Editor’s Note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.
Questions to ask yourself when you want to go after a sociopath
By Fred Dunsing, Attorney at Law
Fred Dunsing profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide
I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counselor. I’m a lawyer. Therefore, I’m wholly unqualified to write about sociopaths and the specifics of their mental health disorder.
I do, however, understand the definition of sociopath and generally understand what constitutes sociopathic behavior. I have seen many of these individuals during my years in practice as a family law attorney, and I can say that most of the sociopaths I have come in contact with have been within the context of fraudulent relationships. Most of these individuals have been men (although I must admit that I represent mainly women in my practice).
These individuals have been textbook cases. Men who look for recently single and/or otherwise vulnerable women that have what they need – usually money, credit, sex, or the ability to provide them with children. Generally, their whole lives are lies. Their education, military service, jobs, assets, friends, and even marital status are fabricated.
What has struck me in these cases is that these individuals often share other characteristics. They are often controlling. They are usually supreme narcissists. They have such an inflated and unrealistic view of their own intelligence and abilities that they think they are smarter than everyone else – police, lawyers, judges, and especially the women they victimize. This attitude is always their downfall.
Of the cases I have taken to trial involving these personality types, these individuals have not only always lost, but have always lost in a big way. They lose because of their utterly unjustified opinion of themselves, and of their abilities to con other people. They lose when they finally pick the wrong person who won’t just go away. Someone finally takes them “to the mat” all the way through the legal process. In the context of outright fraud or theft, that may mean the police and the local district attorney. In the context of a child custody or divorce case, that may mean taking it all the way through a civil trial.
These people are predators, but in their minds, they’ve done nothing wrong. They don’t believe a case will ever go to trial because they will outsmart or frustrate any court or lawyer and at the very least, they will convince the victim to drop the case – it’s just another con to them.
But the end of the road for these people is usually when they victimize a strong or determined person. The cases that typically are the most successful are those that involve women who were willing work countless hours to research and document the lies and the damage long before going to see a lawyer. It becomes a mission with them. And even after a lawyer explains the weaknesses of the legal system, these victims all have a common characteristic – they are not going to be victimized and they going to make sure that the sociopath never does it again to anyone else.
Now, this is often easier said than done. In most cases, it is expensive. The cost of the necessary discovery and litigation can be incredibly high. Moreover, the impact on the victim’s personal life during the period of litigation can be devastating.
In my experience, a person who is contemplating taking a sociopath “to the mat” needs to answer the following questions: 1) Do I have the financial resources to pursue this course of action? 2) Am I willing to put my family through the process? 3) What are my goals? Am I seeking some measure of justice? Am I doing this for my family? Am I doing this to teach the sociopath a lesson? Am I doing this for myself?
There is an old adage that most everyone has heard, “you can spell principle two ways – with an ”˜al’ and with an ”˜le.'” It’s OK to spell it with an “le.” You are entitled to seek justice. You are entitled to stand on your principles. You just have to understand that in our legal system, it usually costs you money (principal spelled with an “al”). You also have to understand that in some instances, judgments against sociopaths may not worth the paper they are written on – particularly if the assets taken have already been squandered and the damage has already been done. You can’t collect on judgments if you can’t find the assets to execute on.
It is, however, an entirely a different situation when the stakes are not just missing property or ruined credit, but instead are whether helpless children will be exposed to a sociopath or even worse, raised by one.
I doesn’t mater….I was going to post to your premonition..but here’s the deal…he can’t hurt me if I don’t let him……he can take all he can…..but in the end…I have me! The good , the bad, and the ugly.–and I have f*d up friends….only because they have the “WTF” question in their minds too….I could get into the P first then alcohol…or is it Alcohol then P???
This is my first visit to the site. I have been a reader for many months, trying to find some comfort from reading others’ postings.
I have been through hell and back using the legal route to prove how mentally sick and twisted my daughter is while trying to gain custody of my granddaughter.
After paying thousands of dollars to both PIs and attorneys, I am still where I began last year this time. The system does not protect innocent victims of sociopaths. Near death and perhaps someone will hear the cry.
Being informed twice that my case was STRONG, getting the retainer fees, PROOF, records, witnesses, exposed lies during depositions, now back to square one. I am exhausted and extremely frustrated with the “system”. Perhaps too many lawyers are sociopaths as well…take your money with empty promises OR telling you that your case is so strong and worth pursuing.
Haven’t seen my grandchild in almost a year. Missed her second birthday, second Christmas, first words, etc., because my daughter is a sociopath.
Had records of drug rehab, abuse, evidence of continued addictions, using drugs while keeping her child, having unscrupulous friends using around my grandchild, getting pregnant several times more since my grandchild was born, not paying bills, not showing up for court dates, writing bad checks, shall I go on? Yet, I am the bad guy.
Finally, daughter marries the father of my grandchild, but she is again pregnant, claiming two different guys as the father…he doesn’t know that however He introduced her to drugs when she was 13. She is now 26. She has been offered help, enabled to the point where I stopped forever, yet her other family continues to hate me and believe every word out of her mouth. She wouldn’t have even gone to a obstetrician had I not made the appointment for her and taken her.
Haven’t seen her in over a year except for once. No cards, no calls, nothing….I only want to see my grandchild.
They use their children as tools for the evil ways. She could care less about her daughter. It’s a way for her to hold something over my head and use her daughter to get others to pay her bills.
I am the bad mother for stopping the enabling, trying to help my grandchild, facing the truth and taking active measures to save a child.
The lawyer finally gives up ….for now…..thousands of dollars later….because NOW we don’t have a strong case. hello?? What exactly has changed for the lawyer to change his mind?
I haven’t a clue.
I have decided to act as though I may never see my grandchild nor the new one to be born…again. I am moving away to start a “new” life. Am I running? I don’t know. It haunts my dreams at night. I see my grandchild in everything I do.
It is much easier to rid yourself of a man, but admitting your own flesh and blood daughter is a sociopath is as painful as it gets. I see mothers/daughters doing things together and it makes me mourn something I never really had.
Men come and go, but your child is from you. A piece of you just has a “cancer” that there is no cure for, however I am determined to survive.
I have learned that no one can really help us, particularly the legal system. It is a money making racket in my opinion. I had a strong case that suddenly went weak? Makes me think the lawyer is a sociopath as well.
All I can do is pray for the strength to move on. Hopefully one day, my grandchild will FIND ME. For now, I must survive and make the best of what is left.
My heart goes out to those in similar situations. Just remember the legal system is sociopathic and for the most part, so are lawyers. JMHO.
There was nothing I wanted more from my attorney than to feel that he “understood” the fear/shock I felt. That is a very hard thing to do until it has been experienced. My expectations of my lawyer were way too high at first, and I had to settle with lowered expectations. I would love to be a pro bono attorney for victims. That would fill me up quite well.
Silvermoon, thank you for your advise. I will look into your advise to read the Mom’s House Dad’s House Book. yet, I am most concerned about the legal ways I can prevent the monster from taking my child. I had the fight going too long and finally settled. The most important thing – my sanity was preserved by Sole custody. In exchange, I agreed to Unsupervised visitations, although I had been against them all along. At first, I really worried about my child becoming attached and traumatized. Now, I see that the attachment part is being painful and I do want to use it against the monster. I do not buy into “Kids need both parents” bs. In my case, we are all better off with the monster out of the picture. At first, I cared about taking him to the mat, exposing him, telling his GFs, now after the $$$$ and the looks / smirks of disbelief, I am too tired and too hurt to proceed. All I know is the sucker will get no slack from me.
Dear Caroline,
My heart goes out to you my dear. I can’t even imagine the pain of trying to save a child from your own flesh and blood child, the pain is unimaginable to me.
The strength you have displayed though, shows that you are a woman of strength and fortitude. You did the best you could with what you had for now. It is possible though, that even though what you think of NOW as a “loss” may indeed turn into a blessing in the future. Sometimes in my life things that have seemed at the time the “worst possible scenario” have turned out later to be the VERY thing that won the WAR.
In “WAR” (and let’s face it, this is WAR! with evil) we sometimes lose a battle, but that doesn’t mean the WAR is over or that by losing that one battle (though it may seem like many battles) later down the line it will be the thing that WINS THE ENTIRE WAR!
Your grandbaby is still very young and hopefully her memories will not be good of the neglect and abuse she is suffering now, but oone of the things about kids is that as they get bigger and start to talk and “aren’t as cute” now when they require more interaction, they will get in the way with the parent’s recreation, andn they are COSTLY in terms of money that could be used for drugs.
The courts do try to “unify families” (CHOKE!) and with her preg again it may be that in the end you can get BOTH children, not just the one. DON’T despair, I know it is difficult but keep up hope that you can rescue these children.
I fortunately don’t have any grandchildren to worry about, the only one conceived by my P-son at age 17 on a 13 yr old girl was aborted.
Right now, there isn’t anything you can do except WAIT and I know that waiting is probably the hardest job anyone could assign to us. I’m not particularly patient myself, but am learning to be patient and that patience sometimes pays off the BIGGEST dividends of everything. You and your granddaughter are in my prayers! ((((hugs)))) ps stay around here there are a great deal of supportive peopole here and some great and healing articles ijn the archives.
Dear PTSD,
Whatever our past traumas/abuses have been we CAN get past them and reform ourselves….and You are right, I think, in CLEANING house and that means getting rid of every person in your life and “friends” and “associates” who are NOT good people, anyone who is deceptive, has a twisted moral compass, who is not 100% good,caring and HONEST.
That may mean a clean sweep of all your relatives and everyone you hang out with and start making NEW AND GOOD relationships. I cleaned my rolodex out of EVERYONE that was not ARROW STRAIGHT, anyone who lies, doesn’t work, doesn’t keep their word, tries to get one over on anyone, etc. it didn’t leave me with any biological family left, and only a few friends and my adopted son, but you know, QUALITY is much better than Quanity! No more drama no more problems that can’t be fixed by changing a flat tire.
So hang in there, sweep the devils out with a wire broom and keep your house clean! ((((hugs)))) and God bless.
Caroline,
Your post makes me sad. Because I do understand some of what you are going through. I don’t have a grandchild. But I do have a child that I believe has this disorder. I am still in the acceptance stage. It isn’t as I haven’t accepted it, for the most part I believe that I have, but I DO STILL have my weak moments…When I want to scream and cry and lash out at both God and the universe…WHY my son? Why a disorder that has no cure? Why, why why???
I am sorry that you were unable to go through the “system” and get a better end result. But I have also found that the system doesn’t work well at the “other” end as well.
There really is no system in “place” for this disorder.
When my son was out of control at a young age if he was “addicted” to drugs, there were at least “places” to take him, to get help. He was not addicted to drugs. (yet)
If he had broken the law, there were a few programs to turn to for “help” with this as well. He had not broken the law. (yet)
So even if a parent does realize EARLY on that there is a HUGE problem, there is no place to get help. No INTERVENTION. You are pretty powerless and have to “watch” this progress in your child, ALONE and w/o any help from outside resources, because there are NONE.
If my son had been addicted to drugs at a young age when all these traits and behaviors started showing themselves in puberty, I am sure that I would still be very much CONVINCED that he could be helped. And I would still have alot of HOPE.
It is almost the absence of an addiction or any other VIABLE reasoning, for his traits and behaviors that has lead me to my biggest fear of all. And that there might not be any hope for him. To change…Or be cured…Or seek help. It is certainly a hard thing to accept. Totally.
I wish you the best….Or whatever the “best” is, under these circumstances, for a parent.
I used to think the best thing that we might achieve in life, was peace of mind. And I don’t believe that a parent faced with this can ever achieve absolute inner peace.
Maybe acceptance of doing the best that we can do under the circumstances is the next best thing? I’m not sure…. Still struggling with that.
Hi Getting It
I don’t know much about this sort of thing, but what I do know is to document everything in a diary or notebook, so if you do need to take it to court you have it all there in writing.
I so much appreciate the responses! In spite of all the pain we all go through, having a support system does help. WE ARE NOT ALONE.
OXDROVER, I truly thank you for your imput and insight. There may be a silver lining in all this mess, but there is EVIL on earth. We ask ourselves “WHY ME?”…perhaps it is a test of our resilence, I don’t know, but there is no worse pain other than a missing child that I can even imagine.
Luckily I have a dear son who is the opposite from his sister. He is at the age, adulthood but younger than her, who has witnessed and experienced what havoc a SP can create.
We cannot get muddled down in guilt. It is not our fault. It is a mixture of brain wiring, environment, maybe heredity, but I think if that is true, then it’s Satan at work.
There is no other justification for this madness!
Perhaps we are “blessed” in some twisted way to experience this situation in our lives. There is a lesson in everything that happens.
I do know that I tried EVERYTHING to help my daughter, from rehabs, home care, providing her needs, whatever I took, I tried it. I was the not so nice guy most of the time.
What is painful for us is GOOD for them.
She was diagnosed at almost age 18 as “being dead inside”. I knew what that meant, but couldn’t accept it in my heart. I cannot IMAGINE having no feelings other than anger. The consumate actress, she was/is. Games, lies, manipulations, all in the name of “winning”. When they are found out, you pay a very dear price. I am living that now.
You have to remove yourself completely to survive emotionally. YOU HAVE TO..there is no working it out, thinking about it, praying for a miracle. Even if they come back faking apologies, DO NOT BELIEVE IT FOR ONE SECOND.
Just be indifferent…..if you act it, maybe you will feel it some day.
WHO would EVER want to say, my child is a SP and I can NEVER have a relationship, have his/her love, nothing to share, no honesty, nothing. A BIG BLANK OF NOTHING…..it takes YEARS to accept and adjust, believe me.
People look at you funny when explaining why there is no relationship with your child. First impression is that WE MUST have done SOMETHING WRONG…..there just HAS to be another side to this weird story. Some believe we don’t LOVE our children, some believe we are exaggerating, some just stare at us with no response.
Hard to believe that a parent can feel so much against this horrible person that we gave birth to…how can we be the betrayer…….what did WE do wrong, how can WE FIX THIS….on and on and on…..
Do I love my daughter? I wish I didn’t. I love her for being a part of me. If I don’t love her than I cannot love myself. I do not LOVE anything about her though. I do not love what she is, I love that she was a part of ME. She was loved. She cannot understand what she isn’t capable of feeling, right?
I could go on, but I will let you ponder these thoughts of mine.
Just thinking aloud here.
Dear Caroline,
Your warm and loving spirit comes through in your words. Yea, people do not get it that you can “give up hope, after all he/she is your ____________” fill in the name of a relative. I have filled in the names of everyone closer to me biologically than first cousin, and frankly I don’t have much of a relationship with them.
I love the MEMORY of my little boy, but what he is TODAY is nothing I love. The man he is today is Satanic in the most real sense, and I do not love that MAN in any way, shape or form. Maybe to some that sounds harsh, or UN-Christian, but to me LOVE is an ACTION not just a “squishy” feeling. My MEMORIES of my little boy who is gone forever are wonderful and joyful, but the THOUGHTS of the MAN are FEARFUL and you can’t really “Love’ something you are AFRAID OF.