Several readers of Lovefraud have mentioned medical problems that arose in their lives with psychopaths. These readers are convinced that the psychological stress and pain of these relationships translated themselves into physical ailments. Some of these symptoms disappeared when the psychopath disappeared, some didn’t. Here are a few recent comments:
When I parted from him, physically I felt so raw and sore, I looked like I had been in a boxing ring. My health was poor and I couldnt even have the osteopath touch me, I said I felt like I had been stabbed all over. All though he never laid a finger on me, he gave me plenty of mental and emotional abuse.
I have a feeling its 2 years of being TIRED and worn to a pulp emotionally by his wordy games.
sleep loss is another big thing ive experienced since this s path during and after i still have trouble sometimes sleeping, like my mind will not shut off. and during being with the s apth i was trying to work out what the hell was going on and trying to work things ou in my head stopped me from sleeping well. which makes your head even more clouded.
Talking about physical consequences of being around bad stuff for seven years in my case, I don’t know if this applies but there is one thing that makes me think is the fact that my blood pressure got so much better. I used to have high blood pressure during the last four years with him. Since I left him for almost six months I don’t even need to take medication and I’m sleeping so much better these days.
Anytime we are trying to fix someone else, we are off track. I just work on me now. If I see someone other than me that needs work”¦ I feel TIRED. No can do!
Dr. Steve: I would so much appreciate a forthcoming post about physical consequences or PTSD of an association with a Sociopath. Nearly 5 months hence, and past the “why” and figuring out the “puzzle” (identifying him as a sociopath and doing intensive investigation/research as to who he really is and what he has done), there is still a lot of emotional pain
Have you noticed anything similar? How do you understand/make sense of this ‘translation’? Have you managed to deal with such an ailment or overcome it? How exactly
—————————-
In future posts I will write more on the interaction between experience, the mind, and the body. I will present some ideas of how/why it is that a interpersonal situation can have bad effects not only on one’s mind but on one’s body. Also, I will introduce some exciting research on what you can do to help repair the damage psychological distress mave have contributed to your body.
I used to call the S to come get his son because I wasn’t gonna let him ‘wiggle out’ of his responsibility, his promises, his custody agreement That turned into a whole new type of stress, arguments, waiting..phone calls unreturned, and waiting..did I say waiting?..All this responsibility on me. I gained 50 pounds (after years of skipping meals etc to keep my weight down..hmmmm I wonder why I was so worried about my weight??) developed high-blood pressure and finally diabetes. Finally, I said…It is not anymore my responsibility to make sure my son has a relationship with his father, than it is for my son to have a relationship with anyone in his paternal side of the family. His father is an adult, he knows where his son is…he knows what he promised…I am going to go on about my life..when his father wants to see him, he will arrange it…I shrugged my shoulders, and resisted any and every instinct that wanted to see the two of them have a relationship. I realized, when it came to the Sociopath, that hope was my enemy…it WAS the last thing out of Pandora’s box. I had been suffering from hope about 17 or 18 years at that point. I wasn’t being a good role model to my son, I was letting his father get under my skin, and yes, I reacted in, what is now, very embarrassing ways…embarrassing because A) I was caught in the act and B) I was treated like crap..yet there I was, begging for more??? I was really standing up for myself..refusing to get kicked around like a doormat..but he found other ways to make me feel like Sh!&.
So, it wasn’t so much no contact, as I treated him like anybody else…He was far from special..really no good for our son…So he didn’t call, oh well…so he didn’t take his son anywhere, oh well…I dealt with that by really getting into the character of the person we were dealing with…I explained that every single adult has a responsibility to their child..they either want the relationship, or they don’t, and actions speak louder than words. Pointed out all of the times my son knew I crawled the walls waiting for his dad to show up or whatever, and I said I wasn’t going to do it anymore. And when the S just faded away…and my son broached the subject of his fathers irresponsibility, etc..it opened the door to communication…I could slowly, but surely, show my son the flaws in his fathers character versus what is acceptable by society. And since his father wasn’t visiting, or communicating…it was like falling out of bed…would like not to do it, but it had to be done. You know, I know his father is sick..he has behavioral disorder…and this was discussed with my son. My son also went and took some psychology courses during the summer at the junior college for extra credits for high school (they transfer the credits in the district)..my son gets sociopathy. He is educated, informed, and aware based on facts. His father is incapable of love…and there are several other people in my sons life, and to my sons knowledge, that have been exposed to his father, and that just affirms this assertion. Once I relaxed, and let it be what is was, my son was able to receive information to process and make his own decisions, but, also decisions that are taught based on logic and reason…just like we don’t touch a hot stove…unfortunately..this type of human is no different, HE is IN FACT, a hot stove..He will hurt us.
I bet you anything..If you were calling to firm up these dates…stop…If you want to go do something without the 14-year-old, go..he is old enough to take care of himself. Get him a cell phone, and if his dad comes by or what have you..you want a phone call..no different than if he had tentative plans with school friends….I shrug my shoulders..I make a face like Robert DeNiro thinking something is not worth it. Go on and live your life and encourage your son to do the same.
PS. Righteous woman is for Righteous indignation.
TRyingtorecover, the “memory loss” is a “normal response” to all the stress you have endured. I literally had amnesia on some things. Short term memory loss big time, and I am a registered Nurse Practitioner and I retired because of it (among other things) How could I take care of patients when I couldn’t remember what I had said or done for them?
I couldn’t “organize” myself out of a paper bag. This from a woman that could MULTITASK with the best of them, I got to the point I couldn’t SINGLE TASK. I was distractable like an ADHD kid. Jumping from one thing to another with no idea where I had been.
Dr. Viktor Frankl, who wrote a book called “Man’s search for Meaning” after being in the Nazi concentration camps (talk about stress!) says that “A normal response to an abnormal situation would be abnormal.”
The short term memory and other problems can also be part of the fact that we don’t sleep well either after all this. Our sleep is disterbed, and lack of good and restful sleep will “mess up your thinking” and memory.
The spelling thing is a big problem for me now, and word finding, yet, when I was given an IQ test, I scored in the same range I always have, in fact a point or so higher. Don’t ask me how, but I did. It did reassure me. My psychiatrist also says that my memory will get better as I heal. It is frustrating though at times as the ONE thing I could always count on was my mind!
I would suggest that you sit down with your son, at 14 he is big enough to see what is going on. Explain to him that YOU are NOT trying to keep him from visiting his father, and that you will let HIM (the son) make the arrangements anyway that is convenient for them. I will bet that your son gets tired of the “game” before long and quits calling his Bad Dad when he sees that the Dad doesn’t keep his agreements.
That takes the ball out of YOUR COURT and puts the visitation in HIS court. I would relax the rules completely and let him see your son when ever he wants to (which I bet won’t be much) and I would let the responsibility fall on HIM for keeping his promises to your son—NOT you. I think he is trying to “get to” you and punishing you by not sticking to the agreement. This way–you are not the bad guy any more, and you are not “protecting” your son from the TRUTH about his dad, as painful as that may be.
He may try to secduce your son for a while, but my guess is he will get tired of that if it doesn’t get a rise out of YOU.
OMG!!! Great minds think alike OxDrover!!!
Thank you righteous woman and OxDrover. Great advice. I know that I have to let go. I can’t protect him from everything. He needs to be able to protect himself. I love the hot stove metaphor, rw. I didn’t stand guard 24 hrs a day in front of the stove when he was a toddler. I taught him to know that hot stoves will burn. If you put in a simple form like that, it makes so much sense.
I guess the biggest reason I freak out when he’s in town is because I have this vision of Bad Dad getting POd and turning in front of a car so my son gets hit or something like that. He would drive crazy when he couldn’t control his temper and one time I didn’t know if he was going to put me into a tree. Usually they’re short bursts of rage and he gets himself back under control quickly. It would have to be the perfect situation because he can control his temper when he needs to. He’d have to be losing the gf and her money and have no other options for him to totally lose it. (He’d have to feel like he was losing control.) Right now he’s working his game so I don’t think I have to worry about that.
Thank you Ox Dover for sharing your experiences with memory loss. It helps to know other people have gone through the same thing and there’s hope. I’m in the process of finally moving from thinking about him and what happened to thinking about me and living my own life for the first time ever! I can feel the change, but sometimes I can feel myself holding on to thoughts of everything. I think it’s because once I totally let go, the person I thought I married will truly be dead to me. I think actually the real reason is fear of the unknown and having to build a new life from scratch. Scary stuff:) I have to stop hearing his voice in my head and know that I can do this and I will do this.
righteous woman, how did your son react to discovering his father could not love? ( I will never tell him his father doesn’t love him, but someday when he learns more about the PDs he going to know he’s not capable.) My counselor keeps telling me how a child needs to feel loved by their parents. No kidding. But, that’s not the reality. She says love is subjective. She doesn’t like the word. People love pizza. People love their children. It means different things to different people. She says he can’t love like you and I love, but he loves him to the extent he’s capable. But, if he loves him like he would an object, is that love? So confusing. Any thoughts from anyone?
Hi tryingtorecover,
Here is the deal…It is not that my son’s father does not love him. As an object, he simply adores him. My son’s father does not love. Period. He loves himself.
For example: Lets take this in a detached direction, but using the same subject matter…my own, personal sociopath (ie: my son’s father). My sons father has a daughter from another woman. (the woman and I get along great, and when he was living with her, her hair was falling out…get the picture on the short version of the backstory?) The mother had several issues going on, and, the daughter was beginning to suffer from daddy syndrome. So, when the daughter was 14, she went to go live with the S father. Ironically, he moved his daughter into MY old apartment, the one he insisted I give up to move in with him in a different part of town, then, when he and I ‘parted ways’ he got a new girlfriend. Moved the new girlfriend AND his daughter into the same exact apartment I shared with his son, and he had spent MUCH time at…but I digress…ANYHOW, the new girlfriend was 17 years his junior..he was 38, she was 21. He had told the girlfriend that he was 28 when they met..she found out later, from me, and other women she got in contact with that had dealt with him, and all about his various lies. She also saw the way he treated his daughter in general, like she was a piece of property, to be controlled, and he made many unreasonable, self serving requests of her..and the young lady eventually bailed….She, of course was paying the rent on the apartment, She left, he got evicted for non payment of rent, and he moved onto his current victim, a woman that is 6 years older than he is. (I mention her elsewhere in another blog – snapshots…she is now living in her snapshots, despite being cheated on in the house SHE provides for him).
So, he and the new victim have been co-habitating since 2005. Wasn’t sexual at first, but he seduced her…and she has been putty in his hands ever since (despite being cheated on, lied to, him not coming home, him telling her she was fat, unattractive, should get moles cut off of her face etc…You are getting the picture) The daughter has her own room, but she barely comes hom..she knows how he is, the lies are the hardest thing to take, because, when you really know him, you know what a bunch of BS he is laying down 24/7.
So the daughter turns 18 in August, it is October, and she is working, erolled in school, and has an active social life, like any 18-year old. She wasn’t able to walk with her class on graduation day because her dad would not take her to school on time, and her citizenship mark affected her being able to walk.
So the new victim is really being put things, but she won’t have him leave because “he can be such a nice guy”. She has been struggling to communicate with him, and his answer has been encouraged to relay things of concern to him only. He does not want to hear about her day, or her friends, or her family. Those things bore him. And she accepts this, but is struggling to find things to talk to this man about. The NV (new victim) has a daughter in high school with my son. So she tells on my son a few times because she is spying and reporting on my son to the S. What she doesn’t know, is I could care less what the S says to me about what my son is doing. He left it to me to figure out, so I am..He can’t get a rise out of me.
So, the NV daughter, tells her mother, that she thinks that the S daughter is doing drugs, that she lied about the graduation thing and a couple of other allegations that are so retarded that they are not even worth mentioning. The S throws himself into a ‘rage’ (by the way…all rages are real, but they are fake..they are done to assert control, i have a sneaking suspicion your S never got the car t-boned, or drove off a cliff with you or anybody else in the car, and never will, it might hurt HIM get it?), bursts into his daughters room and destroys all the belongings that can be broken or ripped from the walls and smashed….he tells his daughter to get the hell out and she is a liar and he won’t stand for it etc…So the daughter packs some things to leave. She is going to leave the house, and the stairs right out front are wet, she slips and gets big gash in her head and on her arm. The S comes outside, laughs and tells her that is what she gets and he refuses to take her to the hospital, with a head injury!!!
Now, I wasn’t there for this story I heard it related from HER mother and MY son. But the S loves no one. People are only tools, objects, to be utilized, or should I say used. He used his daughter because, I mean this, from talking to the past victim and current victim, that they were both made to feel guilty and concerned for the sake of the daughter…What they knew of her mother, she was a drug addict and a slut (TOTAL LIES) They didn’t know what would happen to the daughter, if they put the S father out…He used his daughter to obtain housing. The girlfriends did all the chauffering, clothes shopping, grocery shopping everything for the S daughter.
Yes, counselors would object to what solution worked for me. Love is love. If you love someone, as you know, they are a priority for you. I have had two best girlfriends since I was 5 and another since I was 12..my sons,sisters, mother and I have been friends for over 10-years now. I am not maintaining these relationships simply because they exist. I put effort into them, I call my friends, take them out to dinner when they are feeling down and had a hard day, a hard month. Our love is reciprocating, and deserved by all parties, and we maintain it. I am a loyal and loving person. You are a loyal and loving person…no one should be encouraged to love someone who takes other people for granted and treats them as objects. As one of my friends always says about my S “Cut him out like a cancer. ” My son accepts that his father can not love…it is not an evilness that is directed AT him by his father. And my son understands this. You need to make your son understand the same thing (after the contact starts to diminish) And please, oh please…do not encourage your son to call to set up dates….His father is responsible for that. If it doesn’t happen on the part of the adult, than it wasn’t meant to be. Children are not responsible for their parents…parents are responsible for their children..Type it out, Blow up the FONT – put it on your bathroom mirror. Live by that…It is not an opinion, it is a natural fact. That is teaching your son good morals so the cycle STOPS with his father…otherwise, you aren’t going to know your grandchildren, and the negative possibilities are endless…I have a duty to make my son into a man and a normal member of society…My son has to live by societies norms, not his own rules, like the S. Isn’t that what you expect of your son?? That is what I expect of YOUR son…do you get where I am coming from? I am saying this to strengthen you…Do not let the S opinions of you cloud your knowledge, …because he has, and will continue to plant the seeds of self doubt as long as you keep providing a nice tilled field.
Ok, I don’t know what else to say…
Hi to all that may come across this blog.
I want to write an amendment/disclaimer to my opinions above.
I fear I sound as if I am advising adversarial behavior. I am not. I was speaking in relation to my experience with an S that used my son to control, to control me, which he actually admitted. He picked my son up to get on my good side. Once he was on my good side, he went back to disregarding his child.
In what I was writing, in no way am I implying that an S parent, that takes an active interest in their child be made to ‘work’ for their visits with their child by having to overcome obstacles to get access to that child. If they show up on time and take an active interest, then it IS to naturally be assumed that perhaps this individual, although self motivated, may have a sincere interest in building a relationship. I fear I was walking the line of parental alienation. Which was not my intent.
If you have a S parent, that wants visitation and shows up on time, returns the child on time, although I think this would be rare (only because I think we are dealing with the same patterns generally) Then, this relationship should be allowed to unfold.
If you have a parent that is showing up, without being dragged or coerced, but refuses to put your child’s best interest at heart by returning the child on time (Mine used to bring our son home between 11pm to 2:00 in the morning on school nights), then the solution is to document these occurances, keep a journal. If they do not show up on time, or within a window of acceptable wait time, then go on about your business. But write it in the journal. If the S shows up 1 hour late (or MORE) and you are not there, waiting to hand over their child, with the blame game, they will say that YOU are making things difficult for THEM. This is why you need your journal…to document THEIR pattern of behavior.
And NONE of us want to have to go to court. NONE of us want to talk to a mediator. But some S are legal savvy to use the legal system to provoke us. (Mine isn’t like that, but yours may be). You want to document his lack of respecting the agreement, so a judge or mediator can SEE the pattern of behavior. You want to project that you are not being arbitrary..that the S is. Trust me…you will NOT have to take THEM to court to MAKE THEM visit their child on time.
Now, the older the child gets, the easier this gets. In most states, the age of 14 is the magic age that children’s desires are appreciated by the court. The child choosing whom they want to live with, and how often they want to visit the other parent is given greater appreciation.
Finally, when discussing the S parent with the child, it should be broached on the same conditions in which you discuss sex. If they are old enough to ask, they are at an age to receive information. They may not understand, but they can ask for clarification later when they have had time to think about it and request an expansion on your knowledge. And like discussing sex, always make sure it is age appropriate. You can’t discuss with a 5 year old, what you can discuss with your teenager.
The normal custody sharing agreement has two involved parents, working as a team for the child’s benefit. My S could fake this, or faked it from me ‘coaching’ him. When the child is younger, and the S doesn’t show up on time, and, in time, you see the behavior from your child (may possible be learned behavior)..you don’t berate the S, you explain that common decency and courtesy for other demands that you honor your commitments and have respect for all people involved. It is rude and inconsiderate to leave someone waiting. You can reflect on your own experiences, leaving the S out…So if the child offers this observation “Daddy’s/mommy’s always late” The answer is “yes..he/she is, and don’t we hate what it does to our day?” Berating the other parent is NEVER a good idea.
We are not teaching our children to hate, or disrespect someone that deserves respect. We can all teach our children right from wrong without disparaging their other parent. If that other parent disparages themselves, and your children see that this is behavior contrary to what you have taught, the other parent manages to alienate themselves. You don’t have to take any initiative at all.
I know this is an older post but, I did want to comment on it. Aside from depression that was so bad I became suicidal for a while. I also have PTSD now which is somewhat better after six months but, it’s still something to deal with. The biggest physical symptom I had though was that my thyroid totally shut down from STRESS. My doctor confirmed that this is what caused my thyroid to completely shut down. I lost a ton of weight suddenly and my hair was falling out like crazy, and I was so exhausted I could barely get through a couple of hours of work. Now because the sociopath had me so upset all the time I didn’t attribute my symptoms to something physical until my doctor decided to do a blood test when I complained of extreme fatigue.
I’m now on meds for the rest of my life and after a year they still haven’t got the doseage of the synthroid quite right but, it’s certainly better than it was.
So, depression *I am on celexa*, PTSD, and a non functioning thyroid.
The damage these people do is really not to be under estimated. I’m still going to be pulling myself out of this financial mess for years to come but, that’s the least of it over all. My son’s health and mine have both suffered. Meanwhile, as it goes with sociopaths he claims I am the bad guy while he waltzes off without a so much as a scratch or symptom at all. In fact he’s better off by far than when we met and I’m totally wiped out.
Yes, indeed, there is a physical consequence to exposure to a sociopath! I was married to one for nearly 15 years and was constantly sick, infected, falling, and sustaining haphazard injuries.
My personal belief is that the body must manifest whatever stress our emotions are experiencing. For me, the relationship was so abusive that my body released the level of stress in physical form.
Once I got out of the immediate environment and left him, I began to experience an incredible boost in health. I stopped getting sick all of the time and suffering injuries that were not abuser/victim related.
Does the sociopath experience physical consequences? I believe that they do, even if they aren’t immediately visible. My ex dropped dead of a massive heart attack at 50. Again, since the mind-body connection is so strong, that evil (and, that’s what I have to call it) has to manifest itself, somehow. If the sociopath isn’t sick all the time, themselves, then I believe that they are (like my ex) a ticking bomb. It takes an enormous amount of energy for a human being to live the way that sociopaths do. Rather than that energy being used for self-healing, it’s used to machinate and fabricate, thus leaving the sociopath with no healing reserves.
Just my take on it.
button – i think it would take NORMAL people a huge amount of energy to live a deceitful life being horrid to people, spaths, not so much.
if they don’t expereince remorse and guilt or fear in a normal way – then they are not going to release the chemicals that are part of the stress response, and which, when released in large quantities over time, cause stress related illnesses.
don’t know, but that your spath dropping dead @50 may have more to do with untreated high cholesteral, etc. it was also just very very lucky. 😉
Buttons you said “Does the sociopath experience physical consequences? I believe that they do, even if they aren’t immediately visible. My ex dropped dead of a massive heart attack at 50. Again, since the mind-body connection is so strong, that evil (and, that’s what I have to call it) has to manifest itself, somehow. If the sociopath isn’t sick all the time, themselves, then I believe that they are (like my ex) a ticking bomb. It takes an enormous amount of energy for a human being to live the way that sociopaths do. Rather than that energy being used for self-healing, it’s used to machinate and fabricate, thus leaving the sociopath with no healing reserves.”
well you’d think so.
I have marvelled(not the right word) at surely the effort the shit they spin takes…
But.. I am thinking from a ‘human’ not sociopathic perspective…