Where we find psychopaths, we may find accomplices. There are no shortages of individuals who are ready and waiting to champion psychopaths’ causes or support their agendas. This happens in a variety of circumstances and for a variety of reasons. However, if our brushes with psychopathy came by way of romantic involvement, we may have lived through the experience of having been “replaced.” This is common because relationships with psychopaths do not endure. This doesn’t reflect on us, as we probably once thought. Rather, it is merely a phenomenon that comes with the territory.
Initially, we may have been upset or experience sadness and confusion. However, in time, those feelings tend to subside, especially, as we gain information regarding what we were dealing with and just how psychopaths operate.
We may come to feel bad or concerned for our “replacements” because oftentimes, they are much like us. In spite of the fact that we may feel they played a role in some of the breakdown, over time, we come to understand that they were probably placed under the same “spells” we were. Their beginnings probably looked similar to ours, rich with lies and pity plays. We can often predict what their futures hold and may come to see these individuals as the psychopaths’ pawns or new victims, rather than home-wreckers, as we once thought.
However, there are also times when this is simply not the case. The next person may not have been chosen for the same reasons we were. The new person may not be the victim we suspected, but rather, the accomplice. We may have been busy thinking, “Poor Bonnie,” when we should have been thinking “Bonnie and Clyde.”
What lies ahead for us when Clyde meets Bonnie?
If this happens, we should cut our losses, run quickly, and never look back. However, there are some circumstances which prohibit clean breaks. These situations are slightly more challenging, but we can and must learn how to effectively handle them. When psychopaths enlist other individuals to do their dirty work, and this happens consistently, we must brace for a bit of a wild ride. Why? Ask what normal, decent person would want to be an accomplice. A reasonable and healthy person would probably pass on this type of involvement. As a result, dealing with both Bonnie and Clyde can be somewhat exhausting. Wrangling this dysfunctional duo can take practice and patience.
Try to maintain perspective on both of them. This helps immensely as we muddle through completely false accusations, rampant projection, name calling, set up’s, lies, possible police involvement, and potentially even frivolous law suits. Frankly, these examples may only be the tip of the iceberg and we may have to consider our physical safety, as well.
When they launch attacks against us and/or our friends and family members, it will feel wrong and perverse because it is, but we must not lower ourselves in their battles. There may be times when we react in various, less than perfect ways, as we work to grasp what is occurring, but rest assured, time and experience are the best teachers.
How do they choose their accomplices?
Psychopaths look for what they can use in people. Their accomplices fill a need. At the same time, the psychopaths may be filling one or more of their needs too. We must also consider the possibility that they may have personality disorders themselves. Regardless, they tend to feel that they are special or have been chosen for legitimate reasons. In reality, they simply possess usable traits or qualities, just like anyone else psychopaths target.
What does set typical accomplices apart, however, is their propensity for seeing their roles as fun, exciting, or even entertaining, where others would refuse to engage in such behaviors. They may feel that they are helping the psychopaths attain twisted forms of justice. Their roles become obvious, especially in cases where the psychopaths or individuals with psychopathic traits, are legitimately incapable of some of the “work” the accomplices do. If and when we dare question what seems as plain as day, we should be prepared to watch the accusations fly. We must be ready for anything and let nothing surprise us.
What do we do when an accomplice is involved?
We must re-train out brains to think differently than they would in normal situations where we were not repeatedly being manipulated, framed, or harassed. We must accept that the interactions will not be pleasant and realize that “nice” is out of the question. It’s not part of their plan, even if it is what we desire. We must also learn to stop seeking approval from people who do not matter and they do not matter.
They do not like us and that will not change. They are not looking to improve any part of these particular situations at hand, as they may claim, either. Any of our attempts to encourage reasonable communication will fail. The only genuine portion of their agendas is their pursuit of our demise. Therefore, we must examine exactly who we are dealing with and realize the lack of value attached to what they “think.” It’s jumbled and bizarre. Let it go.
Additionally, we must acknowledge that their exchanges are intended to make us look wrong or unstable. Accepting this fact allows us to function without the burden of wondering what’s going on or searching for answers as to why they are doing what they are doing. It’s the disorder speaking. Look no further.
They will likely inform us that we are “sick,” “disturbed,” or “in need of mental help.” We must take it with a grain of salt. They want us to become upset by their behaviors. If we do, they can blame us for our “instability” or “erratic behavior.” Don’t reinforce their false accusations and assertions. Refuse to engage in any form of “back and forth.” It accomplishes nothing productive.
Next, stop, breathe, and steer clear of lengthy defenses. That’s where they want us. We must not allow that. Exercise extreme self control. Over time, as we learn and they no longer matter, this becomes easier. While still feeling emotional or hurt, this may take great effort, but that’s ok. It’s worth it.
Understand that in these situations, we are often faced with two dysfunctional people whose common bond is their hatred for us. Their relationship may have been formed on that hatred or continue to be fueled by it. It’s unfortunate when “settling the score” is the glue, but it happens and it’s a recipe for disaster unless we come understand and act accordingly.
Recognize our strength and give ourselves credit
Though things may seem ridiculous and endless while in the heat of the moment with these folks, we should remind ourselves not to internalize their words or actions. Think about how they look to everyone who is not them or those immediately involved with them. Guaranteed, it’s not “normal.” We must take comfort in who we are. We must believe that even if this enters our world, it need not define us. We should take a moment to recognize our strengths and another to give ourselves credit. We may even get to the point, when we can shake our heads in dismay at their actions and truly pity them (if we care to even spend our time or thoughts on the matter.) It really is sad that anyone would choose to conduct their lives in such fashions.
We should treat ourselves well and keep ourselves healthy, emotionally and otherwise. It is easy for us to get wrapped up in someone else’s “crazy.” However, we should try to get in touch with and then stay in touch with ourselves. We should do the things that make us feel “normal,” like the people we were prior to these experiences. When we do, we are better able to visualize ourselves being more than fine, if we are not already.
G1S, you’ve raised some interesting questions and I wonder how many spaths visit this site for entertainment, as well as tutelage to hone their techniques.
Judges don’t “hear” the facts or sort through them because each case is a docket number, IMHO. I’ve been through the custody/visitation insanity and the fact that the first abusive exspath kept a literal arsenal of firearms in his home made NO impact upon any decision. The court-ordered psychiatric evaluation portrayed me as a volatile and self-absorbed nutcase and the abusive exspath as an unambitious guy who “vehemently denies” any abuse, of any sort. And, this was the professional assessment that was given and taken as factual.
What I have learned in those nasty experiences is that each judge’s docket is full of the same complaints by differeing parties – they’ve heard it ALL, and they just want the litigants to exit their courtrooms and “play nice” so they can clear the docket. In spite of documentation, reports, etc., there is NO skepticism ever in play during these hearings. I’ve never seen one judge look at one party and say, “I believe that you’re lying through your teeth and that you told the psychiatrist what you think he/she wanted to hear.”
But, going back to my curiosity about who visits this site and what their motive might be, I’d HATE for the current exspath to glean any more techniques that might enhance his illusion. He read a couple of books on spathy a few years ago and, using the information contained in those books, launched the most subtle and effective campaign of crazymaking and deceit that I’ve ever experienced. I was the definition of that frog swimming in a lukewarm pot of water that boiled alive because the heat was increase ever-so-slowly!
Brightest blessings!
EDIT ADD: G1S, for whatever it’s worth, I believe that the only way to approach the custody/support/visitation issues is with documentation and an absolute absence of emotional reaction, whenever possible. Trying to “convince” an attorney or judge that someone is just plain BAD and predatory has never resulted in a fair or “just” decision, in my experiences.
Truthy,
Thanks for the feedback. Sad state of affairs. Horrible to think all our information to support others is being used against us, but how is what we’re doing here any different than trying to work something out in a therapist’s office?
I guess if there were a simple solution, somebody would have put it out by now.
Big sigh.
G1S, it is, indeed, a sad state of affairs, isn’t it? But, we’re supporting one another with compassion and emapthy. When a spath takes information rendered with compassion and empathy and tries to work it to their own benefit, it NEVER pans out to their grandiose expectations because the two qualities that motivate the suggestions, support, and encouragements are alien to them. They read the words, attempt to impliment them to their own designs, and usually fail in their schemes because (IMHO) their motivation is the destruction of another.
Yepper – no easy solutions, especially in courtroom dramas. The participating actors know their parts, but it’s the actual victims that are left without any guidance or justice.
Brightest blessings
Linda, Yes, the next visit with that counselor, I took my son D with me and also a big stack of documents showing that the Trojan Horse was indeed a convicted pedophile etc. so he did come to believe me. The same with the attorney in Texas, when he saw the mountain of evidence I had realized that I was not making up some far fetched story that read like a B movie script.
I think if we tend too be “fixers” (call it want you want to—co-dependent, enablers, fixers, hyper empathetic, suckers, even LOL) and we take what people say as “gospel” without looking for any other evidence, people who are “con wo/men” will pounce on us and we fall for the con.
Whether it is them love bombing us and selling us a flawed dog (like my recent article about that happening) or whether it is making us feel pity for them as “VICTIMS” of a psychopath, the cons seem to know which story is the one we will most likely fall for. Love bomb or pity ploy, or a combination of both. Then there is the ever successful “savior” play where they are going to rescue us from some problem.
In a discussion here on LF a while back the subject of “shunning” came up which I think is simply another word for NO CONTACT…and one of the bloggers said she had been “shunned” and that shunning is “torture” (and wiki does have that definition of shunning) and that if we “shunned” someone we were torturing them and that was a horrible thing for us to do because it hurt.
Well, yea, I imagine the psychopaths do feel “hurt” (from losing control) when we go NC with them but it is not about “punishing” them, it is about PROTECTING OURSELVES. “Shunning” as practiced by some religious and social groups is (at least supposed to be) about showing the person who is shunned the error of their ways so that they will stop what “sin” they are doing and come back to the ways of the group. Yes, it is a powerful group tool. It also can be misused by cult leaders to punish people and hurt people.
If a group member is “shunned” because they are a drunk (say for example) then maybe they will stop the drinking and so they will be improved because they don’t want to be cut off from everyone they love because of the excessive drinking so they will give up the drinking.
Of course psychopaths can ‘shun” us, and “smear us” to everyone that we know, destroying our reputations in the community and in the family. My own egg donor has done that to me, but by the same token I am NC with her except for the things I have to communicate with her about, and then I do that by e mail so there is a RECORD of that communication.
We advise people who are escaped or escaping from a relationship with a psychopath to go NO CONTACT which in effect is “shunning” which is “no contact” of any kind. The reason we do this is SELF PROTECTIVE though the psychopath may interpret it otherwise. NO CONTACT keeps us free of new injuries from the psychopath, it gives our minds time to calm down and THINK about what is going on inside our heads and hearts.
Psychopaths who “devalue and discard” us (and some do that and drop the victim like a hot potato when they are done with them, and others stalk their victims forever) are doing the NC thing when they discard us.
Psychopaths also use “shunning” or “cold shoulder” or “silence treatment” as punishment of victims if the victims don’t do exactly as they want.
Either way, finding CLOSURE in the relationship wit a psychopath is very difficult for us. Going NC allows us to reclaim control over the relationship and to say ENOUGH!!!! I’m doone!!!!
OxD, I’m with you – call it whatever you want, but where I am personally concerned, “No Contact” is a barrier of protection. There is no reason for me to speak with, to, or in the presence of the exspath OR his minions.
“Shunning” may be painful, but just because it causes someone else discomfort does not obligate me to tolerate stupidity and break that barrier of self-defense by responding to stupidity. I USED to be the person that could be counted upon to work the “peacekeeping” and “diplomacy,” and I resigned those positions. I am not required, by any Law or ethic, to give attention to stupidity or bad behaviors.
“No Contact” is probably the most priceless tool for recovery. Taking away that power and control from the spath and placing in our OWN hands puts a screeching halt to the “step-and-fetch-it” bullshirt that spaths spread.
Brightest blessings
OxD and all,
I, too, went into counseling after a family “lie” was confessed to me back in 1994. It explained so much of my life yet left many questions on the table but ALL had affected my past and was going to affect my future. I went straight to counseling after being intoxicated for days in a row for the first and only time in my life. It was that bad. The counselor who I went to see was one who was referred to me by an employee who I actually witnessed recovering and cleaning up her life with his support and guidance. He knew of me through her since I was her immediate boss. I felt it gave him a leg up and me.
I went in a mess and regurgitating all that I was dealing with. Probably in a mainly hysterical and intoxicated manner. LOL . I wasn’t known for that but maybe as a workaholic. After a time, he also asked if he could meet with my mother for some validation of facts although I don’t believe that’s how he presented it at that time. I didn’t have any knowledge of psychopathy or sociopathy except from the movies as most people believe as who they are.
After my mother FINALLY found her way into the office, I found it very validating when my counselor confirmed my mother had validated my reality! HUH? At the time I didn’t know that was what he was looking at but I did silently worry my mom would make this guy think I was nuts. I wondered what info he got from my mom. He never said. I imagine he did this to avoid wasting his time and mine. I really like the way this guy operates.
I believe OxD, did the exact right thing bringing documentation and a verifiable witness. I told a mother recently to bring some of her case info to her new therapist and she did. She felt great pride in educating the therapist in the family court problems. She would let me know when the therapist showed shock and read her documents. It’s probably a good way to see if your counselor is worth the money by how they handle the beginning sessions and how much fact checking they do to make sure your version of reality is how to proceed.
I was told repeatedly how strong and brave I was to be so willing to let my counselor speak with anyone he felt would help. I was there to GET HELP. I wanted him to have every tool he could to help me. I was always told crazy people don’t think they’re crazy so if I was in denial, somebody needed to know. lol……….
Every person I have referred to him has really liked him except those who LIE. They’re the only people not liking him.
G1S,
I think I am understanding your question correctly. I don’t know if you’ve heard of “Bill Eddy” who runs a “high conflict” institute. One of his books is called “Splitting” and I bought that in the beginning of my custody/everything case. It states to buy one for your attorney too. (my atty thought he knew everything so I didn’t bother)
I really believe “what” your particular judge would want or what they would appreciate totally depends on the judge. If law was truly running the court, documented facts and solid evidence for a judge to base an accurate decision would be what they want. But since it’s not necessarily what they are working from, it can be taken wrong. For instance if they are a narcisistic personality it can go a different way.
If you are asking in general, it depends on your judge from my experience but if you are asking about your particular judge, I found going to the courthouse and sitting in the back of the courtroom during my judges cases which resembled mine if possible (took some research to get that detailed info), I would be able to get an idea of what my particular judge was like. I also watched other judges out of curiosity of the system. I have to say I was horrified by just the cases I saw. Before this all happened to me, I read about it happening to others and then I watched it happen in real life at the courthouse. One day I went to watch a trial and I had 2 that resembled mine sort of. I watched one, OMG! The one I didn’t watch, the mother lost custody of her kids and jumped out onto the freeway, from the backseat of the car she was riding in and killed herself that very day on the way home! Nobody talks about her and it makes me angry.
Let me know if you think I may have info that would help.
I will preface this contribution by stating that I am not an attorney. However, as someone with a LOT of experience dealing with the court system, specifically as it relates to this discussion, I have learned a few things. Your group was correct. Deal in facts. Lawyers and judges need that. The emotion or the “he said, she said” becomes cumbersome and it’s useless information (to them) most of the time. No one cares if we feel someone is “scum.” In your situation, of course he is or you wouldn’t be in court. I know it happens every day, but should the law really have to chase someone down for support? On some level, the courts know what they are dealing with, even if they don’t know what it is called. Perhaps in other areas of family court, character and the like matter more, but in matters relating to child support, it’s a bit more cut and dry. If there is an existing order for it, he owes it. If there is not, things may be more complicated and case specific.
Regarding the outrageous claims, these individuals make them all the time, unfortunately. Stay on top of your attorney and push him/her to press for facts and then bring them up at the appropriate time. Attorneys must handle these folks slightly differently and watch how they question them and what they say to them. A lawyer familiar with the psychology behind this helps. Some are, some aren’t. Keep your explanations brief, but highlight what you already know. It is hard to offer specifics here. It may help, it may not. Again, the specifics of the case will determine that.
As far as the frustration relating to what can and can’t be discussed in court, it really does depend what topic is on the table for the day. To us, it may seem as though so much more could be said, but that is not how the system is set up. While the information may be useful, important, and seemingly relevant, sometimes, we have to wait. Although, the big picture should be painted during a trial. Sometimes, this is where the lawyer’s skill set comes into play. Sometimes, not as much. Remember, the minutia will not matter, but stay on top of things anyway. We may not be qualified to decide the difference between big and small in the eyes of the court, so arm your attorney with the facts, remind him or her of those facts from time to time, and pack your patience. It can be a slow process.
You mention “tells” and tactics. They are plentiful and we are working to expose them. One of the groups I work with has presented and is continuing to present to the legal population. They are responding well and wanting to learn more. This is positive.
Much luck and peace on your journey. Truly, your son deserves his support, but you also deserve peace of mind. As long as we are mentally still in battle, that is harder to achieve. I find it best if we distance ourselves mentally and deal carefully and in small doses with the necessary tasks at hand. This way, we do what we must, without being consumed by the situation. The reality is that they behave badly and don’t do what they are supposed to unless they can gain something from it.
Lastly, Oxy, I agree with their “hurt” being their loss of control. I also do believe in the importance of finding closure. Again, so right on. Once we do that, even if they continue to attempt engagement, their actions truly don’t matter. In a sense, we sterilize our environments because we are all good.
Oxy,
As you said, the reason we go NC is to protect ourselves from any more of their drama. The reason a community might shun someone is to remove the offender’s “supply”.
The disordered, cluster b spath craves attention and will do anything to get it. That’s why they engage in DRAMA. What they need for drama is : people’s attention. Take people’s attention away and they can’t get their drama. That’s why shunning works. It retrains them that drama, means LOSS of attention, while good behavior gets them the attention they crave again.
With a spath, this doesn’t really work so well because they never really learn. You have to shun them permanently. Otherwise, the moment you give them attention for behaving themselves, they get “duper’s delight” at the thought that they have tricked you. Then they begin to plan how they will manipulate your emotions again by making you really really happy so they can pull the rug out again and bring you crashing down.
Each time you go NC, and then take them back out of pity or whatever reason, you are allowing them to manipulate our emotions and that is just feeding them.
That’s why I’m done with second chances. It just feeds them. Remember: Please don’t feed the spaths.
Linda, I read your response and I “get it.” I have never had any intention of using the term, “sociopath,” or “disordered,” during testimony. I’ve also accepted that testimony doesn’t have anything to do with how I “feel” or “felt” about anything. As my counselor taught me, “Feelings are NOT facts.”
I’m angry, today, because I do NOT appreciate feeling pressured, and I’m taking that back, right now. I refuse to be pressured into anything, again. “Hurry up, or you’ll lose whatever you have left,” is not flying with me.
OxD……EXACTLY. And, someone told me, last night, that this bankruptcy thing is continued contact. If I respond/react to this, I’m STILL having contact with the exspath. Perhaps, that’s one of the reasons that this whole thing has me unpinned. Especially since the idiot bankruptcy attorney claims that he can waive a TRO so that the exspath and I can “meet to discuss” the particulars of this action. Uh……………………..no. FARK no.
Brightest blessings