By Mary Ann Glynn, LCSW, located in Bernardsville, New Jersey
Partners in our support group are often confused by the fact that after a verbal outburst, physical abuse, or once the ruse is up, sociopaths may seem remorseful. They might see the consequence of their actions, may even cry and be emotional, or apologetic. There might be efforts to change by more responsive or caring behaviors. If the relationship gets pushed to the breaking point, they may engage in therapy. Most partners’ experience the sociopath in therapy as completely blaming everything on them and/or trying to control the therapy sessions. But, some had a different, more perplexing experience.
Their experience was that the sociopaths appeared to be quite motivated to improve the relationship and to made headway expressing remorse, feelings, even empathy for their partner. Their behavior seemed to make a turnaround so that their partner believed that they had seen the light, and that the loving caring person they used to be returned. Their faith was restored in the potential for a loving relationship and intact family. It’s not impossible after all, right?
In the end, even when everything looked promising, partners reported one of these things happened: 1) As soon as therapy ended, the sociopath’s behavior reverted back. 2) When therapy started getting into deeper underlying issues for behavior, the sociopath disengaged. 3) In trying to empathize with the pain or hurt they caused their partners, sociopaths were able to speak words of empathy, but their partner didn’t feel they got or felt it. This is very tricky. Empathy by definition means that you can feel another’s pain as if it were your own. What the brain feels when you perceive someone else’s pain, or any other emotion for that matter, is the identical experience as if you yourself were going through it.
If, in a couples session, partner1 is openly sharing hurt, etc., and partner2 attempts to empathize, partner1 can always “feel” if partner2 gets, or feels, it too. If that happens, partner1 feels connected to partner2, and vice versa. What happened with sociopaths is, even if they express words of empathy for their partner’s feelings, their partner does not feel they are getting (feeling) it. The sociopath may even seem to be showing emotion, but it’s not their partner’s emotion — they’re more likely stuck in their own feelings of shame or victimhood. Pay attention to this if you go to therapy with a sociopath! When you don’t feel “heard”, like your partner can’t get to feeling your emotion, they are not empathizing with you.
Temporary remorse
So let’s get back to remorse. Remorse should affect behavior — not temporarily, but permanently. It’s about conscience, which is completely dependent on the ability to empathize. There are times we are all capable of turning down our consciences when it serves us, like telling a lie, taking supplies home from work, being defensive about our behavior, being insensitive, losing our tempers, being petty. But, once someone tells us openly how our behavior affects them, our conscience should make us have a different response.
For example, if you blow off plans with a friend several times without thinking anything of it, and then the friend comes to you and expresses hurt, rejection, not feeling important to you, or whatever, you are likely to feel their pain (empathy) and feel bad/guilty. If that friend identifies a childhood trigger in there, e.g. being blown off made them feel like in middle school when the group made rejected them, then your empathy quotient jumps much higher! Are you likely to blow off this friend anymore? No! If you had no ability to feel your friend’s hurt, your response would likely be defensive and cold, because it would just be about your indignation for them perceiving you that way.
No empathy — no remorse
If someone is not capable of empathy, they are not capable of remorse, and therefore change. Period. The brief feelings of remorse or regret you witness in a sociopath is likely to be about screwing something up they wanted (shame) or losing someone or something they wanted (victimhood) – in other words, it’s for themselves. They may believe themselves that they are making great strides in honesty and change — but it never really gets past their narcissism to feeling your pain. It’s more like a brief soiree into the anxiety of having lost control or lost something, in which they scramble to regain control and/or it. Once they regain control or what they lost, they’re done changing. Being disconnected from your feelings, they have no reason to keep up the change, and default back to being the way they were.
Katherine Underwood, in disguise, pursues her ex, Budimir Drakulic, who owes her $1.6 million
This is an excellent explanation. I would like to add that this is the time when we tune into our gut to know if the remorse or the empathy is real. Just like when a toddler is crying and it isn’t real, your body will tell you that something is off.
Never override what your body tells you. What you feel in your gut is real. If you feel that your gut told you something was real when it wasn’t, look again. What did your heart want to be true? And did you let your heart override all the that your gut told you?
I will be the first to admit that I ignored all that my body told me about the Bad Man because I wanted LOVE so bad, back in the day.
So glad to be long past the Bad Man days and I am grateful for the lessons.
Aloha :O)
Alohatraveler,
You are so right about what you feel in your gut is real. And listening to your intuition. If only I would have done that! So many times along the way I went against my “gut”. Why? Because my husband when we are with other people treats me as if I am a queen. The adoration, the gifts, etc. Behind closed doors, the Jekyll and Hyde persona comes out.
I never felt that my husband truly had any remorse for anything. In fact, when we would be talking about business (we are both in the same industry), or life in general, he made numerous comments about winning at all costs. He has admitted to me that when we disagree and argue, a person should not back down at any costs, including going for the jugular. The first time we had a conversation about this, outside of a heated moment, and he admitted this, I remember being so confused. If you completely obliterate somebody’s ego, affection, opinion, how is that victory?
We are separated now for three and a half weeks and had one counseling session last week and go again tomorrow. Any words of wisdom or insight are greatly appreciated at this point. I think I am on a merry go round, we just go round and round and I am the blame for every problem in our marriage. Even now, my stomach is in knots and I feel sick knowing I will see him tomorrow.
Thank you to everyone that posts on this sight, it helps me read other stories.
Hugs,
Platinum,
Read the article, again. If you truly believe that he has a personality disorder, is a remorseless, unempathetic, abusive, and win-at-all costs person, then NO counseling would be best.
If you do not have children that you both need to tend to, then get away as quickly as possible, and go completely NO contact. This will seem extreme, harsh, mean, cold, and out of character. But it isn’t.
If you have been with someone who has been manipulating your thoughts and feelings for some time, then having BOUNDARIES, taking care of YOURSELF first, protecting your heart, not allowing ANY abuse, will feel really strange.
He will certainly want you to feel like you are the baddie.
If you have children, there are LOTS of folks on here who have good advice about custody, court, communication, etc….
But bottom line: if you can WALK AWAY. Do NOT listen to another word this person has to say. A sociopath uses language, WORDS, as weapons, not as a means to communicate and build connection with others. They use it to lie, manipulate, hurt, and WIN.
Listening to them just creates more confusion in the target.
Bring the focus back to yourself, what you KNOW is true. Your own experiences are REAL. No matter what he says, or what anyone else believes.
((((hugs))) Slim
Slimone,
Thank you so much for your response. I read it right after getting out of a two hour therapy session with my husband and I am absolutely baffled at what happened in that session!
Saw my husband in the waiting room prior to our session, (after pretty much no contact for over a week) and he asked me about my job. I recently took a new job at significantly less money but with a contract that if I help get this start-up company going, I will have equity in the company. So I told him that it was still too early to tell but I was offered another job last week. He asked if it was for more money and I said yes. He then said, “Well you better take it, because we need to figure out things in a hurry.” WTH
We went into counseling and it was blame me for everything, and he was pretty much done. The counselor even said, “It sounds like you are done.” My husband said yes, so I looked at the counselor and said well I guess we won’t need you for the two hours, but I would like to talk to you alone as I have some questions. My counselor kept talking to my husband and before long my husband is telling the counselor all kinds of things like I never wanted his adult children at our house, etc. Complete fabrications.
The counselor says we need to have more interaction and I brought up that every time I know I am going to meet my husband I start feeling really really ill. His suggestion was to get together for dinner in some public places and maybe this will bring my anxiety down.
I am completely shell shocked at what happened at that therapy session. My hands are still shaking. I do not know if my husband has a personality disorder but I know from experience he shows no remorse and empathy. He also lies….a lot, over small and large things.
I am wondering if the shit show in the waiting room was designed to throw me off. When we walked into the counselors office I was so flustered I’m sure I came off as an imbecile to the counselor.
The counselor said we need to practice forgiveness to one another.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I think I am going crazy!!!
Warm regards,
Platinum,
Yes, the waiting room tactic was to throw you off. Anytime the Spath can get the upper hand, he will. Mine has done that same thing to me several times. Once, right before we walked in to the counselor, he told me that I was not invited to parent’s house for the annual Christmas dinner. I cried and then was off my game in the session, which made me look weak. It was a set up.
Remember that your husband knows you well. He knows what soothes you and what sends you over the edge. While marriage counseling is not advised if you are married to a spath, because of the manipulation, if you still are on the line to his true personality and you feel you must go, then be on guard at all times! Expect a setup, expect a side story, expect attacks……..and just when you’ve had enough and are ready to ditch the creep, he will turn it all around and take the blame, beg forgiveness, and pledge his undying love to you forever. IT’S A SETUP! All of it. Think about it; your emotions don’t swing like that. If you love someone and want to work it out, you may get angry and frustrated, but you don’t love them then hate, love, hate. It doesn’t work that way.
Matthew 10:16 says
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
I love this verse because while it reminds us that the way we should treat others is in a compassionate way, it also warns us that the world is a vicious and unkind place and we should be wise to be aware of the ploys of our enemies.
Best wishes on staying strong and wise as you navigate through this.
Platinum, see my reply on the other post. I meant to post it here. Trust your gut feeling. There are psychotherapists out there who get it, but sounds like this is not one of them.
Platinum,
Hope to Heal is exactly RIGHT ON. It is all a set-up. You really are describing in precise detail the manipulations of a personality disordered person.
The deal is you will likely never get a diagnosis from anyone. So, you have to trust yourself, even though you’ve been conditioned, by your husband, to trust him, and not yourself and your own perceptions.
He pulled a classic punch in the waiting area. He wants you to look baffled, incapable, insecure, uncertain, worried, petty, weak, and confused. He doesn’t care what he has to do to make you appear this way (and FEEL this way).
No one who is ‘normal’ does this to people they love. Heck, they generally don’t do it to people they really dislike, even.
My concern for you is that further couseling with him and this therapist is only going to continue to erode your ability to clearly see, feel, and act in ways that are self-beneficial.
That said, it is a personal road for each of us and it can take time to work up the nerve and surety to cut ties, and not be forced or choose to try and do it as if you are in a ‘normal’ relationship. Many of us here have tried, feeling bad about ourselves if we don’t at least go through the motions of being the ‘good person’ during the ‘break up’ or ‘divorce’.
The deal is going through the motions can be damaging if it means you are undermined by your husband and a therapist.
Remember to WATCH and FEEL. Forget what you are HEARING. The words are lies, deception, TACTICS.
Take care,
Slim
I agree, I think it’s an attempt to control and manipulate you. It’s sometimes hard to see when it happens to you.
When I broke up with my spath ex, he appeared at an expo where he knew I would be. He followed me around from booth to booth and got very close to me, as if he wanted to smell my hair, even though I ignored him and we didn’t speak. I was still in love with him, and I hoped in my heart of hearts that this was a sign that he loved me and still wanted me. I went home and called a trusted counselor. I explained his behavior. She told me it was a power play. He wanted to exercise his control over me. Unfortunately for him it didn’t work. But without her advice, it would have. A sociopath’s main goal is to exert control/power over you. They can allow a certain amount of kindness and decency to you if they can control you (and this is what keeps you hanging on.) But if they feel you pull away, they will pull a power play to regain control.
Funny, I have been praying, begging, and pleading for help, and never in a million years would I have dreamed I would find it on this web site. I am stunned at how in such a short amount of time the answers are coming to me in waves…..through those that have posted their experiences on here. Thank you.
Right now I am reeling from the enormity of it all. I always knew something was “off” I could just never put my finger on it. If only I would work harder, try and look better for him, not piss him off or anger him. So much happened subtly that one day I woke up, looked in the mirror, and didn’t recognize that person anymore.
When you read such similar stories, experiences, and characteristics, it is difficult to wrap your arms around it. I just want to be that couple that everyone thinks is so perfect and such love birds. This, I now see, is a lie and was always a delusion. Lots of emotions.
But even in all of this, I find strength, hope, and solace in so many others words. I am going to start making a plan, by myself, and give me back my power.
So grateful for this site. God bless,
Platinum,
Welcome to Lovefraud. There is much information here that will help you.
If your husband displays the symptoms of a sociopath – see the “Key Symptoms” page in the red menu bar above – as everyone has said, you must leave.
Counseling is worse than useless – it can damage you further.
The inquiries about your new job – to me it sounds like he’s looking for information to see how he can manipulate your joint finances to his advantage. I suggest you lock down your finances. Make sure he’s not draining any joint accounts, or your accounts. Make sure he’s not running up the credit cards. make sure he’s not putting all the debt in your name.
Do not provide him with information about your future plans.
Stay strong.
Platinum, it’s a lot to wrap your mind around. This site saved my life in 2008. I drop in here from time to time because it makes me feel good to give back.
Did you ever hear the story about the man whose house was swept away in a flood? He prayed and prayed for God to save him. God told the man to sit tight – that he would save him. Pretty soon a lifeboat came by offering to rescue the man. “No” said the man. “God said He would save me, so I’ll just wait for Him.” As the water rose higher, a raft came by to rescue the man. But again, the man declined, waiting to be rescued by God. Finally the water rose to the top of the house. The man was standing on his roof when a helicopter came by to rescue him. But again, the man declined. Eventually he drowned. When he met up with God in the afterlife, he asked God why God didn’t save him. God replied, “I sent you a boat, a raft, and a helicopter! What more did you want?”
I guess my point is that we can never predict in which ways God (Spirit, or whatever you consider as a higher power) will direct us to find help. I’m glad you are open to receiving it here. This place can be very grounding when dealing with a world of people who don’t understand sociopaths. We all get it here.
Platinum,
Stargazer is right, God does lead us. I suffered through an awful marriage for 20 years and then spent a year in various types of counseling. Only when I found this site last December did I begins to understand what I am dealing with. I had made little progress in healing until I came here and got the “big picture”. Since that time, I have grown stronger and stronger.
The people here are, or have been, just as broken as you and I are now. Seeing their stories helps me make sense of it all. Before, I didn’t have all the puzzle pieces to the story. Now I do. It all makes sense. I’m sure you are feeling the same sense of shock and enlightenment. It’s the not understanding that makes it so hard. His lies and manipulation kept me so confused. I thought it was me. I stayed confused.
December to April is a short period of time. I feel confident that everyday, every article, every story will bring you closer to the resolution and peace you need. It is working for me. Have hope and stay strong.