By | December 2, 2012 40 Comments

Religion, spirituality and sociopaths

Editor’s note: This article was written by the Lovefraud reader “Adelade.” It refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.

Religious and spiritual beliefs are of extreme importance to people. More than their beliefs of themselves, people adhere to religious and spiritual doctrines because they give them a strong sense of continuity, comfort, and meaning. Teachings and rituals often fill in the gaps of what we cannot provide to ourselves or process as a result of living, dying, and the random events in Life that cause us to question, “Why did this happen?”

The first thing that an invading culture or nation does is to take away or abolish the religious or spiritual systems of beliefs of the vanquished. Aside from taking away native languages, this is probably the most humiliating and defeating of all “punishments” delivered to the vanquished because the core beliefs that sustained that culture (tribal, or national) are not only removed, but completely invalidated. Because these core beliefs run so deep, the culture and individuals are stripped of identity, meaning, and value. After the native religious or spiritual beliefs have been dismantled, they are replaced with those of the conquerors. Either go with the program, or risk losing businesses, homes, and/or lives.

Forgiven of their sins

In my personal experiences, my spirituality had always been a factor in how I was easily targeted, and so completely manipulated. I was raised in the belief (religious, spiritual, and cultural) that every human being deserved compassion and understanding. The spiritual and religious doctrines held fast that everyone should be forgiven for their sins and/or crimes, and given the “benefit of the doubt,” as well as a “second chance.”

The perpetrators hear the words of forgiveness and acceptance, and usually exhibit a brief spurt of “regret” for “what happened,” but typically return to their previous damaging behaviors. In some religious systems, it is taught that a person is forever forgiven of their sins and crimes if they accept specific teachings to be true. What this generally translates to for sociopaths is that everything that they ever did, are presently doing, and will do in the future is magically absolved, and all they have to do is speak the words and literally act out scenes of “transformation” for this to be accomplished. In the World Of Sociopath, they are given the “green light” to continue their abuses with impunity because they have “already been forgiven,” according to doctrines.

Using doctrine against me

Organized religious or spiritual groups are the most fertile trolling ground for the disordered because of these facts. In my first marriage, the abusive ex-spath used our marriage vows as a weapon. If I disobeyed the abusive ex-spath, then I was disobeying God. Consequently, he insisted that God had given him the Divine Expectation to exercise “husbandly rights,” and that I was committing a sin if I didn’t give in to his demands, regardless of whether they were sexual, financial, or otherwise. In essence, I would burn in Hell if I disobeyed him.

The second ex-spath used my need for spiritual and religious grounding to his advantage as well. Unlike the abusive ex-spath, the second one painted himself as a devout follower of Jesus, and had experienced “true miracles” that he described, in detail, as evidence of his connection with God. He also played on the fact that he had attended a Bible college and had intended upon becoming a pastor. Of course, he never completed the required courses, but he could spout some religion and passages with incredible and convincing authority. He used my own ignorance of Books and Verses to his best advantage, and all the while asserted what a “humble” person he was and how money had “no importance” to him except as a method to “pay the bills.”

We are what we believe

Whether the entanglement is with a spouse, significant other, parent, sibling, coworker, or member of the church, temple, or program that we are involved in, it is vital to understand the link—and difference—between religious/spiritual beliefs and core self-beliefs.

Precisely how these two systems of beliefs are targeted, exploited, and dismantled by sociopaths is very simple: we are what we believe. If we believe that everyone deserves to be forgiven, then we forgive even when the person clearly doesn’t “deserve” it. If we believe that we are responsible for everyone else’s happiness before our own, then we will set aside all reasonable expectations of reasonable behaviors in lieu of “fixing” everyone else’s problems for them. If we believe that we were born sinners, then we are ashamed of having been conceived and born at all. If we believe there exists a heaven and a hell, then we will act accordingly to enter one and avoid the other, and do so by the requirements of another mortal human being. If we believe that expressions of sympathy and compassion are to be given to everyone, then we feel obligated to tolerate behaviors and choices that are often inappropriate and unacceptable. These are the things that religious and/or spiritual sociopaths intuitively recognize and exploit to their advantages.

Religion and power

When we read about religious or spiritual leaders engaging in the most heinous behaviors and crimes, we have no business even acting as if we’re surprised. Power corrupts, and there is nothing more powerful to human beings than their systems of beliefs. That’s not meant to translate that we shouldn’t feel shocked that someone would abuse their positions of power, but it is a fact that those who are in power didn’t get where they are by simple altruism, even with regard to religious/spiritual leadership. Every human being carries secrets, and no one can claim to be the example or epitome of what their higher power dictates as perfection.

Before anyone chooses to take offense at these observations, I want to clarify that I am not opposed to any individual wishing to adhere to their chosen religious or spiritual beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren’t espoused in hatred or intentional harm. What I hope for readers to take away from this is the importance of caution and self-validation. God, Great Creator, Yahweh, Jehovah, Buddha, Vishnu, or whomever we hold as our “higher power” has already gifted us with everything that we “need” to realize our own potential and value in this vast Universe. If something or someone causes us to feel uncomfortable, DE-valued, unworthy of love, obligated because of their own humanity, negative, or emotionally drained, then we need to step back, re-evaluate our systems of beliefs, and figure out whether our core beliefs are flawed, or the person that’s causing the discomfort is. Then we need to alter our beliefs, choices, and decisions accordingly.

Belief and abuse

I have witnessed countless scams, cons, and abuses perpetrated by “devout” individuals. They used their membership in their churches or temples as a cloak of respectability to continue abusing, exploiting, and ruining other human beings. “God says that you have to ______, or you’re going straight to Hell,” is a verbatim phrase that I’ve actually heard on several occasions from the abusive ex-spath, church members, and religious leaders.

Not one human being is the sole keeper of the direct cell number to speak with God about meeting these requirements. We must trust our gut instincts that we were gifted with, and protect our self-beliefs, first. Without strong boundaries and healthy “Self-isms,” even empathy, sympathy, understanding, and forgiveness is misguided and can result in serious self-damage.

Religious and/or spiritual sociopaths gather a host of minions, as well. Many of these participants themselves have sociopathic tendencies, and find their own sense of influence, power, and control as they enable and assist in the leaders’ machinations. Other minions are so personally damaged or unstable that any association with the leader provides them with false validation and acceptance they will even do murder if it gains the approval of the leader.

A brief and incomplete list of convicted contemporary religious and/or spiritual sociopaths include is available on Wikipedia.

Of all sociopaths, religious/spiritual predators not only destroy lives, but they destroy core beliefs in one’s Self. The religious and/or spiritual sociopath can not only dismantle a human being’s finances, sexual identity, and physical/emotional health, but they have the ability to end lives of innocent men, women, and children in the name of religion.

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This article is SO important and thank you for writing it. It should be posted on the front door of every church, saying ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! I grew up in a household that did not discuss religion. As I got older and left home, I had my own spirituality and beliefs and still do.

As an adult, the worst abuses on my life and core beliefs were dished out by fundamentalist christians. I will never step foot in a church again due to the abuses I have endured and after what happened to my daughter starting with her bio father who wears the “Jesus’ SON” shirt. His family who I had great respect for, I have none now. They are the most hypocritical excuse of human flesh I have ever met. For instance, comupters are evil ….until they find a need for them. Then they are fine because of this and that, forget all they said before. Tattoos are evil….until their children start inking themselves and it ‘s suddenly ok because of this and that. etc etc. I could go on and on.

I fear for the unsuspecting woman who runs into my daughters father. He is fishing on christian dating sites and has laughed aloud to me about what he gets away with carrying his bible and reciting scripture. I was naive and he got me. I got so twisted with his abuse of religion to me that I started to hate (a word never used in my home until him) any church. I look at religion with disdain. I want to honor my God on my own. My daughter is seriously confused after hearing sociopaths version of religion how God is going to make her sick and die if she doesn’t forgive him because the bible says so. He’s a scary man but cannot get over the “devilled eggs, devils food cake, etc”. Laughable when you are not a child or naive adult. Funny how anything he does is forgiven but he never forgives or allows anyone to forget anything they have done so he can shove your face in it as a sin. My child is illegitimate and conceived in sin so I MUST marry him for her souls sake.

I believe he got into my life through his false preaching. His pastor was from an Assembly of God church I went to with him and he had a psychology license. I found out later, he wasn’t even ordained! He collected tithings for years and wrote them off! He wasn’t a legitimate PHD, he lost his psychology license for the fraudulent letter he wrote in my child custody case on church letterhead (at his house church) signed as the senior pastor and psychologist with fraudulent credentials, vouching for the psychopath while in prison! In those hearings I was stunned finding out the Aof G actually sued him to get him out of their church. He had duplicated forged documents regarding my complaint. He used the AofG church as his own property on financial documents to move up from his $150k condo to a $750k house!

This “senior pastor” who was now vouching for the father said to me years prior, “he is only about 2% of a man and even with hard work he will never be more than 5%” of a man! This phony psychologist/phony senior pastor has authored 2 books, fictional religion, LOL, and created his own personality test! People have not been hired due to employers using this frauds self proclaimed personality testing. The first book went away due to the findings in the investigation of his letter by the state as a publisher can be held liable for falsified credentials on a book. Second book is self published. I cannot say loud enough to be careful of false religion.

A dead giveaway of my ex is he says “it doesn’t matter what you have done” which is in essence giving him permission to do what he pleases and all is forgiven as your article states. I beg to differ. It does matter what you have done in my relgious belief and you will be held accountable. I would much rather be held accountable here on earth.

“My life is a lifetime movie” shows a man who was part of the terrorists (I think it was) came to the US and picked a victim (single mom with kids) as his cover so he would not be suspected of his international crimes. Where did they study and find was the best place to find such a naive unsuspecting woman? CHURCH! They said it is where you are most vulnerable. Beware.



Your post makes me sad. Because of what happened to you, you will never, ever step into another church. It’s really tragic because all churches are not like that. I think I would be dead right now if it wasn’t for my church. It is so awesome and I get so much from it.

Having said that, I get it. It’s the same way I feel like I will never, ever date again…I feel ALL men are the same so you feel the way about churches the way I feel about men and it’s tragic for both of us because I can attest that all churches are not like that and I am sure that there are some good men out there, but I am not about to find out. It’s awful all the way around. 🙁

Adelade and Eralyn,
There’s no doubt that churches are the perfect mask for spaths. A church is like a “victim kit”. It comes complete with a 180-degree mask and a group of vulnerable, gullible and forgiving victims to plunder. Additionally, if the spath gets lucky, the church comes with a ring of predators already safely ensconced in the holy of holies, welcoming the spath with open arms. A church has everything a spath could want.
Edit: not all churches are that way, but they can all become that way without vigilance.

Spaths do have excellent masks and when they play the “good guy” role, it’s very very convincing. Looking back, I know that if I met my spath again for the first time, I would absolutely fall for his performance of being kind and compassionate. He plays it very well.

BUT Now there is a difference. I know the red flags. I know the roots of shame and envy and their tell tale signs. These flags and signs were ALWAYS juxtaposed against his good guy performance, but I ignored them because 1) I didn’t know what they meant 2) we all have flaws, right? and 3) He’s a good person deep down, I can tell by his actions. right? WRONG!

As good as the act may be, when you see THE OPPOSITE tell tale signs, you know that the rest is AN ACT. What were these signs? Well, there was the envy. He would literally take my food off my plate or out of my hand and eat it. His gift giving was usually to give me something HE wanted and only make a down payment so I’d have to pay the rest.

A different spath that I knew, was unable to say anything complementary about my parents’ new house because he was envious. Another spath, got angry whenever I disagreed with him. Another one, pointed out that I had said, “Yes but…” To him that was a negation, a sign of being shamed.
Edit: another one kept saying, “It’s not YOUR beach”, when I welcomed him to our community beach. He couldn’t stand the thought of my having my own beach so he made sure to reiterate that it wasn’t MINE.

The list goes on. My point is that if we are awake and aware we can SEE what they are. They may perform well but they can’t hide all of the shame and envy. It gets sent out in little projectile missiles, here and there. Those are the clues that we can’t ignore.

Lastly, I’ve seen many people get attacked by spaths and STILL say, “well, it’s probably not a spath, it’s probably just someone who is hurting or confused.” WHY? Why deny what we are seeing so blatantly? Because we don’t want to believe that there are so many of them out there. But there are.

Revise your world view. The world is filled with as much evil as you see. Pretending it’s not there isn’t going to make it go away. Shining a light on it, will.

Ox Drover



You are so right in the way that our own spiritual aspects are used against us by the psychopaths and abusers, scammers of all kinds.

I believe that humans have a “spiritual aspect” whether the person believes in a “god or higher power” is beside the point, the SPIRITUAL aspect is built within us irrespective of our religious beliefs, which I think are developed to answer to this spiritual aspect of humanity.

In the books I have been reading lately, “1491” and “1493” and “Guns, Germs and Steel, the fates of Human Societies” the very aspect of conquest that you talk about with the destruction of religion, culture, language is discussed at length.

You can look at the Middle East right now and see what is going on there is a culture clash more than anything. People using their “direct cell number to God” to dictate how everyone else lives. “Believe and live my way or die, infidel!”

In the Middle ages when the Catholic church held sway over most of Europe the inquisition dictated that you must believe this way or die….I am sure that I must have had some ancestors who lit the fires of the condemned as well as had a few ancestors who burned in those fires. It is the way humanity has been since we worshiped carved rocks in caves.

I too was brought up that God would forgive everything…funny thing it was the sins against me that he seemed to forgive the most readily, but the sins I committed myself were held against me forever. (at least by by egg donor) My desire to “obey God” was used to make me do the will of the egg donor, with the threat that if I didn’t God would send me to hell to burn forever.

By the time I was 5-6-7 I was terrified of God and afraid that I might die with just ONE unforgiven sin which would send me to hell forever. I remember actually wondering if I saw I was going to die if I would be quick enough to say “father forgive me” before I croaked and thus not go to hell. What a horrible thing for a small child to be indoctrinated with.

While many people are turned away from even believing a higher power by such early indoctrinations I realized that I didn’t need egg donor’s interpretation of the Bible to tell me what it said and I started reading it with “new eyes” and it was amazing the wonderful things I found out. Like for example, you can “forgive” someone (get the bitterness out of your own heart) but NOT trust them and NOT reestablish a relationship with them. (Read the story of Joseph of the coat of many colors for this concept) and I could go on…and on…there are so many wonderful precepts to live by in the Bible, so many teachings that show us we do not have to be door mats in order to please God or to be “good” people.

Thanks for this WONDERFUL article, Adelade! God bless.


Thank you Adelade for your post. My biggest breakthrough in healing from religious abuse was making the decision to see myself through God’s eyes and not through anyone else’s eyes. I totally bought into my mother’s perspective on me and everything. It was when I “made the decision to recover” from sociopathy that I was able to come to terms with the lies and change my direction. I could tell so many stories about their lies – it goes on and on.

Soooo true – when the spath commits outrageous crimes – all should be forgiven. When we forget the fork for the dinner plate – we are punished for weeks. Spath says “you have to forgive me.” I say “well isn’t that convenient for you.” (Sarcasm) I also ask myself now – who is the $$, attention, time for ?? Is it “for God” or is it for you, spath ?? And just how did what the spath wants really become what God wants ?? Hmmmm.

Whatever your system of beliefs out there – a Bible scene that helps me is Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple – they were deliberately cheating the people. He heavily criticized the hypocritical leadership to their faces.

Abuse is abuse is abuse. No matter the sparkly words or fancy clothes. I also find it helpful to remember the conditions for true forgiveness – remorse, apology, changed ways. And I still remember the disorientation I felt when I made the decision to stop seeing myself through spath’s eyes – I was that used to being abused.

Thank you again Adelade and Best Wishes

Hi, Thank you for this article, it touches upon a struggle I have right now. I am dating and in love with a wonderful woman right now and we are doing great but my struggle is her devotion to a guru, Sogyal Rinpoche, who seems likely to be a sociopath or at least exhibit sociopathic qualities. More than 20 women have come out saying this guy raped them and some say beat. One woman brought him to court and the guru settled out of court for 11 million dollars (he beat her badly and raped her) anyways I found this all out via just doing a search on google and finding everything from newspaper reports to victims talking on forums etc. The man is very powerful and wealthy and continues his abuse, the stories are horrible. Two years ago a Canadian company made a documentary about him which you can find online now.

I have collected some of the articles about him and others that abuse their power and posted in my forum called EXPOSE: INJUSTICE at and welcome others post post stories about political or religious leaders that abuse.

It is horrible as people look up to these leaders for hope and teachings and are betrayed. My girlfriend has seen the documentary and read the news articles but is still in his organization and still gives him money.

Oh, did I mention that the guru tells his female followers that if they have sex with him they will be blessed and gain enlightenment quicker?

This whole topic is a tricky one as the abuse is usually hidden and those duped are struggling with it all.

Thanks again for this article and sharing. I think that thanks to the internet victims have a bit of power by posting and sharing their experiences.


“It is ugly for young and idealistic persons to be treated as expendables, whether in service to a guru’s lust or to the ambitions of statesmen.” — Winston Churchill


Stevyn, I’d be running in the other direction of the girlfriend, quite frankly. One of the most valuable lessons that I”ve learned from my spath experiences is that I do not have the power to “save” anyone except myself.

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: The reason I’d be running like my behind was on fire would be for the reasons in the article. Above all other systems of beliefs, religious/spiritual beliefs that are ingrained are of more “value” than the beliefs that we hold of our own selves.

Ox Drover


I’m afraid I agree with Truthspeak…this kind of “spiritual difference” between partners is something that ultimately will destroy the relationship. It is difficult to “give up” on a person you truly love, but at the same time, if she is unwilling to accept a preponderance of evidence that this man is EVIL (sort of like te followers of Jeffs that “Mormon” who is in prison for marrying the 70 under age women, and his followers are STILL loyal to him and following his crazier and crazier directions sent out from prison.

Good luck.


Thank you so much for an excellent article, Adelade! I have experienced abuse in a church of a mainstream religion, and it was exceptionally awful, because it cut straight to my most vulnerable and best self. As you have said, that is why it is so totally devastating, and it helped to set me up as a victim of a sociopath. Though it was in an academic setting, it was nevertheless life-crushing, and I am still recovering. Lovefraud’s the comments and articles have been instrumental in this, so thanks to Donna and all of you!

Don’t remember where I heard it, but for me, this saying gets straight to the point:

“Avoid anybody or any group who uses religion or spirituality as a means to gain access to your brain, your pocketbook, or your panties.”


My ex used to demand that I forgive him and never mention it again; “it” referring to any manner of abuse, or manipulation, or deceit, or threat.

And yes, I was defrauded into trusting him and eventually marrying him by his steadfast claims and impressive portrayal of a deeply moral, devoutly Christian, man of integrity. He sure could “talk the talk.” But it was all an act. I still can’t believe I fell for it.


I may have typed this, long ago, but I was a member (bona fide member) of a neighborhood church that I actually enjoyed being involved with. My sons went to the Sunday morning classes, we were involved in activities, and I actually got involved in organizing the summer programs

After 2 years of being involved with this church, I received a call from the pastor and he was horribly upset. Apparently, one of the members had committed suicide after it was discovered that he had molested a couple of the children in the congregation, AND that this man had a previous criminal history of molesting children. The district and regional PoohBahs had prior knowledge of this, and they did not even inform the pastor, and he was livid.

What was so strange about this was that this man’s behavior was always questionable to me. He once began crying when we were rehearsing this elaborate Holiday service, and it began when he was to give an oration of how this infant had been born into the world to forgive the sins of the world. I always, ALWAYS felt very uncomfortable around this man, and nobody else in the congregation ever (to my knowledge) expressed any discomfort or concern about his behaviors.

Brightest blessings


There is a movie that starred a VERY young Shelley Winters and a VERY young Robert Mitchum titled, “Night Of The Hunter” that speaks very, very clearly about religious/spiritual predators.

I’ve found that, for myself, there are some obvious “red flags” that can be clearly defined, but that the more vociferous of leaders demand observation. People that pontificate and make noise about what any higher power will, and will not, accept causes me to step back and watch.

I highly recommend this classic movie! Add this one to the Netflix queue!



GREAT article! This is very true, and reflects my personal experiences.


I wish you well. It sounds like a lot of indoctrination for you to fight so hard against, to be with your girlfriend. And, I hope you understand when I say that no one is worth the entanglement.

If your girlfriend can know this about this person, and still support him…I deeply question her connection to reality. All spaths groom ‘minions’, some of them very ‘lovely’ people, but generally deluded on some level and stuck in some part of their formation toward adulthood.

By turns I question your relationship and desire to save her. Why would you want to be with someone who puts themself in harms-way, and supports an abusive and false spiritualist? Sounds like someone, between the two of you, needs to wake up.

Please take care of YOURSELF, and know you have likely already done what is ‘reasonable’ to assist your girlfriend. Beyond what is reasonable, you begin to enter into your own un-balanced care-taking tendencies.



The paths will definitely go for those not well armed with a good knowledge of God’s Word. The purely spiritual types who go by their own rules and free spirits will be vulnerable and manipulated.

The only way to protect yourself from these paths is to know the Word of God and have a relationship with Jesus Christ. If you have a good foundation in Christianity there’s virtually no way you can fall victim to these demonic entities. God will protect and answer your prayers. God is the only real and effective authority over these paths, through Jesus Christ and that’s a fact.

Convict these spirits through God’s Word and use the name of Jesus Christ condemning them. Pray to God over what was done to you and accept the Holy Spirit into your heart to guide you. God’s requirement is that we forgive the paths and what they have done that we hold no malice or ill will towards these people.


I think these are some of the most dangerous of all. My spath has children who are devout Christians who attend church faithfully, even one works for a Christian radio station. He has membership with a church and when he first approached me, came with his knowledge of scripture as we belong to the same denomination. Everything I said I would never do, he convinced me of doing to my ruin. I’m 33 weeks preggo with his baby and in serious debt as he is probably looking for new young victims to fuel his secret drug habit.

Because of him, I cannot return to my church for the shame of being pregnant outside of marraige. I still believe and trust in the God who had given me those earlier victories in my life, I just can’t believe how much of a fool he made me. I pay for the wedding stuff at city hall and he steals the money for who knows what.

To want to destroy a young life just for the hell of it, is something I cannot ever understand. I had so much promise and things going on, I was focused, and as a Christian I believe satan used him to come in and sweep all that away. I have to put school on hold, look for a new job to escape the shame and humilation from people who knew him as a con and laugh at my victimization. I have to move back with my adult parents who are struggling and raise a baby alone. If I reach out to get a dna test from him so the baby will get benefits, I will have more turmoil added to my life so I’d rather struggle to earn what is rightfully my son’s for his next 18 years.




If he is really a psychopath, no amount of money is worth having him in your life or in your son’s life!!! If I could do it over he would have never known my child was his. He has made our lives miserable for 45 years now. Benefits are not worth the pain of being tied to a psychopath and he will make you pay for it.


Wok_Chang, Betsybugs is 100% spot-on. A ppath parent does not, cannot, and will not ever recognize that a child is an innocent human being. Children are only devices and tools to be used to inflict as much control and damage possible to the REAL source targets.

And, the cloak of religion or spirituality is a powerful, powerful illusion, especially for children. A child’s beliefs about the world and their places in the Universe are formed VERY early and can be irrevocable if their beliefs are deeply ingrained – as often happens with spath/ppath parents. I’m a pretty good example of how fautly beliefs can preclude even my own understanding of myself and what I should, and should not, tolerate.

These predators are, indeed, the most prolific of all spaths and the most successful, IMHO.

Silentstorm, I’m not required to forgive anyone that isn’t contrite and remorseful for the crimes and sins that they have committed. “Forgiveness” is an option that benefits me, alone. You are allowed to maintain your beliefs, and I am allowed to maintain my beliefs. If I believe that my higher power is a ball of navel lint that speaks of light, love, and peace, it’s acceptable as long as those beliefs don’t harm or predate others. Your comments and requirements are offensive to me, on every level, and they violate the LoveFraud statement on “Spiritual Recovery.”

Hopefully, you’ll read that statement and accept the fact that your beliefs may work for you, but that you do not have the right or invitation to expect anyone else to adhere to them.

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: Wok_Chang, it is imperative to understand that ANY system of beliefs is fair game for spaths to exploit. Christian, Hindu, Native American, or anything else – they all provide a cloak of respectability that spaths wear with impunity.

Ox Drover

Wok_chang, I agree about the DNA test….if you get it and the courts award you any money it will be HELL TO COLLECT and he will demand visitation to your son….and you sure do NOT want that.

As far as the “shame” of having a child out of wed lock….look at the story about Jesus and the woman who was going to be STONED for adultery….what did HE say to her? Every one of those men who were prepared to throw stones at this woman Jesus said “he who is without sin cast the first stone” and of course these men were NOT without sin so one by one they slunk away leaving only Jesus and the woman and he asked her “where are those who accuse you?” and then he told her “go and sin no more.”

If HE didn’t condemn her, then why are you continuing to CONDEMN yourself? Forgiveness goes not only from God to us but from US TO OURSELVES. We must ask God for forgiveness but we must also GRANT OURSELVES FORGIVENESS.

Your child will grow up without a “legal” father, but there will come a time when you will find a GOOD MAN who can then adopt that child without interference from the psychopathic DNA donor So that is a blessing from God right there.

The Bible says “all things work together for good to those that love the lord.” It does not say “some things” it says ALL THINGS so while you may not see it NOW, BELIEVE and just take care of yourself and your baby, and do what you have to do to accomplish that. Don’t try to HIDE in shame, find a congregation that will accept you and your child in Christian LOVE and if a group will NOT then you don’t need to be there at all. God bless.



I used to think most people had some good in them(with the exception of people like Ted Bundy, Hitler, Jim Jones, etc.). Now after having been exposed to a spath I now know there are quite a few more people than I could have imagined who are truly pure evil and have NO good in them. NADA. Those people do not deserve to be forgiven. EVER and yes I wish every horrible thing imaginable on my former sociopath. Whoever says they should all be shipped to an island and have it out among themselves is 100% right. Instead of thinking when I meet somebody, “Gee I’d like to get to know this person” now there is a little voice in my head who says, “Be careful and check them out for red flags first”. Man or woman. I hate having to be this way now but, that is what my experience with a spath has done for me and I truely hate him for that. Also, I don’t think being a christian and really knowing Gods Word is going to protect a person from a predator. Being informed is what will help protect you. The woman who was targeted and engaged to my spath before me was a christian and very active in her church. So was/is he.

Ox Drover


Many people hide behind a mantle of “Christianity” or are “wolves in sheep’s clothing” pretending to be a sheep so they can get into the fold undetected and be able to prey on the sheep.

Jesus told us that would be the case, and it is so. Actually in ANY organization you want to name….even in AA there are “dry drunks” (Psychopaths) who become big shots in AA and quit drinking but they are still predators and prey on other members of AA….or whatever group you want to name.

Predators cover themselves with some form of camo so that they can get closer to the prey, whether it is a wolf, a lion, a tiger, or a psychopath. Since Psychopaths LOOK LIKE US we have to be able to watch for the RED FLAGS of their behavior and in order to do that, we have to get close enough to READ THE SIGN….and yes, “be careful and check them out for red flags first” IS GOOD SENSE. It might be nice if we lived in an IDEAL WORLD WHERE THIS WAS NOT NECESSARY but we don’t. SO we must live in the REAL WORLD where we have to check folks out.


OxD, yeah…..there’s “what should be,” and then there’s “what is,” and neither cross paths very often.

In even loosely organized groups, there are predators. Some are blatant, and others are subtle. Your suggestion from weeks ago has really stuck with me: watch, listen, observe an individual in their “natural” environment. That means to watch them OUTSIDE of the organization, as well. It’s a good practice, and I appreciate the suggestion as it applies to every walk of life and in every situation.

Brightest blessings


Wok_Chang, OxD is 100% spot-on, and finding a congregation where you aren’t compelled to “confess” to be accepted is primary. You aren’t OBLIGATED to explain yourself, your choices, your actions, or your experiences to ANYONE, and that includes any congregation, religious leader, or fellow member. It’s NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, and the less you provide, the better your boundaries will be.

Brightest blessings

Allergic to Spandex

My spath has had at least two religions of convenience in his lifetime. We HAD to be married by a Methodist pastor because he had only recently had himself baptized (?) as an adult, at 27. He claimed to be very serious about this, until I learned from his mother that he had only done it to please his elderly grandmother. Later in life, and years after I took precepts as a Buddhist (think confirmation, more or less), he decided that not only was HE a Buddhist, but that he was a better one than I was, even though he knew none of the basics of the religion. Of course he only said that to hurt me… but my friend in the city where he lives now (who is also an ex-friend and former target of this spath) says he’s still claiming to be a Buddhist because out on the West Coast, that really excites the women for some reason.


allergic to spandex – love your name ~! I am allergic to any organized religion…



I recommend keeping the spath daddy out of your child’s life. You’ve had a heavy-duty lesson, learning at a young age (which can be a plus for your own sake) about spaths (evil people). Use the knowledge of spaths for your good (and your unborn child’s good). God is on your side. Some of us have had hard knocks in life, having concrete, hands-on experiences, learning about these creatures the HARD WAY. Don’t let our lessons be wasted. Your life is precious.


My spirituality was used against me in the way of having compassion, tolerance, love, non-judgement, and forgiveness for all.

After my near death experiences with psychopaths my beliefs have certainly changed. I don’t have compassion, tolerance, love, non-judgement and forgiveness for all anymore. These beliefs kept me involved with these bad men far longer because of these beliefs being drilled into me.

Forgiving these types just keeps the cycle of abuse going and going.

The God of my understanding has not changed, this time around, I apply all of these beliefs to me. I think long and hard now who I call “friend”.

Ox Drover

dear thedoorisclosed,

As far as “forgiveness” I consider that GETTING THE BITTERNESS AGAINST THEM OUT OF MY HEART, not for them, but for ME. I also do not believe any longer that “forgiveness” means RESTORING TRUST because I know I can NOT trust these people….

I don’t want to remain bitter because bitterness is like a cancer in my own soul….but I don’t think my God wants me to be stupid either and put myself in te path of people I know will hurt me.

Jesus said “by their fruits (behaviors) you shall know them” and when a psychopath shows they are EVIL I BELIEVE THEM now.

So I work hard at keeping the bitterness down, but I do NOT trust them ever again. People must EARN my trust now, and once it is destroyed, it is VERY hard or impossible to restore, no matter WHO they are….or if we share DNA or not.


Yeah, we forgive for us, not for them. You can forgive them…just don’t be around them. They don’t even have to know you forgave them. Forgiving doesn’t mean you have to be with someone or stay friends with them…not at all. That’s not what it’s all about. Now granted, of course you can forgive someone and still have them in your life if that is what YOU want. But you can actually still have quite a bit of disdain for someone and have forgiven them.


You don’t sound real convincing on that..!



Louise, “disdain” is putting it mildly!

I’m with OxD – forgiveness is strictly for me and to purge the bitterness. I don’t forgive the exspath for what he chose to do because he did it deliberately and with intent to defraud. And, he’s not demonstrated one scintilla of remorse. Nobody who could so thorougly attempt to destroy a person’s life with such planning and deliberation DESERVES to be forgiven. Rather, I’m trying to forgive myself for having trusted such a predator, in the first place.

Brightest blessings


That was the most difficult thing for me, forgiving myself for being so stoopid. It seem’s everybody around me knew I was getting burned but me, well i knew I was on fire I just didnt know I was in hell..
Yes, the humiliation and shame of the truth was a bitter pill to swallow. But I aint perfect, never will be..
Forgive him? Yes just the same as I would forgive a predator for doing what they do, they prey on the weak or injured, so i stay out of they way and carry a big stick.

kim frederick

Anybody seen the new Geiko commercial?
I like to think of us as those antilope wearing night vision goggles, and making comments, back and forth about how Harry, (the lion) is back again, and it’s embarassing, and that he’s better than this. “Ever think of going Vegan, Harry?” We antilope laugh amongst ourselves. 🙂



Really? I’m totally convinced. I mean every word. We do forgive for US, not for them. And yes, I forgave the woman who was in the triangle with me even though I do still have disdain for her; same for spath. Forgiving doesn’t mean that the feelings we have necessarily goes away.



That’s what I said…forgiveness is for US, not for them.

lol! thanks for the laugh.

kim frederick

Ok. I got the lion’s name wrong. It’s Carl…or, maybe Karl.
Thanks for posting the link, Skylar.

It’s pretty accurate though. Notice that the antelope are embarrassed FOR the lion. They say, “It’s embarrassing.”

Hi, thanks to all that responded to my situation. I understand and feel like I should run away also but my GF is not a sociopath, just a weak person that was sucked into something when her life was really down. I am hoping that she will have strength and be able to escape it. I am reading lots about how to help someone who is in a cult etc. She is getting better, she has removed the picture of the guru from her wall, laptop and cell phone, that is a start. One person mentioned that I should look at myself for getting into such a relationship… this is my new relationship after having been with a sociopath for 2 years… That is a good question, I crave love and sharing so why would I do this again? My new GF is warm and a great person and she does love me but I am not a priority to her. Her guru, his people and her spirituality all trump me and even her daughter who she rarely contacts. I am low on the totem pole for attention so I feel lonely and it reminds me of being with my ex-sociopath. So I should explore why I am in such a relationship again. ugh.

I also googled topics about sex with gurus… It makes me sick to think she really believes that having sex with her guru is a fast track to heaven (enlightenment).. one interesting quote i found, para-phrased by me, “zen buddhists frown on sex as it may lead a person to attachments with a lover..” basically saying beware of sex as you might fall in love and thats not cool. This thinking really upsets me and makes me wonder if Buddhism could be telling us to give up attachments to people… I respect Buddhism but I think this bit of it promotes a sociopathic way of thinking. It is great to not be attached to material items, but to avoid relationships with a lover, daughter etc seems way wrong to me. Of course I am a rookie and don’t understand it all. I agree with the comment above about her spath turning Buddhist, it is very trendy right now and hip in America. I think it can be super positive but the guru part can lead to corruption and easy prey for sociopaths. I bet he is finding tons of new victims!! 🙁

On the topic I found this:

“…f you’ve ever wondered why so many gurus sound alike and seem to
have attended the same training camp, ‘Prophetic Charisma’ is a must-
read. Oakes interviewed twenty charismatic leaders and many of their
followers, and was once a member of a group led by such a leader.

What Oakes learned was that none of these charismatics was capable
of ordinary, intimate relationships with peers. They all had some
form of narcissistic personality disorder, and compensated for lack
of intimacy and lack of empathy by becoming avid students of social
manipulation and communication arts.

Another feature Oakes observed was that the leaders often learned to
have ‘canned’ responses to any situation, and knew how to ruthlessly
exploit the slightest sign of self doubt or hesitation in an

Ox Drover


Many times people with emotional problems and self esteem will become invilved with others who are “unavailable”—either people who are married, psychopaths, or unwilling to commit, or in your case a woman who puts her guru above you…..

So not what does this say about her, but what does this say about you? Why are YOU willing, even apparently eager, to become involved with women who do not put you as a priority? You were invovled with a P who of course could not commit or put you as a priority, and NOW you are involved with a woman who puts a guru above you. So WHERE I ASK is the Problem? It sounds to me like the problem lies with YOUR “PICKER.” You keep picking “unavailable” women and then trying to make them become available. You are seeing “progress” with this woman.

Well, what is wrong with leaving her and finding someone who puts YOU first not a guru and not themselves? What’s wrong with finding a healthy woman? Just a suggestion.


Stevyn, OxD is spot-on, and I’ll take it a step further. What’s wrong with a woman who puts HERSELF first?

You do not have the power or control to “save” this woman. You just don’t. It may not be pleasant, but it is a simple fact. And, when it comes to rescuing other human beings, it rarely ends well.

For whatever reason, this woman has some very serious personal issues that she believes the guru can fulfill. HER issues are not YOUR issues, no matter how much you want to own them.

For whatever reason, you are choosing these desperate and “lost” puppies, and I agree with OxD that your “picker” may need some adjustments. If you are desperate to “save” something, involve yourself with an animal rescue league. Animals don’t have voices or choices – they exist at the whims of their owners. People DO have voices and choices, and they either use their voices and make their choices based upon fact, or they don’t.

Personally, with regard to myself, I wouldn’t involve myself with any man or woman that is clearly demonstrating foolish and dangerous choices. I’ve got my OWN issues to sort out and I don’t have the time or inclination to sort someone else’s issues out FOR them, anymore.

Brightest blessings

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