Most of the people who will be bad for us are not sociopaths, and so we want our radar to be sharp, not specifically for sociopaths, but for wrong, bad people of every stripe.
True, sociopaths will be terrible people with whom to enter relationships; in the end, though, they will represent a small fraction of a much greater majority of very wrong people for us.
As I suggested in a prior post, there are two keys to protecting ourselves from Mr. or Mrs. WRONG: The first is developing intelligent radar; the second is acting wisely on that radar.
After all, good radar, no less than good CIA intelligence, is useless if it’s ignored or devalued.
Now, are there cases of sociopaths (and the lot of devious personalities) so slick as to be undetectable until after they’ve wreaked their havoc? Of course there are; to suggest otherwise would insult anyone unlucky enough to have crossed paths with such destructive individuals.
Nevertheless, in most cases, the wrong person—sociopath or not—will and does leave clues much sooner than most of us want to admit (until much later).
WRONG, by the way, for whom? The answer, of course, is, YOU!
It is tempting and, at some point, I suggest, unfruitful to get stuck on the suspected psychopathology of a partner (present, or ex). Because when you get right down to it, there are only two diagnoses that really matter: Is this person, for me, RIGHT, and GOOD? Or WRONG, and BAD?
Only we can make this assessment, and it’s our responsibility, of course, to make it as soundly as possible. By soundly I mean being as honest with ourselves as possible, and keeping our best long-term interests uppermost in mind.
What, then, is the first—and, for that matter, second—telltale sign that someone is wrong, and really bad, for you, sociopath or not? (And speaking honestly, should we really need more than a sign or two?)
The answer is, ANY EXPRESSED BEHAVIOR or ATTITUDE that leaves you feeling disarmed or disoriented by its inappropriateness, selfishness and/or insensitivity.
Take great heed of such an experience, because almost always, it is a sign that more are sure to follow. In other words, preparing to bail at this point is a wise consideration.
Specifically, what behaviors and attitudes am I referring to? For starters, how about the first, surprising flash of rage, contempt, arrogance, selfishness, coldness, presumptuousness, dishonesty, indifference, ungratefulness, even denseness; shocking acts of abuse, verbal or physical; and startling failures of empathy, or compassion.
It is really less the behavior or attitude, per se, that screams ALARMING”¦prepare to BAIL!, than the experience of it as, “Where did that come from?”
I stress: It is our job, first, to register these signs; and then immediately to register them as alarmingly ominous.
The question is, Will you be willing to see what you’ve seen? Will you be willing to acknowledge the sobering portent of the display? Or instead, for any of a hundred conveniences, will you find ways to pretend you didn’t see it, and/or minimize the ramifications of what you’ve seen?
It is perfectly fine to ask, What, in a new relationship, should I be watchful for? What are the signs that my new interest may be someone different than advertised? I hope I’ve addressed these questions.
Then again, such questions tend, I think, to promote a view of the world as waiting to unleash upon us ruinous new bogeymen and predators, instead of encouraging us to examine what can be harder, but perhaps more honest, useful, retrospective questions, like, What did I miss? Why did I miss it? And if I registered it, why did I choose to ignore or minimize it?
Insight into, and resolution of, these latter questions can confer the best insurance against future exploitation.
In most (certainly not all) cases, it may be less important to be wary of the next nightmare disguised as Mr. or Mrs. SENSITIVE, than more careful of our always lurking capacity for defenses like denial, rationalization and minimization to blind us to what we don’t want to see, and do.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2008 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
But
If you from birth don’t learn basic norms! How as a Teen or an Adult are you going to relate any differently?
Try learning a language with a tape recorded language! no definition, this=that just the Language! It might as well be trying to learn Dolphin! LOVE JJ
“The answer is, ANY EXPRESSED BEHAVIOR or ATTITUDE that leaves you feeling disarmed or disoriented by its inappropriateness, selfishness and/or insensitivity. “
Would like to add the Ms. Right or Ms. Wrong which works in my case..
Anyway yes I agree that not all the people we may come into contact with would be (and Thank God for that!) an sociopath P or N. They may just not have the same moral understanding or social grace we may seek or want in a life partner. I had one such short term relationship that might apply with this matter.
She was dating a person (having a long distance relationship) who cause her a lot of emotional trouble with a man I believe to have some personality trouble and antisocial behavior. I tried to help her understand what might happen if she continue this dysfunctional relationship and the many red flags she was describing to me. She told me how many times this person would tell her how much money he had (guess he own his own roofing business) and how he would talk care of her because of all his money. She then told me she didn’t care about that on many occasions his money I mean. I soon developed strong feeling for her and let her know. She also stated she had some feeling for me as well. I was very happy about this and we continue to talk. Until one day she told me how this guy inform her that his (yes he was marry) wife had cancer and that he still wanted to be with her. Telling my friend not to worry and how after she died they could then be together. In fact he told her how (guess he worried how if he divorced his wife that his wife would get half of his money) he thought about killing his wife but didn’t want to go to prison. Now for some reason my friend entertain this ideal and later inform how she needed someone that would be able to support her in the life style she was accustom too insomuch about him having so much money and all. I was appalled at her actions and thoughts. How all the times she told me money wasn’t important to her and now how much it really was. I told her never to contact me again after this revelation and conversation. I thought this person was a good person insomuch that she was a good mother Christian and healing from one bad relationship. I still believe she is a good person but this shock and lie was just too much for me to bear. Believing that any person who didn’t care about another person who might (I still believe this guy lied to her about this) die of a illness or entertain any thoughts about killing someone is ethically and morally wrong. And that a person’s wish for a desired life style would justified these actions or thoughts albeit his her or them together. In short this conversation left me feeling sick and trouble afterwards….
“What, then, is the first—and, for that matter, second—telltale sign that someone is wrong, and really bad, for you, sociopath or not? (And speaking honestly, should we really need more than a sign or two?)”
For me one is enough and more so if it involves any type of lie or contradiction from that person in question….
After a year and a half of being free from my sociopath ex, I was open to dating again and did. I ended up dating a widower (no he didn’t kill his wife) with two children, 4 and 8. He was attractive, well employed and financially stable”everything a women would want”except”
On our second date he took me to an amusement park for the day. Things were going pretty well, although he was a bit dry and dull, we were having fun. As I spoke about some issues I was having at work (I’m a professor and department chair of computer stuff and was wrestling with some incompetencies within the college IT department) he called me “conceited” which caught me off guard for two reasons: one, it was pretty early in a relationship to make such critical comments and two, while I’ve been called lots of things this was not one of them.
Then, as the relationship progressed, he started to make comments about my weight. This was considerably alarming for, again, two reasons: one, what 42 year old man doesn’t know not to go there with a woman and, two, even though I’ve had two children I’m 5’6”, 133 lbs and fluxuate between a size 4 and 6!!! When I confronted him, he said “he preferred to be with someone thin but it wasn’t a deal breaker since he fell in love with the whole package”. I raised my voice I was so shocked and told him “I am thin what is wrong with you!” After that, I second guessed every compliment AND everything I put in my mouth. Rationally I knew I was considered by physicians to be a perfect weight for my size (which I was glad for since I have had problems with rapid weight loss) but emotionally it was controlling.
And then there was the time his four year old daughter wouldn’t stop doing something when they were at my house. He tried to put her in a time out, threatened he would take her home (which he should have), but she wouldn’t stay in the chair. He physically held her by the waist in the chair (causing red marks) while she screamed like she was being tortured. Both of my sons (2 and 14) were upset by the scene but all his 8 year old son did was hide in the kitchen and talk about how he wasn’t leaving until he’d had some of the cookies we had been baking together. When the scene was over, the guy I was dating let his daughter out of the chair and she and he joined us in the kitchen to eat cookies.
A few more insensitive comments on other subjects and total misreads of me and I ended the relationship after five months. He still doesn’t get why I broke up with him and still thinks he’s this perfect catch! I don’t’ think he’s an S or even an N but I sure know he’s not the one for me!!!
James,
I’m surprised you still think she might be a good person, if she did leave you with the full impression that she was ok with taking advantage of someone losing their life to obtain a plentiful lifestyle? It seems permissive…the same kind of permissive that’s allowed so many of us to forgive and look the other way; as this article addresses. Glad you didn’t…
Duped:
I guess your S slept through Sociopath 101 about how you’re supposed to drown your target with lavish praise and flattery to rope them in. Only after you’ve got them roped, pinned and tied do you start demolishing their egos!
Kudos to you for getting out as fast as you did. You obviously have a healthier sense of self-esteem than I ever did and realized that what you S was saying was (a) incorrect and (b) inappropriate.
Mine would never compliment me. But, if somebody else did, he would be sure to find some way to use it against me and further run me down.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about why I allowed this to happen. I know I was conditioned early on by my N parents.
My freshman year of college my grades started skidding. At the time I was in a suicidal depression but didn’t know it. My first semester cumulative average looked like a zip code in Connecticut (06…). The following statement from my N mother is indelibly burned into my brain: “I always said your siblings’ good looks and athletic prowess came from your father’s side of the family and your brains came from mine. Obviously I was wrong.”
I think that statement was worse than any beating or anything she ever said before that or after that. So, I have spent the last 30 plus years not seeing the truth staring me back in the window. I am a handsome and successful man.
But, by letting my mother (and father) define my perception as to myself, I set myself up beautifully for the S. When he started his controlling behavior I took it all. By the end all he had to do was cock his eyebrow and I’d be turning sommersaults trying to please him. It was humiliating.
Today I came across a photo taken at an event we went to last summer. I had never seen it. I looked at him — 65 pounds overweight, bloated and thought “Good God. He looks like Jabba the Hut and you look … really good.”
This was at the begininng of the end. And I was getting lots of compliments and attention from others at this benefit. And he must have been threatened, because that night when we returned he started another pity play, drunkenly mumbling “I have high blood pressure. I’ll probably have a stroke like my mother. And die.”
As more and more of these repressed memories come to mind I get madder and madder. But, I’m also grateful. The anger helps me to see things more clearly and is helping me to see what the reality of me really is. And I’m also grateful to the folks here at Lovefraud for the help you’ve given me and your understanding.
Matt,
I too had N parents and sibling to set the stage. My god mother raised me for the first three years of my life; which gave me a sense of self to over come the berating.
This last guy wasn’t my S…so I must say I’ve learned what I have the hard way already! Funny thing is, I think he thought he had me in tight enough to pull the control strings…which shows how little he really listened to me. Don’t know if he’s an S but certainly has control issues.
When I split with my ex S two years ago, I decided to take some time off from dating and romance myself a bit. I did what I wanted when I had the time to do so, bought myself flowers, read books that made me broaden my sense of spirituality and strengthened my relationships with my friends. It’s made a world of good in terms of how I approach new relationships and how I react when they turn out to not be what I want.
In order for us to be a target for bad people we must be good on so many levels. Good enough to love our selves…and that’s where the strength and power to move on, move forward, discriminate and let people in comes from.
Think about it ?
We percieve life through our own eyes , ears , smell , taste , touch , and intuition!
We seldom honestly take anyones advise! We see things as we want to see them!
there are two different approches , one we are self oriented , my way or the highway! two we want to serve others , some times at our own expence! Of course there are as many levels of these approches as there are grains of sand! Balance is the key! Love JJ
James,
QUOTE: “I still think she was a good person”
What’s good about her? She found out the guy lied to her, that he was married, he mentioned being with her after his wife’s death and that he would consider killing his wife but didn’t go to prison and she DIDN’T TELL THIS GUY TO HIT THE ROAD?
She may have SAID “money wasn’t important” but THAT WAS A LIE. NO ONE that wasn’t after money would stay with a man who was cheating on his dying wife, or any other wife for that matter.
She NEVER WAS A GOOD PERSON, but a pitiful fake and not real successful at picking victims. She may not have been a P or even an N, but I would “get the farm she was a Borderline Personality Disorder. They tend to be victims one day/year/month and abusers the next, and can turn in a flash.
James,
Listen to OxDrover,
She’s right. Listen to me too, ’cause I’m a woman and I know women well. That, and remember this old classic:
Supposedly told about George Bernard Shaw (some attribute it to Sir Winston Churchill).
Aristocratic lady and Shaw are talking at a party. Shaw asks if she would sleep with him for 1-million pounds. She agrees.
Then Shaw asks if she’d do it for five pounds. She replies, “What do you think I am?”
Shaw says, “We’ve already established what you are, ma’am. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”
I hope you laughed. Laughter is good for you!
Your lady friend wasn’t good, she was nice. Nice is not the same as good. Being nice made her socially acceptable, but not the kind of person you could count on. Charm makes people nice. Ethics make people good.
Ideally charm and ethics should come together in one delightful package, but if you have to choose, make it ethics!
Elizabeth,
That is one of my favorite stories!
Charm=nice
Ethics=Good
You are so right, and it is just that simple really. A person can be VERY CHARMING and have NO ETHICS, look at “Slick Willy” Bill Clinton, he is probably THE most charming person I have ever been in a room with (a couple of times when he was Gov. of Arkansas) but he has the ETHICS of an ALLEY CAT.
Unfortunately I have seen so many people (it seems mostly women) who are BOTH VICTIMS and ABUSERS and flip flop back and forth from one to the other, and James’s “friend” seems to be one of those. My X-DIL is a perfect example.
When we are giving empathy to fellow VICTIMS, we also need I think to keep an eye out for these people, because they can suck us in with a big PITY PLAY and we think that we connect with them because they are fellow victims and we can trust them.
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS BEEN VICTIMIZEED doesn’t mean that they can’t also be a victimizer. In the TRIANGLE there are THREE POSITIONS and people who are “victims” one minute can be in the VICTIMZER chair the next. I wish I could tell you how to spot them, with me it is almost a “6th sense” (like with my X-DIL I think I knew from the start when I met her and heard her tale of woe) My son fell for the rescue position to her victim position, but she quickly put him into the victim chair and kept him there, either that or he stayed in the rescue chair, until she went back big time into the persecutor chair. IT IS A NO WIN SITUATION. Some of them play hard-ball as well.
I am having to work very hard at staying out of the rescuer chair as well, it was what I was brought up with, to be either a victim or a rescuer, but I DON’T WANT TO PLAY ANYMORE. I want out of the game.
I am still willing to “help” but NOT rescue. And there is a “fiine line” that we have to walk between help/rescue, and between support/enabling. I’m still learning but I’m making progress. I think it is just like AA though, one day at a time.