Several readers of Lovefraud have mentioned medical problems that arose in their lives with psychopaths. These readers are convinced that the psychological stress and pain of these relationships translated themselves into physical ailments. Some of these symptoms disappeared when the psychopath disappeared, some didn’t. Here are a few recent comments:
When I parted from him, physically I felt so raw and sore, I looked like I had been in a boxing ring. My health was poor and I couldnt even have the osteopath touch me, I said I felt like I had been stabbed all over. All though he never laid a finger on me, he gave me plenty of mental and emotional abuse.
I have a feeling its 2 years of being TIRED and worn to a pulp emotionally by his wordy games.
sleep loss is another big thing ive experienced since this s path during and after i still have trouble sometimes sleeping, like my mind will not shut off. and during being with the s apth i was trying to work out what the hell was going on and trying to work things ou in my head stopped me from sleeping well. which makes your head even more clouded.
Talking about physical consequences of being around bad stuff for seven years in my case, I don’t know if this applies but there is one thing that makes me think is the fact that my blood pressure got so much better. I used to have high blood pressure during the last four years with him. Since I left him for almost six months I don’t even need to take medication and I’m sleeping so much better these days.
Anytime we are trying to fix someone else, we are off track. I just work on me now. If I see someone other than me that needs work”¦ I feel TIRED. No can do!
Dr. Steve: I would so much appreciate a forthcoming post about physical consequences or PTSD of an association with a Sociopath. Nearly 5 months hence, and past the “why” and figuring out the “puzzle” (identifying him as a sociopath and doing intensive investigation/research as to who he really is and what he has done), there is still a lot of emotional pain
Have you noticed anything similar? How do you understand/make sense of this ‘translation’? Have you managed to deal with such an ailment or overcome it? How exactly
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In future posts I will write more on the interaction between experience, the mind, and the body. I will present some ideas of how/why it is that a interpersonal situation can have bad effects not only on one’s mind but on one’s body. Also, I will introduce some exciting research on what you can do to help repair the damage psychological distress mave have contributed to your body.
call a prayer line if YOU cant handle it , they will help you pray
thanks for all your words and thoughts. i mean that. somtimes i think hes not too bad henever took money and supports himself financially and he is kind to children even though we dont have any. but i know there are other parts of him that classic s path the lies and deception mainly. sometimes i dont contact him for ages and he eventually contacts me sometimes we dont hear anything for a long time. you know it feels like he is punishing me for something i did or something another woman did to him. i am trying to meet new people i am on some dating sites. i think lonliness is a big factor in my contacting him so i f i can fix that i may less likely to need to contact. but i feel this nagging need to keep tabs on him it s very strange but i think i want to observe him getting into more trouble and hope that he does its not even for my own need to see him anymore. also the new girls will never know about me and they wont come to me for help cause he will lie about me i know hes done this before he makes out i hurt him and that i am a bad woman. so why would they ever try to find me for help. i m sure he doesnt even tell them my name he never tells me there names or tells the truth about what hes doing with them he keeps it all secret and seperate so no one knows about the others and he gets away with it like its full proof. when i met him he told me his then ex was a self righteous bitch. now i think shes probably a nice girl who he f……. over completely. he also said to me in regards to her i can be a mean bastard but im polite. now i know cause hes treating me the way he treated her. if i have other friends in my life i feel stronger even towards him like im not scared of saying things to him cause i dont really care if i ever hear from him again. but when i have no one like now, i am scared to say to him what i really think. i wish i could find out these girls names and just leave a few hints as to what he is like it makes me so mad he is being all sweet and nice to them. totally charming i bet. i had him up on the website dont date him girl but i took it down i was scared he would findout it was me. i dont think the young girls he gets in with even look at those web sites but i think i am going to put his name back on there with not much details to reveal its me . yep im goin to do that today right now. you know this is really sad and im embarrassed to tell anyone but when it was my birthday he never even rang me we were suposed to be freinds at this stage i always ring him just to say happy birthday. anyway he never range me said he was busy and was going to call me later. then when we did get together after my birthday had gone like a week later he came over and we got pizza for lunch he had no money so i had to pay for the pizza he usually pays his way but he was starting a new job. that was the last time i saw him so when he sent that maessage saying; it s m y friends birthday and were having lunch at ……… it really hit home and i thought yeh i bet he pays for her. i feel like telling him to pay me back the money for the pizza now hes working his new job just to let him know he cant treat me like that i never buy lunch for any guy i know its usually the other way round. anyway does anyone else feel like they want to get revenge and play them at their own game. i really feel like that right now. thanks for all your kindness everyone of you and it helps me to vent on here. i will try to be strong.
Tami Newman said, “I was devastated and felt I had lost the love of my life and my best friend.” I felt exactly the same. My S lived with me for 3 years, during which time he was always timely, came home every night, and we talked on the phone 5-6 times per day. I did not EVER worry about where he was or what he was doing as I trusted him implicitly. Not only was he a great lover, but also my best friend (so I thought). Within 4 days of the last time I spent the night with him (after he moved out) he was in Vegas with the new victim, and has now moved into a million dollar house with her…(her money down, of course) and obviously the Vegas trip was planned, but he didn’t even tell me he was seeing someone and I thought we were working on getting back together. Now he is “hiding”, from creditors, from the IRS, from everyone as he uses his PO Box for everything. He had 2 cell phones that I knew of when he lived with me, and upon investigation I found he had another one, and recently signed up for a fourth!! He has really sped up his MO….he wants to be a millionaire by the time he’s 60 (he’s 54) and he knows he cannot achieve this goal by legal or ethical means. EVERYTHING for him is all about the money, and secondly the show.
As soon as he was out of the house, he was overtly hostile, calling me names, hanging up on me, accusing me of having an affair (he did) and subjecting me to intense emotional abuse. I thought he had a brain tumor because of the rapid change of behavior.
I slept wonderfully when with him, but gained 20 pounds in 3 years which I have now lost (misery diet). I have had EXTREME anxiety, symptoms of depression, difficulty sleeping, difficulty focusing (particularly on my job) and have been consumed by figuring out “who” he really is and what he has been doing (fraud in relationships and finances).
Like Tami Newman, I have contacted the new girlfriend but was met with denial and open hostility. I believe he has told her either I want him back or that I am “Psycho B”. Neither is the case. I will not contact her again.
I so much agree with Tami Newman who said “I cannot override his lies!” and alohatraveler, who said, “It’s the classic mind-f- – -”. Yes to both. I have dated, and loved, many men in my life. I cannot even say that I loved the S the most, but I TRUSTED him with every fiber of my being, and that is what is difficult, the EXTREME SENSE OF BETRAYAL.
I very much relate to change06, who said, “They have created an addiction in us”. Yes, an emotional addiction, a security addiction, and a sexual addiction. The combination of these is very powerful. Friends and family members don’t understand, it’s always “just move on” and they don’t realize the mind f— and the emotional rape and violation that penetrates the soul. I have never experienced anything like this with any relationship, he had me entirely fooled.
I am thankful every day that I have the CAPACITY TO FEEL, even though feeling hurts sometimes. We all have the capacity to LOVE, and that is a blessing.
Hello Jules!!! OMG, You are making me look deeper into my own scenerio!! First of all, he had money when he was with you because he was either getting it from someone else and using it for you- or using his own money for the time– thinking he was going to get something from you (Whatever that was for him). Could have been anything from sex, career move, contacts, easy life, money whatever. When he realized he couldn’t (by the time of your birthday) he had no money and YOU had to pay for the pizza on that DAY!!!!-YOUR BIRTHDAY!!! Please—- I hear your story and your repeating all about him (which is fine I still do) BUT you cant heal if its not about you and not about the other girls or what he is doing!….YOU have to take a deep breath and STOP!
PUT him down! If you cant forever then start for awhile. Work on yourself Girl!!! Take baby steps, one good thing for you.
righteous woman,
I am copying your words: “Always remember, any type of communication is based on a lie, and is only to fulfill some purpose for him…” and am going to tape them to my fridge.
jules,
I can so relate to how you are feeling. The past week has been rough for me. I’ve been feeling lonely and on the verge of tears almost all the time.
A few days ago my S husband called under some pretense (as usual). Later I realized that his main reason for calling was to prod me to “make a decision” to file for divorce (he wants me to file so he can “prove” to others that a divorce is not what he wants) so he can give K (the other woman) some kind of timeline.
(I can see online that K’s divorce is not yet final (she filed last March 28) and she has a new lawyer. Problems, sounds like. I’m sure her husband is not going to roll over and play dead for her, not after everything she has done.)
Anyway, when my husband called, he started whining almost immediately. He’s working his ass off; he never has enough money. I told him he has more extra money than I do and that he is just trying to make me feel sorry for him and that is so classic. He said to quit interrupting and listen. He has no social life, his life is so empty, all he does is work work work and go to AA meetings. I told him I didn’t want to hear about his social life. He said he was wondering when I would make my decision. I said I thought it was already clear that we would soon be discussing the dissolution of our marriage. We ended up in an argument and he hung up on me.
I called him back but he wouldn’t answer. I decided okay, I would leave him a voicemail. So I wrote out what I wanted to say, basically saying…well, here, I’ll just copy and paste some of what I said:
“As I’ve said before, I finally get it that everything with you is a manipulation. Everything. As much as I would love for you to be the man you fooled everyone into thinking you are, you are not that man. You never were and you never will be. You can’t be.
“So all I can do now is protect myself and the ones I love. You’ve hurt so many people and you probably don’t even care. Probably all you care about is how much this is all going to cost you. Or what if people find out? You don’t even have the courage or integrity to admit what you’ve done. All you can do is keep trying to make everyone think it is all in my head. Well that may work with your co-workers and AA buddies, but it will no longer work with me.
“I know that for 18 years all it took was one sweet word from you and I was putty in your hands. Who would have thought that someone who sounded so loving could actually be so cold-blooded? Certainly not me. I believed in you. We all believed in you. We believed in you and you betrayed us and now you don’t even have the decency to admit the truth.
“I have to stop hoping you will. I have to accept that you won’t. No matter how many AA meetings you attend or how many times you hear chap. 5 of the big book, it makes no difference. You lie to everyone. You probably even lie to yourself. I cannot believe anything you say.
“I took a closer look at the Pepboys tire receipt and the mechanic documented three times in writing that you were advised of the repairs that needed to be done on the car.
“I know you are a threat so I want to inform you that I have shared my concerns with the appropriate people and also that I have started a blog. In it I am documenting everything. So if you have the notion that you can get rid of your problems by getting rid of me, I want you to know it will not work. No matter if it looks like an accident or that you are in no way involved, you will be revealed for what you are. I have given instruction to family and friends. Also, I have three contacts among people you work with, so you’ll be exposed to your co-workers too. I hate to have to tell you all this because I loved you so dearly, but now I must look out for myself and those I love even if it means making shocking–but well-founded–accusations.”
Now, I do realize that saying all that to my husband was a complete waste of breath. Well, except for informing him of my blog and, okay, I did throw in one “Go to your dumpy little harlot!” and that was quite therapeutic. But, otherwise, nothing I say to him will make any difference to him. There is no point to make, no argument to win, there will be no last-minute conversion. I’m still at times operating as if he were a normal person, as if I can appeal to emotion or reason. But I can’t. It’s hopeless.
The part about the blog probably got to him because he texted me later and asked if he could call me when he got off work. He was all sweetsie and like a dope I tm’d him and said he could call.
And the sad thing is, I wanted him to call. I still get that flutter when my damn cell phone rings. It’s pathetic (although I say that with kindness towards myself). He called and of course I felt confused. I lost that clarity that only “NO CONTACT” can bring. He sounded sincere. Said he was sorry, he’s learning his lesson. He’s working his AA program and he thinks it’s the right path and he’s sorry he didn’t do this 25 years ago and I say I’m sorry too and by conversation’s end I had at least one toe in the water again.
Later I was able to bring myself back to reality. Wake up, Self! All he cares about is getting on my good side. One more manipulation. HE IS THE LIE!! (Thanks to whoever said that, I think M.L.) He doesn’t want me angry, oh no, he does not want me angry. Plus he wanted to know what I’ve told our 17 year old daughter. Squirm squirm squirm. Does she know about the brakes? I’m sure that was his true underlying question.
I told him I haven’t talked to her about him in months. She won’t let me. (She has this No Contact rule down good, and I didn’t even have to tell her.)
He said he wasn’t asking when did I last talk to her, but what have I told her? Hmmm…I told her she knows the basic story about him and K, but I have not talked to her about all the other women.
And I left it at that and he had to let me leave it at that because if he had come right out and mentioned the brakes it would have indicated a consciousness of guilt, and he knew it.
Before he said good-bye he asked me to tell her that he misses her and that he really wants to talk to her.
I’m sure he does. He knows that if he could just talk to her he could work his voodoo on her mind. He is utterly confident of his ability to persuade. And with good reason, I suppose. If I ever mention that someone thinks ill of him, he’ll say that if he could talk to them they would think different.
And the scary thing is, he’s probably right!
My God, he can still get my mind all tangled up and I’ve seen all the evidence!
After I hung up I told my daughter what he said and, no surpise, she said she didn’t want to talk to him. I asked if she thought she ever would and she said, “Probably not.”
She is suffering. She misses her “family.” But she sees her father for what he is, saw through him way before I did, and she’s probably further ahead in her healing because of it.
I spent yesterday with a couple of friends. But all day I was feeling that sadness. I know it’s something I have to go through and I don’t want to. It’s too painful.
And when I feel that way, my future looks bleak. He was my life. I thought he loved me. Am I worthy at all? Am I lovable? And all those thoughts go through my mind and it seems like so much work to invent my life all over again. Gillian: single woman. Gillian: soon living alone. Gillian: (and now I’ll think of some good stuff): the good friend. Gillian: the writer. Gillian: the loving mom. Gillian: the adventurer. Gillian: the decent person.
The funny thing with my case is that, when I first starting seeing him, I remember one girl we had met with abunch of his friends who kept asking me so many personal questions that I got irrirated…looking back, she may have been trying to warn me..
I also remember another guy who asked me where I had met him, and I said a party, then he was liuke,.hmm good guy good guy, I knew he wanted to say something else, but he didnt know me well enough..I wish people will just come out and say whatver without fear the person will get mad at you…its afterall saving someone life
His facade is so normal, he attract people in hoards to pay homage to him and his intelligence..I dont understand how none can get past that facade..that facade of extreme charm and politness..they all think he is the greatest thiun since slice bread and that always ate that me in that I thought I was the one with the problem when everone was singing his praise, I the spoilsport had issues and so I simply couldnt make things work
Hmmm..I have my good days and some bad ones , but working on converting it all to good..I guess my one thing now is that is he could be in a “relationship” with someone how come he dindt try to be in one with me…its like he emotionally raped my sould..did he even think of the consequences of his actions on others., I guess not..
Sometimes he gets this tortured look on his face when he hurts me, and you think it because of you but apparently as I was told once, it had nothing at all to do with me
Breathe..too much time wasted, but I have to believe in Gods master plan for my life or I will give up too soon, because sometimes the pain gets a bit much and I feel so oooo stupid because there was a lady who warned me and I dont think I ingnored her warning, but I thought how could you possible kow him adn she didnt, she took one look at him and was like this guy is no good..it helped with my descicion when I first broke up with him….but I guess for some strange reason I was hooked, I just couldnt understnad it, I even stopped drinking in his presence so I could keep a straight head because I thought he was putting somethign in my drink..that helped tremendously..till thst time, I never drank in his presence or anythign he has to offer..he could never have sex without dousing himself in wine
1. The funny thing with my case is that, when I first starting seeing him, I remember one girl we had met with abunch of his friends who kept asking me so many personal questions that I got irritated”looking back, she may have been trying to warn me..
I also remember another guy who asked me where I had met him, and I said a party, then he was like,.hmm good guy good guy, I knew he wanted to say something else, but he didn’t know me well enough. I wish people will just come out and say whatever without fear the person will get mad at you”its afterall its saving someone’s life
His facade is so normal, he attracts people in hoards to pay homage to him and his intelligence..I dont understand how none can get past that facade..that facade of extreme charm and politness..they all think he is the greatest thing since slice bread and that always ate at me.. in that I thought I was the one with the problem when everyone was singing his praise, I was the spoilsport who had issues and so I simply couldn’t make things work
Hmmm..I have my good days and some bad ones , but working on converting it all to good..I guess my one thing now is that if he could be in a “relationship” with someone how come he didn’t try to be in one with me”its like he emotionally raped my soul..did he even think of the consequences of his actions on others., I guess not..
Sometimes he got this tortured look on his face when he hurts me, and you think it because of you but apparently as I was told once, it had nothing at all to do with me
Breathe..too much time wasted, but I have to believe in Gods master plan for my life or I will give up too soon, because sometimes the pain gets a bit much and I feel so oooo stupid because there was a lady who warned me and I don’t think I ignored her warning, but I thought how could you possible know him and she didn’t, she took one look at him and was like this guy is no good..it helped with my decision when I first broke up with him”.but I guess for some strange reason I was hooked, I just couldn’t understand it, I even stopped drinking in his presence so I could keep a straight head because I thought he was putting something in my drink..that helped tremendously..till that time, I never drank in his presence or anythign he has to offer..he could never have sex without dousing himself in wine
One ot the things that gave me courage in the early days was reading several baords, it gave me anunerstanding of something I never understood for so long and I was able to move forward with seeking closure
there was a book onreview on amazon about how to deal with a narciccit and it was really eye opening..the woman questioned the writer as to why she should encourage people to DEAL with a narciccist…she mentioned she lived with one and that she advise to FLEE RUN AVOID THEM
…So I again I found this online: it was made up of different bits and pieces from here and there…
__________________________
Diagnostic Features:
Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance, need for admiration, extreme self-involvement, and lack of empathy for others. Individuals with this disorder are usually arrogantly self-assured and confident. They expect to be noticed as superior. Many highly successful individuals might be considered narcissistic. However, this disorder is only diagnosed when these behaviors become persistent and very disabling or distressing.
RELATIONSHIP
The early days of the dating is fast, furious, and vastly romantic. Oftentimes marriage proposals come within a few weeks. The “victim” sees the narcissist as the “Perfect Partner”. She’s never met someone so wonderful in her lifetime and falls head-over-heels in love. The two go on to live happily ever after – or so she thinks – until the “real” partner surfaces. The once wonderful Dr. Jekyll turns into the dangerous Mr. Hyde who quickly instills fear, anxiety, uncertainty, and total confusion to the relationship
You think you are in love. And you may well be. As the relationship progresses it becomes apparently clear to you that, unfortunately, the one you love is not reciprocating those feelings toward you. Your partner is, in fact, in love”only it’s with themselves. This can be very disheartening.
Certain narcissists are good at simulating emotional communication and can easily mislead people around them. Yet, their true colours are exposed when they lose interest in someone because he no longer serves a narcissistic (or other) purpose. Then they no longer invest energy in what, to others, comes naturally: emotional communication. This is the essence of the narcissist’s exploitativeness. To a certain degree, we all exploit each other. But, the narcissist abuses people. He misleads them into believing that they mean something to him, that they are special and dear to him, and that he cares about them. When they discover that it was all a charade, they are likely to respond much more forcefully than usual.
The narcissist’s problem is exacerbated by being constantly abandoned. It is a vicious cycle: the narcissist alienates people and they leave him. This, in turn, convinces him that he was always right in thinking that people are selfish and will always prefer their self-interest to his welfare.
His off putting behaviour is, thus, enhanced, leading to yet more serious emotional ruptures with his nearest and dearest.
“Evidently, he who is not in touch with his emotions ”“ finds it impossible to communicate them”
Complications:
Vulnerability in self-esteem makes individuals with this disorder very sensitive to criticism or defeat. Although they may not show it outwardly, criticism may haunt these individuals these individuals and may leave them feeling humiliated, degraded, hollow, and empty. They may react with disdain, rage, or defiant counterattack. Their social life is often impaired due to problems derived from entitlement, the need for admiration, and the relative disregard for the sensitivities of others. Though their excessive ambition and confidence may lead to high achievement; performance may be disrupted due to intolerance of criticism or defeat. Sometimes vocational functioning can be very low, reflecting an unwillingness to take a risk in competitive or other situations in which defeat is possible. Individuals with this disorder have special difficulties adjusting to growing old and losing their former ?superiority?.
This is from Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. and I suggest you read it when you feel powerless or hopeless or crazy.
SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
Most people feel victimized by narcissistic forces and narcissists. This is because they have felt consistently oppressed, suppressed, or frustrated by narcissistic forces This becomes problematic in terms of achieving sustainability. When one is in a “victim state,” one sees the oppressor as the enemy, as the one with the power, and as a result, the victim is easily manipulated into frustration and anger. The narcissist will utilize this dynamic to incite people into emotional states which can be exploited into distractions from the core issues.
Skills for dealing with attempts to intimidate can be divided into two areas, intrapersonal and interpersonal. Intrapersonally, it is essential not to react. This means that reactions of fear, impatience, or anger are not practical. In their place should be patience and curiosity. On an interpersonal level, responses and questions like, “that’s interesting; could you explain
that?; or, “I am not clear about that; would you please clarify (or elaborate)?; or, “it seems like there is a contradiction in your logic.” All of these can generate positive results in terms of reducing the control of the narcissistic forces. This is done through the non-reaction, which communicates, “you are not so powerful that you can manipulate me, or us, and distract
us from the issue. It is also done through the questions which communicate, “I/we are not afraid of you; we are not leaving the space/situation to your control alone; we will challenge you if necessary; you cannot win through intimidation or disinformation.”
Excellent individual emotional boundaries are so critical for dealing with narcissism.These emotional boundaries prevent the force of the narcissism emotions from throwing an individual off balance. The emotional boundaries are also helpful in not taking the narcissism’s actions or positions personally.
The narcissist, consumed and driven by the grandiosity, feels responsible for everything; therefore, all failures, frustrations, and disappointments are its fault, and are directed personally at it. In interacting with narcissism, one does not want to fall into the narcissist’s world and take what is going on personally. Narcissism’s actions are indiscriminate. They are directed toward any object, person or group that threatens its control, domination and grandiosity. An excellent emotional boundary system does not allow the force of another person’s emotions to penetrate one’s own personal space.
Course:
Narcissistic traits are very common in adolescents, but most adolescents grow out of this behavior. Unfortunately, for some, this narcissistic behavior persists and intensifies into adulthood; thus they become diagnosed with this
This is from Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. and I suggest you read it when you feel powerless or hopeless or crazy.
SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
Most people feel victimized by narcissistic forces and narcissists. This is because they have felt consistently oppressed, suppressed, or frustrated by narcissistic forces This becomes problematic in terms of achieving sustainability. When one is in a “victim state,” one sees the oppressor as the enemy, as the one with the power, and as a result, the victim is easily manipulated into frustration and anger. The narcissist will utilize this dynamic to incite people into emotional states which can be exploited into distractions from the core issues.
Skills for dealing with attempts to intimidate can be divided into two areas, intrapersonal and interpersonal. Intrapersonally, it is essential not to react. This means that reactions of fear, impatience, or anger are not practical. In their place should be patience and curiosity. On an interpersonal level, responses and questions like, “that’s interesting; could you explain
that?; or, “I am not clear about that; would you please clarify (or elaborate)?; or, “it seems like there is a contradiction in your logic.” All of these can generate positive results in terms of reducing the control of the narcissistic forces. This is done through the non-reaction, which communicates, “you are not so powerful that you can manipulate me, or us, and distract
us from the issue. It is also done through the questions which communicate, “I/we are not afraid of you; we are not leaving the space/situation to your control alone; we will challenge you if necessary; you cannot win through intimidation or disinformation.”
Excellent individual emotional boundaries are so critical for dealing with narcissism.These emotional boundaries prevent the force of the narcissism emotions from throwing an individual off balance. The emotional boundaries are also helpful in not taking the narcissism’s actions or positions personally.
The narcissist, consumed and driven by the grandiosity, feels responsible for everything; therefore, all failures, frustrations, and disappointments are its fault, and are directed personally at it. In interacting with narcissism, one does not want to fall into the narcissist’s world and take what is going on personally. Narcissism’s actions are indiscriminate. They are directed toward any object, person or group that threatens its control, domination and grandiosity. An excellent emotional boundary system does not allow the force of another person’s emotions to penetrate one’s own personal space.
I found the book I critics I was looking for
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572243546/002-9076353-9739266?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance