Relating to Maria Shriver

Sky, thanks for popping in and contributing to this lively debate! I think people are human, except for the 1%-4% who are not because they are spaths. Humans screw up. They hurt their loved ones. For me, when I observe someone behaving in this way, the question I ask myself is, would I want that person in my life? Would I trust him to be in a public office? Should we start scrutinizing politicians’ personal lives? Should we hold them to the highest moral standards in their personal lives? These are questions that affect us directly, and they are good questions to ask in a society where so much of this is going on. I don’t know if it’s useful to jump on the spath bandwagon every time we hear of a guy cheating. Unless it comes out that AS was gaslighting people and doing all the other things spaths do, then saying it was the OW’s fault, that he did nothing wrong, etc., denying responsibility, blaming Maria, etc. (you know, like a spath would do), I think we only know for sure he cheated and lied. So what are the implications of this? It’s a useful thing to know when someone is a spath. But all entitled, confused, or immature people are not spaths. By your definition, I’m certainly a spath, to say the least. I’m sure I’ve hurt a lot of people with dishonesty and infidelity in my younger days. Unless they are spaths, most people are multi-dimensional and complex. They can do very good things in some areas and very bad things in others. With all my years of Buddhist training, I have learned to observe and report what really is, and not seek convenient labels for everyone and everything. God only knows what labels people have for me.

Nolarn, what I said before that I deleted was something along the lines of you having nothing to be ashamed of because the spath did not love his wife, and you are not responsible for breaking up a marriage. There is nothing healthy or virtuous about being married to a spath. If the wife is angry at you, she has misplaced her anger, and she is in denial. You don’t need to take that on, on top of everything else you’re going through. If you were an OW and the guy is NOT a spath, I think you would need to accept responsibility for the pain you caused and make amends when possible. Then ask for forgiveness, forgive yourself, move on, and don’t ever do it again. You HAVE to forgive yourself even when some others don’t. Guilt is just a form of self-punishment. When you accept responsibility for your actions, you understand what happened, make amends, and move on. There is no reason to continue to feel guilty.

I think we can all agree (especially those of us who have made the mistake) that dating a married man is never a good thing. Not because we are shameful heathens. But because it always has bad consequences down the line – for ourselves and for others. I think we can learn this lesson, vow to never make this mistake again, and forgive ourselves.

I know how you feel, Nolarn. I would give my right arm to be in Costa Rica with Raymond sans his girlfriend. Life sucks sometimes, doesn’t it?

I could have gone to a movie tonight but decided to stay home and self-nurture. I took a long bath and have been meditating. It helps so much. So much blocked up energy moves around. I cry; I have insights: I am able to move on just the tiniest bit. As you may recall, Raymond’s memory carried me through some really hard times this year. I had imaginary conversations with him and imagined him to love me. I think he does love me in his own way, and that we are very close. I don’t feel as close to anyone else. But I think of this whole bond as an energetic field. I contribute to it every time I think about him. I am going to lift myself out of it and put my energy into things/people that I can actually have. It will happen because I am willing it to happen. I have spent literally years being hung up on unavailable men. I’m too old to go through it again.

It’s especially hard when it’s your neighbor. I still have that little drama with my neighbor playing out in the back of my head too. This is all a test of my strength, nolarn. I know I can’t have someone better if I keep focusing on these guys who are not available.

In Buddhism, they told us a story about the monkey with his hand in the cookie jar. When he grasped the cookie, he couldn’t pull his hand out of the jar with the cookie in it. The only way to pull his hand out was to let go of the cookie. But he wouldn’t do it. There he sat stuck forever, trying to get that cookie out of the jar. So there we are with our hands in the cookie jar, trying to get that cookie. We cannot have the cookie. We need to go find another cookie that isn’t in a jar, you know?