Editor’s Note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.
Questions to ask yourself when you want to go after a sociopath
By Fred Dunsing, Attorney at Law
Fred Dunsing profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide
I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counselor. I’m a lawyer. Therefore, I’m wholly unqualified to write about sociopaths and the specifics of their mental health disorder.
I do, however, understand the definition of sociopath and generally understand what constitutes sociopathic behavior. I have seen many of these individuals during my years in practice as a family law attorney, and I can say that most of the sociopaths I have come in contact with have been within the context of fraudulent relationships. Most of these individuals have been men (although I must admit that I represent mainly women in my practice).
These individuals have been textbook cases. Men who look for recently single and/or otherwise vulnerable women that have what they need – usually money, credit, sex, or the ability to provide them with children. Generally, their whole lives are lies. Their education, military service, jobs, assets, friends, and even marital status are fabricated.
What has struck me in these cases is that these individuals often share other characteristics. They are often controlling. They are usually supreme narcissists. They have such an inflated and unrealistic view of their own intelligence and abilities that they think they are smarter than everyone else – police, lawyers, judges, and especially the women they victimize. This attitude is always their downfall.
Of the cases I have taken to trial involving these personality types, these individuals have not only always lost, but have always lost in a big way. They lose because of their utterly unjustified opinion of themselves, and of their abilities to con other people. They lose when they finally pick the wrong person who won’t just go away. Someone finally takes them “to the mat” all the way through the legal process. In the context of outright fraud or theft, that may mean the police and the local district attorney. In the context of a child custody or divorce case, that may mean taking it all the way through a civil trial.
These people are predators, but in their minds, they’ve done nothing wrong. They don’t believe a case will ever go to trial because they will outsmart or frustrate any court or lawyer and at the very least, they will convince the victim to drop the case – it’s just another con to them.
But the end of the road for these people is usually when they victimize a strong or determined person. The cases that typically are the most successful are those that involve women who were willing work countless hours to research and document the lies and the damage long before going to see a lawyer. It becomes a mission with them. And even after a lawyer explains the weaknesses of the legal system, these victims all have a common characteristic – they are not going to be victimized and they going to make sure that the sociopath never does it again to anyone else.
Now, this is often easier said than done. In most cases, it is expensive. The cost of the necessary discovery and litigation can be incredibly high. Moreover, the impact on the victim’s personal life during the period of litigation can be devastating.
In my experience, a person who is contemplating taking a sociopath “to the mat” needs to answer the following questions: 1) Do I have the financial resources to pursue this course of action? 2) Am I willing to put my family through the process? 3) What are my goals? Am I seeking some measure of justice? Am I doing this for my family? Am I doing this to teach the sociopath a lesson? Am I doing this for myself?
There is an old adage that most everyone has heard, “you can spell principle two ways – with an ”˜al’ and with an ”˜le.'” It’s OK to spell it with an “le.” You are entitled to seek justice. You are entitled to stand on your principles. You just have to understand that in our legal system, it usually costs you money (principal spelled with an “al”). You also have to understand that in some instances, judgments against sociopaths may not worth the paper they are written on – particularly if the assets taken have already been squandered and the damage has already been done. You can’t collect on judgments if you can’t find the assets to execute on.
It is, however, an entirely a different situation when the stakes are not just missing property or ruined credit, but instead are whether helpless children will be exposed to a sociopath or even worse, raised by one.
I have felt extreme shame the past year since my husband gained custody of my son. Today I feel some relief from reading the stories here and knowing I am not alone and this isn’t so unusual! Kindest Regards, Breached
I’m reminded of last year’s “to the mats” divorce between supermodel Christie Brinkley and architect Peter Cook. Remember Christie? Billy Joel’s ex, and somebody else’s ex before that. And every time it happens to Christie, she gets into the papers, the women’s magazines, and so on. She must have a great publicist!
Peter cheated on lily-white, blonde Christie with some young, working-class Latina — an unfortunate subtext of racism here in criticizing his choice. And he had a habit of visiting Internet porn sites and indulging in Webcam sex — if you can call it that. As soon as she found out, Christie kicked him out, kept him away from the kids, and filed for divorce.
Sounds like a sociopath, huh? And I’m not talking about Peter.
I always smelled it on Christie, but maybe I’m not being fair. I attract sociopaths too, so maybe she’s like me.
But something doesn’t add up in her story. In fact, it finally came out close to the end of that show trial that — in spite of her protests that she was only trying to protect her kids — she put them through this ordeal — putting their father all over the tabloids as a perv, when it should have probably been a private matter — only because Peter tried to get his hands on even part of her real estate holdings. It was her money, of course, but he claimed expertise as a “consultant” who knew his way around the real estate market. Sounds bogus? Actually, I kind of bought his story. He made her a fortune.
Or is he just so good at this that he had me fooled?
He was interviewed on 20/20 or something, I think by Barbara Walters — and he said they had stopped having sex but still had a “perfect marriage” in other ways. Apparently, this wasn’t a problem for her. He loved his wife, his kids, his life — but he had one little need that wasn’t being met.
When Christie threatened him with exposure, Peter went “to the mats.” And he stayed there, admitting his “illness.” Would a sociopath do that?
I vote for Christie as the sociopath. Never underestimate the power of a sociopath with a good publicist. And never, ever marry one.
Dear Breached, Do you have rights to see your son weekends? If not, why not? Can you afford to take your ex to court, to contest this custody agreement? I suspect he has money, and feels confident he can win again if you TRY to contest it.How old is your son? Is he of an age that you can reason with him? sadly, he may already be brainwashed. I think your best hope is to wait. Spaths really only do this to hurt us,to twist the knife, they love this. He prob will very soon lose inteest in his son, and when that happens, he’ll prob. give him to you when the novelty wears off.The minute the kid interferes with HIS life plans, thats when he’ll dump him, I suspect.Stay strong, its not over till its over! meanwhile, keep praying for your son every night.Ask God to protect his MIND and emotions, from the negative influence of your spath ex husband.Only time will tell if your son is also a spath. With my daughters, it didnt show up till puberty, and I was totally ignorant then about spaths, and so beaten down, that almost believed I was the crazy one, NOT ANY MORE! If he is a spath,{your son} not much you can do. If not, you have hope he will seek you out when he is old enough to make up his own mind.Good luck, and Much Love, Gem.XX
Mama Gem, GREAT BIG GENTLE (((((HUG))))) TO YOU! I’ve been told I give great comforting hugs. Hope you feel it.
I cried as I read what you wrote. I am sorry for the pain you went through and are going through. Very angry at the spaths for hurting you too! I can imagine writing about it brings a lot of the pain to the surface. It sure does for me. Thank you for taking that risk to share with me.
You are so right about “walking in another’s shoes”. When I would hear someone criticize another for their circumstances, I used to say “but for the grace of God, there go I”. I have to admit I question God’s grace a lot now. I also used to ask him to take my husband PLEEEEASE??? Save’em first ya know, but just take his nasty ass off the earth in a loving way. My bad.
I did another (yet another) dumb thing today. I looked them up on facebook. My daughters are so beautiful. They seem to have many “friends”. I am happy to see that, but God the longing to to really see them, know them and hold them is torturous.
I hope that one day your grandkids will seek you out to form a healthy relationship with you Gem. In the meantime I am happy for you that you found a wonderful man to share your life with.
Blessings Gem.
Dear PTSD,
Part of the problems we have is the desire to KNOW what is going on, especially in cases where it is kids we love or grandkids, etc. and we look’em up on FB or some other spot and it rips the scabs off the wounds! I know it is difficult to not have any contact or any knowledge of what your kids are doing etc. but it might be better for YOU if you didn’t (for now) keep “looking” when you know you can’t touch.
Sort of like I don’t walk through the candy aisle when I am on a diet! I don’t keep candy in the house, etc.
For years I spent almost every awake moment wondering if my P-son was being gang raped in prison, beaten up, teeth knocked out, bones broken (all that did happen) but you know I don’t WANT to know now. I know that our situations are different because you still love your kids and miss them and frankly, I feel like my cute little boy is dead, and the man in Prison is NOT him. I don’t care what happens to the man in prison, and frankly it would only be RELIEF for me if they called me and told me he was dead….I wouldn’t have to look over my shoulder the rest of my life.
ONLY YOU can decide if this “looking from afar” is better or worse for you.
There is a passage in the Bible that says “ALL things work together for GOOD to those that love the Lord.”
Sometimes we can’t SEE far enough ahead to know what GOOD is going to come out of today’s DISASTER….but down the line, we will see. And I BELIEVE.
I could give you 100 examples, but here is one. I had my DREAM JOB as director of student health services at a near by college. I loved it. NEW president of the college (and BTW I know for sure he i s a P) anyway, he cut that job down to PART TIME and I lost my benefits and insurance so had to leave my dream job and CRIED AND CRIED over it.
Fast forward, I got a job working 2 days a week (2-12 hour shifts at a hospital on the weekends) and guess what? I got to spend 5 days a week AT HOME with my beloved husband for the last year and a half of his life. Also during this time, My beloved step fatrher was diagnosed with cancer, and I was there to go to every doctor’s appointment with him and be a comfort to him as he found out his diagnosis and accepted his diagnosis. I WOULD HAVE MISSED THOSE THINGS IF MY DREAM JOB HADN’T DRIED UP! At the time the dream job went south, though, you couldn’t have convinced me that it would ever be a BLESSING that it did. BUT IT WAS.
I actually wanted (at one time) foir my P son to get out of prison and I heled my egg donor with a “parole pacakge” of letters of support for his parole etc. but I NEVER PRAYED, “DEAR GOD LET HIM OUT” because I did not know what his heart was, and I prayed only for “dear God, let whatever YOU KNOW IS BEST to happen and I will TRUST YOU that it is in the long run the best!”
Frankly after my P-son got out of prison the first time (after 2 years) I wanted him to come home and he REFUSED and I was heart broken, but I CAN NOW LOOK BACK at the murder he committed only 5 months after getting out and I can know that if he had come home, it would have been ME THAT HE KILLED. Sometimes I feel guilty for thinking that way, because if he had come home and killed me, she would still be alive.
Sometimes I feel “suvivor’s guilt” because I now he WOULD have killed anyway and he hates me, and she did the same thing to him that made him hate me—“ratted him out” to the cops.
Right now there is NOTHING you can do except pray! Buy take care of yourself, realize and accept that you did the best you could and put the rest of it into God’s hands. BE GOOD TO YOURSELF! ((((Hugs)))) and my prayers.
Oxy…you are so right. I know that isn’t your purpose….I just had another good cry and I’m exhausted again.
Your candy store analogy reminded me of one I used to describe how ridiculous it was to still miss the young buck SSSS.
It was like a 300 pound person knowing that more chocolate cake was sooo bad for them but they still craved it.
Thanks for all the examples and reminders that I need to and deserve to look after me.
I cannot imagine how hard it is for you to deal with recognizing your son has done such evil things. I did relate to worrying about how the xsbf was being treated in jail too. I still do sometimes and then I wonder is this the best thing? Won’t he just be learning more ways to con people??
Spin, spin, spin…..I know. The wheels will slow down over time.
Hugs and Peace
PTSD,
THANK you from the bottom of my heart for your gentle hug. Yes, I felt it! Now, you need one back,– here it is! I can hardly imagine your pain. Your longing to see your kids must be overwhelming. can you afford to fight this in court? How come you dont get ANY access? Even spath fathers get access to their kids, so why cant you, a loving Mum, see yours? Its beyond belief, and beyond reason.The awful thing is that meanwhile, their immature minds ar e perhaps being poisoned by the spath parent.Im a bit the same about Gods grace. Were not meant to be sent anything that we cant bear. But when does it become unbearable?
I got a promise from God 13 years ago,still hasnt happened, but Gods promises are true, yea, and Amen, so I guess we just have to wait, patiently !. A year of anguish for us, is maybe just a blink in Gods eye. But maybe He hurts with us.I also admit to looking in facebook for pics of my daughter, but it did more harm to me than good.Came back to bite me on the ass!My promise{13 yeqrs ago,} was this line,accompanied by a vision ofa tall masted ship.;
“Nail this promise to the Mast,
I WILL bring them home, at last!!”
So now, Im asking you to ask God if YOU TOO can have this ,or a better promise.I hand it to you, as I would the baton in a relay race.
When it says in the Bible,
“Knock, and the door will be opened to you,”
the REAL translation from the aramaic, is
“Knock, and KEEP ON knocking,
Search, and KEEP ON searching,
Pray, and KEEP ON praying.
Its called the future continuum verb-ie, its ongoing.So, first, ask God for a promise,then, hold God to that promise, and keep reminding Him of the promise.
Its not that God is absent minded, but that he is testing our faith in Fire.
I hope and pray that this is of SOME comfort to you!
he has promised to wipe away every tear from our eyes, and he keeps all our tears in a bottle.
“Those who go forth weeping,
Bearing precious seed,
Shall doubtless come home rejoicing,
bearing home the Sheaves!!
Love, and {HUGS}} back to you, dear Heart!!And my Love,
Gem.XXX
Dear Geminigirl,
My little Jacob just turned 11 this month. I am supposed to have him one evening during the week, every other weekend and shared on holidays. This has not happened the past year since my soon to be ex has had him. My son doesn’t want to see me any longer and acts like he hates me. A couple months ago he let his guard down and told me he missed me and what fun he had in Disneyland with me last year before he went to live with dad, then he became agitated and angry the next time I saw him. During the year before my husband got him, the Forensic Therapist and I noticed my son gained a huge amount of bulk and weight in a few months period, was becoming very aggressive and combative. He complained to her about funny tasting chocolate milk my husband would make him drink during visits. Sometimes he would become violently ill and the husband would have him in the Emergency Room, but all they could come up with is possible food poisoning. One of the things the therapist believed was that he was giving him steroids–and was going to ask the Judge to order tests for this. I had asked his Pediatrician to order the tests and–yes I got the look like I was crazy and told to feed him healthier. Problem is that I did feed my son healthy and genetically we come from tall thin body types on both sides of his family. Unfortunately he got my son before anything could be brought before a Judge. One evening after a visit with my husband my son came home and became violently aggressive. He didn’t want to do his homework or clean his room and that is when he told me he could do anything he wanted (so said his stepfather) and there was nothing I could do about it. He screamed, “fuck you,” picked up a hot pan of grease and threatened to throw it at me. I gave him 4 swats for this and that is when my husband moved in and had me charged with child abuse. The first DCFS who came to the house said it was ridiculous and refused to make it a case, but my husband had friends in DCFS through Tazewell County and had them called in and they started a case and handed my son over to him. Eventually this went up the ladder to someone who was not his friend and they dropped it saying they had no viable case for a child who was well cared for and had been spanked only twice in his life. I once swatted him when he was around 7 for scratching his cousin badly when they were fussing. so DCFS dropped it but the problem was his good buddy that he ate breakfast with is the State’s Attorney and they refused to drop it even when DCFS said NO CASE of abuse. By that time 6 months had passed and my husband had my son all to himself during this period and the State’s Attorney’s office said my son and husband were ready to testify against me in court and the state were seeking 1-3 months in jail if they won the case. during this time my husband had another Judge which was his friend, evict me from my house–gave me 10 days to get out and take nothing with me. As soon as my husband was back in the house I got a call from neighbors telling me he had a huge dumpster there and was throwing china cabinets and household items in it. He threw my furniture, pictures, family heirlooms and anything that meant something to me in the dumpster. He had also got the original Judge removed from the bench and another Judge who was his friend placed on bench and she refused to hold him in contempt of court for emptying my things in trash out of house. The Judge also refused to hold him in contempt for not paying marital debts which were in my name and he wiped my credit out. My husband is an attorney and he is a wealthy man which much political power. My son is not his biological child and I do not believe he loves my son nor has he ever loved anyone or anything but money. On it goes….
Sending you love and prayers and the hope that you too shall some day find justice and resolve in this life. Satan was a liar and murderer from the beginning and the lies and twisting are designed to murder the spirit…hold onto the truth, it is our grace in this world. Love, Breached
Wow, Breached, your X sounds like a monster. It sounds like he’s got a lot of monsters by proxy, as well. I wish I had some advice to give you, but really all I can do is say, I’m sorry this has happened to you, I’m here to listen, and I’m sending you healing thoughts and comfort.
Dear Gem,
I will take your torch with honour and write my pleas down and return to them holding God to his promises.
I too had a vision in 2001 when I finally left my X. Nothing to do with the kids–I didn’t know they were well on their way to being alienated at that point. I was on my knees praying. Something I had never done much of. I saw myself crawling through a burning bush . As soon as I was through I would crawl around it and go right through it again. Round and round. Standing off to the side watching me was my X (in a loincloth??). He was laughing at me the whole time and I remember saying Yaweh over and over.(which I didn’t even know the meaning of at the time).
I had a close relationship with a spiritual mentor at that time and she said that God was refining me and showing me just how cruel and insensitive my X was. Kinda made sense at the time. Now I don’t understand why God didn’t reveal more specifically that my children were at risk of such mental manipulation by the X.
This is one of my posts explaining some of the things I did and why it didn’t help. Within the post there is a link. On the left side of the page on that link you will see RedFlags. I went through them all but was so spun that I just didn’t get it until it was too late.
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2010/03/05/resource-perspectives-taking-the-sociopath-to-the-mat/
He would hold the phone away from his ear — not even the decency to cover the mouthpiece and call to my kids “It’s your Mother(with obvious disdain), do you want to talk to her.
Learned through another parent who’s child was visiting with my daughter at the “mat” house(they are best friends still although daughter was going to cut this friend out of her life 5 years ago when she learned the friend popped in to visit me sometitmes–I sent an email pleading with daughter not to do that because her friend loved her and she would regret it) Friend stopped popping in to see me. They learned this hardcore loyalty system from their dad. Anyways–what I learned was–X would refer to me as the bitch to my kids—in the friends presence…who knows what he would have said when she wasn’t there.
My coworker wrote a letter testify to the terror in my little boy’s(he was 9 and still living with me yet) eyes when he had to tell dad that I was going to be 15 minutes late. I just wanted to say goodbye before he was off to dad’s(matrimonial house) for the weekend. Meanwhile dad would be late countless Friday nights and somehow it was always my fault when things went screwy with the X’s schedule!!!
Ya he made life so unbearable that I left. (with the kids initially) Another part to his plot to alienate looking back. That house was the only home they had known.
My daughter was 13, next daughter 11 and son 9. He played on their sympathies because poor dad didn’t want his wife to leave and break up the family. He made sure the kids new he was anger if they had fun with me. I remember taking them to swim with dolphins and when they called dad they DIDN’T EVEN MENTION IT. However when we called my mom and sister they were very animated telling about their experience.
There were so many strange incidences and obvious manipulations. When I finally realized what all had happened I decided not to press them anymore and just sent greetings and gifts. Pretty much gave up getting them to spend time with me. After years of no thank you’s I gave that up too. (just last year) They only contacted me a few times and it was always because they wanted money I was holding in accounts for them(not much)or jewellery that dad gave me. The oldest got their money when they were 18 but I decided I keep my son’s and I also cancelled insurance policies I’ve had on them and got some money. These economic times are catching up to me.
This is just a drop in the bucket glimpse of things he did. In the end my kids began to believe all the lies about me and things that happened.
Thank you Gem. For listening, for sharing, for inquiring. I know it’s hard to understand this just as it’s hard to understand the cons of an S. Parents shocked to find this had happened because I was the one to be out and about with the kids. I sat on parent counsel. I supported the extracurricular activites. When some Mom’s learned what had happened they would pop in and share what they knew about my kids through their involvement with their kids.
Everything that happened was so convoluted.
I really have to get back on the job. I have lost so many productive hours in chaos and licking my wounds these past 10 years. I am so thankful to find LF where people get it even if they haven’t had the exact same experience.
Love and (((hugs))) Gem and to all those going through their recovery journey.