By | May 18, 2011 336 Comments

Relating to Maria Shriver

With all the uproar over Arnold Schwarzenegger and his “love child,” our friend Ann over at just wrote about her own experience of a cheating husband.

Read I can relate with Maria Shriver ”¦ at

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My heart goes out to Maria. I ache for her. I cannot even imagine the shock she is going through, not to mention how public her life is and how she has to deal with that on top of everything as well. Arnold is sociopathic scum and I’m betting on more women to come out of the woodwork ( i just read an article on another lady who admitted to being a mistress while he was still married.. ) .. there must be hoards of them. Not to mention the child who Schwarzenegger had with the housekeeper was born FIVE days apart from his son with Maria Shriver. Thus Maria and the housekeeper were pregnant at the same time ( boys are the same age ). And to think he thought in his pigheadedness that he could somehow intimidate the housekeeper with his money and status.. he reportedly fired her before the whole ordeal propped up in the media.

My hope is that Maria and her children are able to weather this very unexpected and difficult storm at this time. Tough deal. :/

Ox Drover

I agree with dancingnancies, the sheer ballsyness of it all, the having the woman in the home with his family for 10 years while he had a child with her and paid her off $1200 a week for being a housekeeper is a pretty pricey job….if you know of one at that salary please let me know, I’d like to apply for it. For that price I will clean their floors with a toothbrush….Let’s see, I made a bit more than that when I worked, but I have 6 years of college, and national board certification in my field, and my responsibilities were critical to people living or dying….if I had known how well being a maid paid I would have stayed in that profession…I did work my way through college cleaning other people’s homes, so I have experience.

The one thing I would have had a problem with though, was farking my married boss and then being around his wife and family and not feeling guilty about it at least. But then maybe this woman doesn’t have much of a moral compass either…maybe she enjoyed pulling the wool over her mistresses eyes and snarking behind her back “Well, you think you’re special but I’m farking your husband and I’ve got his kid too, na, na, naaa na na!”

I think the whole thing, especially with the maid/mistress/baby mama in the house for 10 years it shows that Arny has the ULTIMATE IN lack of respect for his wife, much less love. He is the ultimate egotist and narcissistic arsehole if nothing else.

Yes, I feel sorry for Maria, she has a “hard row to hoe” and to do it in the public spot light, but at the same time, I think she will come out in the public opinion smelling just fine and he will stink top high heaven. The only ones who will “admire” him or have any pity or sympathy for him are the turds just like him, and who cares what they think anyway? NO ONE of any class or couth will have anything but contempt for him.


Yeah it’s a COLOSSAL red flag for someone to guiltlessly carry on AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED ( And even while he proudly proclaimed himself Governor of California while sporting the facade of a perfect family life ) for more than 10 years! How empty are his words that attempt at any show of remorse, after he has willingly tucked this whole ordeal neatly behind his breastpocket at the expense of his family’s well-being for such a long time. The idea that this guy then felt smug enough to run for governor and maintain two terms is beyond disturbing.

Ox Drover

I saw on the news tonight that he had canceled his bid to return to movies to “concentrate on his family”—yea, right!


I saw when he held the press conference to express “profound regret” to the hurt he caused his family. Holy jeepers, his remorse was so freakin’ insincere. THe way he held his head down like a puppy that just peed on the rug–so phony. I didn’t believe it for a second. Classic narcissist, and that’s just probably the tip of that iceberg.


Yes, that was ballsy to have the maid living in the house several years after the fact of the affair and only a spath could pull that off without guilt or conscience taking over.
The accounts I read said the maid hid the fact the baby was Arnold’s until he was a toddler. Also Maria gave her a baby shower not knowing she was carrying Arnold’s baby.
Given the fact that I could not condone Arnold’s behavior don’t you think the maid smelled money and blackmail when she got pregnant by Arnold?
I mean this lady was in her late 30’s. It’s not like she didn’t know about birth control at the time. Wasn’t she even married or in a relationship at the time?
One account I read said he gave her the down payment on her house. So one might as well say her liason with Arnold won her the lottery.
And speaking of famous spaths was Liz Taylor one?
I’m asking because she seemed to hold a lot of the similarities
and conditions of a sociopath. Multiple spouses, etc. Debby Reynold’s said that when Liz wanted someone she went after them married or not without even carrying about the family she destroyed. Debby even said, she warned Eddie that Liz would soon tire and get bored with him and discard him.


Some women (speaking of the maid) come from environments that are so desperate that they develop a do or die mentality; it is all about survival and it is ruthless.

I DO NOT condone what she has done. I personally think she should be sued for extortion and alienation of affection. If possible in CA.

The woman ADDICTION/TURD is with now is from a Central American country where things are very, very hard and she RUTHLESSLY went after him with a lot of lies even denying she knows him and claiming to be “a born again christian (small c-thanks Ox for that one!). All the while she has an agenda anyone with 1/2 a brain cell can smell 100 miles away. A good friend of mine works with several women from her country and he says they are tenacious in their survival.

I am NOT saying that it is because she is an immigrant. My GG father on my dad’s side was born in Chihuahua, Mexico so NOT GOIN THERE OK?

Just saying the woman (Arnie’s maid and TURD’s new GF) has a totally different (and disgusting IMO) outlook on survival. This, I believe causes SOME OF THEM (maybe spaths-I suspect new GF is whacked out) to do things that are not admirable to say the least.

There are many people who come here and are as honest as the day is long and just about the hardest working folks anyone could meet. Most of my neighbors fit that description. The best neighbors a person can have.

I suspect new GF is doing his housekeeping, yard work, and bed work. Wow three for one. What a deal for him. Not so much for her. I can bet if they were younger she would MOST DEFIANTLY get pregnant to score a meal ticket. And he is just a retired teacher-not much to his name money wise. Arnie on the other hand was a huge SCORE for one of those types.

My heart breaks for Maria. I am sure, like all of us, she wanted to believe the best but she WAS/IS addicted to him. Poor gal. I can relate. But she is tough-she comes from hardy Irish stock and trust me-she will survive ( in a good way) !!! I have no doubt.

Arnie on the other hand,”well stick a fork in him, he’s done”.

I am sure I just might get a few kicks in the ass for this post so I’m bending over now ok? Just HAD TO SAY IT!!!



No, not at all…I don’t think you will get a few kicks in the ass, especially not from me. It all makes sense to me. The OW who was in triangulation with me proclaims she grew up extremely poor (you wouldn’t know it now…has a good job, dresses very well, just a cute ball of sexual energy), but I am guessing if what she says is true and she did grow up extremely poor, this is what has driven her to do the things she has done. I am also guessing it is what made her into a master manipulator and one of the biggest liars I have ever met. I am not saying whatsoever that everyone who is poor is a liar. What I am saying is I am thinking that maybe because she was so poor she had to lie in school…lie to her teachers, lie to her classmates all to keep up a facade because she was ashamed of being poor?? I don’t know…I just try to figure out the “whys.”

Anyway, you are right…it’s always the ones who are scammed that come out on the other side OK. It’s the ones doing the scamming who are NEVER OK!!!


TBH, I do not find much sympathy for Maria Shriver, much as I could not find much sympathy for Hillary Clinton.

They are not women in denial. They knew what was going on and continued relationships with their “husbands” for their own personal gain.

Any “hurt” is merely a reflection on their personal embarrassment when their husbands got caught doing something particularly egregious that could not get swept under the rug.


whew!! thanks eb. I came very close to deleting that post but I decided to leave it because I think it is a valid point to think of in the case of Maria’s LOUSE of a maid and her DICK HEAD husband.

Thank you!!

Poverty causes people to do some desperate things. Sure the maid is not living in poverty now but who knows what she experienced in her country. Guatemala is a desperately poor country just like the country where ex’s new GF is from. Violence up the kazoo and political intrigue and desparately poor conditions. That does not exactly create a sound mind in someone spending their formative years trying to survive.

I do believe in Karma or as C/christians call it “reaping what you sow”.

I don’t want to be on the bad side of that.

Thanks again for understanding. I am a bit bitter at her (new GF) but I am trying to forgive and pray my way through it. When the Arnie story broke I felt somewhat vindicated for some odd reason. Because they are from similar countries and have done similar things. New Gf told me her best friend accused her of sleeping with her husband (of course boo hoo it was not true and she lost a life long friendship boo hoo). I’ll bet my next paycheck it was true…I looked up her divorce decree and her American husband divorced her ass because she is CRAZY. The decree reads like a rap sheet…ADDICTION/TURD has a huge payback coming….



I do agree there. I have said before in previous posts on here that Maria had to know what was going on. She is a smart woman…come on! Just like we all knew what was going on when we were being scammed, but we chose to put up with it, BUT…only for a little while.

BTW, your name reminds me of my spath. He has blue eyes and is English and I have always loved that song by the Who. When I listen to the words of that song, it so describes him.



I do feel sorry for Maria because as a victim of a spath/narc I know what she is feeling. Yes Hillary could have left but then she would not be where she is today. Is that right or wrong? I can’t judge her, I don’t know her.

Arnie had more to gain from marrying Maria than she had in marrying him. I believe she loved him just like we loved/love our ex.s We too knew what was going on and we are still hurting over that shaft yes? I know I am.



Wow, yeah, it sounds like your spath and his new GF deserve each other. They will BOTH find out soon enough if they haven’t already!!

Yeah, I think the Karma bus is moving a bit too slow. But it will eventually get to its destination! 🙂


I personally WOULD NOT stay married to someone like that knowing what they are. I prolly would have never married them in the first place. Once I found out about TURD and his revolving door, I DUMPED HIS ASS and tho I get mighty temped I have not gone back.

But I just can’t speak for others that stay. I fully understand the betrayal bond and the Stockholm syndrome. It really does a job on our minds….


HaHa eb good one….the karma bus moves mighty slow…LOVE it!! Mind if I use it? 🙂


eb I am thinking that she will stick with his wandering because in her country it is expected of men to have mistresses. They look the other way as long as he does not get caught. But if he thinks she is a shrinking violet he will have a HUGE wake up call. I can bet he has not read her divorce papers.

What will happen is this; it is all about him all of the time. She will play the game at first, clean his house, do his yard work and his sorry ol ass but will begin to pressure him for some perks. It is there that she will screw herself because he is a raging bull and will not allow any woman to tie him down.

Because she is much younger than him and fairly attractive (and I won’t go anywhere near him) he will hang on until he fills that vacancy. She will then get wind of it and ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE and boy don’t I wish I was a fly on that wall!!

Like I have said in the past, I am certainly no saint 🙂


I originally put a lot of the blame on the poor, corrupt and criminal and violence on Nicaragua to explain the behaviour of my ex. He often said “I’m survivng!”.

But he wasn’t. First of all, his dad owned several properties, a big house of several buildings right smack in the middle of the highest booming tourist town at the coast. He had another property somewhere else, plus land. His mom owns a large house up north. They’re not rich of course, have to make ends meat for sure, like everyone needs to in that country. But his father was enterprising, and very conscious of ensuring a future for his children when they grew up as well as after his death. He even ensured monetary future to raise my ex-es son, and funded the higher education of the mother of my ex-es son so she can become a clerk instead of having to work in the field picking bananas. His cousin was raised as his sister. She works in a pharmacy in San Jose in Costa Rica. His dad was a retired firefigther with medals. His family could be called middle class.

Neither his older half-brother and cousin show the same behaviour. Ex never needed to survive. He was well taken care of. They all were and are.

I thought he sold drugs to kinda ensure some income, in a country where jobs are so hard to get. And because he had lived on my budget for a while, I must admit I was not totally naysaying against seeing some return. But I found after a while, that he was the worst dealer I ever saw. (a) he used (b) conned his clients by not showing up with the drugs after getting their money (c) showed off his large amount and hid it somewhere in the public areas where anyone could get to it if they looked. (d) he attracted too much attention to himself I told him once or twice.

He’s not surviving at all, he’s spending everyone’s money on drugs and drinking and party. In the days after his dad’s funeral his cousin claimed in shock that he had spent 1000$ of his inheritance in one night. That’s when his mom came down to save the remainder and keep it for him for his paper work and plane tickets to Belgium. His cousin had to return to Costa Rica to work, and begged me to convince him to return to Costa Rica where he had lived for 3 months after I left back home, before his rapid return for his father’s funeral.

Yes, there was a lot of criminality, yes there were a lot of drugs, yes the country is highly corrupt, and it’s the 3rd poorest country in the world… but now I finally recognize that he is not just a petty clumsy criminal trying to survive… he is one of the heavy criminals there, though not bussiness smart. He is not an addict. My mom thought he might be. But I never ever felt he was addicted to it at all, except the weed, and that’s a mental addiction, not a physical one. They just smoke the pot I think because when they’re still and quiet and there’s nothing exciting to do, at least something is happening in their heads.

I’ve known plenty more Nicaraguans with girlfriends of the US and European countries, who do occasionally like a wild party… but they were hard working and conscious about their lives, as well as the future. Most are… he wasn’t at all.


“BTW, your name reminds me of my spath. He has blue eyes and is English.”

So was mine…



Uh, oh…maybe they were the same person?



Of course you can use the Karma bus remark. I actually got it from Facebook in their Status Shuffle area. I thought it ws hilarious!

Ox Drover

Interesting conversation…..immigrants from other countries come here to try to improve themselves one way or another….most of us had ancestors who came here, an d few had ancestors who met the boat, but the greater percentage whether they came in the the 1600s or in the 2000s came here to better themselves from bad situations in their home countries. Some came here to work, some to deal drugs, but whatever the “job” once they got here it was to “better themselves.”

I didn’t grow up in ABJECT poverty, but my step dad was a school teacher and my egg donor worked as an accountant and we lived very frugally but I had all I NEEDED. I have been in many 3rd world countries, both “christian” and “Muslim” from South America to Southern and eastern Africa….and I have seen people who had neither enough to eat or enough clean water to drink, and were DESPERATE.

DESPERATE people will do DESPERATE things to “better” themselves….and one of those things for women is to find a “powerful” (or at least more powerful than they are) man and attach themselves to him by sex and/or a child.

In many poverty stricken cultures this is the ONLY way out for a woman and in some cultures for a man to have a “mistress” in addition to a wife is not counter to the culture, and is fairly acceptable in reality if not legally or openly.

The mother of Arny’s child may very well have been focused on this aspect of her own desperation to attach herself to a powerful man in order to protect herself and her other children as well as the “love child.”

There are available today on the internet “mail order brides” from all over the world where women will essentially marry a stranger just to get a green card. Some of these women ARE psychopaths…some just desperate to get enough to eat and out of the horrible conditions in which they live.

IN much of the world, unfortunately, women are worse than “second class” citizens, they are chattel property of their fathers or husbands, and have little or no say in who they marry and are unable to find support even in the most abusive of arranged marriages.

Remember that little girl whose father in law cut her nose and ears off (her picture was on Time Magazine cover) because she ran away from the horrible beatings she received from her husband’s family….even her own father refused to take her in when she went to him. She was less to him than a dog being kicked.

I don’t condemn some of these women for doing whatever desperate thing they have to do to survive—however, Arny’s maid did have a job where she made darned good money, and she had a retirement plan and she was NOT destitute by any means and she knowingly went ahead and had sex with her boss in her boss’s house, knowing what it would do to her boss’s wife if the wife found out. So, I don’t have a lot of empathy for this woman, but it might explain some of what went on considering from the culture and back ground she came from.

My main disgust is focused on Arny. He is a slime ball Me thinks. I hope Maria’s pit bull divorce attorney cleans him out.


Oxy, YES!!! Like I said the maid should be sued up the yin yang. She is certainly living the life of Riley at the cost of HER SON and Maria and her kids. Sick!!

“DESPERATE people will do DESPERATE things to “better” themselves”.and one of those things for women is to find a “powerful” (or at least more powerful than they are) man and attach themselves to him by sex and/or a child. ”

This was my point exactly. I don’t care if she’s from Tookamunga she did just what you said and I see women doing it all the time (and some men who are gold diggers too-look at Za za Gabor’s husband) Don’t know how to spell her name…

Yes let’s not take the focus off Arnold. Looks as if Maria has hired a PI to sniff out all the other kids he may have from who knows who.

I hope she nails his ass to the wall!!


“eb92044 says:

Uh, oh”maybe they were the same person?”

Was he gay?

Side note, I truly believe the “british charm” allowed me to ignore red flags I otherwise would have not…


Darwinsmom I knew there was someone here who has a connection to Central America. At 53 I am suffering from CRS! Thanks for giving your insight. TURD GF is not from Nicaragua but close. Don’t want to say because I know there are many many really good folks from her country and don’t wish to offend.

You are right on that even those from the upper crust can be very corrupt (and some of the poorest of the poor can be the best people). I wasn’t generalizing just saying that the one’s I know of are ruthless in their attempts to gain a foot up on the social mobility ladder.

So sorry that you have such yucky remembrances of him. I hope you are carrying on and getting some healing. I know I am with LF.

I think TURD GF is both. Ruthlessly surviving and spath. I won’t go any where near him not just because I am in NC but because I do not trust her. She could go postal.



No, he is not gay as far as I know…hahaha!!

I TOTALLY agree with you…the accent definitely had a big impact on what happened to me. I tried to tell myself that was not part of it, but apparently it had to be. What is it with these Brits??



Yours wasn’t married was he?



One of the manipulative things he did was to storm out of a very fine restaurant after I merely asked if he wanted to go back to my place after dinner. Outside, he told me that “you offended my british reservedness…”

Keep in mind this is come from a mid-30s gay man. Yet I figured that maybe he really was reserved and became embarrassed that I gave the appearence of “moving too fast.”

Online, in one of his many profiles, I learned his hobbies are “boys, beer and fooling around.”

In fact, his online trail presents strong evidence of his sociopathy, given these profile portray somebody almost 180 degrees opposite from the person I dated…

Mine was not married, although per my post above I saw a tweet which *may* indicate a civil ceremony to another man, or it could be just a joke…



Wow, he sounds confusing as they all are!! Boys, beer and fooling around…that doesn’t sound very reserved. Just another manipulative ploy to make you believe he was “shy.”


It looks to me like the maid really did “WORK” for Arnold. And the kid was like a perk.
While the entire world feels horrible for Maria, and they should, I feel very sick for that boy. Ok he probably has wanted for nothing, he got to see his dad all the time too. He also got to see his own half siblings . Did he know his dad was Arnold? Did he know those kids were his half sibs? Did he get to live with them knowing this or not knowing this? Why did they move out? Because he was told the truth and it devastated him when they did? To realize who he was and that he was living there as ” THE MAID’s Son” all that time? Did her husband know it was Arnold’s kid all along or was this news to him too?

I just can’t help but feel for that boy, and his half sibs. They had to have played with him.
Now what do they all do? How do they all feel?
Were there times his half sibs snubbed him? How do they feel now?
Arny was going to take care of his children, and he kept them all together under one roof, and he wanted that boy near him.
What ended that?
How tragic. Its a real life, modern day tragedy.


The philandering in the culture of Latin America can find its root cause in the days of slavery and colonisation. Although the slaves were often allowed to marry, the men were sent to different plantations at some point in time, far away from the wife. The slave men would then eventually have a mistress at their new home, but still be married, and so on. This created a cultural philandering combined with wanderlust, but where the married woman who is the mother of a man’s children still has an above rank status.

It’s not that I do not disagree that poverty makes people seek for desperate measures. We just need to look at the accidents that happen at sea all over the world with unseaworthy boats filled with economical refugees hoping to make it Babylon (the refugee nick for Europe) or North America.

Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua are the most torn countries of Central America and most impoverished, through the civil wars that raged until the 90s last century, as well as corrupted through fraudulous international loans where the lent money never arrived at its destination (in the case of Honduras, most of the loan that makes them so poor stuck to the hands of the Brittish, and the railways never got built). But each of them has a different history and so have their own uniqueness.

Guatemala has a high percentage of indigineas, and most of the death squadrons for half of the 20th century targeted them. When peace became official, the death squadrons who used to kill people still had their weapons but no official targets anymore. They are the ones who turned to terrorizing communities for criminal reasons. And they are ruthless: many robberies end with killing other locals over little of a few hundred dollars from the cash register. Justice is so corrupt that civilian communities have turned to lynching a perpatrator, not only to protect their own lives and communities, but also to protect their livelihoods – the tourists.

Nicaragua is like Mexico predominantly mestizo (mixed), and Garifuna (Cuban or Jamaican slaves that fled and arrived at the Central American carribean coast and settled there), much like Honduras. Both the revolution and the contra-revolution demolished and bankrupted most if not all societies’ governing structures: justice, police, politics. Although they still have a good network of high school education and universal health care (that is good and reliable… plenty of people from the US go for their dental work to Nicaragua). A particular social problem there are teen pregnancies. Abortion is illegal, and frowned upon because of Catholicism. Add the fact that unemployment rate is very high. And you get a situation where motherhood gains a cultural status to be sought after. As a result there are of a lot teen and adolescent women (16-20) who wish to become a mother as fast as possible. And of course most of the fathers of a similar age are unprepared to commit to this. The fathers are then generally rejected as worthless, while the young mothers get a victim status. The young single mother living with her parents is a common sight, even in middle class environments. And often if you know one to be pregnant, most of her friends and sisters and cousins wil either also be pregnant or be pregnant soon. While in a general way it takes two to tango, and the fathers should own up to their responsibilities, it is likewise very unrealistic to expect teens (male and female) to form responsible and life lasting bonds. I know that many women in other Central America tend to be young when having their first child, especially the indigineas women, but I have never seen it in such a disproportianate way as in Nicaragua.

And yes, a foreign woman or man, often means a possible ticket out of the hopeless situations in that country as well as earns them a status of succes. But most couples I know are together because of each other, not pure golddigging. Nicaraguans tend to have a huge pride about their country (just mention the border river with Costa Rica to them and it becomes evident), and while some emigrate through a relationship with a foreigner, many also prefer to stay and have their international partner come and live there.

During my relationship with my ex P I grew to dislike Nicaragua, because of the “us versus them” situation and in particular the town he’s from. Since the break-up the fog has started to life slowly, and I can see how much of the evil and unsafety came from him and his ties to the criminal layer in society. As a consequence I can see again that most people there are decent people who wish to warn tourists from trusting the wrong people and work hard to make the best of things, in the hope of leading both a happy and more secure life.

Ox Drover


You are right that the boy is one to feel sorry for…I don’t think he knew who his father was until maybe recently, and I don’t think the housekeeper lived in the family home, but with her “husband” and her children. She was married at the time the boy with Arny was conceived, and when she filled out his birth certificate she put down her husband’s name, but when they divorced she testified they had NO CHILDREN born of the marriage…

Supposedly Arnold didn’t know the kid was his until he was a toddler. But who knows about that?

I feel for all children born in a situation where they are not sure who their parents are, or who grow up with half sibs that don’t claim them, or know about them. It is sad for the boy. To also know that his mother is on the news as the “other woman” and labeled gold digger etc. Even though his photo is blurred out, his neighbors and friends probably know by now. He’s at an age where this could be really problematic emotionally as well. I do feel for the kid for sure.

The fact that there MAY also be other women and/or other children as well I imagine makes Maria feel like such a public fool. So, I feel for her as well. I imagine at some point she felt like Arny loved her and respected her, but now she may feel like she has been played like an out of tune fiddle.


It’s unfortunate that people like to throw in irrelevant facts on something so clear cut as this.
The Ahnuld, Maria, Maid triangulation has been seen about a zillion times here on LF. And we have all agreed each time that the cause is a PD called spath.
Even as we look at the details, they remind us again of spath behavior. The maid envied Maria, borrowed jewelry and clothes, pretended to be her friend while stabbing her in the back. All is classic spath.

But for some bizarre reason, people want to blame Maria, because she “must have known”. BULL SHIT!!

I should have known too! my spath came home at 5AM when he came home at all for years. He came home reaking of sex. He got hundreds of thousands from millionaires. His friend died and left him a helicopter. His window was broken in his car from the inside, as if someone was trying to escape. His story was that he gave a girl a ride and she started attacking him – and I believed him. Call ME stupid before you call Maria Shriver stupid, please. Because I needed to believe that someone that I loved so much was a good man, and I believed it with all my heart. He could do no wrong.

Second thing that offends me is people mentioning her immigrant or impoverished status. WHO THE HELL CARES?

This is a red herring meant to distract from the fact that she behaved like a spath and spaths come from all countries and all walks of life. Rich and poor. male and female.

I feel like that is the problem with the sheeple, they are so easily distracted and next thing you know, you’ll be blaming immigration for break up of marriage in this country!!
Give me a break!

Get your heads out of the sand, because the spaths are laughing at you when you start to point to irrelevant details like that. It creates animosity between genders, races, and classes, the drama continues while the spath slithers away scot free into the brush.



If you read my post CAREFULLY you will see that I am NOT blaming immigrants. Go back and read it before you blow your stack. BTW I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I get a real healing from LF and NO ONE is scaring me off OK?


how is her immigrant status relevant to you?
And why did you not mention Arnold’s immigrant status as well?

I’m not trying to scare you off, or anything like that. You are a poster that I get a lot of inspiration from. But this is something that just makes me crazy: the distraction from blaming the spath. It is not about which country they are from. Just because both arnold and hitler were austrians, doesn’t mean all austrians are bad, oh wait… there was that guy who kept his daughter in the basement for decades and had several children by her…he was austrian.

It’s not about her poverty either. There is a correlation, but it’s because spaths cause poverty that so many spaths come from poverty.

I know you qualified all your statements, but I just think that by bringing these issues up, it enables spaths to excuse themselves, blame others and slither away.

Don’t be mad at me AR, I’m not mad at you and I don’t mind disagreeing with you since we agree so often on other things. But if I can get you to see my point, then I’m that much happier. 🙂


I didn’t read most of the earlier posts, but I think spathologic type behaviors can most definitely be born from economic conditions. There is probably an inordinate number of young prostitutes in Costa Rica, and their families approve of them hooking up with old rich white dudes and pirating as much money as they can from these guys. Are they all spaths? It’s a choice many poor people make. I myself was a stripper for two years. It was the only way I knew to get out of a bad relationship and gain my financial independence. In my job, I lied, deceived my clients – I didn’t even use my real name or age – and had many married clients who were hiring me behind their wives’ backs. Does that make me a spath? Are all the young prostitutes in Costa Rica spaths? Are the lecherous old white dudes spaths?

I think it’s impossible to judge behaviors like this unless you’ve been in their shoes. That is not to say you have to accept those behaviors into your life. Being a politician comes with a very high responsibility to fight the constant temptations that normal ordinary people don’t face. They also develop a huge sense of entitlement. I don’t think all politicians who cheat necessarily start out as spaths. I think they just allow power to corrupt them. This happens to ordinary people who are not spaths. There are many phenomena that cause people to behave badly, and some are economic and cultural. Hitler hypnotized most of his countrymen to believe in him. I don’t think these people were necessarily all born with the spath gene. I think there was a psychological phenomenon going on – the same one that Milgrim’s experiment addressed regarding propensity for normally compassionate people to inflict pain on others when given an order by an authority figure.

I know there are many spaths out there, and they reak havoc in all walks of life. But I don’t think labelling every high profile person who cheats as a spath really helps the situation. I think a more useful question to ask is “Do I want a person who lies in government? Can they be trusted with our money and our policies? If they lie in one area, will they lie in another?”


at the risk of pissing off ANOTHER person that I like and care about, I disagree that we are unable to judge a spath.
It’s not obvious from one transgression, since none of us is perfect. But someone who can carry on for so long with a lie that’s so huge and audacious, that’s a spath.

Sometimes, Star, it’s like you will describe all the traits of a snake, long, skinny, slithery, has scales, lays eggs, sheds skin, has forked tongue and you still won’t commit to calling it a snake. LOL! I think the reason is cognitive dissonance, it happens to me too.

I think that because you FEEL tender emotions or you did feel them at one time for someone, that this automatically makes them NOT spath in your view. Star, if anything, that makes them MORE likely to BE spath. Spaths elicit ALOT of emotion from us. It’s their Modus Operandi and it’s the KEY to getting what they want. Our emotions are our most powerful motivators.

I read in a book, I think it was, “the myth of irrationality”, that there was a man who had a head injury. His mom came to see him at the hospital. The man refused to believe it WAS his mom. He was ADAMANT that this woman was a duplicate and an imposter of his mom. The reason, it turns out, is because his head injury damaged the part of his brain that processed emotions and he no longer felt any emotion upon seeing his mother. Based on that, he concluded that it wasn’t his mom at all. He wasn’t aware of how he came to this conclusion, it was later revealed. In the end, he understood because it was explained to him, but he STILL was not convinced that it was his mom.

Cog Dis is exactly that: when your emotions don’t line up with reality. But we use emotional feed back to tell us what is real.
Ironically, spaths are innately aware of all this. They know us better than we know ourselves. It’s because they have NO emotions that they can see how obviously our behavior is based on emotion.

That’s why I strip everything down to the key elements of spath. Did he or didn’t he do x or y? for how long? and the result was? and his reaction was?

My spath liked to disguise himself as a jerk. He wasn’t, he was a spath.


Sky, I never said that you cannot judge a spath. I just think that everyone who behaves badly in certain situations is not necessarily a spath. Telling one lie – even a huge one – even by Martha Stout’s standards – does not make someone a spath. You have to look for multiple lies and the pity play. Those are the telltale signs. People’s bad behaviors are bad behaviors, no matter what they are. It’s important to judge whether we want someone in our lives (or public office, etc.) on bad behaviors.

If you go looking to pin the spath label on everyone who behaves badly, you will end up with a whole world so full of spaths that you should live in constant fear of bumping into one of them. I think there’s a middle ground here.


And you didn’t piss me off. 🙂


“eb92044 says:

Wow, he sounds confusing as they all are!! Boys, beer and fooling around”that doesn’t sound very reserved. Just another manipulative ploy to make you believe he was “shy.””

I did not know of this until he told me he wanted to be friends. It was then by accident I came upon his online trail.

Thus, a clear example of this person’s manipulativeness.


or if you call everyone who MAKES A HABIT OF BEHAVING BADLY, as arnold did, a spath, then you don’t have to live in fear because you know that they can’t fool you.

My understanding is that he had multiple affairs and Maria found out about them but excused him. This one was just too much. It wasn’t one lie, it was a lie, every single day for 13 years. Furthermore, I hear that she had been unhappy for many years – verbal/emotional abuse? likely.

Last but not least, he could never have become governor without her credibilty. This cinched it for me. Spaths like to have a “respectable” wife and many OW’s. They ride the coat tails of the respectable woman, which gives them credibility while simultaneously despising her so much that they want to smear her behind her back. It’s so classic, like a greek myth.

Speaking of myths, did you know that the term for compulsive lying is mythomania? interesting.


Sky you are a very intelligent woman-go back and read my post and you will see clearly why Mildred’s immigration status triggered me ok?

I am backing off from this drama. Good night.

Ox Drover



I don’t know the whole story because I don’t watch TV. But from what I hear they were actually very happy together. She looked happy in all of her appearances and pictures, and so does he. I don’t know all the particulars. I have no idea how he could live a double life. Like I said, politicians and actors develop an inflated sense of entitlement from being corrupted by power. Neither you nor I know what that feels like. I do not think being a womanizer makes a man a spath. Many men are like that or at least wish they could be if they were good looking and powerful enough. I’m sure she knew he was a womanizer because I remember when the story came out about him trying to grope that woman. Spathology has a genetic component. If you think every man or woman who cheats or behaves badly is a sociopath, born with the spath genetic code, then – to me – that makes for a very paranoid view of society where the majority of people are evil. I don’t see the world like that. I think most people are good, but that everyone is misguided once in a while. And people in certain circumstances can become corrupt and make poor choices. And then some are blatantly evil.

I was a private stripper for two years. In that time I went into hundreds of private homes, offices, and hotel rooms. In all that time I only encountered one guy who was very manipulative and lying to the point where I believe he was a spath.

I also have dated about 40 men in my life (from casual to serious). Of all of those, only one was a spath – the one I came here over.

I think if you are on a mission to make everyone a spath, you will find the spathiness in everyone. I’m sure there are people here who think I’m one too.


Ox, a question before I retire for the night. What does this mean on a post?


just curious as I see it a lot on LF.



ar – it means that the poster has deleted their post using the edit feature – since we have to leave one ‘letter’ in the post it is the period that usually gets left.


Glad I didn’t piss you off. 🙂
Ok, lets forget womanizing because it seems to be tainted by the idea that men just really love sex and women and can’t resist temptation.

So lets say, he stabbed his best friend and business partner in the back. He told his friend that they could make lots of money and be happy, they drew up an agreement, as to who would do what etc… and they signed it. But Arnold continued to cheat on the agreement, over and over again, siphoning money from the partnership all the while pretending to be the partner’s best friend – the better to fool the partner, of course.

My spath did this to many of his business partners and I believe he even killed several of his “friends”.

It isn’t the dirty deed that makes a spath, since we all are tempted to cheat or get the better end of the deal. It’s WHO and HOW the spath chooses to cheat that defines the spath. The spath will get up close and personal, invading your emotions, in order to do his cheating. He isn’t the average con artist, conning strangers, instead he deals in the emotional realm and destroys those who would lay down their lives for him. That’s what defines a spath to me.

I’m sorry you were triggered. I think that Mildred, if her parents had raised her in the US, and she was wealthy, she would still be filled with envy. Her target would have been different, but her behavior the same.

My reason for being on LF is to learn about the behaviors and distill the common elements so that I can understand it better and protect myself from the spaths that ARE everywhere.



I hope you don’t mind Ox, but I am going to put my two cents in. I think it means the end! Get it…a “period” indicates the end of a sentence…like done…end…I’m out…


Ooops, guess I was wrong about the period thing…haha…sorry!


Nah, i love a good debate!


So, Sky, did Arnold do that? Stabbing his business partner in the back? From what I read, he was mainly a womanizer.

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