Last week Lovefraud posted an article that described one woman’s experience of romantic manipulation by a sociopath. Another reader responded with advice.
This woman had been married to a narcissist, which in many ways is similar to a sociopath. Once she divorced him and started dating again, she relied on a list of red flags. “If I saw even ONE flag, the guy was OUT of my life, period,” she says. Here is her list.
Red flags
1) Needing to be around you as much as possible and knowing where you are at all times.
2) Refusing to have any meaningful social life, even with his own family.
3) Telling you what to wear and advising what is “appropriate clothing” for you.
4) Requesting that you spend all your free time with him and NONE with friends. (In the beginning, you can see friends on a limited basis, but he has to be there.)
5) Absolutely NO male friends or hugging any male.
6) Dictating what you look like, i.e., you should wear glasses instead of contact lenses, less makeup, less jewelry, etc.
7) No more going to the gym, men might look at you there while exercising.
8 ) Outright anger when you join a church or any other “institution.” The REAL issue is…he is afraid a priest or other “authority” will tell you what to do and “control” you.
9) Encouraging you to engage in unhealthy habits like not losing weight. They use these “bad habits” later to criticize you.
10) You cannot be “too friendly.” People might get the “wrong idea,” especially MEN.
11) You have the feeling of walking on eggshells, waiting for a blow-up if you say the wrong thing or say the right thing in a way he does not like.
12) You know he thinks he is smarter and better than others by his almost constant criticism of others…words like “idiot” and “slow learner” are a common part of his everyday language as he discusses others.
13) He loves the thrill of a good “fight” with nearly anyone, but when he perceives himself as the loser, he is a very poor one and there are always rationalizations for WHY he lost and they have nothing to do with HIM, of course.
14) He acts like he cares what you think, gives lip service to being “liberal” and open minded but his actions are the opposite.
15) He thinks absolutely NOTHING of lying and will take advantage of anyone at anytime if it furthers his goals.
16) You have never met anyone like him”¦he does things that no one else does…his behavior is simply outrageous to others and they shake their heads and say what GALL!
17) The rules do NOT EVER apply to him…he is above them.
18) He resents, on many levels, having to care for his children unless a woman is around to take on most of the “burden.”
19) He often “forgets” what he is supposed to do for his children (especially when it involves anything to do with money).
20) He says things that simply make NO sense and you, as a rational, logical person, just cannot quite figure it out.
21) He shows up with no notice at your job or home (no common sense of courtesy).
22) When he thinks he is being rejected, he calls, emails, comes to your home or job obsessively and often actually stalks.
23) Early in the relationship you are his “whole world” and he does not want to spend any time with anyone but you.
24) He seldom thanks anyone for anything.
25) These men are VERY adept at fooling others”¦everyone thinks they are just great and love you so much”¦BEWARE!
By the way, the woman who compiled—and applied—this list of red flags has healed and met a wonderful man who is now her fiancé.
Seems there is no age limit or man /woman … dosent matter…. I asked my ex S/P/N…. who he had on the back burner… he said mmmmm maybe I will try the “19 year old LOL … good luck to her and anyone else he is taking advantage of now better someone else than ME….. FREEDOM NEW YEAR!!!!! new fresh un toxic start!!!! So toxic … that sick to my stomach feeling is gone…… why doesnt Karma ever catch up to this spaths…..? or does it and then they get bailed out… not by me any longer… will I rescue someone that dosent deserve my help… kindness, love , respect…
Robsykobabe said, “If I was to even MENTION another guy I had been ’disrespectful, rude, inconsiderate of his feelings—not to mention if I told him about past relatinships”
And I wonder, why didn’t he EVER divulge any iformation about his past relationships?”
I can second that!!!
Hed get in a real huff, if I mentioned an ex. To me having the abilty to talk about an ex was proof that there was no threat.
I only JUST realized how even though he’d tell me how all his past relationships went south (always said it was they that cheated. Now I know the truth.) but he never talked about them or their personalities.
He’d sometimes tell me the last one whom his pet name for was “psycho jen” was OCD, but he loved her, it was her that wanted him gone. Said she dumped him several times and that contributed to her psycho nature.
He told me how cruel she was to close his dog’s tail in the door (which I almost did, as he is a big dog) and how she laughed. Also about the time she walked him and he took off after a squirrel and dragged her full speed for several yards.
I think wow….how could put up with somone who could laugh at someone whom he said he cared for as they got dragged through the bruch of the woods.
I caught up with “psycho jen” and he had slept with her up to just months before our wedding. Turns out she was done with him once she found she was pregnant with his baby!!!
She also told me how he said we were going to church and she saw his nature change (he’s used the church excuse to the new OW too).
He explained that he wanted to sleep with her as I had expressed wanting to wait until we were married!!!!!!!!
He also in his sociopathic nature told her he only married me to get over her! ????
She said she new it sounded wrong, but she also said she hoped he’ get caught.
I think the loss of the child and his finally learning that he could indeed have kids made him want us to get pregnant far sooner than I was preparred to.
Oh. It’s all such a mess. But I am past it now. Thank God.
I want to give you a scenario…..
Cluster B MAN: Nothing in his name, bad credit, judgements, warrants etc, has baby with CBW, recently married.
Cluster B woman/ wife. Foreigner, here on a visa, has credit in her name, has baby with CBM above and recently married him.
CBman puts all accounts in wifes name to avoid attachments.
Wife puts rental car in her name…..and husband drives car.
THEY NEVER RETURN THE RENTAL CAR.
Game is…..rent car for 1-2 days and leave town with car….
Drive slow and cautious and chances are ….you’ll never be caught, when done with it…..do it all over again with another car rental agency in another state!
Property rental game: Wait for eviction notices…..and court date and split to another rental at the last minute…..There will always be another landlord to ‘feel sorry’ for you and take you in.
Yeah sure, you have to keep moving….but if your used to it and have no posessions….whats the bother….a new ‘environment’ every two to three plus months…..not a bad gig for a con!
So….wife gets pulled over in stolen car, due to an astute cop. Cover blown and arrest made….bail posted…..and on the run again.
Heres where it gets intersting…..and the WHOLE REASON WE MUST THINK FOR OURSELVES and pay attention to those we choose to be with/marry etc…lifestyle and behaviors and RED FLAGS!
She’s screwed!
He told her some cockamamie story about the car being paid for…..he has HER drive…..car was rented in HER name, and SHE get’s arrested…..SHE was his front…..
She provided sex, cooking, cleaning and companionship, finances, credit cards and other credit and a good front for her ‘man’.
He used her credit, (possible honor???), name and since they have a baby together that was born in the US……
SHe can’t leave to go back to her homeland to recoup her life in Europe with the baby.
IF she see’s his cons……and wants to leave…..there will be NO WAY she can get full custody of child…..she’s the one with the felony car theft record……she’s the one with the bad check writing fraudulent records, she’s the one with the judgements against her…NOT HIM!
He comes out squeeky clean…..as she looks like shit all for a cover for her ‘man’.
He can file for an annulment and custody orders and what do you think the chances are that he will be denied custody…..????
ZERO!
He won’t back her for her VISA application, withdraw the citizenship application sponsorship….saying she was only with him to get a green card……portraying her as a con (and I’m not so sure she’s not!)
And who looks bad here?
HER!
So…..let this be ANOTHER lesson to us all…….we really…..from this point forward…..need to pay attention to the persons we CHOOSE to partner with……spend time with…..or give our lives to.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF US!!!!!
My ex met his friend who is a gay man back in 2001/2002, so he asks me to move down here like an idiot I do, uproot my life ….. when I get here…. he wants me to marry this guy for money so he can get a green card…. hindsight my ex may be (IS) bisexual…. I did not marry for money…not my style…but they are still friends … he tells this guy I am the “crazy” one well sure if you found out all this CRAP you would be confused and raging and crazy once you put the pieces of all the Bullshit scam…. oh and on the drive down when we met up in Virgina or somewhere on the road he met a woman who paid for a hotel room who knows what they were doing….
Then we get here and we are living together he is accross the street getting drunk with a girl he just met? all while still being married to his bisexual , bikini model silicone trophy?????
UGGGHHHHHHH all the signs that Are red flags? and he sees nothing wrong at all why bring up the past ? why to get to the truth ? I seek the truth? now its still a confusing puzzle but … I can put the peices together….
Spirit40 — When my ex kept trying to get me to reconcile right after the final break-up at 1.5 yrs., I said I would need him to explain all the stuff that happened (negativity, hurtful things said out of the blue, silent treatment here and there, short temper) and clear up things I had been confused by.
My response was I could only reconsider if I knew the truth about everything, what was going on with him that he behaved that way, to be able to make an informed decision.
I knew he couldn’t “process” this because he was oblivious and minimized the impact of things he did.
It let me off the hook to put the burden back on him. He barely remembered a lot of things he did or the context of stupid things said, but felt I should be able to let go of the past and forgive all his “mistakes” because he’s human too.
Whenever he noticed me standing my ground, he’d throw in an off-hand comment like, “You don’t know everything…” about what he was up to, thinking it would hook me into “interviewing” him for details, to pull information out of him. He liked the attention of having me probe for information.
By this time, I simply didn’t care — because I learned he could make up shit about past and present quite well, and change facts and feelings he previously had about situations I could clearly recall, leaving me uncertain of what was real. I got the impression he wanted me to think of him as so important, to make himself seem more intriguing.
This approach had worked for months until I caught on. I told him he was tiring — it was too much work, and since he didn’t have to probe to get info from me about my feelings and views, I was giving up the role unless he planned to pay me for my time.
During this time, what I knew first-hand was that he hung around me a lot (coming to my home office to assist with my errands, business tasks and use a computer) or took care of his dad much of the time at their home as primary family caregiver, having to work only part-time.
He was usually accessible when I called, so a lot of his insinuations were for fun and attention — to give me the impression that he was mysterious. It was all so gamey — to “increase his stock” value (yes, his exact words).
If he had time for another relationship or just a fling, the other person wasn’t getting a lot of time since there’s only 24 hours in a day, and we often spent nights together at his house or mine during long stretches of time.
My final reply when he could not respond to my request was, “You’re right, I don’t know everything, but I know enough, what I need to know. I know you are a narcissist or sociopath, and I know this relationship is not working and I am comfortable with my decision.”
After that, whenever he tried to bring up reconciling, I would remind him I couldn’t have a legitimate relationship with a N or S.
He finally told me that I “get” him, and that he wanted to change and needed my help. I said I had already provided the support he needed by bringing up issues for discussion and being open to him, but he took too much for granted.
I put the burden back on him at that point, and simply said I couldn’t take on that kind of challenge again unless he paid me for my time.
And we know the ending for this episode, based on how the N/S feel about spending their own money…
Far out they suck! Grrrr! I saw the Pex today at a cafe in town trying to look cool with his sunnies on … he was with a really ugly fat chick (no offence to anyone on the curvy side … I am one myself!) bUt this woman was enormous! And had a face like a twisted sandshoe. I have no idea of her age but it looked like a date set up to me. It shocked me a bit but I am gratified he’s going downhill after me. I don’t consider myself particularly hot but quite a few men do.. Last night I had complete strangers coming up to me to tell me I was beautiful etc – nice ego boost for the new year!
It was weird to see him with someone else. We’re not even divorced yet and he never cheated on me so I’m not used to it. He looked as miserable as ever and it looked like she was doing all the conversing. I have been reminding myself all day “Poor bitch – she doesn’t know what she’s getting into. Once a psycho always a psycho.” Maybe he’ll be more flexi with the divorce if he’s moving onto someone else.
On the upside … I had a great New Year with some wonderful friends and family and some heartwarming moments (although not a single new year kiss :()
Erin – great news to hear about your dog – my mum used to have GS and although her’s were always lovely natured, I didn’t like to get up for the toilet in the middle of the night when they were on patrol in the hallway lol. Females are more savage and actually labs are highly rated in attack cases surprisingly. So it’s a great combination of breeds there. And definitely giving a misleading name is a fab idea.
I liked a sign I saw a while ago
“Forget the dog … beware of the owner”
lol
Banana … so sorry to hear of this news for you. That must be such a shock at this time of the year especially.
Roxy … if you have some suspicions – get tested – especially for chlamydia = there are no symptoms usually and it can completely destroy your fertility.
Recovering … I also called out my Pex and he left shortly afterwards. I said for several weeks that he had abused me throughout the relationship and he raised his eyes to the ceiling each time – one day he said ‘Are you telling other people about this ‘abuse’ you insinuate?’ and I replied ‘Yes I am. I am not lying for you anymore.’ I also screamed at him the day before he left “Get out – I know what you are now – you’re a psychopath!” “What makes you think that?” he said. “Nineteen out of twenty one symptoms – that’s what – you’re textbook.” I replied.
Now any kind of normal person would take that allegation quite seriously and would examine their own behaviour to see why someone perceived them in this way – not him. He tried to shame me for saying such things, which in his world have no foundation at all because he is perfect and I am the bitch with mental problems who was abusing him! It’s crazy!
So he started really distancing from me when I started naming what he had done and what he was – almost as if I was calling out a false rape allegation – I can’t really explain it – maybe someone else can, but his response was to make me doubt my own perceptions and think ‘Well maybe I am being overly sensitive about all this – he was nice sometimes so how can he be an abuser?’ I didn’t question myself though and to this day maintain he psychologically, financially, sexually and emotionally abused me over a decade and he is a raging psychopath. I am recovering so much faster now he is gone. It’s a hard path to walk though. I just wish everything was done with and finished.
pollyannanomore:
You’re right that a concerned person close to you would have at least wanted to know why you were upset or reasons you perceived him as abusive.
Ultimately, the label of N/S/P may not matter — the reality is that anyone who refuses to see or hear us is toxic to us, because the foundation of any good relationship has to be mutual regard and a basic concern for the well-being of each other.
As you say, they’re good at calling people bitches with mental problems when you confront their behavior, and then trying to turn it around to make you seem like the one who was abusing him.
Yes, it’s crazy, and you know it. But having the clarity we need sure beats being confused. You know your truth and what you experienced.
Happy New Year.
Banana, I’m so sorry about the little “Xmas present” your ex gave you, the ever present reminder of him. I know there are some cutting edge treatments for this condition, and it needn’t be a huge burden to you in your life. I know a few people who have it, and it has not been debilating for them, though I’m sure that’s little consolation.
I hope 2010 will be a good/better year for all of us. I have had a cold–third one of the season–which is unusual for me. It’s partly due to lack of sleep because I’ve been engrossed in a book I couldn’t put down. Someone recommended I read VC Andrews “Flowers in the Attic”. I recently read it and the sequel “Petals on the Wind”. That is the one I couldn’t put down. It is a very sad story of children who were locked in an attic for 3-1/2 years, then abandoned, due to their mother’s greed. It’s kind of like Stephen King meets Jane Eyre.
I’m hoping to get out and have lunch with a friend today in spite of the fact that I just need rest. Will spend the weekend resting, cuddling cats and snakes, and having little else to do.
My warmest regards to everyone,
Star
yeah…my ex ..would say i was being inappropriate and unhealthy if an old guy friend even just text hello randomly…
inappropriate and your out asking another girl tomove in with her oh yeah and as you are getting on the plane to go to her you have the NERVE to ask ME FOR MONEY …just a few thousand dollars…im going to canada to cast a film…my gf and i busted him on the phone the very next morning and youd have thought it was me out cheating…he told me i was crazy leave him alone and he loves her…ok…but im gonna tell her too..and i did and im glad …now he is left as far as i know with no money and no new chick..but im sure there is someone else for every lie you uncover there is another twenty or so …he actually said that to me all the time!!! loser!!!
i had family over and they left and i just want to stay strong and not feel the urge to vent to him nor call …so far just coming here is helping!!!
fahrahri:
I feel your pain today concerning wanting to call him. It seems as though today I did well up until about 6pm. Suddenly, it hit me that it was a new year, and I had no one to share it with (well, no significiant other at least). My mind began racing with all the possibilities of New Years Eve parties he had to go to. My mind began racing about his plans for this weekend he may have.
It’s so strange. I think I know he has NO friends, although as my mom said it, “he may have more friends than you even think”. Its like Im trying to anticipate what he has going this weekend and Im using alot of energy on him still rather than myself.
Why do I feel sick to my stomache when I think about his NYE plans he may have had, knowing though that he really only has 1 or possibly 2 ‘friends’ (more like aquaintances) he could have been with. Not to mention no license or car. Its so irrational…and why does it bother me that there is a possibility of him getting picked up to go somewhere? Maybe because it was ME who used to do it? I dont want that anymore…but I dont want him to be able to have it with anyone else…it sounds so selfish.