Last week Lovefraud posted an article that described one woman’s experience of romantic manipulation by a sociopath. Another reader responded with advice.
This woman had been married to a narcissist, which in many ways is similar to a sociopath. Once she divorced him and started dating again, she relied on a list of red flags. “If I saw even ONE flag, the guy was OUT of my life, period,” she says. Here is her list.
Red flags
1) Needing to be around you as much as possible and knowing where you are at all times.
2) Refusing to have any meaningful social life, even with his own family.
3) Telling you what to wear and advising what is “appropriate clothing” for you.
4) Requesting that you spend all your free time with him and NONE with friends. (In the beginning, you can see friends on a limited basis, but he has to be there.)
5) Absolutely NO male friends or hugging any male.
6) Dictating what you look like, i.e., you should wear glasses instead of contact lenses, less makeup, less jewelry, etc.
7) No more going to the gym, men might look at you there while exercising.
8 ) Outright anger when you join a church or any other “institution.” The REAL issue is…he is afraid a priest or other “authority” will tell you what to do and “control” you.
9) Encouraging you to engage in unhealthy habits like not losing weight. They use these “bad habits” later to criticize you.
10) You cannot be “too friendly.” People might get the “wrong idea,” especially MEN.
11) You have the feeling of walking on eggshells, waiting for a blow-up if you say the wrong thing or say the right thing in a way he does not like.
12) You know he thinks he is smarter and better than others by his almost constant criticism of others…words like “idiot” and “slow learner” are a common part of his everyday language as he discusses others.
13) He loves the thrill of a good “fight” with nearly anyone, but when he perceives himself as the loser, he is a very poor one and there are always rationalizations for WHY he lost and they have nothing to do with HIM, of course.
14) He acts like he cares what you think, gives lip service to being “liberal” and open minded but his actions are the opposite.
15) He thinks absolutely NOTHING of lying and will take advantage of anyone at anytime if it furthers his goals.
16) You have never met anyone like him”¦he does things that no one else does…his behavior is simply outrageous to others and they shake their heads and say what GALL!
17) The rules do NOT EVER apply to him…he is above them.
18) He resents, on many levels, having to care for his children unless a woman is around to take on most of the “burden.”
19) He often “forgets” what he is supposed to do for his children (especially when it involves anything to do with money).
20) He says things that simply make NO sense and you, as a rational, logical person, just cannot quite figure it out.
21) He shows up with no notice at your job or home (no common sense of courtesy).
22) When he thinks he is being rejected, he calls, emails, comes to your home or job obsessively and often actually stalks.
23) Early in the relationship you are his “whole world” and he does not want to spend any time with anyone but you.
24) He seldom thanks anyone for anything.
25) These men are VERY adept at fooling others”¦everyone thinks they are just great and love you so much”¦BEWARE!
By the way, the woman who compiled—and applied—this list of red flags has healed and met a wonderful man who is now her fiancé.
Red flags I ignored (considered I was respecting his boundaries) …
* refused to talk about previous relationships
living with family member in mid twenties – sponging off family member is more accurate
* disclosed that he went through a period of picking up married women for one night stands – why married?
* no direction in life when I met him
* willing to relocate very quickly to be with me – if life was so great back home then why leave it?
* In early arguments when I questioned his emotions towards me he would say “I’m here aren’t I?” (as if turning up by itself is all that should be required of him)
* undeclared debts surfaced within a few months of being together – I stupidly paid them for him
* never kept in touch with family / friends back home
* lots of people asked me if he was gay – have seen hints of this in other people’s posts too and wondering if bisexualism is a feature of psychopathy??
* took no interest in our shared home – expected me to furnish and equip it – he just wanted to contribute a minimum amount of money
* spent money on himself constantly without reference to household obligations
* would deliberately stall on booking holiday times so they coincided with mine and then would blame his work as to why he couldn’t get the same time off
* took no interest in cooking at all – wouldn’t make lunches for work and never lifted a finger to make a meal. Didn’t demand that I cooked but we would have starved waiting on him. Would frequently say after I cooked “I don’t expect you to cook / clean for me” but then wouldn’t do any of it himself
* massive amounts of time spent on the computer or watching television
* big change after marriage – sulked on wedding day and things were very different immediately after
* no plan for honeymoon – we ended up not having one at all
* no savings – had to pay off old credit card debts before he arrived from his previous marriage
* Disclosed very late in the piece that he wasn’t actually divorced from his first wife even though she had moved on with a new man
* Blamed the entirety of the first marriage failure on his wife
* Pressure for sex early on and sulking when I said no
* Never lifted an iron or vaccum – yet expected to have clean pressed shirts for work
* excused sulking and the silent treatment as a need for ‘thinking time’ or ‘ alone time’
* Grandiose plans for the future that included fame and wealth but no blueprint to get there
* No interest in self development at all – never interested in exploring personality or psychology (now I know why though – he has no authentic personality!)
* Started controlling what I wore – accused me of drawing sexual attention to myself for wearing a top with lycra content that had a high neckline and was below the hips
* Very jealous of a male friend I had – encouraged me to stop socialising with him
* No empathy when a friend lost his mother to long term illness
* Gave away assetts to family members before arriving rather than selling them and stacking away the cash for setting up a new life
* No outings at all after marriage unless to the supermarket or to pick up dvds. No plans for holidays or social times
* Frequently said during arguments “I’m not a bad man you know”
* Created arguments over time I spend with family members
* dressed far more formally than his position at work required (delusions of grandeur?)
* cold and silent treatment if I didn’t do whatever he wanted
* Would frequently look annoyed and when I asked if anything was wrong would say ‘no’
* Wouldn’t buy new clothes. He brought quite old clothes with him, but wouldn’t buy a thing not even underwear. He would instead wear everything till it fell apart. I started buying his clothes with my own money quite early on
* Several lies were proven early on from emails I printed out and kept that were contradicted later in reality. He would always deny and lie some more – never took responsibility
* Never said sorry for anything
* Always brought chocolates and candies home even though he knew I was watching my weight
* Meal menus were restricted to what he wanted to eat despite the fact it was very unhealthy food. Never willing to try anything new – always the same orders for takeout and would refuse to try a new restaurant.
* Sulked through family celebrations and would scowl if pictures were taken. I eventually stopped taking them and a whole period of my life has no documentation
* Flouted minor laws as though they were games
* would encourage me to share my deepest thoughts but then wouldn’t reciprocate – I felt quite violated by this and eventually wised up and stopped sharing or encouraged him to go first
* Movies or outings were always his choice (movies and the occasional meal out were the only things we ever did). His choice of restaurant, his choice of dvds, his choice of time and place.
* Showed no interest in things I was interested in. Eventually I dropped most of my own interests – his hints were effective in the long run.
* very uncomfortable around children – had no idea of how to relate despite having young children in his own family.
* frequently late to arranged meetings – somehow always my fault
Those are just some of the slightly different red flags I experienced in addition to the listing in the main posting. I definitely know now what to look out for and will run at the first indication of any of them, but I had no idea there was even a listing of red flags for dangerous relationships. I was so trusting.
I feel like I am kind of different in the healing journey – I got mad at him years ago for his part in the b situation. I really got angry – my inner bitch did some major dealing to him. Of course that made me an abuser in his words though … I got out what was going wrong in the relationship that had contributed to it and how his behaviour was making me feel. Fat lot of good it did though – he blamed me and I turned the anger inwards and moved into a profound period of deep introspection and depression. So I had done some of this analysis many years ago. I feel that now I am reviewing it all in light of the belief he is a P. So this journey has been going on for a long long time. I really hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel soon!
Polly, your list had the same effect on me as the list in the main article – OMG!!!!
This is so accurate…well my relationship didn’t go as far as marriage, thankfully, but really, again, very similar behaviour on the S’s part. Contributed nothing to the flat we shared and even though he was the one who insisted on us moving together he had no interest in making it look like a home, some people asked me if he was gay, he was evasive about previous relationships, same bulls**t about holiday dates clashing, really unhealthy diet as well, etc etc etc etc!!!!! He used the same words, too, in the same contexts: “I’m here aren’t I?” – “I don’t expect you to cook / clean for me” – or more agressively: “I never asked you to do it!”
Didn’t say “I’m not a bad man” but “I’m a good person” – not in arguments though – in arguments everything he said was directed against me, he didn’t even bother defending himself.
I am going to compile all the flags in this thread and post the list to all my female friends!!
Oh wow Eileen – that sent a shiver up my spine – I had no idea others would have experienced exactly the same things. Jeepers creepers! Exactly the same lines too! Aaaarggh! Have you got more things your XS did? I am itching to know if we have anymore commonalities!
Can’t believe the clashing holiday dates or the unhealthy menus or no interest in building the home. I bought everything for our home out of my money – all reject stuff on sale so none of it matches because I always had to be careful with money – he couldn’t be relied on to be careful with his so I always fell for the larger share of the bills and living expenses. I also earned more throughout the relationship – could never save though. Was always having all my money sucked up because he never paid his share.
Bastard! The last yr he was here he paid half the mort and THAT WAS IT. He always had an excuse about why he couldn’t pay a bill or contribute to grocery expenses – ‘I can pay that next week when I get paid’ ‘But it’s due now’ “They can wait’ ‘No they can’t and my name is on the account as well as your’s’. It was a catch 22 as he had stuffed up his credit rating and had nothing to lose but I sure had mine to lose if I didn’t pay.
Getting rid of him has been the best thing. I was paying for everything anyway. What a parasite.
Em, let me see…”be responsible for your emotions”. “I have no reason to feel guilty for this”. “I’ll have a good job one day…I’m a good investment”. “You’re only doing this (eg, cooking) to make me feel guilty”. “You’re passive-agressive”. “You’re deluded”. “I’m handsome ain’t I?” “Don’t you think I could be a model?” (about our relationship) “We have potential”. “This isn’t a default relationship”.
Would always comment on people’s physical appearance, including my friends, saying that they’re ugly and that they have no self-confidence, that they must be very unhappy people.
Like yours, mine would sulk, but when I asked him if everything was ok he’d get angry. Still wouldn’t say why he was sulking in the first place – said that he wasn’t sulking, but the fact I asked him made him sulk. Often he wanted to sound like an intellectual but he was only talking nonsense. Pathetic.
He also manipulated me into paying everything and buying him clothes (but he was very concerned about his appearance and what he was wearing)…NEVER SAID THANK YOU…criticised my friends…was acting very jealous and possessive…had other relationships simultaneously (one of his gfs was like me doing a lot of cooking, cleaning and buying gifts for him). Clashing holiday dates – he wasn’t working (what a surprise) but claimed he couldn’t afford the flights. Once I was away he’d buy a (much more expensive) flight to see his Nth girlfriend.
He told me not to wear make-up. Maybe he got caught by his other gf with make-up on his shirt…or maybe it was just a form of control.
His personal hygiene left a lot to be desired. He also ate like a pig.
To think I put up with that pathetic scumbag!!! I wonder what kept me – his “potential”? So glad I found out about his cheating and lying – if not maybe I would still be cooking and cleaning and playing shrinks with that useless, parasitic, pedantic, controlling and nasty piece of crap!
Oh, and also, since the issue of sex came up in another thread – mine wasn’t even good in bed – LOL!!!
He also kept saying that he was stressed and under pressure – “I’m a busy man” (from one of the laziest, most unproductive spongers in town). His best quote, in retrospect, must be: “I’m a feminist”. You have to laugh!!! He was lying about his age and had more cosmetics than me – he was hiding them though – seems they didn’t do a great job, he looked even older than his real age.
I don’t understand why I did that to myself – why I stayed with him. My friends were wondering what I was doing with a jerk like that (and they didn’t know how he really was, I didn’t tell them about his arrogant and stupid behaviour). He was very good at seducing me initially – agreeing with everything I said, claiming he had read the books I read, which he hadn’t, etc; he sounded educated and clever; I suppose he was entertaining in his own way… what’s left really, is that he was extremely good at manipulation…His manipulation, promises, his hypocritical sweet words, the dream he’d create, etc – HIS LIES – is actually what really made me stay. That’s about it.
Never again!! Back to the basics – guy with stable job, clean, who can look after himself, of who my friends approve, never mind if he hasn’t read my obscure favourite authors!!
Ha! That’s quite a list and you didn;t even get the benefit of good sex! It made me think of a few more …
“You think too much” (usually when I was analysing something crappy he had done!)
“You;re too emotional” (really – ya think?! I think any woman would be the same given the circumstances)
His hygiene was gross too – – could slop around the house for a few days without showering but if going out – oh boy he spent longer getting ready than me. He had to have expensive products while I made do with what was on sale or cheap.
“You don;t need to wear makeup” – I think that;s so we;re not attractive to anyone else.
“Be patient with me” I couldn;t have been more patient – all pipe dreams and no way of achieving them. I read on another site they handicap themselves because they’re so arrogant they think they don’t need to make an effort – then if they achieve they laugh and say “Well I didn;t even try and look what I did!”
“I’m trying my best” (yeah buddy well your best was nowhere near good enough!)
“I’m not as in touch with my feelings as you” (What feelings?!)
“It’s hard for me” (not as hard as you made it for me)
“What do you want from me?” Usually said in argument when ‘feel sorry for me’ mode switched into action.
He also boasted about his appearance and how other males were jealous of his youthful looks – he doesn’t look so youthful now though – looks tired and anxious.
“I’m not a bad person” (sh*t – yes you are)
Me too – stable and dependable is all good – no more dramas thankyou very much!
He he! “In touch with his feelings” that’s a good one. We should put together a list of sociopath quotes!! About his looks – mine pretended people looked at him on the street – he said that when he was younger it was hard for him to cope with female attention, because he was very shy and introverted (yeah sure…)
Never made any effort either…thought he was a born genius…
The food thing though…could feed on cakes and biscuits and nothing else…would use books as plates or the table itself…gross. I suppose I was addicted to the drama, and in a very masochistic way I liked to take care of him, I had no idea he was cheating on me (I thought: who would want that – who else than stupid me) – but at times I wished I had a boyfriend I didn’t need to educate as a 3-year old child…Oh good riddance. Anyway with his diet in 5 years time he’ll be obese and all his teeth will have fallen out.
…that’s one good thing with sociopaths. We wish them the worst – but they have it already and they can’t escape it: it’s themselves. It seems to me that very few can achieve anything good – well, some can have a good job and all that, but most of them are just serial losers, they survive by parasiting others but ultimately their lives are going nowhere – it is a shame that they drag others in their own downfalls. Anyway, the debts pile up and the track record gets worse and worse… and with time they lose their looks which means so much to them and which is the only thing they can’t lie about…I wonder if any sociopath has co-erced one of his victims into paying for his plastical surgery??
That’s very true Eileen – they are already in hell but don’t really realise it – our stay is just a short one hopefully.
I can relate to the child comment – at one point in the relationship I realised he was behaving like a child so I started using some ‘classroom management’ techniques on him lol “You need to … OR else I will …”
“IF you don’t … then this will happen”
Honestly it was like talking to a six yr old – I became quite resentful of having a child living with me but wreaking adult havoc – at least six yr olds can;t get credit cards!
I bet there are some that have conned plastic surgery or at a minimum cosmetic procedures.
Thanks for the back and forth today Eileen – I’m feeling quite buoyed now and had a damned good giggle at some of the things you wrote!
I am really struggling right now and googled about men who manipulate etc..
I am a successful woman that recently divorced after a long marriage and met a man thru my business in 2005 .once he found out i was getting a divorced he sent an email saying that the day he saw me he was hammered, an angel from above and he knew he and i were soul mates etc..
now after dating for a year i found out he wasnt where he was supposed to be and confronted him …
he had plans to move in with this other woman and me at the same time. he has never allowed me to even speak to a male friend …if one called i got yelled at like ive never experienced. he always allows me to pay for everything and the day i found out about his other gf he had asked me to borrow several thousand dollars.
he would not let me wear clothes that were summer dresses if to flowy and sheer…even tho this is tx and it was 100 outside. he came to visit and was to be here from ny for only a couple weeks and it turned into almost three months..he developed a 4 bottle a nite drinking problem and when he left he told me he went to rehab…now i dont know.
i cut him off last week but he is calling and im afraid he is going to weave back into my life!!! he is already wanting to move here and he will need my financial assistance and also its up to me to figure out what type of biz to open for us.
im just so emotionally upset and confused and i truly believed he was an honest person.
he knew i had come outof a very unhealthy marriage and a large amount of money…anyone have anything to advise ?? maybe with something someone else can share will help me get this and have the courage to cut it out of my life before he depletes me emotionally and financially..thanks