Perhaps, in the aftermath of the terrible tragedy in Connecticut, people will finally start talking seriously about how to cope with the mentally disturbed. Liza Long, mother of 13-year-old boy who sometimes rages out of control, tells her story.
‘I am Adam Lanza’s mother’: A mom’s perspective on the mental illness conversation in America, on HuffingtonPost.com.
Dr. Liane Leedom recommended this story for Lovefraud readers.
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Ana
Thank you for your words. Even though you say you are done with LF, I hope you will continue to monitor and read. When you have something to say, esp something that NEEDS to be said, I hope you will post. It is why I came back. B/c I have something to say, a different perspective, and I didn’t see anyone else saying it.
Best, Katy
Oxy, as for what seems to be triggering me. It is a whole bunch of stuff, I think, and all jumbled up and I’m trying to detangle it and figure it out. I know that I will. So I’m not in a state of despair, but sure this is temporary bleak feelings, and they will pass.
Seems to be a mix of: the condemnation of the shooter’s mother (by some) and also the shunning of her (by many). I relate to that because of my experience with the CPS condemnation of me, and also because I am a single mother and love my kids so fiercely and want to be the best possible mom for each of them. And I always keep trying. If something doesn’t work — I examine and try something else, not willy nilly but working very hard to be a smart mom, too. It is painful to see/hear criticism and condemnation of mothers doing what is often a thankless and very tough job — we don’t quit on our sometimes very difficult kids.
(and sometimes we do have to finally realize if we have a messed up kid)
So, it’s the judgment I am hearing all around me in the news these days. Also the focus on the guns is quite upsetting. I’m not trying to engage in a gun control debate here. I will just say that it is triggering for me, apparently, to witness this gun control debate. I did actually engage in a debate over the past week with a friend who lives in Europe, and I ended up very unexpectedly on the receiving end of a bunch of self-righteous condemnation of “Americans” (I am the symbol of all Americans to this person, all of a sudden) and no matter what I said in defense of us Americans, he had withering criticism at the ready.
Because this was a “friend,” I kept trying to “explain.” (the sum of it was what idiots we Americans are because we “love our guns” and cling to the second amendment and how stupid can we be not to ban guns, what will it take, and how dare we, we are all to blame for this heinous massacre…)
I felt quite honestly at the receiving end of a very pointed finger of blame. I was trying to be a “voice of reason” and I could not get my message across. The more I tried, the more it became clear that he would not or could not listen to me. He cherry picked things that I said, didn’t answer certain questions I had (for example, the Norway massacre, Switzerland), and seemed hell bent on proving HIS points. Not listening.
So, that is the basis of where some of my recent Lovefraud comments have come from. It is about people (collectively or individually) deciding that they KNOW what is in a person’s mind/heart, and then deciding that they have the right to judge that person. (and probably are incorrect in their assumptions about what is in that person’s heart/mind in the first place! Or — maybe correct — but the point is they do not KNOW but they THINK they do).
It is like — well, hate to say this, but it is Christmastime after all — a symbol of someone who gets to be the recipient of all of our collective blame, and how it works when we place that blame onto someone else, it feels like we are washed clean/absolved. It is so tempting to project that hatred somewhere.
It is quite another thing to be on the receiving end of it.
And oh, so interesting to know that the projector of hatred actually believes himself to be a kind, loving, caring person who is so justifiably outraged at a horrific event that placing the blame on ME as the symbol of all that is wrong with America is not a wrong thing to do.
This person was my friend.
I feel a bit lonely today.
I know there are lessons for me in this. I’m waiting. 🙂
20 Years,
I definitely can relate on many levels to your feelings about all that you talked about.
Unfortunately, trying to be the “voice of reason” doesn’t work if a person’s mind is made up and won’t let the facts “confuse the issue.”
I used to be a HARD ASS DEATH PENALTY believer…but a friend and I debated the issue and though my mind was MADE UP I did listen to reason and I changed my mind….why? Because there have been DOZENS of INNOCENT people let out of prison and off death row by DNA evidence….and I would rather 1000 guilty go free than one innocent person be executed.
I AM for the “three strikes” laws where a career criminal is locked up for repeated felony convictions. In fact, I think it should be used more…it is a fact that 25% of all inmates right now (that’s about 500,000) are psychopaths *(score 30+ on PCL-R) and the AVERAGE score of all inmates is 22…so, yea, lock’em up and throw away the key…but at least if someone is in prison and is proven innocent they can be let out.
Recently in my state 3 men, who were kids when they were wrongly convicted of killing 3 little boys (West Memphis Three) they still got a raw deal but they have their LIVES.
So being willing to openly debate something is good, but just ARGUING to prove yourself “right” is not.
Oxy
You raise a good point. We may be certain that our logic is correct but another factor mitigates the outcome.
For instance, I am pro-death penalty. I believe that certain people, by their crimes, have ASKED to be put to death. BUT…. I know that Houston has a problem with lab tests. That people have been convicted on the basis of those lab tests and THE TESTS WERE WRONG.
Recently there was a man who was convicted of setting the fire that burned his children. And he got the death penalty. Yet… b/c of the lab tests, I believe he may have been wrongly convicted. Too late now, the sentence was carried out.
SO, while I believe in the death penalty, the fact that Houston has an unreliable lab means that NO ONE should be put to death until that problem is resolved. The police department has had SO much corruption that they have validated my opinion that there is NO SUCH THING AS JUSTICE. FYI Over 6000 rape kits not processed. Anyone see any reason to report a rape? I don’t.
20Years.
The more a person has a stake in a certain viewpoint, the more they are closed to any other view. As an attorney once said, Don’t confuse me with the facts’. Your friend didn’t want logic, facts, and truths. He wanted whatever it took to make him feel safe and accepted by someone whose opinion mattered more to him than yours. Sorry that happened to you. Sometimes we have friends that we share SOME beliefs but not all beliefs. Wait three months for cooler heads to prevail and I bet you’ll have a different conversation.
Best, Katy
Dear Katy,
well you can have a ‘friend’ on LF and all the while they are building a ‘file’ on you. Your life believes are then used against you aka ‘grey rock’ but I dont give sheeet!
My friend is no longer my friend because of my beliefs. Oh, Well, I don’t blame her. They where strange to her. I still love her and wish her the best,and you too. Thank you for you response.
Ana,
Thank you for the letter of support for my son’s parole protest.
I’m sorry you are leaving LF and sorry that you feel the need to do so.
LF is a public board and there are people here in all stages of healing (or not healing as the case may be) and people with some serious mental health issues as well. However, that said, there are a vast majority of LF bloggers who are just like “us” and are doing their best to heal from the devastation of interacting with a psychopath. Sometimes in the course of healing we are raw.
Right after I came to LF over 5 years ago, a person that I think now was probably a BPD “flamed” me and Aloha Traveler. I was very raw and very vulnerable to being attacked. I was so afraid I had hurt someone’s feelings, that I was going to leave LF. Donna took charge of the situation and “came to the rescue” of Aloha and me, and I stayed. I am EVER so glad that I did.
Through the years I have been “flamed” a few more times by various people who are long gone off LF either because they got so out of hand they were banned for attacking me and/or others, or because they just left of their own accord.
Letting people control you by making you leave LF is giving them the upper hand. I hope you and anyone else who feels that they have been “flamed” will reconsider and think about staying here…at least as a lurker if not participating or posting. If you have a problem with someone’s remarks and they are obviously out of line, use the “report abusive comment” link. If their comment isn’t to that level, then just ignore them.
Ana,
Obviously I can’t tell you what to do, but I’m grey rocked when I come here too, lol! But that’s okay, I still come and read the articles and if something really hits me with a post, occasionally, I’ll say something. I don’t give it that much weight. I hope you don’t either because regardless, this is a great place to learn and there are many excellent articles that can help you wherever you are in process. Just grey rock back. 🙂 It’s really not a big deal. Don’t hand your power over to others.
Joyce,
Every time I see something here written about psychopathic children, I feel compelled to post. Other than writing a recent blog post on my blog about my son, Adam (ugh, ironic!), in response to this mother’s post, this is the only place I have felt safe to share about him. I felt everything in what that mother was saying about her son.
I feel so much for you and your situation with Patrick. It’s hard for me to read through these, as I get knots in my stomach.
I think the MOST difficult thing about having a disordered child is screeching from the rooftops to ANYONE who would listen (once you’re aware that your kid is NOT NORMAL) and going UNHEARD.
When my eldest son was little, he began to have ear infections. Really NASTY ear infections. To make a long story short, he was put on antibiotics on and off over a course of YEARS, while I, of course, SCREECHED for a specialist and was IGNORED because someone with 12 years of education “knew” more than I did about what was going on with my son. FINALLY, someone heard me and we took him to a specialist for his infected and repeated issues with ruptured ear drums. They decided to put tubes in (duh), but they soon fell out about four months after the surgery. The infections started again. Screeching again. Specialist AGAIN. Come to find out my son had a birth defect that resulted in very SHORT eustachian tubes. I don’t have to explain to a nurse what that means. Unfortunately, there was scar tissue damage. A hearing test was done, he was 40% deaf in one ear and 60% in the other….
Sometimes, it pays to listen to the parent when they’re screeching.
And when you have a psychopathic child, it’s in everyone’s best interest to listen to the parent, rather than demonize and assume the PARENT has the issue and not the child, because as I learned from my son, he’s a GREAT bullshitter. A MASTER MANIPULATOR. For a long time, i didn’t want to see this. I enabled him, because I loved him and wanted to believe he wasn’t what I KNEW he was. I KNEW it. When I put him into drug treatment and begged for a psyche eval, what he got was a alcohol/drug eval, and skated and bullshitted everyone right through the program and GRADUATED. The day of graduation, he was GONE and back at it. Nearly a year clean and his behavior had not changed. In fact, what had changed was that he learned how to manipulate the SYSTEM better.
I saw many other kids in the drug program make genuine recoveries. It’s easy to see who they are. They work hard, on themselves and their recoveries. My son MANIPULATED all the way through his. He had them convinced I was the problem and not him. How could this be the assumption when I was SCREECHING about his BEHAVIOR? A list of what he was DOING? WTF???
Ironically, this was also where I knew I had to emotionally detach from him. That what I saw in what he was doing, is really who he is. It further isolates a parent when therapists, or drug court/addiction treatment will not listen. I let them know that the addiction part of it was just the tip of the iceberg. I think we all know that psychopathy can occur and often does, with co morbid conditions. Unfortunately, it’s the conditions MOST OBVIOUS that are treated, without the benefit of the most dangerous being looked at realistically. It’s frustrating for me, because my son has victims that he has parasitically lived off of and has wounded with many lies, distortions and manipulations and it means not a damned thing to him. THAT is very painful.
There is nothing anyone will do until he gets “back into the system” REALLY??? Well, what the hell does that mean? Before he loses it in a blinding rage and murders his girlfriend? Or kills someone in a drug deal gone bad? REALLY? Is that what it’s going to take?? THEN what the hell will they tell me? Do I get to say “I told you so!” while someone is lying in the morgue at my son’s hands?
Yep, essentially, that’s what it means. I pray to God that when my son inevitably and most assuredly winds up in the system, that it doesn’t involve the taking of the life of someone else.
I’m in a strange place with all of this now. My son turns eighteen here in a couple of weeks. He’s already scammed two families. I have talked with one of them. It’s very, VERY painful to see their pain at what Adam has done to them. And such a helpless feeling because i can’t FIX IT. And they know if they press charges because he duped them out of cash, well, that’s a go nowhere situation too.
Joyce you’re very lucky your son is in prison. I say that as one mom of a psychopath to another. I wish my son was as it would keep our community safe from him, even if his “crimes” (no proof of course, he’s become well versed in hiding), are “petty” at this point, he still HURTS people. I hope your efforts, and that of others, help keep him where he belongs. I understand exactly how you feel.
For our family, well, we go on, but there is always that thought in the back of our minds about when that cop might show up at our door. Will my son be dead? Or will someone else be?
I hate that he has victims. And I wish the justice system, or mental health professionals would listen to a parent that doesn’t carry a degree. If we’re aware, we KNOW our children. Many psychopaths are NEVER diagnosed. If we can’t assess it for ourselves, how the hell do we protect ourselves or others?
It’s hard not to see that blonde haired little boy in the back of my mind and in the depths of my heart. UGH, so painful.
Anyway, I hope things work out the way you hope they will.
lesson learned.
I hear your heartache. I have had my problems with my daughter. Such an adorable little girl. When they are little, we dream “will they be a doctor” or even “won’t she make beautiful grandbabies”. I currently have a boundry with my daughter that so far she has not crossed. Yet, I have had to change my dream for her, now I dream that she does not have any children, and that she does no one any lasting harm. It’s very isolating. Oxy was my model for how to bear the pain. Take care and know there are LF members who will not scapegoat you for the choices of your beloved son.
Best, Katy
Katy,
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Has your daughter been diagnosed with a mental health issue?
Boundaries, I’ve discovered, are critical in dealing with these our kids as adults. I understand what you’re saying about your daughter. I have a daughter who is borderline, but she has children. I worry for my grandchildren constantly. I’m very careful NOT to go places that set her off. It’s uncomfortable “walking on eggshells” around her, but to be able to love on them is worth the risk. So far so good, as I’ve laid out boundaries with her, calmly and firmly. So far so good. The trick is not to see her so much, but to be able to have a relationship with her to where I can see my grandchildren and love on them as much as possible.
It must be painful for you too, Katy, especially if you want grandchildren but know that it’s best that it not happen. And you would be RIGHT about that. It’s VERY difficult to walk a fine line with my daughter at times when she’s in one of her “moods”. She’s removed my grandchildren from me before when I have not “behaved” the way she wanted me too (example: I would not allow her to live with me, with the children, while she was planning a spontaneous escape to NY to be with a man she met online and told her now husband about it) and the PAIN of having your grandchildren used against you as weapons is beyond measure. I’m glad my grandchildren are here and I do love them, but if I had an either/or situation, I would have wished my daughter NOT bring children into the world. I feel for you.
It is very isolating at times. The “P” word isn’t politically correct. I’ve learned where it’s safe to talk about it and where it is not, although I did blog about it and that was a big step for me. It made it more real, I guess and it has helped some parents who have viewed it who are dealing with the same issue. Do you ever wonder how many there are? I often think more than we know.
My son is what he is. I accept it. I think part of that is just knowing I did everything I could possibly do to help him and to screech to professionals who simply would not listen. I’m glad I had him arrested and put into that treatment program. It was my last ditch effort to help him, and to try to be heard. I was able to let it go because I knew I had done all I could. It’s just knowing there are victims that is very painful to all of us.
Good to see you, Katy. Thanks for sharing about your daughter.
LL