If there is one thing that gets me argumentative it is statements like this one that appeared in a recent research paper: “non-incarcerated psychopaths have an arguably equal potential to illuminate our understanding of the emotional difficulties, such as lack of empathy and lack of conscience, which underlie psychopathy and which lead to offending behaviour.” (emphasis mine)
Now I agree that we can learn from non-incarcerated psychopaths, I wrote recently about a well designed study where sociologists conducted interviews of some. But I cannot believe that statements like the one above make it through editorial review for another reason. Researchers in psychology have spent the last 50 years and untold millions of dollars uncovering the cause of behavior. There is no mystery, we know what causes behavior!
Behavior is caused by rewards and stopped by punishment. Actually rewards cause behavior a lot better than punishment stops it in most people. That is because the brain reward system is functionally stronger than the brain punishment system for most, and especially for sociopaths/psychopaths. The rewards that cause behavior do so because they increase dopamine activity in the mesolimbic dopamine system.
Offending behavior exists and persists because it is rewarding and that reward affects the activity of the mesolimbic dopamine system. To put it bluntly, nothing but desiring/liking to offend leads to offending behavior. To say otherwise is to negate all the work that has been done in this area. The evidence is so strong that genes involved in dopamine metabolism and that system have been identified as candidate genes in the familial transmission of “offending behavior”.
I will repeat, a lack of empathy does not cause offending behavior, neither does a lack of conscience. These two may cause a person to show restraint if he is tempted to aggress against another, but it is the aggressive impulse that causes aggression. So a person with empathy and conscience can still offend if he has the inclination to do so. Furthermore, there is evidence that repeated offending erodes away empathy and conscience.
There is another source of evidence that calls into question the hypothesis that lack of empathy causes the sociopath’s behavior. That source of evidence is people with autism and autism spectrum disorders.
I recently found two very impressive discussions comparing moral agency in autism and psychopathy. The first is, Autism, Empathy and Moral Agency, a paper published in The Philosophical Quarterly (52:340, 2002) written by Dr. Jeannette Kennett, Deputy Director and Principal Research Fellow, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics, The Australian National University. Since I didn’t know to search Philosophical Quarterly for papers on psychopathy, I didn’t find that paper until I read “Moral Psychology, Volume 3, The Neuroscience of Morality: Emotion, Brain Disorders and Development” MIT Press, 2008. Dr. Kennett also has two chapters in that book. But Chapter 5, Varieties of Moral Agency: Lessons from Autism, is a discussion of Dr. Kennette’s paper by Dr. Victoria McGeer, of Princeton University’s Center for Human Values. There is a back and forth discussion of the issues raised, with several noted professors also participating.
Both sources begin their discussions by saying that moral agency has two parts two it, a thinking part and a feeling part. They trace these concepts back to philosophers Kant and Hume. Dr. Kennett concludes that Kant is right and that reason is the most important aspect of moral agency. Dr. McGeer points to emotions being important even for people with autism. I am going to summarize the arguments, then give you my own opinion.
Now like sociopathy, autism is a spectrum. A large percentage of people with autism are mentally retarded, so this discussion involves those autistic individuals who are not mentally retarded. I should point out that many sociopaths also have poor intellectual functioning. These sociopaths tend to live in prison.
Dr. Kenneth quotes the following description of autism,
The most general description of social impairment in autism is lack of empathy. Autistic people are noted for their indifference to other people’s distress, their inability to offer comfort, even to receive comfort themselves. What empathy requires is the ability to know what another person thinks or feels despite that is different from one’s own mental state at the time. In empathy one shares emotional reactions to another person’s different state of mind. Empathy presupposes amongst other things a recognition of different mental states. It also presupposes that one goes beyond the recognition of difference to adopt the other person’s frame of mind with all the consequences of emotional reactions. Even able autistic people seem to have great difficulty achieving empathy in this sense.
Autistic people also experience an “aloneness,” yet this aloneness does not bother them. They are indifferent to the presence of other people and do not require affection. One autistic adult is quoted as saying, “I really didn’t know there were other people until I was seven years old. I then suddenly realized that there were people. But not like you do, I still have to remind myself that there are people. I could never have a friend. I really don’t know what to do with other people really.”
High functioning autistic people recognize that they are very different from other people and report feeling “like aliens.”
Dr.Kenneth correctly concludes, “Both psychopaths and autistic people experience outsider status, deficiencies in social understanding and social responsiveness… Both have a tendency to treat other people as tools or instruments, (they have) a lack of strong emotional connectedness to others and impaired capacity for friendship.” She says clinicians and researchers link these impairments in both psychopathy and autism to impaired empathy. But autistic people are in fact worse off in this respect than psychopaths. Psychopaths at least can interact socially with ease and behave in a charming way.
She correctly questions, “If empathy is crucial to the development and exercise of moral agency, then why is the autistic person not worse off, morally speaking, than the psychopath?” She points out that in spite of the lack of empathy which is at the core of the disorder, “Many autistic people display moral concerns, moral feeling and a sense of duty or conscience.”
That autistic people are not antisocial is evidenced by the observation that few come to the attention of police. I did a Google news search using the terms autistic and arrest. Although there were many arrests of people for abusing those with autism, all of the arrests of autistics for aggression were for aggression that stemmed from self-defense. For example, a 10 year old boy with autism was arrested for assaulting staff at his treatment facility. The boy assaulted staff members because he was afraid and they tried to prevent his escape.
Drs. Kenneth and McGeer basically agree on the source of moral agency in those with autism, and what they say is fascinating with respect to sociopaths. The source of moral agency in autism is a preference for order and organization. Autistic people have reported that their sense of morality comes from a desire to see their world as orderly and organized. Dr. Kenneth states that this need for order gives rise to an extraordinary rationality in high functioning people with autism. She says that since morality is organized and logical that those with autism easily pick up moral principles.
I also did a search on morality in autism and can attest to several studies demonstrating normal levels of moral reasoning in autistic children who are not mentally retarded.
Drs. Kennett and McGeer also agree on the issue of the lack of moral agency shown by sociopaths/psychopaths. They both say that this group just plain doesn’t care about morality or regard moral principles as important. This is where psychopaths and autistics differ. Autistics identify with and value moral principles. Dr. Kennett states, “It is not the psychopath’s lack of empathy, which (on its own at any rate) explains his moral indifference. It is more specifically his lack of concern, or more likely lack of capacity to understand what he is doing, to consider the reasons available to him and to act in accordance with them.”
The point of disagreement of the two experts involves the relative role of emotion and reason in autistic people’s moral agency and valuation of morality. Dr. Kennett says that the autistic person is like Dr. Spock of Star Treck, and views life in purely logical terms. Since morality is logical and rational, autistics embrace it. Dr. McGeer disagrees, she states that the autistic need for order leads to an emotional connection to order and rationality. She feels that emotion does play a role in the moral lives of autistics, since she sees them as emotionally as well as rationally invested in maintaining order.
What about sociopaths/psychopaths and the need for order/organization? This disorder truly involves disorder. Psychopaths/sociopaths thrive on chaos and seem to have a dislike for order. Everywhere they go they are a source of extreme entropy as they take order and turn it into disorder. Both Drs. link the lack of appreciation for order to a lack of thoughtfulness in sociopaths/psychopaths. Sociopaths are both disordered and not fully rational or logical.
Dr. McGeer States:
This failure of reason may seem surprising. After all, our image of the psychopath is of a person who is rather good at serving his own interests without concern for the damage he does to others; hence of someone who is rather good at thinking and acting in instrumentally rational ways”¦As Dr. Carl Elliot observes, “While the psychopath seems pathologically egocentric, he is nothing like an enlightened egoist. His life is frequently distinguished by failed opportunities, wasted chances and behavior which is astonishingly self-destructive. This poor judgment seems to stem not so much from the psychopath’s inadequate conception of how to reach his ends, but from an inadequate conception of what his ends are.”
I agree with Dr. McGeer in that I believe that the emotionality associated with the need for order leads to the rationality of autistic people. The brain punishment system is relatively intact in autistics as compared to sociopaths and when an autistic person senses danger instead of being disconnected from the source of anxiety/fear, the autistic person engages thoughtfully to avoid danger (punishment).
The brain punishment/anxiety system of sociopaths is both hypofunctional and hyperfunctional in that they experience anxiety but fail to engage their thinking brains in the presence of danger. The high functioning autistic is well practiced at using his thinking brain to avoid anxiety. The psychopath rarely uses the thinking brain he has- to do anything other than get into trouble and hurt other people.
There are interesting parallels between the autistic’s use of reason to manage anxiety and normal development. It turns out that anxiety and fearfulness in the first two years of life actually predicts the development of conscience. The brain punishment system seems to be more plugged in to the rational brain in kids who are dispositionally more anxious. These kids also have a more highly developed sense of empathy later on.
I am thankful to Drs. Kenneth and McGeer for their seminal contributions to our understanding of sociopathy/psychopathy. I encourage the scholars among you to purchase their book from Amazon. However, I think they both missed a further unifying explanation for why autistics are moral and psychopaths/sociopaths are not.
That explanation involves the brain reward system, which is fundamentally different in autistics and sociopaths. Autistics do not experience social reward, maybe not even in the sexual sense. They are indifferent to relationships. The main reward autistics live for must be the love of thinking because that is all they have. I don’t see that too many are obese, so I don’t think they even turn to food for their source of pleasure. Instead their inner worlds are rich with thoughts and reason. They busy themselves with their own thoughts. Most like who they are, enjoy life and wouldn’t choose a different life if they could.
The sociopath on the other hand, is completely dependent on social reward. The sociopath cannot tolerate aloneness because he has no entertaining thought-life to fall back on. The problem with the social reward system in sociopaths is that the only social reward they experience is dominance. All of their antisocial behavior is motivated by their dominance drive. When they lie, cheat or steal it is about gaining short term interpersonal dominance over some poor unsuspecting person. Autistics can’t lie and are as indifferent to dominance reward as they are to affection reward.
Dr. Keltner and associates at UC Berkeley are engaged in important research on the effects on people of obtaining social power. It turns out that when many people get power reward they change. Self-esteem increases, empathy is suspended, and they become uninhibited and less rational. They also think more about sex and tend to use more foul language. Their moral agency is diminished.
I believe that this response to power reward is the point of connection between sociopaths and the rest of us. Sociopaths are constantly in a state of power intoxication, or are in search of their next power fix. The rest of us can manage the power reward better, but the behavior of our politicians suggests that power intoxication doesn’t only make sociopaths less rational.
I could use your help on two things this week. First, I want your opinion on the term moral agency. I have been looking for a single term that would describe the moral deficits of sociopaths. Up until now I have used the term low “moral reasoning ability” because I couldn’t find another better term. Do you think people will better connect with/comprehend the term low “moral agency” or poor “moral reasoning ability”? Actually moral agency is more precise and technically more correct, but will people get it?
The second question I have concerns successful psychopaths. When I read the autism papers, it occurred to me that successful psychopaths do one of two things that unsuccessful ones don’t do. They either have a better appreciation for order or organization, or they find someone to organize and order their lives for them. If you know a successful psychopath, can you comment on how he/she is successful in spite of the chaos he/she tends to cause?
Elizabeth Conley: Cute story about the children (SMILE).
As for successful psychos, my observation is that they frequently have an entourage doing everything for them! They exercise power and control over these clinging followers who often carry out the wishes, dreams, or orders of the S/P/N/!
SS#1 & SS#2 (both ESTPs) could do their job if required, usually when the boss was watching. They didn’t waste effort and would take advantage of anybody whenever possible. Both had a sadistic streak which was ignored or tolerated by their ’entourage’. They loved mindf^%king “the weak” for entertainment. Both had the odd habit of ’making discoveries’ (coming to unsubstantiated conclusions) about people they didn’t know and then wasting time trying to get the group to buy into these ’discoveries’. I’m not sure if the last thing was idiocy on their part or if they enjoyed the game of persuasion and persecution or both.
SS#3 & SS#4 (ENTP and XNTP) would only reveal members of their inner entourage when it was politically expedient to do so. They seemed to prefer to keep some or most of them hidden, (or imply such to keep people afraid of forming alliances against them?) unless they were a fall guy. Both had narcissistic qualities and needed to appear stronger and more intelligent than they actually were. Interestingly, both were much less willing or capable of doing their jobs themselves than were SS#1 , preferring to manipulate others into doing things which they would then take full credit for themselves. They also had much less education and experience relative to peer average than the other two, and they lied more often and more skillfully.
I’d say 3% of the people I ever worked with had enough SS characteristics to be a real pain and make work life miserable. About 10% of people are potential henchmen or wannabes, but without a psycho leader around they’re tolerable and reasonably well behaved and handled. I get along with worldbeater taskmasters, micromanagers, grumps, blowhards, touchy types, smartasses and absentee managers, as they add some color and personality to the office landscape and they’re usually fairly predictable, honest and not evil. OTOH, all of the SS’s had excellent people skills and started out as normal, civil, and very self-controlled.
OxDrover,
I read that nursing has a higher incidence of SS’s than other professions. I’m in engineering, which fortunately has less. Most of my jobs and groups have been pretty good – I even had a couple ‘animal house’ groups full of characters where there was always something nutty going on. It’s a real drag to go from wild and crazy fun group that’s like family, to one owned by a control freak psycho. One asshole can sure do a lot of damage to a good environment.
==================
Student Of Sociopathy
DEar Elizabeth,
Yea, the first mother on the block that got a spoonful of cereal down her kid was the “winner” in the “first solid food” race—I think mine were 12 or 13 days old! LOL Of course I found out later that a baby can’t digest starch until 4 months so we might as well have been feeding them saw dust. I did breast feed mine though so I didn’t have much problem with either of them as infants and my “housebreaking” them was pretty much “conditioning” with rewards and so no harsh problems.
My oldest son had bed wetting problems (for which I never shamed him) but my younger was dry at morning by 1 yr old, very unusual, but did it on his own. Didn’t potty train other wise any sooner than “normal” though, just had a good big bladder I think.
My kids never went to a conventional day care except when we lived way out in the boonies and I would take them one day a week just so they could socialize. The only tantrum my older one ever threw was when I came to get him that first day and he didn’t want to leave (I think he was 3-4) but when I told him he could come back the next week, he was OK.
I loved it when they were toddlers, everything was so new and exciting and so much fun for both them and me. I loved their language development and seeing the “lights” go on when they figured out how to do something new, or discovered some new body part or skill. They were a challenge, each one individual, not alike at all, but so much fun. I was fortunate to be home with them and have friends with kids the same ages and I never ceased to wonder at these wonderful little guys! I think I took a roll of film a week taking pictures of them, even photos of them sleeping! LOL
Ahhhhh, the memories!
Hi All!
I don’t know if hearing all this makes me feel better or worse. Talk about chaos and being off balance. This is what I live with on a daily basis. Are you sure we aren’t talking about the same S/N? Stupid me I give away all my power by telling him what I know. Yes, I’m the insane one and EVERYONE knows just how insane I am. Uh, because he tells everyone I’m insane.
I’m still stuck in the “Boo Hoo, I still love him” thing. I’ve been told to get out, but I have nowhere to go. I’m working on it, but I can only go as fast as I can. He’s not physically abusive, but most of the time I’d rather him punch me in the face than do the things he does to me emotionally.
It is ALL a game to him and he loves it. He loves watching me try to defend myself, but it’s a hopeless cause with him. There is no defending myself against an S/N. It will never EVER work. Someone asked if they do it on purpose and I believe the answer to that is not a simple yes or no answer.
They know full well what they’re doing, but can they help themselves? I don’t know, but I think they do what works for them.
They will do what we let them do to us from the very start of the relationship. They blind us with so much love and attention that we are defenseless against it. I have been paralyzed with love, fear and hatred for this man. He’s stripped me of all that I use to be once apon a time. Being a very smart woman, I ask myself “How the hell did I allow myself to get involved with this S/N?”
I take responsibility for this, but now that I’m in it, I don’t know how to get out of it. “Just leave” they all say, sure, but it’s not that easy. I’ve given up my previous life, my home, my business, my dignity, and ALL my money… and for what? There is no gratitude when it comes to these types of people. They feel they are deserving and somehow owed what they take from people like us… good, kind, loving, giving people that only want to love and be loved.
It’s a sickness. The longer we’re in it, the sicker WE become. The less able we are to make healthy decisions for ourselves, to take good care of ourselves, to LOVE ourselves. We’ve become the trapt rat in the cage and the S/N is poking his/her stick at us making us dance, making us run on the wheel to the point of exhaustion, all the while they are so incredibly amused and disgustingly proud of the fact that they have so much power over another human being.
We are nothing but pathetic little puppets in their world. We walk on eggshells hoping not to have “A look on our face” that makes them mad, not to say something that may make them fly off in a rage, not to ask for anything because we are so selfish and only think of ourselves.
Here we are, beautiful people, deserving of all the best life has to offer, but we practically beg these MFs to love us. Please, I love you. Please don’t say those horrible things. All I want to do is love you. Please let me love you. Please LOVE ME!!
The only thing I have are my books, and as far as he’s concerned, I shouldn’t even be reading them… self-help books of course. I just found out that I can actually paint. I’m good at it, but he’s so hateful that he doesn’t want me to have any talents. I’m selfish if I buy a book or some paints… with MY OWN MONEY!!
It’s all so so very sick. These are the lyrics to a song that really describes how I feel, and imagine how a lot of you have or are feeling too. It’s by Pink…
I’m lying here, on the floor where u left me
i think i took too much
i’m crying here what have you done
i thought it would be fun
Bridge
i can’t stay on ur life support there’s a shortage in the switch
i can’t stay on ur morphine cuz it’s makin’ me itch
i said i tried to call the nurse again but shes being a little bitch
but i think i’ll get out of here
chorus
where i can run just as fast as i can
to the middle of nowhere
to the middle of my frustrated fears and i swear
you’r just like a pill stead of makin me better you keep makin me ill
you keep makin me ill
Verse
I havnt moved from this spot where you left me
This must be a bad trip
oh all the other pills, they were different
Maybe i should get some help
Bridge
i can’t stay on you’r life support there’s a shortage in the switch
i can’t stay on you’r morphine cuz it’s makin’ me itch
i said i tried to call the nurse again but shes being a little bitch
i think i’ll get out of here
Chorus
where i can run just as fast as i can
to the middle of nowhere
to the middle of my frustrated fears and i swear
ur just like a pill stead of makin me better ur makin me ill
u keep makin me ill.
End of Lyrics-
Thank God you guys are all here. Before I found this site I started wondering if I really was crazy. I thought that maybe it WAS all me. My reading helps. I write may prayers and affirmations in a notebook every day. I’ve also been listening to CDs by Paul Scheele from Learning Strategies. They’ve really helped me a lot. I’m feeling stronger, but nowhere near ready to jump. I’ve lost weight (14 pounds), I’m actually making new friends, and continue painting, so it’s not as bad as it was a few months ago.
I’m finally to the point to where I can IMAGINE being without him. I couldn’t do that a month ago. Reading your posts and having your support has really helped me to stop feeling suicidal and I’m eternally grateful.
“The courage to wonder about other life-perspectives than presently held, Dear One, unprovoked by people and circumstances, especially when they may contradict lifelong convictions, takes not only a spiritual giant with a child’s curiosity, but a blazing desire for more of everything life has to offer.”
The Universe
AllPainNoGain: Hi! Thanks for posting the song by Pink, I really like it. I too have been going through the “I still love him” phase, and wondering how I got involved in the whirlwind of the whole thing. I am happy to hear you are at the point to where you can imagine being without him! I never lived with the guy I’m seeing, but I stopped calling him and was just trying to gracefully bow out of the situation with what little dignity I have left. I don’t cry in front of him, and I act like I’m just fine! Now that he has told me how sick he is I feel really bad again.
You do sound very smart! You’ll get strong enough to jump! Interesting how when we start understanding what they are doing we get stronger. A couple of months ago the nut case in my life tried the pulling away strategy “I can’t see you for a few weeks because I’m broke”… so I just said “okay!” LOL, he was on he phone and then at my door the next day… but no money!
Oops, I meant: he was on the phone.
My cat is bugging the crap out of me, I’m sitting in a large/overstuffed chair like a loveseat but it’s just for 1 person, the cas sits behind my head on the cushion while I’m on the computer and plays with my hair! Then he tries to squeeze in and sit next to me, which isn’t too bad until he starts rubbing his face on the laptop and then starts drooling. Yes, my cat drools. I can’t stand it! But I love him anyway.
Ox Drover,
“the first mother on the block that got a spoonful of cereal down her kid was the “winner” in the “first solid food” race—”
Yep. I call it the “Full Contact Sport of Competitive Parenting”. It makes Ice Hockey look tame.
Like you, mine only went to daycare for a few hours of “socialization” a week. This was while we lived oversees and I hadn’t made friends yet. We’d go in to the base childcare center. It was good childcare in a technical sense, but still a loony bin. I was glad I didn’t have to interact with them as much as the mothers on active duty did.
The institutional setting seemed to bring out the worst qualities in the kids.
I think it is good to have an open discussion about whether there are two groups of antisocial people that we may either call primary and secondary psychopaths or psychopaths and sociopaths. For all of you who believe there are two distinct groups email me at ljleedom@aol.com and I will send you the zip file I have put together.
I try to ask questions then look to research to answer the questions. To date everyone who has looked at the two disorder question has rejected the two disorder hypothesis. Even those who say that early and later onset make a difference still come to the one disorder conclusion. The evidence this is only one disorder is very strong at present. That is not to say that some subtrait like anxiety might also very in these individuals.
I will be the first to tell you when some research gives support for the two disorder model. It seems like those who are severely affected do form a separate group. The data do not show this.
It is all made worse by the fact that the term ‘Psychopath’ is not a DSM term, and thus unofficial, and that the term ‘Sociopath” was dropped by Psychologists in the 1950s, and replaced with Anti-Social Personality Disorder. This disorder embraces both. Because “Psychopath” literally means “mentally ill”, it will never be specific enough to describe any particular disorder, and will never gain popularity. “sociopath” has Freudian connotations which make it too narrow.
At this place, I use “sociopath” to partly go with the flow, partly to refer to anybody whose adult behavior is incorrigibly solidified within the Dark Triad domain. I’ll get more specific whenever I see the need to.