Phillip Garrido is technically “a father.” He allegedly kidnapped Jaycee Dugard when she was 11, sexually assaulted her, so that she subsequently gave birth to two children. Some have had difficulty attaching the term “father” to Garrido. One news report I saw said, “He allegedly “sired” two children.” These children (both girls), are reportedly 11 and 14. We do not know if Garrido also sexually assaulted the children.
This week I would like to discuss a difficult subject and ask some difficult questions. Because I am using the case of Phillip Garrido to guide this discussion, we are considering fatherhood. However, I believe the same points can be raised regarding motherhood.
Here are the questions:
At what point is a father not a father? At what point does a child not need both parents? At what point does a father’s treatment of a mother justify the termination of his parental rights? Should criminal behavior be considered in custody/visitation cases? At what point is a father so mentally ill that children should not see him? Should a child’s wish to see his/her father play a role in these decisions?
I’ll say up front that in the extreme case of Phillip Garrido few if any one will argue that a court should have the girls brought to visit him in prison. For most people the question of whether Garrido also sexually assaulted the girls would be a deciding factor. For the sake of this discussion we will assume that the question of sexual assault cannot be proven one way or another and that the girls won’t talk about that. We are going to make that assumption because in the vast majority of cases I know of that is the situation.
At what point is a father not a father?
State laws say that a rapist does not have parental rights. O.K. that makes sense for stranger rapes, but what if the rape occurred within the context of a relationship? What if a woman is raped, feels humiated then decides to continue a relationship with the “attacker” so although a rape occurred on Tuesday she consented on Friday and we don’t know which act resulted in conception.
What if there is coercion within the relationship. The man says, “Unless you take care of me sexually, I’ll divorce you and get custody of __________ (an existing child).” Out of fear the woman consents to sex sort of and gets pregnant again. In this case coercion is psychological as opposed to physical.
Now if you think that coerced sex is rape. What about covert coercion? I mean conning? What about the woman conned into the relationship? In this case her beliefs about the man and the nature of their relationship that caused her to consent were all based on lies. Had she known the truth, she would never have agreed to the relationship or to sex. What then?
At what point does the father’s treatment of the mother justify the termination of his parental rights?
In many cases the family courts have tried to separate the relationships of the family believing that a man’s treatment of his partner has nothing to do with his relationship with his children. It appears that even Phillip Garrido provided for these children in that they were supported financially. He also claims he nurtured and loved them.
If you say that kidnap and rape of the mother justifies termination of parental rights. I can tell you of a case where the woman initially consented to the relationship. The man who is a psychopathic con artist, eventually held her prisoner. She gave birth during that time and is now fighting to have the man’s parental rights terminated. He was arrested and is in prison for assaulting a sibling, the woman’s other child, but he is still “a father”- according to at least one judge.
Does a woman held prisoner have to constantly try to escape in order to “prove” she was not a “willing victim”? The victim in Garrido’s case did not apparently attempt escape. Are we to say she voluntarily lived with Garrido?
At what point is a father so mentally ill that children should not see him?
It is clear that in addition to being sexually deviant, and personality disordered, Garrido is also psychotic (delusional and hallucinating). Should children be protected from parents with psychosis? If so why? People with cluster B personality disorders have difficulty with interpersonal relationships and when the disorder is severe are not capable of placing another person’s welfare above their own. What then?
Should criminal behavior be considered in parental rights cases?
There are many children who are ordered to visit parents in prison. Why are these girls an exception? (Provided that they were not assaulted).
Should a child’s wish to see his/her father play a role in these decisions?
Garrido’s victim’s family members are quoted in the news as saying that the situation has been difficult for the girls since “He was their father.” Children have a natural tendency to seek to be with those who have raised them. Why do we use this tendency against them? Why do we think this is always a good thing? Shouldn’t concerned healthy adults make a decision based on reason, instead of a primitive drive children have?
My answers
We all have to stop denying that the above questions exist, put our heads together and come up with a just system for dealing with these questions. In the United States, I am afraid this should be a Federal Issue. It will be very difficult for us to fight to change the laws in every state separately. To say that a child always needs both parents is clearly absurd, as Garrido’s case shows us. If we look at each aspect of Garrido’s case we see there are some clear guidelines that can be developed to deal with situations where:
One parent harms the other.
One parent terrorizes, coerces and/or imprisons the other.
One parent is a criminal.
One parent is mentally ill.
Although cases where a child has two disordered parents are common (and most tragic), cases where there is one relatively healthy parent should be the focus of change. I assert this because by forcing a parent to deal with a disordered other parent, we condemn that person to suffer during what should be the happiest most productive years of their lives. Let’s face it, 18 years is a long time. Also since the psychiatric disorders are partly genetic, these children need the best, least stressful upbringing the least disordered parent can give them.
Please use the comments section to weigh in on your answers and post your own story with regard to these questions.
Tilly,
I so wish I could meet you in person. You and I would set up a covert, revenge for hire company. All the victims of sociopaths would come to us for dirty deeds done dirt cheap!
LOL!
But meanwhile…
WTF? what do you mean she wants you to paint a canvas as yourself as a sociopath? What exactly did she tell you to paint? This is very interesting news! Does everyone else have to do this? or did she single you out?
OK, I have an idea. paint your self portrait of when you were an infant, wearing only a diaper. All angelic and sweet, charming to a fault – wrapped in a boa constrictor and reaching for forbidden fruit! You will win every prize.
The infantile emotion is the root of a psychopath and if she doesn’t get it tell her she needs to bone up on what a psychopath is.
Tilly, tell your teacher that I said that she’s clearly never dealt with a psychopath. Only the innocent come up with psychobabble crap like that which might apply when you’re dealing with legitimate human beings with souls but definitely not to psychopaths. There is no “them” in there for you to find, as you know, there’s only animal cunning and their latest appetite.
TILLY, you know I love you, and this is am “I love you” BOINK!!!!
THAT IS NOT WHAT DONNA’S ARTICLE WAS SAYING!!! You took the whole thing out of context and are focusing on one part OUT OF CONTEXT. the article was NOT blaming you for “attracting” the Ps because you are at fault.
What she WAS saying was that if we are not HEALTHY emotionally we will attract the VULTURES that psychopaths are. Just lilke a sick cow lying down on her broken leg will soon have a bunch of vultures around her because they sense she is not healthy and they move in for the KILL>
Psychopaths are the same darn way. When we are DOWN, negative, etc. they hone in on that and sense we are weak and vulnerable. That’s when they attack. Does NOT mean we caused it, or that we are to blame. So, if we are reeling from the wounds from one psychopath, another smells the blood and comes hunting, just like a shark or a lion.
Now you get your panties out of your crack! Love, Oxy
Now you go stand in the corner and write 500 times, “I will not get so cranky over something I read”
((((Tilly))))
Tilly:
How many weeks to go with the psychopath teacher & comrades? 4-5 weeks by my calculations.
The end is near. Do NOT go rogue at this late stage. You have made it this far.
Just ride it out, get your grades, and get the heck out of there.
Oxy is right Tilly,
when they smell blood they go crazy and attack. As soon as I came running to my parents’ home when I left my xP, my P-brother and P-sister and P-BIL ATTACKED. I went NC with the sis and her husband but they wouldn’t stop trying. Then my P-bro attacked me physically, scratched HIMSELF, and called the police with a Domestic Violence report and they took me to jail. My parents cried, but they didn’t protect me, they didn’t kick him out and they didn’t get me a lawyer. They are phony P’s. BUT NOW I KNOW, IT WAS MY FAULT FOR SHOWING EMOTION AROUND A P!! I showed fear and anger and hurt over my break up with my exP. It made the P-siblings want more and they kept trying until I went into BORING MODE. It calms them down. I’M NOT KIDDING, TILLY. They are like animals! if you are really, really, calm, they also instinctively calm down. But you have to go ice cold and gray as a rock. Show NOTHING.
Then, with that as our cover, we can start our revenge for hire business.
Maybe that’s why they say, “revenge is a dish best served cold.” LOL.
BTW,
what is really interesting is that my parents instinctively told me not to tell my P-brother what was happening. They KNEW that it was dangerous. They understand, instinctively, what he is. They keep him in a little room off of the laundry area and he rarely comes out. Well, there really was no way to keep from telling him because my eXP kept coming around looking for me. But I shouldn’t have bared my soul to him. I knew that he was a narcissist, but I didn’t have a complete understanding of what that means. I thought it meant that he had emotional problems but could also rationalize and feel. He cannot and does not. He smelled blood and wanted more. The overwhelming emotions of pain that I showed made his evil nature rear it’s ugly head. Now that I am a gray rock, he stays in his room again.
This is such an ugly way to live.
Sorry Oxy:
BUT :
WE DON”T HAVE TO BE DOWN AND VULNERABLE AND WEAK TO ATTRACT A PSYCHOPATH!!!
As a matter of fact we attract them more when we apear popular and confident and pretty and stong! A challenge! A handbag to win! A ticket to the social does around town!
Point being, whilst the cow with the broken leg is easier, the cow leading the herd has more contacts and is just as an attractive bait for a psychopath.
Its only after dramatic life changing traumas that any person can expect to study and try to work out what the red flags are so it doesn’t happen again.
FOR ME (and only for me)Its nothing to do with “my investment” I have in being a victim or whatever, for me I believe that has NOTHING to do with it!!! anything that moves and has a pulse is bait for a psychopayth!!!!
And to say different adds to MY trauma of trying to recover.
P.S.
I have the right to stay cranky if it is helping me deal with my psychopathic teacher and stand up FINALLY and SAY what I believe!! Because I can’t say any of that in my psychopath teachers class.
My painting is the size of a wall. Oil on canvas. I got the idea from that poor woman who came onto Lovefraud (that I still pray for ), who’s psychopath partner committed suicide, in front of her, as trhe final insult to torture her forever. She was spilling her heart out when the psychopath “pianoman or one of them” came on and stuck the knife straight into her heart. She left immediately without a trace.
Well I have a wallsized portrait of MY FACE and me with a big SMILE on my face, holding the GUN to my head. But the gun is not AT my head. THE GUN IS SLIGHTLY TILTED UPWARDS because I am only pointing the gun at my head to torture the people around me who love me. So the art teacher gets to call my painting her “inner psychopath” and is happy. And behind her backI get to call my painting, “The psychopath-this will hurt you, more than me”.
Rosa:
Sorry i am so mad at the moment. But this is the only way I can survive this whole nightmare… 6 weeks and counting, (we have a holiday in between, hence the extra time). xoxo
Skylar:
Rosa and oxy know me well enough to know that I am only “going rogue” here on Lf because it is seeping out of me because i have the psychopath teacher Monday Tuesday and Thursday for four hours straight, each time. She writes down and comments when I walk in or go out of the room. She filmed us (with no notice) presenting our POWERPOINT presentation last week. She said, “I am filming this to go home and make a satire out of it to send you all up in a home movie”.
I said” Oh, sorry but I can’t be filmed today as i don’t have my make up on.” She said, Oh thats ok Tilly, then you fail.”
So of course i let her film me.
FOUR GIRLS HAVE TOLD ME SECRETLY THAT THEY ARE LEAVING THE COURSE IF SHE IS TEACHING NEXT YEAR.
She seduces the men. And terrorises the women.
Their aint nuthin funny or pretty about it, because i have her for four hours today.
Rosa and Oxy WOULD BELIEVE the shocking things she has done this semester to try and destroy some of us. Especially me. Two women have left because of her. When they told the other teachers they CLOSED RANKS AROUND HER and they girls went and the psychopath IS STILL HERE OF COURSE!!
She is particularly mad at me because i have made an arrangement to have another teacher MARK 3/4 of my work. I am the only one who has been able to manipulate this. It came as a direct result of Rosa’s DRY SOCKET idea .
But I STILL HAVE TO ATTEND HER CLASSES AND STAY IN THEM FOR THE NEXT WEEKS
off I go now to enjoy my marvelous class with the p. You can hear a pin drop in her class for four hours.
fun, fun, fun.
Tilly/”Eminem” 🙂
You go, girl!!!! Vent all you want!!!
Better to get it all out here, as opposed to the art class or with family members, right???
“Anything that moves and has a pulse is bait for a psychopath.”
So true. Can we get that copyrighted and made into bumper stickers?
“She is particularly mad at me because I have made an arrangement for another teacher to MARK 3/4 of my work. I am the only one who has been able to manipulate this.”
TILLY!!!! YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!
Melody23:
Sorry Melody23, I have been dealing with this university teacher who is a level 10 incredibly intelligent psychopath. Rosa and Oxy and all the guys here on lovefraud are the only reason I am still in the class. They have been helping me get thu it for ages as I have all but left quite a few times. They have taught me how to stay in the class and get what I need (a degree). I think God has put this teacher in my path while I have the support of LoveFraud as my final ultimate test. There is no way I could withstand it without the love and support and priceless information they have given me. I have come here so often beaten and Oxy yells “you can do it! get up you big mouthed old broad!!” and Rosa tells me the best joke I have ever heard and then gives me specific instructions how to get “dry socket” syndrome so I can get someone else to mark my work. And of course Kathleen gave me the ten commandment laws to deal with psychopaths when you have to. My biggest one that Kathleen gave me that I have had to chant is the one that she said, “chant: psychopaths will continue to try to get an emotional hold over you”
This is what I am about to have happen again for four hours.
My degree is worth it, because now I have someone else marking the majority of my work. But the condition is I attend all the classes and put up with humiliation, degradation,abuse, etc.
TOWANDA!