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By February 6, 2008 82 Comments Read More →

Might there be physical consequences to life with a psychopath?

Several readers of Lovefraud have mentioned medical problems that arose in their lives with psychopaths. These readers are convinced that the psychological stress and pain of these relationships translated themselves into physical ailments. Some of these symptoms disappeared when the psychopath disappeared, some didn’t. Here are a few recent comments:

When I parted from him, physically I felt so raw and sore, I looked like I had been in a boxing ring. My health was poor and I couldnt even have the osteopath touch me, I said I felt like I had been stabbed all over. All though he never laid a finger on me, he gave me plenty of mental and emotional abuse.

I have a feeling its 2 years of being TIRED and worn to a pulp emotionally by his wordy games.

sleep loss is another big thing ive experienced since this s path during and after i still have trouble sometimes sleeping, like my mind will not shut off. and during being with the s apth i was trying to work out what the hell was going on and trying to work things ou in my head stopped me from sleeping well. which makes your head even more clouded.

Talking about physical consequences of being around bad stuff for seven years in my case, I don’t know if this applies but there is one thing that makes me think is the fact that my blood pressure got so much better. I used to have high blood pressure during the last four years with him. Since I left him for almost six months I don’t even need to take medication and I’m sleeping so much better these days.

Anytime we are trying to fix someone else, we are off track. I just work on me now. If I see someone other than me that needs work”¦ I feel TIRED. No can do!

Dr. Steve: I would so much appreciate a forthcoming post about physical consequences or PTSD of an association with a Sociopath. Nearly 5 months hence, and past the “why” and figuring out the “puzzle” (identifying him as a sociopath and doing intensive investigation/research as to who he really is and what he has done), there is still a lot of emotional pain

Have you noticed anything similar? How do you understand/make sense of this ‘translation’? Have you managed to deal with such an ailment or overcome it? How exactly

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In future posts I will write more on the interaction between experience, the mind, and the body. I will present some ideas of how/why it is that a interpersonal situation can have bad effects not only on one’s mind but on one’s body. Also, I will introduce some exciting research on what you can do to help repair the damage psychological distress mave have contributed to your body.


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82 Comments on "Might there be physical consequences to life with a psychopath?"

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I can SO relate to this. My s never laid a hand on me, either. Yet, I stayed sore and had horrible muscle spasms all the time! I was in my chiropractor’s office at least once a week. He’s been gone over a year now and I’ve seen my chiro three times since. My s also displayed strong symptoms of being a sex addict. I didn’t believe that he was cheating on me but always had it in the back of my mind that he would if I didn’t give him everything he wanted. I should have listened to my gut. He needed my full attention 24/7 and nearly consumed my soul. I had to do everything for him right down to his thinking! But he proclaimed such great love for me, I felt guilty if I didn’t give him what he wanted. And, imagine this…if I denied him sex ever now and again…he wanted it at least once a day…I’d awake from nightmares of him leaving me or cheating on me. As it turned out, he left me for a younger woman after having known her for 3 weeks. After he told me that he was leaving and swore that it had nothing to do with another woman…he stayed at my house for 3 weeks and he was purely evil! He was a complete and total stranger to the person that I thought I knew him as. I couldn’t eat nor sleep and he didn’t express one ounce of concern! I dropped 10 pounds during that 3 weeks! It’s odd that when I did indeed find out that it was another woman and told him that he HAD to leave…I felt a sense of relief although I was deeply hurt. Of course, I spent months trying to figure out just who he was and how I could have been so deceived. I finally sought out a counselor and when I told him my story…he didn’t hesitate in telling me that my ex was a sociopath as well as a sex addict. I knew then that I was off the hook and had no reason to feel belittled that I’d been left for a woman 18 years my junior or that I had done something wrong. It was like the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders. I now feel great physically and people tell me that I look so much less stressed and happier than when I was with him. S’s will certainly take a toll on us. It’s funny, the entire time that I was with him, I sensed that there was something that just wasn’t quite “right” about him but I just couldn’t figure him out. I’m so thankful that I now understand and that he removed himself from my life. However, I feel really sorry for the girl he’s with now…she believes with all her heart that she’s the one…although he used up and left at least 4 other women in the same manner he left me–two with his children that he hasn’t even tried to get to know. He left them both when the children were very young–I suppose they took too much attention away from him.

I have been struggling with bizarre physical symptoms since the day I got involved with my P until today two years after starting NC.
Before he even pounced but when he was closing in and paying me so much attention I started to lose weight rapidly. Within 5 weeks of the affair I had lost 7kg and my face was haggard and wrinkled (according to my friends) although I thought I looked fantastic. He used to brag that he had changed me completely. For the entire 11 month affair I NEVER slept properley, could not sit still for more than 5 minutes, developed claustrophobia and could never choke down a meal. I existed on coffee and biscuits.
After it ended, the insomnia continued and I developed severe cystitis ( sometimes a weird sexual feeling) that has never improved. I have had every test but nothing pysically wrong can be found and I have come to the conclusion that it is a manifestation of trauma. I can eat now and have put a lot of weight back on.
When I realised what had happened to me I wrote down how I felt during and after. It’s a long list but I would be interested to know if any of you have felt like this. Many of the symptoms appear to be very similar to how someone would feel if they were addicted to meth and withdrawal. Given that I now know he sells drugs, I have often wondered if he gave me drugs in my coffee without my knowledge. My friends are sceptical but if it never ever occurred to someone that was what was being done to them, would they recognise the effects? I’ll probably never know.
During the affair;
Overwhelming feeling of euphoria
Insomnia
Dramatic weight loss
Dizziness
Overpowering feeling of love towards him to the exclusion of everything else
Obsessional thoughts of him 24 hours a day
Feeling excited and terrified at the same time.
Feeling hot and shivering at the same time
Feeling that my destiny is beyong my control
Chronic pain in my back and legs
Claustrophobia
Panic attacks
Depression
Fear of losing him

After NC
Craving to contact him
Depression
Severe anxiety and panic
Overwhelming feeling of fear
Chronic back and leg pain
Severe cystitis and Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome
Dizziness and fainting
Nightmares
Flashbacks
Emotional numbness
Feeling completely lost
A feeling of dread at seeing him or the OW
Intense rage and thoughts of revenge

These feeling are subsiding now and are not so intense but I haven’t been able to conquer them all. I live in SEAsia where there is no therapy available so I’ve had to treat myself through education and anti-anxiety/depression meds.
Swallow

Some years ago, for just a few months I worked at a job where I believe there was at least one… and then as well some other unbalanced and disturbed individuals who went out of their way to make trouble for everyone, and particularly me. It was a text book case of workplace mobbing/bullying. It interfered with my job, and their jobs, but for some reason, even though these people caused productivity loss, and damaged equipment at the workplace, though the manager saw the problem, the owners refused to do anything about it. (I actually started to wonder if the problem person or persons were blackmailing the owners or something.)

During those short months, I had multiple weird medical problems in the middle of summer. I caught a summer flu that year (something that usually doesn’t happen to me, and was more unusual because nobody I knew was sick), I had multiple migraines (which also I usually don’t get in summer), a few other medical problems, and I developed backaches, which I never had any problems with my back ever before… that would ease up considerably on the weekends, and then come back full force on Monday – to the point of where I was walking like an elderly person hunched over a great deal of the time. I had a very decent chair at work, and wasn’t doing any physical labor, and there was no mishap or strain I could say happened before they started, so there was no real explanation for it.
Within 3-4 days of leaving that job, the backaches disappeared completely, as if I’d never had a back problem at all.
I went about a year after that with no migraines at all.
I didn’t catch another cold/flu until the next winter – when there were dozens of people sick, and it wasn’t that unusual.
And I didn’t have another back problem until a couple of years later – which was linked directly to a strain, and cleared up in a week or so, and wasn’t anything like the chronic back problem I had for over 2 months while I was working that job.

My belief is that the brain/mind and body are very much linked. That one’s mind and body will send signals, in whatever way they can, to tell you that the situation you’re in isn’t good.

And there’s plenty of scientific evidence, from multiple reputable medical studies, that suggests stress does indeed have physical effects and contributes to physical ailments and diseases.

So in my opinion, dealing with any type of abusive characters, socially unstable people, or corrupt loved ones, certainly can have an detrimental effect on one’s physical well being.
And the anecdotal stories I’ve heard since looking into these matters, and talking to other people who’ve been in these types of stressful situations with problematic people, cemented my belief.

the entire time i was with him i had the same nightmare every night. i couldn’t sleep. after he left i had it for a while until i went to a therapist and then it went away.

At the outset of our relationship, when I was ignoring my better instinct that said he was too good to be true, I started having migraines. They’ve stopped since it was over.

I’ve recently started having nightmares about murdering him in cold blood and trying to hide the evidence, not sorry I’ve done it, but terrified someone will find out that I could do such a thing. I hope I couldn’t really, if presented with the opportunity. That’s why these dreams are so terrifying to me. Am I the same sort of horrible person?

I lost weight- never could I lose weight.

I didn’t sleep. Now I sleep and am fighting to keep weight off.

I always felt ill-at-ease…even now their presence makes my
heart jump.

I stay as far as I can- but somethings are unavoidable.

I recall once I was so exhausted and jittery – I looked like what a meth addict must look like.

I think it is because I allowed the psycho’s response to me ( am on their good side or not) to dictate my day. Someone I know who had a r/s with the psycho said the same thing- sadly they are still enmeshed with the psycho.

It was like I was a puppet.

In 15 years with the P, I suffered from bouts of Anorexia, which would pretty much go away without need of intervention during a separation or an outright breakup.

Upon a reconciling after a 9 mos separation, he encouraged a worsening of the Anorexia by suggesting that I was thin but not toned-I should go to the gym and followed that up by showing me his collection of pornography and telling me to compare myself to the women in the photos.

The Anorexia became so severe I almost died from it several times in the first 2 years I was back-it was the first time I was not able to recover from it on my own -it took 6 years to recover.

Each time I made progress and began to gain weight, he would intentionally undermine my progress while simultaneously berating me for not recovering, accusing me of selfishly impacting his life with my eating disorder. Multiple Sclerosis also developed at the same time. Insomnia for 5 years straight along with continual hypervigilence.

For me, it was a combination of direct and intentional undermining of my health and well being along with the effects of the ambient abuse and induced stress which resulted in serious illness.

I believe there was some serious Munchausen’s By Proxy being perpetrated, as he sought attention from everyone he knew 24/7 about my anorexia and the toll it was taking on him having to put up with it.

With each relapse tho, I kept trying to gain weight-I refused to let the relapses prevent me from continuing to strive for progress-that kept me alive but the only way I was able to recover was to get out.

After 3 years out I am plagued by constant nightmares still and insominia due to fear of sleeping/MS symptoms which flare up due to the stress from the nightmares and the lack of sleep-still working thru it but the P definately gave the gift of ill health that kept on giving…nice legacy.
-Stunned

I too have been looking at this site for quite awhile. My ex.psycho. letf me after seven years and then after only one year of being married! I had lost thirty five pounds and was down to 88 pounds! I looked like an old, washed up rag-hag woman. I was always sick! Allergies, colds, plurasy, terrible migrains…just constantly sick! Plus I looked horrible!
He tried to get me to sell my house that has a hair salon next to it (that’s how I make my living). When it wasn’t a big money maker–he tried and tried to get me to sell it…he even caused hardships with my neighbors to try to get me to leave (although they were always antisemites!) After knowing I would not sell…my house with my business…big fight! He screamed at me and said how I should “work for someone else, like he did (he’s a carpenter/project manager and once owned his own framing company with his first wife and had ended up with major tax leins ) after all “I had to give up my business and work for someone else!” Oh, did I mention he built this little salon for me to make my living? So anyway, since my credit was so good I had mortgage people calling me to refinance my house–and since we were now married, I thought it right to put his name on my house to show my commitment to him. This nice mortgage specialist lady took his vitals (social security number and info.) and called me back to tell me her boss would not let his name on my mortgage because he had these tax leins…I told her I knew of the tax leins and married him in spite of them (I lived with him for all those years prior–dealt with his child support, bad credit..etc.) and thought that since the state was attatching his pay check that it looked like he wasn’t reniging on his part that it would be fine. She then explained that, “NO MY BOSS WILL NOT PUT HIS NAME ON YOUR MORTGAGE ELLEN! tHEY JUST WILL NOT DO IT!” I then asked her if she would explain this to my ex.? He got on the phone and told her that “if I can’t get my name on her house, how about I get forty thousand dollars to put a new kitchen and bathroom upstairs–but you put in my hand from the bank forty thousand dollars and then you take that money that you hand me, and PUT IT ONTO THE END OF HER HOUSE PAYMENT!” Wow. That lady on the other end of the phone after I got back on, I have no idea what I said but I only remember that I had told her- he had left me twice in two months, even got his own apartment and still kept coming back to me on the guise of “working it out” WITHIN TWO HOURS LATER (after first EVER anal sex -WHICH WAS DEVOID OF ANY LOVE only cruelty) HE LEFT ME. Good fucking riddence! But boy was I sickly! I was on all kinds of medicine and I haven’t been on any since! IT WAS TRUELY LIKE I WAS A METH ADDICT! I mean, I was on all kinds of sinus, allergy medications! I would walk the streets at three a.m. with my dog because I was so “sick.” He also did smoke pot and get himself an amp. and guitar (on my credit card) and found some guy to “jam” with…I went to this guys house to listen to his music…and I was shocked to see how different and high his eyes looked! (Then these men from customes came to my salon and asked all kinds of questions ! This was one month before he left me….So what I am trying to get at here is, I DID show my good customers/friends our wedding pictures from a year before he left and they all mostly said that his eyes were blank and devoid of emotion and any happiness! Like it was long gone way before we were married! But ALL these people were saying they were shocked too, because he showed such devotion towards me–calling me throughout the day and appoligizing about our fight (which I still don’t know what the hell we were fighting about! But he would appoligize saying how he was sorry–then come home and it would be like a jekyle and Hyde –who knew what it was–he’d change or be whatever I wanted so he could get my credit and money–giving me $200- per week and by the end of the week , twenty dollars here and ten dollars there–it would be all gone by the end of the week….was he the psychopath–the worst of the worst kind or was it the pot or what–or was It my fault trying to get my business going or –shoot, he did this same thing to his first wife! Now he’s with a women who wears long skirts (which he said to me how he hated!) and she is very fat and waddles due to a back injury (she’s got a disability suit case going as i write this!) She is also a book keeper type/CPA and helped him get out of his exorbitant tax leins and even helping him get his credit back by buying a car with him…she has alot more property than me–so I think he’ll stay–she seems to think he wouldn’t ever do what he did to me, to her…he just fell out of love! (Four hours before he left, he told me how much he loved me and he was so sorry for everything) Whatever! WILL I EVER GET OVER THIS MONSTER–WHAT HE DID? It’s been almost four years now! Ellen

Dr Steve,

Thanks for your reply. I find this blog incredibly helpful and informative. Can you or anyone recommend some online councillors/therapists?
Swallow

Dr. Steve or SOMEONE, please someone help me! I feel so frustrated right now. My ex s left me a little over a year ago for a younger woman that we both knew although things seemed near perfect with us up to that point. He had been seeing her for 3 weeks. I was devastated and felt I had lost the love of my life and my best friend. After he left, his friends came forward to tell me that he had had numerous sexual encounters with other women nearly throughout our entire marriage, and that he had always been this way in any relationship he had ever had. I was blown away! I could understand that he met and fell in love with another woman and decided that the grass might be greener on the other side, but I could not understand how a man could have sex with all these different women and then come home, treat me like a princess, tell me how beautiful I was and how much he loved me “from the bottom of his heart” and want sex from me every day in spite of what he was doing.

Once he left, he made himself nearly invisible. Making contact with him was impossible! I filed for a divorce immediately and was forced to communicate the details of the divorce…when and where he needed to go to sign the papers, etc. through his girlfriend’s myspace page. The girlfriend and I developed a relationship of sorts and communicated regularly. Since I’m old enough to be her mother, I felt inclined to tell her the things that I was learning about him along the way. I honestly felt sorry for her. She believes that she is the love of his life and that he is “changing” for her.

The breakup of our marriage had eaten at me in a way that no other breakup ever had. I’ve been married twice prior and experience being cheated on, beaten by an abusive alcoholic, etc. and recovered from all that a healthy person; however, this breakup seemed so bizarre and much different. Intuition usually tells us when something is going on…I had no clue. I was left suddenly and in a total state of shock.

I finally sought the help of a professional counselor. I knew I had to be honest with him in order to get to the bottom of what happened. I just really couldn’t decide if I was a jilted lover or a victim. I knew I felt more like a victim. I told my counselor my story. One of a “perfect” storybook love story as well as things I saw about my ex as being problemmatic, i.e. his overwhelming constant need for sex and attention from me and his extreme insecurities. I also expressed my concerns about his having two children that he had never really tried to communicate with. One being 16 and the other 12. My counselor didn’t hesitate to tell me that he felt my ex was a sociopath as well as a sex addict. He assured me that I had done everything right–I worked to hold my marriage together, showed my husband respect and tried to help him grow as a person. He was very immature, had no credit, was a total pothead and claimed that he wanted me to help him gain the respect of others. I cleaned him up by buying him new clothes, decent vehicles to drive, and taught him about class issues. He was a musician and played in a band. I supported his desire to do this and often bragged about his talent.

I’ve read that sociopaths seek out nurturing people who are in specific helpful fields. I have worked for a nonprofit organization for over 25 years that addresses social justice issues. So, his lack of success in life I perceived as his being the victim of misfortunate circumstances and the lack of opportunity. I am also a very nurturing person. My ex came to me at a time when my only child had just left home for the first time and I, indeed, was suffering from “empty nest” syndrome. I treated him like a baby by petting him to death and dotting on him. The girlfriend is a medical assistant.

I had red flags during our marriage. He made inappropriate comments to a young girl that worked at a McDonald’s near our house and the girl was terrified of him–I found out and confronted him. He said he was just playing around with her. I had to remove him from the property of my work place for making inappropriate comments by telling one of my co-workers that he thought she was sexy and asking her if she’d like to “smoke one” with him. Very embarassing. I was in total charge of the organization at that time. This incidence nearly caused a sexual harassment lawsuit. He convinced me that he really didn’t mean it like it sounded. He also called his brother’s wife up whom he had had an encounter or two with prior to our marriage and his brother’s to her, and told her that he was going to sneek over there when his brother was at work and have his way with her. When I confronted him, he said that he was only reminiscing with her and that she was only trying to cause problems. I believe every word he said.

I’ve become obsessed with convincing the girlfriend who has helped him buy a doublewide that is now situated on his mother’s scrub farm that she needs to beware of him. I guess he’s convincing her that I “want him back”. I’m trying to protect this girl from the emotional and financial rape that I suffered. She says that she knows he did horrible evil things when he was married to me and that he has problems but believes that he is changing for her. She says even if they break up that she’ll still be there as his friend because she wants to help him and support him with his problem. My exchanges with her got really nasty today out of pure frustration on my part. He’s told her horrible lies about our marriage and she believes him. I know the healthiest thing for me to do is just to stop trying to warn her. I honestly think the girl believes that I am a nutcase. If she only knew….she’d understand that I’m far from the nutcase. Please advise me. I know I need to cut off all contact with her and I guess let her learn the hard way but it’s like I’m screaming to warn her!
My problem is that I’ve become obsessed with trying to save the girlfriend. She just won’t listen. He is telling her all the things that he told me about wanting to change for the better. She believes that he is changing for her. I CANNOT override his lies! He claims that things were bad between us and that he never wanted to marry me or felt comfortable in my house. That’s his case. She doesn’t understand that he felt comfortable enough to bring crack whores to my house and he and one of his band members had sex with her in my bed at the same time while I was away on a business trip. She doesn’t understand that he would cry and tell me how he couldn’t live without me right up until he decided that he wanted to leave. He even shifted the blame by telling me that the reason he was leaving is that he “needed me to love him” although he knew I loved him with everything in me and that his leaving was killing me. I know I really should cut off all communication wtih her. I have to stop as it is very upsettting to me. I am fine for long periods of time but once I communicate with her and get frustrated in trying to convince her of the kind of man he is, I start to slip backwards. I just want to move on.

Tami – your instincts tell you as you said “you really should cut off all communication with her”. Just as your instincts told you many things about your Sociopath. Try to learn from your first experience and apply it to your second. Listen to the inner you that is trying to save you. Y

ou are probably not the one she will ever listen to because you are the ex. So she will have preconceived ideas about your take on things. Its a nice thought to help her, you have planted the seeds of thought for her to begin nurturing when she herself stumbles into many of the same things with him you did. She will get there.

Further, you are extending your own problems from having lived a life with him, to now dragging it longer into trying to intervene for her. My opinion is to just let it go. Know in your own mind the truths of your experiences and know that she too, will have to come to that realization. If she were the type to hear you and run… she would by now. Clearly and sadly she needs to go thru the process a little more, that we all did.

As for health related issues to life with a Sociopath… throughout my 2 years, ever time we would be going through a stage of his cheating/lying/deceptive actions, I would feel like my whole chest was twisted into a knot. I began having chest pains regularily in December and after an EKG and stress test, they tell me I had a small heart attach recently. I am only 44, never smoked, healthy weight, very healthy diet, I exercise, and it does not run in my family. Wednesday I meet with the cardiologist as they cannot seem to attribute it to a physical problem. I really believe it is from extreme stress. Is it possible to create for yourself a heart attack from the pressure on you day in and day out? I’m going to ask on Wednesday but he has walked away calm as a cucumber…and I am left to sweep up the pieces of my mental and emotional state.

Just tell her, “When things get weird, you might want to do some research about Sociopaths.” Then go on with your life.

When you said, “I CANNOT override his lies.” Oh my Gosh! Isn’t that the TRUTH!!! It’s the classic mind-f— and one of the most upsetting, unsettling, unnerving elements of the Sociopathic dynamic… at least I think so.

I’ve just read through the lists of ailments and physical manifestations that so many people are having. It’s strange but I remember having body sensations very early on in my relationship with the Bad Man that were telling me something wasn’t right. The first indication I felt was when he gave me flowers. It seemed very empty and I noticed it.

Now he is long gone but the physical feelings are still there. The most dramatic thing that has happened was that I fainted once, long after leaving the Bad Man, when I realized I was being manipulated by someone in a conversation. I realized that I was being manipulated, 1 minute later I had a BIG anxiety attack and next, I woke up on the ground with a goose egg on the side of my head from hitting the tile. That was when I realized how bad things were with the Bad Man, even though he was gone.

I have anxiety attacks which I can always link back to whatever it was I was thinking about right before it happened. And, I have strange coughing/choking fits and innopportune moments. I hate when this happens! It’s really weird and it causes a scene and I feel so embarrassed. It is also connected to my thoughts.

I have finally set up an appointment to speak to a counselor next week. I felt stupid saying that amongst my other problems, I am also a victim of a Sociopath. I was afraid it would sound like I was being dramatic and I just want attention but it turned out okay. I accept that the Bad Man really was a Sociopath and I am not a drama queen for saying so. I think my fear of someone saying that was really what the Bad Man would have said to me. He said things like that when I felt like I needed help with everything he was putting me through. Just another way to “isolate the victim”… make them wrong for seeking help.

Before my call today, my only therapy was LoveFraud and other reading but I know I have to have help with this. I’ve learned a lot but I still need help. I don’t have good thoughts about men. I feel afraid all the time. I’m not shaking in my boots but I am always on guard. And my detectors of disordered behavior are on high alert all the time.

I found some low cost counseling. I have been avoiding this for so long because I wanted to get all my bills paid off and my life cleaned up… like I wanted to wait to get help when I didn’t need it as much as I do now. I am giving that up right now.

Anyone want to join me?

Not ALL the illness caused from the stress of being with a sociopath is psychosomatic!

Many of our victims develop severe autoimmune problems like fibromyalgia or neuropathy.

These are real illnesses – not all in the head.

Oh, I believe there is definite physical consequence. When the N/P/S whatever the heck you want to call him returned to my life in summer 2006 I was already having a trying time with elderly ill parents and a 17 year old wayward daughter. I had walking pneumonia and a mom just diagnosed with Alzheimers who went in for hip surgery a normal 80 year old woman and came out stark raving mad for a time.

Nevertheless, my overall health and vigor were pretty great, and I hadn’t seen HIM for five years or more.

In the next year and a half I started having night terrors, anxiety attacks, total depletion of strength, nervous ticks and food binges. I gained a lot of weight and had zero energy.

He’s been officially gone since November, but only one or two physical contacts from August 2007 (when I bolted) to November. I’m still drained. Still having nightmares, but not terrors, thank God. Still feel like life is surreal and nobody can be trusted (but that has a lot to do with his continued abuse by proxy and gaslighting via message board). Some weekends all I want to do is sleep.

Recovery takes time. I’ve met what I think is a nice guy but one can never be too sure, and my self-confidence is so flagging that we’ll probably never get anything off the ground together. He wonders why I don’t call him…He wonders why I’m so skittish and always second-guessing myself. He wonders why one eye is always over my shoulder. And I wonder if I can ever tell him or anyone else exactly what happened — because to this day, I have no real idea why the P came back, built castles in the air, emotionally abused me and made life surreal. I just think he did it because he could.

This isn’t the end of me, though. I’m far stronger than that, and being around him made me see the difference between me – real – and him – fake. So I feel strong in my own reality and ability to love. Just need to get healthy and put more distance in between my life and that awful year.

Once we realize we each hold the power to walk away, to take no more ever again, every day things get a little better!!

Hugs to all of you. This blog is amazing and so therapeutic.

Oh, yeah…I also started to lose a lot of hair when he was around, mostly in the front near my bangs…the stylist couldn’t figure out why.

I so relate to alohatraveler’s anxiety attacks and sudden realization. So many nights I spent crying and even having these huge clouds of doom descend upon me from nowhere. At the time I attributed them to feeling sad about my parents ill health and old age…but they miraculously disappeared when the P did!

Still, I feel shaky some days – hands shaky, mind shaky, and heart definitely always shaky. HolyWaterSalt’s description of being a meth addict? That suited me. To this day my hands are twitchy like an alcoholic, though I seldom even have a beer anymore.

Thinking back to what a strong, vibrant, in charge woman I was before he returned – completely self-sufficient and at peace – I still can’t understand how he did what he did — but I don’t care. The thing I care about is “why did I LET him?” That answer will provide the means never to let any other Bad Man (I love that!) near me again.

Hi It’s me again–HairEllen. My ex. would even cry watching that christmas movie,”It’s A Wonderful LIfe.” But he did all this crap to me…if he truly is a pathological whatever, how could he have tears watching that movie? And could it be that he is’t a pathological? But all the crap about him! Bad credit, falling out of love with his first wife and then me, leaving me and her with all these unpaid bills, his criminal behaviors when he was a juvenile…his pot smoking and smoking pot with his sixteen year old daughter, his weird requests with anal sex….All these things and more! I am not a doctor and the last time I did go to a couselor, I asked her what she thought, and she replied that he had alot of problems. She was NO help to me…and I went elswhere-still no help–just told me to move on….I still am so affected by this! Somebody please g-d, help!

Do you know – I am SO wary of men who cry at films now. I’ve gone out with three men who I’d regard as having sociopathic traits (one pure sociopath) and they would all blub profusely at the drop of a hat! It was as if getting ‘moved’ by someone else’s stuff was the nearest they got to the real thing. Crying at stuff on a television or record player and having absolutely NO reaction to the suffering going on around them…

I think it’s important to remember that just because they have no conscience doesn’t mean these sociopaths of our don’t know right from wrong. They do. They just don’t care who it hurts as long as it serves their needs. I think the same is true with emotions. They’re also phenomonenal actors! They’ve learned to feign real emotion. Maybe they even have feelings to some degree — god knows he was great at behaving outraged or wounded, and he could keep it up for days on end to punish me, but if he got distracted, it was as though nothing had ever happened. He said he was forgiving and that’s why he could drop something after tormenting me with my minor and usually imagined transgression for days or weeks. I think he just had a limited attention span. When it stopped being fun to see me cry, he’d stop his behavior. When I stopped allowing him the power to manipulate me, I wasn’t any fun at all.

We know that Dr. Steve – but realize that in the medical community, especially here in North America – the victim of a P seeking help being told its psychosomatic is usually doctor code for “I have a whack-job here.” Which causes them further trauma and inability to get real help.

Additionally there’s the “get over it” or “just move on” school of therapy which invalidates & blames the victim.

We have seen victims develop MS and other painful illnesses which therapy can’t touch. The body just “snaps” after the stress & PTSD. But doctors won’t admit that – or can’t because of managed care or their own narrow beliefs.

Swallow-Your before and after list is mine!! Adding hair loss, Xanax to calm the anxiety, Alcohol because I cant sleep. Alcohol to help me sleep. I read and I post. Very few up days, mostly down and continue still to feel like I am in a tornado. Find it hard to catch my breath alot. Up to 2 packs of cigs a day now. Just sick! I am sick and tired of feeling this way. Sick and tired of obsessed thoughts creaping into my head.
I’ll go out with friends and I am just a live wire, spinning out of control and putting myself in dangerous situations. Dont realize it at the time of my “high-party” night out but the next day shaking my head. I pretend to others that I am getting over it-him. But Im not or I haven’t yet. It is killing me that he walked away with no closure–just gone. He Got angry and stopped contact. I stopped trying to contact him almost a month ago but I struggle through each day. I look forward to the day of looking/feeling and doing well, running into him and not giving a SH*T! I know it is up to me to get to that point but it is so damn hard.

Fighter,
Is there anything more infuriating than the words “move on”? We would all LOVE to move on but just saying the words is not offering any help or understanding. I think the major problem is that the emotional damage done is invisible and many just cannot grasp the devastation inside us. That is why this and other sites are so valuable. We can talk to others who really understand and learn how to get through this.

Change,
Hang in there! Getting over this is the hardest thing I have ever had to do but I have slowly got better (after 2 years NC) and you can too.
Have you tried anti-depressants? There are some good ones available and designed to combat depression and anxiety. I take Zoloft but you need to discuss with your doctor first.
Try not to put yourself in situations that hype you up. At this point you need calm in your life. Coffee and nicotine are stimulants and will make the anxiety worse. Physical exercise can help a great deal to flush out all the adrenaline. Keep reading and learning. The more you understand what has been done to you, the easier it gets to pull away from the guilt, anxiety and stress and concentrate on healing your self. It may take time but you CAN recover from this.
Swallow

i should expand on nightmare. i suffered from insomnia due to the nightmare. i would sleep about 4 hours a night.

mostly mine were psychological i guess. stress, anxiety, weight gain.

one thing that happened was an abscess. my gums were in pain but the pain was even more excruciating when i was in his company.

Mainstream medical studies on the physical effects of stress have for many years shown that STRESS of any kind has a very bad effect on the health of the effected individual…animal or human.

The healthy immune system in the body daily “fights off” infections from a “zillion” viruses and bacteria, by attacking these invaders and killing them. When AIDS or any other thing (like stress) attacks the immune system the person or animal becomes more suspecpitble to infection.

Adreneline is one of the hormones released when we are frightened or upset. This hormone is a good thing in short term conditions of “fight or flight” and can do some amazing things. Remember reading about the 110 pound woman who lifted a car off top of her child? She got “superhuman strength” from the rush of hormones when she saw her child under a car. The hormones cause the eyes to dialate and see better (but also give tunnel vision) the blood flow is directed to the muscles, the lungs and away from the digestive tract. If you are trying to run from a tiger, your body knows it doesn’t need to worry about digestion because if you don’t get away it won’t be a problem. LOL

You can run faster and farther if you are scared because for a short period of time you have the strength to do this.

Under LONG-TERM stress however, all kinds of hormones are released that have bad effects on the body and the mind. They upset your ability to problem solve, to focus, to sleep, etc. as well as digest food.

Sleep deprivation by itself can cause confusion, daytime inability to concentrate, focus, remember, and just plain think. In Viet Nam and Korea sleep deprivation was used as a torture. I have sleep apnea and before I got my “breathing machine” I was feeling like I was 110 years old because I NEVER got a night’s sleep even though I thought I did.

Anxiety, especially constant anxiety, the constant insecurity of not knowing what is going on, of fear, worry, etc. can make your body and mind subject to all sorts of physical illnesses and changes. PTSD is a response to either a series of traumatic events or one huge traumatic event. It effects every part of our being.

Since my husband’s death by plane crash (he burned to death) and I was there at the time–I have had PTSD, and also from a romantic relationship with a psychopath afterwards. The list of my illnesses since then reads like a medical journal–I am a retired Registered Nurse Practitioner. My short term memory has been severely effected, my ability to make judgments, my sleep cycle has been almost destroyed, and deep depression has been my daily guest.

Change in our lives, from changing jobs, to moving from one house to another, having a child, getting married, getting divorced, etc.—any of these and more–causes stress. If you give a “score” to various stresses in our lives as Holmes and Raye Stress Scale does, you will find that as your score increases over a 3 year period you become much more liable to have an accident, infection, sickness, etc.

The Cure for stress is “time”–and peace. A decrease in change in your life as much as possible. Unfortunately, getting away from a Psychopathic partner may cause increased Change, like moving ot another house, financial problems, new jobs, new schools, problems with the kids, etc.

As much as possible, we should keep the “excitement” out of our lives and keep as steady and peaceful existence as possible as well. That isn’t always easy. I was fortunate that I could retire and not have to work at a stressful job while I was trying to heal–most people are not so fortunate. I’ve had other stressors in my life during the 3 1/2 years since my husband died, and I got involved with the psychopath, but I am now focusing on MY needs entirely. My kids are grown, my health is returning and I will pay whatever price it “costs” to have peace and peaceful people in my life–if it means I have to go live in a cave! LOL

OxDrover-

I am sorry for your loss.

Everytime I start to doubt whether my ex is indeed a s, I get new evidence that he is. He cried over EVERYTHING! At first, I thought he was the most sensitive man I have ever ment. Yes, he cried over movies that didn’t bring a tear to my eye. And, SONGS, oh how he cried over songs! After awhile, his blubbering drove me nuts! I think it was his was of getting attention. He was actually very dramatic about EVERYTHING! He is a musician and I once told him that he should have been an actor.

well i can relate big time, oops i did it again; have been feeling terrible lonely this week so stupid me i called the ex s path we are supossed to be friends and thats it so we dont contact very often. anyway the phone call went ok just chatting generally, then i asked him if he was seeing anyone, and would he like to catch up at somepoint. he told me he wasnt seeing anyone. and he wouldlike to catch up when he wasnt busy. well this semed to go ok and he was being very amicable. anyway today i sent him a message saying was he doing anything and if not would he like to get together 2 day. i have been going out of my brain with lonliness and i know that is why i wanted to see him but just as a friend just for company that is all. anyway he sent a message back saying: i cant catch up, its my friends birthday and we are having lunch at ……… so i sent a message back saying thats fine talk later. then he sends a msg saying we ll get together another time. well he always says friends, without mentioning names wether its a female friend or not who knows i know most of his male friends names so it seemed strange . this led me to think it is some girl he is screwing or trying to impress somehow as he said to me the night before im not seeing anyone. it seemed strange also that he named the place they were going to its not far from me i could have just gone there and seen who he was with. very strange and a bit risky telling me where he was going, all this confusion with just a few words in a msg. well after a while this got my blood boiling and i was like if your sleeping around just be man enough to say im seeing someone, or im taking a girl out to lunch. but no all this mystery has to be there instead. we always said if we were involved with someone we would tell each other. now he thinks if hes sleeping with someone thats not actually seeing them its just sex and they ae just friends as he puts it. . anywa y i felt verydown today thinking he has lied to me again and why oh why did i ask him to get together i felt worse for doing it. if he didnt want to see me or if hes involved with someone why did he answer the phone when i rang to begin with . he actually didnt answer it straight away it went to msg bank then he called me back instantly. so he could have just easily not talked to me at all. its like he knows just how to cause worry and curiosity in me that eats away in my mind. i was talking to my mother and when i told her she just said just forgett about him why do you worry. and i thought you just dont get what they do to us no one does. only the people on these pages. i know the lonliness is making things worse for me at the moment. he is so smug . why dont bad things ever happen to them, i think half the reason i stay in contact is just to hopefully see him fall on his face and fail and feel some sort of hurt. but i never see it. i cant warn the girls he plays cause he is sooo secretive. also where he was going to day is the same place where the last girl who jilted him lives so he probably was hopeing to bump into her with the other girl. that is how his sick mind works. why cant we just see revenge i think it would help recovery a lot. so i have had a pretty dark weekend i feel like i am becoming a mean person which is not who i am but i want him to feel hurt or pain in some way. since we broke up i have even lied to him on occasion just to play him at this own game for a little bit of satisfaction and it felt good i must say. anyway just trying to get on with things i really want to meet someone nice to help take my mind off him. i also have night mares very realistic ones where i am bashing him up i am not a violent person and i am small but i am really bashing him i feel the anger it is very real i even hear the cracking smacking noise when i hit him on the head and on the face and he isnt fighting back just standing with a stupid look on his face. i think i dream this because i feel so helpless towards him in real life like i am defenceless. i really want to screw himover so bad right now, like do something to con fuse him totally like he does to my mind. the other girl he last was trying to be with, she rejected him and has gotten pregnant to another man. i think this actually really hurt him and now he seems more decieving than ever towards me as well like hes acting out against me as well because she is with another guy and having a baby. its like hes out to get everyone who has hurt him but i never really hurt him, he left me. anyway would love some support tonight feel all alone in the world right now, so please anyone write some coments to my rambling it does give me some comfort where not much else does. thanks for listening.

Jules…

NO CONTACT IS THE BEST WAY TO GO..THIS PERSON IS NOT YOUR FRIEND

Whatever you offer them they will take it and hit it with you the face…forget the BAD MAN…

You will realise you are lonelier with HIM than without him!

I’ve had a lot of the symptoms that have been mentioned, but the ones that worry me the most right now are memory loss, not being able to retain things and I guess what I would call confusion. I need to get a job and or go to school. I am scared because I can’t retain what I read and sometimes when I’m writing here I can’t remember how to spell words that I used to have no problem with. How am I going to hold a job? One day when my soon to be ex husband was playing games, I called my brother and told him what was going on. Then later that same day he stopped by and I started to tell him what happened and he said I told him on the phone. I had to think about it for probably 10 minutes before I got a glimpse of memory of telling him earlier that day. That was scary.

Jules,
I’m still in need of a lot of help myself, so I don’t feel that comfortable giving advice. But I am sure how important no contact is. You are “lucky” in the sense you do not have a child with this guy. You can choose to stop talking to him and work on healing. It won’t stop the loneliness or pain at first, but in time, when you heal, it will. If you keep in contact with him you will always have loneliness and pain. Try looking at calling him as you would hitting somebody over the head with a crowbar. It’s something you just wouldn’t do because it’s wrong and it would hurt someone. If you call him you’re hitting yourself over the head. I know it’s not easy to do, but necessary to save yourself. I need my ex to fall off the face of the earth, but I have to keep some contact with him because of my son. My ex (I have to come up with something like the bad man too. I can’t stand calling him “my” anything.) has reminded me that we’ll always have a connection and some contact as long as we’re alive.

I have to go. I hope that helps a little.

I was you a year ago, my friends didnt understand but yet they had his number that he was only using me…they do understand that part so listen to them when they tell you to forget him…he is not worth another minute of you time

Sometime I feel that even reading the boards is dedicating more time to him than I want, I have my relapses where I think he does not have NPD , then I read other stories on here and I feel like I relate to the feeling so well

You need make yourself heal, I dont know what it takes for you,.mayb eyou need to HURT really really badly before you realise that fire actually burns and leaves scars …

As you soak in your misery and worries over him, canyou imageine what the heck in going on out there, people having fun, try the nearest coffee house, drink some coffe get a book get involved in activites…doing all these things is hard at first but it was a boderline person who made me get involved in so many activities I never dreamt I was capable of…his madness calssified me as BORING and I beleived it enought to go out there and have so much fun, even though no one I know will ever use that word to describe me…see they still get in your head

Its in your power to STOP him;..its emotional and you guard the gates to your emotions, so you can attempt to expel him or allow him in with your phonecalls…if you le tit go, the love will become ashes..

If you need to read somethintg and you are feeling down, try the stories on the board at:

http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/index.php

You SHOULD try dedicating all that energy to YOURSELF …you dont need him to feel good

Someone on that board also mentions that in order to heal you need to examine yourself, the traits that draw you to him and address those or else you will be a mess.

I will never give 5 years to another N..I will do all in my power to escape or waste another second on that person…I have hoped enough and loved too much not to see any improvement year after year..I will not do it anymore ..

I question the kind of love that leaves one downtrodden and LONELY…its was some kind of infatuation incited by a mad person..

Lick your wonds and start with baby steps…you just have to get out there and do your own thing and forget him..if it means moving away to another town, please do so..I tried it before it worked for the first year, till he moved to where I am..now he live out of the country and I am relieved not to have the excuse to ever call him again..

Given the chance to go backwars, I will have avaoided that town completely and wish I never met him

God is trying to teach you a lesson and you are refusing to learn it…

Jules:

No contact is best. Always remember, any type of communication is based on a lie, and is only to fulfill some purpose for him…He has no interest in your best interest, this has already been proven. Every time he answers that phone he is looking for your weakness that day, and how to exploit it for his pleasure.

Loneliness is hard for anyone, even for people that did not have a sociopath to contend with. The old saying “learn to love yourself” goes here, and here is another saying I like “Fake it till you make it.” It is time to take up a craft, exercise, go to the beach, hike a mountain, shovel some snow, (whatever your environment provides)But learn to be with yourself. Learn that what you like, and that what you want, is perfect. Other peoples opinions about your interest are invalid in comparison to what makes you happy. They don’t have to live with you. You have to live with you. Little steps, one day at a time, just like replacing an addiction.

Also, this is not a criticism of your post at all, you did precisely what this site is set out to do, give a shoulder, lend an ear. And now you are reaping that benefit…I just wanted to say, when it came to my interaction with my closest friends, I had to stop talking to friends in great detail about him, I was analyzing him…I had to rebuild some of those friendships, find our common interests again, because to my friends, it was like watching me self destruct. Call your old friends, make plans for lunch, dinner etc. That will help alleviate some of that loneliness.

I totally agree with all these replies to Jules. Honestly Jules, we know how you feel but you have GOT to switch off somehow and never speak to him again. Sod ‘friends’. Would you be friends with anyone else who treated you like that?

It’s also revealing that you say you want to warn other people but they won’t believe you – you want to save other women from him, but you’re not going to be very convincing to them while you are involved with him yourself! Were you to warn them, they’d look and think you were just trying to keep him to yourself!

(NB I’m only saying this because I’ve been in the exact same position – of wanting to warn others shortly before getting involved with him anew because he promised me the world).

Be strong and STAY AWAY! Nothing good will come of being involved with him and you know this! You’re not on your own – you can do it.

Oh Jules!! I know exactly how you feel. I too have many nights of feeling alone. I do the same thing–obsess over EVER little thing. Thinking, if he didnt want to talk why did he pick up the phone, why did he call me back, he picked up on the first ring, he picked up on the second, he hit the ignore button and on and on. This does not matter. All it does is keep us STUCK! We analyze them when we should be focusing now on OURSELVES!! It is so hard, believe me I know. I struggle on a daily basis and the only part thus far (3 weeks) I have succeeded is no contact. But the contact is all in my mind, heart, body. It hasn’t gone away, it keeps me sick. They have created an addiction in us. I have all the symptoms of physical, mental and emotional trama. I try everyday to do my best to deal with my current status of healing. I read others who are so helpful and it gets me by a couple minutes more. Healing from anything takes time and we have to try and keep our head above water. TRY as hard as you can not to contact him or take any of his calls!!! (I still secretly wait for his) BUT it will do us no good. Everyone says it and we know it. It is a fantasy world in our head and it is not a promising one. I wish we all lived closer and could get together a night out support group. Any time you want to call him -call a friend, your mother, anyone BUT HIM. Keep close contact to the site….it does help.

Yes, warning new victims doesn’t work, the S will be sure to bring to the new womans attention how much YOU want him. When I tried, I only created a new day of drama for myself…If the victims come to you, by all means, spill your guts…but NEVER NEVER be the initiator. If the new victim knows somethings not right, they will seek you out for the answers that they need now. They will be much more receptive now that they are questioning themselves..which is truly a sad commentary on the effect the S has. A much greater effect will be had when you are detached. Hit the key points “Liar, not monogamous, asks for money and things, lives off of people, bad to his children, and because of his mental illness you were left with no closure” And the latest victim will expect no closure – which will help them prepare for the break. I found it hard to reveal HOW I was taken advantage of – mostly, because after so long, I could see it coming, and made conscious choices to try one more time….in the end, i cried a lot about how hope was my down-fall with him. Recognizing my own weaknesses helped build the strength I needed.

I need to remind myself often that I AM better off
without this person in my life and this blog helps in that regard as well as daily calls to my family and friends

I am thankful to this person for several things

-He made me realize my Capacity to love

-He made me appreciate all the little things my friends and family do for me

-He helped me connect at a deeper emotional level with some friends and my mother

– He thought me who my friends are and who I can depend on in my time of need

-And most important he thought me to set up boundaries and to begin loving myself enough not to let others take precedence above me..because how else can you love if you cannot love yourself.

-And knowing that some people lack empathy, I am glad I have it although I have to learn to translate some it to sympathy

I also know that even if he is not as sick as I think, he made me feel worthless enough to question my own mind and intuition and therefore I need to learn to trust my intuition a lot more because God gave it to me for a very very good reason. There is a time for everything and instead of letting God take the wheel , I wanted to control the vehicle of life by myself no matter how many warning and signs I was given along the way. I pray constantly that the lesson has sunk in finally and I hope you will get there one day and very very soon..I still struggle, but I have to keep going and believe in the power of prayer”call a prayer line if he cant handle it , they will help you pray

call a prayer line if YOU cant handle it , they will help you pray

thanks for all your words and thoughts. i mean that. somtimes i think hes not too bad henever took money and supports himself financially and he is kind to children even though we dont have any. but i know there are other parts of him that classic s path the lies and deception mainly. sometimes i dont contact him for ages and he eventually contacts me sometimes we dont hear anything for a long time. you know it feels like he is punishing me for something i did or something another woman did to him. i am trying to meet new people i am on some dating sites. i think lonliness is a big factor in my contacting him so i f i can fix that i may less likely to need to contact. but i feel this nagging need to keep tabs on him it s very strange but i think i want to observe him getting into more trouble and hope that he does its not even for my own need to see him anymore. also the new girls will never know about me and they wont come to me for help cause he will lie about me i know hes done this before he makes out i hurt him and that i am a bad woman. so why would they ever try to find me for help. i m sure he doesnt even tell them my name he never tells me there names or tells the truth about what hes doing with them he keeps it all secret and seperate so no one knows about the others and he gets away with it like its full proof. when i met him he told me his then ex was a self righteous bitch. now i think shes probably a nice girl who he f……. over completely. he also said to me in regards to her i can be a mean bastard but im polite. now i know cause hes treating me the way he treated her. if i have other friends in my life i feel stronger even towards him like im not scared of saying things to him cause i dont really care if i ever hear from him again. but when i have no one like now, i am scared to say to him what i really think. i wish i could find out these girls names and just leave a few hints as to what he is like it makes me so mad he is being all sweet and nice to them. totally charming i bet. i had him up on the website dont date him girl but i took it down i was scared he would findout it was me. i dont think the young girls he gets in with even look at those web sites but i think i am going to put his name back on there with not much details to reveal its me . yep im goin to do that today right now. you know this is really sad and im embarrassed to tell anyone but when it was my birthday he never even rang me we were suposed to be freinds at this stage i always ring him just to say happy birthday. anyway he never range me said he was busy and was going to call me later. then when we did get together after my birthday had gone like a week later he came over and we got pizza for lunch he had no money so i had to pay for the pizza he usually pays his way but he was starting a new job. that was the last time i saw him so when he sent that maessage saying; it s m y friends birthday and were having lunch at ……… it really hit home and i thought yeh i bet he pays for her. i feel like telling him to pay me back the money for the pizza now hes working his new job just to let him know he cant treat me like that i never buy lunch for any guy i know its usually the other way round. anyway does anyone else feel like they want to get revenge and play them at their own game. i really feel like that right now. thanks for all your kindness everyone of you and it helps me to vent on here. i will try to be strong.

Tami Newman said, “I was devastated and felt I had lost the love of my life and my best friend.” I felt exactly the same. My S lived with me for 3 years, during which time he was always timely, came home every night, and we talked on the phone 5-6 times per day. I did not EVER worry about where he was or what he was doing as I trusted him implicitly. Not only was he a great lover, but also my best friend (so I thought). Within 4 days of the last time I spent the night with him (after he moved out) he was in Vegas with the new victim, and has now moved into a million dollar house with her…(her money down, of course) and obviously the Vegas trip was planned, but he didn’t even tell me he was seeing someone and I thought we were working on getting back together. Now he is “hiding”, from creditors, from the IRS, from everyone as he uses his PO Box for everything. He had 2 cell phones that I knew of when he lived with me, and upon investigation I found he had another one, and recently signed up for a fourth!! He has really sped up his MO….he wants to be a millionaire by the time he’s 60 (he’s 54) and he knows he cannot achieve this goal by legal or ethical means. EVERYTHING for him is all about the money, and secondly the show.

As soon as he was out of the house, he was overtly hostile, calling me names, hanging up on me, accusing me of having an affair (he did) and subjecting me to intense emotional abuse. I thought he had a brain tumor because of the rapid change of behavior.

I slept wonderfully when with him, but gained 20 pounds in 3 years which I have now lost (misery diet). I have had EXTREME anxiety, symptoms of depression, difficulty sleeping, difficulty focusing (particularly on my job) and have been consumed by figuring out “who” he really is and what he has been doing (fraud in relationships and finances).

Like Tami Newman, I have contacted the new girlfriend but was met with denial and open hostility. I believe he has told her either I want him back or that I am “Psycho B”. Neither is the case. I will not contact her again.

I so much agree with Tami Newman who said “I cannot override his lies!” and alohatraveler, who said, “It’s the classic mind-f- – -”. Yes to both. I have dated, and loved, many men in my life. I cannot even say that I loved the S the most, but I TRUSTED him with every fiber of my being, and that is what is difficult, the EXTREME SENSE OF BETRAYAL.

I very much relate to change06, who said, “They have created an addiction in us”. Yes, an emotional addiction, a security addiction, and a sexual addiction. The combination of these is very powerful. Friends and family members don’t understand, it’s always “just move on” and they don’t realize the mind f— and the emotional rape and violation that penetrates the soul. I have never experienced anything like this with any relationship, he had me entirely fooled.

I am thankful every day that I have the CAPACITY TO FEEL, even though feeling hurts sometimes. We all have the capacity to LOVE, and that is a blessing.

Hello Jules!!! OMG, You are making me look deeper into my own scenerio!! First of all, he had money when he was with you because he was either getting it from someone else and using it for you- or using his own money for the time– thinking he was going to get something from you (Whatever that was for him). Could have been anything from sex, career move, contacts, easy life, money whatever. When he realized he couldn’t (by the time of your birthday) he had no money and YOU had to pay for the pizza on that DAY!!!!-YOUR BIRTHDAY!!! Please—- I hear your story and your repeating all about him (which is fine I still do) BUT you cant heal if its not about you and not about the other girls or what he is doing!….YOU have to take a deep breath and STOP!
PUT him down! If you cant forever then start for awhile. Work on yourself Girl!!! Take baby steps, one good thing for you.

righteous woman,

I am copying your words: “Always remember, any type of communication is based on a lie, and is only to fulfill some purpose for him…” and am going to tape them to my fridge.

jules,

I can so relate to how you are feeling. The past week has been rough for me. I’ve been feeling lonely and on the verge of tears almost all the time.

A few days ago my S husband called under some pretense (as usual). Later I realized that his main reason for calling was to prod me to “make a decision” to file for divorce (he wants me to file so he can “prove” to others that a divorce is not what he wants) so he can give K (the other woman) some kind of timeline.

(I can see online that K’s divorce is not yet final (she filed last March 28) and she has a new lawyer. Problems, sounds like. I’m sure her husband is not going to roll over and play dead for her, not after everything she has done.)

Anyway, when my husband called, he started whining almost immediately. He’s working his ass off; he never has enough money. I told him he has more extra money than I do and that he is just trying to make me feel sorry for him and that is so classic. He said to quit interrupting and listen. He has no social life, his life is so empty, all he does is work work work and go to AA meetings. I told him I didn’t want to hear about his social life. He said he was wondering when I would make my decision. I said I thought it was already clear that we would soon be discussing the dissolution of our marriage. We ended up in an argument and he hung up on me.

I called him back but he wouldn’t answer. I decided okay, I would leave him a voicemail. So I wrote out what I wanted to say, basically saying…well, here, I’ll just copy and paste some of what I said:

“As I’ve said before, I finally get it that everything with you is a manipulation. Everything. As much as I would love for you to be the man you fooled everyone into thinking you are, you are not that man. You never were and you never will be. You can’t be.

“So all I can do now is protect myself and the ones I love. You’ve hurt so many people and you probably don’t even care. Probably all you care about is how much this is all going to cost you. Or what if people find out? You don’t even have the courage or integrity to admit what you’ve done. All you can do is keep trying to make everyone think it is all in my head. Well that may work with your co-workers and AA buddies, but it will no longer work with me.

“I know that for 18 years all it took was one sweet word from you and I was putty in your hands. Who would have thought that someone who sounded so loving could actually be so cold-blooded? Certainly not me. I believed in you. We all believed in you. We believed in you and you betrayed us and now you don’t even have the decency to admit the truth.

“I have to stop hoping you will. I have to accept that you won’t. No matter how many AA meetings you attend or how many times you hear chap. 5 of the big book, it makes no difference. You lie to everyone. You probably even lie to yourself. I cannot believe anything you say.

“I took a closer look at the Pepboys tire receipt and the mechanic documented three times in writing that you were advised of the repairs that needed to be done on the car.

“I know you are a threat so I want to inform you that I have shared my concerns with the appropriate people and also that I have started a blog. In it I am documenting everything. So if you have the notion that you can get rid of your problems by getting rid of me, I want you to know it will not work. No matter if it looks like an accident or that you are in no way involved, you will be revealed for what you are. I have given instruction to family and friends. Also, I have three contacts among people you work with, so you’ll be exposed to your co-workers too. I hate to have to tell you all this because I loved you so dearly, but now I must look out for myself and those I love even if it means making shocking–but well-founded–accusations.”

Now, I do realize that saying all that to my husband was a complete waste of breath. Well, except for informing him of my blog and, okay, I did throw in one “Go to your dumpy little harlot!” and that was quite therapeutic. But, otherwise, nothing I say to him will make any difference to him. There is no point to make, no argument to win, there will be no last-minute conversion. I’m still at times operating as if he were a normal person, as if I can appeal to emotion or reason. But I can’t. It’s hopeless.

The part about the blog probably got to him because he texted me later and asked if he could call me when he got off work. He was all sweetsie and like a dope I tm’d him and said he could call.

And the sad thing is, I wanted him to call. I still get that flutter when my damn cell phone rings. It’s pathetic (although I say that with kindness towards myself). He called and of course I felt confused. I lost that clarity that only “NO CONTACT” can bring. He sounded sincere. Said he was sorry, he’s learning his lesson. He’s working his AA program and he thinks it’s the right path and he’s sorry he didn’t do this 25 years ago and I say I’m sorry too and by conversation’s end I had at least one toe in the water again.

Later I was able to bring myself back to reality. Wake up, Self! All he cares about is getting on my good side. One more manipulation. HE IS THE LIE!! (Thanks to whoever said that, I think M.L.) He doesn’t want me angry, oh no, he does not want me angry. Plus he wanted to know what I’ve told our 17 year old daughter. Squirm squirm squirm. Does she know about the brakes? I’m sure that was his true underlying question.

I told him I haven’t talked to her about him in months. She won’t let me. (She has this No Contact rule down good, and I didn’t even have to tell her.)

He said he wasn’t asking when did I last talk to her, but what have I told her? Hmmm…I told her she knows the basic story about him and K, but I have not talked to her about all the other women.

And I left it at that and he had to let me leave it at that because if he had come right out and mentioned the brakes it would have indicated a consciousness of guilt, and he knew it.

Before he said good-bye he asked me to tell her that he misses her and that he really wants to talk to her.

I’m sure he does. He knows that if he could just talk to her he could work his voodoo on her mind. He is utterly confident of his ability to persuade. And with good reason, I suppose. If I ever mention that someone thinks ill of him, he’ll say that if he could talk to them they would think different.

And the scary thing is, he’s probably right!

My God, he can still get my mind all tangled up and I’ve seen all the evidence!

After I hung up I told my daughter what he said and, no surpise, she said she didn’t want to talk to him. I asked if she thought she ever would and she said, “Probably not.”

She is suffering. She misses her “family.” But she sees her father for what he is, saw through him way before I did, and she’s probably further ahead in her healing because of it.

I spent yesterday with a couple of friends. But all day I was feeling that sadness. I know it’s something I have to go through and I don’t want to. It’s too painful.

And when I feel that way, my future looks bleak. He was my life. I thought he loved me. Am I worthy at all? Am I lovable? And all those thoughts go through my mind and it seems like so much work to invent my life all over again. Gillian: single woman. Gillian: soon living alone. Gillian: (and now I’ll think of some good stuff): the good friend. Gillian: the writer. Gillian: the loving mom. Gillian: the adventurer. Gillian: the decent person.

The funny thing with my case is that, when I first starting seeing him, I remember one girl we had met with abunch of his friends who kept asking me so many personal questions that I got irrirated…looking back, she may have been trying to warn me..

I also remember another guy who asked me where I had met him, and I said a party, then he was liuke,.hmm good guy good guy, I knew he wanted to say something else, but he didnt know me well enough..I wish people will just come out and say whatver without fear the person will get mad at you…its afterall saving someone life

His facade is so normal, he attract people in hoards to pay homage to him and his intelligence..I dont understand how none can get past that facade..that facade of extreme charm and politness..they all think he is the greatest thiun since slice bread and that always ate that me in that I thought I was the one with the problem when everone was singing his praise, I the spoilsport had issues and so I simply couldnt make things work

Hmmm..I have my good days and some bad ones , but working on converting it all to good..I guess my one thing now is that is he could be in a “relationship” with someone how come he dindt try to be in one with me…its like he emotionally raped my sould..did he even think of the consequences of his actions on others., I guess not..

Sometimes he gets this tortured look on his face when he hurts me, and you think it because of you but apparently as I was told once, it had nothing at all to do with me

Breathe..too much time wasted, but I have to believe in Gods master plan for my life or I will give up too soon, because sometimes the pain gets a bit much and I feel so oooo stupid because there was a lady who warned me and I dont think I ingnored her warning, but I thought how could you possible kow him adn she didnt, she took one look at him and was like this guy is no good..it helped with my descicion when I first broke up with him….but I guess for some strange reason I was hooked, I just couldnt understnad it, I even stopped drinking in his presence so I could keep a straight head because I thought he was putting somethign in my drink..that helped tremendously..till thst time, I never drank in his presence or anythign he has to offer..he could never have sex without dousing himself in wine

1. The funny thing with my case is that, when I first starting seeing him, I remember one girl we had met with abunch of his friends who kept asking me so many personal questions that I got irritated”looking back, she may have been trying to warn me..
I also remember another guy who asked me where I had met him, and I said a party, then he was like,.hmm good guy good guy, I knew he wanted to say something else, but he didn’t know me well enough. I wish people will just come out and say whatever without fear the person will get mad at you”its afterall its saving someone’s life
His facade is so normal, he attracts people in hoards to pay homage to him and his intelligence..I dont understand how none can get past that facade..that facade of extreme charm and politness..they all think he is the greatest thing since slice bread and that always ate at me.. in that I thought I was the one with the problem when everyone was singing his praise, I was the spoilsport who had issues and so I simply couldn’t make things work
Hmmm..I have my good days and some bad ones , but working on converting it all to good..I guess my one thing now is that if he could be in a “relationship” with someone how come he didn’t try to be in one with me”its like he emotionally raped my soul..did he even think of the consequences of his actions on others., I guess not..
Sometimes he got this tortured look on his face when he hurts me, and you think it because of you but apparently as I was told once, it had nothing at all to do with me
Breathe..too much time wasted, but I have to believe in Gods master plan for my life or I will give up too soon, because sometimes the pain gets a bit much and I feel so oooo stupid because there was a lady who warned me and I don’t think I ignored her warning, but I thought how could you possible know him and she didn’t, she took one look at him and was like this guy is no good..it helped with my decision when I first broke up with him”.but I guess for some strange reason I was hooked, I just couldn’t understand it, I even stopped drinking in his presence so I could keep a straight head because I thought he was putting something in my drink..that helped tremendously..till that time, I never drank in his presence or anythign he has to offer..he could never have sex without dousing himself in wine

One ot the things that gave me courage in the early days was reading several baords, it gave me anunerstanding of something I never understood for so long and I was able to move forward with seeking closure

there was a book onreview on amazon about how to deal with a narciccit and it was really eye opening..the woman questioned the writer as to why she should encourage people to DEAL with a narciccist…she mentioned she lived with one and that she advise to FLEE RUN AVOID THEM

…So I again I found this online: it was made up of different bits and pieces from here and there…

__________________________

Diagnostic Features:

Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance, need for admiration, extreme self-involvement, and lack of empathy for others. Individuals with this disorder are usually arrogantly self-assured and confident. They expect to be noticed as superior. Many highly successful individuals might be considered narcissistic. However, this disorder is only diagnosed when these behaviors become persistent and very disabling or distressing.

RELATIONSHIP

The early days of the dating is fast, furious, and vastly romantic. Oftentimes marriage proposals come within a few weeks. The “victim” sees the narcissist as the “Perfect Partner”. She’s never met someone so wonderful in her lifetime and falls head-over-heels in love. The two go on to live happily ever after – or so she thinks – until the “real” partner surfaces. The once wonderful Dr. Jekyll turns into the dangerous Mr. Hyde who quickly instills fear, anxiety, uncertainty, and total confusion to the relationship

You think you are in love. And you may well be. As the relationship progresses it becomes apparently clear to you that, unfortunately, the one you love is not reciprocating those feelings toward you. Your partner is, in fact, in love”only it’s with themselves. This can be very disheartening.

Certain narcissists are good at simulating emotional communication and can easily mislead people around them. Yet, their true colours are exposed when they lose interest in someone because he no longer serves a narcissistic (or other) purpose. Then they no longer invest energy in what, to others, comes naturally: emotional communication. This is the essence of the narcissist’s exploitativeness. To a certain degree, we all exploit each other. But, the narcissist abuses people. He misleads them into believing that they mean something to him, that they are special and dear to him, and that he cares about them. When they discover that it was all a charade, they are likely to respond much more forcefully than usual.

The narcissist’s problem is exacerbated by being constantly abandoned. It is a vicious cycle: the narcissist alienates people and they leave him. This, in turn, convinces him that he was always right in thinking that people are selfish and will always prefer their self-interest to his welfare.
His off putting behaviour is, thus, enhanced, leading to yet more serious emotional ruptures with his nearest and dearest.
“Evidently, he who is not in touch with his emotions ”“ finds it impossible to communicate them”
Complications:

Vulnerability in self-esteem makes individuals with this disorder very sensitive to criticism or defeat. Although they may not show it outwardly, criticism may haunt these individuals these individuals and may leave them feeling humiliated, degraded, hollow, and empty. They may react with disdain, rage, or defiant counterattack. Their social life is often impaired due to problems derived from entitlement, the need for admiration, and the relative disregard for the sensitivities of others. Though their excessive ambition and confidence may lead to high achievement; performance may be disrupted due to intolerance of criticism or defeat. Sometimes vocational functioning can be very low, reflecting an unwillingness to take a risk in competitive or other situations in which defeat is possible. Individuals with this disorder have special difficulties adjusting to growing old and losing their former ?superiority?.

This is from Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. and I suggest you read it when you feel powerless or hopeless or crazy.
SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM

Most people feel victimized by narcissistic forces and narcissists. This is because they have felt consistently oppressed, suppressed, or frustrated by narcissistic forces This becomes problematic in terms of achieving sustainability. When one is in a “victim state,” one sees the oppressor as the enemy, as the one with the power, and as a result, the victim is easily manipulated into frustration and anger. The narcissist will utilize this dynamic to incite people into emotional states which can be exploited into distractions from the core issues.
Skills for dealing with attempts to intimidate can be divided into two areas, intrapersonal and interpersonal. Intrapersonally, it is essential not to react. This means that reactions of fear, impatience, or anger are not practical. In their place should be patience and curiosity. On an interpersonal level, responses and questions like, “that’s interesting; could you explain
that?; or, “I am not clear about that; would you please clarify (or elaborate)?; or, “it seems like there is a contradiction in your logic.” All of these can generate positive results in terms of reducing the control of the narcissistic forces. This is done through the non-reaction, which communicates, “you are not so powerful that you can manipulate me, or us, and distract
us from the issue. It is also done through the questions which communicate, “I/we are not afraid of you; we are not leaving the space/situation to your control alone; we will challenge you if necessary; you cannot win through intimidation or disinformation.”

Excellent individual emotional boundaries are so critical for dealing with narcissism.These emotional boundaries prevent the force of the narcissism emotions from throwing an individual off balance. The emotional boundaries are also helpful in not taking the narcissism’s actions or positions personally.
The narcissist, consumed and driven by the grandiosity, feels responsible for everything; therefore, all failures, frustrations, and disappointments are its fault, and are directed personally at it. In interacting with narcissism, one does not want to fall into the narcissist’s world and take what is going on personally. Narcissism’s actions are indiscriminate. They are directed toward any object, person or group that threatens its control, domination and grandiosity. An excellent emotional boundary system does not allow the force of another person’s emotions to penetrate one’s own personal space.

Course:

Narcissistic traits are very common in adolescents, but most adolescents grow out of this behavior. Unfortunately, for some, this narcissistic behavior persists and intensifies into adulthood; thus they become diagnosed with this

This is from Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. and I suggest you read it when you feel powerless or hopeless or crazy.

SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM

Most people feel victimized by narcissistic forces and narcissists. This is because they have felt consistently oppressed, suppressed, or frustrated by narcissistic forces This becomes problematic in terms of achieving sustainability. When one is in a “victim state,” one sees the oppressor as the enemy, as the one with the power, and as a result, the victim is easily manipulated into frustration and anger. The narcissist will utilize this dynamic to incite people into emotional states which can be exploited into distractions from the core issues.
Skills for dealing with attempts to intimidate can be divided into two areas, intrapersonal and interpersonal. Intrapersonally, it is essential not to react. This means that reactions of fear, impatience, or anger are not practical. In their place should be patience and curiosity. On an interpersonal level, responses and questions like, “that’s interesting; could you explain
that?; or, “I am not clear about that; would you please clarify (or elaborate)?; or, “it seems like there is a contradiction in your logic.” All of these can generate positive results in terms of reducing the control of the narcissistic forces. This is done through the non-reaction, which communicates, “you are not so powerful that you can manipulate me, or us, and distract
us from the issue. It is also done through the questions which communicate, “I/we are not afraid of you; we are not leaving the space/situation to your control alone; we will challenge you if necessary; you cannot win through intimidation or disinformation.”

Excellent individual emotional boundaries are so critical for dealing with narcissism.These emotional boundaries prevent the force of the narcissism emotions from throwing an individual off balance. The emotional boundaries are also helpful in not taking the narcissism’s actions or positions personally.
The narcissist, consumed and driven by the grandiosity, feels responsible for everything; therefore, all failures, frustrations, and disappointments are its fault, and are directed personally at it. In interacting with narcissism, one does not want to fall into the narcissist’s world and take what is going on personally. Narcissism’s actions are indiscriminate. They are directed toward any object, person or group that threatens its control, domination and grandiosity. An excellent emotional boundary system does not allow the force of another person’s emotions to penetrate one’s own personal space.

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