Recently, there has been some discussion on Lovefraud about the relationship between antisocial behavior and sociopathy as a disorder. It has been argued that antisocial behaviors are learned by some people and so not all people who are antisocial are sociopaths. The idea is that behavior that is learned may not reflect a person’s underlying personality, and can therefore be unlearned. Many people also believe that personality features such as low empathy indicate sociopathy more than does antisocial behavior.
The above issues are important because if pervasive antisocial behavior is reflective of a deeply rooted personality profile as opposed to “social learning” then there are many more “sociopaths” than if there are a large number of antisocials who are really nice loving people underneath all that nasty behavior.
In the past three months there also has been discussion here about sex differences in violent and antisocial tendencies. These two discussions often become one discussion because there are some who believe our society teaches males to be violent and antisocial and that again “social learning” (as opposed to personality features) accounts for sex differences in antisocial behavior.
I am teaching a university course in “The Psychology of Gender” this semester. Due to the lack of good unbiased texts for the class, I am teaching from original research papers. In that context I discovered one of the most amazing books I have ever read. That book is Sex Differences in Antisocial Behavior, by Dr. Terrie Moffitt and colleagues. Anyone who wants to understand sociopaths/psychopaths should read that book. It is well worth the $20.00 – $25.00 price.
The book is not an opinion driven textbook. It is a report of years of very thorough research — The Dunedin multidisciplinary health and development study which prospectively followed about 1500 men and women born between 4/1/1972 and 3/31/1973 in Dunedin, a provincial capital city on New Zealand’s South Island. The book covers the first 21 years of their lives. These individuals have been studied at age 32 and that data is reported in other sources. I obtained all those other sources and will share them with you.
The study collected comprehensive health data on all subjects; antisocial behavior was just one aspect of the research. They collected information every year or two by interviewing parents and teachers; and as the subjects got old enough they completed self-reports and brought friends and romantic partners in for interview. The researchers also accessed government and school records. The assessment tools used were well established valid instruments. They answered the following questions which also have implications for the etiology of antisocial behavior (ASB):
• Do males show increased ASB in all circumstances and in every antisocial activity?
• Are there sex differences in the developmental course of antisocial behavior?
• What is responsible for observed sex differences?
• Does ASB have different consequences for men and women?
In the next few weeks I will summarize and discuss their results in the context of other recent research. If we accept the 1 percent figure for PCL-R psychopathy in their population, we would expect about 15 psychopaths. Antisocial personality disorder has about a 4 percent prevalence rate so we would expect 60 sociopaths based on that figure. Keep that in mind as I go through the findings.
To give you an idea of this comprehensive study here is an outline of the assessments made:
• Teacher reports done at 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 (Rutter Child Scale)
• Self-reports were done at ages 11, 13, 15, 18, 21 (items included age appropriate antisocial and illegal acts).
• At ages 18 and 21 Study members were asked to nominate a friend or family member who knew them well to answer 4 items (problems with aggression, doing things against the law, alcohol, drug use).
Results
• The smallest sex difference was seen at age 15.
• Sex effect sizes ranged from d=.15 to d=.48 and indicated a small to moderate sex difference.
• The largest age difference in antisocial behavior was at age 21.
• Official records revealed a significant difference between males and females for every variable examined.
• Drug and alcohol use was most similar, but was still more common in males.
When they pooled the data on antisocial behavior they got results similar to those reported by psychopathy researchers including Dr. Robert Hare. These researchers say that “psychopaths” are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent and property crime in our society. In the Dunedin study most juveniles had broken the law but only a small number of juveniles were responsible for the majority of offending for both males and females. 50% of 64,062 “offenses” in 21 y/o males were reported by only 41 men (8%). 50% of the 23,613 offenses in women were reported by only 27 women (6%). The most active females were less prolific than their male counterparts.
There are several take-home messages given by the researchers:
• Males’ antisocial behavior is more often serious and is more likely to be sanctioned.
• Throughout the first two decades of life males consistently emerge as more antisocial than females with two exceptions.
• Males and females are most similar at age 15.
• Males and females are most similar in alcohol and drug use patterns.
To summarize then the Dunedin study identified a group of antisocial males and females whose pattern of antisocial behavior, beginning early in life resembles that of “psychopaths.” Most psychopathy researchers say that the disorder begins in childhood. The number of antisocial males and females identified by the researchers is very close to the number predicted, but was larger than expected. The researchers also collected personality profiles of all participants, data on intimate partner violence perpetration and data on whether subjects qualified for the diagnosis of conduct disorder. Kids with conduct disorder are considered to be “psychopaths in the making.” I will share those results with you in the next weeks.
Good morning, LearnED,
I’m starting to get a caffeine buzz on, and my eyes are staring to focus again…have a good day.
SOS–yep, that’s her!
As for the microphone “behind closed doors”—my guess is that if they’ve been together a long time, they have come to some kind of “semi-truce” and are just kind of like toddlers in that stage they call “parallel play.” They really don’t interact too much, but they kind of watch each other and each one does their own thing,, but they really do want the other child “close.”
Wow. I love the correspondance back and forth with everyone. You are all so supportive. I have been ‘dealing’ with a sociopath (I am convinced he is one), since last fall. Although I have very little association with him now (but still some), it remains to impact me daily and I am suffering from depression and anxiety still because of it. perhaps in the next day or so I will share my story….In the meantime I will read your posts and allow them to help me!
Sabine – Whenever you’re ready to share your story it will help you in ways that are so healing and enlightening.
In the meantime, yup its true “still some contact” will continue to remain to leave an impact on you daily and cause you to suffer from depression and anxiety.
Whenever you’re ready, we will sing our favorite LF song with you… NC..NC…NC!!!!! Glad you found LF… support is another lifeline toward healthier days..
Thanks for your reply – I wonder what the NC song is? No contact?! Ha ha ha! The reason I still have some contact with this ‘guy’ (not man) is because he was my Acupuncturist…and was extremely unethical to say the least. I am ina province where there is no regulation over his profession so I have been working with their ‘Society’ to help them to ‘discipline him’ (as if that’s possible). To date I have never told them that I noe recognize he is a sociopath.
So here’s a briefing of my story (certainly not as traumatic as most of yours but has pained me significantly):
I went to see this acup., Ken, and we really got along well. Too well I guess. That’s part of his game I now realize. I saw him for infertility issues & subsequent anxiety. Soooo, long story short, he seduced me in those sessions – BIG TIME. I would become extremely anxious before my appts but could never cancel – like I was addicted to him or something. If I couldn’t make it or he had to change, he would call me, email etc. and we became ‘friends’. he eventually opened up that he had fallen in love with me THE FIRST TIME WE WENT FOR COFFEE – and that he was thinking of detroying ‘both our lives’ so we could be together. He did not ask me if i fet the same but ASSUMED I did. he would tell me he loved me on the phone and I would not reply and he would say “I know you can’t say it”. before we went out for coffee that day my apts were like a courtship to him; every week another layer deeper; hugs, holding my hands, telling me ‘he could feel what I was feeling’, telling me I was the most beautiful person he ever met, we were soulmates etc. etc. he would even cry at times trying to explain how I was ‘breaking his heart’ etc. What HC professional does that?! We eventually became involved (not physicaly but still very sexually as well as emotionally). I was a wreck and he LOVED it! I was not eating, not sleeping, totally depressed…..it was the worst time of my life. When I woudl gently question his ethics he became extremely angry and would place blame on me, saying I came onto him and he was just being a friend. I was totally confuse as he was constantly contradicting himself too.
So I finally worte about him in my blog, how angry and confuded I was etc. . He had not read my blog (to my kowledge in months). Turns out he checked it several times a day so he read it and LOST IT! I apologized repaeated, tried to explain to him..but he would NOT listen and instead became very vindictive. When I tried to talk to him he threatened to ‘wreck my life’ etc. He would scream and shout and speak in this foreign creepy voice. Then he called me repeatedly one day but not to apologize, I think it was to regain control over me; but I would not call back. There’s so much more to the story but that’s a summary. I really thought this guy would be my ‘best friend’ for life. The emails, the conversations, the gifts, the promises….it killed me to lose those – but it was all part of his game.
So professionally he crossed boundaries, sexually and emotionally exploited me, threatened me etc. so I filed a complaint. But he has turned the whole story around. Thank god they believe my side, but they are rleuctatnt to do anything. I have heard that sicne then, two other clients of his are his targets: one has a new ‘special friendship’ with him and another is getting another acup. as he is creepy and makes her uncomfortable.
Sabine – WELCOME AGAIN! Thanks for sharing your story with us. What a journey you have been on. He certainly did cross many professional boundaries to say the least. And they are so good at turning the story around. Im glad you found believers and support on your side. Too often that is not always the case.
Any involvement with a Sociopath is traumatic and painful. Im sorry you were lured in… its so confusing and such a mind game. There is a wonderful woman here amongst many (men and women) who offers her valuable insight and suggestions daily, her name is Oxy – Ox Drover– her computer is on the mend but she will be back here as soon as she can…She will also have great advice for you too! In the mean time keep reading and learning all you can… its a healing place…far and above anything I could have ever imagined.
And you reminded me about that “anxious feeling” you referred to prior to the appointments – that anxious feeling you felt before each appointment, try to process that feeling now as “red flags” for you. Try to connect it with and incorporate it into your life as a stop and change direction attitude going forward.
And yes, Sabine, NC NC NC song is NO CONTACT – lol – It is hardest in the beginning but a beautiful healing thing by the end!!
Learnthelesson…
You are so right about listening to my instincts and paying attention to those red flags. My gut was SCREAMING at me constantly. The last few appts I literally could not speak with him. My heart would race and I would be completely nauseated. He would reassure me, hold me, take my hands, talk me into relaxing etc…but he was my acupuncturist!!! It’s SOOOO creepy when I look back at it all. I am JUST starting to gain back weight; the antidepressants help.
No matter how much he would reassure me that we’d ‘always be togeher in our hearts’, he’d never abandon our friendship/always be my best friend…I could never never trust him. He could send me 10 emails portraying his love for me; and it was never enough. Now I know it was never enough b/c my instincts were telling me to stay away.
I am not normally an insecure person at all; I am confident usually in every area. However, Kenton took the time to learn my few insecurities; and played on them. He would tell me in each session that I had to open up to him or he could not treat me. He would ask me about my marriage, my hopes, dreams, fears…everything. He created an atmosphere in which I was so vulnerable I was isolated from my closest confidantes. Then eventually he actually convinced me that I was in love with him too. He basically TOLD me I was! But it was never like that; more like being addicted to a very harmful drug that gave immediate wonderful feelings but then severe severe side effects. I mean, the way he could make me feel in that moment, I never dreamed of…it was like so esoteric and surreal. He is really a magician let me tell you. I STILL miss him; even though he’s practically the worst thing that ever happened to me! It’s an awful contradiction; not being able to let go…but wishing I had never met him.
Thank you for your posts and feedback. It is so helpful to know there are other out there that understand. I will look forward to Oxy’s return!
Should I still be afraid of him? He keeps trying to get me into trouble with the law but I havn’t done anything wrong. He knew my whole story about the solicitor and losing my home to him and the corrupt police and then he tried to do the same to me again. He won’t give any of my things back and I still have the police continually trying to charge me with things!
Its PTSD all over again. I live in a dive now and can’t even get enough money together for the rent let alone a meal.
Isn’t that enough for him!
Tilly:
That’s because he is setting you up. He’s using the restraining order as a shield and a sword. Since you are prohibitted from contacting him, I would take any copies of correspondence in which he tells you to come over and get your things right to the police and or district attorney’s office and ask them to intervene. Have them go with you to get your things. Do not go alone.
Also, turn his lying ass into the insurance company and tax authorities.
Matt..
I have done what you have sugessted in regards to “our” son…I have even let “our” son call him as he wants to talk to his dad..he has not called him back and he has not called about seeing him either???
END THE PAIN…
This is unfortunate for your son, and thankfully he is young enough for you to be able to say, Daddy must be really busy or just change the subject or distract him at his young age….
But this is what we were talking about…journaling..keeping records…enduring through this long enough to be able to someday show the court his “parenting” style. In essence, this is what you want.
You do nothing. Its all unfolding for you, in your favor. Its not so much what to expect from him if you do this or that…its what do you want..and its you doing and going through the legal system to get it. Our moving forward with very little concern for him or about him or his behaviours on a day to day basis.
Very hard to do, I know! But you have to for yourself and your son. The guy is non-existent until he “appears” again. You will be much further along, emeshed in a schedule and close bond with your son armed with journals and phone bills (listing calls and reasons) and listing his return calls and subject of conversations…
All you have to do is go forward with your life and decide what you what to have happen for your son …and whats in his best interest. It may or may not include his father…you have to deem whats best. Based on your maternal instinct! Hang in there