Editor’s Note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.
Questions to ask yourself when you want to go after a sociopath
By Fred Dunsing, Attorney at Law
Fred Dunsing profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide
I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counselor. I’m a lawyer. Therefore, I’m wholly unqualified to write about sociopaths and the specifics of their mental health disorder.
I do, however, understand the definition of sociopath and generally understand what constitutes sociopathic behavior. I have seen many of these individuals during my years in practice as a family law attorney, and I can say that most of the sociopaths I have come in contact with have been within the context of fraudulent relationships. Most of these individuals have been men (although I must admit that I represent mainly women in my practice).
These individuals have been textbook cases. Men who look for recently single and/or otherwise vulnerable women that have what they need – usually money, credit, sex, or the ability to provide them with children. Generally, their whole lives are lies. Their education, military service, jobs, assets, friends, and even marital status are fabricated.
What has struck me in these cases is that these individuals often share other characteristics. They are often controlling. They are usually supreme narcissists. They have such an inflated and unrealistic view of their own intelligence and abilities that they think they are smarter than everyone else – police, lawyers, judges, and especially the women they victimize. This attitude is always their downfall.
Of the cases I have taken to trial involving these personality types, these individuals have not only always lost, but have always lost in a big way. They lose because of their utterly unjustified opinion of themselves, and of their abilities to con other people. They lose when they finally pick the wrong person who won’t just go away. Someone finally takes them “to the mat” all the way through the legal process. In the context of outright fraud or theft, that may mean the police and the local district attorney. In the context of a child custody or divorce case, that may mean taking it all the way through a civil trial.
These people are predators, but in their minds, they’ve done nothing wrong. They don’t believe a case will ever go to trial because they will outsmart or frustrate any court or lawyer and at the very least, they will convince the victim to drop the case – it’s just another con to them.
But the end of the road for these people is usually when they victimize a strong or determined person. The cases that typically are the most successful are those that involve women who were willing work countless hours to research and document the lies and the damage long before going to see a lawyer. It becomes a mission with them. And even after a lawyer explains the weaknesses of the legal system, these victims all have a common characteristic – they are not going to be victimized and they going to make sure that the sociopath never does it again to anyone else.
Now, this is often easier said than done. In most cases, it is expensive. The cost of the necessary discovery and litigation can be incredibly high. Moreover, the impact on the victim’s personal life during the period of litigation can be devastating.
In my experience, a person who is contemplating taking a sociopath “to the mat” needs to answer the following questions: 1) Do I have the financial resources to pursue this course of action? 2) Am I willing to put my family through the process? 3) What are my goals? Am I seeking some measure of justice? Am I doing this for my family? Am I doing this to teach the sociopath a lesson? Am I doing this for myself?
There is an old adage that most everyone has heard, “you can spell principle two ways – with an ”˜al’ and with an ”˜le.'” It’s OK to spell it with an “le.” You are entitled to seek justice. You are entitled to stand on your principles. You just have to understand that in our legal system, it usually costs you money (principal spelled with an “al”). You also have to understand that in some instances, judgments against sociopaths may not worth the paper they are written on – particularly if the assets taken have already been squandered and the damage has already been done. You can’t collect on judgments if you can’t find the assets to execute on.
It is, however, an entirely a different situation when the stakes are not just missing property or ruined credit, but instead are whether helpless children will be exposed to a sociopath or even worse, raised by one.
My husband took his ex-wife to the mat. Let me tell you, the court system is set up for sociopaths. It was 1 1/2 yrs of pure hell. Constant journaling, meetings, hearings, therapy appts (my stepson told his therapist she was molesting him, and she still got joint custody back). We went into debt $60,000 (partly for an attorney who specializes in child abuse cases). By the end of it all, she came out victorious. No change was ordered. She even gave the kids to us on two occasions, only to take them back when we went to court to make it legal. She showed contempt for court by violating everything she agreed to. The psychologist that did our evaluations wrote that she shouldn’t even be given visitation with them unless it was supervised. The judge never got to see that. She bled us dry monetarily. I went bankrupt after that, and we are still digging ourselves out of the financial hole we went into. Basically, we’re just waiting for her to end up in jail for something. Family courts are a joke.
@Breached– I understand what you mean about the victorious grin they get in court. When she was given back joint custody, she emerged with a smile like “I just won!” instead of, “Thank God I just got my kids back.”
Sociopaths are so hard to pin down in court because they ride the line of legal/illegal so well that it ends up looking like you’re trying to bully them by bringing out all their faults. Then they talk their way out of it by saying, “I was going through a hard time,” or “I feel really bad I did that,” etc. She has a revolving door of men in her life, and the judge didn’t feel as though it was any kind of threat to the children. She denied anything that we couldn’t prove, even though she admitted it before. She twisted the truth until my husband looked as bad as she did. Even though he never spoke to his son about the molestation (as ordered by the judge), he did talk to him about lying and the truth. She DID talk to him about what he told his therapist (and his therapist said she had a really hard time getting the truth out of him after that because he had been coached not to say anything) and the judge still got onto my husband for talking to his son about lies and truth. There was no winning. Right from the beginning.
SPANKY,,
ABSOLUTELY–get your ducks in a row FIRST, don’t let them know! However, most of the victims are still trying to “save” the relationship and really don’t get their OWN ducks in a row.
I was “fighting” with my P-son, just like a divorce really, and the PRIZE wasn’t my KID it was my maternal unjit and HER MONEY. The money went with HER. so he had to convince her I was the monster, just like Breached’s psychopath convinced her young son that mommie was the bad guy, and he got the money that would have gonoe with the kid too, so he raped her twice over. Just for the FUN of it.
I wish we all could know what lwas going on and do it before they even knew we were going to do it, but unfortunately, too many times we LET THEM KNOW OUR PLANS because we are so upset, so beaten down. It is a “catch 22” I am glad you were able to prevail, but tooo many times WE WARN THEM what our plans are, or go into a threat posture and they then go intoo a SNEAKY posture and end up winning.
Breach also had the fact that her x is a crooked lawyer with connections and that hurt her as well.
Some of us “win” and some of us “loose” important things from our children to our finances, and there is nothing we can do about it but wail. All the while I was being attacked, I was still trying to save my “relationship” with my maternal unit, and with my sons….in the end, I’m better off without them. I have my life, I have A life. It’s good to hear that once in a while someone does hit them on the blind side though. Congratulations Spanky!
Kerisee04,
Oh yes, I have seen the diabolical grin too. My brother calls it his, “sin grin.” It is a creepy grin that usually indicates he is about to do something heinous or has accomplished something horrid.
Your husbands x sounds lacking in conscience to the point of evil. I don’t think it is possible to find any true justice where such people are concerned, especially in the judicial system. It seems designed to play to the most base personality by nature of the law. There is nothing merciful about the law and it appears to me that it is the truth that is attacked with vengeance while lies abound and are not questioned. I find it so repulsive that I vomit and have panic attacks before I have to attend court. I hope you are able to keep taking your stepson to a therapist. Maybe someday he will talk. As for my son, there is no hope in saving him. All doors have been slammed closed on rescuing him from the monster who captured him. My son also spoke of molestation a couple years ago and the attorneys and court shushed it. Makes me sick there is no help or hope. My son was talking to his therapist about it who was ready to go into court to testify–instead, my son was given an arcade game and began saying the therapist was drunk all the time when he went to appointments, which she was not!!! As soon as my husband secured custody the therapist was dropped immediately and she was reeling from the attack on her reputation. Through all of this I count her as a friend today, but she will never treat my son again even if she could. My son has been taught to be an accomplished liar and I feel the future holds for him much pain in life–some self inflicted and some on others. It tears my heart to see it. So much pain I am overwhelmed by it. The nightmare isn’t just waking me at night, but it has taken over my every waking moment.
OxDrover,
I hope things are moving forward in your situation. Thank you for all the words of wisdom, inspiration and guidance you give on LF. I like what you said about having a life. Perhaps it is time for me to embrace that I am alive and find a way to help others through my own experiences. I find myself too focused on my personal pain right now and helping others is always a good way to crawl out of depression and do something positive. Much Love, Breach
Dear Breached,
The only comfort I found at my lowest was Dr. Viktor Frankl’s “Man’s search for meaning”—and it did comfort me, to know that we can lose EVERYTHING and still find MEANING IN OUR LIVES! It is difficult, and even today I have “my days” when life seems pretty meaningless and futile, but I am doing my best to FIND MEANING in it.
I try not to watch too much TV world news because it is so disturbing to me, I get most of my news off NYTimes, it doesn’t seem quite so horrid if I READ it rather than see photographs that are talking and moving. I know I can’t DO anything about much of the horror I can see on the news except pray, and I can do that without having to let it ruin my life. I thank God that We are not in a situation where we have to watch our children starve to death, or be sent to the gas chambers, or like the women and children (500) recently killed in Darfur when their houses were burned and they were clubbed or hacked to death.
Our world isn’t 100% “safe” as we all know here, but at least we are not suffering for want of clean water, a roof over our heads, or enough to eat—even homeless people here can get enough to eat, but there are places where even water is not available. Don’t give up hope for your son yet, sometimes when we think that the night is the darkest, the light comes on. Your son may be in a terrible place now, but KEEP UP THAT HOPE and continue to pray! If I had a choice, I would rather my son be IN THE clutches of, than to BE a psychopath. Jaycee Dugan came home after 18 years, so sometimes there IS a “happy” ending! Keep your faith. Keep STRONG, I KNOW YOU ARE STRONG, stronger than you believe you are! You’ve been through a lot, but you must KEEP ON, Breached! (((((hugs)))) and always my prayers! You are NOT alone!
RIGHT ON! This is the most timely and inspiring post I’ve encountered here…and there have been several that have touched me personally.
I am going to the mat as I type. Yesterday was the conference. He showed up empty handed with nothing to substantiate his drug test results hadn’t been altered. His only excuse, I’m controlling! The conference officer was all over him! I barely had to say a word.
He sat there with no affect. This is about a four year old child and his mental, emotional and physical safety….his child! And he had no emotional response what so ever. Eyes glazed and uninvolved.
“I’m confused”, said the conference officer. “This seems so simple and a matter of trust. The mother’s request is reasonable. Why would you let this continue and why would you come so unprepared? This will go to a hearing now.”
No answer! In fact, he provided no answers at all. As the the conference officer pointed out when my attorney requested his stop answering his question for him. “It would be helpful if you’d allow your client to answer the questions for himself!”
“He is” she replied.
“Actually, he has yet to answer a single question”, chimed in the conference officer.
It was an interesting hour. I was pleased I had to say little. It was so clear to all sitting there, with the exception of the S and questionably his attorney.
I’m going to the mat. I will do everything I must to protect my son. My little four year old beautiful, loving, generous, and intelligent boy! He will have every chance not to grow up like the monster who I created him with!!!
Wish me luck…
Duped
Fred,
Thanks for this.
I may have to go there with my Ex because he won’t leave me alone, doesn’t want me to live in peace and be able to thrive while caring for our kids. He would rather see me fail so that he can have his new wife take over. I’m sure this has happened a thousand times to women like me. I’m glad I have now made it two years past the divorce/custody fight and am so much stronger. He prevailed the first time because of how terrified, weak, sick and run down I was. And because he had help from my attorneys.
Yes, my attorneys…I would love to tell you this story. They set me up (a vulnerable, attractive woman in the middle of escaping an abusive marriage) with one of their wealthy male clients…who happened to have lost a big custody fight and was disliked by the very same custody ‘experts’ that were involved in my case. Do you think they shared with me what this would do to me? No, they covered their butts and forced me to stay quiet, not defend myself and take a bad deal – which also gives control to my abuser, enables him to continue punishing me for leaving – out of court. They told me I had no choice but to settle out of court…wore me down until I broke, then had me sign a handwritten sheet from my attorney saying that I knew I could do better if I went to court, and they were not to blame… I had to ‘buy’ my children and give up a lot of decision making rights that should go with Primary Custody)
Those are the basics…but of course lots more went on.
So my question then is – what to do when your ATTORNEYS (two women) are also the bad guys??
It is hard to pursue malpractice because of the expense and how hard they will fight – but I’m determined. Their conduct cost me a TON of money, has me under the thumb of my abuser who continues to kick me, knowing there’s nothing I can do (while my children watch and I don’t have the right to do what I really need to do for them) AND they have done it to other women (so I know it wasn’t just me; I’m not ‘crazy’).
I want to get this in front of the court, have the story come out, have them held accountable – get financial remedy because I need it, if possible – but make it harder for people with a ‘fiduciary duty’ to neglect those coming out of abusive relationships, and also for custody ‘experts’ to have to learn to handle domestic violence appropriately, as per the DV benchbook on the GA Bar website.
My case was badly mishandled while they profited from both my case and from the man who they were able to manipulate using me. The whole experience – recovering from not only the abusive Ex, but also from being under the influence of these attorneys and the man they used to control me – also not a very healthy individual – actually classic of what we hear about here 🙁 and realizing I had been manipulated, used and abused by the very people who were supposed to be taking care of me….set me up for a long haul with PTSD.
I’m finally now getting the right treatment and calling it what it is. I WILL be fine – and WILL kick some you know what…at some point. This didn’t happen for nothing.
I think I will work on becoming a court advocate for those in my situation – abused but no visible bruises to make it easy to spot a spouse in need of protection/support. Maybe raise money through a non-profit to help with legal defense (because even though I was an exemplary mother, great citizen, I still needed to ‘defend’ myself and fight HARD to get free and be able to survive)
No stolen money or used up credit…just trying to escape abuse, protect my children and my sanity, and find a way to live a normal/healthy life. We all deserve that and I’m so happy for those of you who have pushed through your ordeals.
Fred, I’m glad to hear there are attorneys who get this issue – now I need to find more of them in GA. My Ex (classic N/S) is a big shot and I fear not having the right person to take him on.
Open to suggestions!
I apologize for the length of this – takes me a while to get around to writing – and it’s draining but worthwhile so I get a lot out at once when I do. BUT, straying from my point, is that I need to write another segment on custody evaluations and related issues. Will check and see what has been written here but if this is your point of interest or have this in the offing, please do prompt me to share…I hope no one has to go through what I went through with that, and with the same consequences.
Duped, hang in there…little people need us! Good work 🙂
I wanted to add that the book that has helped me most recently with regard to recovery from the trauma I described above – and being held hostage for 15 years – is “Trauma and Recovery” by Judith Harmon. Great stuff that I have not seen before now.
Dear ALT MOM,
WELCOME! Glad you found this place, sorry you had a reason to come here, but now that you’re here, stay around a while. Great place.
Erin B,
Wow…so wish I had been able to read that and learn from you – and we are actually much alike and I TRIED doing a good bit of what you described. Only my attorneys weren’t willing participants – they only let me think they were – and they used a wealthy attractive man to distract me from actually doing what needed to be done (their law firm was going under and they just needed to settle it and get as much cash, FAST, as possible).
So, to those of you starting this process, really question attorneys, take your time shopping around…pays to have the right one. so now you have at least a few of us here who can help in that regard.
Muldoon, don’t ever question yourself – you’ll be amazed at what it is like on the other side of this. Worth all the planning and effort. I’m glad you are the beneficiary of EB’s story, and others.