By | November 21, 2011 44 Comments

Psychopaths: perfectly suited for high finance

Why are we facing a world financial crisis? Perhaps because psychopaths are running the show. In a post on the website Reality Sandwich, author Jonathan Zap writes:

Most psychopaths are not violent criminals; they may be more likely to pursue white-collar crime, where the payoff is so much higher and the odds of detection so much lower.

Psychopaths are perfectly designed for success in many fields, especially business, law and politics. They have higher IQs on average than the general population; they are charming, charismatic and manipulative; they can be decisive and take risks without anxiety, and they are ruthless, cunning and coldly rational. Psychopaths often personify many of the traits that the human resource departments of many corporations look for in job candidates:  confidence, charisma, decisiveness, emotional detachment, coolness under fire and relentless drive.

In Part One of the article, the author gives a pretty good description of the psychopathic personality. In Part Two, he discusses examples of psychopathic behavior in business, referring to cases such as Enron and Bernie Madoff. He makes many valid points.

Read Foxes and Reptiles: Psychopathy and the financial meltdown, on

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

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Ox Drover

The author makes a statement that is often presumed but has been proven by research to be FALSE and that is that psychopaths are “higher than average IQ” which is NOT the case, actually they are just like everyone else…they are low IQ, average IQ and High IQ in the SAME proportions that the rest of the human race is. It may be, however, that people who are actually LABELED “psychopath” tend to be the “smarter ones” than the average or below average because the average to below average IQ psychopaths wouldn’t probably be ABLE to climb the “high finance” or “high politics” ladder like the smarter psychopaths would be able to do….example Bernie Madoff, John Edwards, etc. thus giving the idea that “most” psychopaths are the smarter kind.

Other wise, I think this article is quite good. Excellent in fact. It pleases me no end to have more published about psychopaths in the news, literature, etc. but I DO wish they would get their FACTS straight before they state them AS FACT.


I agree, Oxy. I stumbled across the exact same “fact” stated, while it’s a myth


Wow, long article and pretty good – except for the end.
He proposes that we hire spaths to monitor the other spaths. RED FLAG.

We have to watch for spaths who pretend to be “spath watchers” already. These are usually in the role of therapists and psychologists. They will have a lot of good information but not anything new. It will all be re-hashed. Furthermore, that information will tend to partly glorify spaths, making them seem larger than life. It will NEVER mention that they are infantile and emotionally arrested.

We don’t need to add more spaths to a spathy culture at the SEC. That’s like hiring a fox to watch the henhouse.


also, at some point he mentioned that spaths propagate by primarily targeting women in their fertile years. But not same sex or pre-pubescent children. WRONG.

They target everyone equally and are often covert pedophiles.


the author says he HAS experienced a spath who was playing head games with him and that he was subsequently conned out of some money. He mentions some other encounters as well. But you’re right, he doesn’t express the moral outrage that we do, so it’s as if he really hasn’t encountered any spaths.

I actually believe he is a spath. I’ve encountered a few who speak and WRITE as if they are outraged by spaths, but in real life they behave like spaths themselves, and not in a “situational psychopathy” kinda way. So I’m kind of waffling on what to think about this guy.

Another thing is that I don’t believe he has read, “The Mask of Sanity” though he references it. If he had, he would have read page 235 (or page 251 in the PDF), in which Cleckley addresses this topic and is disgusted by the very idea of asking if, “…the psychopath’s time has come, if there may be a worldwide need for him.” and if the spath is the remedy to the deterioration of the world (paraphrased).

My spathdar is equally alerted by what appears to be a “tell” by the author: He has entitled the article, foxes and reptiles AND he refers to Bud Fox as Gecko’s protoge who saves the day at the end of the movie, Wallstreet. Then he makes a suggestion very much akin to hiring the fox to watch the hen house. And we all know that this is an old saying because IT NEVER WORKS!! So why would he suggest it? It’s like there is a lack of depth in his understanding of the subject as well as the saying. Spaths always lack depth in understanding of everything.

just sayin’…


I just re-read the book WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS. I remember I thought it needed some editing when it came out, but still was an enlightening read. In that book, they reference how the spaths love to f*ck anything, they don’t differentiate, and I believe that’s true. Skylar, I believe you are right. They don’t differentiate.

Ox Drover

Donna did an article here about them being neither straight or gay, they are just perverts and will fark anything male, female, animal, mineral or vegetable!


My ex is a spath pedophile and I am convinced he would have sex with anyone 8-80. He is completely depraved! The age doesn’t matter because the person doesn’t matter! He sees people as objects to be used and discarded when they have outlived their usefulness.



I’m going to take the opposite side of this bet from you and say that he author is on to something when he advocates appointing sociopaths to government positions – and history supports me. When President Roosevelt created the Securities Exchange Commission, he appointed Joseph Kennedy the first chairman of the SEC. The appointment outraged everybody, since Kennedy was involved in some of the most notorious stock schemes of the 1920s, including one which was investigted by the Pecora commission. When asked why he appointed Kennedy, FDR reportedly said “It takes a thief to catch a thief.”

Joseph Kennedy’s behavior — financial chicanery, infidelity, highly manipulative — is well documented. Quite frankly, I am sure he would score very high on the PCL-R sociopathy test. But, FDR was right. Kennedy actually proved surprisingly good at what he did with respect to enforcing the SEC’s laws and regualtions. It wasn’t money that drove him. A few years later FDR named him Ambassador to Britain. Clearly Kennedy knew something about playing the long con – but FDR also understood what drove Kennedy — it wasn’t money, it was power and publicity.

Ox Drover

Matt, I think your take has a lot going for it. Thanks for your insight into this discussion.

I agree that Old Joe Kennedy was probably very high in psychopathic traits, and I think that most of his sons were as well. What amazed me, especially about Ted, was how he was OBVIOUSLY a piece of carp, without any moral scruples, and yet he kept getting elected year after year, term after term.

It is amazing to me that SOME politicians get booted for their lack of moral compasses, and others ride out the storm like “nothing happened.” Why crucify one guy for cheating, (John Edwards for example) and another one skates even when the woman drowns in a car wreck and he didn’t even try to save her, but instead tried to phony up an alibi (Ted Kennedy for example)? That part doesn’t make sense to me.

Of course there is an old saying that “people get the kind of government they DESERVE.” So maybe we deserve the government we have now.

Glad to see you back on LF! ((hugs)) to my favorite attorney!


Oxy and Matt,
times have changed… somewhat.
back in the old days there was a lot more winking going on. Now there is alot more hood-winking going on.

Ted Kennedy might not have survived his BS today, but back then, he skated.

I think the same about Joe Kennedy. The fact that he could keep the wallstreet gang in line didn’t mean he didn’t have his hand in the cookie jar the whole time. It was probably part of the trade off, people knew he had power outside of government and they didn’t want to end up with cement shoes so they toed the line.

The point is though, that we want to move PAST the days of Gengis Khan and to a world where power doesn’t equal corruption. Putting a fox in the hen house is an unpredictable scenario. It’s a crapshoot. And it’s unhealthy for the rest of society to have spaths in power because the spathiness trickles down.

I think it might be too late anyway, our culture has turned into an N-culture.



Love ya Matt!

Ox Drover

EB, Now don’t you laugh at me (((hugging)))) Matt….most attorneys that I know would not let me hug them because they would figure I had a KNIFE in AT LEAST one hand! LOL But not my Matt, cause he is my favorite attorney, cause he’s our LF attorney/adviser of good sense!

Sky, I think the culture is not any different now than “back when” (like back when we still lived in caves) the biggest, baddest psychopath on the block gets the most stuff and s/he takes it away from others by force or stealth.

Look at how things are over most of Africa and the Middle East, the people are ruled by terror, “believe in the god I believe in and worship the way I say or I will stone you to death” or “believe in the politics I believe in or I will lock you up or kill you”

Look at EVERY war that has been fought—the leader or leaderS were greedy and wanted something (even if only CONTROL) over some other group…every war or every dog fight has been over who is the TOP DOG and who gets the most stuff. Our country just has a bit of “culture” layered over the top of the greed and power motives…the Bernie Madoffs, the Bill Clintons, and the John Edwardses of this country screw others while pretending to be moral humans.


I have to add some comments after reading the article by Zap. I do not know what the solution is to dealing with intraspecies predators but that is one of the best descriptors to the problem we have. The solutions I would come up with initially sound pretty harsh but I am with the responder to the researcher’s question: In a Harvard University study conducted by anthropologist Jane M. Murphy in 1976, an Eskimo man was asked how his people might deal with a Kunlangeta, to which he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”

There are few points the author makes I take issue with, but there are one or two – some of which others have covered here. The one primarily I find fault with is his blame of capitalism for the run-amok problems we have had with the Bernie Madoff’s, Enron’s, World Savings, the Keating 5’s of the world. Capitalism practiced on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD – without government giving through regulation and tax code manipulation – and with a strong rule of law and protection of private property rights is the BEST insurance against the corrupt. You notice that NONE of the regulatory agencies that signed off on the risky mortgage backed securities as Triple A rated when it has been proven they knew they were [email protected] have gone to prison, no one from World Savings, Countrywide, Fannie or Freddie, Morningstar, Goldman Sachs (the chief psychopathic entity in all of it IMHO) NONE of those monsters went to prison – instead their friends in government actually rewarded them! THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES! Heck, the SEC was warned about Madoff long before it unraveled and they let it slide. That we will always have predators is indisputable – that the entities designed to protect us are failing is what is at issue. There are too many people getting paid to look the other way. We need to get rid of the blinders and stop thinking someone else – some government agency is going to save us – they are raping and pillaging right along side the snakes in suits, enabling, aiding and abetting – with NO RECOURSE – as you cannot sue the government and win in most cases as they have exempted themselves from the inevitable failures of human nature.

Allowing our elected officials to rob the population by playing favorites and tilting the playing field toward the financial elites is where the responsibility lies. It is not the person who offers the bribe that causes the real problem – it is the person that takes it. Unfortunately, the way it works in DC – if you do not take the bribe you then get punished – it is like a protection racket – pay up or we shut you down. I do not know the solution to it all and this is probably inappropriate here but I support Ron Paul. I could go on, I am well versed in what is coming not only in the US but throughout the world and the chief predators have a miserable future planned for the vast majority of us all. Our children and grandchildren will be serfs. Google the Georgia Guidestones if you want to know what Sociopathy / Psychopathy writ large looks like.


judging from your post, this will give you a heart attack.

Apparently, you CAN sue the government.
No matter how much you give these spaths, they want more. There are no words to express the audacity, but I will say this: they do it because they can, because we let them.


Sky – that makes me want to vomit – and yes – I stand corrected – you can sue – but unless you are suing for something ridiculous like that and you have vast sums of money – your chances of success are slim to none.

ON THE OTHER HAND – I know people locally who own coastal property and government agencies are suing them to get the land – and the owners have successfully won TWO cases and yet the coastal commission is coming back again at them because they want other people’s private property. It is beyond disgusting and that my tax dollars are used for this is infuriating.

Quick add – we are encouraged not own guns to protect ourselves and are told the police will do that. The fact is the police only show up AFTER the damage is done. If you are under threat from a stalker or other person they do not provide protection. They advise you to tear your life apart and move. AND – when you do call if you do not get a police response and are further harmed and you try to sue for damages – well good luck. Wake up people! Read here:
and here:


As far as the police goes, my spath had them all eating out of his hand and they were doing exactly what he told them. They were calling me, demanding that I prove I was still alive by coming to see them. This was because the spath likes to prove that he can make anyone jump when he says jump. Once I realized that, (from reading “why is it always about you? the seven deadly sins of narcissism” by sandy hotchkiss), I stopped responding to spath or his minions. So he brought in the big guns, the cops. I never did do what they wanted, but I did corner the sheriff one day and handed him a copy of the recording I made of the spath admitting to this. The sheriff said, “well if you’re so afraid of him then why don’t you move?”

Power corrupts. People in power only respect and protect other people with power. They do not respect or protect victims.


Ox Drover


Your points are absolutely correct, and these people SHOULD GO TO PRISON, but just like at PENN STATE—-if you want to find out what is happening FOLLOW THE MONEY.

It is “always about the money” was what my egg donor’s sleeze-bag attorney said when he was sneering at me when she accused me of trying to take her money.

Welllllllll, NO, IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY, there ARE people who tyry to do RIGHT, regardless of the money involved, but there is a MAJORITY (I think) who would sell their souls for the MONEY/POWER/CONTROL and just like Matt said some times it “takes a thief to catch a thief” and that is an unfortunate part of life.

One of the old “sayings” that con artists use is “you can’t cheat an honest man” and that is NOT always true, but many times like in the “Pigeon drop” con, the fact that the person who is the target is a BIT DISHONEST is the reason they can be cheated, because a totally honest person wouldn’t “fall for” the con.

The psychopaths know they can “black mail” people a bit or use a bit of dishonesty if the target is not a “hun-d-er-nt and ten percent” honest. I can hold my hand up and say that I too let myself be lured OFF CENTER of my own moral compass by the psychopaths I dealt with, and if I had stayed 100% on course morally I would have had much less problems with the psychopathic fall out. Not always, but some of the time, I was lured off center, and that makes it so much easier for them to target us. When they accuse us of being dishonest, if we have been totally HONEST, then at least when we say “I have NOT been dishonest” we can hold our heads us no matter what others believe.

When people are cheating on a marriage (even if the marriage is for all reasonable purposes dead) the psychopath can use that to legitimately smear them in the eyes of others….even if it is a one-time event, not a life pattern. The psychopath that I dated after my husband died had a LIFE LONG PATTERN of cheating on his wife with multiple women at the same time…his was not a “one time” lapse of moral compass, he HAD NO MORAL COMPASS and he would have cheated on me just like he did with her. He only wanted a “wife” to help keep his “harem” of women from insisting that he marry them, but those women KNEW he was married when he was “dating” them….so they really didn’t have a “moral leg” to stand on. If nothing else, I can say I didn’t date him when he was married, but I did date him a while longer AFTER I KNEW about his serial cheating in his marriage. I tried to excuse it and say “he would be different with me”—and of course that was big time denial.

Only NOW, if I recognize a pattern in someone’s behavior, I view frequent and continual spinning of the moral compass as a RED FLAG. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

I do realize that people CAN and do change….I have changed…but it takes a concerted and intense desire to change. One that unfortunately, psychopaths have no desire to change.

Ox Drover


“When seconds count, the cops are only MINUTES AWAY!”

“I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.”

Believe me, I do NOT depend on the police to protect me.

I am paranoid, but it is because there are people who want me dead.


Oxy – my marriage was a living hell, beyond miserable. For many years I could not screw up the strength to divorce as I took my vows seriously, unlike my spouse who cheated on me during the entire marriage. I did not know this but the day I found out I had been trying to fix something that would never be fixed I filed for divorce. Before I left the house I put the evidence all over the kitchen – I dang near wallpapered it. The asshat called me while I was at the attorney and laughingly said “what is all this?” – I said – you have two weeks, pack your stuff and get out, I am filing for divorce today…. He was just a passive aggressive moron with limited capability to be intimate (only with strangers)… Why I even share this – during all those years of misery I had several women “friends” encourage me to just have affairs to get my needs for physical and emotional contact met. My husband withheld sex from me for most of our 7 year marriage…2X a year was the average, the last 3 years – nothing… Yet, I stayed and I stayed faithful. After I finally kicked him out I began to date. He had the balls to accuse me of being an adulterer.

I next fell into the arms of the nutjob as I call him – the N/S/P that ultimately threatened my life. Knowing how I kept to my vows and did not toss my husband – he knew I was very prone to honoring my end of a commitment even in the face of the other person breaking their end. That is my failure – in believing I had to keep a commitment no matter what. You do not have to continue to honor an agreement that another has broken – especially when they break it repeatedly. A very painful lesson. I am teaching my kids (I joke that they are dang near immaculate conceptions…) that when someone shows you what they are – and what they are is evil or bad – walk or even run for the nearest exit. Do not allow your compassion or empathy or notions of politeness to allow you to be victimized. May God bless us all and keep us safe from the snakes in suits and out of them!

Ox Drover

Dear Breckgirl,

I hear you girlfriend! I think we all have that tendency to STICK with our vows, and with our commitments which is why we keep on hanging around after the abuse started.

“You can’t give up, he’s your sonnnnnnn” (excuse me while I puke)

I felt the same way about my egg donor, “but she’s your motherrrrrr” I am her only child so I felt OBLIGATED to take care of her to protect her from those that were trying to get her money, to hurt her…LOL

Yes, FOG, F-ear, O-bligation and G-uilt keeps us trying to find some way to fix them, to help them, to stick by our commitments, to get a crumb of affection from them.

I finally realized when my egg donor had gone behind my back and canceled my power of attorney and my ability to see her medical records that SINCE I NO LONGER HAD THE AUTHORITY TO TAKE CARE OF HER, I NO LONGER HAD THE OBLIGATION.

It was like a great weight was lifted off my back….my cousin has her POA and she has enough money to hire care givers, house keepers, etc. so I AM NOT OBLIGATED to take care of her. I couldn’t if I wanted to…she took away any authority or obligation I had to do for her, to take care of her. She forbids me from it. I no longer feel guilty that she has no one except hired caregivers.

It is odd too, back when I was taking care of her and my stepfather 24/7, she kept saying to me “Oh, I don’t know what we would do without Oxy, but WHO will be there to take care of Oxy when she gets old? There is NO one who will take care of Oxy, what will she do?”

She said it like she was complimenting me for taking care of her and my step-dad, but it was like one of those “but statements’ like “I love you, BUT….sometimes I want to slap you.” It is one of those things where ANYTHING before the “but” is a LIE, and anything after the “but” is the TRUTH.

I understand the falling into the arms of the “N/S/P” after your divorce. I sure as heck fell into the arms of one after my husband’s death because I was so NEEDY, I felt so old, fat, undesirable, like no one would ever want me and I was sooooo destitute of affection. Well, I realize now that he was looking for someone to be a “respectable wife” to keep his harem at bay! I was the perfect candidate because I was so needy. Fortunately, I woke up before I married him and kicked him to the curb.


There’s a lot of me too on this site. Your integrity and moral code is a Me Too reponse from me. I tried to fix my marriage until I realized NOTHING I did was gonna fix it b/c there was nothing to fix. Gotta start with something don’t we?

When I realized my husband NEVER planned to stay married, even though he claimed that once married, he was staying married, the TRUTH is: I was Married, HE was NOT. He was a single man our entired married life. And like you, withheld sex/affection/attention so mcuh that I thought him to have LOW sex drive; some years NO sex. I accepted that he was a NO sex man SO much that when I discovered he was cheating nearly the whole time, I was DEVASTATED. The day before I found out about his cheating, I would have bet my LIFE on him being faithful, cold and uncaring but NOT cheating. I was WRONG about him.

Yet even after finding out about cheating (thought at first it was just one woman) I stayed and tried to fix the marriage. I was NOT a QUITTER. I made those vows and thought “I am a person of character and that means I HONOR those vows even if he didn’t.” To me Getting a divorce was proof that I wasn’t the good person I thought myself to be.

There’s a LOT of fallacies that we tell ourselves that kept us trapped and vulnerable. I’ve learned the TRUTH about many of those false beliefs I used to carry. You too will read and add your ME TOO’s b/c maybe like me, you thought at times you might have made a big deal out of nothing. Here on LF, you will find out it was a bigger deal/more going on in that story than you even imagined, it’s not just what he did, it’s his motivation behind it that STUNS YOU.

Best to you,


I carry a gun b/c a cop is too heavy. HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha. I imagine an Ox Drover with a cop slung over her shoulder, like a right big sack of potatoes. 🙂 Gary Larson cartoon?

ps oxy. I’d take care of you but you’ll probably outlive me. my childhood friend and i have a pac that whoever ends up in the nursing home, the other has to pluck her chin hairs. 🙂

Ox Drover

PLUCK HER CHIN HAIRS! ROTFLMAO SNARK SNORT CHOKE!!! That is tooooooo rich, Katy! I guess I’ll just have to shave mine or let them grow! LOL


HEY oxy, That’s proof of my loyalty to my friend. I hardly pluck my own. Don’t have to look at them so they don’t bother me….


Oh My This brings a good memory. My granny would give me a nickle for every chin hair I plucked with her tweezer’s. I loved it when she would scream in pain and giggle at the same time.. Life is good.




Katydid. I don’t think I saw your whole story here, but the tidbits you have shared above are inspiring. How did you finally figure out he was a spath? Despite the cheating were there lies?


Oh Mylo – lol


There was a whole host of behaviors. LIES? Yep From Hello to GOODBYE. I kept thinking he was a sociopath but thought I had to be wrong b/c he did not murder. I was wrong about that too. I didn’t put the dots together until I got out from under his controlling mindfarks and recovered my ability to reason again. It took a couple of years. Then I found this site and have since discovered I was right about the sociopathy, that they don’t have to murder to be an spath. First realized he was capable of murder, he likes to instigate others to do his dirty work. But he will kill if he thinks himself entitled. ANd have realized he probably did, he detailed a murder when he killed his first cow, and killed the cow the same as he described killing. For the same reason, she had to learn to not make him mad.

I think my husbnad hits EVERY button on the spath ID list. Hits it HARD.


Geez Milo!
Chin hairs!!!! Not a Brazilian!!! OMG! Beer coming out of my left nostril! Can’t stop laughing.


Did ya do clip her toenails too? That was part of our bargain but I told my friend, if she won’t groom her toenails, I sure as hell wouldn’t either.


Once I finally identified my husband’s dominate drive, EVERYTHING fell into place. It all made sense. ALL the abuse MADE sense.

My husband’s number one driving motivation in all he does is to WIN, to be on top, to dominate, to prevail. He MUST WIN. And ONLY HE choses what WINNING means to him but it always involves destroying someone else. That’s why he’d make choices that were not in his best interest. He’s lost opportunities for HUGE income b/c he was so adamant, so determined to put someone in their place and let them know they helped sabotage their own life, b/c he LEAD Them into a trap where they lost their wife and their business, ALL b/c they challenged my husband in some way.

When we were dating, we took ballroom dancing lessons. I am musically gifted. My husband can’t clap to the beat of music if his life depended on it. He’s been told over the years what a wonderful dancer he is. But he’s not. He knows the steps, but not the beat, not the form. And I made a stupid remark, that he danced as good as I sang. He knows I can’t sing. I didn’t think a thing of it. After all, the point was to enjoy it and as long as he enjoyed it, I loved dancing with my love. 20 year later, the way he picked up all his OW, you guessed it, he was sneaking out to dance lessons. They women all LOVED him. He was charming, and since he was a bad dancer, they took him on as a project, extra practice…. a tango….etc. It was his revenge. 20 years later. HE NEVER forgot a comment and VENGANCE was his, to put me in my place, crush me with punishment for my words. Despite that I didn’t care if he had talent, b/c I thought enjoyment with my love was the object. But you see, for my husband, Enjoyment with a love was NOT HIS objective. Domination was. Control was. WINNING.


You are so naughty. I’d have spanked your lilly white too. heheheheehe. Bet she loved telling the stories about you. Sometimes ya gotta discipline at the same time you hide your laughter.


Oh Hens
Well he survived the uncivil war. But war at 13. What that must have done to him. oops my timer went off, must do my baking now. Later ya’ll. Hens, have a nice thanksgiving. I sure thank you for bein you. Has made me happy.


hens, they call it PeeKhan down heeyah. pumpkin bread outta da oven, now baking cookies. ding agin.


peekhan or peecan I like em both ~ ! yay ~! JR and Carina won on DWS – ok pumpkin time for me..


sorry. hens. i bake lots of goodies but have never baked a pecan pie. i will say i make the BEST lemon merange pie ever. and the BEST chocolate cake. and the BEST tollhouse cookies. i am NOT making any of them this thanksgiving b/c i want to be able to eat a little desert and not be tempted to stuff my face with sugar… like i usually do.


OMG….Peekhan pie is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE! And its so damn easy to make……..I gotta pretend it’s hard, so I don’t make it!!!
I also LOVE Bread pudden……..
THANK GOD my oven is broken, so no baking over here this year! 🙂

I did buy myself a present though…..but it won’t get it hooked up in time for the holidays.
When I moved, I had to sell my 48 inch Viking stove. It was a BEAST! I loved that stove! My rich boss gave it to me when they went on a trip to Italy one year…..she didn’t like the griddle, so she asked that I have that one removed and could have it, and replace it with the 48′ Viking with the grill instead….by the time she got home.
I told her with a huge smile….I thought I could get that accomplished in the next month! 🙂
My little house just couldn’t accomodate a stove that large….so with regret I sold it.
My oven went out before I moved in here……and I looked on CL and last week was able to find and get down to buy in time……a 36′ professional Thermador with 6 burners with the hood.
I’m excited to tear my kitchen apart and get it installed…..but, like all things……’ll have to wait a bit.
My furnace went out tooo………so that’s first!

Katy…..if you and I lived together…..I’d be 2000 lbs fer sure!

Ox Drover

OHHHHH! We’re on the way to Katy’s house for dessert! Yea, I think we’d all gain 50 pounds! LOL

Wow, EB what a score! I’ve been baking too, stuff to take to the encampment, and for the boys to eat when I come home every night…and 3 gallons of my special spiced cider! Yum!!!! So we will be taking off tomorrow morning to set up camp, but I’ll be home every night to take care of the dogs, ducks and piggies.

Well, you guys have a wonderful TG holiday and I’ll try to check in and see how you’re doing in the evenings when I get home—if I’m not too dead tired! (((hugs)))


It was one of the few benefits to being married to my spath. He was a good eater. I got to have a slice and he took care of the rest.
I really did like being a wife and rancher… really too bad about all the shite taht came with it though… and I’m not talking about what came from the cows.


mine is a pig too. Eating with him was like a race. If I didn’t finish my food at the same time as he did, he would reach over and start in on mine.

That didn’t last the whole 25 years though, because once he started poisoning me, he didn’t want my food anymore.


I should add that my comment about spath being a pig is not just an off-hand observation. His behavior is DIRECTLY due to his envy. He even envied my food on my plate. NOT KIDDING.

This is something I noticed from the very beginning. One day, I was eating a strawberry. A big red juicy strawberry. I walked into the laundry room, where he was working on a project with my half-eaten giant strawberry. He grabbed my wrist and directed my strawberry straight into his mouth.

Of course, I had laced it with my prescription sleeping pill. 🙂
Within 20 minutes he was dozing. I never offered him the fruit, he took it against my will. But he had, previously, told me that he was having trouble sleeping. He was very concerned it seemed. Being the control freak that he is, he would never take any drugs….

When he awoke about 12 hours later (it was a strong med), he said, “I must’ve been really sick because I’m so sleepy.”
“No honey, don’t worry, the strawberry was drugged.” I responded.
“Oh, OK” he replied before drifting off to sleep again.

That’s where he got the idea to poison me. Tit for tat, I guess.
sicko. My intent was never to hurt but only to help him.

Inadvertantly, I feel that he helped me too, by making me sick. I got off wheat, which is a poison to me. And the pain from the poison INCREASED my empathy for people who suffer.

The universe functions as it should, I guess.


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