Last week Lovefraud posted an article that described one woman’s experience of romantic manipulation by a sociopath. Another reader responded with advice.
This woman had been married to a narcissist, which in many ways is similar to a sociopath. Once she divorced him and started dating again, she relied on a list of red flags. “If I saw even ONE flag, the guy was OUT of my life, period,” she says. Here is her list.
Red flags
1) Needing to be around you as much as possible and knowing where you are at all times.
2) Refusing to have any meaningful social life, even with his own family.
3) Telling you what to wear and advising what is “appropriate clothing” for you.
4) Requesting that you spend all your free time with him and NONE with friends. (In the beginning, you can see friends on a limited basis, but he has to be there.)
5) Absolutely NO male friends or hugging any male.
6) Dictating what you look like, i.e., you should wear glasses instead of contact lenses, less makeup, less jewelry, etc.
7) No more going to the gym, men might look at you there while exercising.
8 ) Outright anger when you join a church or any other “institution.” The REAL issue is…he is afraid a priest or other “authority” will tell you what to do and “control” you.
9) Encouraging you to engage in unhealthy habits like not losing weight. They use these “bad habits” later to criticize you.
10) You cannot be “too friendly.” People might get the “wrong idea,” especially MEN.
11) You have the feeling of walking on eggshells, waiting for a blow-up if you say the wrong thing or say the right thing in a way he does not like.
12) You know he thinks he is smarter and better than others by his almost constant criticism of others…words like “idiot” and “slow learner” are a common part of his everyday language as he discusses others.
13) He loves the thrill of a good “fight” with nearly anyone, but when he perceives himself as the loser, he is a very poor one and there are always rationalizations for WHY he lost and they have nothing to do with HIM, of course.
14) He acts like he cares what you think, gives lip service to being “liberal” and open minded but his actions are the opposite.
15) He thinks absolutely NOTHING of lying and will take advantage of anyone at anytime if it furthers his goals.
16) You have never met anyone like him”¦he does things that no one else does…his behavior is simply outrageous to others and they shake their heads and say what GALL!
17) The rules do NOT EVER apply to him…he is above them.
18) He resents, on many levels, having to care for his children unless a woman is around to take on most of the “burden.”
19) He often “forgets” what he is supposed to do for his children (especially when it involves anything to do with money).
20) He says things that simply make NO sense and you, as a rational, logical person, just cannot quite figure it out.
21) He shows up with no notice at your job or home (no common sense of courtesy).
22) When he thinks he is being rejected, he calls, emails, comes to your home or job obsessively and often actually stalks.
23) Early in the relationship you are his “whole world” and he does not want to spend any time with anyone but you.
24) He seldom thanks anyone for anything.
25) These men are VERY adept at fooling others”¦everyone thinks they are just great and love you so much”¦BEWARE!
By the way, the woman who compiled—and applied—this list of red flags has healed and met a wonderful man who is now her fiancé.
banana:
Who is pushing the issue of additional visitation? If it is the S, the judge will probably side with him in the interest of furthering the parental bond (or some such hogwash). The point is, without a really compelling reason to short circuit this, I don’t think you have a lot of ammo to shoot this one down.
There is a way for you to exert some control over the situation, however. You are within your rights to ask the judge to impose conditions on any visitation. You are within your rights, as custodial parent to raise the issue of his “sexploits”. The question that a judge should ask (and perhaps may need a bit of prompting from you and your attorney) is whether S has these sex partners in the house at the same time your son is with him.
If the answer is yes, then you are within your rights to ask the court to impose the condition on him that he is not to have any sexual partners around when he has visitation with your son. This is an issue a court would side with you on, especially when you frame it in the context of: (1) safety and soundness (it is not safe for your son to be exposed to people with whom his father knows practically nothing) and (2) creating an emotionally stable environment for your child — (he should not be expected to emotionally bond with all these assorted “aunts”).
If the answer is no, well, now you’ve got ammo to go after S in the future. Being realistic, you know as well as I do that S will swear up and down that none of his sex partners are ever in the same house as your son. The fact of the matter is that even if he promises they never will be, he will in fact ultimately violate the court’s orders. They always do. And then you’ve got leverage over S.
At least that is how I see things based on the info you posted.
The sex abuse issue I have always wondered about…….were they abused?
After meeting his parents ….very elderly and have always let him push him around. He was adopted at 2 weeks of age and I think the had their hands full from the get go. His mother was/is the tough on and dad is a pushover but mom also gives in eventually.
He is very strong, big and always has intimidated everyone around him starting at about the age of 12.
So, who could have abused him????
Well…when I met his older brother (12 years older) I was very creeped out. The kind of guy you might see on that “To Catch a Predator ” show. He even tried to rub aginst me with my back turned and when I jumped away he acted like it was a pure accident and he almost did it subconciously.
He is very into anal sex
When we first met I sometimes wondered if he was abusing his young son -12 especially when abusing drugs/alcohol…not sure why but when we became closer friends I never saw any signs of that.
His oldest son -22 will have NOTHING to do with him for YEARS now. Makes me wonder what he did
Any insight
Numb (not so much Hamburger at the moment)
Dear Iwonder,
Glad lto see you back.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that your X is at the VERY LEAST “high in psychopathic traits.” AND I think his story of “livingwith his parents” is a total LIE–the reason he did not introduce you to ANY friends or family is because he was a MARRIED MAN.
You might EASILY prove this by googling his name and address or look in the county where he lived for the deed to that address These are all public records and only a little bit of snooping will get you the answers you want to PROVE what he is one way or the other.
If the house is a rental unit you can jget the name and address of the land lord and contact them and find out, again, with a bit of a white lie or two just who the place is rented to.
You also might be able to find out who his car is registered to.
Worst case, hire a private eye for a background check (usually only a couple of hundred bucks for a quick search that they get information from computer ionformation you are not able to access. BTW those online searches aren’t worth it, get it done by a PRO.
That way you don’t have to keep on wondering. Good luck. (((hugs))))
Numb,
I have been reading many of your posts. Welcome to LF…I am always happy to see people who have found their way to this informative and supportive online community.
What I am noticing, and other’s here have commented on, is that you are completely focused on your abuser. Asking lots of questions about his behavior, his history, wondering why he is the way he is. We have all been in that place. The answer for that is to read all the archived material on this site. This is the way to inform yourself, and not spend too much time spinning around in his story.
And, Numb, not to make you feel crummy, that is not my intention….but it simply does not matter what ‘specifically’ he is doing, or what the details of his upbringing are, or even what the particular set of circumstances you find yourself in right now. Unless you use this information, decisively, to KNOW WHAT HE IS, and GET AWAY. Unless you USE this knowledge for your own good.
Here’s the deal: the only thing you can do, right now, despite the situation with him, with your ex-husband, with your son, is to protect yourself from any further abuse and predation.
There is no way around this. You are either ‘in’ or you are ‘out’. And you have absolutely no reason to stay in. You do not have children together. So, you are FREE to choose to GET OUT.
But all this dancing around the subject, and asking earnest clarifying questions, etc…all this is you destracting yourself from focusing on changing your phone #, your email address, and whatever else you need to change to cut contact.
Stop yourself. Make lists of WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, now, to stop this mad chaos that your life has become. Do it for you, for your son, for everyone. Everyone will benefit if you choose the path of self-love and healing. No one will benefit from your taking another moment of abuse. No one.
Please choose to love yourself…..Slim
Numb:
slimone makes excellent points. We have all been stuck in the rumination phase. Lord knows, I twisted myself into a pretzel wondering if what his father did made him the way he was; if his mother being brain dead from a stroke made him the way he was; if being left behind when his parents came to the US made him the way he was.
End of the day — NONE OF IT MATTERS. I was trying to make conclusions based on what he told me — and obviously it was all lies.
The only — and I mean this emphatically — the only question you need to ask yourself is this: HOW DOES WHAT HE DOES MAKE YOU FEEL?
That’s it. Plain and simple. How do his actions make you feel? Obviously, pretty badly or you wouldn’t be here. That question puts the focus solely back on you. Also, that question gets you out of his head and focusing on his actions (remember what I said earlier about turning off the talk and focusing on his actions).
Don’t do what I did — reach paralysis through analysis. I wasted far too much time trying to figure out why he did what he did rather than focus on what he did and how it made me feel. If I had manned up far earlier in the game and realized his behavior was crappy and made me feel like shit I could have cut my losses and saved myself endless heartache.
Hi Matt:
I really believe the live at home story. I did go to the house…when they weren’t there of course. But he’d call me every night and we would chat until bedtime…he would spend weekends with me but not the entire night. I think he was avoiding intimacy and for some reason didn’t want his parents to get to know me? He went to law school late in life, passed the bar a little over a year ago. I checked that out. Not married but his ex-wife whom he divorced over 9 yrs ago contacts him still. He didn’t want to be a lawyer. He works for his parents’ company and lives with the parents. Weird. Well I called him out and texted asking him if he considers me a pal or a buddy or if he wanted to start dating again because he said we’d hit a movie after the holidays and that the last few times I saw him he hasn’t shown me any affection. Of course, no response at all. I’m feeling kind of ill that I believed he loved me and he started coming around again to be in a relationship with me. Of course I gave too much…again. He’d been telling me about a movie date for over a month and then he put it off after the holidays. I got kind of fed up and just wanted to know if he was thinking of dating again or if he considers me a pal, a buddy?…nothing. No response. Zippo. This guy is so disconnected on expressing his feelings. But in the beginning he wasn’t. Had no problem telling me he loves me and how happy he was and how he almost gave up on finding someone. The no response thing drives me crazy. I don’t care what he says, but saying nothing drives me nuts. I’m not going to let it bother me anymore. It’s done…it’s not what I want. I want more than he is giving. Like you wrote to Numb, go by what you feel. I’m not feeling loved by this guy. But there are some other traits he has I’m concerned about. He believes in the creationism theory which is not that out there, but he believes he (or his ancestors) comes from planet Tiamat. That’s right. And he is prepared for the day Marshall Law may take over or some other catasrophe hits the planet. He has a small cache of guns and tons of survival goodies like MRE’s, military body armor, blood clotting stuff. He stays at home a lot playing video games too.
Matt, on the job front issue, this is the toughest time I’ve ever had landing a job. I have been interviewing but there are so many applicants that for some reason I’m not getting chosen. I think that’s while I’m dwelling on the ex…I need another outlet. I NEED A J.O.B.! You’re a lawyer…I’m an insurance professional. You live in NYC, I live in NJ. Can’t you and I start up something? and I’ll send you an invite to my linkedin profile.
Hi Ox,
He lives 15 minutes from me. I did google and that’s his address for sure. I think he’s just extremely immature and can’t have a real relationship because he lives at home. The only way he can have a real relationship is moving out…and I don’t see that happening anytime soon. He lives in a huge house with a pool in an affluent neighborhood and he said his mom wants to make him an apartment above the garage when they build the garage. Looks like she never wants him to leave…and he has no problem staying. Mom cooks for him, washes his clothes and all his other expenses like the car insurance etc are on the company tab. So, he can go out and date but that’s as far as it will go I think.
There isn’t any way to “get closure” with these guys (gals) except to make it for yourself.
You didn’t lose anything—that’s for sure. Can you imagine the MIL from hell you would have gotten with this guy? LOL Believe me, that apple probably didn’t fall far from the maternal tree. LOL
SLIM:
GREAT ADVICE to Numb!!!
Direct, consistent and to the point! I love that no nonsense approach!
RIGHT ON!
Numb~ Welcome and I hope you can read, educate yourself and remain loyal to yourself!
HE doesn’t matter! Really.
There is so much goodness in this website! Please take the time to learn and grow through the information you are seeking.
Good luck!
XXOO
EB
I Wonder – I agree with Oxy – that guy would have been a nightmare and so would Mama! In a Western society any man of that age still living at home is a bit of a red flag to me – apparently it is totally acceptable in Italy and other European countries.
In Italy these men are called ‘Momone’ or mother’s boy and they live at home generally until they get married. However in Italy a fifty percent deposit is required for most real estate so it’s kind of understandable men would need to save harder for that if parents are unwilling to assist. In Western societies though independence is highly valued.