Last week Lovefraud posted an article that described one woman’s experience of romantic manipulation by a sociopath. Another reader responded with advice.
This woman had been married to a narcissist, which in many ways is similar to a sociopath. Once she divorced him and started dating again, she relied on a list of red flags. “If I saw even ONE flag, the guy was OUT of my life, period,” she says. Here is her list.
Red flags
1) Needing to be around you as much as possible and knowing where you are at all times.
2) Refusing to have any meaningful social life, even with his own family.
3) Telling you what to wear and advising what is “appropriate clothing” for you.
4) Requesting that you spend all your free time with him and NONE with friends. (In the beginning, you can see friends on a limited basis, but he has to be there.)
5) Absolutely NO male friends or hugging any male.
6) Dictating what you look like, i.e., you should wear glasses instead of contact lenses, less makeup, less jewelry, etc.
7) No more going to the gym, men might look at you there while exercising.
8 ) Outright anger when you join a church or any other “institution.” The REAL issue is…he is afraid a priest or other “authority” will tell you what to do and “control” you.
9) Encouraging you to engage in unhealthy habits like not losing weight. They use these “bad habits” later to criticize you.
10) You cannot be “too friendly.” People might get the “wrong idea,” especially MEN.
11) You have the feeling of walking on eggshells, waiting for a blow-up if you say the wrong thing or say the right thing in a way he does not like.
12) You know he thinks he is smarter and better than others by his almost constant criticism of others…words like “idiot” and “slow learner” are a common part of his everyday language as he discusses others.
13) He loves the thrill of a good “fight” with nearly anyone, but when he perceives himself as the loser, he is a very poor one and there are always rationalizations for WHY he lost and they have nothing to do with HIM, of course.
14) He acts like he cares what you think, gives lip service to being “liberal” and open minded but his actions are the opposite.
15) He thinks absolutely NOTHING of lying and will take advantage of anyone at anytime if it furthers his goals.
16) You have never met anyone like him”¦he does things that no one else does…his behavior is simply outrageous to others and they shake their heads and say what GALL!
17) The rules do NOT EVER apply to him…he is above them.
18) He resents, on many levels, having to care for his children unless a woman is around to take on most of the “burden.”
19) He often “forgets” what he is supposed to do for his children (especially when it involves anything to do with money).
20) He says things that simply make NO sense and you, as a rational, logical person, just cannot quite figure it out.
21) He shows up with no notice at your job or home (no common sense of courtesy).
22) When he thinks he is being rejected, he calls, emails, comes to your home or job obsessively and often actually stalks.
23) Early in the relationship you are his “whole world” and he does not want to spend any time with anyone but you.
24) He seldom thanks anyone for anything.
25) These men are VERY adept at fooling others”¦everyone thinks they are just great and love you so much”¦BEWARE!
By the way, the woman who compiled—and applied—this list of red flags has healed and met a wonderful man who is now her fiancé.
icanseeclearlynow – I gotta get on a bus – but i will come back to this later tonight. spath was a woman pretending to be a man …
Henry you may be right about the cheating … I guess I will never know the truth though. So as far as I know he didn;t. He took great pains with his hair and his clothes for going out – wore a suit to work when he had a menial job and several people ribbed him about being gay – my mother quietly whispered it to me on several occasions. I wouldn;t put anything past him now.
EB – the frown YES!!!! YES YES YES!! Always frowning – in fact so much he had created deep creases in his forehead from it. He claimed it was a family trait but in the pictures I saw nobody had it. Always was scowling and I was always asking ‘What’s wrong?’ the answer was always the same ‘Nothing’. I actually brought home an article that outlined Botox could improve people’s lives by making their faces seem less grumpy and making them more approachable. He dismissed it as so many other things. Would always say ‘I am just thinking’ or ‘I am just listening’. No positive emotions – no excitement ever. My mother, myself and others found this incredibly weird. He could have just won the lottery and would wear the same depressive looking expression. I think it was just another manipulation ploy looking back – I should have given him something to look grumpy about like a good slap upside the head lol (wow harking back to childhood here with the phrase from Mama “if you don’t stop crying I will give you something to cry about” lol)
I can see clearly now – yes on the names. The idiot chatter overseas was called Sexycool – should have been an alarm and it never sat well with me.
one_step: What a manipulation!!! take care (((hugs)))
Pollyannanomore: “idiot chatter” <– Oh yeah. If I never have to hear THAT again in my life it will be TOO SOON.
About the mouth thing. I wonder if there is a difference between Psychopaths and Cluster B's, Narcissists and Sociopaths with this feature.
The ex rabid dog had a mouth that looked like Klaus Kinski and Tim Curry's. If you do a Google Image Search on those two and look at their mouths that's what his looked like, Tim Curry's mouth especially is almost identical to his.
This page here, has an article with photos of both:
http://coilhouse.net/2007/12/top-10-most-preternaturally-beautiful-men/
Regarding the sexuality of Sociopaths and gender identification, there is something very valid to this. The ex sociopath I lived with was very much over-sexualized and would probably 'do' anything on legs. Something else very unique about him is that for a man that was extremely masculine and high in testosterone, he was ALSO not like ANY other straight man I've known sexually. He was attracted to gay male sexual behaviour, but also at the same time MALIGNED gays constantly. He also played coy a lot like a woman would.
Polly – Thats the problem, after three zillion lie’s you can’t believe anything that comes out of their mouths. Reading your post my gaydar goes off big time with your X. Please get checked for hiv. The number of married men in gay websites is staggering.
Eileen – When he left I never could find one of the memory sticks to my digital camera. Nothing I would be ashamed of but it erks me he would use pictures I took of him to post on a profile. And about that scowling angry look on they faces. It’s like they are just waiting for someone to attack them. My s-ex had a darkness that followed him around. I dont walk around with a big smile on my face all the time, but I have light in my eyes and an eagerness to laugh and approach everyone with kindness.
icanseeclearlynow
I just spent the last half hour responding and the server had a stroke and I lost the post!
I swear, the spaths of our acquaintance are SOUL MATES.
Spath is female. Pretending to be 3 males: one kinky sweet guilless bi boy, one conservative gay man, one histrionic gay street rat; and three females ”“ one pious sister, one incestuous sister, and one ’spunky’ friend. All living on two different continents.
I spoke to two on phone ”“ one boy one girl. Spath is mucho talented.
VAGUENES and INUENNDO ”“ filling in the blanks was my job. I volunteered; not being facetious, it is what I do*. Interpreter and decoder. (It makes me really affective with adults with intellectual disabilities and ESL students)
He was a sweet, guileless, abused, confused, grieving dying, split boy who needed a deeply empathic, gentle, intuitive, non judgemental, protective love in his life. I signed up.
*and something I need to stop doing.
I have been concerned, horrified and shocked at the things the people here have endured, but never have I felt angry. Reading your ’creep’ post I feel ANGRY. Maybe, in part due to identification ”“ and this is no problem, but I would hit CREEP hard if I were in his presence. I fantasize about having legions of US going around and fucking with the fuckers online. It could be a lifes work.
’beautiuful souls’ noooo; their souls are actually rather roomy.
Eeek Henry! ok I will do the brave thing and get checked out. What was it specifically that set you off? The avoidance of fatherhood, the grooming or something else? Oh my goodness I suddenly feel quite freaked out about it all … I have never suspected him of cheating, but I guess all things are possible with the amount he lied – if his lips were moving he was lying.
Yes he has a huge mouth – teeth like a graveyard all crossed over at the bottom but the lips are big. There is an Indian science of face reading and large lips represent sensuality …
Oh the talent for morphing into different characters is astounding. You know, when you tell about the exspath in your life, it brings up a memory of a story the ex creep told me about a former gf/roommate/friend (and I use that term loosely with him because he has no friends only supply). He told me that SHE had all these different personalities and that’s why he couldn’t be with her although he loved her. Yeah right. Like all the other ex lovers he used and tossed out in his life.
There was another story he told me about another ex rommate (one of many in his life) that he was said was schizophrenic and when not on his meds he took all the knives in the house and stashed them in his room. He said that everyone in the house was scared and freaked out by this guy, except him (the ex spath) and he talked to him calmly and joked about it. He told me this story laughing about it.
Months later when things got really bad with the abuse and the crazy-making and gaslighting were amped up to outrageous levels, I was in the bedroom and looked down by the night table and a butcher knife from the kitchen was lying there. I stared at it like “How the HELL did that get there?” He looked at me and said CALMLY watching me, “How did that get there?” Then pursued a conversation where I was like “I have no idea. Did you use the knife?” and asking me if I did and starting with his projecting behaviour and MIS-ANALYZING EVERY MOVE and FACIAL EXPRESSION I made. He started to try to convince me that I had put it there and forgotten about it.
Now, think about this. I was already behaving forgetfully because of the sleep deprivation and verbal abuse for hours. I was DEPLETED totally – physically, mentally and spiritually..so yes I was forgetful. I would put my keys or glasses down and forget minutes later where I put them.
BUT, but, but, BUT. A KNIFE!!! I keep all my knives in a kitchen drawer. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I would have forgotten that I took a knife out. And WHY would it randomly be on a table in the BEDROOM?????
I put the knife back into the drawer.
Sooo…a bit later in the night I go to the kitchen to get a drink or snack (I can’t remember and it’s not important). I walk into the kitchen and….THERE IS THE BUTCHER KNIFE lying on the floor pointing toward me (toward the entrance to the kitchen)!!!!!
I freaked. I yelled for him to come. He CALMLY walks to the kitchen and I’m standing there and pointing at the knife and I can’t remember exactly my words but I was beside myself saying this was nuts and how the hell the knife was there now.
Now, GET THIS. The guy freaks out about the most stupid, mundane, petty things and rages, often illogically but when something seriously f**ked up is going on he stands there as calm as can be (and he’s RARELY if EVER calm..he can’t sit still) and looks at me accusingly and says I must be losing it and starts accusing me of leaving the knife around!!!! Like WTF!????
I was having none of that. So, he just walks away and he actually seemed AMUSED.
I couldn’t let it go. It was setting off alarm bells and disturbing me. So, a bit later I said to him, “You know, it makes me think that maybe that story you told me about your ex rommate wasn’t really about him. Maybe that was you.”
Now, what would be a NORMAL person’s reaction to that?
I think a normal person would get ANGRY and INDIGNANT and DEFEND themselves about something like that. Since, really that’s quite an accusation. HIS reaction??? NO perceptable disturbance WHATSOEVER. He CALMLY looks at me and says, “That’s really a mean thing to say.” and that’s it. Period. Nothing.
Also, talk about many personalities. I found a youtube video of him after I left him. It’s been up there for over a year. Why I never thought to check for youtube accounts of his when I was with him, I don’t know. But, in this 8 or so minute video he is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT person. Different voice COMPLETELY. Different tone and quality to his voice. Different speech pattern DIFFERENT PERSON, only it’s him. Him talking to another one of his dupes (who he was stringing along at the SAME time as me) and showing off his new place to live with her…or was that me? How do they keep it all up?
Oh yeah. NO SOUL.
CREEP
Thanks for your words of support one_step. I told a good friend afterwards about what happened and he also said he wished he lived closer. He would give him a beating as well. As much as it feels satisfying to fantasize about them getting a taste of the pain they inflict, I really believe it wouldn’t do an ounce of good.
He’s the kind of bastard that if someone put a finger on him he would immediately take advantage of the full weight of the law. This from someone who when I tried to phone for help he smashed my wrist and broke the phone.
icanseeclearlynow –
ah, girl you have a firm grip on reality: ‘ As much as it feels satisfying to fantasize about them getting a taste of the pain they inflict, I really believe it wouldn’t do an ounce of good.’
did you read my pyscopath quotes that i put here somehwere earlier. you’ll see that freakish calmness, spathines AND physical sadism. f*ker.
CREEP CREEP CREEP CREEP. Wish i could do a bigger font.
I will read through more of the thread. In long threads I have to go through them in chunks of time. My attention span and amount of info I can process is limited right now. I do definitely want to read your list 🙂
I want to add a note about something you wrote. This:
“He was a sweet, guileless, abused, confused, grieving dying, split boy who needed a deeply empathic, gentle, intuitive, non judgmental, protective love in his life. I signed up.
*and something I need to stop doing.”
That could well have been written by me (with the the exception of the grieving and dying, but you could put “tormented, guilty, torn, lonely and a bunch of other pity inducing FAKE affects) it so strikes a chord of recognition for me.
I would like to say about your asterisked line though. For me, all of those great positive that we have to contribute are STILL awesome, GOOD qualities. What I believe we need to learn to do is to not give them out indescriminately.
NO MORE PEARLS TO THE SWINES.
🙂
p.s. LOL about the bigger font. BOLD would be good too.
“To Mariposa: really good list, but I have a feeling that some sociopaths know that we know about some of those”For example, mine introduced me to people around him really fast ”“ as it turned out, those (2) people were his accomplices/enablers. Also he didn’t put pressure on me to have sex the first time. Must have got his hands on a manual about how to behave like a gentleman””
Eileen- I have to disagree about a sociopath counting on their victim to know some of their sociopathic traits from the get go. If we could pick out the traits from the very beginning and distinguish them as sociopathic traits then a majority of us would not have become victims.
My list came from my own personal experience and a lot of the things he did I found were not normal by my standards. It wasn’t until other people started pointing out his abnormal traits did I start to realize that there was something truly wrong with him and I wasn’t crazy for thinking all those things about him.
The most common themes with sociopaths are lying, manipulation, and having no remorse/guilt for their actions. So these themes are normally exhibited through many of the traits that I and others have listed here as red flags. I don’t expect someone to read my list and check off every single red flag, but I hope that one of the red flags sets off a trigger for someone and that they start looking more in depth into the person they are dating or married to.