By: Linda Hartoonian Almas, M.S. Ed
When dealing with psychopaths, or individuals with psychopathic features, nothing is as it seems to the naked eye. When in relationships with psychopathic individuals, the non-psychopaths bear the brunt of great responsibility, both real and perceived. After all, the “normals” really are left carrying the loads and picking up the pieces when the psychopaths are tired of playing the games that they initiated. However, the blame or burden they attempt to place on us, while accepting none for themselves, is not legitimate and we should not internalize it. Our actions and behaviors have little or nothing to do with the outcomes of their choices, even if they, for a time, have us believing otherwise.
While I generally feel that we are largely responsible for our own lives and have a fair amount of control over our own destinies, there is no question that when we interact closely with psychopaths, these notions may change. Our playing fields are far from level, altering everything we thought we knew about interpersonal communication and human behavior. In short, we are left reeling because we tend to assume that everyone is normal, or at least not psychopathic, and we act accordingly. We continue on this path until we gain an accurate understanding of how psychopaths function. Once we process and accept what we know, we give ourselves a tremendous gift; understanding. While we cannot change them and we come to know that, this understanding allows us to alter our behaviors, thus eliminating their power and control.
Pick and choose
For me, few questions remain about their behaviors or how to react to them. Almost twenty years’ experience—a combination of personal, professional, and academic—have brought me to this place. However, from time to time, I occasionally find myself pondering how they pick and choose which rules to follow.
At first, I felt the answer was obvious. It would seem that, like anything else they do, the answer would lie in the payoff. Perhaps it does. Given their lack of insight and inability to engage in any actual long term planning, it may be that simple. Nonetheless, the topic has caused me to give pause.
I am able to comprehend that they feel that the rules governing the rest of society simply do not apply to them. I am also able to understand that they have only limited regard for consequences. Furthermore, I realize that they tend to think mainly in the short term, and acknowledge that their desire for immediate gratification may override all else. But is there more; is there some form of rhyme or reason to their compliance or lack thereof?
For example, let’s examine financial obligations, since this tends to be a common area of non-compliance and general mismanagement. Let’s take this scenario one step further, and discuss court ordered financial obligations. In spite of the court system attaching a certain level of importance to these obligations, it is not uncommon for psychopathic individuals, or those with such features, to treat these orders as SUGGESTIONS. Why?
As with anything anyone does, there could be a multitude of reasons. However, psychopaths’ motivations may be more sinister than ours. It is clear that they have no problem insulting the integrity of the courts, but it is likely that this goes much further. Below, are some possible reasons.
Possible Reasons for Non-Compliance:
1. They may want those they owe to “suffer.”
2. They may be engaging in “payback” for something they perceive was done to them. Remember, they see themselves as the actual victims much of the time.
3. They may be attempting to stir the drama pot and elicit reactions or engagements, instigate arguments, or create circular, dead-end “back and forths” over their wrongdoing.
4. They may be attempting to bring out “bad behaviors” so that they look “right” or “justified” in their actions.
5. They may be attempting to frustrate, wear down, or harm financially, emotionally, or otherwise.
6. They may be attempting to exercise power and control over the situation.
7. They may be looking for pity, especially if they have a “good” reason (but you know better) as to why they are unable to pay.
8. They may want those they owe to internalize their wrongdoings, and accept blame. For example, “Had I not (fill in the blank,) I would be getting paid.”
9. They may simply be taking risks, with or without regard for any potential consequences. These risks may be calculated, planned, and enjoyable to them, or they may not give them a second thought.
10. They may simply feel that they have better things to spend “their” money on.
This list is, by no means, exhaustive. As I write, I can think of several more possibilities. Additionally, much of this list is not exclusive to financial choices. It could apply to many different sets of rules or norms. The important thing to remember, regardless of their motivations, is this; these choices are theirs, not ours. The rules and structure that govern society have spoken and in spite of what they decide, very real consequences could come their way in situations regarding such non-compliance or compliance on their terms.
So, how or why do they choose to follow some rules and not others? That is not something for which I can offer an absolute answer. This topic comes with many variables. We each probably hold some very solid theories, in addition to the ones I provided.
What I can offer is that I know it is our responsibility to utilize the gifts we gave (or are in the process of giving) ourselves and employ our knowledge. We must pull strength from our understanding and control ourselves, because reasoning with the unreasonable or attempting to work with those who wish to harm us is fruitless. It is a process that takes practice and persistence, but when we do this, we render them powerless regardless of their actions and choices.
Linda Hartoonian Almas has a Master’s Degree in Learning and Behavior. She is former a police officer who had her own run-in with a psychopath. She lectures on domestic violence and is a contributing author of a presentation on psychopathy in the family court system.
Oxy, I’m confused about the differences that you claim exist between mental health professionals and lay people.
Who exactly believes what? And just to add another bug into the equation, where do the courts lie with this concept?
As for making life plans, a lot of people don’t make huge, long-term, life plans. Case in point, look at how many people are unprepared for retirement. And even if one were to make a life plan, with the economy and everything else happening in the world, a life plan would be a joke.
I said that there is a subset of Ps that do plan and they plan extensively.
My P sister conferred with two professionals, her therapist and a lawyer, to develop her plan to attack us. Of course she lied to them to get the information that she wanted, but that’s irrelevant. She used that information for her plan.
She even conferred with me and literally took notes under the pretense that she was “trying to help me.” I later discovered that the questions she asked were directly related to the advice that she had been given by the therapist and lawyer to take my son away from me. The lies that she spun about how messed up and incapable I was and how she needed to take custody of my son were for “his own good.” Gag me.
My son’s P father is quick enough to plan as he goes along. He’s quite flexible and adaptable at changing course if his ultimate objective is at risk. He responds to what is said and how others react.
His lies are all about achieving his ends, which is not to pay anymore child support than he absolutely is forced to and rejecting his children to ensure they don’t get any ideas that he cares about them.
Moving On, I hear you.
The “professional jargon” of mental health professionals uses words that are “common ” words but they use them in a slightly different sense than we lay people do. Like the Anti-social term and the word impulsive are two that I can think of off hand.
Some mental health professionals (I include therapists and psychiatrists in this term) also believe that psychopaths can be “helped”
I suggest you read some of Dr. Leedom’s articles, I think she has one about impulse control (or lack of it) you will see the word being used a bit differently than I would if I were referring to an ADHD kid having “no impulse control.” (meaning he sees it, he desires it, he immediately does it)
Shalomy ~!
Hens: Miss you big time. Shalomy
Hens & Shalom, it’s good to “see” you both.
OxD, I have found that many (NOT ALL) mental health professionals, medical professionals, and legal professionals LOVE their jargon, and they LOVE to hear themselves SPEAK in Professionalese. I’ve boiled it down to this: each is a member of their profession’s Club – each profession has its own secret passwords and doublespeak that confound the average layperson. This simple fact provides the “professional” with the ultimate power: knowledge.
As far as the topic of the article goes, BOTH of the exspaths demonstrated compliance ONLY when it suited them, especially if compliance meant that they would appear to be cooperative or law-abiding. The most recent exspath would carry on about how he couldn’t abide deceit or larceny, and he turned around and bilked me out of tens of thousands without missing a beat.
Double standards, double entendres, and double lives. It must take a LOT of energy to continue that type of lifestyle. Perhaps, this might explain the exspaths’ abilities to sleep so soundly – they were simply exhausted from keeping so many bogus balls in the air.
Louise, on page 1, you had mentioned sharing some insights you had about what I had written early on in this thread. Were your insights about Schadenfreude, by any chance? I do hope you have a chance to share here, as I am very interested in reading what your thoughts are on that or anything else.
Thank you, Clair. When my self-esteem is good, I am far less “tolerant” of his bad behaviors, and I in fact corner him, confront him, and stand up to him, which all empowers me. When my self-esteem is REALLY good, I no longer have any need to do any of those things. I just quietly go about my own business of formulating and implementing my exit plan, under his nose, without his knowledge.
I read an abstract recently on psychopaths. Don’t recall who wrote it or where I found it (quite by accident). What stood out for me was how with treatment, the psychopaths showed improvement, to the point they were released back out into the real world. Only to backpedal and behave in criminal and other immoral or irrational ways which often landed them right back on the other side of the locked door (either in jail or in a psychiatric facility). You see, they knew all the right words to say and all the right things to do in donning their masks. But in the end, they could not keep their masks on forever, and they inevitably screwed up again.
IMO, the mental health professionals who think that psychopaths can be helped are wearing rose-colored glasses and obviously haven’t been in relationship with one of these people outside of a therapeutic setting inside the 4 walls of their office. If they were privy to accurate, honest follow-up with their patients after being released from care, or if they were even privy to 100% honesty provided by their patients to begin with, they would find that the truth of the matter is that these people do not change for the long haul. Any change that is witnessed is at best temporary. The only change that is really made is that they only get better at wearing the mask.
I’ve caught my PDH stealing again. He has been seeing his new therapist for about 6 weeks now. They have not discussed his stealing since the first session. Yet PDH has been stealing ever since.
He’s already managed to easily fool his therapist, but he can no longer fool me.
Abbri, we tend to focus on the “good” parts of them. If he’s so good to his kids, then maybe you perceive that to mean there is hope that he will also be good to you? Just a thought.
The single biggest mistake we can make is to hold onto hope that they are capable of positive change. If they were capable of that, then they would have done it by now. Oh, I am full well aware of how they make false promises to us and lead us to believe that they are going to change. This is what they do when they are cornered, or when they are trying to suck us back in. Remind yourself that he doesn’t really mean it, if this is what he claims. B/c if he really meant it, he would have made good on his claims by now.
There are so many great insights written here in this thread, but to call them all out would take 2 more pages! But here are my favorites:
Skylar wrote, “All spaths are alike, none of them care about any one. We are all supply to them, even when they treat us well, they have an ulterior motive.”
And “He complies when he can use compliance as part of his mask.
Period.”
OxDrover wrote, “Part of being a “good parent” is modeling good behavior, not encouraging LIES. What “good” father teaches his kids to LIE? Not any I know. What “good father” shows his children that he is a TRAMP?”
My PDH spath only complies when it is what he thinks will make him look good, or keep the heat off his back. Surface compliance is a tool of distraction he uses, b/c underneath that is all the non-compliant behaviors I find. He “appears” to be the model employee, which is why his employer has no idea he’s been stealing from them for at least a year now. Otherwise, he loathes compliance and in fact is quite contemptuous of it ”“ hence his non-compliance behind the scenes.
Compliance is also why he swears to my face that he is faithful and has never cheated on me. Compliance for him sometimes means he has to tell me what he thinks I want to hear, which isn’t necessarily the truth. His contempt of compliance is obvious, when I can see all his non-compliant behaviors when I play detective. Part of his compliance is making all his non-compliance less obvious and harder to detect.
LookingForTruth:
I guess it was just that everything you said about your husband sounds like my spath. They push and push until you catch them and then they beg for forgiveness, but never really meaning it. They can keep the con for a few months or a few years, but they seem to always fall again. I think sometimes they do TRY to change, but I don’t think they can. What is PDH? Personality Disordered Husband?
I had a bad day today. Just angry, sad, feeling like nothing I do is ever right, no self esteem, never want to look at another man, depressed…the list goes on 🙁
Looking for Truth,
In The Mask of Sanity Cleckley describes over a dozen cases of exactly what you said: spaths who seem compliant and then come right back into his psych ward as soon as they are released because they can’t/won’t stay out of trouble.
But the troubles that he described are not things that the spaths couldn’t hide if they tried even a little. They were blatant about their bad behavior, not clandestine like my spath was.
It seemed to me that these spaths were getting off on the mortification they were causing their families by getting caught and ALSO the exasperation of Dr. Cleckley himself at being unable to “figure them out”. This is typical spath behavior, they will cut off their own noses just to see the look on your face.
Sam Vaknin said, “narcissists don’t have enemies or friends, they just have supply.” They are addicted to drama and the attention and sensation of power that it brings.
I don’t think Dr. Cleckley ever figured out that he was just part of the spaths’ supply. By giving them the attention they wanted and investing his time and energy into them, he was actually feeding them.
That’s why, around here, we say:”Please don’t feed the spaths.”
😆
Skylar — thank you for passing along that insight which I only just now caught — that narcissists don’t have enemies or friends, they just have supply.
That is so brilliant and absolutely true. I really appreciate hearing it because, as much as I’ve focused on my spathy ex-husband here (and in my own thoughts), I have had another very puzzling, 5-year relationship which ended a few years ago… this was a non-violent relationship with a seemingly at-times loving man, and at other times distant, but the salient feature was that I was miserable and also his children seemed very miserable, and he “hated drama” yet there was a lot of drama. In fact, *I* at times would get upset (“dramatic”) with him (frustrated, lonely, at his distancing) and he would respond usually by telling me he was “sorry I was upset” and also reminding me that he doesn’t like drama, and that he can maybe only handle an intense “relationship-type” discussion once every 3 or so months… so I did a lot of “patient” putting my feelings on hold, so that about 4 times a year I could express my frustrations. Otherwise, I just kind of went along, and kept my ups and downs to myself.
Now I am realizing: HE had a lot to do with CREATING this drama which swirled around him, which he purported to hate!!!
It seems so obvious now. But so puzzling at the time.
Another story for another day, how I ended up with him and stayed so long. The short version is that in contrast to my violent ex-husband, he seemed nice, loving, attentive, liked me for myself (!!) (mostly at first, then the distance set in) and I also longed for a stable relationship and still had all that willingness in me to do heavy lifting in relationships. I didn’t want to be a “serial relationship” person, especially with a history of marriage failure behind me. So I put in a lot of effort.
But all this time, I’ve continued to be distracted by the smoke and mirrors of his asserting how he hated all that drama (I pitied him for being surrounded by it, poor guy), and it just seemed kind of ironic that for someone who hates drama, he seemed to have some pretty dramatic children and occasionally me (BTW, my temperament is even-keeled, so my occasional upset outbursts with him where I would express my emotions of loneliness in the relationship and desire to have more closeness, (yes I cried sometimes during these “outbursts” and occasionally had to suddenly leave the room because when I cry in front of someone who is unmoved by my tears, it is even more upsetting to me — so he called me “stomping” out of the room) were very uncharacteristic of me! And bothered me that I was acting “dramatic”). Now I see that I was manipulated. Not saying I’m not responsible for my behavior and feelings…. but there was stuff going on with him manipulating things so that people would be dramatic around him.
Oh, ick. And THANK YOU for helping me see this.
(((Hugs))) Louise”I am so sorry to read you were having such a bad day yesterday. I’ve had so many of those such as you describe also. I hope that today is a much better day for you. As we heal, we will have less bad days, and more good days, besides having the ability to bounce back more quickly from those bad days. When I am having a really bad day, I remind myself of what the good days feel like, which can inspire me to work towards having those again. I don’t mean to make any of it sound easy, b/c I know full well how difficult it can be.
Louise, I know that bad days are part and parcel due to what we have been through with our spaths. I hope you are able to find ways of healing and of gaining strength. I hope you are able to work on improving your self-esteem, so that you will no longer feel as if you do nothing right. I know that if you are able to focus on the right things, you will discover that there are many, many things that you in fact do right. I also know that when we are feeling sad, the depression can take over, and then, the depression becomes that negative voice inside our own heads. The irrational thoughts overcome us, and once they do, nothing at all feels right, we feel we do nothing right, and we once again become our own worst critics.
Personally, today, anyway, I don’t care if I ever have another romantic relationship again. I know that once he’s out, and the lawnmower breaks down, and he is not here to fix it, I assume I might fall apart in tears of frustration and sadness. Such an incident will remind me that he is not here to help out in such ways and could in fact cause me to feel helpless. I will start feeling the void of not having a man around. But I will either reach out for help from one of my sons or from a neighbor; or, I will take the lawnmower to the shop to be fixed. And in the meantime, I will borrow someone’s lawnmower to get me through.
This may be a more practical example, but whatever happens to cause me to feel any negative emotions surrounding the chapter of my life with him and the ensuing void once he’s gone, I will find a way around it. Hope you do too, Louise. I intend to find ways of filling that void with positive things otherwise.
Louise, the very first thing I did to help pull me out of my severe depression (triggered by PDH, which yes, translates to personality-disordered husband!), was to work on my self-esteem. I feel that our self-esteem is the backbone of who we are ”“ it is our foundation. It affects every single aspect of our lives. With good self-esteem, we are better equipped to make the best choices for ourselves. We are in a better position to use better judgement. We see things in their proper perspectives and through the right lense.
I read every single on-line article I could find on improving self-esteem, and then, I forced myself to start using the tools described. At first, I did not enjoy what I was doing, even though once upon a time, I once did. But eventually, I began to notice that I was in fact enjoying doing those things again. I was able to feel genuine happiness at times. I was able to experience at least some moments of inner peace again. For me, good self-esteem became a shield between PDH and I. When my self-esteem is good, he can no longer touch me in the same ways as he could before. Good self-esteem allows me to live my life well, and PDH cannot stand it when I am able to do that.