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By January 15, 2015 91 Comments Read More →

No Remorse

I received a text:

I am driving to Middleburg to
sign paperwork. If u can
sign today we will be done
w all this stuff.

Want to celebrate?

My ex husband sent me this text on June 4, 2013. We’d been in court for most of seven years at that point, first for our divorce and then again when he filed for full custody of two of our three children and requested that I have no visitation. He only wanted the boys.

I was working at my computer when the text came in. I looked at the time on the corner of my screen—12:17pm. What, did he want to get a drink? Go out to lunch and blow off the rest of the afternoon together? What exactly did he have in mind?

I went back to working and then picked up my phone to read it again. Then again, one more time. He’d finally signed our custody settlement after two years of strained wishing that he would.

After almost seven years of filing motions against me in court.

And nine years before that of the kind of marriage that took me from being a confident woman in a medical program to a quiet female who made lunch for him and his lover in our home.

And one more year before that of a passionate courtship during which he convinced me he was the love of my life.

Even though I’d known him for years by the time that text came in, I was still stunned. I still couldn’t believe that he could really torture, batter, abuse, and maim other people—even our children—and through deluded thought patterns actually believe that we could still celebrate together when he agreed (on paper) to stop.

He believed it so whole-heartedly that he invited me out to celebrate.

Psychopaths are confusing. M. Scott Peck says that confusion is a sign of evil—that if you’re around someone who confuses you all the time, you should see it as a red flag.

And my ex confused me. Because if he didn’t feel guilty, then did he really do anything hurtful? Maybe he didn’t mean to. When I was around him, I came to question myself daily. Was I making him out to be worse than he was? Could he really be bad when he seemed so nice sometimes? When everyone liked him so much? He presented himself as a victim of everyone and everything, including me. So did that mean he was or is? How did we construct our separate realities? How could our perceptions be so incredibly different?

If he hit me but then happily brought me a glass of wine, ready to celebrate together with no remorse, was he faking his good mood and hiding the sense that he felt bad for what he did? Or not?

Psychopaths generally seem like very happy people.

That text, asking me to celebrate, offers a glimpse into his conscienceless way of being in the world. Even today, I still want him to know that he hurt me, and that he hurt our children. I want him to feel bad about some part of that.

But he never will.

Some people have no remorse.

 

~This post can also be found on hgbeverly.com.


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91 Comments on "No Remorse"

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This is EXACTLY what I needed to hear tonight. Thank you!

Let me understand clearly… he signed the papers? Your battle is over? If so, HUGE CONGRATS!!!

After our divorce was final, my ex sent me an email, “I always thought we’d reconcile” he wrote. “You were the best thing that ever happened in my life”.

I shook my head. This man defrauded me. He sold community assets and kept ALL the income from those assets for the years that I pursued divorce. I was PENNILESS and homeless except for credit card debt that I used to pay for a place to HIDE because I was traumatized after escaping being MURDERED on the road in front of the house that I built with him, with my own two hands. He smeared me so badly that even my daughter had only contempt for me.

So he felt sorry for himself that I divorced him?
I knew better. I deleted the email and poured myself a glass of champagne.

It is truly unbelievable how these individuals operate. I gave a man a second chance after he had bitten me. I never gave evidence at Court and believed that it was a moment of madness. None of my friends were impressed obviously!Then a year later (last October) he hit me around the head and I had to go to hospital. He apologised of course….BUT he also had an attitude of ‘it could have been far worse’!! I suppose I was supposed to be grateful! So when he came to my home 2 days ago and told me in anger that he should have cut my throat I knew just how dangerous he is. The lack of remorse is amazing…. he has no interest in understanding of the impact of his behaviour over the past 2 years. Now I have another Court case on Monday 2oth Jan-I didn’t want to give evidence to protect my mental health (especially when I know the lies he is going to tell to save his skin)…. but after his last comments I think I may just go into that witness box and send him on his way to a custodial sentence. Any love I had is gone now. And I know that it was always fake. But at least I got back the money he owed me…And I have no remorse!

Ifellforapsycho, PLEASE go to the police station asap and file a report that he threatened you! You will be able to hand over the report to the judge and get a restraining order!!!

You do not need to protect this evil guy….instead protect YOURSELF and his next victim by filing a report. This is my biggest regret when it comes to my ex I protected him and did not protect me at the time. BIG MISTAKE. Document everything legally!!

If you want support call your local abuse center ask them to go to the police station with you. PLEASE. In the USA you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor and they not only can give you guidance on getting a restraining order but they can also give you local domestic abuse numbers.

This guy is not going to stop threatening you unless you draw the line and let him know there are consequences to his actions. How do you do that? By getting a restraining order and by documenting everything in county official paperwork ie with the police & in the court house by taking the witness stand. You are strong you can do this!!.

Buy yourself a security system asap you can find them for under $100 at any large hardware store in the USA Lowes/Home depot care them and they are easily installed just with a screw driver and they only take batteries not hardwired.

Please keep us posted hon.

Ps Please follow the “No Contact Rule” with this guy…if you have children together then you follow the “low contact rule”. He is nothing but trouble if you keep him in your life.

Thank you Jan. I do not have children with him (thank God!). I know what he truly is now… what he could be without any provocation. A good male friend gave me a round of applause last night when I told him I had finally realised that the man I was seeing was dangerous! Everyone could see it but me! I know why I clung on so long with hope etc like many of us here…. and that is something I can work on. I would rather be on my own than repeat the last few years. All love is gone… and all pity.
I will keep you informed about Tuesday. I still don’t know what I’m doing but I have told relevant parties about his comments.
Thank you for your comments.

Ifellforapsycho, that’s great that you see exactly who he is…that is a huge step!

But please fill a restraining order against him and tell the judge monday that he threaten you…get it documented in court. This evil guy will keep coming around until you draw that thick line with the words stop.

Your original post sent the hair on the back up my neck straight up. He is very dangerous.

Wishing you all the best!!

Yes, congratulations.
I was just thinking today, as I was trying to breathe through yet another anxiety attack caused by who the hell knows what, I just want him to admit what he has done, and even if he’s not sorry I want him to recognize the suffering and pain he has caused our family. The attacks are brought on by the knowledge that he never will because he doesn’t care. Never did. For 33 years.
I am fixated on making him realize how damaging his actions have been to me, how painful it is and how I’ve suffered for it. Then I remember that would be his pay off, the icing on the cake and how happy it would make him. That serves to only make me more angry.
So here’s my mantra I repeat all day long…he doesn’t care, he doesn’t love, the marriage wasn’t real, and I never mattered.

teepee1124
He will never give you the validation you seek from him.

He has reasons not to:
Because it would mean you “won:.
Because he doesn’t care.
Because you don’t matter to HIM (but you matter to others and most important, you need to matter to YOU.)
Because he has NO conscience.
Because he’s incapable of feeling remorse.
Because your pain means HE “WINS”.
etc etc etc.

While it’s a true statement, You need a new mantra. The one you have is beating you down, it’s not empowering you at all. It’s very emotionally unhealthy.

Are you still with this monster? I hope not. That would be very sad. I realized that I had only X number of days on earth and that I CHOOSE to live them in joy, which means of course, not with my ex or anyone like him. I wish you well gone from him.

Hi….Please change your mantra teepee124.

It doesn’t sound healthy to me. I’m no expert but I think your focus should be on you NOT HIM and what he didn’t do. Psychopaths are very very clever at making us feel they are the ‘love of our lives’…that’s what they do in order to get what they want. You MATTERED very much to this man…even in his sick mind….BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY you matter much much more to your friends, family and loved ones than this man will ever understand.

Please focus on the love you still have around you. Just accept (painful though it is) that you were tricked by a clever damaged individual. All you did was love the wrong man. That can hurt…but it says everything about your capacity for healthy love. These people create a false image of themselves so that they can tap into our vulnerability. That is what they do. They are ‘sick’ human beings.

I think this is an opportunity for you to heal and find healthy love.

And the words you wrote that actually made me want to respond were… “..and I never mattered..”. You mattered a great deal to this man…but not in a way that would ever make you happy. Concentrate on the healthy minded people in your life (of all ages) and remind yourself what healthy unconditional love is.

I am sorry if I sound bossy or insensitive but I really want you to understand that you are NOT the problem… you matter…and you need to let go of the idea of this man showing any genuine acknowledgement of your pain… he never will…. but he is capable of lying well enough to make you think he has. Be careful.

I repeated a similar mantra to myself for awhile when I was prone to falling for my ex psychopath’s hoovering me back in. It helped me keep in mind the truth about how he feels about me and not to believe his lies meant to deceive me so he could exploit me.

It was useful to me in getting myself to think clearly, to believe the truth about his evil motives in a deep and permanent level, and ultimately to move on.

My experience has been that it goes much deeper than no remorse. They want to hear you speak about your pain, for their pleasure brought on by their actions… schadenfreude.

I agree Canuck! I told my ex-psycho only 3 days ago that he had caused me great pain over the past 2 years – physically and mentally….I looked deep into his eyes and saw absolutely NOTHING! That is when I truly understood the person I had been dealing with and it was the end of the relationship. He left…I m still alive!

thanks Canuck.
a single word that distills my ex’s entire reason for living… schadenfreude.

Yes NotWhatHeSaidofMe.

Some soul groups are sad indeed. Schadenfreude is the best describer of the essence of the individual who is responsible for the most grief in my life. Hypocrisy comes in a close second.

I am very far from perfect, but I do not hurt others intentionally. The pain of others hurts me and thus I believe for the longest time I waited for, expected remorse to finally surface from those who are not of our soul group. Was a real eye opener that we are not all the same very deep inside.

Cancuck
I hadn’t read in your post about soul groups until this reply. So if I understand what you are saying, you believe people have soul groups? Because I sure do not believe that sociopaths have any soul group. They are missing a connection to themselves, they don’t connect to their emotional health, which is part of what I would call a soul. In that, I so agree with you, we are of the human physio, but deep inside, we are not the same.

My ex husband views his entire existence as adversarial. EVERYTHING is adversarial and he MUST “WIN”. That’s the drive that renders him evil.

Yes true NotWhatHeSaidofMe.

Sorry I may be rambling because it is difficult to put these thoughts down so that they do not sound too crazy, my apologies. Here goes….

My stepmother I am able to dismiss as being of no consequence, hence soulless. She was of the soul group my father preferred for a long term partner.

About my deceased father, I often wonder what his lessons and journey have been like on the other side. He was as soulless as my still living mother and stepmother on this earth. I believe father may be feeling something akin to remorse now.

According to personal research into near death experiences -on the other side thoughts are spontaneously known to all, which makes lies impossible. The deceitful seek the dark to hide with shame from the light of knowledge. Life reviews are, according to those who have come back, answering to the consciousness of the universe. During life reviews all that the victims felt are now felt by the perpetrators. Imagine that may be where the justice really takes place and soulless individuals feel along the same lines as we have, for the very first time. The first tweaking of the soul.

The one message all have brought back is that love is the answer -GOD IS LOVE. And are not those who are soulless deficient in love? This is Lovefraud.

Everyone has an opinion and I may be wrong but this thinking has kept me relatively sane. It is difficult to imagine one’s parent evaporating into nothing just because of their spiritual deficiencies here. I believe they are learning about love from God.

Am interested in your thoughts NotWhatHeSaidofMe

Congratulations on your new found FREEDOM!!!!

Sociopaths want to screw with their victims mind…they want their victims to think over and over about their statement…it’s part of their sick & twisted mindset to have fun.

DO NOT ever let a sociopath RENT SPACE in your mind….kick them out by not thinking about them or their mind game statement!! This text is a perfect example of their sick & twisted mindset..he dragged on the divorce and yet know he acts all happy and proud it’s over = sick man.

For your child custody issues that he stirs the pot up again out of boredom check out Onemomsbattle. com and their facebook page…lots of support on that fb pg.

Hello there, I always felt confused and could not understand the warm loving person that contrasted with the cold, cruel violent person. I really needed to be reminded as now that I’ve left he still confuses me. Thankfully he’s been mostly silent for a few months now after I put up a boundary. Only he has been financially abusing me and using the legal process for his power games and after he sent me an email about having contact with our child, I wrote a letter to him explaining our financial situation and if he could help his child with school costs that would be great. He does have contact with his child, he can call whenever he wants…he chooses not to, didn’t even call on Christmas day to wish him a Merry Christmas. I never answer the phone it’s between the two of them. I don’t want to hurt my child in anyway so I leave the decision up to him whether he wants to speak with his father or not. Anyway after the letter no response, then he sends some money a week later. I don’t know what to make of it! Does he have a conscience am I wrong about him?? I do not want him to have access to his child because he is violent, has drug alcohol issues and I want my son to be safe. It’s an awful situation to be in, this is a man who tried to kill me and I still find I am second guessing myself all the time. He’s the nicest dangerous man you’ll ever meet.

Nevermore77
I totally agree about these individuals being the nicest and dangerous at the same time. Totally confusing. I choose not to recall his ‘good’ qualities because his nasty violent side was the real person…. the rest of the time when he was ‘nice” he was only doing so to get whatever it was he wanted. But in the blink of an eye he would show his true colours. It must have been exhausting pretending to be something he is/was not… I thought he was the ‘love of my life’ (like many of us on lovefraud)… but he was only pretending to be compatible in order to get my attention…. which he did. But when I realised just how fake he really had been (he even admitted it) all the ‘niceness’ suddenly meant nothing. And all I was left with is a man who is dangerous! No ‘romantic love’ is worth risking my life for.

Ifellforapsycho

I have to close that gap between remembering his good qualities and the bad. The bad was so awful and terrorising. I too thought he was the love of my life…my soul mate. On our first date he declared he was going to marry me! I thought how romantic, and I realise lately that I so wanted to believe that romantic love existed, so I fell for what I now know is a HUGE red flag. He even tried to convince me when I left that our love was different to everyone else, that no one could have the passion that we had. Now some 14 years later I am devastated. I won’t say a mess as I have learned so much about what I was in and do my best to move forward in a positive way but now the parameters have changed in wondering how I negotiate with him on child access and legal stuff (which he is totally unreasonable and using as a game to WIN) His true colours are really on show for the most part but then he will appear to have some conscience though I suspect it is just for what HE WANTS!
When I first read about these people I thought he didn’t fit the picture because our marriage had been so long but and so many people thought he was such a wonderful loving man that I had married. I wish I had a dollar for everytime someone told me how lucky I was and I actually believed it! Now I look at all the things people didn’t see, the violence etc… he would pretend to support me under this loving guise and still use that same guise to pull me down. I never knew what was going on and it made the violence even harder to understand. So for a long time I thought it was me! He would help all the neighbours all the time, while I would be silent through shame and he was as bold as brass. They thought he was great! Some still find it hard to believe my story of what happened. He is insidious really. A chameleon to the core.

My ex psychopath is very similar to what you describe. He is very skilled at impression management.

Yes AnnettePK
My ex was exceptionally socially gifted. And he protected his “image” above all. I think that’s the real reason he was done with me, because once his mask was off and I knew what he really was, he couldn’t risk me revealing him to others. The ridiculous thing is, for the ones with morals, they already KNEW he was disordered.

If a person chooses to do harmful things as a pattern of behavior over time, that is who he is and what he is capable of. When he says and does things that seem nice, he is doing them in order to deceive you into believing he is not harmful so he can exploit you for something he wants to get from you. If he cared about your well being, he would never do harmful things. People do make mistakes. One hurtful word or action could be a mistake, a second could be a misunderstanding, but three hurtful words and actions are a pattern of behavior that will continue.

Consider if he enhances your life, if you feel better around him, if he supports your success and spiritual growth. Consider his life as a whole: Have his past relationships been successful? Does he function well at his work and employment? Does he have good friends of good character? Does he get along with his family? No one is perfect, but look for patterns overall.

Consider that if someone tried to kill you, he does not have your best interest at heart, he is harmful to you, he is capable of murder, and it makes sense to protect yourself by not having any contact with him. It is unlikely that someone who tries to kill anyone (other than self defense) does not and will not have a positive relationship with anyone.

Think of the serial killer psychopaths who get caught and everyone who knew them casually says what nice, charming, kind people they appeared to be.

You are so right AnnettePK, he has no really good friends, nor does he have good character and he has a history of violence and abuse. Not that I knew that when I met him…there was one story which was only used to elicit sympathy from me and it worked. His family even portrayed him as a loving person and still do even though they know. It’s all brushed aside as someone else’s fault. That all adds to the confusion, it’s like you have to prove yourself. Not that I even try and I know what he is and he will do it again to someone else. Like you say it’s a pattern of behaviour and if he keeps getting away with it, it will perpetuate. It’s terrible that you can’t even warn people…they would not believe.

It’s true that new victims don’t believe warnings. What can help is for the survivor to let the new victim know that she would be happy to answer any questions about the spath if there is anything the new victim would ever like to know. That way when the abuse starts and the lies surface, the new victim will feel comfortable contacting the survivor when she will believe and will benefit from the information.

So Sorry jenna23, it’s awful but it’s normal.

Did you read the link that tells of the stages of grief? It doesn’t fix anything but it does affirm that you are progressing, even if sometimes it doesn’t feel so nice.
https://www.psychopathfree.com/content.php?138-Stages-of-Grief-from-a-Psychopathic-Relationship

yep jenna23
My ex was a bigot about practically everyone. He’d point out a guy walking along the road and ask me how old I thought he was. Turned out, he was younger but life had aged him. My ex loved pointing out the guys with bald heads, gained weight, looked old. And ridiculed those of other ethnicity.

When I first was in relationship with my ex, I thought his bigotry was b/c of ignorance so I refused to let him speak that way in my house. And I invited my friends around b/c I thought if he had personal experience with them, he’d see they were fun and gifted and of integrity, people to admire. At first my ex was so nice and got them to be HIS friends, then he had them cut me out, and then he got “too busy” to be their friend. That’s how that went. Getting people that I cared about to turn on me and abuse me, that was just play fun for my ex.

Yes. My ex IS a hater, but a specific kind. A sociopathic hater.

Congratulations HGBeverly. Really, to be stronger than his “psychopathy” is the very way out of the nightmare.

Sometimes, now that I am also stronger than “his ways” I don’t even qualify them anymore as psychopathic. I think that even to use that word is looking at him from the victim perspective and not from a detached objectivity. Of course, the term can be helpful to understand what we mean but I think that the term is even to big for them. I think now, that he is simply a very egoistic person who lives in a constant carpediem. Not more than that. And also that his egoistic ways are very childish, many children are bullies for the fun of it, just like him. This way of being explains that he can perfectly consider to have a drink with you, without even considering a bit what happened before, simply because he feels like having a drink with someone that day. Actually, I don’t think these people have a bad opinion of their victims, as someone says in another comment, he might even consider that the people they’ve abused brought a lot to their lives. So, why not going back to them to get more of it? They only care about themselves, that is the whole summary.

More than by psychopathy I think these abusers are to blame for selfish recklessness, which of course will never lead to remorse. To have some remorse you have to care a little, and they only care about their instant gratification all the time.

I think that once you really know how they are letting them get out of your life is easy. That is why I think that premature contact cut is not a good idea. You have to be able to recognize how they are to be able to truly celebrate they are gone. But then, you truly celebrate.

Congrats again,
Cath

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-who-emotionally-abuse-children-3303555

Dear Catherine,

If it were not psycopathy they would not be getting thrown in jail. Sorry but it feels like blaming the victim. For some there really is no escape. Others are never the same and that is a crime.

The fact that they are thrown in jail doesn’t prove they are a psychopath. And lots of these people don’t commit criminal felonies.

The only thing to “blame” the victim is of having had some hope in a minimum niceness and fairness of a human being, which I don’t think is nothing anybody should be blamed for, don’t you think so?

We are never the same when we live something dramatic, but we can be better and stronger. I think it is important for all who have been involved with these people to recognize their own responsibility, not in what happened (obviously) but in their recovery from it.

No I, and my siblings, can not be ‘better and stronger’. We were not born ‘worse or weak’.

There is a breaking point and those who have broken another’s spirit have committed slow murder.

Just because society took a long time to acknowledge the ‘unseen’ psychological violence does not make it any less a crime than physically laying ones hands on another with intent to harm.

Canuck, I can relate. Sadly, even when at an earlier stage post ex-spath, when I thought I was healing, now nearly 3 years later, I realize there is no true getting over it. I go on with my life away from him physically, and emotionally… but that 5 years with him, the confusion, the intense love, the more intense hurt and the most intense physical, emotional and financial damage I could never imagine…its a haunting that will never leave. With each passing year, I get older, not a bad thing, just a reality… but guess what? Each injury that I thought had “healed” turns up once more as bursitis, arthritis or some other diagnosis, for which the doctor asks if something happened to that area of my body… well, yes. Pretty much every area was assaulted… So, even though I am out of the mayhem, it never leaves completely. AT this point I just try to live as gentle a life as possible, and live in the moment as much as I can, and knock myself out at night so that I can sleep without the nightmares, or flashbacks to good and bad times. I dive into my children and my new dog and my significant other as a diversion, and my life purpose. Peace to you and all of us here.

I understand about not focusing on their horribleness all the time; it does feel better not to dwell on it. My ex psychopath would like to be thought of as just childish and incapable of good behavior. He was dangerous and harmed people deliberately. I discerned that he knew right from wrong and chose his actions in full knowledge of the harm he caused. He just wanted what he wanted when he wanted it, and harming others is not a problem for him.

When to get away and cease contact is a balance. It’s good to be sure that one is making the right decision; but it’s also good not to prolong the harm and increase the psychological, emotional, spiritual, financial, and intellectual damage they cause their targets/victims, who are innocent.

I agree with not prolonging the enormous damage they can cause. I eventually over 2 years-had to ask myself “How much evidence do I need”? But it was the fact that I didn’t remember the nasty, damaging behaviour and personality that he had… that I spent too much time remembering and enjoying the way we were when things were going well. This was usually when he hadn’t been drinking or smoking weed…. those times were great and reinforced the idea that he was my soul mate for life. But the nasty always showed up eventually when he was tired of making the effort to pretend to be something he knew well he was not. Anyway I have decided that I do not need further evidence about his personality. I know he is violent and I know he has the capacity to kill me. There are’t enough good times to balance out that kind of nasty! No more evidence required!

There’s a lot of truth in your post, Catherine. Truly, who cares if they are a diagnosed socio, mal narc, etc. One little epiphany I had was that they are the emotional equivalent of a 3 yr old. They want what they want when they want it and do not think of the consequences.

I agree. They aren’t worthy of the time it takes to armchair diagnose and trying to do so can be dangerous as it brings in too many “maybes” and questions, as per HG’s letter today. Too much confusion. Better to look, as you do, at the simple fact that you are dealing with a child and someone who just doesn’t have the capability to see anything but their own desires and needs. For whatever the reason. It doesn’t matter.

You’ve expressed it very well. I actually think that to try to armchair diagnose them reflects mostly that we still have hope in them. Because there are many people we can cross who act in ways we find despicable and we don’t take as much effort to understand why they are behaving in a nasty way.

Agree to a point, Catherine. I think we take time to analyze because someone has touched our hearts, minds, souls, etc., then behaved in a bizarre or thoughtless way towards us. If we meet someone who’s despicable but hasn’t really gotten under our skin, unless one is into analyzing for the sake of it or for educational purpose, why bother?
IMO only, someone has to have an effect upon us in more than just a superficial way for most people to take the time to analyze them. I Googled because I was jerked around, thereby totally confused by this lack of humanity that only appeared to be a man. I suppose some folks do analyze hoping to find out that the screwy BF or husband is fixable.

I always thought my path acted within an age range of 3-13 years old. Like you say….I want it and I want it NOW!!! He took great pleasure in telling me how he always got his own way. I think there was a part of me that saw that as a challenge. I also think that I always knew he was the wrong man. So that part of the puzzle is about me… and that’s what I’m working on. I certainly don’t need his help!

I had a similar experience Ifell…
Never knew what kind of childish drivel was going to spew from this pathetic worm. It was so truly bizarre, that I just passed it off as stress or that he felt close enough to me to “be himself.” He had a responsible job and a family, so how was it possible for him to say things like, “I did NAWT!” (actually in the voice and stance of a tantruming child!!) when I brought up some weird thing he had done. By that time, however, I had a pretty good idea there was something very wrong with him.

Just as you said, I knew this moron was totally wrong for me, I didn’t like him most of the time, as he was “always right,” and would mumble under his breath that that was so if you disagreed with him. Not sure if he always got his way or not. “Mine” was a whiner, full of regrets he said and way “too forgiving.” I suppose I saw him as a challenge as well, but had he gotten too close to me, I would have run the other way. I found him at once abhorrent and irresistible.

We have similar problems….attracted to men that can only bring misery. Hope you are getting ahead of that.

I do believe that Catherine’s conclusion does help take some of the hurtful sting and confusion out of our devastating relationships with psychopaths. Instead it finds our only culpability lies in ever questioning that they are purely evil, selfish egotists.

HGbeverly, of all the articles and comments I’ve read here, yours hits the nail on the head, finally, at least for me. I’ve felt something that I haven’t been able to verbalize even to myself that is embodied in your post.

“if you’re around someone who confuses you all the time, you should see it as a red flag.”

YES! This as a symptom of a serious and dangerous issue of the confuser, not a weakness in the confusee.

“And my ex confused me. Because *if he didn’t feel guilty, then did he really do anything hurtful?* Maybe he didn’t mean to. When I was around him, I came to question myself daily. Was I making him out to be worse than he was? Could he really be bad when he seemed so nice sometimes? When everyone liked him so much? He presented himself as a victim of everyone and everything, including me. So did that mean he was or is? How did we construct our separate realities? How could our perceptions be so incredibly different?”

HG, this paragraph really describes exactly how I felt during my experience with a sociopath. It plagues me today, 3 yrs later. I, too, was confused, definitely questioned myself and made excuse after excuse for his obviously inconsistent, often throwaway attitude towards me. He always acted and looked cool as a cucumber, controlled, definitely had that need to be right which I found obnoxious, but I made excuses for that as well.

Like you, I questioned *myself* even though he was the one acting completely off-the-wall, and yes, confusing me daily. Deadly behavior. So dangerous.

You want your ex to feel badly about hurting you and your children. You want him to know that he hurt you but he never will. Thankfully you have come to understand and hopefully accept that. For me, that has been the hardest part. The fact that there was no remorse and never will be. It is as impossible for some of us to grasp as it is for a path to feel it. I’ve always said they choose well. They have radar for people who question themselves.

Thankfully you won the custody battle after *7* years. My God. And he wanted to go out and celebrate. Nothing illustrates how sick they are better than that. No remorse as you said. Never.

Best to you, HG and thanks so much for sharing your story. I’m certain many have gained invaluable insights from it as I have today.

Thank you for sharing your story. It’s the story similar to so many in this community of support. I hope that for all of you, you have come out of the horror of living with a sociopath, with an abundance of gratitude in the release from these sick people. Often we talk about us being captured, blindsided, abused etc. but when we have the blessing of being able to leave it all behind us, we have come out strong with wisdom, insight, clarity and gratitude. If we had never lived this, we would never be able to share and understand each other and be able to help others. And the reality is that we’re not leaving it in this moment, thank God. For me, I lived through what victim advocates with domestic violence call “the 11th hour”…fleeing our home in the middle of the night. The day the divorce papers were signed my ex also invited me over to celebrate andsaid that he had hoped we could become friends and be involved in each others life still. This was after an addendum was put in the divorce by me, that there was to absolutely be NO contact with me or any of my family or extended family..you just have to shake your head, and I actually laughed and just had to shake my head. It’s taken me a while to drive around town and not be looking over my shoulder.it was this community they gave me the assurance that he would move on very quickly and I would have nothing to worry about. So thank you everyone who contributes here.

Catherine there are degrees of physical abuse. From black eyes to crippling to coma to death.

The same applies to emotional abuse. From being naughty and selfish to the extreme. Because the emotional abuse is not apparent, the way acid thrown in the face is, it is easy to blame the victim for not concentrating on ‘recovery’.

My therapist has told me that it is amazing how much I have persevered, considering the abuse. I have been in recovery from the time I realized it was not me that needed fixing. That emotional acid (which leaves no physical scars) was constant and the disability, although invisible, is irreversible.

Empirical evidence indicates that betrayal and sadism can be more harmful physically and emotionally than a straight forward punch in the face, as bad as physical abuse is.

Thank you AnnettePK!

Canuck, before you posted a link of children being abused by their parents. My comments are always from the view of an adult who dealt with one this extremely selfish people but always being an adult, so someone who was always capable of quitting at anytime the relationship. I am not sure if we are talking from the same point of view.

That is the thing Catherine. Evil does not relinquish domination and control over their spawns just because we have reached the age of reason. Especially because we have reached the reason. Exactly like the women who are stalked by strangers, parents who have told their offspring that they have given life and just as easily will take it away, ramp up the punishment when the controlled possession attempts to make the break. There is no line to draw between childhood and becoming an adult.

It is so exasperating trying to explain to those who carry notions of characteristics all ‘parents’ would have. For example, I told father kidnapping and murdering my Old English Sheepdog, out of my backyard when I was in my twenty’s while I was at work, was a crime and he would go to jail. He told me because he is my father nobody would believe me. He was right. The humane society and police thoight I was crazy. Can you imagine how that felt and the lesson? Nobody believes when it is parents abusing you physically and emotionally when you are an adult but if it is a boyfriend you are heard. As long as they are alive there is no escape and afterwards the abuse is by proxy because of the lifetime of gas lighting to all other relations, isolation and gaslighting. I have never been paid for sex yet cousins, whom I had not seen for decades, after my father’s funeral assumed I was a prostitute. A parent would never lie right, that is why his lies were believed. He made a fabulous uncle but as a parent he destroyed me.

You are right, we were not speaking of the same thing. As salvation 2012 stated, the abuse manifests itself in your body, becomes who you are physically -impossible to walk away from.

I don’t agree with that point of view. We do grow up and there is a point when we are able to think by ourselves and we are also able to become independent and leave our parent’s home. I think that after that point we do have responsibility towards our own lives. This doesn’t mean that will never make mistakes or that very challenging and difficult circumstances will never appear, but we do have a responsibility on how we solve them that we didn’t have when being children. Like with sociopaths, when can choose to cut contact. It is always in our hands to say « It was enough » , we should never forget that to set the limits it is our responsibility as adults; the same with parents or with any other abusive person who enters our lives. I am very fond of that proverb that says: “The first time you cheat on me it is your fault, the second time, it is my fault”. But these are my views, and that is how I choose to rule my life. We can all choose what we do prefer to think and do.

Then you have never had evil for a parent Catherine.

I have a friend with abusive parents who left her parent’s home when she was economically independent and never looked back. We can all sever any bonds that do us no good.

Sorry I should have said crippled instead of disability. We are emotionally crippled the same way physically breaking arms and legs (that were never set right) would cripple a human being. Sure the bones would mend, yet not being set right, one would never walk the same. Does that make one stronger and better, compensating when they walk?

Taking my last name and putting it before that of my ex who is a sociopath/psychopath to the max (what a talent to be both!) is a homophone for “remorse.” That alone should have been a red flag. The lying, manipulation, threats and all that BH Beverly describes were there, too.
Several years now of crawling my way back to civilization after my involvement with this person, I live near a town called Middleburg in VA. So I’m a little wigged that quite possibly there’s another one of these remorse-less creatures roaming around horse country.
But here’s my point of logging in and commenting. I am learning, and writing, about the new science around neurology, nutrition, healing. It’s fascinating and consoling what the brain can do, if given hope. The Amen Clinic is one good resource in NoVA for understanding the plasticity of the brain. My go-to guru, Mooji, is another source for me; he says, your thoughts are not you, they may not even be real. I worry that too much of “the secret” and “christian science” belief in the non-reality of the physical world can lead into a s’path kind of behavior, but there’s too much to write here on this topic, and that comment alone might have been too provocative!
I simply want to say here on Love Fraud that I will not allow that chaotic, non-sensical, debilitating experience consume my thoughts and infiltrate the love I want to experience in this world going forward. Sort of like Scarlett O’Hara clutching at the dirt here …

Hi 4Years,

I’m in VA too and my ex psychopath is kind of up your way….

I’m glad you’ve found something that is helping you.

Would that your come back to him would have been ” I sure do and will! But not with you!”

The price for them of no remorse is big because they don’t quit the MO. (No pain, no gain.) They do wither and wear out earlier than they should. And their constant companion is a shapeless sadness that they can never get a handle on.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-01-childhood-adversity-psychiatric-disorders-cellular.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=ctgr-item&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter

Abuse by a parent, in my opinion, is the worst. I am not sure if given enough time my first husband would have been abusive because my father destroyed any chance of a relationship between us. We were a young couple therefore unable to recognize it for what it was, hence too inexperienced to escape his manipulation. That in itself is a long story. I do know that my choices in life partners, after my first, have not been the healthiest because my boundaries have been all over the place due to the parental abuse.

I have binge sported black eyes to being left for dead due to poor choices in life partners. These events are not even a blip on the emotional radar in comparison to the blood bonded parental abuse. Even the abuse by my stepmother, who entered my life later, I feel blase about. Was a few years into therapy before being left for dead by my ex was brought up.

Think the reason it is so much easier to dismiss abuse at the hands of strangers is because parental abuse creates biological changes on the cellular level as evidenced by the study in the link above.

This comment clarifies many things of your other comments. Thanks.

The article you linked refers to cells aging quicker, which is something that happens at any age due to high levels of stress as it is already known. I reproduce: “These findings indicate that childhood stress and some psychiatric disorders are linked to important cellular changes that may represent advanced cellular aging.”

Abuse by a parent is the worse because the child is not mature enough to put the abuse in perspective and, above all, he/she can not escape.

IMO, what it is important for an adult who was abused as a child is to consciously draw a line after his/her past and identify abusive behavior he/she should not tolerate ever again and to assign the responsibility of his abuse only to the parent or parents who abuse him/her. If the line is never drawn, the people who are to blame are not mentally judged, and the unacceptable behaviors are not identified and set clear boundaries, it is very likely that the person will let the past leak into their future too.

I hope you are better and specially never believe that your state is irreversible, because it is not. You do owe your life, you have all the control of what you choose to do every single day, don’t forget that.

The line could only be drawn after my father’s funeral seven years ago. Not through any action of mine the abuse has ‘leaked’ into the present because gas lighting toxicity does not stop after the prepertrator is gone. It becomes abuse by proxy.

I gotta wonder if my ex-boyfriend is going through tax-foreclosure, or if he is in fear of foreclosure. I can’t figure out if that is what is going on by looking at the court records. But, looking at the court house records in our county, he is behind in taxes for 3 years (and too soon to be behind in taxes for 2014, cause it’s not July 31 2015 yet. So he is not behind by four years in property taxes, NOT YET.

If that is what is going on that would make sense why he sent me a letter of apology recently, and then why he called me on phone.

I haven’t heard from him for over 4 years. Not since he harassed me into calling the police on him. And, he turned it around on me.

I have noticed that he always has a Plan B. A parasitic plan to have someone in line to pay for his living expenses.

I could not find anything on him. It looks like he is still landowner of his property. Of course he never gets caught in his spiderweb, everyone else gets caught in his spiderweb.

I think I may be in a relationship with a sociopath ….I have children with him…can someone tell me where I can post my story and questions please?

Worried,

You can start at “True Lovefraud Stories” on the red bar at the top and then “Tell Your Story” or you can post on the Getting back on track….” thread which is pretty active.

There is a lot of information on this site that can help you. Sadly, if you are concerned that he may be a sociopath he probably is.

Worried momma,

I am in an amazing group on facebook! Friend me there and I’ll add you. It is so supportive and informative! My name there is Tabitha Mathes. Look for me and let me know it’s you. Much love!

Jeannie, the best thing you can do is remain NO CONTACT and try not to keep track of him! You may get sucked back into his manipulation if you expose yourself to him or his life!

I am a sociopath and I have been victim to a female psychopath myself so I can actually have empathy with other victims here. Yes sociopaths have compassion and can take pity, it is the psychopath that does not. That lady abused me emotionally and bled me dry for money. Every day with her was an emotional Rollercoaster either she was the sweetest girlfriend ever or she abused me most severely. After I broke it off she started to extort me for money. That said I do understand and fear the species psychopath myself.

However like I pointed out I am a sociopath and very very functional. What really brought me here is you saying elsewhere on your site that people like me need to be found out and put under medical / psychiatric supervision. Who the Fxxk do you think you are? And you want to force medication into me to make me docile? I take that as a threat to my well-being. “Control freaks” such as you, site author, fear what they can not control. Well let me add to that. I can switch my empathy off and do things the “normal” won’t even contemplate. If I felt it was the right thing to do I could walk into a room with a bucket of gasoline and splash it over people and light them up.. and then go have lunch.feeling absolutely fine. No not arbitrary innocent people but lets assume a room full of child molestors. You will notice I don’t need a gun. I don’t have any inhibition to taking life aside from my judgement who deserves to live and who must die. I alone am the judge of that. I don’t foresee myself doing that any time soon however I do have the option every minute of my life.

So yes, I am out there and not at all willing to submit to your drugs and therapy. So, how does it feel not to be in control? How does it feel to be walking in a minefield full of people like me and my ex? We hide well and in plain sight and if ever only the dumbest of our kind is ever caught and controlled.

I have received reports about the above comment. I am letting it stand, because I think it is an accurate and important look into the mindset of a sociopath.

Actually if you exchange the world “sociopath” and “psychopath” for the name of any evil fiction antagonist it sounds quite funny. No wonder I’ve never liked 3 years old kids…

I completely agree with you Donna-know your enemy. I didn’t like the tone of this arrogant, egotistical, ‘potentially’ violent man… but ultimately I loved the fact that he started his comment explaining how he was NOT a psychopath but then went on to say

“I can switch my empathy off and do things the “normal” won’t even contemplate. If I felt it was the right thing to do I could walk into a room with a bucket of gasoline and splash it over people and light them up.. and then go have lunch.feeling absolutely fine. No not arbitrary innocent people but lets assume a room full of child molesters. You will notice I don’t need a gun. I don’t have any inhibition to taking life aside from my judgement who deserves to live and who must die. I alone am the judge of that. I don’t foresee myself doing that any time soon however I do have the option every minute of my life”.

Now I am no expert….but if someone I knew said that to me (even in jest) I would be worried…I might even call the police! I like the fact this man had a chance to express himself on this site . Well done Donna-brave but totally correct in my mind. Of course we are all at different degrees of recovery and pain and the awful fall-out of a socio/psycho… but hearing from all of you through this site…. and then hearing the rantings of ‘our collective’ enemy (if you know what I mean) gives me so much hope and gladness…. because at the end of the day the only reason these people are ‘hiding in full sight’ is because for whatever reason as good people we wanted to believe their lies- once we saw/see clearly (even through pain and loss) they are no longer hiding in plain sight! I gained a deep personal pleasure in ‘outing’ my psycho.

Perhaps the comment could be moved to another place on the blog with a warning? For some it’s more triggering because it shows up in a comment section where the reader doesn’t expect it. It reminded me of the awful feelings I had when my ex spath’s mask began to slip. You thought everything’s ok, and then it gets all creepy and evil.

It reads like the frightening nonsensical stuff my ex spath spoke, word salad meant to frighten and shock, that really doesn’t say anything.

Mybe it’s the space that I’m in at the moment? I went to court on Tuesday-I didn’t give evidence-and the case was dropped. I didn’t give evidence for my own well-being and it’s the best thing I’ve done for myself in the 2 (brief) years with a psycho. He was stuck in a limbo of non-control for the 3 months it took to come to court.

The fact this post came up as a comment was alarming in some ways…. but the sheer arrogance is amazing!! I want it give strength to us all…. here we have in ‘writing’ an example of a psychopath (love the fact he would prefer to be called sociopath and then goes all psycho with the petrol story!!).

Exposure is what they are NOT about-yet this one couldn’t resist!! Exposing my ex’s psycho (didn’t need much with scars etc as evidence) was the worst thing for him! Knowing all my friends actively hated him bothered him greatly. Therein lay my personal power. It’s just where I’m at right now-early confident days.

I think the post is worth reading, as chilling as it is, it’s a lesson on how they ‘think’ and a great example of word salad – what point is the writer making?
Perhaps an introductory warning would be helpful for the recovering victim reader.

A spath would be bothered by people not liking him – he can’t manipulate them as easily.

This may be an actionable threat, based on my recent experience with police and courts, and getting a RO against my ex. He only implicitly and indirectly threatened me. I had always thought that did not constitute a threat. But as law enforcement becomes more savvy about narcissistic psychopaths announcing their intentions in manifestos and on internet boards and social networks, perception of when a threat is a threat is changing.

In my situation, it fell into an expanded definition of domestic violence, for which I am very thankful. FYI, even though in the latest, worst threat he said something that also contradicted the threateningness of it, the police told me I should warn some people also named. So they still saw it as a threat.

Like the above, he fantasized about violent actions and ways for people to die. It was to be a backhanded or non-specific way of threatening, in which nonetheless, the threat was obvious. Like that above, as I read it. So, for all who care, the era of making people afraid by stopping just short of the line, while simultaneously crossing it, are coming to an end.

Glad to hear those news. Actually it is pretty obvious that exaltation of personal capacity to exert violence towards others is a way of telling the other person what they would to with them too, so a type of threat. This person, who is not a 3 years old child, definitely needs medication, not to be “docile” (as he says) but to be an emotional functional person and a person that can coexist in a pacific society.

Yes, it is a threat. Also includes profanity – the ‘f’ word, whether he writes out all the letters or not the reader knows what word he is using. In my state it is called ‘curse and abuse’ and it is illegal.

In my state, showing someone a pocket knife can be a threat.

Thank you for pointing out the threat aspect of this post. I realize that I missed that obvious aspect of it, and that people I know who are not as likely as I am to become victimized by a spath would have recognized it.

I am less comfortable having this post remain in the thread without a warning and interpretation. It would be good if this wonderful and helpful site would remain no contact from spaths, and that it would refuse to enable a spath with a platform.

I find it interesting that sociopath6 is differentiating between himself (a mere “sociopath”) and his abuser (a full blown “psychopath”). A pity play followed by threats to the community? What is his game?

Perhaps he is reading all the comments about his post and enjoying the attention, enjoying that we’re spending time thinking about his post, commenting on his post, and being triggered and bothered by the contents of his post.

Funny, my N/P ex-H sent me an email on his birthday, asking where his “happy birthday” was. We were divorced for 2 years, and it wasn’t pretty. I had pretty much stopped talking to him. Of course, I was not wishing him a happy birthday. Probably more I was thinking I wish he was never born (except for having our kids).

How deluded was he to expect a celebration?! But of course he didn’t. It was just more screwing with me.

Escapefor1
I’m not surprised he called to remind you of your obligation. They do have that mindset that we ALWAYS “owe” them. yep. more screwing with you. And maybe even a type of warning because you are on his radar.

Catherine my favorite is do not judge till you have walked in another’s shoes.

Here I go again -on the defensive because evil was a parent. I ran away from ‘home’ for the first time at the age of ten. Married in Seattle at a very young age because had found people who I believe cared for me. Evil stalks. From Ontario my father came and destroyed my husband because his family was naive to evil. When it is a parent nobody calls it stalking or abuse. The cowards way of hiding evil.

I don’t judge. I just give my point of view, as much as I don’t judge sociopaths, I haven’t walked in their shoes either. But I am convinced about everybody’s capability to choose what they do and their responsibility in their choices.

When it is a parent there are also people who call it stalking and abuse, but it depends on those people’s views. They are responsible of their views too and also of being cowards, if it is what they are. We can only choose how we are and how we choose to act, and others do the same. In my opinion, setting our boundaries and looking for people who are align with our values it is one of the most important things in life.

Here is a new one….
Putting others on the defensive makes one offensive.

That one is not for me, as a huge defender of freedom of speech I prefer the one of “I am responsible of what I say, not on how you take it”. In any case, it was by far not my intention to put you on the defensive – in case you are talking about our debate – I am sharing my views, you might agree as well as disagree with them. It is normal that people rule their life differently according to their different views.

You really have know idea of the extent of control the ‘parent’ title gives a human being over another Catherine. Absolutely in the dark because you have never experienced a parent stalker.

It might be helpful to look into the concept of “boundaries.” The parent’s poor choice to try to control an adult child can’t be changed; but there may be things the victim can do to protect herself and minimize harm.
It is a hurtful situation and no one should be betrayed by one’s own parents, who are supposed to love, protect and provide for their children. Most parents would give their life for their children. It is heartbreaking when parents harm a child in any way.

I think we rather end the debate here. It is clear that we see it differently and we have expressed both points of view. I believe in full freedom of choice for everybody and you believe that a person can exert a control over an adult, I don’t. I have never experienced a parent stalker (at least I don’t consider it as such) but, as I’ve mentioned, I have a friend who had abusive parents. I say “had” because she doesn’t consider them to be relatives anymore. She considers herself an orphan and that’s how she has chosen to live her life.

Cheers,

I have also had many friends who, but would never consider using HAVING KNOWN PEOPLE WHO as giving the authority to speak as if I actually experienced! I have Asian friends for example and do not use that as an authority on Asian culture. There are so many nuisances involved than if one has not lived, walked in another’s shoes, one need not go Ann Rand.

Therefore yes please may we end this discussion. Thank You.

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