Dad, more then he wants to actually be one.” Then she broke down, sobbing.

What worries me is that I’ve introduced myself to her teachers, every year, communicating with them, several times a year, and never once has any of my children’s teachers commented… “What a nice Mom you have.” My ex N/S shows up one time; making such a big impression, the teachers perceive that he’s a wonderful father.

After my daughter made known how she feels about her father, the two teachers that really pressed her about how wondeful her father was, immediately felt her pain, and shared that they had father’s who were all about appearences also; offering my daughter support, compassion, and an open door, should she ever want to talk. I just wonder why they didn’t pick up on my daughter’s immediate reaction to their praising her Dad. She didn’t smile, get excited, blush…she went pail, felt sick, and disoriented. Why didn’t they see this, when they had similar experiences?

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