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Rape by deception

Lovefraud recently received an email from a woman in Israel. She says that she was involved with a man for almost two years, and had sexual relations with him. He promised that they would marry and have children. The guy seemed to have a wife, but he claimed it was a fake marriage to get a passport. Well, he was, in fact, married and leading a double life—a con man. The woman is trying to get him prosecuted for “rape by deception.”

Yes, Israeli law includes the concept that consensual sex based on a false premise is rape. Here’s the actual law:

RAPE
345. (a) If a person had intercourse with a woman —

  • (1) without her freely given consent;
  • (2) with the woman’s consent, which was obtained by deceit in respect of the identity of the person or the nature of the act;
  • (3) when the woman is a minor below age 14, even with her consent;
  • (4) by exploiting the woman’s state of unconsciousness or other condition that prevents her from giving her free consent;
  • (5) by exploiting the fact that she is mentally ill or deficient, if — because of her illness or mental deficiency — her consent to intercourse did not constitute free consent.

then he committed rape and is liable to sixteen years imprisonment.

When I first heard of this law, I was amazed. A law like this actually exists? What a great idea! How many of us have been lured into sex through deception? My sociopathic ex-husband told me that he was a financially stable entrepreneur, a decorated war veteran and in love with me—none of which was true. I would be thrilled to have him prosecuted for his outrageous lies.

Israeli case

Only a few people have been prosecuted under the “rape by deception” provision in Israel. One case from last year was the subject of a lot of media hype.  It turned out to be a very bad case, unlikely to gather support for a law that many of us would probably like to see enacted here.

A man by the name of Saber Kushour was convicted of rape by deception because he led a Jewish woman to believe that he was a Jewish bachelor, and they had consensual sex. In fact he was a married Palestinian with two children. The woman filed a complaint.

Here is what Tzvi Segal, one of three judges in the case, said:

“The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price — the sanctity of their bodies and souls. When the very basis of trust between human beings drops, especially when the matters at hand are so intimate, sensitive and fateful, the court is required to stand firmly at the side of the victims — actual and potential — to protect their wellbeing. Otherwise, they will be used, manipulated and misled, while paying only a tolerable and symbolic price.”

You can read about the story, and the verdict, in Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with Jew on Guardian.co.uk.

As you would think by the above headline, the story touched off international criticism that the Israeli court was racist, and the law was a ploy to inhibit interracial dating.

Once details of the case were known, it got even messier. Apparently the woman, who was not named, approached Kushour as he walked out of a convenience store. Within 10 or 15 minutes of meeting, the two went to a nearby building and had sex.

The woman told police that she had been abused by her father since she was young and forced by him to become a sex worker. She also said that the sex wasn’t consensual; she was raped and left naked and bleeding.

Then it turned out that she had filed 14 previous rape complaints.  The prosecution agreed to a plea bargain, reducing the sentence to “rape by deception,” supposedly to prevent a long cross-examination of the victim. My guess is that the prosecutors decided the woman wasn’t credible, and if they took the case to trial, they would lose. The prosecution took what it could get. But Kushour thought the sentence was too long—18 months— and he is appealing his conviction. Read:

Saber Kushour: ”˜My conviction for “rape by deception” has ruined my life’, on Guardian.co.uk.

Arab rape-by-deception charge ”˜was result of plea bargain’, on Guardian.co.uk.

Israeli Palestinian man to appeal rape-by-deception conviction, on CNN.com

Possible in the U.S.?

So, could there be such a law in the United States? Actually, a few states have similar laws—California, Tennessee, Alabama and Michigan. They’re called “rape by fraud” or “rape by coercion” laws.

Back in 1995, Nashville, Tennessee was all a-twitter about the case of the “Fantasy Man.” Raymond Mitchell III, a 45-year-old businessman, took to calling women late at night. In a sexy whisper, he persuaded them to unlock their doors, undress, put on a blindfold, and wait for him in bed. At least eight women thought he was their boyfriend and had sex with him.

Mitchell turned out to be a man with a double life. By day he was a churchgoer who spent time with his ailing mother and helped raise a fatherless nephew. By night he was the Fantasy Man. Mitchell was convicted and sentenced to 15 years in prison for rape by fraud and attempted rape by fraud. Read:

Three accuse ”˜Fantasy Man’ lover of rape on LATimes.com

Rape by fraud guilty verdict on NYDailyNews.com.

”˜Fantasy Man’ going to prison on News.Google.com.

In a similar case in Massachusetts, the perp was not convicted. A woman lived with her boyfriend in the basement of his father’s home. Her boyfriend’s brother also lived in the house. One night, while the woman slept and her boyfriend was at work, a man came into the room. It was dark, the woman thought her boyfriend had come home, they had sex—but it was the brother.

The brother was prosecuted for rape. But because Massachusetts law specifies that rape requires force, and the sex was consensual, the state supreme court ruled that no rape had been committed.

Read Does sex through fraud constitute rape? On Salon.com.

I have a feeling that we’re not going to see many rape by deception laws. Even if the laws were enacted, they wouldn’t be enforced. I mean, most prosecutors won’t go after people who commit bigamy, so they’re unlikely to go after people who are slick enough to talk themselves into other people’s pants.


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90 Comments on "Rape by deception"

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Great article, Donna. Lots of food for thought here! Actually, there are plenty of RAPES by FORCE, DATE RAE, and rapes by pedophiles that are NOT PROSECUTED now, so I can’t see many if any prosecution of “rapes by fraud” when a guy tells someone he loves them and wants to marry them and he already has a wife or has NO intention of going further with the woman than the bed. Like we used to say “Lay down, I think I love you, get up, I’m not sure.”

It amazes me what some people will do in order to convince some gullible woman or man to have sex. On the case where the woman was a “sex worker” and had made many previous prosecutions, I do think they should have turned the guy loose on that one, the woman was obviously “problematic” with her own behavior and contributed to the situation, but if her FIRST story had been true, then I think he should have been prosecuted.

Anyway, lots of food for thought in these articles. Thanks!

I’m moving to Israel!

Wow, they are eons ahead of us. Brilliant law. Even moreso- how validating! And to think about in how many ways sociopaths would be limited in their machinations by this law… it really brings to the fore how important a country’s legislation is in doling out real justice and creating real, observable and tangible change.

What a smart law though, really. I mean it brings to question, why hasn’t this law already been realized in the US? It’s so freaking EASY to lie and take advantage of a woman ( or man ) sexually… ( and cause an inordinate amount of pain in that individual’s life as a result.. so much is at stake!) and under “American Law” the individual would be seen as having done NOTHING WRONG! Think about how many casualties would be spared if this law were to be observed here. I’m sure the CDC wouldn’t be complaining either.

Wow, pretty progressive laws in Isreal. I’m all in for that. It is amazing we don’t have something like that in the US. On the other hand, “deception” may be hard to prove.

At what point are we on to the con?

I do feel raped by my spath. I think that’s why it’s been so hard for me to recover.

At some point, I discovered the lies.

It was much later that I discovered that it wasn’t just a few lies, it was PURE EVIL at it’s core.

There is a big difference in the shock impact to me.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

PERFECT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE SPATH DID TO ME: RAPE BY DECEPTION!

There is a bit in Without Conscience where Robert Hare describes a female victim of a psychopath as saying “She has said that she wishes she had just been raped. Then it would be over with…”

It IS rape. Not only physical rape ( via deception ) but mental, emotional rape as well. A true mindfuck.

It is rape. It’s a disrespecting of boundaries, for one.
What about when you’re parents are guilty of it? Then it’s child mental rape.

Oh wait, what about when you’re government is doing it to you? What do we call that?

Bank rape, corporate rape, mortgage rape….

The irony is that my spath protected me from all the other types of rape. He wanted to be the only one.

There used to be laws against “alienation of affection” and a woman or man could prosecute (sue) the person who was the OW or OM in a marriage. Also tonight at my genealogy meeting we were talking about a man being criminally prosecuted for “seduction” of a young woman (getting her preg and not marrying her) This was in the early 1900s. Of course if she had been “lower class,” NOTHING would have been done, but she was from the “upper class,” so the man was prosecuted.

The betrayal of a person we loved/trusted is a form of emotional “rape” I agree….it is a VIOLATION of our most intimate selves. A physical rape is a violation as well of BOTH physical intimacy and emotional intimacy as well, but I am not sure that one kind is “worse” or “better” than the other. They are both devastating.

Proving physical rape, or assault or battery or stalking is difficult in a court, and I can only imagine that proving “deception” as a form of rape would be extremely difficult.

There are laws against murder and robbing banks but they happen every day and sometimes the bad guys still get away with it even with every effort made by the police to solve the crime and prove who did it.

Skylar,

Im so sorry.

Thank you ((Superkid)). I think that’s why they call it a Mind F**k.

Great article….I wish such laws existed here!!

Wow! How awesome for Israel. This SO resonated with me because I feel like I’ve been raped — emotionally, physically and financially! THe worst part is he’s not in jail and I can’t put him there for what he’s done to me. The irony in this whole thing is I was trying to do things “right” this time — no sex before marriage. Had i been intimate with him BEFORE saying I DO, I would NOT have married him….. because as soon as I got that close to him — i realized he was a fake and just pretending he loved me. I FELT it the moment we first had sex. I KNEW something was off…. and not to mention that he had a teeny male member…. had I seen it before, i would have had second thoughts just on that account alone!

THANK YOU DONNA!! Great article, this is very validating at the least! I have even told a few close friends “I feel like I have been raped”. I was absolutely raped by deception! I was nothing more than a pawn in some kind of sick game that he was playing and when our marriage was annulled based on fraud he simply moved on searching for the next victim. Correction…, he was looking for his next victim even through our very short marriage, I just didn’t know what a creep he was. He is a predator and he has several women on a string at all times because he knows it is only a matter of time before the women will figure out who he really is. I am haunted by the reality of the deep level of pure evil that this man lives out every day all the while claiming to be a man of God. It’s not just about what he did to me, It’s about how he seeks to use the position of ministry to get a person to trust him (He was a pastor.) The church has rescinded his credentials because of his behavior, but he just moved to the church down the street and he is all over the internet talking about love of God and seeking out porn and his next victim at the same time! This man has a very long criminal history and in the church he has found a way to make it work for his benefit, because he gives the credit for his “transformation” to this church or that church, this ministry or that ministry. And I have seen organization after organization eat it up, because we all LOVE a story of transformation!! Some of that is on us!! Even though he is lying and deceiving us, He is appealing to the idols of our heart and we need to be better at discerning that!! He uses our faith against us, it is a diabolical and intentional con for his benefit. If the church leadership is not very healthy and able to see through the lies and deception it sets up an atmosphere of tremendous devastation for the victims!! Shame on some unhealthy churches for throwing the victims of narcissistic sociopath predators under the bus so they can save face!! I don’t think there is anything more offensive to God!! It isn’t just physical, sexual, financial, emotional, psychological abuse, but spiritual abuse also…completely devastating!! Please understand that there are healthy churches out there, but I will be much more cautious to not blindly trust anyone just because they say they are a believer. The church leaders that stood up for this man had never checked out his background, they blindly trusted him, and that was wrong. When people put someone in a position of leadership or ministry in the church, it communicates that this is a trustworthy person. I should have checked him out before I married him, I should not have blindly trusted the church leadership!! I was greatly deceived, lesson learned.

Thank you Donna for posting my story.
Yes it is quite great Israel has such a law, but i am still fighting the police and prosecution to pay attention to the details and take this law seriously. Although it exists, many of the “law people” are too lazy to practice this law and are doing almost nothing in order to convict people by it.
And yes, it was a double life indeed.
Thank you for letting me know there was such a law in the United states, or similar, as you said.

Actually, the Israeli law is trying to put some boundaries about that law- not every cheating is rape by fraud. Mostly, it is when a guy lies at the beginning in order to get in bed with a woman, tells her something about himself that makes her want to sleep with him, if he didnt, she wouldnt have. The case is strongest if that man had pretended to be her boyfriend or partner in life, when he didnt have the intention to do so, when the woman tries to find out about his parents, hobbies, etc. The case with the palestinian was a bit different because the woman slept with him immediately and the court didnt know if her intentions were to have a family with him, this is why he was convicted only of 18 months imprisonment.

Dear Hosanna,

Thank you for that post! Good information, and unfortunately, Jesus was right in that “wolves in sheep’s clothing” have infiltrated many churches, or taken the leadership in them as well.

They use this position of trust to mask their deceptions…then if caught, just move on to another church group.

I’m glad you got an annulment and found your way here to Love Fraud. There IS HEALING, it is just painful, but hold on to your faith, just because there are wolves in sheep’s clothing doesn’t mean the message of PEACE is wrong, just that there ARE deceivers and psychopaths who will abuse others. Satan is alive and well, and his army is made up of psychopaths! But–they can’t win if we don’t let them! Stay strong! God bless.

I can see the difficulty in some crying rape with deception. With a cheating spouse, some women don’t ask a man if he’s married. They assume that he would tell them if he was. BUT a cheater is a deceiver and just b/c a woman is good and honest does NOT mean a woman is automatically protected from opportunists and predators.

For ex:My husband has this strange logic, that if he didn’t want the other woman, then having sex with her was not cheating and he wasn’t responsible b/c SHE came on to HIM. Women flirt and make it clear they are available for a man’s attentions and then cry foul when the man is a jerk and uses them.

Thus I draw a distinction b/t true fraud as happened with Donna, the LOVEFRAUD author, versus women who did not perform even the simplist DUE DILIGENCE to protect themselves. A little self responsibility reveals a lot of married men. Plus I think being able to show the steps you took to ensure honor and truthfulness would only support your court case where you can demonstate how he connived to hide and obscure the truth for his deceitful gain.

what’s the difference b/t “i know CPR, I can help!” and “i know GOD, I can help!”

They both disarm a person and set up trust that rescue is imminent in THREE WORDS.

I am a person of strong faith who has NO Trust in Any church. Seems when money, power, and no accountability are present, then abuse of trust predictably follows.

kitten:

Good post! So sorry though that despite doing all the right things (waiting to have sex after marriage) it still went awry. Teeny male member…haha! Sometimes I think these guys with little ones need to try to prove something…going from woman to woman…UGGHH.

Donna-my mom is a raging narcissist and also one of the most religious people you could ever know.

Liz and Donna,
my mom too. Prays the rosary every night on her knees and she’s a total spath. She feels nothing for anyone.

Kitten,
my spath had a tiny member too. Could this be a clue? It reminds me of a South Park episode I watched once.. LOL!

skylar:

I think it could be a clue!

I just went to a website that I thought was very interesting, written by a psychologist who “gets it” about psychopaths. Here is a bit of an article she wrote about “rape” by deception.

Our society has been conditioned to define rape narrowly, usually as a man forcing themselves upon a woman. But force is just one way of violating another human being, and both genders can be victims of rape. Fraud and coercion are two other major means of achieving power and control over another via sexual violation.

Unfortunately, defining rape as anything but an act of force is stereotyped as feminist or liberal thinking. Reality is that rape committed through fraud and coercion can cause most of the same traumatic effects as rape by force. We don’t need scientific proof of this; just ask someone who’s been through it. PTSD, for example, is alive and well in a wide range of rape victims.

Rape by fraud and coercion can carry an additional psychologically damaging element because victims may question how they could allow themselves to be duped and blame themselves for the violation. Victims can also suffer from lasting medical issues such as sexually transmitted diseases, some life-threatening, as a result. Pregnancies and financial difficulties can occur, and the victim’s ability to have or maintain future relationships can suffer horribly.

http://wildninja.wordpress.com/

HOSANNA – I have a question for you. You mention that the marriage was annulled due to fraud. Was the law involved or only your church? I can relate to SO MUCH of what you’ve shared of your situation. In my case, the sociopath is ALSO pretending to be a man of God, he also pretends to have had a transformation from a previously evil life to a life of purity in Christ, he is also involved in ministry although NOT as a minister — thank God…. however he preaches and is very pushy about being involved with as much church activity as they will allow him to. He has convinced the minister at his church that he is holy and I am a she-devil….. but our day in court is coming — Nov 14th – and by God’s power and justness I hope he will be shown to be the conman predator that he really is. He has defrauded me mercilessly from day 1. He was a lie from Hello to Good Bye. He is PURE EVIL — a pathological liar who has no remorse and only wanted my money. The sociopaths who masquerade as godly men are even more enticing to women — because it is easy to trust someone who is constantly invoking the name of God – it’s powerful to those who are really trying to do His will. You’re SO right when you said you were spiritually raped! My sociopath spiritually raped me by convincing me it was God’s will that I marry him. So I can add that to the list (emotionally, psychologically, financially and spiritually raped). Now on my way to healing and wholeness. Thank you all for your input. I find solace in this community of fellow sufferers. THANK YOU ALL!

As a survivor of both “normal” rape and rape by fraud, i must say that the normal rape had less effect on me because it happened ONCE. the other one though happened soooooo many times, and the effect was the same. i wish sometimes it was just a one night/day thing and not a constant rape for 2 years……..

one/joy_step_at_a_time

isurvived – when i ran into one of my x friends this spring (someone i had been close to and lost during the spath debacle), i told her that effect was like being raped, and that they (she and another friend) had just abandoned me. I was trying to find a context for my experience that i thought she would at least be able to relate to intellectually, that would help her to understand why expecting me to be all over it in 6 months was unrealistic. Glad I said it, but it didn’t make a wit of difference with her. It did with me, however. Every time i have seen her since i have walked in the other direction.

isurvived
maybe that’s my problem with defining it as rape. b/c like you, my “normal” rape was a onetime event that i could process. it was the carp done to me after that was traumatic (beaten so the blood ran through my shirt and stuck it to me and thrown out of the house for being a whore, never to have a family ever again.)
Like my rape, the events done to me by my husband were bad, but it’s the trauma stuff done after that totally mindfarked me. Like when he cheated, totally blew me away b/c I never thought he was that type. But all the people making fun of me b/c he wouldn’t have done it if I wasn’t so ugly, that he couldn’t stand to touch me, laughing and pointing at me, judged as less than, he was excused and defended for a variety of reasons, the woman coming to me and telling me and laughing at me for being too stupid to figure out she was the one, his uncle who we let live rent free in the house next to ours making threats to me as he felt protective of the other woman…why did the whole town have to know? The humiliation piled on of all the ways I was worth less…the threats to my life b/c I was worthless…the small physical assaults… RAPE was easy in comparison.

Katy,
I’m sorry that you experienced that.

It is sad when people need to diminish another in order to feel better about themselves. Sad for them. The extent to which your exspath and his minions went to, to accomplish this, demonstrates how pathetic their own internal lives are.

When my exspath asked me, “what have I done to you that is so bad?” he was hoping to wallow in the rehashing of how he humiliated and tortured me. Instead, I replied, “spath, you have not done ANYTHING to me compared to what you have done to yourself.” because the truth is, that when someone commits such vile acts, the destruction they cause to their souls is worse than what they do to us. They are metaphorical “suicide bombers” who have cut off their own noses to spite their faces.

Katy-I’m so sorry that all that happened to you-it makes what I went through so insignificant. I was a survivor of “normal rape” too and it does only happened once, but I buried it for so long. I don’t know if I really experienced rape by deception. It’s kinda like that I guess. I am really trying at this point not to analyze to much about that relationship anymore since it’s over.

Katy, when I was in gradeschool and someone said something nasty to me, the response was SUPPOSED TO BE “consider the source.” Well, I think we must really do that and CONSIDER THE SOURCE of who is saying these nasty things. We have to realize like Skylar said, these people are “metaphorical suicide bombers” and truly realize that NOTHING THEY SAY IS VALID. NOTHING!!!!! NOT ONE WORD!!!!

Remember the story of the UGLY DUCKLING?

http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2010/05/21/the-lovefraud-version-of-the-ugly-duckling/

Those “ducks” made fun of the baby swan because he was different. We cannot, MUST NOT, allow others to ASSIGN A VALUE (or lack of it) to ourselves! We must validate ourselves! ((hugs)))

You’all’s kindness and assurances are much appreciated. I have grown up since a lot of that was done to me. Very proud of the strides I have made. But it does strike me that the events in my life, (and maybe others see it this way too) weren’t as terrible as what came after, the invalidation, the blame, the humiliation, and our response to avoid others piling onto the abuse that was done to us.

Hans Christian Andersen was my favorite childhood author. I used to think we were linked b/c like me he was danish and we shared the same birthday. Ugly duckling was a place of hope for me, did not grow to be a swan but saw a blurb on tv that was so true… whoever (eventually) connects with me will not do it for what I look like on the outside but for the incredible person I am on the inside. I think that fits all us love fraud members so perfectly. I think we come off as extraordinary people and certainly that is why we got targeted by predators.

I think part of the reason this law wouldn’t do well in the States is because over the years, the “sanctity” of our “bodies and souls” has been corroded as a concept by pop culture. Most people don’t seem to think sex is intimate or that sharing our bodies with another person is a notable occasion in our lives. Sex is just a marketable commodity in the mainstream culture of America these days. Look at all these celebrities with their sex tapes and music videos about orgies! How could we ever get this kind of culture to then place a value on our bodies SO HIGH that even the government can and should have a right to intervene if our valuables are exploited….because first we’d have to convince people that these things are VALUABLE in the first place. We’ve got former Presidents getting extra-marital blow jobs in the White House, priests raping children, and Paris Hilton running around in miniskirts as an encore to her shameless sex tape scandal. In fact, the media seems to suggest that money and power should be flaunted to acquire the commodity of sex. Rappers are singing about how they make Benjamins and now they get a bunch of hoes.

Yeah, try to convince this group of people that intimacy has value…..

I don’t know what else to do when I am struck by grief. Today is my spath’s birthday. I understand he is a really bad, evil man. But I am still stuck with overwhelming, actually painful grief, that this is true.

I don’t know what else to do when it overwhelms me like this except to come here, to this safe place, and write about it.

I used to run to him, call him, go see him, to try to fix things and make them better. I recognize that strategy will never work.

But the pain is the same.

Dear Superkid,

You lost something when you lost him—you lost your FANTASY belief that he was something wonderful. It is like you found out that there IS NO SANTA CLAUS, and not only that, but that “Santa” is an EVIL ELF, not the kind, giving loving person he had been pictured as.

Grief over a LOSS, even the loss of something that was NOT REAL is still REAL. The Grief is REAL, the pain is real, but it WILL PASS….I promise you it WILL PASS. You will eventually reach that nirvana of INDIFFERENCE. I thought it would never subside when I “lost” my wonderful son, and my “loving” egg donor, or my truly loving husband, but the GRIEF does PASS. I can think about my P son and my egg donor and I do NOT feel the PAINFUL PART OF THE GRIEF, but the calm ACCEPTANCE of accepting what is REAL, that they were NOT real in the sense that “they loved me” and I CAN feel the acceptance of the reality of my husband’s love, but without the PAIN of that loss. I can now remember the good times we had with joy and peace.

So your GRIEF is REAL, but it is not all PAIN, SADNESS, etc. but can be eventually, in the case of the FANTASY relationships, the nirvana of indifference to them. In the case of those good relationships that we lost, they can be in joyful remembering.

I”m glad you came here. Time does heal wounds, and wounds heels. (((hugs)))

Oxy thank you. It’s taken me quite a long time to accept it intellectually. Now I’m working on it emotionally.

Superkid, I really understand where you’re coming from. I still have these moments that I call “logic” or “concept” relapse where I temporarily forget what he really is. Just today, I was missing my kitty so much, and even though I know he did something to take the cat away from me, for a split second I actually thought, “I should just call him and ask him to give me cat back.” Oh, come ON! Duh!

Like you said, intellectually it takes a long time to sink in…but emotionally it’s an actual WAR ZONE because it hurts to dang much.

When you get caught up in thinking these dramatic things about his birthday…ask yourself if you care that much about YOUR OWN birthday.

There is a lyric in a Jewel song where she says: Loving someone else is so much easier….

OXY: I am sooooo waiting with open arms for the nirvana of INDIFFERENCE. Patiently waiting, but oh so anticipating that beautiful moment when I just don’t freaking give a damn anymore. You are so right, though, that we do LOSE a person, even if that person was never there, because our REALITY had been that this person was in our lives all this time. I feel like I “lost” the “love of my life” and to add to it, now I’ve got to face that I was also brutally betrayed by the “love of my life” and there is just no way to even conceptualize this at first. It’s so completely overwhelming. It’s like attending the funeral of your loved one, standing there in the black dress, and knowing at the same time that the coffin is EMPTY! Talk about an emotional and mental head trip!

Oh, and then trying to explain this to other people.

Passerby/Friends/Family: “So, whose funeral is this?”

Us: “Well, nobody’s. I mean, someone I loved very deeply. Except they didn’t exist, so the coffin is empty.”

Passerby/Friends/Family: “You don’t make any sense. Are you on something?”

Us: “Yeah, I figured you’d say that…”

Katydid, I surely identify with you!!! I went through something similar and it was a huge, huge wounding. It hurt horribly. And, yes in deed, it was the ultimate head f***.
It still leaves my head spinning because I still don’t know what really happened…even 23 years later.
But, the good news is: we are survivors and we are good people! We aren’t cruel and hateful and ugly. We aren’t home-wreckers or decievers. We still have our spirits intact!! And, I do believe in karma, and that big ol’ wheel just keeps turnin”

Oxy- many thanks for sharing that blog as well as the information. It is very validating to hear a [well-informed] mental health professional’s take on the situation. He/she confirms what I have inwardly acknowledged all along.

(((((onestep))))))

panther wrote, Oh, and then trying to explain this to other people…

yep.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

dancingnancies – thank you so much, i so needed that hug.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

panther – WELL SAID!!! (btw when i came here someone asked my if i was on drugs.)

‘Oh, and then trying to explain this to other people.

Passerby/Friends/Family: “So, whose funeral is this?”

Us: “Well, nobody’s. I mean, someone I loved very deeply. Except they didn’t exist, so the coffin is empty.”

Passerby/Friends/Family: “You don’t make any sense. Are you on something?”’

This guy has GOT to be a sociopath!!! Or an N!!! He is NUTS!!!!

Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdmgDbswrI

I wish they were all THAT obvious from the first moment so we’d KNOW to run like hell. I mean, this guy doesn’t even have a saving grace. How does he even get women AT ALL? His personality is just…spathy!!!! Yuck!

One Joy, we know you’re not on drugs. Being under the influence of a spath looks like a heavy delusion from the outside. I understand this when other people are trying to understand me, so I don’t take it to heart when they think I am the crazy one. I know that what I am saying sounds impossible the moment the words leave my mouth…so much so that when I hear them again myself, I can hardly believe them either. I ask myself, “How in the HECK did that HAPPEN?” Hindsight is 20/20 they say.

Oh, now he’s making his own movie!!!

PSYCHO!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neW-_HJ4Vjc&feature=related

Haha, Dimitri is a very amusing chap! However, the important thing to remember is that they are ALL “Dimitris” underneath. The only difference is that some “Dimitris” have boobs, squeaky voices and big loving, phony smiles; while other “Dimitris” have hairy chests and a beguiling air of “lost dog alpha-male tenderness,” etc. But underneath, they are all still the same person!

The only thing even noteworthy about this guy, is that his mask is so crappy!

Of course, it is possible that Dimitri is actually a great guy, and he just has a very devious roommate who happened to find this woman’s number lying around somewhere!

No, Dimitri is Dimitri and he is making a movie now about how to pick up on women.

Agreed. The only difference with Dimitri is that he has NO mask. I don’t think he is even trying to have a mask. If you watch some of his “love advice” videos on youtube, this guy is not even TRYING to fake it. He might as well just come out and call himself a psychopath, because he’s not attempting to mask his true nature at all.

Constantine, I cannot even imagine this guy as a squeaky-voiced woman. What a nightmare!!!!

Yes, Panther, it’s true that in one moment of insanity, Dimitri was the love of my life! (“squeaky voice” and all!) And your life, and Sky’s life, and Hens’s life, and Louise’s, and Oxy’s, and One Joy’s, etc. etc. So perhaps we should be more modest when we cringe at this guy’s vile antics – because in a very real sense, we’ve all loved this identical person!

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