By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
Last week I wrote an article about the captain of the sunken Italian ship who said he “fell into a life boat by accident” and that was why he got off the ship very early, not waiting for the rescue efforts. It also turned out this married man was with his lover and was drunk at the time the ship was steered, on his command, closer than normal to an island so he could show it off to the residents and his friends there, crashing it into known rocks.
Even after the ship had hit the rocks and was stuck, he denied to the company and potential rescuers that anything other than an electrical “black out” occurred and delayed even issuing an “abandon ship” until it was on its side an hour later, making the ability to abandon ship at that point almost impossible. Amazingly there was actually a small number of dead and missing out of about 4,000 people on the ship since it happened close to shore. I stated that his unbelievable lie (alone) made me think the man was a psychopath, and subsequent information confirms this to me that the man is high in P-traits.
Josh Powell
Another horrible tragedy, which also had significant “Red Flags” displayed, was reported this past week in the news. Josh Powell, whose wife had “disappeared” a couple of years ago, blew up his home, killing himself and his two young sons on a “supervised” visit. His father, who had lived in his home, had previously been arrest for secretly videotaping others undressed.
Read: ”˜Mommy’s in the turnk’: Sons of missing woman gave chilling account of her disappearance before father killed them in gas blast, on DailyMail.co.uk.
Here is a short quote from the article:
It is a horrific end to a long, bizarre tale. Josh Powell was under investigation in the disappearance of his 28-year-old wife Susan from their West Valley City, Utah, home in December 2009. He claimed he had taken the boys on a midnight excursion in freezing temperatures when she vanished.
His explanation of how and why his wife “disappeared” is bordering on the unbelievable level of the Captain of the Concordia “falling into a life boat by accident.” His children later said that they went camping and “mom was in the trunk.”
Another red flag to me is that the Josh Powell’s father is a pervert, and was arrested in the home with pornography he had secretly recorded of girls and women. He is currently in prison awaiting trial. Since we know that psychopathy and dysfunction tends to run in families, both by genetics and by environmental influence, I would say that Josh’s father being a sexual criminal would put him high on my list of “red flag” people associated with Josh, and would give Josh a second look from me.
Learning from the news
Learning about “red flags” doesn’t have to be done by being around people. We can “practice” looking for red flags in the evening news, the news we read online, in the papers and the stories we hear about. When we hear about some horror story, or just some person’s divorce, we may be able to use that as a “learning experience” and see the red flags that, as we practice, will become more and more obvious to us.
I was also glad to see an article in yesterday’s Sunday paper by Carolyn Hax in her column Tell Me About It. A young man talked about catching his girlfriend in a lie and how controlling she was ”¦ and he asked Carolyn her opinion of this relationship. Carolyn didn’t call the woman a controlling witch but she told him to dump the woman, that there was no chance a control freak who was a habitual liar was going to be rehabilitated. Good advice. I’m glad to see more advice along this line in some of our “advice to the lovelorn” columns.
If we look around us in the news, in our neighborhood, we can watch for the “red flags” that show themselves all over the place. The Flags that tell us “get out of that relationship” or “don’t start a relationship with that person” or “aren’t we glad we didn’t have a relationship.” Not all of these people will be full fledged murdering psychopaths or sexual perverts, but they will have some character flaws that we don’t want to deal with ”¦ like pathological lying or controlling behavior. It helps us learn and the “tuition” cost is zero.
Hi, Sparklehorse,
I wrote a welcome post to you…but it went into cyber space some how. LOL
I’m glad you are here, we only have one other attorney who posts here (Matt) and he is doing well and doesn’t post daily any more. He is a Federal DA in Washington DC….
I hope you can be a change agent with your co workers and with the judges and others about educating them about psychopaths, esp the sub criminal ones. It is IMPORTANT and something that only an insider can really do….
Thanks for your post, and again, welcome! This is a great place for learning!
Welcome Sparklehorse: thank you for your thoughts.
I completely and totally agree with you.
I have been in the med/legal field as well, my whole life and personality disorders and sociopathy is NOT addressed by anyone adequately enough, I feel. Not in medical or legal. I think it is a relatively ‘new’ issue because up until now, it has always been buried away in mental institutions and hospitals. Almost a ‘tabu’ of sorts. Now, with so many ‘rights’ afforded to them ‘legally’, they are quite capable of escaping any ramifications as they always seem to know how to navigate under the radar, so to speak.
Yes, healing is a very long journey.
Out of all the things I have seen, experienced, witnessed and have come through, personally, in my life, this has been the most exhausting and self sacrificing.
I know what you mean about being ‘over inclusive’.
Not a chance. Not when it comes to defending yourself.
Personal safety is of the primary importance in situations like this. It has taken me a long time to learn what this illness is.
Out of all the training I have had in my lifetime, not once was socipathy ever taught nor spoken of, you are right. I wonder why that is? Certainly, it has been around, longer than I am old…I will be 61 this year and had a biological mother who was very sociopathic. So, as far as history of awareness goes, I guess we are stuck at the burning beginning of awareness.
I feel that unless we all speak up collectively and learn and educated ourselves and make people aware, nothing will ever change. They will just keep on scamming their victims, being dangerous and contemptuous and escaping due process and thereby escaping our justification. However, I do believe we can achieve this ‘justification’ within ourselves. Absolutely. By recognizing and accepting our worth and our value and standing on those premises.
For two years, I counseled and not one time did I ever hear: “Well, it sounds like you are involved with a pyschopath.” NOT ONE TIME did I hear that! It was up to ME to figure this all out. And I have and I am more confident and more strong and more aware than ever before.
“Parasitic” is a very good word for what they are.
And I know we sound ‘mean’ and berating and maybe a little too much so, considering we are suppose to be kind, loving and compassionate human beings – but somehow they make that very difficult for us.
You are fortunate someone stepped up and told you what you were dealing with or you would never have known.
That is exactly what Love Fraud has done for me.
Love and peace to you Sparklehorse: we are here for you. This is a very difficult experience in our lives but one we will never forget; hm?
Hi Sparklehorse,
What you said made me sad, and also the story about the murderer of wife and children… how court professionals (lawyers, judges, and dare we say “CPS INVESTIGATORS”) have little or no clue about this. Yeah, that poor daddy(murderer) needs a relationship with his children. He has a right to visitation with them!
I think sometimes the court professionals intervene in a helpful way and lives are saved and justice is done. But what proportion of the time do well-meaning court professionals (oh, and let’s add mental healthcare professionals and school counselors and teachers to the list) totally misread the situation and meddle and make things WORSE?
And I’m saying, these people are well-meaning, desire to be helpful. But misunderstand. And unwittingly collude in causing damage.
This is the sadness and anguish… red flags IGNORED or explained away, or people who only insist on seeing the good in everyone (loved that rat poison analogy!).
It’s so complicated. If you are being harmed by that 1% lie or poison and no one else sees it. And they have power (power of the state) to come in and meddle in your family and make things worse.
I wanted to ask the CPS lawyer, how are you so sure that you have the facts straight? I didn’t ask her that. I did say, though, that I’d been falsely accused and every “supporting” detail in their report was a lie which had come from my ex-husband. (he said she said, you know). And she said basically that I just needed to get over it. It’s a terrible thing to be falsely accused and then never any type of apology made or acknowledgement made that perhaps they were mistaken.
So that is just to say… 1% lies can do a great deal of damage. And the damage is compounded by the well-meaning folks who work in our child welfare and criminal justice systems who do not get spaths.
I hope this is changing. I hope they listen to you, Sparklehorse, and include info on domestic violence and sociopathy in their training lectures and seminars.
Welcome, Sparklehorse.
Yah…the legal system doesn’t address sociopathy or other behavioral disorders that specifically harm source targets (victims).
My State has (like most) no-fault divorce, which, on its face is a good idea to protect all parties involved – assuming that both parties are reasonable adults. But, when it comes to Family Court and sociopaths, it’s incredible at what the spaths seemingly get away with.
In my case, the soon-to-be-exspath was not only involved in very sick sexual interests and activities, but he drained me of my private financial resources WITH IMPUGNITY. He had such a sense of ownership of my resources that he actually forged my signature on dozens of drafts, along with his own signature! And, what recourse do I have? VERY LITTLE.
“No Fault” does not apply in my situation (as with most). This should be addressed, especially when a sociopath is involved. Someone IS at fault – deliberately, intentionally, and with malice aforethought. They target their victims, financially bleed them like a kosher steer, and are able to effectively discard the now-exanguinated victim and receive legal compensation for their actions – because it is “equitable.”
When the Courts are dealing with a custody/visitation issue and a sociopathic parent is involved, it’s deplorable on every level. The child suffers because they are only viewed as personal property by the spath. The victim-ex suffers because the Court must remain “equitable.” What the Courts cannot seem to grasp is that an innocent child DOES NOT need the attention or contact with “both parents” when one is spath – the child is used/absued by the spath to “get even” with the former victim, and the child does not have a legal voice.
This is something that must be changed, given that the rate of sociopathy is growing at an exponential rate in our society and culture.
Brightest blessings!
Oh, and to clarify…..20Years has it spot-on: some people do not deserve to enjoy visitation/custody of innocent lives. The innocent lives are far better off without the spath influences and tortures.
Thank GOD I did not have a child with the soon-to-be-exspath!
Actually, I think that in a way there is hope that we can make society more aware about this, at least in our society.
While it may seem as if our modern world has turned spathier, at the same time we have a better chance of informing people. There is of course the (a) the internet, and (b) sexual revolution half a century ago.
Imagine what it would have been without the latter? Without it, we’d live in a society where divorce is either impossible, illegal or totally unacceptable. Without it, we’d live in a society where you could not have an affair with someone, or at least if you did, it would be absolute tabu to talk about it, unless we’d bring all relatives to disgrace. And this goes for men as well as women. Without it, we’d never be able to make a living on our own and regain independence.
But at least we now live in a society where nobody frowns at us for dating someone else, living with them for a while, even marry and escape a bad relationship anymore. We don’t have to keep it a social secret.
I’m not so sure whether it makes for more victims. The inuit spath beds the married wives of his tribe as serial as spaths do in our world. But we’ll not be ostracised for it or shunned from society for it. We can still speak up from a more personal experience and inform people, even if we can only do it bit by bit.
Both society and internet created a forum where victims can speak up.
I am currently reading a book called “Dangerous Instincts – How Gut Feelings Betray Us” by Mary Ellen O’Toole.
I do not remember if I found it through a post on Love Fraud or through internet searches on detecting deception (just finished a work course on this).
Mary Ellen O’Toole was a FBI Profiler. This book focuses on psychopathy and “how you can measure the risk of any situation and assess the behavior and true personality of the people around you – strangers, coworkers, bosses, even friends and dates”.
I’d thought I’d share this as discussions about seeing red flags and being too nice and so on have me assessing my own risk taking and naivety in the past.
Anyways, if someone else has read this – I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts. I’m only on Chapter 3 and am thankful that I am able to ‘get this’ now – whereas in the past I’ve read about psychopathy etc and couldn’t make the connection to what was going on for me at the time.
Shelley
First, thank you Ox Drover, Duped No More and 20years for the warm welcome!
I am not very familiar with the details of this (Powell) case because for some reason I hadn’t heard about it until reading here.
I would guess that the red flags were not entirely ignored since the judge had ordered particular psychological exams of the father. Nonetheless, why the visitation ordered was to take place at the father’s home under the circumstances is puzzling. I am also puzzled by the reports that (1) the children didn’t want to visit their father and yet (2) they ran ahead of the social worker so the social worker was locked out of the house. It seems like something is missing from the narrative. There is perhaps relevant information missing from the narrative given to us by the media.
Regarding the right to visitation, there is a balancing act here that can create binds. The father’s parental rights were not terminated and we don’t know the details of what evidence the judge had when making determinations of what kind of visitation should be authorized. I would think the fact that supervised visitation was ordered indicates that red flags were seen.
The sad fact is, sometimes the sociopath is believed by the family services staff. After my training on Friday, a friend called to discuss one of her cases. When she described it to me recently, I told her I thought the father sounded like a sociopath. They had a hearing and his lawyer duped around a report my friend was trying to get released to her. Based on her description of the hearing, I think the attorney is also a spath. Afterwards the father taunted my friend in the hallway of the courthouse. My friend said that the family services people all think he’s a good father and believe everything he tells them. The mother is apparently a wreck and very anxious when around him. Hopefully my friend, who represents one of the children, will be able to unmask him while staying safe herself. As Duped No More mentioned, personal safety has to be of utmost concern and there is risk for people involved as professionals in legal proceedings as well.
Duped No More, you are so right that I was fortunate to have someone step up and help me understand what I was dealing with. I was even more fortunate that I had more than one person. One of the gifts of this experience is feeling how much love there is in my world.
The following is a quote from Alina Powell, Josh’s sister.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/final-voicemail-released-josh-powell-murder-suicide-explosion-article-1.1018458#ixzz1litMrJwl
This is a typical example of a person who is raised in a spath family, (they had a pedophile father). Josh is dead and she is STILL enabling him. She is still making excuses for him. She still thinks that this happened because everyone was mean to him.
As far as learning the red flags, we have to be aware that people who are raised with/by spaths are usually not going to get out unscathed. If they are not spaths themselves, they will often fall into the category of enablers and that means that they are blinded to a certain aspect of reality.
I speak from my own experience as enabler extraordinaire. Often time, as in my case, it isn’t until the enabler is chosen as the sacrificial scapegoat and actually targeted to die in a horrific act of betrayal, that her eyes are opened.
We are trauma bonded into believing as we do. We are addicted to the relief we get from being true believers in our families. I hope that Alina gets counseling, but I doubt that she will.
Sparklehorse,
welcome. I’m very glad you’re helping your friend represent this woman. I feel like there is no better place to learn about and discuss spaths than the LF blog. People here really really GET IT. Any time you need support or assistance understanding what you are encountering, please feel free to ask. There are many of us here who are happy to provide answers derived from our own experiences.