Editor’s Note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.
Questions to ask yourself when you want to go after a sociopath
By Fred Dunsing, Attorney at Law
Fred Dunsing profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide
I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counselor. I’m a lawyer. Therefore, I’m wholly unqualified to write about sociopaths and the specifics of their mental health disorder.
I do, however, understand the definition of sociopath and generally understand what constitutes sociopathic behavior. I have seen many of these individuals during my years in practice as a family law attorney, and I can say that most of the sociopaths I have come in contact with have been within the context of fraudulent relationships. Most of these individuals have been men (although I must admit that I represent mainly women in my practice).
These individuals have been textbook cases. Men who look for recently single and/or otherwise vulnerable women that have what they need – usually money, credit, sex, or the ability to provide them with children. Generally, their whole lives are lies. Their education, military service, jobs, assets, friends, and even marital status are fabricated.
What has struck me in these cases is that these individuals often share other characteristics. They are often controlling. They are usually supreme narcissists. They have such an inflated and unrealistic view of their own intelligence and abilities that they think they are smarter than everyone else – police, lawyers, judges, and especially the women they victimize. This attitude is always their downfall.
Of the cases I have taken to trial involving these personality types, these individuals have not only always lost, but have always lost in a big way. They lose because of their utterly unjustified opinion of themselves, and of their abilities to con other people. They lose when they finally pick the wrong person who won’t just go away. Someone finally takes them “to the mat” all the way through the legal process. In the context of outright fraud or theft, that may mean the police and the local district attorney. In the context of a child custody or divorce case, that may mean taking it all the way through a civil trial.
These people are predators, but in their minds, they’ve done nothing wrong. They don’t believe a case will ever go to trial because they will outsmart or frustrate any court or lawyer and at the very least, they will convince the victim to drop the case – it’s just another con to them.
But the end of the road for these people is usually when they victimize a strong or determined person. The cases that typically are the most successful are those that involve women who were willing work countless hours to research and document the lies and the damage long before going to see a lawyer. It becomes a mission with them. And even after a lawyer explains the weaknesses of the legal system, these victims all have a common characteristic – they are not going to be victimized and they going to make sure that the sociopath never does it again to anyone else.
Now, this is often easier said than done. In most cases, it is expensive. The cost of the necessary discovery and litigation can be incredibly high. Moreover, the impact on the victim’s personal life during the period of litigation can be devastating.
In my experience, a person who is contemplating taking a sociopath “to the mat” needs to answer the following questions: 1) Do I have the financial resources to pursue this course of action? 2) Am I willing to put my family through the process? 3) What are my goals? Am I seeking some measure of justice? Am I doing this for my family? Am I doing this to teach the sociopath a lesson? Am I doing this for myself?
There is an old adage that most everyone has heard, “you can spell principle two ways – with an ”˜al’ and with an ”˜le.'” It’s OK to spell it with an “le.” You are entitled to seek justice. You are entitled to stand on your principles. You just have to understand that in our legal system, it usually costs you money (principal spelled with an “al”). You also have to understand that in some instances, judgments against sociopaths may not worth the paper they are written on – particularly if the assets taken have already been squandered and the damage has already been done. You can’t collect on judgments if you can’t find the assets to execute on.
It is, however, an entirely a different situation when the stakes are not just missing property or ruined credit, but instead are whether helpless children will be exposed to a sociopath or even worse, raised by one.
Dear Caroline,
I have seldom seen a more accurate depiction of my older daughter, now 45.I have printed out your last post as it is SO like my daughter, that its chilling!You are right, very few people, except our buddies on Lovefraud “get it’ about our spath children. I first noticed something very wrong with her when she hit puberty. Ive basically had 30 plus years of hell on earth with her. She separated from her nice husband 4 years a go, and he now has full time custody of their 3 kids, aged 15, 12, and almost 9 years.As a teen, she got totally out of control,drink, sex, prob drugs, vicious language, etc. My alcoholic husband [now ex, I remarried,} started to drink again after 10 years sobriety with all the worries she brought on us. She left school, ran away from home, came back after 6 months. had a party in our absence in which the whole house was vandalised and trashed, including my Art studio. She painted over paintings of mine, ripped up valuable art books,smashe d to smithereens framed watercolours of mine,painted “F–ing B–ch! in letters a foot high in black paint over a commissioned painting I was working on of the resurrected Christ. The reason? I tore up one poster of hers, of the lead singer in Kiss,{the one with his tongue sticking out.} I have never seen hatred such as she has shown to me, despite the fact that for the last 3 years sine she left her husband, I baled her out financially to the tune of over $10,000. She has cheated me, defrauded me, lied to me constantly,used me as a cash cow,treate d me with disdain, wrecked 2 of my homes, and all this with her usual ‘entitled’ way of behaving. Ive had to go totally No Contact with her,{last June,} as I felt I was losing my mind. It wasnt till one year ago when I found LF that I started to “join the dots”. I learned about gaslighting, mirroring, projection,etc., and suddenly I realised I was NOT the crazy one after all, despite what she and her spath sister used to say about me.Putting me down, constantly sneering at me, laughing at me.. The more I did for them both, the more they seemed to despise me. I agree, I cant STAND her, I suppose I still have some love for her as my child, but I HATE everything about her, the lies, the con tricks, the gaslighting,the fraud, the crocodile tears, the manipulation, the emotional blackmail, th e fact that she only ever used to ring me to sting me for more money, to get her out of yet another financial mess of her own making.Now Ive just found out that she embezzled a huge sum of money from a company she worked for, and put it thru the books af another company she was involved with, and then into her bank account.as Oxy said, “If she could cheat, lie, and steal from he r own Mother, whats the diffirence to doing it to a business ?”She is the coldest person emotionally Ive ever met, and her former husband says the same. Im trying my best to maintain contact with him, so as to see my precious grandkids, but I have to say, he isnt much more reliable than she is, Ive seen the kids exactly twice in 18 months.I use d to feel scared of her, she has the coldest, blackest stare youve ever seen, turns me to ice.I KNOW for my own survival, mental, emotional, and financial, I cannot see her again. I know she WILL NEVER CHANGE and you are right, Im sure people dont “get” why Im not in contact with my two adult daughters.{I havent seen the other one in 17 years,-her choice, and shes never once allowed me to see her 3 kids.}My heart was broken, but now, thanks to a lovely young Iranian couple, Roya and Abbas, whom we are sponsoring, we area happy family once more. We are showered with love, hugs, kisses, and they are such fun! I look on them as a blessing from God, and my TRUE family,Thanks to them, I see what weve{MY 2nd husband and I,} been missing for 26 years, how starved we both were of any affection. People who give love BACK< dont just take, take,Take as mine used to do.Unless youve been thru it I dont think ANYONE has any idea of the pain that our adult spath kids put us thru, Oxy, TB, Witty, you, and I have ALL suffered and are STILL suffering. These creatures are barely HUMAN. Its terrible to think we gave birth to such evil creatures. I used to think evil was too strong a word, but looking back on the hell on earth these two b–tches have put me,{and my loving 2nd husband ,thru, they ARE evil. They do NOT love us, and the more we do for them, the more they seem to despise us.The truly awful thing is there is NO CURE and they NEVER CHANGE.The pain of the last few years has been worse for me, than my divorce, being beaten up ANYTHING. I know I have to stay NC for ever from her, and its still hard to do this with your flesh and blood. Even if she apologised for all th truly rotten thing s she has done, you are so right, it would mean NOTHING,less than nothing. They have no heart, no conscience, no empathy, no remorse, no compassion, no kindness, They are FAKE through and through. They are a LIE.!!! Thanks for your input, it did much to remind me I have for my own sanity, to stay NC with BOTH of them.. Love, Gem.XX
Oh ladies, what heart wrenching stories you have told!!! No matter the ages of our SPs, the pain goes on doesn’t it.
Looking back over the years, I find behaviors that my daughter had that at the time made me uneasy, suspicious, or just downright odd. Couldn’t put my finger on it…thinking she was just being difficult.
See if these situations have occurred in your past, as trivial as they may seem;
I would take my children to ride around during the Christmas holidays to view decorations. I so enjoyed this experience as a child that I wanted MY kids to see beauty in the spirit of the holiday …whether the decorations were tacky, beautiful, or simple, made no difference.
My daughter always acted as if she was doing ME a favor by sharing her time w/me. I would point out something I felt was over the top or exquisitely beautiful. She would just go…uh huh…..never really sharing in the moment.
Seeing cloud formations, rainbows, sunsets, the beauty in nature, she never noted or made a comment. She could draw and write poetry, but showed no emotions in God’s creation or in the majesty of His powers.
Both were brought up with spiritual guidance, not over the top, but just the normal childhood routines of Sunday school, Bible schools, summer camps, etc. I have NEVER heard my daughter mention God or Jesus. I have NEVER heard her quote any biblical scripture, shown interest in church life, NOTHING. My son is very spiritual yet still a young man with a keen sense of wonderment of the creation by God and the Bible.
Everything was just BLAH with her. For many years I thought she was just being a jerk to make me stop asking her to be family like. She just couldn’t pretend. Many times she told me that she didn’t consider me her mother. It was always her friends’ mothers that she’d call Mom. Again, I just thought she was being rebellious. However, over 10 years later, she still does all of the above. Everyone is her BFF……she shifts friends around..off/on…whatever her mood if at the time. She cannot be loyal to anyone for longer than a few months. She truly has no lifelong friendships. She has never dated, even though she was a real beauty. She had no interest in meeting NEW people. She lives in a rut where she is comfortable.
She wants no responsibilities, lives in a world of unrealistic expectations, shuts off when “STRESSED”. They are so stressed all of the time. This is the ploy to get you to shutup.
She told me in one of our last “conversations” that I was toxic. I had to laugh at that one! Projection at its finest hour.
It is MY fault that she is the way she is…..funny how NC has turned out. Her life is spiralling as I type, so who is to blame here?
Her BF/now husband, she never wanted to marry him nor did she want to have children. Well, guess what. She has now done all of the above. Guess she is running out of options. Marrying is like dating to her. When she is “finished” with him, she’ll make him leave. He is either like her or he’s off in the head. He loves his child but he isn’t mature enough to make up for both of them. I expect this “marriage” to be over within the year.
She couldn’t even parent properly. I saw no bonding even though she was very clever at hiding it. Others kept my grandchild more than she did. I cannot imagine how it will work out when she has two.
She would jokingly put comments on Facebook that she would sell her child on Craigslist due to not behaving, etc. Her friends would post comments ..laughing at her, joking back, not truly realizing she was more than serious. I KNEW she meant every word she typed. SCARY STUFF.
Just more rambling…..things that haunt me wishing I knew then what I remember now. Shoplifting, drugs, lies, lies, lies, truancy, late bed wetter, rebellious actions that she never outgrew, her hatred for me, over the top sexual behavior that was disgusting to me, not your “normal” actions, I could go on. Producing evidence with confrontation and her denying it was HER in photos, lying on top of lying. She even told me not too long ago that she didn’t lie as much as she used to.
I have to laugh at that one!
She now calls me by my first name. It bothers me not. She is threatening to sue me now since I tried to gain custody of my GD. They just won’t stop will they?
I want her to just go away.
Yes, Caroline, a lot of this rings true with me.Her watching me play “ring a rosie” with her 3 year old, bored, no interest to join in. her husband saying,not that long ago, as the kids laughed and played with him and me,”Its called FUN, D!”
Looking under autumn leaves for fairies, with my 3 year old grandchild, her Mother calling impatiently,”Come ON, Holly!” I realised she only saw leaves, not fairies. No sense of wonder. As a child she drew beautifully, but always copied, nothing original.One night I stayed over at her place, to let her go out with her husband. Little Holly,{around 6 then, said,”Granny, can you draw me a picture of jesus?”Of course!” I said, and drew a bearded pencil drawing of Jesus. {I was an Art teacher for 28 years, studied painting in Edinburgh, Scotland.}
Holly asked me to put the picture near her bed,”to scare away the monsters.” I used to try to tell her about jesus, but it wasnt easy, both parents declard themselves atheists.
The next morning, my daughter came to me with the icture in her hand.”Whats this”” she demanded.”Holly asked me to draw it fo her” I said.”I wonder who gave her THAT idea?” she said.A good friend of mine, when my daughter was about 12 or 13, sid,”Theres something wrong with D. Shes emotionally flat.” Of course, I was annoyed ,and denied it, but looking back, she was right.Poor Holly{now 15,} was dumped in full time long day care at 3 months. 8.30 am. to 6 pm.I was appalled, I thought she was far too young, but D thought it a great idea, she could go back to work full time.The emotional development of her child meant nothing to her.Same thing happend with the other two. Much good all that full time working was, both she and her ex,{tho they are still married, cant afford to divorce} are hopeless with money, and between them, they owe over $180,000 in debt, which doesnt appear to worry them too much. They will never own their own homes ever, they have hard time even paying rent.Her behaviour as a teenager was like your daughters, sex, drink, swearing at me, rebellion, truancy from school, running away,.She did revolting things, like putting used tampons in one of her drawers.her room was always a total tip.In one of her diaries she called me a “Turd faced C–t of a so-called Mother.” Lovely !I have neve trustd her since she defrauded me of my last $400 when she didnt even need it, I discovered later shed just had a super payout, and had more money than I had!I saw on her facebook, {which Ive now been unfriended from} she called the kids,”Bloody kids!” even tho she only has them weekends so that her ex hubby can go visit his new girlfriend.In many ways he is just as unreliable as she is, but I dont think hes a spath, he may be a narcissist.I was banned from her wedding,in 1994, even tho Id given her A$1,000 as a wedding present. She sent my ex an invitation, and his new wife, and my present husband,{who naturally didnt go!} I was devastated by this, it nearly did me in.She is heartless, cruel, without remorse or consciense.tell me, what sort of gifts did your daughter give you? Mine were always ‘freebies”, never bought for me, even wrapped in 2nd hand wrapping paper.Oh dear! I think if Id my time over I wouldnt have kids. Too much pain and heartache. ! Good luck! Love, GemXX
Dear Banana,
I would focus more on the BACK child support he owes, let’s get that CURRENT and THEN we can talk about custody changes. But, whatever your attorney advises you is most likely what I would do…I(‘m not a lawyer. ((((hugs)))))
Thanks, Fred, for the great article. Only the rich and those with emotional armor of titanium can expect to endure the P AND the legal system.
OxDrover;
RE: the felon with a gun advice, they are slick and will con people into all kinds of stuff. Mine told me we should buy his kid a gun for a gift since he’d completed a training course and wanted to go hunting.
Dear Lostlittlegirl,
Hey, that’s a good oone! Buy a gun for his KID! Yea right!
I found a loop hole in the gun laws too, they are allowed to have a muzzle loader (black powder gun) or a crossbow, which is just as deadly. Actually I have a muzzle loading REVOLVER with five 50 caliber shots in it (ball about as big as the end of your thumb) It does load through the muzzle, but believe me IT IS A GUN and it is scarry that it is LEGAL FOR THEM TO HAVE. Most of them don’t know about that loop hole, but it is there. The Trojan Horse Psychopath mentioned it in a letter to my P-son in prison which was one of the copies I forwarded to my attorney that is protesting the parole of my P-son.
Also, since I found the Trojan Horse’s profile (not complete) on the Arkansas sex offender list (the ONLY way you can find him though is to search by NAME his name and address will NOT show up on a “MAP SEARCH” so you could live next door to him and not know it. I wrote a letter to the head of the sexual offender list and told the story of this man’s record, and asked her if there was any way he could be reassessed from a “level 2” he has in Arkansas back to the LEVEL 4, HIGH RISK VIOLENCE that he had in Texas and explained to fher that the REASON I received from HER department was that “he had not done any of these crimes in ARKANSAS” was why he was a “level 2”—-and suggested that she might want to keep my letter (e mail) on file because he had VIOLATED EVERY PAROLE HE HAD EVER HAD AND BEEN REARRESTED FOR NEW CRIMES and that I expected he would do this again.
May not get any action, but who knows, it might if she reads it, and a political year is coming up, so I may start contacting the various senators and reps for informational purposes. You just never know what might prompt an official to take some action, or actually what action is available. There have been some really NASTY happenings like the man in Washington STATE who killed 4 cops had his sentence commuted by Mike Huckabee who was our governor at the time and the guy had an AWFULL RECORD. Huckabee released a bunch of folks that very QUICKLY killed others after HE RELEASED THEM—Huckabee also had/has presidential aspriations but I wouldn’t vote for him as DOG CATCHER!!!!!
I read in the NYTimes the other day that states are trying to release a higher number on parole because of the cost in keeping them in prison in times of hard budgets, but people are raising cane about it and we should because some of these that they are releasing are SEX OFFENDERS–and in my opinion, SEX OFFENDERS are ALL psychopaths, and they don’t STOP doing it. Maybe I’m wrong about that, maybe a few sex offenders quit when they get out, but I’m not convinced even one ever did unless he was DEAD when he was released.
Read Donna’s article about the 100 yr old offender who is still a danger!
oxy – good for you. i hope you are successful. it’s so important.
Yea, the article donna posted today about that murder/rape case in CA and there may be more murders/rapes as well. Makes my blood boil! NO DOUBT I will stay on the case.
Wow, this sure hit home for me. I have not posted in a very long time but wanted to comment at how right you are in how to go about taking these jerks to the mat. I did it and as you suggested, one key element of success, is doing your homework well BEFORE you start the process. Before the S knows you are on to him. Play dumb if you have to until you are able get your strategy figured out. My soon-to-be Ex is a very bright, successful and cunning person. When I figured out what was going on, I removed every shred of financial information from our house. Any and all information that pertained to our years of marriage. I called everyone I knew, who had ANY connection whatsoever, with the legal system and ask for their advice on who the best matrimonial lawyers were in my area. I managed to stash enough money away to be able to to set up consultations with 4 lawyers who specialized in my type of divorce situation as I knew it would be a very complicated matter.
Basically I got all my ducks in a row, chose my lawyer and was ready to go when it all really hit the fan with the S.
I (un-aware at the time) took advantage of his arrogance. Which is another excellent point you made. That arrogance is our striking point and the downfall of an S. He thought he was SO shrewd and crafty that he would have no problem mowing right over me. I of course was devastated initially but that galvanized me in to survival mode. No way was I going to let this B—-rd take me down! He would see me crying at night and being a mess but during the day I was doing what I had to do to ultimately WIN.
My lawyer did tell me recently that it was the planning in advance that made all the difference in the world, in how this case is settling now. And it has been a THREE year fight.
It is very hard when there is so much emotion, hurt, betrayal and destruction involved but we victims HAVE to think on our feet. These creeps bank on us caving under the emotional impact of what they do to us. There were so many times when I thought I just could not keep up the fight.
My ex’s last wife told me that her downfall was that she believed him when he told her everything was her fault. She buckled and let him take her self esteem to zero and in the end, he came out smelling like a rose and she got taken to the cleaners.
Stay strong, rely on family, friends, your wits, and take the jerks “to the mat.” It is worth the fight!
Don’t always win. I lost custody of my son–just like he said I would and my son isn’t his biological son, but there he is with custody of him.Even had it in writing from the forensic Psychiatrist that I should have FULL CUSTODY. Nothing was too daunting for him to manipulate his way around. A son that was so close to me will barely speak to me and has been so poisoned since he took him captive that he won’t even spend a full day or overnight with me. I am poured out. Four years of protracted litigation and lives wiped out and he is still giggling outside the courtroom each time we go like it is a big party. He is an attorney with much power and connections–we went through 3 judges till he got just who he wanted on the bench. Now that the damage is done we are back to the original judge who looked astounded when we walked into the courtroom. So much so that he said he was ruling on the case within the month to conclude it. It doesn’t matter what he divides up in personal property or monatary because the most precious of all has been lost–and that is my beautiful child. There are no words to describe the pain and suffering of watching what he is doing and has done to this little boy. It is too much how he openly mocks me with his power to destroy and sacrifice.