By | January 11, 2012 148 Comments

Please Forgive me for the topic! – Compassion for The Sociopath?

Editor’s note: The following article refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.

How can this be?  Is it right, or possible to have compassion for a sociopath?  Why should I consider this topic after all the pain that the sociopath has caused me?  For some, the very idea may make you angry.  If so, my hope is that you read more”¦

In the beginning, I looked at my father as a spiritual vampire with no soul.  A person that lived off of others, consuming their money, emotions, kindness and love, then moving on to another.  In my dad’s case, he even took their very lives.  He deserved to die, I thought.  I was OK with the idea of him being condemned to death and being sent to death row.  Why not?  He deserves it, right?

When I look at a sociopath what do I see?

The sociopath is someone that cannot experience real love, only mimics it.  They treat children and relationships like possessions.  My father treated me like he would his favorite car, as long as I was good.  He killed people because he thought it would make him feel better.  This last statement led me to an important question of my own.

How bad could a person possibly feel inside to believe that killing another person would make them feel better, and what does that say about what value they place on their own life? 

Exactly what am I seeing when I look at this picture?  Another human being (yes they are human beings) that lives in darkness with no clue as to what life really offers, or a monster?  A little bit of both I suppose, but the suffering human existence is something that I had not recognized before, because of the hurt that my dad had caused me.

I am trying not to use so many questions in this post, but I am finding it impossible, because this issue raises so many of them.  What happens to a person that causes them to live in darkness with no awareness of what love really is?  Image a father not being able to understand the love of a child, but to view them as an expendable possession.

During the recovery process, I became friends with a beautiful spiritual woman who also happens to be a licensed clinical social worker with a PhD. I was not a client of hers, but she became one of my most important teachers just the same. One morning, while demonstrating a wonderful technique that she uses to help people heal past emotional deficits, she treated me to a miraculous gift that corrected years of misunderstanding about my father. Since it is something that must be experienced to be truly understood I will keep my description of it as brief as possible. Words just simply will not do justice to this type of deep work.

My friend helped me to settle into a calm and comfortable state and then she began asking me some questions about my family. She asked me to select items in the room that might represent them, and then she asked me to place them where I felt most comfortable.

First, we started with my father, I selected an object that was hard, rough and had no qualities that resembled a person. I then selected items that represented my mother and me as a small child—items that were soft, had character and appeared to be very inviting, almost cuddly. I placed the item for my father across the room from me, and I set my mother and me close by my side. As I sat with this scene a while and took it all in, I noticed how far away I had placed the cold symbol of my father. It was on the other side of the room, as far from me as I could place it.

She then asked me if I could begin to imagine my father as a very small child, playing in the room in front of me. She asked me what that might look like. I imagined my father as a small little boy about two years old, wandering around the room and playing. I felt a since of warmth come over me. The tension left my body and I could feel my heart begin to soften. She asked me then to pick out an object that represented this image, and I found something soft and loveable that resembled the image I had chosen for me and my mom.

Finally, my friend asked me to create the perfect family for my father and to place them together somewhere in the room. I took the object that was my mother, found another soft object, and placed them right next to me on the couch with my father between the two, but touching. As I looked at this image, she asked me to think about what his life might have been like had he been given everything that he needed. I imagined that for a while, and I felt a sense of deep compassion come over me.

I must say that I have no idea what was lacking in my father’s childhood that made him what he became, but I do know this. I can no longer think of my father without the image of the little boy in that room, a little boy who somewhere along the line didn’t get what he needed either. The emotional deficiency regarding my father is no longer there because it has been replaced with compassion and understanding. The process of forgiveness has been completed for me.

This is a very short space to cover this topic, but this experience along with learning the process of letting go, has allowed me to look at all of my brothers and sisters with compassion.  I do not know why some suffer more than others, but I cannot imagine a darker existence that one without God, love and fellowship.

I am not sure why we want to help people that are suffering up to a certain point, then decide they crossed some imaginary line that now justifies killing them?

There is no way to convince someone that has been deeply hurt by a sociopath to have compassion for them, but I found my own freedom in this very change in perspective.  For me, it brought a sense of understanding that carries over into all of my relationships.  I don’t judge people so much anymore.  When I see someone acting out or being cruel, I now wonder “what happened to that person to make them feel that way”.  (This does not mean I trust them or interact with them, but I do often pray for them.  I find great peace (for myself) in praying for others)

I understand that many people believe that the sociopath is victim to a hopeless human condition.   There may be no solution today, but I no longer believe in such a thing as a “hopeless human condition”.  Until 1930 alcoholism was considered a hopeless human condition and a Miracle changed everything.  They locked alcoholics in insane asylums until a miraculous solution was given to the world that now affects millions of lives.

Personally, I have witnessed too many Miracles to considering anything hopeless.  I once thought my life’s situation was hopeless and I was wrong.  Thank God!  I no longer “think” that I am qualified to determine these things and I am much happier this way.  A funny thing happens when each situation is approached with hope (not ignorance, but hope).  Miracles Happen.

When I approach life with compassion, compassion is exactly what I find!  To give IS the same as to receive.

I will continue to write weekly here, but for those that are interested and willing to go more deeply into the process of letting go, please join A Course In Forgiving  (begins January 19, 2012).  I did not come here to promote The Course, but to offer it to those that feel moved to do something more about the pain in their lives. 

There is no fee of (optional donation of up to $25.00) for the six week online course.  This Course is designed to guide participants through the Step by Step Spiritual Process of Letting Go with weekly lessons, readings and exercises that are intended to open the pathway to healing and Peace.

If interested, please visit and click the link in the left hand column titled “Six Week Course Online”.  For those that participate, I will be available by phone and email to share experience in addition to this weekly blog on Lovefraud.


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Ox Drover

Travis, this is a wonderful lesson in compassion. The spiritual work that I think we must ALL do in order to heal from the devastation of associating with psychopaths (whether they are murderers or “just” abusive spouses doesn’t make any difference).

I think I understand what your post is about, the compassion for anyone who can’t feel love, who has given their souls over to evil….yes, at one time they were children just like we were children, and some where along the line a mixture of genetics and environment and choice made them decide to do and be and think like they do today. THAT IS A SAD THING.

I can imagine my Psychopathic sperm donor as a child, I’ve heard lots of stories about him as a child from the woman who loved him the best, his nanny. Unfortunately, his mother was a psychopath herself, but the children had a loving woman who my grandfather hired before my sperm donor was born, and raised the 4 children through Highschool for the ones who stayed and went to school, but my Sperm donor left permanently at age 11.

My own son Patrick, was probably the most adorable child anyone could want, bright, fun, seemingly loving–adored by peers and teachers and other parents, until puberty when he “morphed” into what he is now. I still love that little boy, that child I had that is no longer with me except in my mind. But really, none of us can KEEP THOSE BABIES…at BEST they grow into adult friends, but we can never keep them as babies except in our minds.

I do have “compassion’ for psychopaths for lacking love and empathy and not having all the good feelings that are POSSIBLE for us to feel.

The Bible talks about a “reprobate mind” and just my interpretation is that is speaking about a psychopath who has given themselves into the choices for evil to the point that their minds have gone “over the hump” and they are not able to turn around now and “go back” and have empathy and love for others or maybe even for themselves. Yea, it is SAD when a person gives themselves over to EVIL, or ALCOHOL or DRUGS to the point that there is no “going back” and undoing the damage done either physically or spiritually.

By feeling compassion for these people, compassion for the EMPTY life they lead—what kind of life except EMPTY could you lead without love for others or love for self? LOVE is what makes life worth living. It is what connects us to the rest of the human race it is what connects us to God (in whatever form we believe in that Higher Power).

Thanks for posting on LoveFraud, Travis. Your deep wisdom and caring, your peace and compassion, and your ability to share it with us is very helpful to me. THANKS AGAIN!


Dear Travis,

I have been reading your articles and have always come away with something very positive. I too believe that to move forward in our recovery we have to learn the art of forgiveness.

I agree that a sociopath is a “human being that lives in darkness with no clue as to what life really offers” and I do believe they have a “suffering human existence”. Even though my sociopath daughter has caused our whole family and particularly her own young son an enormous amount of pain, I can still consider and actually do feel compassion for her. I view her as an empty shell of a human that could have been SO MUCH MORE and that is so sad.

This is where my understanding of this particular blog of your ends.

When first finding myself on Lovefraud and Aftermath, I was a mother filled with so much guilt. I, after all, was the one that raised this human that emits great amounts of evil, who takes pleasure in hurting innocent victims, that neglected and abused her own child. What did I do wrong? What didn’t I do? Why did I not recognize this sooner? What should I have done differently? My husband and I showered our only little girl, the one we waited years and years for and finally adopted, with love, affection, attention, affirmation and material things. We gave her life structure, spiritual guidance, and strong moral values. We were good examples. We set boundaries, rules and non abusive punishments. We sought professional help for her, over and over and over again.

People that I met here on Lovefraud and on Aftermath helped me to understand and accept that IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. This was huge for me and I started to slowly heal. Now your post comes along and asks the questions – “What happens to a person that causes them to live in darkness with no awareness of what love really is?” You state that your friend asked you to think about “what his life might have been like had he been given everything that he needed” “I must say that I have no idea what was lacking in my father’s childhood that made him what he became” “a little boy who somewhere along the line didn’t get what he needed either” You go on to say that you don’t judge people so much anymore. “when I see someone acting out or being cruel, I now wonder ” what happened to that person to make them feel that way” ”

Travis, your post has just placed the responsibility, the blame for someone becoming a sociopath directly back on to NUTURING. The guilt that I have tried so hard to overcome has just been placed squarely back on my shoulders. What didn’t I GIVE to that child that she needed?

You see Travis, this is very hard for me because she like to tell everyone that she is the way she is BECAUSE she came from a dsyfunctional, abusive family. That is her lie, her claim. This hurts.


I have enjoyed reading you. Your spiritual healing is very powerful.

I do have a concern with your post above in that too many people landing here for the first time will see your words and especially the word hope… Unfortunately – I know because for a long time that was me – I believed in the power of spiritual healing and had hope for the man I loved so deeply – a man who was a cipher.

Travis I am 20 years sober through the program of AA and yes it is a miraculous program but the deal is ONLY THE PERSON WHO WANTS SOBRIETY MORE THAN TO RELIEVE THE PAIN OF REALITY WITH A CHEMICAL can get and stay sober. The person who gets clean from drugs or alcohol at some point can see the damage they are doing to themselves. The vast majority of people in recovery recover out of self interest.

Self interest is key. The person who believes the benefits of behaving badly offer more reward than behaving charitably, lovingly, kindly is not going to ever choose in a consistent enough manner to “turn over a new leaf” to make a difference. In fact, one of the writers here – it may have been Steve – posted a topic regarding P/S/N’s who suffer what I would term “Shadow Syndrome” – that is actually the title of a book. The theory is that just like there is a bell curve with the middle being “normal” there is a section of that curve where people are between full blown P/S/N status and normal and those people are truthfully the most dangerous as they cause the same damage or more – particularly in long term relations – because they have the ability to plausibly express remorse – yet it is never deep enough to change the underlying behaviors. This is what keeps loving, gentle people tied to those people that are damaging to one’s psyche and soul, and even sometimes physically damaging.

As Oxy says above about her son, he changed at puberty. The mother of the man I loved also told me how he was as a child, the sweetest most fun and I know his family well – the environment in which this man was raised did not lack for anything that could account for his behavior. So I can look back and see what a delightful adorable boy he was and wish that he had flowered into a man with the same qualities as promised by his pre-puberty being but the truth is I have ZERO empathy – ZERO ability to make an excuse for him as it would to me be blaming others for failing him in some way and I can tell from the older brother and the younger sister – he was loved, he had food, clothing, shelter and an extended family that is generous and loving, aunts, uncles – people who embraced me….And hoped I would be what made him turn around (which they did not tell me until I was already so attached and brainwashed I could not detach for some time)….

There is a book by Lundy Bancroft, “Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry Controlling Men”… Mr. Bancroft is a pioneer in working with abusive men – which he began out of a hope and effort to help battered women. What he writes about and found was that these men do not change. They might get better at hiding what they do – ie: it becomes more psychological than physical – but they do not change. The reason for this is they see no benefit in changing. When a man (or woman) has a batterer mentality they know through threat of force they can have another provide their food, wash their clothes, basically wait on them hand and foot and they do not have to do anything but give a look or throw a fist through a wall or slam a door or make threats of violence to someone else and that will keep their “slave” in line. My ex talked early in our relationship about “training me” and I laughed thinking it was a joke. It was no joke. Eventually he had me trained – it was my subconscious trying to keep me safe so I became compliant and trying to soothe him and keep him happy so he would show me the love he had in the beginning – aka “love bombing”…

Anyway – I hope you understand what I am saying. I have compassion for him – FROM A DISTANCE – but truthfully I have far more compassion for his mother who he has terrorized, the other women he has terrorized – and the loss to society as a whole that a brilliant funny man is evil.

I am not sure there is a cure for this kind of evil Travis.
I’m pretty sure there is not.


MILO – I see we posted very close together the same thoughts.

Travis – everyone – here was my moment of awakening.
Because so many people ask what woke you up?

I believed that like my recovery from alcoholism – which by the way I was born with – I blacked out the first time I drank and that is considered middle to late stages of alcoholism – and I had no idea it was abnormal…. I never even told anyone as I assumed it was the same for all…

Anyway – I was asked to go to a battered women’s class and I struggled to attend and finally I went. During that time Chris Brown (the music star) committed a terrible physical attack on his girlfriend Rihanna (another star) … I do not follow them but this was in the media. I decided to read up on what happened and the police report was posted on line. When I read the report and saw the words he had yelled at her it was like a punch to the gut. I knew – I KNEW – there is nothing I can do about this and this is not about me!

I am not being treated badly due to some failing in me!

I have to tell you that deep down inside I think I have believed always that if someone is hurtful to me then it must be because of something I have done and I need to change.
I was taught that by my parents unfortunately. I was taught to accept abuse although I am sure they never imagined it.

Anyway – that moment of clarity has helped me immensely in so many areas of my life. I tolerate less and less nonsense over time. It has freed me from any sense of guilt or responsibility. Because you see I felt responsible to help, to fix, to save.

Even Christ and His followers knew that when their audience did not have hearts and ears open to His message that they should shake the dust from their shoes and move on to people who were hungry for the message of Christ’s love for us.

romanticfool no more

While a agree with you on many things, especially miracles, some spaths simply don’t fit that mold. Some have absolutely zero in their backgrounds to cause them to be disfunctional, such as my X who nearly murdered me. Believe me, I would love to think something changed him, but it’s simply not true.

Spaths target those who are compassionate. We want to believe that they are “curable”, that in some way we can help them, even if just by praying. They are emotional chameleons, changing constantly to fit what we want to see in them. I think of them sort of human ecoli, a life threatening virus that may lie quiet while it adapts to a new antibiotic, but returns even stronger. So while I don’t hate X, I can’t say I have any compassion for him either. He is what he is. He’s perfectly happy about himself and sees himself a good person making the world a better place to live in just by his existence. Short of divine intervention he will stay that way.

Breckgirl, we could be clones, except that I got the codependence without, thank heavens, the alcoholism. While spaths show a lot of similarities to each other, so do the people they prey upon. I can’t change my past, but I can darn well change MY behaviors that allowed one abusive relationship after another and like the disciples, shake the dust off my sandals!

the sisterhood

Thank you Travis. I found your article to be so similar to my sister’s experience in dealing with our biological father. She was going through light therapy as a way to heal from her experiences with him.

Just a quick overview. Our father was a true Sociopath/Psychopath. He raped my sister repeatedly, beat our mother horrible and ended up brutilly killing his girlfriend. I was kidnapped by him at gunpoint when I was a baby, but that is the only experience I had with him. I went into foster care at 13 months.

My sister had an epiphany during one of her sessions. She was asked to go back to a particular experience that involved our father. She said that when she went there, she saw the Arc Angel Gabriel. He led her to the bedroom where the rapes had happened and there she saw our father sitting on the bed with many, many angels around him. This really upset my sister and she became angry and asked Gabriel why in the world would a purely evil man deserve such love and compassion from the angels. Gabriel’s response to my sister was : Everyone deserves the love and grace of God. Even your father.

This really began the REAL healing for my sister. She was able to see him in a different, more compassionate light. Did this excuse anything my father did to her? Absolutely not. She has learned to discern the two from the truly lost, wounded human being from the abusive, evil father. Does she still wrestle with the pain at times? Yes she does. She is human and forgiveness and comapssion are a forever process.

No one in my father’s family understands why he turned out to be the way he was. By all accounts, he came from a loving family. I do not know. But I do get what you were saying about imagining him as a little boy and not getting what he needed. I think that kind of imagining was helpful for you and would be helpful for me and I never took it as something everyone should do to heal. Everyones circumstance is different.

Forgive me for interpreting your words, but I took away from your post that no matter what caused these people to be sociopathic, it is important to understand and have comapssion in general for they are also children of God deserving of his love and grace.

Thank you for your contributions.


IMHO . . there is a reason . . people don’t forgive being repeatedly abused. It is for protection. It is natural to be angry and NOT forgive. Through centuries of evolution, our instincts tell us NOT to forgive. I go with nature.

donna dixon

I don’t believe it is just up bringing. My ex was raised by the same parents his sibling had and they are just 2 years apart.

I do think it is extremely sad that a human lacks the ability to FEEL but I know for a fact that long after my divorce from the “amazing husband” I thought I had that he threw me under the bus 12 years BEFORE any of his gambling or womanizing became knowledge to me. I found out he had thrown me under the bus from his own father’s mouth. So my ex made a conscious decision to USE me while we were married and he was PRETENDING to LOVE for many years.

Do I feel sorry for him? NO!!!!


It was my compassion for the wounded child I saw in my husband that kept me trapped in years of abuse. For myself, it is not compassion that I needed in my relationship with an spath, it was Understanding. With understanding I concluded there was no relationship, never would be. And the only thing that remained was his access to abuse me.

As with my pedophile father, I turned over punishment to God at the same time I severed my relationship. I reclaimed personal responsibility for myself and I set the same standard on spaths in my life, that THEY NOT excused for their wrongs, they are responsible for who they CHOOSE to be.

Ox Drover

Travis and everyone who posted above, I just got back in the house from being gone all day, and I read the other responses to Travis’s article. I can see BOTH sides of the issue, and as Milo said, it isn’t about ONLY what they “didn’t get” to make them fully functioning humans with a conscience, or that the parents didn’t “give them what they needed.”

I too am a parent of a psychopathic child, and one who is NOT a psychopath, but whom I am not proud of his moral compass and am essentially NC with him, but I do NOT BLAME MYSELF for either son’s behavior because they have CHOICES in how they behave. They both know right from wrong, and they choose to do what they do even though they were taught and modeled morals, responsibility–though I admit I was far from a perfect parent and I did not model properly setting boundaries, but I was a GOOD parent who worked hard at being a GOOD parent.

My sons have CHOICES in how they behave, and those choices were sometimes immoral, sometimes abusive, sometimes horrible, but they were things that my sons CHOSE to do. Patrick is a full-fledged psychopath without any conscience or moral compass, and who is both smart and very arrogant, and who thinks the world should bow down to his superior being, and if anyone crosses him, the deserve to die. I shake my head and wonder what if he had had a conscience….would he have been the next Einstein? Would he have discovered the cure for cancer? Or put a man on Mars? Would he have married and fathered children that he loved and nurtured? Instead he is in prison for a brutal and cold-blooded murder and he’s proud of what he did and it was HIS CHOICE. Do I think his life must be EMPTY? Yea, I do think that and I actually have compassion for him because he has NOT EXPERIENCED love and joy and bonding with another human being. He’s had sex a few times before he was locked up for the last 21 years, and maybe he’s had sex in prison I don’t know, but whatever he has done, he has never known the connection to another human being that comes from making LOVE, not just copulating. He has never held a child he made in his arms and had his heart fill with love until it over flowed into tears….what a shame that anyone has never experienced that special JOY of making love, of parenting a child. HOW SAD. Even though that is the case, and though I know that genetics are not 100% responsible for a person being or not being a psychopath, I do know that my son had a reasonable and consistent parent who loved him, did the best she could humanly do, and that I do NOT accept responsibility in any way for his choices as an adult.

I think about the little boy I loved….but he is GONE as all children grow up. He is As an adult though, NOT MY FRIEND, he is a stranger. I have fond memories and love for that little boy, but the man? Well I have nothing for him except sadness that he has no normal human feelings, but he needs to be caged because he is a danger to himself and society. That’s a shame. It is SAD, but it is not my choice, and not my fault….the only thing I am “responsible for ” is passing on a genetic flaw that I didn’t know I could pass on. My other biological son has at least chosen never to have a biological child and to potentially pass on that genetic material. I am happy about that.

I can see in the article where Travis is coming from I think, but I also see why a parent such as myself or Milo COULD interpret it as placing the blame on us for missing something when we were parenting them.

Since 90% of human communication is non-verbal, the written word can be difficult in expressing profound and deep concepts, such as compassion or forgiveness. I think each of us must decide for ourselves what our “interpretation” of those emotionally charged words such as “compassion” or “forgiveness”—-I’ve tried to make my own interpretation clear, but I understand that each person must decide for themselves how to interpret those and other words. No one here at LF is I think trying to lay blame onto a victim. We do have to accept responsibility for the things we did, for staying in a relationship long after there was abuse, but that is still not “blame.” Which is another of those emotionally charged words. Responsibility does not = blame in my “dictionary.”

(I((hugs))) to you all!



I do not think my daughter spath, but she is difficult. And there is an irony. WHen I dated her father, one night he ranted about his terrible parents, that b/c they were “perfect” parents he was disadvantaged. At the time, b/c I grew up severly abused, starved, and neglected, I thought it silly that he was so angry at such a blessing. I eventually severed communications with him b/c he was so abusive at a time when I was working my A* off to support my daughter whom he contributed nothing (and I didn’t ask him to). Work and a toddler was all I could handle. LF helped me to conclude he is likely a narcissist.

Years later, even though he’d only seen my daughter one time when she was 9mo old, SHE said nearly the identical words, accusing me of perfect parenting and how that made it impossible for her to cope in life.

No, I was not the perfect parent but funny how doing our best can be as bad as being the worst; spaths in the petrie dish develop THEIR interpretation no matter what the stimulus. That’s my conclusion.

Ox Drover

Travis, thanks for your apology, I have NO doubt that your intention was not to offend, but I do not believe that anyone who is not “abusive” here owes anyone else an apology for voicing their opinions here on LoveFraud.

True, I can see how some could INTERPRET this article to be placing blame on the parents…but I did not interpret it that way, and I was in no way offended.

I do feel compassion for those people who have no conscience, no empathy, no love…theirs must be an empty life…and that is a sad thing, and I do believe that they have a CHOICE in what they are, in their emptiness, as it were. I do not believe psychopathy is 100% genetics, but neither is alcoholism. Though we know that people with certain genetics are much more apt to become alcoholics…but there is still a CHOICE of to drink or not to drink.

I think psychopaths are the same way, they have a TENDENCY toward psychopathy, but they have a CHOICE in how to behave. Most of the ones I have run across know right from wrong, but they choose, in spite of this to behave in an abusive manner.

It is my son’s CHOICE, not mine, that along with the genetics I passed on and that his father passed on, along with his CHOICES makes him what he is. Might he have made other choices if I had “raised him differently?” I don’t know and it doesn’t matter, there’s no way to tell…but none-the-less, his choices are HIS.

Each of us is responsible for their own choices, assuming we are not mentally challenged.


Travis ,
Milo has a good point about “if you could have provided the child everything he needed.” She did.

Milo, if I recall correctly, you said your daughter exhibited this neediness from early on as a baby? It’s possible that her genetics or her experience before you adopted her created such an overwhelming neediness in her that you could never fill it, no matter how much you sacrificed for her. I’ve read that several serial killers were actually spoiled as children.

And you know what? I provided my spath everything he needed too, as did his mother. That’s the point. That is what spaths are addicted to: providers, suppliers, protectors and responsible people that they can parasite on. Not all of them are looking for money – though many are – but all of them thirst for emotional displays which prove that they have the power to get what they need from us.

The nature of this Parasite Disorder is that it requires a host to manifest the sense of entitlement. They look for hosts who will give because they feel entitled to receive. Some of them murder as an ultimate act of demanding sacrifice. They all demand sacrifices of some type.

Yet their response to sacrifice is never gratitude, instead it’s disdain and focused greed that demands more sacrifice. This reaction has all the hallmarks of an addiction and any help we attempt to give them becomes enabling.

I think that when we try to put ourselves in the spaths shoes we risk falling through the looking glass. There is nothing normal about them, everything is reversed and shallow, except for their shame which is buried deep in their core and covered up with a grandiose facade.

That said, I agree Travis, that we need to make sure we maintain compassion or we risk becoming infected by them and taking on their traits. I know that there is nothing my spath would have liked better than to make me feel envy and emptiness. His every move was a calculated psychological warfare to create that in my life. He did his best, but I refuse to feel envious and part of that ability comes from having compassion for his empty soul. While I have compassion for him, I know that displaying it only enables him, so I don’t. Just as feeling bitterness toward others is like taking a poison and hoping someone else dies, compassion for him is medicine for me, not for him.

Ox Drover

QUOTE SKY: “Just as feeling bitterness toward others is like taking a poison and hoping someone else dies, compassion for him is medicine for me, not for him.”

AMEN, Skylar, that is the point of the forgiveness and the compassion, it is medicine for us….but there is no way we can safely interact with them or allow them to abuse us any more (except for what MiLo and other co-parents do/es, because the law requires her to have “contact”)

We cannot allow them to make us bitter, hateful people. If we allow that, then they have “won.”


QUOTE OXY: “We cannot allow them to make us bitter, hateful people. If we allow that, then they have “won.” ”

AMEN, Sista Oxy!

Even before I knew what my spath was, I sensed this. It was actually obvious what he was trying to seed in my brain: envy and despair. Because of this I knew I had to resist and OPPOSE everything he was trying to do. My solution was humility. With humility, they cannot shame you. They cannot make you envious and there is no despair.

Saint Michael the Archangel who defeated Lucifer is the angel you pray to for humility (if you’re Catholic). Who woulda guessed?

Ox Drover

Travis, I believe the commands and suggestions in the Bible are given , for OUR benefit, and by following those commands and suggestions (Paul’s letters are full of them) David’s writings are full of them also and Proverbs is as well. These wise statements, commands, and suggestions are so that if we follow them, we will lead a good life.
There are several suggestions about how to treat a “brother who offends you” by his sinful/hateful/bad behavior. You go to them and try to talk to them. If that doesn’t work, you get a couple of witnesses and go back and talk to him, if that doesn’t work, you go to the community of the church , if he fails to “hear” then, treat him like a heathen.

Now if that does not sound like NO CONTACT I don’t know what does. In fact, it used to be a policy for churches to practice “shunning” in this very manner—-why? To show the person their behavior and attitude was wrong and they needed to change their behavior and their attitude, and if not, they did not need to be around “decent” people. I don’t know a single church that practices that any more. Sure, Jesus came for the sinner, but if the sinner is going to continue in that sin and make no effort to reform, we are to SHUN that person. NC!

There is a prison ministry named Kairos that I contribute to and that I know some of the ministers. They go into the prisons and have weekly meetings and some weekend long meetings where family members can go and visit all day face to face with their family member who is an inmate.

Only 10% of the Kairos groups go back to prison, where in the rest of the prison only 40% even finish out their paroles before they commit new crimes. I think there are two things working here. One, is that the majority of the men and women inmates who participate in this program are the ones who are the lower percentage of P-trait inmates, however, my son participated….he has always known how to quote the Bible to his advantage and how to fake his “sincere christian” role when he wants to. The program does well, though, if measured by the low recidivism rate.

I have become quite good friends with one of the ministers in the last 7 years, and I have educated this man about psychopaths. He in turn is educating others So hopefully they can pick out the ones like my son Patrick and weed them out of their program.

The purpose of “shunning” an unrepentant “brother” (or anyone else) is to bring them to an awareness of their bad behavior, it is sort of an adult version of “time out” and the idea is that if they value your friendship, companionship or love, they will reform their behavior, see their wrong doing and repent. But if they don’t, then you don’t need them in your life. Of course we know a psychopath may pretend to “repent” but that is where we must use our good sense and realize that ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS….

The story of Joseph, who was sold into slavery by his brothers and who recognized them when his 10 of 11 brothers came to buy grain in Egypt where he was now second only to the king himself. Joseph didn’t know what kind of men his brothers were since he had last seen them 10, 20, maybe 30 years before, so he TESTED them very strongly by setting them up and accusing them of having stolen some cups…then making them bring their youngest brother to verify what they had said. Then, when the youngest brother came and they were leaving again, again the cops rode up and accused them of strealing Joseph’s cup and it was found in the grain sack of the youngest brother. They were all take back and Benjamin, the only full brother to Joseph was going to be put in prison as a slave. The other brothers talked and knew that losing Benjamin would make their father so sad he would die, so they decided to have oone of the older brothers take Benjamin’s place as a slave.

So Joseph knew by that, that they had seen just how badly they had hurt their father by faking his death and sending him into slavery…and that they would NOT do that to him again, in fact, they were willing to take Benjamin’s punishment for the fake theft themselves. ONLY then, when he realized how they had changed did Joseph reveal to them who he was. He had TESTED before he TRUSTED. He SAW that his brothers had changed. Become mature and trustworthy men.

We know “why” the older brothers did what they did, they were insanely jealous of the younger brother who was from the favorite wife and was coddled by their father….given a coat of many colors and who was an arrogant little snot to them. It didn’t justify what they did, but it explained it. Aftger they saw the grief it brought on their father though, I think they repented of what they had done as the tests in Egypt showed.

Not all people who do even some pretty bad things are psychopaths, and all psychopaths though, do some pretty bad things, either emotionally abusing, financially, or physically or all the above.

I can feel badly/sadly, compassionately, that these people are missing the greatest thing in life…love and connectedness…but it doesn’t mean I am going to associate with them.

However, when a person does bad acts and shows that they either have no desire to repent or change their ways then I will “treat them like a heathen”—not be intimate with them—avoid them when I can, or total NC if it is bad enough.

If someone acts dishonest, mean, or irresponsible and is truly unrepentant, they have failed the “Ox Drover friend test”—doesn’t make any difference if they are a psychopath or not, I don’t need that person as a friend.

sharing the journey

Just a thought.

Since there are children and adults that follow God or the light-there will be an opposing set that follow the dark and the devil.

I an an ex catholic and I follow the teachings of compassion and love and if you look at many religions this is their
e basic teaching too.

10 years ago–before I knew that my ex h was a spath–I left him with my children because he was abusive. He had a better childhood than me as he was quite spoiled. I came from a single parent who was an alcaholic.

I saw a counsellor and he convinced me to picture that little boy. I did and I was overwhelmed by compassion and I took him back on the understanding that he would get help.

He went to counselling and for the next six years we were happy. Abuse had stopped.

Then suddenly he attacked me-raped me and called me by my children’s names. He wanted to kill me.

I just can’t see him as that little boy anymore. It’s gone.

What I experienced was evil and destructive to goodness. This was not a child of God. I cannot at this point drum up any more compassion that I felt the last time.

He killed it stone dead and I stay true to myself and my feelings at this moment.

Hurting me was one thing–but my children never.


sharing the journey

Do you know why I know he was true evil. He desecrated everything I held sacred-even my children to destabalise me.

He knew what he was doing and why.

I now save my compassion for those that deserve it.

He is my enemy. Did he once think of me and my children as abused once. NO. He thought only of himself and his sick pleasure at inflicting harm. HE LIKED IT.



I understand that you are angry but still, you don’t come across as bitter. You were attacked by an evil being, who if given any small opening would come back to finish the job, so I think your anger is protective and very good for you right now. It comes from your gut but not from your heart. There is also revulsion at his sick behavior. That comes from the gut too.

I think those are healthy feelings that protects us from harmful things. The compassion is just another layer of protection. I think that compassion is a layer of gratitude and humility when we realize that our goodness is a gift from God and not entirely due to our own merits. That’s how it protects us from becoming bitter and envious like the spaths.

sharing the journey

Thanks Skylar. Yes I am angry but not bitter. Life hits you with bangers.

But I battled evil and I know it. He is my enemy to me and my children and I will always battle evil when I come across it.

If God had not wanted me to–I would still be in its grip.

I too am humble and grateful for much that I have in life.

Hot and cold running water. Enough money to get by and most of all my kids and animals and also my freedom.

What more do I need.

I will never waste my compassion on anyone again that I feel doesn’t derverve it. I will leave that to other stronger souls.

I won’t be fooled again.

Thanks again Skylar for reflecting back at me my intentions. It helped clarify.


sharing the journey

Then again-never say never.



Travis ~ thank you for the apology. Even though this topic is controversial, in my opinion, it is one that needs to be discussed and I thank you for having the courage to bring it up.

I needed to let you know that the several references to providing the child with what he or she needed would somehow change the child was something that really bothered me. It bothered me because it was something that I have heard over and over throughout life with my daughter. First I heard it from the professionals that we took her to. It must be my fault that she is acting out in this manner, if I just gave her more attention, changed my parenting techniques etc., she would respond. I even heard it from well meaning relatives and friends. Then, because of the outrageous lies she told anyone and everyone, I heard it from teachers, parents of her friends. Finally, I sat through custody hearings where I heard her therapists testify that she suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder because of the abuse she had suffered as a child. These same therapists actually recommended that we not be considered to take care of her child because we should not be trusted with children. I sat there and listened to her attorney say her father and I were alcoholics and frequent drug users and this is why she had “issues”. Just as you spoke of your writing is from personal experience, this has been my personal experience.

Travis, please understand, I feel your writings here on LF have been extremely helpful. Your message on compassion and forgiveness is a very important one to becoming whole again.

Oxy – YES YES YES – if we allow them to make us bitter and hateful people – they have won. She will not take that from me, no one will.

Sky – Yes, I did mention that my daughter had this need for attention from a very early age. While her actions became much worse after puberty, she exhibited serious signs from a very early age. At almost four years old she intentionally and maliciously opened a security gate and pushed her nine month old baby brother down a flight of stairs in his walker. She then rushed down the stairs and pretended to come to his aid. Unbelieveably, he only had a rug burn down his face because he could have been killed. While I never could figure out how in the world the gate could have come open, I never knew she had done this until many years later when she was raging at me and told me what she had done. I don’t think she made it up because it was the only explanation that made sense.

She also tried to set the house on fire several times and would steal things constantly.

Littlewhitehorse ~ I totally understand where you are coming from, hurting your children is a line that can not be crossed. The pure evil, I can understand where you are coming from.

Your statement about adults and children following God and those that may follow darkness rang a bell. My southern baptist in laws (he is a pastor) have told me that they believe my daughter is the way she is because the devil is struggling with God over her soul. I am not at all sure that I believe that. I don’t follow many of the southern baptist beliefs, but I don’t judge them either. Just thought I would mention it.


I did read a book how the disordered memory works. Maybe Oxy can recall the book b/c I think it’s one she recommended. It gave me a lot of aha moments b/c I have struggled with how someone could believe/remember things that are so clearly untrue. The swiss cheese memory confounds me; total detail on some events that I thought insignificant yet NO memory on life changing events. I will look for the book and post the title if I find it.

Something I do believe, when a disordered person says they did something horrific, it’s the one time they are most likely telling the truth.


Littlewhitehorse ~ I was thinking more about what you said and remembered this –

I live in a community with a very large Amish population. Several years ago, in another Amish community in the next State over, there was a mass shooting in an Amish school. A man entered the school, lined the children up and shot several of them. There was actually a movie made about the incident.

Several days after the shooting, my neighbor who has several school age children, was in WalMart and was approached by a non Amish woman. This woman said how wonderful she thought it was that the Amish were such a forgiving people, to have forgiven the shooter and were praying for him. My neighbor said, I may be of the Amish faith, but I am a mother first and Amish second. If it had been one of my children, I would never forget or forgive. I hope he rots in He**.

Mothers are mothers. I believe that this was the subject of the movie, a mother of one of the children that could not bring herself to forgive and how she struggled with that.

Oxy ~ the Amish still practice shunning.

sharing the journey

Hi Milo
I think that if you are a person that believes in God then it follows that there must be an opposition in your beliefs i.e. the Devil

Same with goodness and evil

Light and dark

Psychologists would call it our conscience.

But it is the pleasure aspect.

For me I gain pleasure from seeing people happy or empowered in some way.

Spaths are the opposite

Before the spath attack of my Ex H–I believed that good and evil were opposing forces in our universe. If evil got too strong–good would rise up eventually to oppose. Like wars. genocide etc.

I always felt good would prevail.

But this was a world view born from contentment. I had healed all previous abuse within and I felt at peace with the world.

I revisited this concept atfter the battle with the spath H. Peace and love and harmony had lost. She lay on the floor broken–her mind shattered and soul raped. Yes I lost that battle big time. Evil was too strong and used the element of surprise.

It knew what it was doing.

But then I thought–yes I lost the battle. It won–but have I lost the war. Long term I think I won the war. He has no connection with his children and lives a solitary life with his mother which he love/hates. He lost the love of a woman-me-who cared deeply for him.

He is a coward and won’t form another intimate relationship. Do you know why–cos he has a wee tadger. lol. This is the truth-he wouldn’t put his fragile ego on the line.

I reconnected with my mum after many years apart and it is great and I have my kids and freedom.

But I am still healing. A battle with evil depletes you and you get wounded.

I once read somewhere that for every evil act you need to counteract with five good acts to level. No wonder us goodies get frustrated-especially if we are dealing with it alone. LOL

As for your daughter. I don’t know-it depends on your perceptions. I have a sister who grew up at the same time as me-only a year younger and was violent to me and others before I went NC with her. I think she has HPD. She wasn’t treated any differnt from any of us-there are four-but she was always jealous–especially of me as I am her only sister.

In my experience-there are many families with one bad apple. There are also some shit parents with lovely kids.

It is choice

Following good be it happiness for myself and others gives me a buzz and I get the pleasure of feeling good about myself.

So a spath and following evil and revelling in the misfortunes of others gives them a buzz. But I don’t think they feel good about themselves only a transient surge of power.

And this makes them jealous of you.

I never think it’s the parents fault-I mean look at Travis.

And yes-I’m a she tiger where my kids are concerned.



Thanks Katy ~ I do believe that she did open the gate and push him. Just the way it came out in a “rage”, only a couple of years ago. I didn’t react at the time, then later I mentioned it to her and she said “Why do you say that”, like I had dreamed it.

It also is the only thing that makes sense. The gate was secure and locked and there was just no other way, except somebody opening it. At the time, it never even crossed my mind that she was capable of doing such a thing. The best part – it was the day before we went to court to finalize the baby’s adoption. I guess she really didn’t want competition for attention.


Littlewhitehorse – sorry we posted over each other. I am just so glad you got away.

Yes, I agree, look at Travis, look at Katy, look at so many others on here that had horrific childhoods and look how they have overcome and the inspirational people they have become.

Years ago, when I worked in Children Services, we would notice that it seemed the kids that came from the worst of the worst, abuse wise, somehow came out the other end in better shape than some of the less severe cases.


My X! husband derived his feeling of superiority from one upping others. But you make a good point, that it’s TRANSIENT and thus they have to hit that button again and again. My spath suffered diminishing returns and he needed new victims.

I do think that our ability to feel long term satisfaction makes them envious, that’s why they attack what give us pleasure. My X! husband attacked my love for music, that I didn’t deserve it, and the stereo was trashed. For a long time I agreed that I didn’t deserve it, but when I got involved with music again, I realized what was taken from me was more than music, it was a destressor. He took what HELPED me cope with his abuse. Mf’r. (I LOVE you lucky Uk)

I also think abuse is a CONSCIOUS choice. His parents had the most hateful marriage I’d ever seen and before we married, we pledged to NEVER be like them. I remember my X! husband telling our psychologist that he CHOSE to start using the same abuses on me that his father did to his mother as a way to exert control over me. I maintained that pledge, I didn’t become like his mother, his father, my mother, nor my father. I became like my neighbors who are still pretty terrific role models.

sharing the journey

Hi Katy did.

One of your famous ‘me toos’.

My ex trashed my love of books early on in our marriage and I gave them up for years. I was young and he made it out that I loved them more than him. I hadn’t a clue about controlling men.

Also–the pledge. Not to have a hate filled marriage like his mum and dad’s. Guess who kept it and who didn’t.

After doing what he did to me–he had the cheek to try and blackmail me with this pledge and my sincere commitment to my vows to keep me with him.

He knew that these meant something deep to me.


New Beginning

Travis, this is such a compelling article on a topic I feel quite strongly about. Thank you so much.

I haven’t read any of the comments however I did want to add that without a doubt what my ex wants/wanted more than anything is to feel loved…..and I expect he wanted to love as well. He knows he’s missing a major component of what most people experience in relationships. I believe his sex addiction is the only way he knows how to attempt to find comfort but with each experience, he only finds more emptiness.

My ex has tried to eliminate me on numerous occasions. He’s told people that I’ve done what he’s done. It is my belief the only way he can cope is to make it so he doesn’t have to be exposed to what he is missing in addition to not being able to live with having his true self exposed to me.

He was born into a long line of narcissitic/borderline/psychopathic personalities and a lengthy history of parental neglect that spans countelss generations. I remember when he married me he said he was determined to break the cycle though at the time I didn’t have a clue as to the depth of the abuse there was in the family. We had a son after being married for 8 years and without fail, he always defaulted to my parenting style which reflected my very happy childhood. My son is now a young adult and throughout his upbringing, my ex had often verbalized how satisfied he was to know he finally broke the cycle. So as I contemplate this I realize he had to fight against his natural tendencies this entire time, and finally as our child became an adult I believe he ran out of steam and could no longer manage to maintain the mask.

There have been many negative things that lurked below the surface for decades. Despite this our son always thought we had a loving family. Looking back I’m not sure I could ask for anymore than that and having a healthy child. My ex has indeed broken the cycle. I believe that even though my son may have inherited some genetic tendencies from his father, he grew up surrounded by love and I believe this will make a difference in his life and the many generations that follow. For that I am so very grateful.

For all the negative things that have been done, he achieved a major and very noteworthy goal. He broke the cycle. The son we share will bring change to future generations and hopefully by doing so will forever alter the severe impact of the psychopathic genes that are passed along.

I will always feel compassion for my ex-husband and though I will never go back to him, there is a part of me that will always love him. I know, it sounds pathetic, but it is what my heart feels and it doesn’t appear there is much that will change it.




It doesn’t sound pathetic at all to me. You loved him. I’m not going to rubbish that emotion. I know how you feel my friend.

Just don’t let it consume you or prevent you from loving someone else. That’s the scary part for me at the moment. Can I ever love anyone again?

Hope you find peace too

New Beginning


Thank you so much for your supportive words. It is nice to know I am not the only one who feels this way Some days I feel broken because I don’t hate him but he was part of life for 34 out of 53 years and it’s not something I can just abandon.

I struggle with the same….not knowing if I can ever let someone else in again. I know one thing for sure – letting new people into my life will be a very slow process. It will definitely weed out the impatient, lol.

May we all find hope, love and peace ……and have the feeling stick for more than a couple days at a time!


New Beginning

Travis, your experience offers inspiration to those of us still struggling on our journey.

I’ve only been posting on LF for a few months however one thing I’ve noticed time and again is that each person has to cope and heal in their own way……and each situation is as unique as we are as individuals.

So glad you found a path out of the darkness. 🙂


sharing the journey

New beginning

34 years is a long time to let go of. It is most of your life and I think it will take some time.

I too am slowly letting go of 22 years. Mostly painful memories. But in the last year of our life together he managed to destroy every loving and sentimental feeling I had towards him.

I was such a romantic. So it is hard turning over the stones of our life together and letting it go.

I don’t know or think I have it in me again to love so completely and I know that’s a shame as I had this ability before.

And it was good.

I second your last comment.


the sisterhood

This may be slightly off topic, but I was wondering what a parent should do if he/she suspects that their child feels empty inside and cannot feel love? Can you raise a child to learn to love? Are they a lost cause? At what age is it too late to help them?

New Beginning

Thank you Little White Horse. I am having a similar experience to yours in that most loving and sentimental memories I have from all those years together. Still, they were wonderful years rasing my son and I try to focus on that.

I believe the problem is there was so much deceit that it cannot be viewed separately as it was part of the foundation on which the marriage was built…..even if we didn’t realize it at the time.

I’ve joined a general grief support group that is starting it’s sessions in a couple of weeks. My mother came down with pneumonia 6 weeks after the divorce was finalized and died 3 weeks later. Since that time I’ve been dealing with the losses and processing the estate and realized I am unable to get past it all on my own. Better days are coming.

I am also in agreement about loving someone completely and don’t think it will be possible for me either. I hope I’m wrong but suspect I will never let myself be that vulnerable again.

One day/step at a time. We will rebuild. 🙂


New Beginning

Dear Sisterhood,

You can always make a difference by surrounding a child with love. I see some narcissistic traits in my young adult son who has also been diagnosed as bipolar yet I see and hear many things that shows he cares. Children, teens and young adults tend to be narcissistic anyway so it can be quite a guessing game in deciphering what is age related in comparison to a mental/emotional condition.

I’m not sure how young the child is that you speak of however there is scientific evidence that brain chemicals can be altered by positive behavior especially at a young age. I do believe every situation and individual is unique so it’s hard to say but more often than not, young children learn their values from the actions of those around them. It’s difficult to say when there are people who are murderers despite being brought up in good homes but who’s to say how much worse it would be if they were brought up in a neglectful environment?

It must be a very unsettling situation for you. (((hugs)))


sharing the journey

New Beginning

I’m glad that you have your grief support goup. You have a lot on your plate to deal with.

Try and take extra special care of yourself at this time. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

I don’t think that I could be that vulnerable again either-but if not-it doesn’t matter as long as we heal and become happy with ourselfs.

Yeah–we will rebuild and I hope-mostly in wisdom and peace.

Meaning in madness

For all the negative things that have been done, he achieved a major and very noteworthy goal. He broke the cycle. The son we share will bring change to future generations and hopefully by doing so will forever alter the severe impact of the psychopathic genes that are passed along.


New Beginning

Little White Horse, my first challenge is to let someone other than my son enter my home. Just cannot allow people into my “safe” space. It’s going to be a long road.

the sisterhood

Thank you New Beginning. It is my son that has me a bit concerned. He is 8 years old. After posting about my biological father above, I kind of had a light bulb moment and got very scared.

I know that it could be in my son’s genetic makeup. He also has ADD and Tourettes. He does not have behavioral issues and the adults in his life just love him. He is struggles a bit socially. We have him on Ritalin for the ADD and Guanfacine for the Tic Disorder.

To be honest, both my husband and I most likely had ADD/ADHD as children. My husband was a holy terror. At 5, he even drug a sledge hammer to the playground to use it on the children picking on him. My husband grew up to be truly the most loving and understandning human being. He couldn’t hurt a fly. He is an awesome father and husband. And I know he loves us very much.

But what has me concerned is my son’s attitude/emotional state. It could be the meds he is on, but I saw signs of his sadness since he was 4 years old. He is so angry now. I sat him down and asked him if he felt loved enough and he said no. I also asked him what he feels inside when he says he loves me. He says he doesn’t feel anything. He said he isn’t sure what love feels like. He just feels blah.

He did cry to me and said it wasn’t fair that he didn’t feel happy when he told me he loved me and that he just wants to love his mommy. I was touched but very concerned at the same time.

In all of his psych evals that he has had, no one seems to think he has anti-social tendancies or depression. I am starting to strongly disagree (at least about the depression).

Wow, I had no idea I would be going down this path on Lovefraud. I kind of feel like I really exposed myself a bit, but I guess I’m here for a reason.

Any advice would be great. Thank you.

sharing the journey

New beginning

You and me both. I have a panic disorder and agorophobia. My sense of saftey was shattered. I can stand at the back door for 10 minutes now.

This too shall pass


New Beginning

Sisterhood, I know very little about mental health maladies however being bipolar can cause anger/sadness. My son is bipolar though the symptoms didn’t appear until he was 19 and away at college. The change was so significant that he knew something was wrong when he was waking up angry with no valid reason to be. He’s on medication now and back to his usual self most days. It’s a challenge even for the mental health professionals as so many of these conditions can be co-morbid. On the other hand I’m not sure my son would have truly understood feeling “love” at the age of 8. Kids are narcissitic by nature and I believe it may possible the sadness you see is associated with how others respond to him socially. It wasn’t until my son was into early adolescence that our relationship became more of a two way street. At 8 yrs of age they still need to be completely taken care of on an emotional level.

Little White Horse, it does get better. I venture out much more than I used to however have lost casual friends due to being unable to let anyone enter. Now they think I have something to hide, lol. I had lots of difficulty with panic as well and used to take xanax regularly but only take it now on rare occasions and usually when I can’t sleep because I’m shaken up about something. Take baby steps and eventually you’ll get there.


Ox Drover: Moral Event Horizon. That is the point of no return for people. Check out a site called tvtropes to read more about it in popular culture. That is the hump that once crossed, you can never redeem yourself or feel compassion again. This is often crossed by the trope Complete Monster, which describes many sociopaths. I’m telling you, that site is great because so many fans of all media go on there. Too bad many of those page viewers believe these tropes to be fictional. 🙁


There is a famous quote by a well known Mexican President (Benito Juarez) and it goes like this “El Respeto al Derecho Ajeno es La Paz” ENGLISH: “To Respect other Peoples Rights is Peace”
I respect your right to your opinion and point of view Travis. I am so craving Peace in my life; something I’ve not had in a while. Is your Dad in Jail? I believe I read here on LF that he is.
Most of us here are in survival mode; still getting messages from SP’s; still having accounts hacked by SP’s. I think compassion is what got me in this mess, I believe in God…but I have stopped trying to be God. God is full of compassion so I’ll leave that to him; He also understands 100% how I feel and he loves me no less. I also believe we are all at different stages in our healing and experience with SP’s. Maybe one day we will see things your way (maybe). I am so proud of you for Turning Darkness into Light with God’s help! Blessings to you and your family Travis.

Ox Drover

Dear SisterSister,

I suggest that you get your son to a qualified CHILD psychiatrist. Your son may indeed be depressed. It is very unusual for bi-polar to show up this young but depression is a possibility. Of course there is no way I can know what is going on with your child, but I think professional follow up of these symptoms is very appropriate.

Kids up to age 8 don’t really “get” exactly what “love” is yet, they are more narcissistic in their outlook, and that is okay. It is age appropriate. So The concept of “love” may yet be something he will develop normally.

I wouldn’t be at all “panicked” about him, but I would get it evaluated by appropriate mental health experts. Just for your peace of mind if nothing else. (((hugs)))

Ox Drover

Thanks Near, I’ll check it out.


I am new here and do not want to offend. I was triggered, I think, but Travis’s blog.
I think I got into my trouble by being to naively compassionate and I am working very hard on seeing those feelings in myself as a red flag to myself to stop, back up and feel things through. I am learning to ‘feel’ though things…trust my gut and not let my mind override the red flags anymore.
It is very lonely in that those around me do not understand – except perhaps my son, who was also affected. And also lonely in that my shame is so strong and my trust so eroded that I am not comfortable sharing with people in my life….um…those that are left.
Travis asks “what happened to that person to make them feel that way?”…and my immediate reaction was that they don’t ‘feel’. They act…and with intention.
I have forgiven my ex. I am thankful in that I am a wiser person and am currently enjoying my alone time as I heal. I am leary of entering into friendships and not at all interested in another love I have to strengthen what has been destroyed inside me.
But I am able to forgive because I have been given a gift – I’ve had to grow up – at almost 50. No longer will I give myself away – put other’s first and so I have been raised/conditioned to do.
For me, forgiveness gives emotional detachment. That emotional detachment that severs the love bombing trauma.
“let go and let God”, I believe.
As I read Travis’s blog…I saw the soft and loveable (father) as a teddy bear with black rot inside.
Even as a child, I felt bad for the ‘bad guys’ on tv and would tell myself that they were somebody’s son…..perhaps they were born ‘bad’ and i was born ‘gullible’.
I chose my spath – I thought from a healthy place. Obviously not.
I am looking forward to reading your book Travis.
I am not yet at where I can be where you are in regards to compassion as I still need to get stronger. I fear that I will still get sucked in…still vulnerable.


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