If there is one thing that gets me argumentative it is statements like this one that appeared in a recent research paper: “non-incarcerated psychopaths have an arguably equal potential to illuminate our understanding of the emotional difficulties, such as lack of empathy and lack of conscience, which underlie psychopathy and which lead to offending behaviour.” (emphasis mine)
Now I agree that we can learn from non-incarcerated psychopaths, I wrote recently about a well designed study where sociologists conducted interviews of some. But I cannot believe that statements like the one above make it through editorial review for another reason. Researchers in psychology have spent the last 50 years and untold millions of dollars uncovering the cause of behavior. There is no mystery, we know what causes behavior!
Behavior is caused by rewards and stopped by punishment. Actually rewards cause behavior a lot better than punishment stops it in most people. That is because the brain reward system is functionally stronger than the brain punishment system for most, and especially for sociopaths/psychopaths. The rewards that cause behavior do so because they increase dopamine activity in the mesolimbic dopamine system.
Offending behavior exists and persists because it is rewarding and that reward affects the activity of the mesolimbic dopamine system. To put it bluntly, nothing but desiring/liking to offend leads to offending behavior. To say otherwise is to negate all the work that has been done in this area. The evidence is so strong that genes involved in dopamine metabolism and that system have been identified as candidate genes in the familial transmission of “offending behavior”.
I will repeat, a lack of empathy does not cause offending behavior, neither does a lack of conscience. These two may cause a person to show restraint if he is tempted to aggress against another, but it is the aggressive impulse that causes aggression. So a person with empathy and conscience can still offend if he has the inclination to do so. Furthermore, there is evidence that repeated offending erodes away empathy and conscience.
There is another source of evidence that calls into question the hypothesis that lack of empathy causes the sociopath’s behavior. That source of evidence is people with autism and autism spectrum disorders.
I recently found two very impressive discussions comparing moral agency in autism and psychopathy. The first is, Autism, Empathy and Moral Agency, a paper published in The Philosophical Quarterly (52:340, 2002) written by Dr. Jeannette Kennett, Deputy Director and Principal Research Fellow, Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics, The Australian National University. Since I didn’t know to search Philosophical Quarterly for papers on psychopathy, I didn’t find that paper until I read “Moral Psychology, Volume 3, The Neuroscience of Morality: Emotion, Brain Disorders and Development” MIT Press, 2008. Dr. Kennett also has two chapters in that book. But Chapter 5, Varieties of Moral Agency: Lessons from Autism, is a discussion of Dr. Kennette’s paper by Dr. Victoria McGeer, of Princeton University’s Center for Human Values. There is a back and forth discussion of the issues raised, with several noted professors also participating.
Both sources begin their discussions by saying that moral agency has two parts two it, a thinking part and a feeling part. They trace these concepts back to philosophers Kant and Hume. Dr. Kennett concludes that Kant is right and that reason is the most important aspect of moral agency. Dr. McGeer points to emotions being important even for people with autism. I am going to summarize the arguments, then give you my own opinion.
Now like sociopathy, autism is a spectrum. A large percentage of people with autism are mentally retarded, so this discussion involves those autistic individuals who are not mentally retarded. I should point out that many sociopaths also have poor intellectual functioning. These sociopaths tend to live in prison.
Dr. Kenneth quotes the following description of autism,
The most general description of social impairment in autism is lack of empathy. Autistic people are noted for their indifference to other people’s distress, their inability to offer comfort, even to receive comfort themselves. What empathy requires is the ability to know what another person thinks or feels despite that is different from one’s own mental state at the time. In empathy one shares emotional reactions to another person’s different state of mind. Empathy presupposes amongst other things a recognition of different mental states. It also presupposes that one goes beyond the recognition of difference to adopt the other person’s frame of mind with all the consequences of emotional reactions. Even able autistic people seem to have great difficulty achieving empathy in this sense.
Autistic people also experience an “aloneness,” yet this aloneness does not bother them. They are indifferent to the presence of other people and do not require affection. One autistic adult is quoted as saying, “I really didn’t know there were other people until I was seven years old. I then suddenly realized that there were people. But not like you do, I still have to remind myself that there are people. I could never have a friend. I really don’t know what to do with other people really.”
High functioning autistic people recognize that they are very different from other people and report feeling “like aliens.”
Dr.Kenneth correctly concludes, “Both psychopaths and autistic people experience outsider status, deficiencies in social understanding and social responsiveness… Both have a tendency to treat other people as tools or instruments, (they have) a lack of strong emotional connectedness to others and impaired capacity for friendship.” She says clinicians and researchers link these impairments in both psychopathy and autism to impaired empathy. But autistic people are in fact worse off in this respect than psychopaths. Psychopaths at least can interact socially with ease and behave in a charming way.
She correctly questions, “If empathy is crucial to the development and exercise of moral agency, then why is the autistic person not worse off, morally speaking, than the psychopath?” She points out that in spite of the lack of empathy which is at the core of the disorder, “Many autistic people display moral concerns, moral feeling and a sense of duty or conscience.”
That autistic people are not antisocial is evidenced by the observation that few come to the attention of police. I did a Google news search using the terms autistic and arrest. Although there were many arrests of people for abusing those with autism, all of the arrests of autistics for aggression were for aggression that stemmed from self-defense. For example, a 10 year old boy with autism was arrested for assaulting staff at his treatment facility. The boy assaulted staff members because he was afraid and they tried to prevent his escape.
Drs. Kenneth and McGeer basically agree on the source of moral agency in those with autism, and what they say is fascinating with respect to sociopaths. The source of moral agency in autism is a preference for order and organization. Autistic people have reported that their sense of morality comes from a desire to see their world as orderly and organized. Dr. Kenneth states that this need for order gives rise to an extraordinary rationality in high functioning people with autism. She says that since morality is organized and logical that those with autism easily pick up moral principles.
I also did a search on morality in autism and can attest to several studies demonstrating normal levels of moral reasoning in autistic children who are not mentally retarded.
Drs. Kennett and McGeer also agree on the issue of the lack of moral agency shown by sociopaths/psychopaths. They both say that this group just plain doesn’t care about morality or regard moral principles as important. This is where psychopaths and autistics differ. Autistics identify with and value moral principles. Dr. Kennett states, “It is not the psychopath’s lack of empathy, which (on its own at any rate) explains his moral indifference. It is more specifically his lack of concern, or more likely lack of capacity to understand what he is doing, to consider the reasons available to him and to act in accordance with them.”
The point of disagreement of the two experts involves the relative role of emotion and reason in autistic people’s moral agency and valuation of morality. Dr. Kennett says that the autistic person is like Dr. Spock of Star Treck, and views life in purely logical terms. Since morality is logical and rational, autistics embrace it. Dr. McGeer disagrees, she states that the autistic need for order leads to an emotional connection to order and rationality. She feels that emotion does play a role in the moral lives of autistics, since she sees them as emotionally as well as rationally invested in maintaining order.
What about sociopaths/psychopaths and the need for order/organization? This disorder truly involves disorder. Psychopaths/sociopaths thrive on chaos and seem to have a dislike for order. Everywhere they go they are a source of extreme entropy as they take order and turn it into disorder. Both Drs. link the lack of appreciation for order to a lack of thoughtfulness in sociopaths/psychopaths. Sociopaths are both disordered and not fully rational or logical.
Dr. McGeer States:
This failure of reason may seem surprising. After all, our image of the psychopath is of a person who is rather good at serving his own interests without concern for the damage he does to others; hence of someone who is rather good at thinking and acting in instrumentally rational ways”¦As Dr. Carl Elliot observes, “While the psychopath seems pathologically egocentric, he is nothing like an enlightened egoist. His life is frequently distinguished by failed opportunities, wasted chances and behavior which is astonishingly self-destructive. This poor judgment seems to stem not so much from the psychopath’s inadequate conception of how to reach his ends, but from an inadequate conception of what his ends are.”
I agree with Dr. McGeer in that I believe that the emotionality associated with the need for order leads to the rationality of autistic people. The brain punishment system is relatively intact in autistics as compared to sociopaths and when an autistic person senses danger instead of being disconnected from the source of anxiety/fear, the autistic person engages thoughtfully to avoid danger (punishment).
The brain punishment/anxiety system of sociopaths is both hypofunctional and hyperfunctional in that they experience anxiety but fail to engage their thinking brains in the presence of danger. The high functioning autistic is well practiced at using his thinking brain to avoid anxiety. The psychopath rarely uses the thinking brain he has- to do anything other than get into trouble and hurt other people.
There are interesting parallels between the autistic’s use of reason to manage anxiety and normal development. It turns out that anxiety and fearfulness in the first two years of life actually predicts the development of conscience. The brain punishment system seems to be more plugged in to the rational brain in kids who are dispositionally more anxious. These kids also have a more highly developed sense of empathy later on.
I am thankful to Drs. Kenneth and McGeer for their seminal contributions to our understanding of sociopathy/psychopathy. I encourage the scholars among you to purchase their book from Amazon. However, I think they both missed a further unifying explanation for why autistics are moral and psychopaths/sociopaths are not.
That explanation involves the brain reward system, which is fundamentally different in autistics and sociopaths. Autistics do not experience social reward, maybe not even in the sexual sense. They are indifferent to relationships. The main reward autistics live for must be the love of thinking because that is all they have. I don’t see that too many are obese, so I don’t think they even turn to food for their source of pleasure. Instead their inner worlds are rich with thoughts and reason. They busy themselves with their own thoughts. Most like who they are, enjoy life and wouldn’t choose a different life if they could.
The sociopath on the other hand, is completely dependent on social reward. The sociopath cannot tolerate aloneness because he has no entertaining thought-life to fall back on. The problem with the social reward system in sociopaths is that the only social reward they experience is dominance. All of their antisocial behavior is motivated by their dominance drive. When they lie, cheat or steal it is about gaining short term interpersonal dominance over some poor unsuspecting person. Autistics can’t lie and are as indifferent to dominance reward as they are to affection reward.
Dr. Keltner and associates at UC Berkeley are engaged in important research on the effects on people of obtaining social power. It turns out that when many people get power reward they change. Self-esteem increases, empathy is suspended, and they become uninhibited and less rational. They also think more about sex and tend to use more foul language. Their moral agency is diminished.
I believe that this response to power reward is the point of connection between sociopaths and the rest of us. Sociopaths are constantly in a state of power intoxication, or are in search of their next power fix. The rest of us can manage the power reward better, but the behavior of our politicians suggests that power intoxication doesn’t only make sociopaths less rational.
I could use your help on two things this week. First, I want your opinion on the term moral agency. I have been looking for a single term that would describe the moral deficits of sociopaths. Up until now I have used the term low “moral reasoning ability” because I couldn’t find another better term. Do you think people will better connect with/comprehend the term low “moral agency” or poor “moral reasoning ability”? Actually moral agency is more precise and technically more correct, but will people get it?
The second question I have concerns successful psychopaths. When I read the autism papers, it occurred to me that successful psychopaths do one of two things that unsuccessful ones don’t do. They either have a better appreciation for order or organization, or they find someone to organize and order their lives for them. If you know a successful psychopath, can you comment on how he/she is successful in spite of the chaos he/she tends to cause?
Dear Liane,
Thank you for your comments, and for posting so much research on the disorders. I too wish the 1 or 2 debate would be settled, and I also wish the “name the disorder(s)” game would be settled once and for all. LOL
If professionals can’t agree what the problem is, or even the NAME FOR IT, how on earth do they think that the general public, even the educated general public, can understand it?
Thank you again, so much!
I use “psychopath” mainly because Hare does, and that is the term I “think” about it in. I would be glad to change it to ANYTHING that everyone could agree on!
Dear Elizabeth,
Well, fortunately, except for early solid food feeding I didn’t engage in much of the “competitive” sport of “parenting.” LOL I never got into the “games” of “my kid is taking more culturally uplifting activities than yours” or “my kid is excelling at more sports than yours” as we lived in the country and there weren’t a lot of those things available then so I never did the “soccer mom” routines! LOL
My kids grew up with lots of wide open spaces to explore, lots of camping out, riding horses, hunting and fishing, then later, flying airplanes. My P son played football in highschool one year, but I didn’t encourage it as I am TOTALLY against high school foot ball because of the many life-long injuries that are received. I know I may stir up a hornet’s nest here by “sports” fans, but sports that routinely leave lasting injuries are barbaric in my mind. I worked in Sports Medicine when I worked with the orthopaedic surgeon and saw HORRIBLE LIFE LONG DISABILITIES from multiple stress fractures in YOUNG kids whose parents pushed them to Olympic level gymnastics, and other sports. By 24-25 years old they were crippled with arthritis. Ditto football players. Joe Nameth (hhow ever you spell his name) was interviewed and he is in horrible pain on a daily basis from his days in professional sports….one player now is having a hip surgery and others other surgeries. Just isn’t worth it to me. Play for FUN but as a “business” (and that starts at high school level I think) it STINKS. To say NOTHING of the huge amount of money that is sunk into college sports when the achaedimic end gets pennies compared to sports. The millions and millions of dollars that are paid to the coaches of college teams when the profs are not paid well at all. Priorities all wrong I think….but that is just me!
If you have to have “sports,” at least I think we should abuse animals instead of our children! Not that I am FOR abusing animals, because extreme sports DO abuse animals, but if it is a choice of children or animals being abused, I would rather abuse the animals than my child for the “wholesome entertainment” of the “gladiator mentality” folks.
Sports fans?
I played basketball in the 7th grade. We were in another school’s locker room sizing them up saying “You don’t look so bad”, when they replied: “Wait ’til you see our center”. Then in walked a 6’2” 200+ pound 13 year old man. In that game they’d run the ball down the court and wait for behemoth to arrive, who’d just dump the ball into the basket. Again and again. We got creamed. Many years later, behemoth played pro football as a lineman. Today, he’s had over 30 surgeries including amputation of a leg, and is crippled from football. He works as an injury representative for the players union.
Contact sports is risky, for sure.
My step dad was a great basketball coach and seldom had an injury to his students but that was 50 years + ago and sports was more a “fun” thing for the kids than an obscession like it seems to be today. Even watching a “little league” game the parents seem to take it like “kids” acting out.
Even out here in the boonies now the “soccer moms” drive their kids to events of one sort or another 4-5 nights a week and weekends.
I know what you mean about the 6’2″ 13 year old, I have seen a few of those myself. It is a shame he sacrificed his body for a “game” of “business.”
I’ve seen “gymnists’ ” moms insist a kid go back to an event with a fractured ankle in 1-2 weeks and be furious that the 12 yr old’s career is “ruined” by missing that one event. When you look at the x-rays of gymnists’ backs by the time they are 18, every vertebra has had a stress fracture and most are due for major pain and disability by the time they are out of their teens or into early 20s. The young bodies just can’t take that kind of pounding as well as starvation in addition to over exercise. Many of them actually don’t reach puberty correctly due to lack of fat in their bodies. I am glad my kids didn’t participate any more than they did (my P-son that one season, but he was a bench warmer) I’m ALL FOR plenty of exercise but in a safe and sane way, NOT contact sports or one in which the child is put into extreme physical stress and high impact which their bones are not ready for.
Having worked in ortho as well as head and spinal cord injury for several years, when my sons wanted to do motor cycle riding (and YES they ARE FUN!) or ride bulls in rodeos, I told them that the way we would do it (as long as they kept their feet under my table) was that I would take a base ball bat and break all their bones, and we would skip the part where they got on the bull/motorcycle. LOL
Of course, P-son had to steal a motorcycle while he was still living at home (and keep it hidden of course) and ride it to school to show off, one of those BIG crotch rockets, all shiny and red. I’m suprised he didn’t steal a bull to ride too! LOL
Non-P sons are careful drivers and don’t ride either motorcycles or bulls! I used to ride motorcycles, but finally got smart so don’t do it any more. I do ride horses, but not jumping (Christopher Reeve reminds me that jumping horses fall) and not broncs any more, and not “hell bent for leather” sports on horses either. I don’t live in terror of being hurt doing anything, but I try to use caution and good sense in what I do and don’t take UN-necessary risks with fun or work either.
I’m the say way about the Ps now as well, NO UN-necessary risks in dealing with them. Spot them as early as possible, get them as far away from you and your business as possible and NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM, even when you think they aren’t around! Just ’cause you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they ain’t out to get ya!
Oxy says: NO UN-necessary risks in dealing with them. Spot them as early as possible, get them as far away from you and your business as possible and NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM, even when you think they aren’t around!
Just ’cause you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they ain’t out to get ya!
I agree with this last part in my life with the S, to believe the paraniod feeling when S is gone out of sight and is very quiet. A contemplation game I think it is. Last night at midnight the text buzzed while I was setting the clock. The text popped up, something about a vampire. I caught the last word, and did not read it. S must be reading himself bedtime stories. I turned the lights out and tried not to give it another thought, and then I thought boy, how desperate he is to talk of vampires, ie. Was he aware I was going to sleep and wanted to make me very uncomfortable? Yep.
I laughed and rolled over, not paranoid, but knowing he exists and still is out there with having plenty of nightime, all night to be up without working now. Never ceases to amaze me. Alaways a new angle. This one I never heard before.
looking at all these articles together, I have the following suggestion. Terminology is very important and it seems that the terms sociopath, psychopath and antisocial personality disorder are used very loosely and synonymously here.
Historically, psychopath was used to describe any genetic or biological factor that acts to prevent an individual’s full normal development. the term became associated with a list of personality characteristics described by Cleckley in the late 40s and this was subsequently refined and expanded by Robert Hare who created an updated list of descriptors and developed a test to measure them.
Historically, sociopathy was used to refer to any social or environmental factor that prevented an individuals full development. although the term is sometimes still used in this context, it is also often used synonymously with psychopathy, leading to confusion
Antisocial personality disorder is the official term used by psychiatrists in diagnosing patients. Its emphasis is not on personality characteristics, rather its emphasis is on behaviour
not all people diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder also meet the criteria of psychopaths and conversely, not all psychopaths will qualify for the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. In a prison population, between 50 to 80% will be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder based on the criteria however, measured by Hare’s test only about 15% will be found to be psychopathic. in the general population, about 3 or 4% would qualify for antisocial personality disorder and about 1% would qualify for psychopathy
the historical view of psychopathy as a biological or genetic defect — and not a learned behavior — not something that is acquired — appears to be substantiated by modern research. Psychopaths appear to vary both in terms of their personality characteristics and their neurophysiological responses. Recent research has begun to document various degrees of brain pathology, for example, reductions in prefrontal gray matter volume, associated with these diminished responses.
it is also now recognized that psychopathic characteristics can be reliably seen and measured in children and that adolescent
psychopathy carrys forth into adulthood — it is a predictor of later adult psychopathy
the view today is that psychopathy is an evolutionary adaptation that is consistently present in a small percentage of the population. It is extremely consistent in individuals, however, its expression can be modulated by factors such as age and environment — that is to say, the degree the underlying trait that is expressed may be open to some modification
Dear Check,
Yes, I agree with what you said above, I think most of us here agree with what you have said. I am not sure if you have gone back through the articles in the archives here but if you haven’t, I suggest you do so. 99.9% of everything you said here is in one or more articles here.
We agree that there should be a concensus in terms for what they are called, but unfortunately, various researchers use various “definitions” and there is no concensus even among professionals. The general public sees “Psychopaths” as Ted Bundy or the BTK killer, and yet, they don’t have any idea how to “spot” one.
There is some disagreement here (but no rabid disagreement) about if there is one kind or two, one socially (only, no genetics, and can be helped or cured) and one kind that is primarily genetic and can’t be controlled or cured at least in the adult stage.
Whatever term you give it, though, for victims, the term TOXIC covers a “multitude of sins” and takes in other Cluster B disorders as well. A “definite” legal/clinical diagnosis doesn’t really, in the basic bottom line, make any diffference in how we must respond to what they do in order to heal and get away from them.
If you’ve had your arm torn off by a lion, or a cougar, it does’t really matter if it is a North American variety or an African variety, you must know that “big cats” are dangerous and how to avoid them and how to treat your wounds. Knowing the brain structure of the big cats isn’t necessary as long as you basicly know that they are stalking predators and kill with a bite. Maybe that analogy isn’t all that great, but I am sure you get the idea.
Since we are “attack victims” and not researchers, only a basic knowledge of the general behavior patters so that in the future we can avoid them, and also realize that there is NO HOPE that they can be “domesticated” and rendered NON-TOXIC…that learned, we can then get back to working on our own lives and healing.
Glad you are here by the way. Thanks for sharing.
Check: You’ve been doing a lot of research, and that’s great! One of the challenges with evaluating adolescents is that the development of their prefrontal cortex — the judgment center — lags behind other brain functions, leaving them, for example, at the mercy of their impulses.
I believe the experts generally agree that genetics contribute about 50% to the development of a psychopathic individual Twin studies show an 80% correspondence — that if one identical twin is psychopathic, there is an 80% chance that the other twin is also psychopathic.
I also understand that since the DSM is a committee-driven “edict,” the final terminology depends on votes. I understand from “unnamed sources” that “psychopathic” was edged out by a very small margin.
I guess that your reasons for finding this site may include some personal turmoil, and for that I am sorry. I am glad to see that you are doing your own review of research that can help you filter through all the information, and contribute to this ongoing dialogue.
Oxy: We’ve been researching them “in the wild.” You said, “We agree that there should be a concensus in terms for what they are called, but unfortunately, various researchers use various “definitions” and there is no concensus even among professionals. The general public sees “Psychopaths” as Ted Bundy or the BTK killer, and yet, they don’t have any idea how to “spot” one.
WE have a better idea of how to spot one IN THE WILD! And our work on the site here is about educating people on how to spot them in bars, on websites, in the dentist’s office, at the law firm, in the admissions office at school, swooping in on a white horse to save us from our tawdry lives, or coercing us into rejecting the REAL “white knight” because they’ve got their hooks into us.
In our free-for-all discussions, we’re helping each other see. The researchers don’t have the real-life info!
the view today is that psychopathy is an evolutionary adaptation
My personal belief is that in pre-Neolithic hunter-gatherer times, extreme personalities (specialists) such as the natural born hunter/warrior were valued as long as their contribution outweighed the cost of keeping them around. But once they were deemed a hindrance or danger to the tribe’s survival (an ’evil spirit’) they were banished, which would have been a fate worse than death in those incredibly difficult and brutish times. Or else they’d destroy the tribe. When agriculture and animal domestication arrived, so did the size of the tribe. And as population grew, it also became increasingly difficult to determine the line between useful warrior and useless sociopath, and sociopathy grew and evolved.